Slashdot Mirror


Wii Boosts Parkinson's Treatments

mmmscience writes "Scientists are investigating the use of Wii Sports as a form of treatment for Parkinson's sufferers. After a four-week study, researchers found that rounds of tennis, bowling, and boxing improved rigidity, movement, fine motor skills, and energy levels as well as decreasing the occurrence of depression. It is thought that combining exercise with video games helps to increase levels of dopamine, a chemical that is deficient in Parkinson's. The therapy is gaining notoriety under the name Wii-hab."

122 comments

  1. ...lol by moogied · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In other news: Exercise is good for you. No matter how flimsy the method you use.

    --
    So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
    1. Re:...lol by stmok · · Score: 1

      Isn't it more cost effective to make exercise fun, rather than spend money on Wii and its accessories?
      => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iYBmAVuBns

    2. Re:...lol by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Informative

      No need to make exercise fun. Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

      The trick is getting yourself to start exercising in the first place. A sufficiently addictive game would be a good incentive. The best incentive I ever had was a girl in my neighborhood who ran at roughly the same time every day in nothing but skimpy spandex.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:...lol by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      did you ever 'catch up' to her?

      I agree though, it's all about making a good incentive. The wii happens to be an easy one, so I see nothing wrong with that. People used super nintendo and other systems prior, so this is not a new idea. It's just more involved and simpler now.

    4. Re:...lol by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Funny

      Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions.

      You mean I need to be vomiting, cumming and having explosive diarrhea to have sex? No thanks.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    5. Re:...lol by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not just the exercise.

      The great thing about today's video games are the reward schedules that make games so damn addictive. These rewards cause dopamine release, which helps offset Parkinson's.

      What I wonder is if there's a "Flowers for Algernon" type effect -- like with Levadopa, is tolerance built up quickly? Do patients doing Wii-hab for Parkinson's need to take a "Wii holiday" the same way Parkinson's patients on Levadopa need to take a drug holiday to reset their tolerance?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    6. Re:...lol by omris · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well in this study, they mention that they see significant improvements in depression symptoms and dopamine levels, which you don't see with normal exercise, and the researchers hypothesize that something about the video game component is causing this. There are actually quite a few studies finding that using the Wii is an incredibly effective form of rehab. One case report: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18689607?ordinalpos=13&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

      And all of the studies refer to it as a "low-cost gaming console". In comparison to traditional rehab, which cost just as much in equipment then add in the billing rate of a physical or occupational therapist, the Wii is dirt cheap.

    7. Re:...lol by krakelohm · · Score: 3, Funny

      To quote the horrible, horrible, Meatloaf.... "cause two out of three aint bad".

      --
      You are all a bunch of idots.
    8. Re:...lol by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a bit weird. The more beautiful I think a girl is, the less inclined I am to talk to her...Not because I'm intimidated, but because I worry that she'll open her mouth and say something moronic, and that'll spoil it.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    9. Re:...lol by MobyDisk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

      I can't debate the physiology of this, but I don't think the effect is universal. I have friends who love to lift weights, and others who love to run. I hate both: The only thing it makes me feel is tired and hungry. I've hear them wax poetically about loving "the burn" or "the runners high" and I've gone with them, and never felt it.

      However, I love to play DDR and Ultimate Frisbee. I could play any of those until my body can't take any more - and then I keep going. It is not the physical activity alone that makes it fun - it is the mental challenge. I can only assume that people are just wired-up differently.

    10. Re:...lol by oldspewey · · Score: 4, Funny

      You mean I need to be vomiting, cumming and having explosive diarrhea to have sex? No thanks.

      I'm sure there's a Japanese word for what you describe, but I'm not about to go look it up.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    11. Re:...lol by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      You mean I need to be vomiting, cumming and having explosive diarrhea to have sex? No thanks.

      You forgot bleeding. Oh, yes, the delicious bleeding.

      Was that my out-loud voice?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    12. Re:...lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not necessarily for Parkinson's patients. No matter how many times the PT shows my dad the exercises, he won't do them unless we make him. He'll play with a video game though. I need to get a Wii. I wish they had mentioned more about the specific games besides bowling and tennis. Anyone have a link to something that mentions which games are best for Wiihab?

    13. Re:...lol by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, once my heart rate gets up I feel great. I spend my whole exercise cycle thinking, "Jesus, why don't I do this 3 times a day?" Then I hit the cool-down period, and all the pain catches up, and I stagger around for an hour or so wondering if I'm going to die.

      I don't do weights though. It's only cardio that makes me feel good. And even there, I have to be moving. Riding an exercise bike is a chore. The only "stationary" cardio I can do for any period of time is jumping rope, because it's entertaining.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    14. Re:...lol by omris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't speak definitively on the physiology here, but I don't think it's really quite that subjective. People respond to intense aerobic exercise with dopamine release, the same way that people release insulin in response to glucose. Some people might have flaws in that system, but overall, this is "how it works". I believe the system is designed to make you able to keep going even when running started being unpleasant, since if you are running, it's most likely (in the long term scheme at least) because something is chasing you, or you're chasing something, and either way, you'd want to keep going even after the oxygen levels in your muscles drop enough to cause lactic acid build up and the accompanying pain. A little bit of brain chemicals will help you ignore it and catch food/avoid being food.

      The dopamine release may contribute to "loving the burn" or the "runner's high" but they aren't the sole cause. I love video games, and I also happen to like running. The runner's high I get doesn't work on a treadmill, though. I hate treadmills. Staring at a wall while running ruins the entire experience for me. But if I forced myself to do it, I still get dopamine released afterward. I just didn't enjoy it, because I was too busy thinking "wow this sucks a lot".

      I think you just don't like running. Which is fair. I doubt you don't release dopamine after aerobic exercise. You just don't notice it that much because you're thinking "wow this sucks a lot".

    15. Re:...lol by david.given · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

      Only if you're lucky.

      Some people have bodies tuned to do this. You're obviously one of them, and I envy you: you get rewarded for exercise. Other people don't. I find exercise uncomfortable, very hard work, and unutterably dull. I don't zone out, I don't get endorphins, I just have to keep working at it, and it never gets any easier --- if I train, all that happens is that I can keep going longer, which means I can prolong the agony. Some reward.

      And yes, I am doing it right. A couple of years ago I entered a 10km road race in my town, and with that deadline as an incentive I carefully trained up over a couple of months, and eventually did the race and got a decent time (about 1 hour 5 minutes, IIRC). I've still got the pot-metal medal they gave me for completing it somewhere. Did I get a feeling of accomplishment for doing this? Yes. Was it worth my time? No, not really.

      Of course, you probably won't believe me, telling me that I simply need to find the right technique, or the right sport for me, etc. The problem is that athletic types tend to have metabolisms like yours, and because you get a biochemical reward you find it very hard to empathise with people like me, who don't. While you find working out etc to be a goal in and of itself, the only way I can do it on a regular basis is by iron willpower. I'm sure that if I were to exercise hard every day for six months or so my metabolism would change gears and I'd get those mythical endorphins, but dear god, the mere thought makes me cringe...

      (BTW, I can only recall one case of an exercise related endorphin rush: I was spending New Year in Switzerland, in a hutte at the top of a 600m ascent. The first day I climbed it I felt really, really good, disturbingly so, for about 30 minutes afterward. The other 13 days of my two week holiday? I climbed that sodding mountain every day, and all I felt was tired...)

    16. Re:...lol by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No need to make exercise fun. Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

      Pheh. For some people. Generally, endorphins, the thing that actually gives you the high, doesn't get going until you're a long way into the exercise regimine and even then it usually doesn't counteract the pain and tedium of plain-ol weight lifting, running, or whatever other boring thing.

      I've done em all, regularly for years even, and well I just never saw this "no need to make exercise fun" thing. My friend who was heavily into running and marathons and such, once said when I asked him about runner's high. "That's a bunch of crap," he said, and you only feel it when you've been running for miles anyway. Which is not something Parkinson's sufferers are going to do.

      So yeah. "Exercise" by itself is boring as hell and praying for an endorphine high as payoff isn't going to work for a lot of people. Fun things that also happen to be exercise are fun. I like rock climbing. That gets me going. For others, Wii Sports or Wii Fit might be what they need.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    17. Re:...lol by omris · · Score: 1

      http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-1242-Science-News-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Wiihab-boosts-Parkinsons-treatments

      This particular study used bowling, boxing, and tennis. All part of the Wii Sports game. They did it three times a week for only a month to see these results.

    18. Re:...lol by Millennium · · Score: 4, Funny

      No need to make exercise fun. Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions.

      I call it: "The Aristocrats!"

    19. Re:...lol by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And yes, I am doing it right. A couple of years ago I entered a 10km road race in my town, and with that deadline as an incentive I carefully trained up over a couple of months, and eventually did the race and got a decent time (about 1 hour 5 minutes, IIRC). I've still got the pot-metal medal they gave me for completing it somewhere. Did I get a feeling of accomplishment for doing this? Yes. Was it worth my time? No, not really.

      I posit that there is some other form of physical exertion that would give you more of a mental/emotional positive-feedback loop, which will help push you to that physical state of endorphin-induced satori. Maybe it's marathons, maybe it's marathon orgies; for me Mountain Biking is the only all-physical sport (I am the only engine - I bike up, too, which is the tedious part) which holds my interest enough to get me into that state.

      Think of it like sex; you ran the race, that's like getting your nut. Sure, you finished, and there's a sense of achievement. But maybe if you had participated in a biathlon (my example because it involves endurance and I think it's cool; useful skills in a nuclear winter) you would have had the full experience, and actually died the little death. (As opposed to the big one, which happens to runners all the time. If you're not built to run, you should try to avoid it.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:...lol by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Exercise is like sex

      And sex is exercise.

      You can watch the girl in spandex all you want. I'll be getting my exercise helping her "cool down".

      Giggity.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    21. Re:...lol by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      No need to be defensive. Everyone is different.

      It definitely does matter how crazy you are in the long term, however. I ran competitively for 7 years, and topped 15 miles a day for 3 of those years. Doesn't take much to to make me feel good when I'm running (and I have wicked knee problems now, so I'm not in any kind of great shape).

      Still it's always going to be work. Due to my knee issues, I need a lot of warm up and cool down, and I tend to feel like crap in the mornings, or whenever it rains.

      It definitely helps to enjoy it. I still love to run and cycle.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    22. Re:...lol by xenolion · · Score: 3, Funny

      been there done that, just mute them in your head it makes life better.

    23. Re:...lol by somersault · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I mostly think of RPGs as a pointless waste of time (apart from the community aspect), because of the grinding often required to get anywhere. The weird thing is though, that when I do play those types of games I still find it easy to get addicted. Combining RPG gameplay with an exercise plan would be an easy way to make it feel more worthwhile.

      In the same way, I taught myself to play drums as my friends and I wanted to start a band but we were all guitarists. Once the band fell apart I hardly ever played even though I had acquired an electronic kit to practice on. Then I bought Rock Band and suddenly I was getting graded on how well I played and had the challenge of 'beating' songs instead of just playing them. I have seriously become a much better drummer just through playing a lot of Rock Band, it helped a lot with limb separation. Playing in a band is great fun too, but it wouldn't have taught me how to play new rhythms or rewarded me as much for keeping perfect time, I think there are some great possibilities for learning via computer games, whether that's learning physical skills or more academic ones.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    24. Re:...lol by Maximus633 · · Score: 1

      What if I am in rehab for being addicted to video games? Guess this won't help me much... :-(

    25. Re:...lol by ZFox · · Score: 1

      I think you're doing it wrong.

    26. Re:...lol by sorak · · Score: 1

      Oh....The Jessica Simpson effect?

    27. Re:...lol by sorak · · Score: 1

      It's not just the exercise. The great thing about today's video games are the reward schedules that make games so damn addictive. These rewards cause dopamine release, which helps offset Parkinson's. What I wonder is if there's a "Flowers for Algernon" type effect -- like with Levadopa, is tolerance built up quickly? Do patients doing Wii-hab for Parkinson's need to take a "Wii holiday" the same way Parkinson's patients on Levadopa need to take a drug holiday to reset their tolerance?

      Or would it be reasonable for doctors to measure dopamine produced and tell their patients when it's time to buy a new game? "This test suggests you might be getting bored with wii sports. Maybe you should try switching to Punch Out!"

    28. Re:...lol by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wii Fit includes a 12-step program, and from all the reports I've been hearing, people have been saying that they feel significantly more full of life after going through the program. I might be getting it confused with something else, but I think the steps you go through are Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start.

      Well, that's just 11 steps, but I know it's something like that...

    29. Re:...lol by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't it more cost effective to make exercise fun, rather than spend money on Wii and its accessories?

      At ~$340 wouldn't a Wii and accessories be cheaper than most dedicated exercise machines? Not to mention probably take up less space when you consider that you can dual purpose the TVs and use the Wiis for other games or just put them away.

      In any case, 'making exercise fun' might be more expensive than you think. Sure, a class type workout with an instructor can be interesting and effective, but you have to pay the instructor. That gets expensive quick, even if you have a couple dozen in the class.

      Running on a track - boring & painful. Music player of whatever stripe is of limited effectiveness for me.
      Running on a treadmill - even more boring.
      Running on a treadmill with a TV hooked up - better, especially depending on the program. Still limited.

      Using a Wii? Interactive! Real feedback would make it much better. Easier access to exercise tracking can help make sure it remains interesting, tracking stats over time to provide better feedback, etc...

      And with Parkinson's, it's likely that they'd need a physical therapist to design a workout - due to varying abilities it might be difficult to place them in a mass class.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    30. Re:...lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use weightlifting as a game. Trying to get those numbers up is very addicting, especially once you accept that you can't level up as quickly as you did at first.

    31. Re:...lol by NotWithABang · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, I don't think that makes you weird, I'm in the same boat.

      When I was younger I spent more than my fair share of time with "the hotties" (yes yes, i know, slashdotters don't get hot girls, he's lying, etc etc) and I really started to detest them. From their lack of original or relevant thought to their pointless conversation-killing automated responses to their reflex-like "look-cute" maneuver any time they wanted to escape accountability (which, incidentally, was ALWAYS), I just couldn't stand it anymore.

      I think it has something to do with the adolescent development process where those of us who are average or less are forced to develop social skills and be interesting or otherwise risk alienating everyone. On the other hand, no matter how vacant an attractive girl is, she's always being sniffed by throngs of horny males and thus, being never left alone, is never forced to develop the social skills the rest of us develop until much later in life.

      To this day, "average" is all I find attractive. Sure, the pretty ones are nice to look at on tv but just the thought of the headache I'll get being with them again in real life honestly makes my head throb... errr... the one i think with... ... that has hair... on top!

      --

      ... I must be new here.
    32. Re:...lol by geekoid · · Score: 1

      It's not flimsy, its a way to make it enjoyable and it motivates people to exercise more.

      That's the key. How you burn the calories is secondary to actually doing it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    33. Re:...lol by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, many people find regular exercise to be a pain in the ass.
      Even the exercise king himself, Jacques Lalanne, talks about what a pain in the ass exercise is, but he does it anyways.

      "The trick is getting yourself to start exercising in the first place"
      Yep.

      "The best incentive I ever had was a girl in my neighborhood who ran at roughly the same time every day in nothing but skimpy spandex."
      You can stay at home, find that on the internet and then burn a few wrist calories .

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    34. Re:...lol by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "The more beautiful I think a girl is, the less inclined I am to talk to her."

      That actually happens a lot. In fact, once a learned that, I made a point of talking to the most beautiful women in a room.
      I scored a lot more often with the super hot chick then with an 'average' looking woman.

      When I was looking to score, I couldn't care less if she said something stupid. Just as long as we were clear it was just a brief encounter.

      Read Feynman's stuff on this, he had it right.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    35. Re:...lol by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, it's like having sex for an hour, nonstop.

      At that point, it's not fun.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    36. Re:...lol by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Hard to say in this instance, but in every other example I can think of, exercise continues to provide the same health benefits aven after time.

      So a 30 minute walk everyday gives you pretty much the same benefit even after years.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    37. Re:...lol by omris · · Score: 1

      I believe you may have forgotten the SELECT just before the START? That puts you at 12.

      Right on.

    38. Re:...lol by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Heh, good catch. I actually had it in there, but then figured it sounded a bit funnier if I had a follow up comment of some sort, and couldn't think of anything else that was decent.

    39. Re:...lol by rpillala · · Score: 1

      I haven't had this experience. Maybe it's because I'm not in very good shape to begin with. When I finally get myself to do some sustained exercise, my body complains and I'm not inclined to go back any time soon.

      I find that I have to be angry to really want to expend the energy to do like an hour or two of working out.

      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
    40. Re:...lol by jackchance · · Score: 1

      You mean I need to be vomiting, cumming and having explosive diarrhea to have sex? No thanks.

      I'm sure there's a Japanese word for what you describe, but I'm not about to go look it up.

      Smart thinking.

      Especially since you might invoke rule 34 of the internet.

      --
      1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765
    41. Re:...lol by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Two tubgirls one cup?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    42. Re:...lol by Dr.+Ben+MCG · · Score: 1

      Well in this study, they mention that they see significant improvements in depression symptoms and dopamine levels, which you don't see with normal exercise, and the researchers hypothesize that something about the video game component is causing this. There are actually quite a few studies finding that using the Wii is an incredibly effective form of rehab. One case report: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18689607?ordinalpos=13&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

      And all of the studies refer to it as a "low-cost gaming console". In comparison to traditional rehab, which cost just as much in equipment then add in the billing rate of a physical or occupational therapist, the Wii is dirt cheap.

      Hello Omris You are correct...I was working with a TBI client and transitioned the WIi to PD...I now lecture on the use of video games nationally and internationally if you consider Canada international...the future of rehab is there and while it will not replace the theripist...it can be a valuable tool in assisting the healthy, injured , and Ill in gaining function, self worth, and motivation...I am the researcher of this project and the fact that it decreased depression and increased quality of life is huge...thank you for the support... Dr. Ben Herz MCG OT

  2. wii-hab? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't that just a LITTLE wii-tarded?

  3. Is it Wii week here on Slashdot? by ergo98 · · Score: 1

    There have been a startling number of stories directly or peripherally about the Wii.

  4. Video games are good! by werfu · · Score: 1

    Finaly video games prove they can have some good too (nothing to prove to me or any geek, just my grand-parents :P)

  5. Preventitive Medicine? by Bryan+Gividen · · Score: 1

    I am very interested to see whether or not use of the Wii could result in either preventing Parkinson's or delaying it significantly. Obviously there isn't any data available at this point on such theory, but I think 20 to 30 years down the road it would be interesting to see what happens to people who regularly used Wii and future Wii-like consoles.

    Of course, since IIANDoctor, I have no idea on the science behind that. Anyone know whether or not that's feasible?

    1. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by BunnyClaws · · Score: 1

      I don't believe Parkinson's is related to a lack of exercise or a lack of anything that the Wii would provide. From what I understand they usually don't even know what causes the disease in the first place.

      --
      "Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."
    2. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by cecille · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They don't know what causes it exactly, but most research indicates it is caused by problems with the dopamine system. In a particularly unfortunate incident, some bad "designer heroin" got loose and caused users to develop what appeared to be incredibly fast-onset late stage Parkinson's. Nasty bit of business, but a boon for researchers. More info here. Sad case, but interesting.

      http://classes.uleth.ca/200901/chem2600a/Designer%20Drugs%20PPT.pdf

      --
      ...no two people are not on fire.
    3. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by BunnyClaws · · Score: 1

      I remember something about that incident. I think there is a conspiracy theory surrounding that.

      --
      "Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."
    4. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They don't know what causes it exactly

      They do know what causes it. Death of dopaminergic neurons in a specific part of the brain, and/or inactivation of dopamine receptors on those neurons.

      The underlying causes, though, are still not completely clear. As from your link, certain chemicals can cause this.

      But it's important to note that dopaminergic receptors die off regularly, anyway (IIRC ~5% per year) but no Parkinson's symptoms are exhibited until there are very few dopaminergic receptors in that part of the brain... sure wish I could remember the name of the region.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      Nope. Using the Wii will not prevent Parkinson's disease. It's possible it could delay the symptoms slightly or at least help PD patients adapt to them but the only thing that will cure PD is something that replaces the lost dopaminergic cells in the brainstem.

    6. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by cecille · · Score: 1

      Sorry, what I meant was that they don't know what actually causes the problem with the dopamine receptors to start. The brain region is the substantia nigra (didn't remember either, but it's in the link).

      --
      ...no two people are not on fire.
    7. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      It's called the substantia nigra pars compacta (or just substantia nigra for short), which is in the tegmentum (a portion of the brainstem).

      People do not develop symptoms of Parkinson's disease until 75-80% of the dopaminergic cells in the substantia nigra are dead and gone (or at least no longer producing dopamine).

    8. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactley and it is published that 45% are depressed I believe that is is more like 60% working with the population...The research done by Koepp demonstrates that there is an increase in Dopamine from playing video games...as well as doing exercise ...that was my premise for the Wii and PD research,...I am the one who did the study...

      Dr. Ben Herz

    9. Re:Preventitive Medicine? by Dr.+Ben+MCG · · Score: 1

      Nope. Using the Wii will not prevent Parkinson's disease. It's possible it could delay the symptoms slightly or at least help PD patients adapt to them but the only thing that will cure PD is something that replaces the lost dopaminergic cells in the brainstem.

      Hello Dogmatixpsych Again an exact statement...we do not know the cause of PD nor do we have a cure...i am not an MD or biochemist so I cannot necessarily find that cure...but I can slow the process down which is mu over all intent...I am the guy who did this research...and the fact that the depression went down and quality of life went up with a few other things that is important...since the published numbers are 45% depressed in this populationa and those who work with them believe that it is more...this is good for other Diagnoses as well and I hope that it can be applied to them...thanks for your knowledge and support...Dr. Ben Herz MCG OT

  6. What about the new Wii Sports? by jshackles · · Score: 1

    This is bunk, as many people have said before... exercise is good medicine. Who wants to wager that the new "updated" version of Wii Sports, with the Motion Plus controls, will be put on a similar test and researchers will waste another couple of million dollars figuring out that moving around is good for Parkinsons.

    1. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is bunk, as many people have said before... exercise is good medicine.

      Ah yes, "This is bunk" states known Parkinson's expert and physiology sage jshackles.

      Before you call it bunk... do you know what causes Parkinson's? Do you know what neurotransmitter abnormality causes Parkinson's symptoms?

      Do you know what neurotransmitters are the mediators of the response we know as "feeling of accomplishment"?

      Do you know how video games stimulate that response?

      Do you know, even discounting the neurotransmitter impact, how exercise via the Wii differs from other "standard" methods of exercise, and how this might specifically be of use to Parkinson's sufferers? Do you know if using a Wii for fine motor control exercise has a higher percentage of participants actually sticking to their rehabilitation schedules than traditional methods?

      In short... you call it bunk... but it seems VERY clear to me that (1) you don't know much about the subject and (2) you didn't bother researching it at all before decrying it.

      Even if this study was bunk, your refutation of it is even worse... at least they bothered to collect data before making any kind of conclusion.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by beschra · · Score: 1

      someone mod this parent up.

      --
      It is unwise to ascribe motive
    3. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Best "Der, I'm shmarter than teh scientists" Tard Smackdown I've seen in a while.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Either that, or (more likely, IMO) worst failure to realize someone was being trolled in a while...

      Looking back, it seems that the parent to my post made a pretty good quality troll, and I fell for it -- badly.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do smart people troll?

      Serious question.

      In any event, whether he was trolling or not you smacked him down hard, and it was good.

    6. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      The best trolls are smart people, I think. They'd need to be smart to be able to regularly troll people without being detected as a troll.

      I personally find good, creative trolls amusing. It's the stupid repetitive ones that are truly annoying and add nothing to the site.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    7. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello

          I am the researcher of this subject and I thank you for the comment...I did this for a slowing of the process and increaseing quality of life...depression was a bonus...as an OT that is my job...remember that 75-80% of dopamine is depleted at the time of diagnosis and there is no known cause...at this moment

      Dr. Ben Herz

    8. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Looking back, it seems that the parent to my post made a pretty good quality troll, and I fell for it -- badly.

      Eh. Even if true I don't see how it detracts from your accomplishment of a well-formed beat-down post.

      I kinda laugh at the troll's game. For one, I don't see how rebutting "You're a blithering idiot and here's why in well-defined steps" with "Yeah, well I was being insincere!" (as distinct in this context from being sarcastic) means they won. To me it just means they admit they were being a blithering idiot on purpose. Since when has deliberate idiocy not been a kind of idiocy? And what is the ultimate victory of a troll? To get you to waste time responding to their own waste of time? "Ha, you wasted as much time as I did, so I win!" Um okay.

      If you enjoy beating down idiots (and I do), then I see the troll's game as win-win. If I'm playing baseball, and someone throws a slow pitch, and I knock it out of the park, they can gleefully gloat about how they wanted me to hit that home run all they want. Doesn't change much on my end as I see it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    9. Re:What about the new Wii Sports? by Dr.+Ben+MCG · · Score: 1

      I agree I am the researcher and I am trying to find the way to slow the process...as well as decrease the symptomotology...I have done that with this pilot study ...decrease in depression and increase in quality of life alone is huge results...but there is more to it...please feel free to ask...Red Flayer...thank you for the support if you read some of my other posts you will see the evidience as well as results which speak for themselves...My best to you... Dr. Ben Herz MCG OT

  7. Re:How is novva formed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    Heh, Smidge. Reminds me of my friend who is an obese dope addict.

    I made a cartoon of his two remaining brain cells talking back and forth inside his hollow skull. The conversation went something like this:

    Brain Cell 1: "Coke..."
    Brain Cell 2: "...CAINE!
    Brain Cell 1: "Coke..."
    Brain Cell 2: "...CAINE!

    etc.

  8. Works even better with Alzheimer's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As you can hand the patient a racket and tell them they are playing a Wii.

    Don't try this trick with boxing gloves as further brian trauma is not helpful in this population.

    Sorry, dad.

  9. Proves once again.. by sw155kn1f3 · · Score: 1

    That eye/body/hand/whatever coordination excercise is good for your general health and actually develops your brain.
    Nothing new here.

    --
    - Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
    - Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
    1. Re:Proves once again.. by Bryan+Gividen · · Score: 1

      Nothing new here, unless you have a relative who struggles with Parkinson's and you have more hope for helping the crippling symptoms subside a bit.

  10. Misleading title? by joeflies · · Score: 2, Informative

    It sounds like it is used to treat the effects of the symptoms of parkison's. It doesn't do anything to treat Parkisons itself.

    1. Re:Misleading title? by BunnyClaws · · Score: 1

      How is it misleading, is there anything that actually treats Parkinsons as opposed to just the symptoms?

      --
      "Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."
    2. Re:Misleading title? by T+Murphy · · Score: 2, Funny

      You clearly don't watch House or you would've understood it right away. I can't believe you would be so unintelligent to not watch such an amazingly realistic account of the practice of medicine! Go and redeem yourself via Hulu before you become truly lost.

    3. Re:Misleading title? by brkello · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, yes, there are things that treat Parkinson's and the summary is a bit misleading. Probably not intentionally because it is easier to chalk it up to stupidity than being maliciously misleading.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    4. Re:Misleading title? by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. Administering Levodopa (a dopamine precurser) actually "treats Parkinson's" because it replaces the dopamine that is lost in the brain. However, people build a tolerance to the drug. We don't have anything at the moment that cures Parkinson's disease, although there is promise with stem cell treatments. We don't even know what causes the loss of the substantia nigra cells (where dopamine is largely produced) in the first place.

    5. Re:Misleading title? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like it is used to treat the effects of the symptoms of parkison's. It doesn't do anything to treat Parkisons itself.

      It sounds like it is used to treat the effects of the symptoms of parkison's. It doesn't do anything to treat Parkisons itself.

      I am the researcher whos study is written about and yes you are correct...I am not an MD or Biochemist so I woill not be able to find a cure for it however, my job is to keep a person as independent as possible and slow the degenerative process...that is what I am trying to do...so while I cannot address the Disease I can slow the symptons so that the degeneration is slower and people can remain independent longer and have a better quality of life...Dr. N. B. Herz

  11. Free Wiis by Nidi62 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So, does that mean if Obama's health care package get's passed, the government will pay for video games for Parkinson's sufferers?

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Free Wiis by omris · · Score: 1

      Cheaper than any other options...

      Except maybe the Ultimate Solution. Which I'm not that keen on, personally.

    2. Re:Free Wiis by geekoid · · Score: 1

      If it has the same or better effect as drugs, then I certainly hope so, much cheaper.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  12. Watered down experience by V50 · · Score: 4, Funny

    So what this article is saying, is that the Wii provides a "watered down" Parkinson's experience.

  13. For a change.. something supporting TFA by hellfire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dr. Ben Hertz, a director of Occupational Therapy at MCG, explained that "participants showed significant improvements in rigidity, movement, fine motor skills and energy levels. Perhaps most impressively, most participants' depression levels decreased to zero." [MCG] Depression is a major impact factor in Parkinson's, with at least half of the patients reporting the mental illness.

    No neurological studies have been done to solidify the reasons behind the improvement. However, Hertz believes that the combination of exercise and video games helps boost dopamine levels, a neurotransmitter that is severely deficient in Parkinson's disease. That is the motivation behind using the Wii over another video game system; Wii requires whole-body movement instead of the simple isolated finger movements on a traditional controller.

    While we only have a correlation here and no direct link, I actually think the researchers may be onto something. The reason why this is more than old news is not the physical activity, but the emotional and mental components.

    Playing sports for real requires lifting the appropriate equipment, and learning the skill. Wii Sports is simpler, and simply requires basic motions. The remote is also much lighter and easier to handle.

    The time invested learning vs the return in enjoyment ramps up faster and if you are a depressed parkinson's patient, being able to easily do a little exercise with a simple little console can emotionally be a big deal. I do not have parkinson's, but I've tried learning tennis and it's a pain in the ass to me, but I enjoy a little wii tennis from time to time with my niece.

    And finally, playing a computer game is still novel. Most patients are going to look at something like this and it will be enjoyable. It's not some uber FPS or strategy game where they have to learn 20 combos. They swing a remote and have a little fun with their friends.

    The physical activity has always been important, but other consoles don't give you physical interaction, you mash buttons. If you are a parkinson's patient and you can feel like you are doing something, you are not only getting a physical component, but a much needed mental and emotional component.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  14. Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by Karna99 · · Score: 2

    Is there nothing the Wii can't do.

    1. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by MadKeithV · · Score: 5, Funny

      Change you can bewiive in.

    2. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything Wii can do.. I can do better!

    3. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by Chris+Burke · · Score: 0

      Nothing can prevent death or taxes.

      However, with Wii Die and Wii Audit, you can cause them! Coming soon to a retailer near you.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      Isn't it, "Anything you can do, Wii can do it better?"

    5. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Fail.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:Wii Games to soon cure Death & Taxes by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Change you can bewiive in.

      In related Wii news the Uighurs hope to translate their phenominal table tennis skills to lawn tennis. Wimbledon here Wii come.

  15. Science Breakthrough! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Scientists" have found whacking-off improves blood circulation.

  16. Why not... by anish1411 · · Score: 1

    ...smoke some dope? Of course, patients selection should be stressed, but I think this is one of the few disease where prescibed cannabis really would help. Maybe not smoke, but ingestion or something like that. And I'm sure the side-effects will be very welcome B-) Seriously though, there's some decent evidence out there for the use of cannabis for Parkinson's.

    1. Re:Why not... by omris · · Score: 1

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15477546?ordinalpos=13&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

      Short version: Pot didn't help keep the patients on the most effective meds. (which is an issue for Parkinson's... you can't just take the meds forever. They stop working)

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15111259?ordinalpos=18&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

      Short version: pot might help people with Parkinson's, and here's how. Need to test that out.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15372606?ordinalpos=15&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

      Short version: if you ask patients, 25% of them admit to using pot, and about half of those people said it helps.

      I couldn't find any trials on cannabis alone as a treatment or how it compares to Levadopa in my cursory 2 minutes search.

  17. Sorry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Parkinsons Disease + Career in IS + Kids (but no Wife) = No time for Wii

    Can't seem to fix that one.

  18. re.. by Cedric+Tsui · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have an (off topic) question for you.

    Hmmm. If you could purchase a discrete device that would release endorphins whenever you were doing exercise. Would you buy it?
    Would you voluntarily rewire yourself?

  19. Surely the point is that by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Wii does make exercise fun. I think that this is just plain cool.

    1. Re:Surely the point is that by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can attest to this fact. As someone who hadn't intentionally exercised for more than about 5 days out of the last 5 years, I just started exercising after buying a Wii Fit recently. Laugh all you want, but I've already shed a few pounds, and I figure that there's no point in arguing with results, regardless of how embarrassing it is.

  20. if i don't run for a few days by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    i begin to fantasize about it

    i'm an addict

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  21. there's nothing worse by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    than seeing a hot chick, taking in her attractiveness

    and then she brings a cigarette to her mouth

    instant killjoy

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:there's nothing worse by jhol13 · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine used to say "would you kiss an ashtray".

    2. Re:there's nothing worse by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Meh. An oral fixation is an oral fixation ;)

      The thing that turns me off more than anything else is people who walk around with an unpleasant look on their face all the time. It's like a subtle mirror of the soul. If someone, no matter how pretty otherwise, walks around 24/7 with that borderline bitchy sneer grafted to their face...Yech.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:there's nothing worse by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Wait, you avoid women with an oral fixation~

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:there's nothing worse by Kz · · Score: 1

      been there, done that. never again.

      --
      -Kz-
    5. Re:there's nothing worse by Dark_Gravity · · Score: 1

      than seeing a hot chick, taking in her attractiveness

      and then she brings a cigarette to her mouth

      instant killjoy

      Funny, I always thought of it as a promising sign.

      A woman that will put a cigarette in her mouth, will put anything in her mouth!

    6. Re:there's nothing worse by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      But two showers and an entire tub of talc later it'll still smell like a frankfurter.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:there's nothing worse by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Whooo instant me :D

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
  22. Elderly people observed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes exercise is good, a couple of months ago i fell over on some ice (i know stupid) - i now have metal pins in one leg and have since got over using crutches. Most (95%) of people in the mixed hospital ward where over 65 years old.

    I like to walk and yes i wanted to get back to using both legs. My observation about some elderly people in that short time is that pain and the motivation to say walk to the shops (think europe) /use stairs etc is not a top priority. I'm doing physio now and even how i observe that the +65 age group may not be as active, or have the mental need to push forward.

    It to does not surprise me that a wii can be used this way, but a persons motivation helps more.
     

  23. Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://xkcd.com/189/

  24. in other news... by gotem · · Score: 1

    the patients are challenging anyone to beat them at Wario Land: Shake it.

  25. Not to detract, but.... by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    There's nothing about Wii that makes it any better than any other similar exercise. We used the Apple //GS "tour" program for the same thing, back when it was brand new. We also used a computerized version of the old psych-test "trail making test" on a Mac 128, back when it was new too.

    Fact is, it's not really the exercise that does the trick, it's giving the brain a task where it can plan a trajectory of movement. You can get the same effect almost instantly by giving a Parky a cane. They don;t need it to walk, they place it out in front of themselves and walk towards it. Planning that trajectory makes execution much easier. Once the trick is learned, games and canes are not longer needed. For a while.

    Using these doesn't increase dopamine levels. What they do is give the brain reason to make more use of what little there is. It grows more receptors in response. It has the same effect of increasing dopamine. It's preferable to dopaminerigic drugs which have nasty side effects much like antipsychotics (extrapyramidal symptoms, like tardive dyskenesia). Newer drugs like pramipexole (Mirapex) don't have those side effects, but are fairly expensive. A cane is much cheaper.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:Not to detract, but.... by Dr.+Ben+MCG · · Score: 1

      hello Dynasoar There is research such as Koepp and Zyang that show there is an increase in dopamine in videogames as well as others demonstrating that with exercise...the fact that there was a decrease in depression and increase in quality of life is a big advancement...since 45% is published as having it but many of us think there is more then that...giving a person a cane continues to put them in the patient catagory as opposed to human catagory and can and will effect the self esteem and self worth...regardless of the reasoning this study demonstrates getting them out of the rut and addresses some of the symptomtology...if you are the Doctor who is in you should examine the psychology of the degenerative disease client as well as some of the symptoms...the participants in this study have demonstrated increases in activitiy level, balance, gait, fine motor, and quality of life as well as the decreases in depression...lets not give them a cane unless they absolutely need it and lets try to slow the process as well as make them feel worthwhile again... I beleieve in what I do and before making judgements have a conversation and discuss it...even though it is a pilot study...regardless the participants results speak for themselves... at least look at that as merit... Dr. Ben Herz...MCG OT The researcher of this project...

  26. Wiihab? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like the facility Elmer Fudd checked himself into to cure himself from his addiction to, in his words, "Bwasting wabbits."

  27. Still Waiting by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    I am still waiting for a golf game with the same simple gameplay as WII Sports Golf but lets you play of all the major courses in the world.

  28. Something worse by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

    Seeing a hot chick, taking in her attractiveness

    and then "she" walks into the mens room

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  29. The Effect by XcepticZP · · Score: 1

    We can safely attribute this to The Obama Effect.

  30. cheap wow gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Weekends to peopleig2t mean that they can have a two-day wowgold4europe good rest. For exampleï¼OE people gameusd can go out to enjoy themselves or get meinwowgold together with relatives and friends to talk with each storeingame other or watch interesting video tapes with the speebie whole family.
    Everyone spends agamegold weekends in his ownmmofly way. Within two days,some people can relax themselves by listening to musicï¼OE reading novelsï¼OEor watchingogeworld films. Others perhaps are more active by playing basketballï¼OEwimming ormmorpgvip dancing. Different people have different gamesavor relaxations.
    I often spend weekends withoggsale my family or my friends. Sometimes my parents take me on a visit to their old friends. Sometimesgamersell I go to the library to study or borrow some books tommovirtex gain much knowledge. I also go to see various exhibition to broadenrpg trader my vision. An excursion to seashore or mountain resorts is my favorite way of spending weekends. Weekends are always enjoyable for me.
    igxe swagvault oforu wowgold-usa ignmax wowgoldlive brogame thsale GoldRockU brogame
      swagvault goldsoon oforu igxe thsale

  31. Said an advanced stage Parkinson's patient... by DigitalHammer · · Score: 1

    "They tried to make me go to Wiihab but I said no no no..."

    1. Re:Said an advanced stage Parkinson's patient... by Dr.+Ben+MCG · · Score: 1

      Sorry to hear this...I have seem many different positive things from it...I have been working with the WII AND PD for 2 yrs...you should give it a try at least at home if you have one or know someone who does... Dr. Ben Herz MCG OT

  32. replies Fred O'Ster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No need to make exercise fun. Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

    The trick is getting yourself to start exercising in the first place. A sufficiently addictive game would be a good incentive. The best incentive I ever had was a girl in my neighborhood who ran at roughly the same time every day in nothing but skimpy spandex.

    No need to make exercise fun. Exercise is like sex, when you're doing it your body is spewing dopamine, endorphins, and bodily fluids in all directions. If you're doing it right, it feels great.

    The trick is getting yourself to start exercising in the first place. A sufficiently addictive game would be a good incentive. The best incentive I ever had was a girl in my neighborhood who ran at roughly the same time every day in nothing but skimpy spandex.

    What?

  33. The only thing remarkable is they funded the study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Parkinsons patients improved through

    "Actively using their brain and muscles."

    Gee..... really remarkable. Such old news to people that really understand how the brain and body function together. Hell, most people never even use them anywhere near the levels they should.

  34. FRUTAS DO BRASIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Viste tambem Frutas no Brasil.
    Pode lhe ser Ãtil à sua saÃde.
    Visite:
    Frutas do Brasil