Nintendo Unconcerned By Motion-Control Competitors

The Guardian's games blog reports on comments by Nintendo discussing why it's not worried about competition from Microsoft and Sony after their recent motion-control announcements at E3. Nintendo's Reggie Fils-Aime said, "The only thing I'll say is a rhetorical question. Is it fun? If it's fun, then I tip my hat and say, 'Well done.' But what's happening sounds to me a lot like, 'Who's got the prettiest picture. Who's got high-definition. Who has the best processing power?' It sounds like technology, when the consumer wants to be entertained. Our focus is how do we take active play and make it entertainment. And that's what we're going to continue to focus on."

Comments

It's a tech demo

[QuantumG]

Oh, and obligatory:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/5/

Games, games, games.

[Max Romantschuk]

Like with any console hardware... Games are the ultimate measure of success.

If the games are good, the hardware fades away. There are great games for all three platforms. I'm happy with my Wii so far. Was a lot cheaper than the competition when I got it, and for me the family focus is a great asset. With four controllers I can have all kids entertained at the same time in something like Mario Kart Wii, and it's not like there aren't games for more mature gamers too... (Mad World, House of the Dead Overkill, Guitar Hero, I could go on.)

There is no best or worst console out there at the moment. You should really just focus on what games you want to play and get a console or consoles based on that.

Re:Games, games, games.

[Roogna]

That's of course up to perspective. I've been an avid console player my entire life, and have owned most of them (remember the Atari Lynx? yeah, that one too). But when the Dreamcast came out I waited quite awhile before buying one, about midway through it's life. Why? None of the games at launch made me care at all. Perhaps that's one of the real problems the Dreamcast had, despite the vocal, the majority of gamers just weren't finding that much to play on it.

And the PS2 kind of proves Nintendo's point doesn't it? It was where the fun ended up, so did the players. Dreamcast was indeed much better hardware, but the reality is any suggestion that it's game library was better is simply myth. It had a few gems, but that was it. Anyway, just a differing opinion :)

Re:Games, games, games.

[rxan]

It's ironic that you mentioned the DVD player. Really, it was one of the reasons that the PS2 was so successful. I remember people were buying the things for watching movies alone.

Years later, PS3 comes out with Bluray and it nearly kills Sony. They had huge losses last year. People aren't flocking to Bluray like they did with DVDs.

More interesting though is: what will happen next generation? Will there be another disc format beyond Bluray, or is it all digital from here on out? Sony has used their consoles as a means of promoting their formats (DVD, Bluray, UMD) for a couple of consoles now. Now the PSP Go goes digital. Will PS4 be digital as well?

Project natal

[MemoryDragon]

While technologically impressive I have one problem with it, missing force feedback control and no additional controllers outside of behaviors. I cannot see this thing going anywhere except for some sports (especially fitness) games without it.

The sony technology was very close to nintendo however, but there at least force feedback probably will be possible, but additional fine grained controls like nintendo has it on the wiimote also still are missing but could be added theoretically!

However Nintendo should be worried, because of the lack of HD support and their absymal performance in the games area 2008 (which slowly is changing this year).

Re:Project natal

[vux984]

Force feedback is a hack.

Not really more than 3D graphics are a hack.

It was designed to try and help immerse people in games better but within the limitation that you still had to use a controller.

Ditto for 3D graphics. Help immerse people in games better within the limitation that you still have to look at a screen.

Similiar force feedback is trying to compensate for the fact that that you can't feel anything from the game world... when a rocket explodes, when your car crashes, when your jet is starting to stall, when you take a punch, when you foul a ball... force feedback can't (and in some cases [car crash] shouldn't be entirely realistic, but it helps. I like the way Need For Speed gives you different feedback for different driving surfaces... and how you can actually feel your tires start to skip as you make a tight turn. This is genuinely useful feedback on top of the audio and visual feedback.

The whole idea of Natal is moving beyond the controller, immersing people in the game by allowing them to interact directly.

You can't really interact directly without a sense of touch.

Re:Project natal

[Xest]

May I direct you here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

To see that you can increase the level of immersion without the need for holding a controller that provides force feedback?

Force feedback and 3D graphics cater to the idea that a game world is still something displayed on a flat screen and interacted with only via the controller. As the above demo shows, there are better ways to interact with the game world than simply by playing around with a controller using your hands.

Natal will be able to perform head tracking without the physical controllers in the above demo.

But despite all that, I'm not sure why the assumption is being made that you wont be able to use the controller as well or even use custom controllers. There is little reason for example you couldn't control an FPS in the classic manner with the controller but use your body to physically duck out the way of incoming projectiles etc. using Natal or even use your feet to kick enemies. This is the sort of place where Natal comes into it's own and separates away from the Wii - whether you use the controller or not you have a much greater direct connection to the game world.

I think a lot of people misunderstand the potential that Natal actually opens up. It is not simply a direct copy of the Wii mote, whilst it can have similar applications it also has a whole range of other applications that are not possible with the Wii mote or Sony's offering and that's before you even take into account the ability for it to effectively be able to scan in real world objects on the fly.

The reality is that we wont recognise the real potential of Natal until it's actually released, but it certainly looks promising and has application far beyond any way of currently interfacing with games including the Wii mote and nunchuk.

Re:Project natal

[rbarreira]

However Nintendo should be worried, because of the lack of HD support and their absymal performance in the games area 2008 (which slowly is changing this year).

In other words, they shouldn't be worried. Most people don't understand or care about HD. I'm sure you've seen people buying huge TVs and then connecting them with composite cables to their DVD player. They're happy about it too.

Nintendo is still selling at more than 50% market share (even though total market share is not quite there yet), and they keep breaking PS2's sales records. The Wii is doing fine.

If this is about what the consumer wants...

[realcoolguy425]

Stop sitting on quality games that have been released in Japan and release them elsewhere! I'm still waiting on fatal frame for the wii, and won't be buying another Nintendo game until I can purchase that! Tecmo hasn't had a problem releasing the other 3, and the sales have not been that bad in the states/Europe. UGH, I guess I'm still jaded that they're holding onto a shiny that I want, and am willing to part with money for.

Anyway, where are the good wii games anyway? I walk through the store and look at the Wii releases, and it feels like I'm in the kids section. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I guess. There is no reason not to offer them if that's what your consumers want, but why Nintendo (not Nintendo in Japan apparently) won't you release your high quality games over here? Will it ruin your family system image that for whatever reason you're doing your best to keep? It still makes no sense, there are already other more violent games out there!

Yeah yeah, the internationalization process... Tecmo has not had an issue, like I ranted earlier with the previous 3, and they were interested in having the 4th come out! Why is Nintendo sitting on it's hands? Why is Nintendo sitting on it's hands when people are willing to give them money? Especially when they have a couple of gems just sitting in their laps! They have so few 3rd party developers making quality games [most will max out their gfx capability on the PS3 or 360, at least when it comes to the AAA class titles, and many get exclusive with a certain console, Nintendo cannot afford not to support it's few quality 3rd party developers!

There's a petition to get the game moving forward [I guess to show there is potential for sales]. I guess I should go sign up for it.... actually I forgot which one I saw first, there's at least 6 going on out there! so I won't link any specific one...

Well I guess if they don't want to compete, and earn money, eventually economics will catch up with them. The NES/Super NES will remain the period in their legacy I guess. Minus the few gems out the 64 crowd, it has really gone downhill for Nintendo. I can't think of a spectacular game since the gamecube came out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Point being I think they should be marketing everything they have, unless they realize, that they are really just shoveling garbageware for the first few years, and only plan on releasing decent games after that phase has passed [if there were the must have games, people would not bother with the junk, at least most wouldn't.]

Final warning to Nintendo: Compete or die. It's the law of economics... Unless you're GM...

Re:If this is about what the consumer wants...

[vrmlguy]

Final warning to Nintendo: Compete or die. It's the law of economics... Unless you're GM...

I think that there are plenty of indications that Nintendo competes just fine, thank you very much. Have you read http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html? It's just a true today as it was four years ago.

Re:If this is about what the consumer wants...

[MemoryDragon]

Stop sitting on quality games that have been released in Japan and release them elsewhere! I'm still waiting on fatal frame for the wii, and won't be buying another Nintendo game until I can purchase that! Tecmo hasn't had a problem releasing the other 3, and the sales have not been that bad in the states/Europe. UGH, I guess I'm still jaded that they're holding onto a shiny that I want, and am willing to part with money for.

Anyway, where are the good wii games anyway? I walk through the store and look at the Wii releases, and it feels like I'm in the kids section. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I guess. There is no reason not to offer them if that's what your consumers want, but why Nintendo (not Nintendo in Japan apparently) won't you release your high quality games over here? Will it ruin your family system image that for whatever reason you're doing your best to keep? It still makes no sense, there are already other more violent games out there!

The main issue is that there is an overpresence of kids games on the shelves while others clearly exist.
Okami, Tenchu Shadow Assassins, MadWorld, Godfather Blackhand Edition, Resi4, Metroid, Okami, Sam and Max, Strong Bad, Excite Truck, Excite Bugs, Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings, Red Steel, Disaster Day of Crisis, Endless Ocean, No More Heroes and many others I probably can dig up none of them I would call a kids game. The games are there, but if a Barby whatever game sells more all the sovelware gets the space!

Re:If this is about what the consumer wants...

[macshit]

Hardcore gaming is not their market anymore. Look at the DS and its sales. Then look at the number of sales of games considered high learning curve and games like brain age and nintendogs.

They are competing... on a diferent market. If you are like me and those "casual" type games dont amuse you then Nintendo is no longer for you.

You've got to be kidding ... the DS has like 7 billion games available, covering pretty much every imaginable genre in great depth.

Sure there are vast quantities of "brain age" and "kanji master 10" type games, but there are vast quantities of every type of game on the DS....

Re:If this is about what the consumer wants...

[KDR_11k]

From what I read the FF4 release got cancelled because Nintendo demanded some changes to the crappy control scheme and a ton of bugfixes before they'd release it in the west (e.g. the flashlight wasn't pointed with the IR system but with a weird analog stick and remote tilt control scheme) and Tecmo refused to do them. The reviews of the Japanese version were very critical of the controls and general buggyness so that seems to be a major issue.

Re:If this is about what the consumer wants...

[MemoryDragon]

Well the main problem of Adult gamer in my opinion is that it gathers only to the 15-22 age crowd, which means pointless violence and no substance!
What the industry understands as adult gamer should be labeled late teen male crowd!

Sony's offering rocks

[Anenome]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm the most excited about the motion-controls that Sony demoed. Just check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiX-26VL4bM

It's hard not to be impressed by the demonstration of what gamers have been dying to be able to do for ages now: true 1:1 positional tracking, a sword and shield in-game, PERFECT.

So, in my mind, Sony's got the lead on next gen just from that. Falling to last place has actually done some good in this case, it made Sony try.

Behind Sony I'll place Nintendo. They need to up the ante for the next gen, but we can almost guarantee they'll have at least a decent offering, of not totally cutting edge, and that's fine. Sony may once against price themselves out of the market and make a horribly complex console--time will tell, but we know Nintendo won't make that mistake.

Then there's Microsoft, with their faked Lionhead / Milo demo. The controller without a controller? It had better be perfect, or they're sunk.

Lastly, we're all still waiting for someone to show off the final kicker: Johnny Lee style head-tracking for simulated 3d: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw)

Whoever can pull that out of their hat AND positional input will capture the public's imagination. Can't wait for the next gen :)

Re:Sony's offering rocks

[rbarreira]

So, in my mind, Sony's got the lead on next gen just from that.

In reality Nintendo has already launched Wii MotionPlus, they have completed software ready to launch and 3rd parties have already launched games which use Wii MotionPlus. Now Nintendo can focus on making a control scheme for their next software, and they have tons of experience with motion controls.

Sony is just playing catch up for now.

Re:Sony's offering rocks

[Xest]

Well no, again you're making things up. It doesn't show that the demo was faked, because being faked suggests that the whole thing is essentially a non-interactive video, yet clearly the water situation where her image is shown from the camera and rendered onto the water debunks that.

All that YouTube video does is back up my point that the responses and actions are entirely scripted, but that this doesn't detract from the fact those scripted actions are occuring in response to real input.

You'd have to be an idiot to think Microsoft have produced AI capable of slaughtering the Turing test although this is effectively what the video suggests if you take it at face value. What they have done is allowed you to interact directly with the game using 3D depth perception hardware, voice recognition and gesture recognition.

It's a little misleading of Microsoft to the uninformed who would certainly take from this that Microsoft has produced some strong AI, but certainly to anyone who understands the basics of technology and can properly analyse what they've done with an understanding of the technology and how it's possible it's fairly clear that she is in fact interacting with the demo, even if the responses to her interactions are entirely pre-scripted.

Re:Sony's offering rocks

[Xest]

"So you believe that the game features a totally weird perspective that makes no sense when you stand in front of the TV?"

It's not a game, it's a tech demo, it's scripted to look good which from the camera angle they chose to record from such that they can capture the system and the person using it it does actually look good and it works.

"Actor in front of the TV doing motion, everything else is inserted in post production."

Oh including the dynamic water effect which would be pointless anyway because it's more work to make a fiddled version than it is to just use their existing Fable 2 rendering tech with Natal in the first place? Yes I can see that makes a lot of sense.

"I am not even sure why you try to argue that. I never claimed that the technology behind the demo was fake, that might very well be real or at least close to the demo. But the demo video is certainly not authentic and has been tempered with."

But you're trying to claim the whole demo is fake, which is silly really because it's almost certainly more effort to fake it than it is to simply make a scripted scene using Lionhead's existing tech. with Natal to make a scripted character respond to certain prompts.

You're using a conspiracy theory that simply makes no sense because it's just as much work to go through with your conspiracy theory than it is to just do it for real in the first place. Why exactly do you think they'd even need to fake it? When you step back and look at what they've done it's entirely unremarkable in the context of the new technology - which even you are saying you accept is real. I can go upto characters and interact with them just like that in Fable 2 and many other games using classic controllers and menu choices instead, all that they've changed is the input device and made a scripted scene to go with the technology for the demo.

It's not a real game that they're planning to release, it doesn't matter if it doesn't look right to the person using it as long as it looks good for the cameras and again as there's absolutely no logical reason why they'd need to fake it because all the technology is real and most the resources (like the scenery etc.) appear to be straight out of Fable II then why would they?

Not for cat people

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Project Natal adds a new dimension for your cat to bother you while playing games.

Re:rbarreira is an idiot

[rbarreira]

Actually invensense (the company behind the Wii sensors) has stated absolute position and orientation is possible by combining the IR with accelerometers and gyroscopes (i.e. MotionPlus):

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/08/wii-motion-sensor.ars

"This value proposition was embraced by Nintendo. We don't manufacture the [MotionPlus] accessory--there's been some confusion about that--but we offer a multi-axis MEMS gyroscope to Nintendo that, when combined with the other sensors and the sensor bar, offers a true six-axis motion controller experience."

Six axis meaning six degrees of freedom, i.e. absolute positioning and orientation.

There's a lot of information if you combine these three things together... The gyroscopes give you angles, the IR gives you the distance from the TV and the accelerometers can help to improve the accuracy of the previous measurements.

Johnny Lee is working on Natal

[Funk_dat69]

Your post is a bit funny considering that Microsoft has actually contracted Johnny Lee to work on Natal.

Check it out: http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/

Re:DUH...

[AvitarX]

I'm lazy and just reposting an earlier comment, the gist is that Wii has fairly good attach rate, and great software sales when the lower rate is multiplied by the higher install base. Also that even with the game cube Nintendo was one of the largest software publishers world wide, in spite of the low install base. The company kicks the crap out of others in the sense that is makes huge amounts of cash, and that is the job of a corporation. Oh yeah, it starts out as a DS apologist, but does use real numbers too.

I have not played a single DS game where the touch screen is a gimmick, it is almost always unused (e.g. Mario Cart DS), and alternate control method that may or may not be better (e.g. advanced wars), or a fantastic edition (e.g. tap for backup item in NSMB). The Wiimote is a different story though often it is used as a very fun gimmick.

As for attach rates:
http://vgchartz.com/aweekly.php [vgchartz.com]

This is the American charts, it has the attach-rate at about the same as the PS3 and lower than the 360, of course arguments can be made to drop the Nintendo one by 1 or 2, it is still pretty fricken high in raw numbers of sales. If you subtract out 1 from the attach-rate (for Wii Sports) you end up with 150 million to XBOX 360's 170 Million, and PS3s 70 million. This is in the most 360 heavy region (North America).

Where Nintendo really makes their money though is software. Taking out Wii-play and Wii-sports they still sell more than EA on many weeks, and without licensing fees. Nintendo dominates in total money in the industry by such a huge amount that it isn't even funny. As far as the games industry goes Nintendo is a shrewd company, that is miles ahead of the rest.

Even with the Came Cube they were a major publisher by raw numbers, this is competing against companies selling for XBOX, PS2, and Computers.

And Nintendo also stated this as a P.S.....

[gosand]

P.S. Nanny nanny boo boo we had the cool technology before you did.

Seriously, we wouldn't be even talking about the wii if it didn't have the cool technology controls. Without that, many of their games would be re-hashed old ones, or not even possible.

So it's all about entertainment - once you have the technology. And don't think that Nintendo isn't ALSO working on the technology aspect of it.

Re:Sony Only One With 1:1 Motion Controls

[hkmwbz]

So what's the pay like at Sony HQ?

Re:DUH...

[scot4875]

The entire focus of the Wii is on a technology aspect, the motion control system...

Yeah, unlike the PS3 and 360, whose proponents *never* mention their HD resolutions, processing power, or storage capacity.

--Jeremy