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Natal Technology a Gift To the Disabled, Amputees

Posted by Soulskill on from the you-and-what-arms dept.

SlappingOysters writes "Natal could be capable of a lot more than was originally thought. Gameplayer has some information about how the technology will function in multiplayer, and goes on to reveal how it is intelligent enough to give full-bodied virtual movement to disabled gamers. The site had previously revealed that the Natal dev kits have been with developers for a couple of months, suggesting that the device may not be as far off as has been suggested by some media outlets."

50 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. That's Terrible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    First God gives these people a crippled body.

    Now Microsoft wants to give them a crippled video game system?!

    1. Re:That's Terrible! by SlappingOysters · · Score: 1

      I must admit, that was really funny!

    2. Re:That's Terrible! by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Funny

      You're right, I reckon they don't have a leg to stand on.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:That's Terrible! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You mean they're just arsing around?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Nice article, Eddie Bernays. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Anthropomorphization is an excellent propaganda technique, vaporware astroturfer.

  3. And my dog by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Funny

    My cat keeps crushing my dog at video tennis. The gold fish like bowling.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  4. I'll believe it when I see it by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More likely the game will refuse to move your virtual arm/leg just as your disabled body does.

    In other words: Microsoft's Natal Adds Insult To Injury.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 1

      If you were an amputee with a stump for a right arm, surely swinging that like it was a full arm would be enough for Natal to compute that you were making a shot at the ball.

      If you've got enough of a stump that Natal can detect the motion, then you've got enough of a stump to use a prosthetic. If you've got a prosthetic, you've already got enough ability to swing around a wii-mote. It doesn't offer anything that the Wii doesn't already offer disabled people, or that these guys don't already offer One Switch if you are more disabled then that. Sure, it'd be nice to have games made for this stuff, but I remain HIGHLY skeptical about this guy's speculation.

    2. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Amputees develop coping mechanisms anyway; they do things in a different way, that's all. It's especially true with congenital amputees because they have never known the use of the body parts they miss, so they really aren't disabled at all. Most of them end up ditching whatever prosthetics their parents try to get them fitted with and do just fine without. See this for example. It's trickier for people who become amputees later in life though.

      Amputees have been playing video games for as long as video games have existed, and quite frankly, I think that Microsoft effort is a just a feel-good, look-how-caring-we-are marketing stunt.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by Jurily · · Score: 1

      In other words: Microsoft's Natal Adds Insult To Injury.

      While keyboards are still clearly superior if you only have one hand, how many other types of controllers are out there if you're disabled?

      Maybe the wiimote, but that requires you to wave it around too much.

    4. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you've got a prosthetic, you've already got enough ability to swing around a wii-mote.

      You're dumb, and should stop right here. This is provably untrue.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

      If you've got a prosthetic, you've already got enough ability to swing around a wii-mote.

      You're dumb, and should stop right here. This is provably untrue.

      I was going to ask for your evidence, but I wouldn't want to be accused of being dumb, so I guess you win. Congratulations! What prize would you like? Amused disdain, or open contempt?

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    6. Re:I'll believe it when I see it by McGiraf · · Score: 2, Funny

      congenital amputees?!?

      they have genes that cut off their limbs?

      wow.

  5. Possibly, but unlikely by Zerth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Much like most game companies never bother to consider color blindness when picking their display schemes, very few will consider the disabled for motion control. Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri got a nice patch for that, though.

    And you probably know how many console games still force one layout or give you a few presets, despite it being relatively trivial to remap controllers these days. I imagine even fewer will allow you to change "swing your arm" to "twitch your nose" after spending weeks training the gesture recognition for arm movements.

    1. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Informative

      To be honest, you can't ask companies to consider *all* disabilities. I agree that, for instance, a ramp should be mandatory when staircases are present to access a building, because in that case, wheelchair-bound people just cannot access the building on their own. But color blindness is hardly disabling, it's merely an inconvenience.

      A friend of mine is color blind, and his solution for hard-to-see computer images was to disconnect the red VGA pin and reconnected it in parallel with the green. His display is truly atrocious, but apparently much easier to see for him and he likes it that way. Anyway, just saying, a bit of solder and 5 minutes may take care of all problems with video game colors for color-blind people, so I don't think video game companies should bear that burden really.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by MrMista_B · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "But color blindness is hardly disabling, it's merely an inconvenience."

      You're not color blind, are you?

      Yeah, thought not. I guess calling someone a hypocritical asshole is hardly insulting, it's merely an inconvenience. You hypocritical asshole.

      Smiley face! :)

    3. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 1, Troll

      Look, I'm not dissing color blind folks, I'm just saying, unless they tell you they're daltonians, you'd be hard-pressed to know. Sure they have trouble finding tasteful shirts or (in the case of my friend) judging the color of a steel part when tempering it, but it's not like they bump into things, need a white cane or buy books in braille. It's not disabling, it's inconvenient. Everybody has problems like that at some point in their lives.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    4. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by CyprusBlue113 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tell that to the guy who has to interpret two different display colors at 2am on a generator status panel that appear to be the same temper of gray to him. (Real situation, fixed by some 2 cent cellophane)

      My boss is partially color blind, and it's been an experience trying to rework monitoring systems / internal UI's so he can gain the same meaning from a display that everyone else can. You just don't think about things like that when it doesn't affect you

      --
      a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
    5. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Tell that to the guy who has to interpret two different display colors at 2am on a generator status panel that appear to be the same temper of gray to him. (Real situation, fixed by some 2 cent cellophane)

      So apparently, your company's special accommodation for its employee's disability is a candy wrapper and a bit of sticky tape. You prove my point.

      My boss is partially color blind, and it's been an experience trying to rework monitoring systems / internal UI's so he can gain the same meaning from a display that everyone else can. You just don't think about things like that when it doesn't affect you

      Fair enough. But is your boss able to drive? Does he need adaptations in his house? does he need a disabled parking placard because he can't walk far? Does he need nursing care? I guess not. He just needed a more convenient UI for himself.

      I guess in the end it comes down to what can be considered a disability or not. For instance, I can't feel half of my right hand because of an accident I had years ago. As a result, I keep dropping things, hurting myself, etc... but I don't consider myself disabled: I just wear a glove with a sticky rubber palm side when I work on delicate parts, a fireproof glove when I heat things up, and a "chain mail" glove (they are sold at scuba diving stores, for diving with sharks) when I work with tools that drill or cut and I need to hold the part by hand. I suppose I could have asked my boss to pay for them, but that's a bit much don't you think?

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    6. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by N1AK · · Score: 1

      I'm just saying, unless they tell you they're daltonians, you'd be hard-pressed to know.

      And severe epilepsy isn't detectable unless someone is having an attack. I suppose that isn't a disability? Not being allowed to drive is just 'inconvenient'.

      Colour blindness [i]is[/i] a disability as it can limit the sufferers ability to do things. The fact that things can easily be designed not to affect them helps, but someone who is red/green colour blind (and no doubt other types) will still come across things including games that they are unable to use because of colour choice. Disabilities vary in severity, and saying something is a disability isn't inferring that people with it are inferior, it merely acknowledges that some people have varying limitations and reminds us to incorporate that in our decisions.

    7. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by Zeussy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am very extremely inclined to agree with you, my brother is partially color blind (I am not sure to what extent as it has never been bad enough to ask about) and he is a qualified electrician and for him its just a mild inconvenience. My mum had a stroke about 15 years ago and lost all control and sensation of her right arm, and a significant amount from her right leg, but has enough control to still walk with a stick.
      Now my brother lives a normal life, living a normal job, with 2 kids, 2 cars, a wife and a house. Who occasionally has difficulty telling the difference between 2 different coloured wires. My mum has had to change the way she does things for every part of her life, from getting out of bed, having a shower, to cooking and eating her meals, to driving a car. So to all the parents of this post who say some lame shit like "Tell that to my boss who is colour blind" well I will fucking tell him! It is pale in comparison to what my mum has to deal with, which is a mild disability to a lot of other disabled people.

      --
      Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
    8. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by somersault · · Score: 1

      That's a bit overly PC IMO. If I was colour blind I wouldn't mind admitting my eyesight was "inferior" in some respects. Saying "varying limitations" is just another way of saying that some people have bigger limitations, which is another way of saying inferior (at least in the area of vision) to those who have less limitations. Different words, exactly the same meaning.

      And he didn't say epilepsy was just inconvenient, he said colour blindness was inconvenient, and he's right. Trying to equate some mild defect like colour blindness with severe epilepsy or missing a limb is stupid. Even trying to equate all types of epilepsy with each other is stupid. Some forms are a lot more serious, while some others are more at the level of 'inconvenient' because the risk of seizure can be kept low by taking medication, avoiding caffeine/alcohol etc and avoiding flashing lights if you are photo-sensitive. Some epileptics are allowed to drive.

      And in fact yes, not being able to drive is simply inconvenient rather than essential for living. Certainly for the majority of the world's population, and even for most of the western world where driving is just the done thing. None of my 3 siblings and a lot of my friends have not learned to drive yet, and they seem to be surviving okay out in the big bad world. I myself was banned from driving for 3 months last year and it was actually one of the best things to happen to me for years, because I started walking everywhere again and it got me into the mood for taking regular exercise, which I've continued despite having my license back. Of course we have comparatively small cities and decent public transport in this country, so most places are within walking distance, or if you want you can get wherever you want to go in the country by bus and train. In your country it might be different.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    9. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by Fizzl · · Score: 2, Informative

      My father was color blind. Apart from buying atrocious outfits on his own, it didn't affect much of his life.
      Only thing that bothered him, was that he wanted to enjoy visual arts like paintings and tried some oil painting himself.

      --
      Bot Assisted Blogging
    10. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that, for instance, a ramp should be mandatory when staircases are present to access a building, because in that case, wheelchair-bound people just cannot access the building on their own.

      Wrong. Wheelchair-bound people unwilling to sacrifice a small part of their dignity cannot access the building on their own. It is totally possible for most of them to scoot up and down steps on their arse. We have decided that is below their dignity, and therefore we should force owners of small shops to put in ramps for their benefit, even those shop owners don't give one tenth of one shit about serving them and have the legal right to refuse to do business with them for any reason.

      Mandating wheelchair ramps on public businesses and for access to public utilities is reasonable; hell, even mandating them on monopolies would be okay. Requiring them across the board is fucking ridiculous, but even that is not as stupid as complaining that a particular video game system might not be as usable if you're missing limbs.

      If we choose to live in a capitalist society, we must accept that markets only get served when there's money to be made.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by TheInsaneSicilian · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Wheelchair-bound people unwilling to sacrifice a small part of their dignity cannot access the building on their own. It is totally possible for most of them to scoot up and down steps on their arse.

      Assuming they do get off their wheelchair, and "scoot" up a few steps like you suggest, then what? Does their wheelchair magically do the same thing and then they continue on their journey into the building?

    12. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by space_jake · · Score: 1

      When the boss glows green, he reflects melee attacks. When the boss glows red, he reflects ranged attacks. When you're color blind, you just die. Clearly, I need to muck about with my own hardware solution rather than trouble a developer.

    13. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by lessthan · · Score: 1

      Some forms of color blindness only affects one color, like red/green color blindness. you can't tell the difference between red and green. You can refer to this as partial color blindness, because you can still see some colors. You can also have total color blindness, where the world appears monochromatic. I notice that you are using a "u" in color. Perhaps it is an American English vs British English issue?

      --
      Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
    14. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      I thought it was pretty cool actually that WoW has a colorblind mode since being colorblind could really frig up your ability to play certain parts of that game.

      "Go get me 12 orange...oh...umm...I mean the blue flower looking...umm...you know what go kill 10 forest boars or something."

    15. Re:Possibly, but unlikely by lessthan · · Score: 1

      The way I look at it is, the language is ENGLISH, you know, the language of England, therefore not speaking/writing it the English way equals speaking/writing it the *wrong* way.

      Then you deny the thing that makes English great. Language, in some part, defines not only what we can communicate, but what we conceive. If our language is stagnant and unchanging, so shall our ideas be stagnant.

      I find your description of the stoplights hard to believe. I'm fairly sure that it is illegal in the States, because of color blindness. Where is this?

      --
      Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
  6. Ah, good old Microsoft by mvdwege · · Score: 1

    Now just why would they hype a product that's not even ready for market yet? Including using videos that are acknowledged to possibly not show real capabilities?

    Hey, it worked for Pen Windows, didn't it?

    Mart

    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    1. Re:Ah, good old Microsoft by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      You're smart. All the best, most successful companies never market anything until it's on the shelves.

    2. Re:Ah, good old Microsoft by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      And you're an idiot, because that was not remotely what I said. Here's a hint, peabrain: 'ready for market' does not equal 'on the shelves'.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    3. Re:Ah, good old Microsoft by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Why the animosity? I said you were smart. And you are indeed smart. All the best companies wait until their product is ready for the market before they start advertising it or building hype for it. The world is littered with the success of great, ingenious companies who never hype anything.

      You can't walk 5 feet without bumping into a successful company that never markets an idea or product as it's being developed!

  7. This is bad??? by Brianech · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For such a positive article, there are nothing but negative comments... Its good to see that technology made for gaming can in turn be used to help the disabled. For all the bad press games/gamers get, there is now something really promising that we can say came from gaming. Natal, if it turns out as well as they claim it will, is a impressive piece of technology. To reach a broad audience it will have to be affordable. Makes you wonder what the comments would be like had Sony, Apple, IBM or any other company for that matter had created it.

    1. Re:This is bad??? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You are 100% correct, and it makes me sad (though not surprised) to see you modded as Troll. I remember "back in the day" when Nintendo had their press release for a NES controller for the disabled, you moved the joystick with your chin, you held a tube in your mouth, and you blew on it for A and sucked on it for B or something (the jokes, as always, write themselves.) Nintendo was lauded as the great hero of the disabled, when in actuality they were spending a tiny piece of money (for them) for huge piles of goodwill. In the end, though, that was still just a fancy joystick! Microsoft has here provided us what is likely the next major evolution in gaming, and taken the time and spent the money (I know, big woop) to make sure that it will work for people who are not entirely whole. I know it's not PC to talk about people that way, but that's how it is!

      In actuality, having a video game vendor give any attention to the disabled when designing a major system feature is highly unusual; it's not like you can go into a gaming store and buy ANY gaming peripherals for disabled gamers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:This is bad??? by brkello · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if this was something created by Nintendo you know everyone would be saying how wonderful it was. For some reason people get stupid about consoles and companies. They all want your money. If they do something good, praise them, if they do something bad, call them out. But hating on Natal just because it is made by MS is pretty retarded no matter how you look at it.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
  8. rtfa, please, editors... by polle404 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I know, I know, i actually read tfa...
    it's all speculation, by an Aussie reporter, that it MIGHT be beneficial to disabled gamers.
    according to tfa, he speculates, that since it's supposed to work with partially obscured body parts, eg. swinging an arm behind someones back, it might also be usable to amputees.

    While i applaud the idea, I'd like to see it in action before we proclaim it our new controller-less overlord.

    I'm still waiting for the generic, computer/tv/dvd/ect. peripheral for remote-less control of electronic equipment in my home.

    --

    ~men are from earth. women are from earth. deal with it.~
    1. Re:rtfa, please, editors... by Orionn2000au · · Score: 1

      by an Aussie reporter

      I don't think I like your tone. You got something to say about Aussie's?

  9. Points to gameplayer by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    TFA has a picture of adult hands holding a tiny premature baby, with the caption

    Where we're going, we don't need hands

    There's something disturbing about not only the caption by itself, but the combination that is brilliant.

  10. Re:Such pessimism... by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, most of the comments seem to be jokes on disabilities. Which in many ways is worse...

  11. Please Stop Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    k?

  12. Re:Why MS Is So Desperately Hyping This Stuff by Ksempac · · Score: 1

    I wonder why i try replying to an anon troll, but I will bite.

    Your rant is nice and long (and partially true, for example i hate the way they charge for Live), but could you back it up by facts ? For example, how is the Xbox a train wreck ? how is it dying ?

    Quick and dirty google search :
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/microsoft-games-profits-up-by-16-per-cent

    The original Xbox was a real money sink, but it was a way to get a foothold in the console market. Now the Xbox 360, while still outpaced by the Wii, is the real deal and a money maker for Microsoft. Moreover, despite being the oldest console, its growth keeps increasing over the past 2 years.

  13. Re:Why MS Is So Desperately Hyping This Stuff by grumbel · · Score: 1

    The difference between Sonys and Microsofts motion controls is that Sony actually demonstrated useful gameplay. FPS, RTS, sword fighting, tennis, golf, graffiti and many more are rather trivial to implement with Sonys solution as shown by their tech demo. What did Microsoft on the other side show? Splattering color on a wall? Great, but where is the precision in that? Fully-Body-Waggle Breakout, well party fun, sure, but isn't really useful as a general game mechanic. And then Burnout, well, sure it might work, but where is the advantage over using a controller or if I care, a real racing wheel controller? Natal just doesn't seem all to useful outside from a few party games and most of the useful things it could do (face and voice recognition) could be done as well with existing technology, i.e. a normal camera and a headset.

  14. Re:Why MS Is So Desperately Hyping This Stuff by SlappingOysters · · Score: 1

    You're referring to the actual press conferences. Behind closed doors however Sony let no one play with the Wands, but Microsoft did let journos play with Natal

  15. Not sure that means what you think it means by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    "Natal Technology a Gift To the Disabled, Amputees"

    GIFT
    Considering that "gift" pretty much presupposes there's no compensation given in return, and this is Micro$oft we're talking about, I'd imagine any serious editor would change that simply to BENEFIT.

    I know accusing /. editors of sloppy editing is like calling water wet, but hey.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Not sure that means what you think it means by SlappingOysters · · Score: 1

      that would be a matter of perspective wouldn't it? To a disabled person it might feel like a gift

  16. Katawa Shoujo? by Guppy · · Score: 1

    You know, I really have to wonder, will Katawa Shoujo have support for this?

  17. Re:Such pessimism... by feepness · · Score: 1

    It's not polite to point out the differently-humored.

  18. Isn't it the opposite? by Reapman · · Score: 1

    Legit question here as I am probably missing something, but how would a controller requiring motion (Be it MS's, Sony's, or Nintendo's) be helpful to those with _limited_ mobility? Would'nt a controller with buttons be easier? I would think even hacking a controller to work with whatever physical disability you may have would be easier then something requiring say moving a leg if you don't have any? Quite curious.

  19. Re:MS's Exit From The Console Market by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

    Whatever, dork. Unfortunately for your distorted view of the world the XBox 360 is eating Sony's lunch - please see attach rates, top game sellers, etc...