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Windows 7 Licensing a "Disaster" For XP Shops
snydeq writes "Enterprise licensing for Windows 7 could cause major headaches and add more cost to the Windows 7 migration effort, InfoWorld reports. Under the proposed license, businesses that purchase PCs with Windows 7 pre-installed within six months of the Oct. 23 launch date will be able to downgrade those systems to XP, and later upgrade back to Windows 7 when ready to migrate users. PCs bought after April 22, 2010, however, can only be downgraded to Vista — no help for XP-based organizations, which would be wise to wait 12 to 18 months before adopting Windows 7, so that they can test hardware and software compatibility and ensure their vendors' Windows 7 support meets their needs. XP shops that chose not to install Vista will have to either rush their migration process or spend extra to enroll in Microsoft's Software Assurance program, which allows them to install any OS version — for about $90 per year per PC."
Most shop will just ignore this little twist and downgrade to xp anyway. No sane admin will run a mix of os on user workstations if he can prevent it.
And yet, somehow I fear that even this will not usher in The Year of Linux on the Desktop.
How about just "Sell XP Licenses" or is that too easy?
crazy dynamite monkey
Is this number right? For $90/yr/pc, I can install any MSFT operating system?
Why isn't this program publicized? I am a small business and I have to tell you...the entire Windows licensing system is very very difficult to navigate. And I am 100% certain that is "by design". The more confused they can make me, the more money they can extract out of me and my company (or so they think).
In actual practice, I don't mind spending money where needed and $90/yr/pc seems about fair for a Windows OS.
Bonus points if someone can point me to a vendor who will sell it to me.
We're on XP...
They are thinking of going Vista because of the 1 on 1 MS support we have.
Most techs here are well against any move away from XP...
Vista II or 7 depending what your take is is not an option.
We want out of the M$ revenue tree...
Just code something that works and we'll pay for the patches/upgrades.
Stop trying to sell us new stuff that just takes up more CPU cycles for no good reason.
This industry is going nowhere fast.
End of Line.
M$ has finally came clean and declare that their users don't 'own' a piece of software, or for that matter, a perpetual license on a per system basis. Instead it's a rental license that must be renewed yearly. Failure to do so will result in deactivation and data loss.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
If it is a large company $90/yr/pc is an outrageous price. You would be spending more for the operating system than the PC, considering most companies get a fairly good discount when buying large quantities of PCs.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
Vista 7 is made from chilli.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Win 7 Professional Upgrade license WITHOUT software assurance (With volume License) can downgrade to:
Win 95
Win 98
Win NT
Win XP Professional
Win Vista Business
Anecdotal observation time. I just built a new desktop and am planning on using it as a testbed. I have a homebrew distro of XP called XP 64-bit Ultimate which is intended to be a current, patched, up-to-date version of XP so you're not stuck downloading several hundred megs of patches and cruft when you do a new install. I also have Ubuntu 9.04 and the beta for Windows 7.
Ubuntu worked right out of the box, decent default viddy drivers, network card detected. Sound isn't working but I hadn't expected any of it to work since this is a newish motherboard with everything integrated so that's much better than I expected. XP had a worse default viddy driver and no networking. Of course, I managed to kill Ubuntu trying to get the full ATI drivers working but that's probably just a silly mistake made overlooking something.
Now I know that people will say "n00b, you can slipstream stuff into your custom build of xp your such a linux fanboy" etc etc but what's nice about Ubuntu is you don't have to dick with any of that stuff. Distros release very frequently and you can burn a new CD whenever you want. You can't even cheat with Windows and borrow someone's more recent CD because your legally-purchased key won't likely be compatible.
This is a roundabout way of saying that for all the unfamiliar quirks and different ways of doing things, open source is so much nicer to work with simply due to the lack of the licensing model.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
The release candidate will have been available for 11 months come april of next year, which is plenty of time to test hardware. Given that 7 is primarily an upgrade to Vista applications and drivers will not have issues, at least not unknown ones.
Vista can add security and stability to some environments when installed correctly. The same will be true with Windows 7 at final release, and will do so without as many slowdowns that Vista brings.
Just like it's suboptimal to run very old hardware with new operating systems, it's also suboptimal to run new hardware with an old system. Device vendors often fail to provide adequate drivers for outdated operating systems, and like it or not the base hardware in today's systems is completely different than it was back when XP was new.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
No, for $90/PC/year, plus the cost of the open license of Windows, you can run any Microsoft OS you want, technically all the way down to MS-DOS & Windows 3.0.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I would love to sign up, then flood their call centers with complaints that Win 3.11 won't run on my New i7 build = D
Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property; A Corporation is the legal fiction that property is a person.
Ironically, I wasted several mental cycles trying to parse that sentence.
What does the D stand for in MSDN again? That's right, Developer. Which is also the only environment that a MSDN server license is allowed to be used in.
"A method of automatically loading a weapon for repeatedly and regularly firing at one's foot without breaking the rythm".
Microsoft has in the last couple of years:
- Released THE most hated OS since WinMe
- Released a confusing myriad of versions of their latest OS' which seek to differentiate by feature set, ultimately pissing off any customer who buys or is forced by a hardware manufacturer to buy an inferior version of the OS only to find that they must upgrade to get important functionality enabled
- Replaced their Office interface with that goddawful ever changing ribbon which certain geeks continue to defend despite it completely ruining productivity, and now they're incorporating it into every damn program they can
- Fired their Aces game development team ending a long running franchise in flight simulation
- Put just about everyone off side with their nutty Windows Genuine campaign
- Fucked up their Zune software with date based bugs
It's like the captain of the ship's drunk at the helm.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Did you actually read what's written...MSDN is for testing and dev only. hence the: "Software testers or IT professionals who need to set up test labs with Microsoft operating systems, but do not need additional products. Example: Test or IT staff at a video card manufacturer needs to set up a lab for testing drivers on multiple versions of Windows." If you install MSDN OS in your shop in production and MS knocks on your door...you'll find yourself in court in a snap of a finger. ...it happened to us last year
Brain@Home?
From April, MS will no longer sell you a copy of XP, that's the problem.
See my submission on this and the leaked Windows 7 price hike ($45-$55 for the Starter Edition, up to $40 more expensive than the XP licence for netbook machines!):
http://slashdot.org/submission/1021213/Microsoft---Windows-7-Pricing-Malfunction
Also, using boxen in a sentence is cause for automatic suspension of your nerd license. On the other hand, it also qualifies you to receive a script kiddie license at no charge.
I disagree with your statement that users only care if it works. At my previous employer, the users didn't mind if it worked or not, so long as it was new and shiny. One user that requested to be moved to a new (at that time) flat panel LCD (15") rather than staying with her older CRT (21"). Another user wanted to be the only user on Windows Vista so that she could claim she was the only one with the latest OS. It didn't matter to her that the software she was using to perform her job duties was using a modified DOS shell which didn't run properly on Windows Vista.
From TFA: "Web apps tuned to Internet Explorer 6, which Microsoft has essentially orphaned. Windows 7 will ship with IE8, which has a compatibility mode for IE7, but not for IE6. And if IT retains IE7 in Windows 7, Silver notes that IE7 lacks an IE6 compatibility mode. So IT must rework its IE6-dependent Web apps or use XP mode to run IE6. Both are hassles."
When Apple releases a new OS and says it's not compatible with the old, there's a huge line to suck Steve Jobs' dick. "Support of legacy software has made Windows a bloated piece of shit. Apple's so smart."
When Microsoft makes a similar change people whine about all the hassles they'll have to go through.
I'll bet 100 mod points that Windows XP will be available at least a year after Windows 7 release. Microsoft barks a loud bark, but in the end, they tend to buckle under pressure from their biggest supporters.
That's nice.
I don't care. We run octo-core, quad-core, and dual-core machines that do real work and can't waste the CPU cycles on cruft that doesn't accomplish those goals.
Which means we're not "upgrading" to WinVista if we have to waste money on video cards we don't need.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"...which allows them to install any OS version..."
This "Assurance" is bullshit. XP WILL die eventually, and it will be due to the hardware vendors not writing drivers anymore, not because Microsoft has "assured" you by taking your money. It's already getting difficult to find XP driver support for new hardware out there TODAY, much less 12 - 24 months from now when businesses will still be looking to run XP.
Mac shops have admins?
I thought they just had baristas.
We tend to replace the video cards every 3-5 years, actually. Our monitors are mostly high-end LCD panels.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If you've been following their behavior for a while, it's pretty clear what they're up to. Watch for an increasingly bizarre set of announcements in the coming months, and at least one major backpedal.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Are the penalty fees still the same? last I heard it was the cost of the license with no discounts + (3*the cost of the license with no discounts) per machine. Say the license was $100 (to make the math easy) it would be $400 per machine. That can add up fast if you are a medium or large shop.
You mean if i'm using an 8 year old operating system and a 7 year old browser I may have some issues upgrading to the latest and greatest If i feel like formatting several times and have no idea what XP mode is?
Seriously- the amount of backwards compatibility microsoft gives is ridiculous. Microsoft bends over backwards to provide backwards compatibility- including installing a full copy of an older operating system in their new one. If you cant find some solution that works for you- are aren't actually looking.
Kind of hard for me to answer...I was hired to actually fix that problem (ie install more opensource) to avoid paying next year. But my understanding is that it is extremely expensive, especially since most of the licenses used where MS Server, SQL and Hyper-V.
I was IT manager for a small ($20 mil a year) company in 2001 and it was the worst year of my life. It seems like things are just getting harder and harder to deal with. Good luck guys!
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
I'm positive there's been a bong involved the whole time.
It's been a long time.
Also, using boxen in a sentence is cause for automatic suspension of your nerd license.
Your nerd license is hereby suspended.
It all comes down to the "stick with what sucks less" mentality. Businesses are in it for business - not to pay Microsoft to debug their software for them.
If there were no God, there would be no atheists. -- G.K. Chesterton
I work in a public school district and our flavor of SOftware Assurance costs much less than $90/PC - closer to $40/PC including a healthy selection of MS software (Office 2003/2007, the various shrinkwrap applications students use, etc.).
We save almost $150-200 per PC by not buying an OS pre-installed, and our typical hardware lasts about 5 years in the hands of our students, so the cost is essentially a wash (5x$40 = $200, which is aprox. savings of buying "blank" PCs from Dell), but we always have the ability to upgrade the OS/apps at will.
We plan on skipping Vista[0] and holding on to XP through the upcoming school year, then deploy Windows 7 on enduser desktops.
[0] Except for certain tablet laptops which only have drivers for VIsta...
Ken
Why raise the price.
I am sure all these businesses who are fighting tooth and nail not to lay off any more workers would love to waste more money for an OS that does the same things as XP for more money.
http://saveie6.com/