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UK Government Announces Broadband Tax

Barence writes "The UK Government is planning a 50p-per-month levy on fixed-line connections to pay for next-generation broadband. The Government claims that market forces alone will bring fiber connections to only two thirds of the country, so it plans to use the 'broadband tax' to pay for the final third by 2017. The plans form part of the Government's Digital Britain report, which also see the UK guarantee connections of 2Mbits/sec for every citizen by 2012." The report also threatens legal action and bandwidth restriction for repeat file sharers.

31 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Pointless by Captain+Kirk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    BT still owns the all the backbone connectivity and makes obscene profits on it. Taxing users in order to make more connections to that backbone monopoly is totally wrong.

    1. Re:Pointless by chrb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't you mean they own the last mile? Given that it's uneconomical to have loads of different companies constantly digging up the roads to wire up their own customers, then you have to choose either 1) the state lets a single company do it and regulates (what the UK has now) or 2) a state owned company does it (what the UK used to have). The interesting thing here is that in both cases the company was BT. A third possibility might be that the last mile infrastructure is communally owned but building and maintenance is put out to tender to private companies.

    2. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "There's no such thing as Society." Or as my cat puts it: "Me! Me! Me!"

    3. Re:Pointless by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BT is restricted in how much it can wholesale ADSL lines for - and the companies taking advantage of LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) at the exchange seem to have cherry picked all the good, profitable sites (large towns, cities and the like) and left the outlying areas well alone.

      So I don't think its altogether fair to round on BT for this - the option for other companies to freely compete in these areas has been around for several years, and it has failed. So why should BT be forced to supply ADSL to outlying areas in a lossmaking fashion when no one else will?

  2. Repeat file sharers get bandwidth restriction? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At 2Mb/s, I'd say the entire country gets punished right from the start. This sort of speed is okay, but it's hardly the future.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Repeat file sharers get bandwidth restriction? by BikeHelmet · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm on 3mbit, and I don't mind. I'd prefer more speed, but 3mbit is actually enough to watch HD stuff off gametrailers.com, and finish downloads reasonably fast. If I need to download something big, like a steam game, I can always leave my computer on overnight.

      Much more important than raw speed - the amount of bandwidth. I get 200GB/mo, which is very difficult to use up entirely. Somehow I doubt the UK/BT will give its customers that much.

  3. Interesting scheme... by Manip · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of the gov' taxing people and placing down public broadband lines companies can compete over... They're literally handing a giant check to the existing two big broadband network suppliers (cable and DSL) and asking them to put down the lines. So in the long term they're just giving the broadband networks a larger subscriber base without any real public benefit.

    There is nothing wrong with the tax but what they're using it for is flawed. It will lead to monopolies in most areas, or at best two options to pick from that both charge similar rates and provide similar services.

    1. Re:Interesting scheme... by Manip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're giving the money to BT (DSL) and Virgin (cable). BT is a private for-profit company and as such will limit what it will allow competition to do and set the prices higher than a public network. Virgin [Media] doesn't allow people to use their network at all.

      A public network is always the right answer. You set up the cables, maintain them, and then set the fees based on what you're paying to keep it up-and-running.

      With your hugely sarcastic post you also didn't address why these private for-private companies should be getting a huge check out of the pocket of tax payers? Or a better question, why they're getting a huge check which they can then turn around and use to make EVERY MORE money? It is just handing them the keys to the vault.

    2. Re:Interesting scheme... by tolan-b · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well I'm not sure about the case with Virgin, who don't share their lines, but BT is obliged to, as the GP somewhat rudely said. So at least in terms of BT, who own all the non-cable last mile infrastructure in the country, it's not handing them alone a gift, although they will profit from it, it's also a gift to all the ADSL providers that use BT's infrastructure (at least the last mile), which is all of them.

      Still, I'm not sure what a better solution is tbh, considering the current situation. A better contract at the time of privatisation would have been a solution, but that horse has bolted.

    3. Re:Interesting scheme... by N1AK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A public network is always the right answer. ... With your hugely sarcastic post you also didn't address why

      He addressed it as well as your outright assertion without any arguement to back it up. BT was a public company, the reason it was privatised was exactly because it wasn't perceived to be very good. The price of broadband in the UK has decreased hugely over the last couple of years, not least because of the competitive market. I won't make the case that private industry is better because it minimises waste often found in public companies, or that public owned is better because they don't have the motivation to profit gouge like private companies, either can work, especially when placed in a competitive environment.

    4. Re:Interesting scheme... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

      They're giving the money to BT (DSL) and Virgin (cable). BT is a private for-profit company and as such will limit what it will allow competition to do and set the prices higher than a public network.

      BT is tightly controlled on what it can and cannot do with regard to its infrastructure and allowing other companies to have access to it - there are fairly low upper limits to the pricing structure that BT can use to wholesale its lines, and there is always the option of Local Loop Unbundling.

      The problem is, it always ends up with the profitable areas being cherry picked by providers, and the outlying areas being left in the cold. In these situations you have two options - subsidise BT to provide a loss making line, or have the government form a public entity to provide connectivity using wholesale or LLU lines.

  4. What good will this do by Houndofhell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Problem is BT estimates that it will cost upwards of £5Bn to do FttC.At 50p a month even if every household paid this. It would still take 37.9 years to raise that amount. Its totally pointless, further more the problem in the UK is that all the politicans and BPI seem to have gotten it in their heads that all file-sharing is illegal regardless of whether it is family videos or the latest cinema release.

  5. Didn't the US do something similar? by jimicus · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm sure I recall something about US phone companies being given vast quantities of money - officially to lay on broadband, but there were no sanctions written in to say "failure to lay on broadband will result in the money being repayable" or similar.

    Quite what happened with the money I don't know but it wasn't spent on broadband.

  6. Good thing. If done right. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This actually *is* a good thing - if the money inmediately is used for the intended purpose: Bringing nation-wide Broadband fast. Which would mean that the runtime of this tax is limited to a few years, when every corner of the countryside has broadband.

    This is actually quite different from the German GEZ fee for Internet capable devices. Which is bizar beyond anything concievable.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Good thing. If done right. by Tx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This actually *is* a good thing - if the money inmediately is used for the intended purpose: Bringing nation-wide Broadband fast.

      Unfortunately given the track record of our government, I can't say I'm hugely optimistic about that. This smells of the kind of private-public partnerships that our government is so fond of, where they can claim a low up-front cost for a scheme, but it ends up costing more than they thought, with the private companies raking it in at the tax payers expense. See for example the PFI hospital schemes that Mr Brown championed so keenly. I expect the telcos in line to be involved in this are rubbing their hands with glee.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
  7. The actual report by krou · · Score: 5, Informative
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/16_06_09digitalbritain.pdf

    Other major points in the report (from this BBC article):

    • a three-year plan to boost digital participation
    • universal access to broadband by 2012
    • fund to invest in next generation broadband
    • digital radio upgrade by 2015
    • liberalisation of 3G spectrum
    • legal and regulatory attack on digital piracy
    • support for public service content partnerships
    • changed role for Channel 4
    • consultation on how to fund local, national and regional news
    • £130m of BBC licence fee to pay for ITV regional news
    --
    'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
  8. Big problem with this. by jim0203 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Surely the problem here isn't that the UK government is trying to raise taxes to pay for something that has a massive social benefit, but that it's doing it via a poll tax? I pay as much towards this project as my millionaire friend and my grandmother who's on a small pension. Is it really that unfashionable to tax the rich?

  9. BT horrendously overcharges for bandwidth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And they charge based on bits transferred, not bits able to be transferred. Meaning that the most economical way of selling broadband is to oversubscribe and blame other users on the slow connection.

    1. Re:BT horrendously overcharges for bandwidth by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Funny

      BT does not horrendously overcharge for bandwidth, the rates they can charge to other competitors is heavily regulated by OFCOM in the UK. If ISPs are not charging what it actually costs to provide the service, then the problem is the ISP and not BT nor the user.

  10. What some in the UK think about this report. by auric_dude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A quick glance at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3994-the-digital-britain-report-is-finally-out.html will show what some think of this and http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ gives a wider view of ISP related moans with links to other ISPs information.

  11. ISPs doing other people's dirty work? by IBBoard · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to the article, the government is going to be getting the ISPs to do their dirty work for them, whatever we have as an RIAA/MPAA equivalent, and the police:

    it will "place an obligation on ISPs to maintain records of the most frequent offenders, which would allow rights holders to take targeted legal action against these infringers."

    Sounds like they're making the ISPs track down the sharers so that the rights holders can just cherry-pick from a list. Sounds like a bad situation for the ISPs to get in to with things like "common carrier" statuses.

    Finally, ISPs will be roped in to protect copyright material, restricting bandwidth to known filesharers, and even blocking access to certain protocols entirely.

    Again, looks like the ISPs aren't just going to be "carriers" any more. Could be quite a bad precedent (for the ISPs, at least). Also, what's the betting that a) the protocol blocks will be a blanket ban on BitTorrent, meaning that legitimate downloads (like Linux ISOs) will also be affected and b) they'll do it in such a way that's easily circumventable?

  12. Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by MindKata · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "A third possibility might be that the last mile infrastructure is communally owned"

    A fourth possibility is they pay for it out of the cost to the people who need better connections outside of the major cities.

    Getting others to pay for it is nuts. Also where does this thinking end? Can the government simply choose ever more ways to tax people to give to yet more companies to partially fund what the company should be earning from the sale of its products.

    Also they are selling a rubbish product. 2Mbits is obsolite now. So do they then come back in a few years time, to take even more money to pay to upgrade it to say 8Mbits ... then come back again and again taking ever more money every few years. Each time taking millions more to pay for incremental upgrades.

    What is it with the current UK government. Their greedy corrupt control freak attitude seems to have no end. I love how they spin it as (implied *just*) 50p-per-month levy. That sounds so much better than £6 (about $10) extra tax per year. The UK Government gives hundreds of billions to their rich banker friends and then their friends in telecoms also want some free extra money, so the Government decides to take some more money from people. Haven't they given enough already this year?!?. £6 may not be much when you have a job, but its a lot for the elderly on a pension. Also if someone walked up to you in the street and just tried to take that amount of money off you, everyone would complain about it, yet this government can just decide to take it wherever they wish.

    Its not as if BT are short of money... "BT to freeze pay of 100,000 employees" ... while "Ian Livingston, the chief executive, stands to make more than £6 million in bonuses this year if performance targets are met. This is on top of his basic salary of £850,000." ... Its a corrupt arragant UK government giving millions more to an arragant corrupt boss treating his staff with contempt. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article5890128.ece

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by h4rm0ny · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Hey, I can afford 50p a month and if it actually goes toward dragging our country into the 21st Century, then I'm fine with it. I don't care if I have to subsidize a few people out in the countryside. The more people that have a decent connection, the better for UK businesses that rely on it. It also inches us toward telecommuting being viable which (a) reduces congestion in and out of the cities, (b) reduces the environmental impact on all of us and (c) lowers housing costs in built up areas.

      But mainly it's just that it's 50p a month. If the government came round all our doors and asked for £6.00 to improve our country's broadband infrastructure, I'd happily stick it in the tin so long as I knew the money wasn't disappearing into BT's (or any other one company's) bank account.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    2. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by khakipuce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A fourth possibility is they pay for it out of the cost to the people who need better connections outside of the major cities.

      If you follow that line of thinking then may be people who live in outside major cities should pay more road tax or may be cancer patients should pay more for expensive drugs. We generally have fair minded policies in the UK and recognise that what you loose on supporting others you gain by what they contribute to you. If dairy farmers have to pay more for braodband (and they have to use things like the Cattle Movement Service on line) then they will put that on the price of milk, or go out of business. How about next time you vist Scotland the broadband in the hotel costs 10x as much as in a city?

      What's a stake here is really the ability to distribute internet TV. We will all be better off if TV moves to internet rather than broadcast which requires high energy radio transmission and all the attendant cost. But you can't move to internet only TV unless everyone is on broad band. It would be a lot better to stop the digital TV roll-out and use that money to fund braodband.

      --
      Art is the mathematics of emotion
    3. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by duguk · · Score: 3, Informative

      High speed Internet access is a luxury.

      73% of the UK disagree with you:

      UK consumers now believe broadband is becoming as essential a utility as electricity or water, according to a panel of government advisers. Some 73% of those questioned described a high-speed connection as important.

    4. Re:Greedy corrupt control freak UK government by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nobody's going to run fiberoptics to every farm on the countryside

      Post that here, got modded +1 Insightful. Post that in South Korea, get modded +1 Funny.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  13. Where did we hear that before? by guruevi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh yeah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund

    The goals of Universal Service are:
    To promote the availability of quality services at just, reasonable, and affordable rates,
    To increase access to advanced telecommunications services throughout the Nation,
    To advance the availability of such services to all consumers, including those in low income, rural, insular, and high cost areas at rates that are reasonably comparable to those charged in urban areas.

    We saw where that went.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  14. Will there be a tax for new computers too? by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since theres now going to be a tax for the underclass and people who are too tight to pay for broadband themselves shall we assume there'll also need to be a tax for these people to be given computers to use on said service?

  15. Satellite internet not good enough? by slashbart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In France you can get 3.6MB/s satellite internet for 40 euro per month. So why would you pull cables? Only hardcore gamers will be in trouble, ping times of 600 ms are typical. But then, keep the gamers in the city please :-)

  16. What's wrong with sharing files? by naich · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I really do not like the way that most news outlets say that "file sharing" is illegal. It's not. Sharing *copyrighted* files is but in itself, the act of sharing isn't. The distinction is an an important one as producers of open source and even some musicians use sharing to their advantage, but it seems to be getting increasingly lost in the noise.

    The danger is that the credibility of these new models will be eroded over time with the repetition of the general concept that sharing is wrong.

  17. It doesn't matter, anyway by Toy+G · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They can say what they want, but next year the Tories will win and scrap most of this plan.

    The Tories are not in bed with telcos, credit-card manufacturers and "creative industries", they have different sponsors (oil companies, "old money", etc). The flow of pork will be redirected accordingly. This report is hardly worth the digital paper it is printed on.

    --
    -- Let's go Viridian.