Slashdot Mirror
Where Does a Geek Find a Social Life?
JustShootMe writes "I have a question for my fellow Slashdotters, and yes, I realize I am entering the lion's den covered in tasty meat-flavored sauce. I have never been a very social person, preferring to throw myself into technology; therefore, I've been spectacularly unsuccessful in developing any meaningful interpersonal relationships. Lately I have begun to feel that this situation is not tenable, and I would like to fix it. But I really don't know how and haven't the faintest idea where to start. I know that I am in the minority and that there are many different kinds of Slashdot readers, most of whom have more experience in this realm than I do. So please tell me: how, and more importantly, where do you meet fellow geeks — preferably including some of the opposite gender — in meatspace?"
Yeah, but is that such a bad thing? Maybe he doesn't just want a mundane, he wants a relationship with a female geek.
To the original questioner: How about finding your local a Hackerspace? It's the perfect combination of meatspace activity and geekery. Plenty of geeky/artsy types at events like Maker Faire, or whatever your local equivalent is.
Eric Raymond's famous essays on relationships and the modern geek: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/
I met my first serious girlfriend of 5 years on what used to be Yahoo Personals (I think it's still around or it's probably Match.com powered now).
My most recent (going on 3 years) girlfriend who I would consider my long term partner I met on Craigslist.org. I know it sounds lame but finding someone who was smart and shared at least a few similar interests is a challenge especially when your passion is technology.
Might be worth a try?
It takes time to get your posts right before you get responses. The best advice I can give if you try your hand at online dating is share a picture within an email or two, and make sure to meet up in person as opposed to developing a relationship via email first. People tend to be different when you meet them in person. Get out there and go on as many dates as you can. You'll find someone for you.
And people who make fun of you for trying are lonely and miserable and they are just projecting onto you because you're trying to correct your situation!
Good for you!
What do you mean the situation is not tenable (i.e. maintainable). If you don't do anything, or if you do the wrong things, the situation will stay as it is---maintaining the status quo is easy as pie.
As to why you should give up, the answer is roughly that you probably don't have anything to offer to women. Firstly, note that only about 40% of men reproduced compared to twice that percentage for women (as inferred from mitochondrial DNA), so you're in a man's normal condition.
For some contemporary evidence that women don't need most men, just look around to notice that in general women don't hit on men sexually. Often women will only have sex with men for the first time after large amounts of alchohol. There's no culture where women pursue men instead of vice versa, so this is not merely a fact about western culture. There's also plenty of chemical evidence (e.g. women get testosterone treatment to increase their sex drive).
In fact, scientific studies (tracking eye movements) show that both straight women and straight men are more turned on by a naked women than naked men (see Matt Ridley's The Red Queen for a discussion).
Finally, studies usually find that married men are much happier than unmarried men, but married women are usually no happier once the financial contribution of the man is deducted (here for example). Furthermore, married men but not women live longer and are healthier.
So anyway, I can see why you want a woman, but in general that's usually a selfish decision for a guy. Why not come to terms with your condition and lead a meaningful life in another way?
Yes, learn to dance. No, I didn't meet my wife dancing, I met her online, but she has taken me dancing and the girl to guy ratio is like 10:1.
Umm, you don't perhaps want to give up now do you?
Still listening? Sigh! Biology has you by the balls, eh?
Ok. First off. Wash. Squeaky clean, shaved and no smells.
Next, practice. Practice on a captive chained wage slave.... I mean till operator.
Practice, being polite, nice, more interested in what they are interested in than in yourself, complimentary. You know that incredibly boring weather and hair stuff smalltalk (not the OOP language) you hate? Get over that and practice anyway. Not about tech, not about what's wrong with your life, but what the girl is saying, doing, thinking.
Be always squeaky clean and nice. The next step is tricky... you see, men deceive themselves that they can get the girls. It's the other way round. Human biology works the other way.
Men merely demonstrate that they at least have some capability of being molded into a domesticated breeding partner.... and then the girls take their pick.
Thereafter make yourself available. Place yourself in contexts where the opposite gender exist. Going to Linux meetings or motorbike meets is not what I mean. Church socials are an excellent place, visit married friends (with eligible friends and sisters), ...
Umm, let be a bit clearer.. Nature's course is some girl will attempt to mold you like putty. Change what you wear and how, what you eat, how you live, what you do etc. If you show you are (to the appropriate degree) pliable...AND more interested in what she is doing and saying than your tech.
She may decide you are marriagable material.
Still here? Sure you don't want a new netbook instead? Or perhaps an inflatable friend?
Sigh! Girls, they're the ultimate bait and switch.
And NO, you not having my wife, get your own. I may grumble, but I wouldn't swop her for anything. Not even a new motorbike.
Try this little experiment:
There are scant few real women trying to find relationships there...unless you're looking for the paying kind, or the old (read, 50+) hopeless romantic.
I second Swing. I've been doing it for 3 years, and it is great way to get exercise, just take a look at this if you don't believe me. Of course, it doesn't start out that fast, very few people, even those who have been doing it for years can't dance that fast for any amount of time.
Plus, it has a very goofy, carefree attitude, which can be easier to approach than the intense, "stare passionately into your partner's eyes" that the Latin family of dances tend to have. Just about any lack of skill can be excused by a big dopey smile.
Lastly, and I have no idea why this is, but swing dancers tend to be techy. At my local scene, almost all (no joke, like 80%) of the guys are either Computer Science or Computer Engineering. The girls are a bit more diverse, but cluster around biomed or applied math/econ.
But the advice of the parent is essential. If you make it clear that you are there to pick up girls, you will quickly become "that creepy guy." On the other hand, I've known fat old guys whom all the college girls are lining up to throw themselves on, so attitude plays a huge part.
Assuming guy looking for women: church, craft stores and shows, classical music concerts (musicians), amateur theater, Mac computer organizations have more women, Word SIGs, camera clubs, community college night courses. Married co-workers' wives have single friends. Volunteer groups, food banks, Salvation Army,
I would also suggest just going to things that interest you. Chances are that you'll find people there that you find interesting and who find you interesting. Plus you'd already have something in common.
The thing is that "I have to go to this place and find people who will like me" should not be your goal. You should go to things that you want to go to or are interested in. Going places just to meet people with the "will you be my friend" thing tends to make you come off as weird and not in the good way.
I met most of my really good friends that way. So have a lot, if not most, of the people I know.
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
There's lots of great advice in this thread about location, and tips on how not to freak someone else out.
But one thing to keep in mind, probably tip number 1 in my mind anyways, is once you've met someone interesting, don't forget to pull the trigger.
By this, I mean you have to act if you want to get anywhere. Don't worry too much about the consequences of said actions, and play it relaxed. So, if you see a lady you might be interested in, strike up a conversation. See if you can get 5 minutes of not-uncomfortable small talk. If you can get that far, maybe ask if she'd like to continue the conversation over coffee. Don't suggest coffee at a later date (but don't argue if that's what she counters with) -- just do it.
Commit yourself to coffee and nothing more. Do your best to convince yourself that the entire meeting ends once the cup is empty, and just focus on having a meaningful encounter for 20 or 30 minutes.
If things are going well, hint that it would be fun to meet up again sometime. If she agrees, ask for her number.
When you call her back, have something interesting that you'd like to suggest doing. Dinner is always safe, but make sure the restaurant matches the girl (eg. if during coffee she mentioned that she moved from the coast to Wisconsin, and misses Indian food, see if you can find somewhere with a wicked curry - don't, however, just book a dinner at a nice restaurant and assume that's OK). Better than dinner, try finding an activity, with a fixed start and stop time, that could be fun for both of you. Maybe there's a con or a concert in the park, or you and some friends are heading to the beach for an afternoon with a bar-b-q (note: this is only a good idea if there are other ladies coming, four dudes on an empty beach will be creepy).
If you think things are going well, and you feel a spark, initiate some kind of physical encounter. Start with casual touch (putting your hand on her shoulder, or on the small of her back), then move up to less casual from there. The more basic contact there is, the less creepy non-standard contact will seem. That is, if you kiss someone out of nowhere it will feel strange. If you have already been in physical contact, it's the next logical step. Also, this gives you a good way to assess how she's feeling. If she recoils in terror, you're probably not getting lucky tonight. If she's fine with it, or if she seems into it, awesome. Then, by all means, man up and kiss her when the time seems good. (But don't' wait too long or she'll get confused and think that you're her new gay knitting friend. You have intentions, let her know them.) A lot of geeks fool themselves into not acting on the physical side, by saying things like 'I'm respecting her boundaries by letting her pick the level of physicality...' Blah blah blah, most (not all) women are taught to not initiate things like a first kiss - they are supposed to flirt and encourage you to act, but not to actually do it. If you don't, you'll both end up waiting.
At this point, I leave the rest up to you.
OK, so this seems like pretty basic advice, but all of this is a specific counter to something that would block your standard socially awkward introvert:
- Not starting a conversation. (Just talk to her!)
- Not asking for a date. (Coffee is a date, but isn't scary.)
- Putting too much pressure on the first date. (You're just meeting someone, not assessing their potential as a life partner)
- Not calling her back. (Why do people ask for numbers they won't use?)
- Being over the top, or too generic in the second date. (Pick specific, interesting, encounters. And yes, your selection is a test.)
- Scared of physical encounter. (Touching is good.)
- Not getting past the friend barrier. (Once you are kissing someone, they have a good idea of where the relationship is going.)
Thankfully, the Unitarian Universalist churches don't require you to believe anything about Jesus except that either he (or whoever made up what he said) had some pretty good ideas about how to treat people. They tend to be very inclusive of atheists as well as theists of all stripes.
I am officially gone from
Exactly! The correct solution is to go to a flea market, find an old computer, put it in her room, install OpenBSD on it, throw Apache, MySQL and PHP on top of that, install Drupal, install the Calendar and Date modules, set up DynDNS to point to her new calendar server, sync her cell phone to the server using iCal, and make sure that you both have user accounts on the machine so you can both keep track of each other. I mean, duh. :-)