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Windows 7 Licensing a "Disaster" For XP Shops

Posted by kdawson on from the punished-for-cautious-waiting dept.

snydeq writes "Enterprise licensing for Windows 7 could cause major headaches and add more cost to the Windows 7 migration effort, InfoWorld reports. Under the proposed license, businesses that purchase PCs with Windows 7 pre-installed within six months of the Oct. 23 launch date will be able to downgrade those systems to XP, and later upgrade back to Windows 7 when ready to migrate users. PCs bought after April 22, 2010, however, can only be downgraded to Vista — no help for XP-based organizations, which would be wise to wait 12 to 18 months before adopting Windows 7, so that they can test hardware and software compatibility and ensure their vendors' Windows 7 support meets their needs. XP shops that chose not to install Vista will have to either rush their migration process or spend extra to enroll in Microsoft's Software Assurance program, which allows them to install any OS version — for about $90 per year per PC."

37 of 567 comments (clear)

  1. Or you know... by Darkinspiration · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most shop will just ignore this little twist and downgrade to xp anyway. No sane admin will run a mix of os on user workstations if he can prevent it.

    1. Re:Or you know... by eln · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I really don't get it...how will Microsoft even know you downgraded to XP if you just boot the machine up for the first time using a WinXP install CD, and then later reinstall Windows 7 with the OS disk (you do insist on OS install disks being shipped with your new PCs, right?) at a later date? They would only be activating the Windows 7 installation one time, and MS would likely never know or care.

    2. Re:Or you know... by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why does the phrase "Lost Generation" keep coming to mind? Microsoft is setting themselves up to fail (again). Skip over Vista, skip over Win 7.0, eventually the learning curve from jumping from XP to Win 7 SP1 becomes no worse than jumping from XP to Ubuntu. Me, I swore that Win2K would be my last Microsoft OS, and it was. I'll dabble with supporting friends and relatives XP machines, because it's similar enough to 2K. I tried to configure a cow-orkers laptop a few times, now I just routinely refuse.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Or you know... by The_Wilschon · · Score: 5, Funny

      a cow-orkers laptop

      This post brought to you by explicit.slashdot.org. Let's keep it SFW, guys. None of this backwoods paraphilia.

      --
      SIGSEGV caught, terminating

      wait... not that kind of sig.
    4. Re:Or you know... by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They are closing the only way people currently have to purchase a brand new OEM license of Windows XP. The only way to install XP on any computer you don't currently have licensed is to purchase an incredibly expensive software assurance plan from Microsoft. SA isn't always a bad thing, but considering most people have been using the same OS for 7-8 years and have no intention of changing...It's not a good deal to get SA. If you bought XP in 2002, purchased the open license for $200 (guesstimate), and then paid the $66 a year for SA (assumes SA at 1/3rd price of the product)...You would have paid $662 for what you could have gotten for $200. SA only makes sense if you upgrade every 3 years or less, but the truth is, even if your new OS didn't suck, businesses don't like massive change, and changing OS version is exactly that, massive change.

    5. Re:Or you know... by Zarel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sigh, I guess this is the price we all pay for being reliant on a company which I suspect is past it's peak.

      What?

      Microsoft is doing exactly what any other software company in their position has done, and would do. You have GenericSoftware 3.0. Then, GenericSoftware 4.0 is released. You either you have to deal with a mixed software environment, or you have to upgrade everyone to GenericSoftware 4.0. How is what Microsoft's doing different from what every other company is doing?

      And don't tell me open-source doesn't have this problem. Windows XP was released in 2001. If you asked for support and patches for, say, Mozilla Phoenix 0.3 (released 2002), you'd get laughed out of pretty much everywhere. And if you actually cared about using open-source, you'd be using Linux and you wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

      And it's not compatibility, either: Windows 7 is coming with Windows XP Mode, which will give you all the IE6 you'll need for your buggy ActiveX webapps.

      So tell me: What's wrong with what Microsoft is doing with Windows XP?

      --
      Want a high quality FOSS RTS game? Try Warzone 2100!
    6. Re:Or you know... by Petrushka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Looks like I crossed the memes.

      You fool! You'll kill us all!

  2. The power of lock-in by Nerdposeur · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And yet, somehow I fear that even this will not usher in The Year of Linux on the Desktop.

    1. Re:The power of lock-in by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 5, Funny

      Windows is far from the only obstacle keeping Linux off the desktop.

      Blasphemer!
      Linux is perfect, it is totally ready for the desktop.

      I want to tell you all the reasons why linux is perfect, but I'm going to have to keep this brief, since I'm still recovering from a kernal update that went horribly wrong. but once I get my wifi working again, I can fix my no sound in flash issues. Hopefully, that wont break my DVD playback abilities this time, which i finally got to work, despite the screen saver still popping up after being turned off...

      but, once I get all that out of the way, you can expect a long list of reasons why linux is indeed ready for the desktop.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    2. Re:The power of lock-in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Blasphemer!
      Windows is perfect, it is totally ready for the desktop.

      I want to tell you all the reasons why windows is perfect, but I'm going to have to keep this brief, since I'm still recovering from a windows update that went horribly wrong. but once I track down the update failed error code I can start re-adding my printer and network definitions, then I can start looking at cleaning out my corrupted registry and removing these visues I keep getting. Hopefully, that wont break my DVD playback abilities this time, which i finally got to work, despite the screen saver still popping up after being turned off...

      but, once I get all that out of the way, you can expect a long list of reasons why windows is indeed ready for the desktop, unlike linux, which has no END of problems!

  3. Downgrade then Upgrade... sigh... by decipher_saint · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about just "Sell XP Licenses" or is that too easy?

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
  4. $90 per year per pc? Really? by tacokill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is this number right? For $90/yr/pc, I can install any MSFT operating system?

    Why isn't this program publicized? I am a small business and I have to tell you...the entire Windows licensing system is very very difficult to navigate. And I am 100% certain that is "by design". The more confused they can make me, the more money they can extract out of me and my company (or so they think).

    In actual practice, I don't mind spending money where needed and $90/yr/pc seems about fair for a Windows OS.

    Bonus points if someone can point me to a vendor who will sell it to me.

  5. same old by gx5000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We're on XP...
    They are thinking of going Vista because of the 1 on 1 MS support we have.
    Most techs here are well against any move away from XP...
    Vista II or 7 depending what your take is is not an option.
    We want out of the M$ revenue tree...
    Just code something that works and we'll pay for the patches/upgrades.
    Stop trying to sell us new stuff that just takes up more CPU cycles for no good reason.
    This industry is going nowhere fast.

    --
    End of Line.
    1. Re:same old by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 4, Funny

      We're on XP...
      They are thinking of going Vista because of the 1 on 1 MS support we have.
      Most techs here are well against any move away from XP...
      Vista II or 7 depending what your take is is not an option.
      We want out of the M$ revenue tree...
      Just code something that works and we'll pay for the patches/upgrades.
      Stop trying to sell us new stuff that just takes up more CPU cycles for no good reason.
      This industry is going nowhere fast.

      Burma-shave!

  6. Software Rental by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    M$ has finally came clean and declare that their users don't 'own' a piece of software, or for that matter, a perpetual license on a per system basis. Instead it's a rental license that must be renewed yearly. Failure to do so will result in deactivation and data loss.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:Software Rental by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Exactly. Consumers need to understand what this licensing means and why Linux, OS X, and older versions of Windows (2000-XP) are a better investment than Vista/Windows 7 licensing.

      I still use W2K at home. XP is literally a patch-work and I am tired of the reboots, so I have mostly abandoned it. Vista is slow, lacks drivers, and drops support for hardware that is perfectly good in W2K-XP. Windows 7 is an improvement -- although Windows Explorer in RC1 is annoyingly slow and reason enough for me to abandon Windows 7.

      --
      Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
    2. Re:Software Rental by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Can anyone explain what the FUCK happened to slashdot to make comments unreadable, and how to fix it? There are unremovable grey horizontal and vertical bars and pill icons everywhere. OMGPONIES was supposed to be a joke, and now they've made it reality.

      Viz: http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9974/wtfiswrongwithslashdot.png

    3. Re:Software Rental by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Do you have mod points right now?

      If so, before actually changing any of the drop down mod boxes under the comments, go to the bottom of the page and click the "Moderate" button.

      I don't know why it works, but it does.

      I'm unitron (5733). Had to log out to make this comment without undoing some mods I made.

    4. Re:Software Rental by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      On the other hand, if you don't have mod points, go up to the top of the comments where there are three drop down menu boxes for threshold and 2 other things and two buttons--reply and change--and without changing anything, click the change button.

      Don't know why that works , either, but it seems to.

      Thanks for forcing me to find a fix for something that's been driving me nuts for a couple of weeks now.

      I'm still unitron (5733), still avoiding undoing mods.

  7. Put on the fire-retardant suit, it's flame-time by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anecdotal observation time. I just built a new desktop and am planning on using it as a testbed. I have a homebrew distro of XP called XP 64-bit Ultimate which is intended to be a current, patched, up-to-date version of XP so you're not stuck downloading several hundred megs of patches and cruft when you do a new install. I also have Ubuntu 9.04 and the beta for Windows 7.

    Ubuntu worked right out of the box, decent default viddy drivers, network card detected. Sound isn't working but I hadn't expected any of it to work since this is a newish motherboard with everything integrated so that's much better than I expected. XP had a worse default viddy driver and no networking. Of course, I managed to kill Ubuntu trying to get the full ATI drivers working but that's probably just a silly mistake made overlooking something.

    Now I know that people will say "n00b, you can slipstream stuff into your custom build of xp your such a linux fanboy" etc etc but what's nice about Ubuntu is you don't have to dick with any of that stuff. Distros release very frequently and you can burn a new CD whenever you want. You can't even cheat with Windows and borrow someone's more recent CD because your legally-purchased key won't likely be compatible.

    This is a roundabout way of saying that for all the unfamiliar quirks and different ways of doing things, open source is so much nicer to work with simply due to the lack of the licensing model.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:Put on the fire-retardant suit, it's flame-time by cyber-vandal · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem is that his only alternative is to install an old version of XP and wait an eternity while it updates, then spend an age hunting around for all the drivers and then spend lots more time installing those. Imagine the pain of having to reinstall XP from an original pre-SP1 copy.

    2. Re:Put on the fire-retardant suit, it's flame-time by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Okay, so to get this straight:
      linux installed fine, but without working sound. You killed your linux installation through attempting to update video drivers.
      windows installed fine, but without working LAN drivers. I am assuming you corrected this and installed proper ATI drivers without crashing your system.

      Objectively, how is your Linux experience any better than Windows? It sounds like overall, it was worse (assuming you had a need to upgrade to ATI drivers. ). I'm not saying that linux can't be easily installed and working, obviously that is not true. However, your anecdotal experience -- if anything --- seems to say you should stay with Windows.

  8. Re:$90 per year per pc? Really? by Samalie · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, for $90/PC/year, plus the cost of the open license of Windows, you can run any Microsoft OS you want, technically all the way down to MS-DOS & Windows 3.0.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  9. Microsoft seeking a patent... by syousef · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "A method of automatically loading a weapon for repeatedly and regularly firing at one's foot without breaking the rythm".

    Microsoft has in the last couple of years:

    - Released THE most hated OS since WinMe

    - Released a confusing myriad of versions of their latest OS' which seek to differentiate by feature set, ultimately pissing off any customer who buys or is forced by a hardware manufacturer to buy an inferior version of the OS only to find that they must upgrade to get important functionality enabled

    - Replaced their Office interface with that goddawful ever changing ribbon which certain geeks continue to defend despite it completely ruining productivity, and now they're incorporating it into every damn program they can

    - Fired their Aces game development team ending a long running franchise in flight simulation

    - Put just about everyone off side with their nutty Windows Genuine campaign

    - Fucked up their Zune software with date based bugs

    It's like the captain of the ship's drunk at the helm.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Microsoft seeking a patent... by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hate that goddamn ribbon, if it wasnt for keyboard shortcuts I still couldnt print or save.

      --
      Good-bye
  10. Re:$90 per year per pc? Really? by theyulman · · Score: 5, Informative

    Did you actually read what's written...MSDN is for testing and dev only. hence the: "Software testers or IT professionals who need to set up test labs with Microsoft operating systems, but do not need additional products. Example: Test or IT staff at a video card manufacturer needs to set up a lab for testing drivers on multiple versions of Windows." If you install MSDN OS in your shop in production and MS knocks on your door...you'll find yourself in court in a snap of a finger. ...it happened to us last year

  11. The whole thing is silly by Gay+for+Linux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA: "Web apps tuned to Internet Explorer 6, which Microsoft has essentially orphaned. Windows 7 will ship with IE8, which has a compatibility mode for IE7, but not for IE6. And if IT retains IE7 in Windows 7, Silver notes that IE7 lacks an IE6 compatibility mode. So IT must rework its IE6-dependent Web apps or use XP mode to run IE6. Both are hassles."

    When Apple releases a new OS and says it's not compatible with the old, there's a huge line to suck Steve Jobs' dick. "Support of legacy software has made Windows a bloated piece of shit. Apple's so smart."

    When Microsoft makes a similar change people whine about all the hassles they'll have to go through.

    1. Re:The whole thing is silly by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When Apple releases a new OS and says it's not compatible with the old, there's a huge line to suck Steve Jobs' ****. "Support of legacy software has made Windows a bloated piece of shit. Apple's so smart."

      When Microsoft makes a similar change people whine about all the hassles they'll have to go through.

      As a personal user I wouldn't mind if Microsoft decided to pull an Apple and cut off support for all of their legacy stuff. I don't really use much legacy software anymore, and am just about done with PC gaming. If it would streamline the OS and remove some bugs, I'm all for it and would applaud them instead of criticize.

      However I can see why businesses aren't happy: many rely on old custom legacy systems. They have websites setup for IE 6, rely on legacy era (ie DOS) applications for obscure equipment, some Sales admin/entry software that can only work on certain environments, etc. And hardware, they don't just have to worry about workstations but external devices (like scales, sensors, lab equipment, etc) that might only work with a DOS-based program through an old COM port.

      In short, businesses have a LOT of specialized software that they need to keep running and cannot replace and thus want things to stay status-quo, and I can't really blame them. If upgrading their PCs and OS means spending hundreds of thousands (if not millions) on new software and hardware, you can imagine that they'd like to sit just where they are.

    2. Re:The whole thing is silly by Sj0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, The Internet is a fucking hypocrite. It's almost like it's an amalgamation of a huge number of people with a huge number of differing opinions instead of a single entity. Doesn't it know it must be internally consistent, ideologically!?

      --
      It's been a long time.
    3. Re:The whole thing is silly by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even though you're gay for linux, you seem to be able to see /. for what it is.

      How can you be gay for linux? Does that mean you are a linux too? Or is it simply enough to be any sort of OS? Like Vista?
      If you are Vista and you want to have sex with Linux, does that make you gay?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:The whole thing is silly by fooslacker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While everyone does hate on MS around here there is one major difference. In general when Apple went to OS X (and with most subsequent upgrades) it was generally viewed as a better system but when MS went to Vista it was viewed as worse. I'm not saying you don't have a point about people hating on MS just to hate but the comparison is a bit apples and oranges.

    5. Re:The whole thing is silly by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      because nobody really cares about you. You don't buy a copy of Windows on Select agreement, or Software Assurance - ie you don't pay Stevie every year to run the same software, or in the case where you get tp upgrade to the latest version, *have* to upgrade whether you want to or not.

      See, you don't want to run anything but the latest stuff, but you don't spend like those companies do, and they;re the ones who buy the "enterprise" software that still needs XP, or NT4, or DOS. Selling to you is just a sideline to Microsoft's real business.

      And last I looked, you weren't the marketplace for Biztalk, Exchange and all the other Really Expensive server software MS gets to sell to the companies that pay for Windows on their yearly licences.

    6. Re:The whole thing is silly by ring-eldest · · Score: 5, Funny

      Strangely enough, the internet is pretty consistent, you're just measuring the wrong thing and calling it signal. The internet says, loud and clear,

      99% PORN

      1% Mindless rambling about other crap while waiting for porn to download.

      The internet is a steadfast brick wall of consistency. Or perhaps a hard, throbbing rod of consistency.

  12. Software vs. Hardware support - A Realistic View. by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...which allows them to install any OS version..."

    This "Assurance" is bullshit. XP WILL die eventually, and it will be due to the hardware vendors not writing drivers anymore, not because Microsoft has "assured" you by taking your money. It's already getting difficult to find XP driver support for new hardware out there TODAY, much less 12 - 24 months from now when businesses will still be looking to run XP.

  13. Re:My entire shop is SuSE Linux by sexconker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mac shops have admins?
    I thought they just had baristas.

  14. Bah! They're Just Testing the Water by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Insightful
    They're just testing how much more abuse they can heap on their customers before those customers start leaving in droves. It really is quite consistent with their business strategies. They'll keep pushing until a lot of customers start looking elsewhere then they'll backpedal to just before that point and dial it in there. They're experts of having things just good enough and just usable enough that people don't go looking elsewhere.

    If you've been following their behavior for a while, it's pretty clear what they're up to. Watch for an increasingly bizarre set of announcements in the coming months, and at least one major backpedal.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  15. Re:My entire shop is SuSE Linux by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Funny

    Also, using boxen in a sentence is cause for automatic suspension of your nerd license.

    Your nerd license is hereby suspended.