Slashdot Mirror


Nokia Developed Wireless Power-Harvesting Phones

Al writes "An engineer from Nokia's UK research labs says that the company is developing technology that can harvest ambient electromagnetic radiation to keep a cellphone going. The researcher says that his group is working towards a prototype that could harvest up to 50 milliwatts of power — enough to slowly recharge a phone that is switched off. He says current prototypes can harvest 3 to 5 milliwatts. It will require a wideband receiver capable of capturing signals from between 500 megahertz and 10 gigahertz — a range that encompasses many different radio communication signals. Other researchers have developed devices that can harvest more modest power from select frequencies. A team from Intel previously developed a compact sensor capable of drawing 6 microwatts from a 1.0-megawatt TV antenna 4.1 kilometers away."

35 of 246 comments (clear)

  1. Need More by yo_tuco · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wake me up when it can harvest 1.21 gigawatts

    1. Re:Need More by jd2112 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's called a lightning rod, although a clock tower and a sufficient length of cable will work in a pinch. Figuring out how to get lightning to strike a DeLorian while traveling at 88mph is left as an exercise for the reader.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  2. Crazy Idea - during his time... by SevenHands · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another great example as to how Tesla has shaped our future. Truly ahead of his time by leaps and bounds.

    1. Re:Crazy Idea - during his time... by victim · · Score: 4, Funny

      They are asking about radio, not noodles.

    2. Re:Crazy Idea - during his time... by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      No.

      Mahlon Loomis used radio for wireless transmissions in 1868. about 25 years before Tesla.

      Tesla created a circuit for doing it, but he wasn't the first and it isn't the only way.
      Cool boat, tho'.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  3. Crystal radio by davidwr · · Score: 5, Informative

    Crystal radio sets harvested enough power to drive an earphone-sized speaker.

    In some circumstances, florescent light bulbs can draw enough power from a nearby power source to light up.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Crystal radio by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They also reduce the power of the signal for everyone else further away from the transmitter, reducing the range of the signals. If deployed widespread into cellphones, this could result in a non-trivial reduction in signal range for broadcasters in the harvested frequency range.

      But if they sequester a range of frequencies specifically for wireless power usages....

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:Crystal radio by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was this guy I heard about who lived next door to an AM radio transmitter. The transmitter site was encircled by a cyclone wire fence which made a complete loop with the gates closed. Being an enterprising sort of chap he immediately saw the potential of this arrangement and went to work with power diodes and an inverter. Eventually he got found out because they weren't getting the range they expected and techs were sent in to find out why.

      As a very young geek I spent many a night tucked in bed listening to my crystal (actually geranium) radio. But I had a couple of metres of hookup wire for an antenna. This article talks about short wavelength stuff, but I still think you would need a lot of metal to collect a significant amount of power. MY cellphone charger supplies (I think) 300mA.

    3. Re:Crystal radio by sexconker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you know how incredibly inefficient a power broadcast system would be?

      Do you know the rate at which said power broadcast would drop off with regards to range?

      Simple physics.

    4. Re:Crystal radio by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I did an amateur radio course when I was 16. At one point we did a field trip to the Radio Australia transmitting station in Shepparton. They had old transmitters on display which were just like a normal valve radio, scaled up to the size of a small room. It even had an air gapped tuning gang in the middle with a steering wheel on top. Amazing stuff.

      One of their operational transmitters had a gauge showing two kilowatts of reflected power from the antenna. We asked, but the staff wouldn't let us take it home, even though they weren't using it for anything.

    5. Re:Crystal radio by frosty_tsm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sorry but that has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I've seen in a while. The lack of power efficiency of this would make a fleet of Hummers look green in comparison.

      What you suggest is deliberately sending out EM energy for these devices to pick up and recharge. The EM waves don't travel directly to phones; they travel in all directions from the tower. I don't know the exact equations, but for a cell phone a couple of miles from a tower you can count the zeros in the efficiency numbers. Tesla experimented with this idea, but found that the efficiency made it not feasible over any worthwhile distance.

      To respond to grandparent's post, there is the possibility it could result in a non-trivial reduction in signal strength. However, I'll bet our use of aluminum and steel in large quantities for buildings, roads, and bridges have a larger effect today (as one constraint is the size of the device).

    6. Re:Crystal radio by FooRat · · Score: 3, Informative

      this could result in a non-trivial reduction

      6 microwatts from a 1MW antenna - so a "mere" 166000 phones charging off just one transmitter would sink a massive 1W, or one millionth of that transmission power ... that sounds trivial to me.

    7. Re:Crystal radio by fractoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      I, for one, welcome our new Ad-Supported Wireless Power Ducks.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    8. Re:Crystal radio by fractoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're not "drawing" power from the antenna. They're just scooping up some of the power that's already being splashed around.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  4. Why not solar? by j0se_p0inter0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Harvesting" is cool and all, but what I've been wondering is why manufacturers haven't been putting solar panels in phones. Such as my Casio G-Shock watch I bought 3 years ago...it has solar panels built into the watch face and a rechargeable battery, and works fantastic. I was looking at the iPhone the other day and thinking they could probably do the same thing with the large surface area of the "face" of the phone. Seems like a logical, relatively easy addition if you ask me.

    1. Re:Why not solar? by sznupi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Where do you put your mobile phone when not in use?

      Exactly.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    2. Re:Why not solar? by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll stop putting my phone in my pocket the moment someone proves that this "possible harm" is anything more than luddite hysteria.

  5. Huh? by wsanders · · Score: 3, Informative

    Most of that power would be absorbed by some material, nearby concrete, or ground.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:Huh? by hasdikarlsam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's insane.

      What do you think they're going to do, block the entire airways between the buildings with cellphones? Most of the radiation is going to miss the phones *and* the buildings.

  6. Re:Still waiting by FlyingBishop · · Score: 3, Funny

    They all work, they just don't cure the kind of cancer you have.

    Sorry.

  7. Harvest motion energy as well by heretic108 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Shouldn't be too hard to harvest energy from changes of momentum and orientation, similar to how many mechanical watches have for years been able to wind themselves.

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
  8. College experiments by get_your_guns · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I was in college in the early 80s we built inductive loops to draw power from the local radio station. We drew enough power to light an incandescent bulb. The only problem was the radio station had remote power meters across their broadcast footprint, and we dropped their power levels significantly for the station to call the college. The funny thing was the college knew exactly what professor to call for this was done repeatedly through the semesters, and the radio station could get a pretty good reading on where the actual drop was coming from per their power readings.

    1. Re:College experiments by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is useful knowledge to have. Imagine being lost and in need of rescue. If you could create a device that siphoned sufficient power from radio signals to reduce their range, not only would you have power for a beacon but also the FCC would take care of tracking down your location so that you'd stop doing it.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:College experiments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I call BS on the phone call. I think your prof may have been pulling your legs. For one thing, 60 watts is a drop in the bucket compared to megawatt transmitters, for another, radio waves behave like light waves, there isn't a return loop or any sort of return transmission involved in radio waves.

  9. Charge it in the microwave oven by radionerd · · Score: 4, Funny

    10 seconds on high should be plenty

  10. Henrich Hertz by SuperBanana · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Another great example as to how Tesla has shaped our future. Truly ahead of his time by leaps and bounds.

    I know Tesla is a posterboy for the Slashdot community, but I think you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz. Hertz was responsible for the discovery that you could generate and detect radio waves.

    That lead to the use of radio for communications, which is why such a modern device as the article describes. Tesla envisioned pumping energy into the air via dedicated stations. I don't think he envisioned a situation where we would be pumping so much energy into the air for communications, that there would be usable power as a byproduct.

    I find it frightening, not "cool", that such a device is possible, given that my body relies on faint electrical signals.

    1. Re:Henrich Hertz by Accursed · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's more an electrochemical signal, though, not really anything to do with the energy of radio waves. It's electrical in the sense that it's charged (ions), not in the sense that there's an actual stream of electrons moving along like wires.

    2. Re:Henrich Hertz by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hertz came up with the math for (transverse) electromagnetic waves.

      Tesla was into broadcast power - which he apparently visualized as using capacitive coupling to the ionosphere at high impedance and low frequency) along with conduction in it and the ground below it as the transport medium. That's just electric fields and conduction (or longitudinal waves in the ionosphere's plasma) rather than electromagnetic waves.

      It happens that his systems would also generate electromagnetic radiation and propagate power with it. But it's apparently not the particular mechanism he had in mind. (It's also not as efficient as the one he envisioned, since EM waves radiate in all directions and falls off as inverse square, while Tesla's system would essentially pump energy into a resonant cavity and contain it between the ground and the ionosphere until it was dissipated by loads or parasitic resistances).

      Now the devices in question in TFA are designed around Hertz's EM radiation rather than Tesla's "elevated capacitance" system. But it was Tesla, not Hertz, who was the big cheerleader for broadcast power using electric and magnetic phenomena (if not precisely Hertizan waves).

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  11. Microwatts, not milliwatts by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "... if 1 Megawatt gives you 6 milliwatts..." That's off by a factor of 1,000. One megawatt gave 6 microwatts.

    The Nokia press release says they are expecting almost 10,000 times 6 microwatts, all received inside a tiny cell phone that is covered with metal.

    1. Re:Microwatts, not milliwatts by sub67 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you all forgetting that this is supposed to be wideband and pull from essentially any/all available frequencies between 500mhz and 10 ghz rather than try to rape a single source for all it's worth?

  12. Re:Question. Won't this weaken the RF signal? by TinBromide · · Score: 4, Informative

    no more so than a bunch of radios tuning in. If an antenna or chunk of metal is between you and a signal, your signal quality will be degraded. If not, you have a virtual line of sight (or LOS via reflections from the ground, buildings, etc) and can receive like normal. Its like worrying about your lawn receiving less light because your neighbor has solar panels on his roof. If the panels were between you and your lawn, it wouldn't matter if they were generating power, or just made of plywood, your lawn would be in the shade, but since they're not, your grass will be just as green. Its not like these antennas suck up the power, it won't bend the radio waves towards it like a magnetic pole would affect magnetic fields.

    --
    Is it sad that I am more likely to recognize you and your posts by your sig than your name or UID?
  13. Re:Question. Won't this weaken the RF signal? by mpoulton · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its not like these antennas suck up the power, it won't bend the radio waves towards it like a magnetic pole would affect magnetic fields.

    Well, actually they do. It's not at all significant in the grand scheme of things, but antennas do affect (reduce) the signal in the area near them. Antenna designers refer to an antenna's "aperture", the effective area in space from which it can "suck" signal. This is a very abstracted view, but is a useful analogy to understand how antennas affect electromagnetic waves passing near them. It is as if your power-sucking cell phone device creates a radio shadow a couple feet in diameter, instead of only the size of the antenna. Fortunately, the effect only extends a few wavelengths from the antenna at most (the so-called near field region) and has absolutely no impact on receivers outside that space.

    --
    I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
  14. Solar cell by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would that be cheaper to do than sticking a solar cell on the phone?

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  15. Re:didn't Tesla do this decades ago? by shadanan · · Score: 3, Informative

    Can a device like the ones we are discussing actually "pull" more power from the source if present ?

    Yes, the process uses inductive coupling and works just like a transformer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_coupling

    There are two ways to transfer energy wirelessly. Either you couple the receiver to the transmitter using the near field (inductive coupling), or you obtain the energy from the radiated energy in the far field (electromagnetic radiation). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer

  16. Geranium powered radios by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Funny
    You have to extract the dye from the geranium flowers, then use it to build a continuous dye laser which you modulate with the incoming RF signal. The beam is aimed at a very fast response bolometer which provides rectification. Just amplify the signal from a small current through the bolometer to get audio output.

    This is an easy project for a 16 year old provided mummy or daddy is a full professor of physics at Stanford.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."