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Richard Stallman Says No To Mono
twitter writes "There's been a lot of fuss about mono lately. After SCO and MS suing over FAT patents, you would think avoiding anything MS would be a matter of common sense. RMS now steps into the fray to warn against a serious mistake: 'Debian's decision to include Mono in the default installation, for the sake of Tomboy which is an application written in C#, leads the community in a risky direction. It is dangerous to depend on C#, so we need to discourage its use. .... This is not to say that implementing C# is a bad thing. ... [writing and using applications in mono] is taking a gratuitous risk.'" Update: 06/27 20:22 GMT by T : Read on below for one Mono-eschewing attempt at getting the (excellent) Tomboy's functionality, via a similar program called Gnote. Update: 06/27 21:07 GMT by T: On the other side of the coin, reader im_thatoneguy writes "Jo Shields, a Mono Developer, has published an article on 'Why Mono Doesn't Suck,' why it is not a threat to FOSS, why it is desirable to developers and why it should be included in Ubuntu by default."
LastGuyonEarth writes "Gnote was started on April 2009 by Gnome developer Hubert Figuiere, known also for his work on Abiword. The goal of Gnote is to provide a Free Software implementation of Tomboy that doesn't rely on Mono. The ultimate goal is to replace Tomboy in an effort to make Gnome and GNU/Linux distributions non-dependant on Novell's implementation of Microsoft's .NET platform. For our testing purposes, I installed Gnote 0.5.1 on Ubuntu Jaunty through a personal PPA, but I would love to see it officially packaged in the near future."
I don't get why Stallman keeps trying to influence what others choose to do with the software? Why does he feel the need to keep pushing his socialist-community-commune-communistic-leftist software agenda when it's one of the most successful models out there? I just don't get it. He's not the only voice and if they choose to add the "evil" mono to their distribution of Linix that's their choice not his. I just don't get why he keeps meddling in the affairs of others. Doesn't he have his own GNU/Linux/Hurd distribution anyway? Oh, right it's not that popular... oh well... I guess he just needs the attention or something.
I see a spectrum of various forms of open software from the locked up tight GPL crowd on through the truly free *BSD crowd to the awesomely free public domain crowd. There is room for everyone's choices just don't try to force them on everyone else.
When I used to use Bulletin Board systems to download software most of it was in the public domain. Now evil software licenses like GPL have ruined the public domain. It's quite sad to impose so many restrictions on free software.
Mono is dangerous because it isn't "DotGNU Portable.NET". In otherwords, it is dangerous because it wasn't created by the FSF.
That's the point. He doesn't "have to." Every techie (possibly except him, though I doubt it) understood this years ago. By saying this now, though, he gets attention.
Stallman feeds from attention.
I don't know if this is overreaction. But I can certainly agree with him under some circumstances.
1) Is there a licensing concern using the C# language, or any of the compiler technology? Specifically, are there any software patents that could be leveraged against the open source community for using the C# implementation that could result in a massive court action? I do not know the details of any agreements (if they exist) but knowing Microsoft's stance on OSS, there is certainly potential for future abuse. Something along the lines of "Use of C# on any non-Microsoft platform is henceforth prohibited."
2) Is C# considered an open standard? Secondly, is the specification controlled by Microsoft directly? Or, is it influenced by the communities? Java is a similar monster, but it's been my observation that Sun (Oracle) is a willing participant in the Linux/Unix space so it hasn't been such a problem. An Example here would be something like, "C# compilers and applications now depend on a library that is currently available on Windows platform, any reverse engineering or decompilation or efforts to replicate this library will result in criminal penalties."
I'm certainly hesitant to use C# in anything simply because I don't trust Microsoft. I admit it openly. It doesn't mean I won't use what they make, and I think a healthy distrust isn't always a bad thing. If I end up using anything based on C#, I'll keep it in the Windows space.
Well those people weren't working with Microsoft. It is not personal it is only business. You need to remember that. And at the same time you can be competing and working with the same company/group.
For example we my company is a major reseller of software of a particular company (who isn't Microsoft). However our customers want a lot of customization to the product. The parent company who we purchase the software from will be more then happy to do the alterations, however we do it, because we feel we can get it done faster and sell it cheaper then that company does. This company knows we do this and will compete with us for that business. However they have not even attempted to try to cut our discounts or advantage of reselling their software or tried to stop us from making such modifications. You can compete and still be civil to each other. If hard competition where there is name calling, it is just business not personal.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Could you come up with real specific examples? Because all I see, year after year, is Mono progressing. Mono's problems began when Miguel de Icaza grokked Microsoft's CLI technology (Common Language Infrastructure) and called for what it is: a great fucking idea.
Add to that the fact the M$ published the spec under a recognized standards body and that was the point at which the zealot's heads began to swell until the point of explosion.
Being the user of many different *nix systems, I hate to say it, but we're so behind the curve on so many things. Don't be surprised if, in the next 5 years, the exploits begin to show show proportionally much more on Linux than on Windows, giving us a very bad name (already we're out of the netbook market because of stupid handling/sloppy programming and interfaces that were a mental case). There's a whole team of top-notch researchers at Microsoft, while in Unix-land, many are in a 70s programming mindset.
Go ahead, dudes, mod me down. I gots lots of sky-high karma.
Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
what does RMS use on his personal computers in his home, basement boiler room or wherever he lives?
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
if i said i didn't believe in blood transfusions, would that color your impression of any medical ethics opinions i might have?
lets be intellectually honest here: anyone who doesn't browse the web is completely out of touch with the main thrust of anything and everything computer related in the last 15 years
you say its not related. i'm saying it is
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Everything is bad and evil going on. Does he ever turn off his soap box and see the good things in the world. He had his time and used to be relevant in the past, now his rants are getting old and tired. This is bad that is bad... Chill man!
There is a difference between Vigilance and Paranoia. You don't cross the line between good and bad by walking towards that line.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Ahh, I see the problem. You are talking about religion, I am talking about computing. My mistake.
Yes. If you Windows weenies want a synchophantic windows site then go any of the pc/windows users site out there where they fawn over the latest transparency in wordpad. Let the rest of us vent in peace, kthanxbai.
MS can be an acronym for many things. Multiple sclerosis is usually abbreviated like this, for instance. It's the initials of coach Mike Sanford and of governor Mark Sanford. Et multiple cetera.
M$, on the other hand, is almost universally recognized as an acronym for Microsoft. It's more easily distinguished, it has less entropy.
Frankly, I don't understand why people become so angry at this use of M$. Are they trying to negate the fact that Microsoft makes a lot of money? Why should the association of a dollar sign to a commercial corporation be insulting?
It's easier to understand, there is no logical reason for it to be considered offensive. M$ should be the preferred way to identify Microsoft in a short form.
So... Microsoft having potential patent claims against your free compiler doesn't bother you? How about even using a "portable" language defined and controlled by Microsoft? Sure, if you only care about Windows, use C#. But Microsoft has a long history of jerking around standards that it controls to make them impossible for competitors to adopt. Consider Internet Explorer, and all the pain we have to go through to be compatible with that beast. How about Microsoft's attack on Open Document Format, and it's insanely huge and complex competing standard which only Microsoft implements? I think RMS has a valid point, and deserves consideration. This is a good place to air such discussions.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
Well, I'm a guy who was in diapers about the same time as RMS, and I don't see how a guy who has never worked a real job and has no wife or children can be so damn busy. I don't know about you younger folks, but most people of our generation would consider him a bum. I'll take him seriously when he "graduates" from his student life.
Really?
We're referring to a convicted monoply that made enormous amounts of money through illegal means. Their figurehead is (on the odd average week) the world's richest man.
Although late PR efforts have caused him to be more widely known for his philanthropy, the damage Bill Gates has caused to the world economy (by destroying competition in a cluster of humanity's most vital industries) is hard to even estimate; probably on a par with the great robber barons of the 19th century.
Let's not even talk about the quality of their products.
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
I've been burned by Microsoft often enough that I know I don't want to go there again. And I have not once been disappointed that failing to go with their stuff.
OOXML is evidence that Microsoft cannot be prevented from abusing standards the get involved with, especially standards they sponsor.
Besides, C# is just like VB, solving the wrong problems, helping people use the wrong solutions. I'm not a fan of Java, but C# is definitely several more leaps in the wrong directions.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.