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UK Government Announces Broadband Tax

Barence writes "The UK Government is planning a 50p-per-month levy on fixed-line connections to pay for next-generation broadband. The Government claims that market forces alone will bring fiber connections to only two thirds of the country, so it plans to use the 'broadband tax' to pay for the final third by 2017. The plans form part of the Government's Digital Britain report, which also see the UK guarantee connections of 2Mbits/sec for every citizen by 2012." The report also threatens legal action and bandwidth restriction for repeat file sharers.

28 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Pointless by Captain+Kirk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    BT still owns the all the backbone connectivity and makes obscene profits on it. Taxing users in order to make more connections to that backbone monopoly is totally wrong.

    1. Re:Pointless by chrb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't you mean they own the last mile? Given that it's uneconomical to have loads of different companies constantly digging up the roads to wire up their own customers, then you have to choose either 1) the state lets a single company do it and regulates (what the UK has now) or 2) a state owned company does it (what the UK used to have). The interesting thing here is that in both cases the company was BT. A third possibility might be that the last mile infrastructure is communally owned but building and maintenance is put out to tender to private companies.

    2. Re:Pointless by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BT is restricted in how much it can wholesale ADSL lines for - and the companies taking advantage of LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) at the exchange seem to have cherry picked all the good, profitable sites (large towns, cities and the like) and left the outlying areas well alone.

      So I don't think its altogether fair to round on BT for this - the option for other companies to freely compete in these areas has been around for several years, and it has failed. So why should BT be forced to supply ADSL to outlying areas in a lossmaking fashion when no one else will?

    3. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      BT have made various attempts to hold back broadband in the UK. A few years ago a high ranking employee states that there was no future whatsoever in broadband so there was little or no point in making it fast.

      When you consider the fact that countries like Japan with VDSL, Sweden and South Korea have an average speed of 50mbps (and have had for a while now), the promise of a minimum 2gb isn't exactly exciting me.

      BT refuse to allow this tech so they can charge more for it at a later date. Why bring out something new when you can rake in more by holding back the advances (similar to the death of the electric car at GM). I am sorry to say that I am on a BT line (through no fault of my own) and I am disgusted with the infrastructure in place. I understand that Britain had it first and our systems weren't exactly made to be easily replaceable, but what we have now is a joke.

      I welcome the new proposals as a good start, but they really don't go far enough.

  2. Interesting scheme... by Manip · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of the gov' taxing people and placing down public broadband lines companies can compete over... They're literally handing a giant check to the existing two big broadband network suppliers (cable and DSL) and asking them to put down the lines. So in the long term they're just giving the broadband networks a larger subscriber base without any real public benefit.

    There is nothing wrong with the tax but what they're using it for is flawed. It will lead to monopolies in most areas, or at best two options to pick from that both charge similar rates and provide similar services.

    1. Re:Interesting scheme... by Manip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're giving the money to BT (DSL) and Virgin (cable). BT is a private for-profit company and as such will limit what it will allow competition to do and set the prices higher than a public network. Virgin [Media] doesn't allow people to use their network at all.

      A public network is always the right answer. You set up the cables, maintain them, and then set the fees based on what you're paying to keep it up-and-running.

      With your hugely sarcastic post you also didn't address why these private for-private companies should be getting a huge check out of the pocket of tax payers? Or a better question, why they're getting a huge check which they can then turn around and use to make EVERY MORE money? It is just handing them the keys to the vault.

    2. Re:Interesting scheme... by N1AK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A public network is always the right answer. ... With your hugely sarcastic post you also didn't address why

      He addressed it as well as your outright assertion without any arguement to back it up. BT was a public company, the reason it was privatised was exactly because it wasn't perceived to be very good. The price of broadband in the UK has decreased hugely over the last couple of years, not least because of the competitive market. I won't make the case that private industry is better because it minimises waste often found in public companies, or that public owned is better because they don't have the motivation to profit gouge like private companies, either can work, especially when placed in a competitive environment.

  3. What good will this do by Houndofhell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Problem is BT estimates that it will cost upwards of £5Bn to do FttC.At 50p a month even if every household paid this. It would still take 37.9 years to raise that amount. Its totally pointless, further more the problem in the UK is that all the politicans and BPI seem to have gotten it in their heads that all file-sharing is illegal regardless of whether it is family videos or the latest cinema release.

    1. Re:What good will this do by Macthorpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Problem is BT estimates that it will cost upwards of ã5Bn to do FttC.At 50p a month even if every household paid this. It would still take 37.9 years to raise that amount. Its totally pointless

      The article says they are funding "fixed/wireless services", so that isn't what they're funding.

      further more the problem in the UK is that all the politicans and BPI seem to have gotten it in their heads that all file-sharing is illegal regardless of whether it is family videos or the latest cinema release

      No, you (and far too many other people) have gotten it into your head that they think that, and you won't let it go. Note that the government quote actually says "piracy of intellectual property" and not file sharing in general.

      I know it's hard, and nobody really expects you to, but you should try reading the articles.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    2. Re:What good will this do by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact that they are concentrating on Fibre to the Cabinet is a disaster too. It's already old hat, with other countries moving to Fibre to the Home/Premises.

      It doesn't help that Virgin Media keeps lying about having "fibre optic" broadband. They don't - they have analogue fibre to their cabinets, then it's copper to the home. What we need is digital fibre all the way to the wall socket.

      FttC is the reason why we are aiming so low (2Mb) instead of looking at more useful speeds. 2Mb is barely enough for one person to watch an iPlayer low quality stream - it's inadequate now, let alone in 2012. By then the people only able to get 2Mb will be in the same position people only able to get dial-up are now: they will be locked out of all the services they want to access.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. Ahhh.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ....a tax, how imaginative.

  5. Good thing. If done right. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This actually *is* a good thing - if the money inmediately is used for the intended purpose: Bringing nation-wide Broadband fast. Which would mean that the runtime of this tax is limited to a few years, when every corner of the countryside has broadband.

    This is actually quite different from the German GEZ fee for Internet capable devices. Which is bizar beyond anything concievable.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  6. just wonderfull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
    -- Ayn Rand

  7. BT horrendously overcharges for bandwidth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And they charge based on bits transferred, not bits able to be transferred. Meaning that the most economical way of selling broadband is to oversubscribe and blame other users on the slow connection.

    1. Re:BT horrendously overcharges for bandwidth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I've seen BT apologists say this kind of crap before, and it reeks of salesman BS.

      You are coming across as someone who is a BT shill, or you directly benefit from BT's position in the market and abusive business practices, or are someone fighting with their conscience for voting for Thatcher for years, or are just an idiot who uncritically parrots BT's lies.

      Even though BT might sell connectivity in units of bandwidth, the buyers of the connectivity are ISPs - big bandwidth users. In reality they will have pretty consistent data usage patterns, probably with a general trend of increasing bandwidth requirements with time.

      As the amount of time per billing period by BT will be constant, and from your own info you say BT sell down to relatively small slices of bandwidth, essentially they are charging by data transferred, even though the billing units might well be Mbps.

      It would be most economical for an ISP to buy as little bandwidth as they need, but due to the fixed time frames the reality is that BT's charging is by the bit.

  8. Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by MindKata · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "A third possibility might be that the last mile infrastructure is communally owned"

    A fourth possibility is they pay for it out of the cost to the people who need better connections outside of the major cities.

    Getting others to pay for it is nuts. Also where does this thinking end? Can the government simply choose ever more ways to tax people to give to yet more companies to partially fund what the company should be earning from the sale of its products.

    Also they are selling a rubbish product. 2Mbits is obsolite now. So do they then come back in a few years time, to take even more money to pay to upgrade it to say 8Mbits ... then come back again and again taking ever more money every few years. Each time taking millions more to pay for incremental upgrades.

    What is it with the current UK government. Their greedy corrupt control freak attitude seems to have no end. I love how they spin it as (implied *just*) 50p-per-month levy. That sounds so much better than £6 (about $10) extra tax per year. The UK Government gives hundreds of billions to their rich banker friends and then their friends in telecoms also want some free extra money, so the Government decides to take some more money from people. Haven't they given enough already this year?!?. £6 may not be much when you have a job, but its a lot for the elderly on a pension. Also if someone walked up to you in the street and just tried to take that amount of money off you, everyone would complain about it, yet this government can just decide to take it wherever they wish.

    Its not as if BT are short of money... "BT to freeze pay of 100,000 employees" ... while "Ian Livingston, the chief executive, stands to make more than £6 million in bonuses this year if performance targets are met. This is on top of his basic salary of £850,000." ... Its a corrupt arragant UK government giving millions more to an arragant corrupt boss treating his staff with contempt. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article5890128.ece

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also they are selling a rubbish product. 2Mbits is obsolite now. So do they then come back in a few years time, to take even more money to pay to upgrade it to say 8Mbits ... then come back again and again taking ever more money every few years. Each time taking millions more to pay for incremental upgrades.

      Get serious. Nobody's going to run fiberoptics to every farm on the countryside, if they tried you'd be paying 600 GBP instead of 6 GBP. Many people outside population centers are still stuck on dialup, and ADSL would be a big upgrade. At least if they mean 2Mbit and not "up to" in the week with three sundays. Broadband is probably one of the most disproportionally distributed services, everywhere you can get power and water and phones but 10Mbit+ lines is almost exclusively in big cities.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by h4rm0ny · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Hey, I can afford 50p a month and if it actually goes toward dragging our country into the 21st Century, then I'm fine with it. I don't care if I have to subsidize a few people out in the countryside. The more people that have a decent connection, the better for UK businesses that rely on it. It also inches us toward telecommuting being viable which (a) reduces congestion in and out of the cities, (b) reduces the environmental impact on all of us and (c) lowers housing costs in built up areas.

      But mainly it's just that it's 50p a month. If the government came round all our doors and asked for £6.00 to improve our country's broadband infrastructure, I'd happily stick it in the tin so long as I knew the money wasn't disappearing into BT's (or any other one company's) bank account.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    3. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by El+Torico · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many people outside population centers are still stuck on dialup..."
      So what? Living in a suburban or rural area has its advantages and disadvantages. If the residents of an area want to have higher speed Internet access, then they can petition their local government to have a referendum in which the local residents determine if they want to fund the necessary infrastructure.

      Broadband is probably one of the most disproportionally distributed services, everywhere you can get power and water and phones but 10Mbit+ lines is almost exclusively in big cities.
      High speed Internet access is a luxury.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    4. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by khakipuce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A fourth possibility is they pay for it out of the cost to the people who need better connections outside of the major cities.

      If you follow that line of thinking then may be people who live in outside major cities should pay more road tax or may be cancer patients should pay more for expensive drugs. We generally have fair minded policies in the UK and recognise that what you loose on supporting others you gain by what they contribute to you. If dairy farmers have to pay more for braodband (and they have to use things like the Cattle Movement Service on line) then they will put that on the price of milk, or go out of business. How about next time you vist Scotland the broadband in the hotel costs 10x as much as in a city?

      What's a stake here is really the ability to distribute internet TV. We will all be better off if TV moves to internet rather than broadcast which requires high energy radio transmission and all the attendant cost. But you can't move to internet only TV unless everyone is on broad band. It would be a lot better to stop the digital TV roll-out and use that money to fund braodband.

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    5. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nobody's going to run fiberoptics to every farm on the countryside

      Post that here, got modded +1 Insightful. Post that in South Korea, get modded +1 Funny.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    6. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would presume that, current-government-is-shit slander aside, the point is that the government (and by happy coincidence everyone else) can provide services cheaper if they know that everyone in the country is on the net.

      For instance, (a) mail huge tax form to huge swathes of the population or (b) point population to website, saving trees, money, and postmen's footwear?

    7. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by duguk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are failing...

      No *I'm* not.

      73% of the UK believe they have a severely impaired quality of life without broadband; and compare the lack of it to having a lack of fresh running water. That's what the article says, and that's what I was pointing out.

  9. Where did we hear that before? by guruevi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh yeah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund

    The goals of Universal Service are:
    To promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates,
    To increase access to advanced telecommunications services throughout the Nation,
    To advance the availability of such services to all consumers, including those in low income, rural, insular, and high cost areas at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas.

    We saw where that went.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  10. They money will go straight to the Treasury by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "how can we trust these idiots to actually spend the money on what they're levying the tax for?"

    You can't and they won't. Just like road tax goes into the general pot so will this. Its just another way for our failed government to raise taxes.

  11. Will there be a tax for new computers too? by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since theres now going to be a tax for the underclass and people who are too tight to pay for broadband themselves shall we assume there'll also need to be a tax for these people to be given computers to use on said service?

  12. What's wrong with sharing files? by naich · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I really do not like the way that most news outlets say that "file sharing" is illegal. It's not. Sharing *copyrighted* files is but in itself, the act of sharing isn't. The distinction is an an important one as producers of open source and even some musicians use sharing to their advantage, but it seems to be getting increasingly lost in the noise.

    The danger is that the credibility of these new models will be eroded over time with the repetition of the general concept that sharing is wrong.

  13. Re:Brits love paying tax, so let them pay. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yeah, riighttt...
    Although, in this case, there's a grain of truth.
    The fee is per household, and it's a license to receive broadcasts, not a tax to own a TV set (the licensing authority accept that my daughter uses her TV purely for watching DVDs, so she doesn't pay for a license). A license for colour reception costs about $230 p.a. (black-and-white reception costs about $80 p.a. at today's exchange rate - assuming that you actually still have a set that can do that). And the reason that there's a grain of truth in the license fee being grudgingly accepted by Brits is that it's the direct reason that the BBC has (a) been able to operate as a national and international broadcaster, independent of both government and vested commercial interests, for three-quarters of a century, and (b) been able to sustain a level of production values that most stations and networks in the States would, frankly, give their eye-teeth to have the finances and independence to even begin to approach. Which in turn is why the license fee has not only survived for so long but also been copied as a model for public broadcasting in quite a few other European countries. Added to the fact that the Beeb, funded by the British viewing public, is also the world's largest broadcaster, likening it to PBS is roughly in the same league as saying that Bill Gates isn't short of cash.