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If You Live By Free, You Will Die By Free

Hugh Pickens writes "Internet entrepreneur Mark Cuban writes that the problem with companies who have built their business around Free is that the more success you have in delivering free, the more expensive it is to stay at the top. '"They will be Facebook to your Myspace, or Myspace to your Friendster or Google to your Yahoo," writes Cuban. "Someone out there with a better idea will raise a bunch of money, give it away for free, build scale and charge less to reach the audience."' Cuban says that even Google, who lives and dies by free, knows that 'at some point your Black Swan competitor will appear and they will kick your ass' and that is exactly why Google invests in everything and anything they possibly can that they believe can create another business they can depend on in the future searching for the 'next big Google thing.' Cuban says that for any company that lives by Free, their best choice is to run the company as profitably as possible, focusing only on those things that generate revenue and put cash in the bank. '"When you succeed with Free, you are going to die by Free. Your best bet is to recognize where you are in your company's lifecycle and maximize your profits rather than try to extend your stay at the top," writes Cuban. "Like every company in the free space, your lifecycle has come to its conclusion. Don't fight it. Admit it. Profit from it."'"

29 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. This Is Madness by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone out there with a better idea ...

    You mean I have to compete against innovation?!

    ... will raise a bunch of money, give it away for free, build scale and charge less to reach the audience ...

    And my competitors can undercut me?!

    This is madness! I demand protection against people trying to steal my customers with a better service/product and lower prices! Oh well, thank god I'm too big of a player for the government to let me go under.

    Be warned fellow citizens, in my lifetime I have seen market after market reach the endstate of an American capitalism: protected stagnation.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:This Is Madness by sys.stdout.write · · Score: 5, Informative
      Indeed! My favorite part was:

      run the company as profitably as possible, focusing only on those things that generate revenue and put cash in the bank

      Companies should focus on making money?! Outrageous!

    2. Re:This Is Madness by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're being overly optimistic. We don't protect stagnation we protect and encourage failure. The US government tinkers in the economy more than most other free nations do, and it's almost always in the form of bailouts, protecting failing enterprises, insuring markets without demanding regulator authority. It's been going on for several decades and it's led us from one bubble to the next, and it won't stop for at least one more boom bust cycle.

      What he's really complaining about is that there's a competitor that's out there forcing the price he can get to roughly approximate the marginal cost of production. Which is shocking for somebody that presumably believes in capitalism. Shocking because a competitive market pushes prices to just above the marginal cost of output.

      OSS is a good example in software, credit unions in banking and hopefully a set of large scale co-op health insurers in the insurance industry. Corporations hate them because they have to compete on both price and quality. If there really were nothing to it they wouldn't be trying so hard to kill it.

    3. Re:This Is Madness by wjousts · · Score: 5, Informative

      And my competitors can undercut me?!

      Actually, if your services are free to the customer, in order to undercut you your competitors will have to pay his customers for using his service.

      Actually, the mistake you are making is thinking that you are the customer from companies like Google or Facebook. You are not, you are the product. The advertisers are the customers.

    4. Re:This Is Madness by CannonballHead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US government tinkers in the economy more than most other free nations do

      It does? You mean the more socalistic a country gets, the less it tinkers with the economy?

      I'm a conservative and I don't like the U.S. "tinkering" with the economy. But from what I understood, most other free countries tend to be more liberal (significantly) than the U.S. (and a lot of liberals in the U.S. complain about that. Hence the huge push for a national healthcare system at the moment?). And more liberal countries tend to want to regulate the market more. And regulate other things, too.

      I'd be interested in seeing some backup for the claim that the U.S. tinkers more with the economy.

    5. Re:This Is Madness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      One example is Canada. During 'normal operation' Canada regulates its economy a bit more than the US. But that very regulation keeps things reasonably stable. So when the economic crisis hit, the Canadian economy suffered but was remarkably stable. No Canadian banks failed. (Regulations that were in-place prevented many of the things the US financial institutions were doing...) The Canadian government did intervene because of the crisis, but the magnitude of the intervention was small compared to what we've seen in the US (after scaling for the obvious differences in the sizes of the economies).

      So the point was that by having constant oversight, it wasn't necessary to engage in massive amounts of intervention (bailouts, subsidies, new regulatory frameworks, etc.) during dire times. So, on average, Canada intervenes in its economy less, because it doesn't need to engage in these massive interventions. (Of course this point could be debated depending on how you scale things like occasional massive bailouts compared to constant low-level regulation.) Despite its support of the free market, the US doesn't let the free market run wild when push comes to shove. In fact the US intervenes substantially.

      (This point, among others, is discussed in this interview.)

    6. Re:This Is Madness by tb3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He became one of the world's richest men by sheer blind luck, according to that Wikipedia article. Broadcast.com was just another over-valued dotcom company until Yahoo came along and paid $5.9 billion for it. Cuban was just smart enough to take the money and run. Look at his other business ventures after broadcast.com. They're all massive dogs.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

  2. Live free, die hard by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Like every company [*deleted*], your lifecycle has come to its conclusion. Don't fight it. Admit it. Profit from it."

    Fixed that for you. No business survives beyond their normal lifetime in the market. This is particularly true of technology companies which are forced to constantly reinvent themselves or become obsolete. While companies who sell a product can sometimes extend that product out a bit longer thanks to support contracts and BS marketing techniques, this is not sustainable.

    What you end up with is the slow death spiral that was the hallmark of companies like SGI, SCO, and Novell. These companies followed the same business model for too long, slowly bled marketshare, and eventually reinvented themselves at the last minute, made a deal with the devil, or went out in a blaze of glory.

    The lesson is simple: No matter how much of a cash cow your current product line is, you need to be investing in the R&D to compete in the next generation of products. Otherwise your competitors will get there first and make you ancient history.

    1. Re:Live free, die hard by MyLongNickName · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Tell that to this company.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    2. Re:Live free, die hard by jeffshoaf · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think Jobs must have sold his soul to the devil.

      I think it was his liver...

      --
      Putting the "anal" back into "analyst"...
  3. Google by hobbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google doesn't live by free. It lives by selling advertising.

    --
    "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
  4. Isn't this true of almost all businesses? by Palestrina · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether you are selling automobiles or donuts, there is going to be competition, and you are only as good as your last quarterly earnings report. In any case, competition and barriers to entry has more to do with the nature of the technology and lock-in and lock-out factors like propriety interfaces and patents than it is concerned with the business model. Maybe the point is just that with a free model, you have less room for error in your strategy?

  5. From Mark Cuban? Take it with a grain of salt by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So he built broadcast.com, sold it to Yahoo! and made a ton of money: what else has Cuban done? I mean really?

    I tend to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

  6. STFU, Cuban. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You got lucky because Yahoo was dumb and made you a billionaire at the height of the dotcom bubble. There are no remnants of the service you founded anywhere on the Internet. You are the equivalent of a lottery winner and have zero credibility.

    You are a stupid fratboy who got rich thanks to an ill-timed power grab by an unwise corporation, not a respected voice whom anyone cares about. Please enjoy your "broadcast.com" (lol) windfall in private and stop talking in the presence of others who might report your idiocy. Thank you.

    1. Re:STFU, Cuban. by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Insightful

      AC is right. Cuban's success is at least partially due to serendipity, I would argue that is mostly due to that.

      It's not envy that people hate on Mark Cuban. Because many of us respect people who built up their fortunes, even if we hate the things they do. Examples would be Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, George Soros, etc.

      That said, Mark must have some skill in the negotiation room to have sold his company. The ability to market your business to another business is a pretty unique skill. But if he did that trick today he would be in the same position as many of my friends who have done that. Have enough money in the bank to support themselves for a couple years until they sell their next start-up.

      Winning it big on one shot is not as impressive as consistent success to me.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  7. I disagree. by apodyopsis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I disagree.

    I think that when any technology - be that DVD, FaceBook, Internet Explorer - reaches a mass audience and is perceived to be good enough to meet the users needs it is more or less impossible to dislodge even when there are technically superior products out there.

    The only way a new product will ever dislodge a entrenched rival is when they offer something unique and compelling or are readily interchangeble with the old one.

    I kind of get what they are saying, but I see more evidence of entrenched mass market products that are seen to have reached an acceptable level of functionality and ease of use.

  8. Revenue?? by twmcneil · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wonder if he'll remember to include a revenue source in his plan this time.

    --
    "The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
  9. WE live in an art economy. by tjstork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    WE live in an art economy. That is, at the consumer level, the systems that we use are often judged by their novelty and their entertainment value. I would think most social networking sights ultimately wind up as a sort of a performance art piece, where we are the performers. We get bored with it, and move on. To say that you need to fund R&D is almost besides the point. Social sites need to have R&D, for sure, but what they really need is insight and hitmakers. You have to run them almost like record companies and make stars of the designers, changing things every time based upon the new view of the artist.

    --
    This is my sig.
  10. Which country do you live in? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ixed that for you. No business survives beyond their normal lifetime in the market.

    Well. that's clearly not the case.

    Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JP Morgan etc etc etc. If you have a friend in the government, you can get them to tax the people to guarantee your profits.

     

    --
    Deleted
  11. If anything, he's got it backwards by Zigurd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As others have pointed out, free online services are no more susceptible to a Black Swan Competitor, or even an ordinary competitor, than any other business. If there is a distinction, it is likely to be that free Web services are especially governed by first mover advantage and category domination such that they are less in danger from Black Swans than, say, a trucking company or a chain of coffee shops.

  12. So.....just like all businesses by imgod2u · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is different than any other business.....how?
    The longer something remains in the market, the more the profit for that item approaches zero. Even paid service. The only time this isn't the case is either in a monopolized market or when government steps in. That's why companies in the free market have to constantly innovate and come up with new things that the competitor doesn't have. This notion that any business model can guarantee that you'll make money forever once you've come up with one idea is a myth.

  13. Taking advise from Cuban by C_Kode · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm not sure I would take to much advise from Mark Cuban. First, he is a hard worker, but with Broadcast.com he was in the right place at the right time. Beyond that he hasn't exactly made a lot of great desciions. The major investment into HDnet hasn't been that fruitful and the major investment into Register.com was a debacle. He traded a rising star point guard for a bad apple 35 year old point guard. Today, he just spent $25M on resigning that bad apple point guard (now 36 years old) that isn't half the player he onces was.

    I'll pass on advise from Mark Cuban.

  14. Read more of his blog, good sir by orthancstone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Companies should focus on making money?! Outrageous!

    I know what you quoted seems like an asinine statement, but if you knew the full context you'd understand the point.

    Cuban's been ranting extra hard this year on YouTube, labeling it as an eventual giant bust because the model will eventually fail without profit. He's saying that people, being so used to FREE content, will feel outraged by the concept of being charged to distributed their mundane crap videos online. Thus someone will come along with a better model and replace it (he's right, it is the nature of the Internet, and only the green people who have only been surfing it for a few years now fail to realize this...they don't have the years of knowledge that accompanies seeing sites/concepts being formed and replaced by the next greatest thing).

    He's lashing out against these "free" practices because they are extremely difficult to break out of. Once you offer the free content to the people, they demand it stay free. You say "Companies should focus on making money?! Outrageous!" and he's responding, "How will they make it if they don't base their model on that in the first place?"

    1. Re:Read more of his blog, good sir by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Charging a small fee to upload videos is the key to improving YouTube. The reason people upload so many "mundane crap videos" is because there is not a fee. People who are proud of good work would be willing to pay a buck or two to upload their video. The people that upload their friend burping would hesitate to waste money their money.

      Careful with that. The people uploading videos are the ones providing YouTube with lots of free content. Yes, much- probably most- of it is crap, but from a financial point of view, that isn't a problem in itself because the cost of *storing* it is likely fairly insignificant on a per-video basis.

      And storage isn't the financial problem with sites like YouTube- bandwidth is. So unless those crap videos are getting lots of viewers- and I suspect they aren't- they're a very minor issue, if not a complete irrelevance.

      You could, of course, charge people for the bandwidth their video being viewed "cost" YouTube. Which would penalise the producers of popular (and likely good) content, and discourage people from uploading. Not a good idea.

      The key to improving YouTube is more likely improving the rating/searching facilities so that the obvious crap falls under and stays under the radar.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  15. Re:Crazy old witch by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yup. And scientists gave us nuclear bombs

    Which proves that they know what they're talking about, unlike economists. If economics, sociology, etc were anything at all like physics, there would be no poverty or hunger.

    Wall Street is just a big corrupt casino. You don't invest in stocks, you gamble on them.

  16. Re:Crazy old witch by Truth+is+life · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is no luck, just being alert and open to opportunities, having the courage to act on them, and having the intelligence to bend them to your benefit..

    This is untrue. Of course there's luck, it's by definition what occurs that you cannot control or influence. For example, if you had lined up a deal to sell your company for a huge amount of money but then the economy crashes around you and the deal falls through...that's bad luck. Or if you're a brilliant engineer whose ideas would be worth millions...but you were born in the Soviet Union. Or your company develops a revolutionary new product...and the lead engineer gets hit by a bus. Luck controls the availability of those opportunities in the first place, and (sometimes) their success.

  17. Re:Good luck with that! by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Informative

    1) Be generous
    2) Create trust
    3) Scale out
    4) Betray trust
    5) Profit

    It's called "Selling out". Also known under such words as "Betrayal" and "Traitor".

    Yes, this is a good way to make money.

    It's such a good way to make money, it really ought to make us re-evaluate this whole "money" concept as an organizational structure. Betrayal should not systematically lead to power. It should lead to death at the hands of your peers, or if you're a sympathetic sort, it should lead to disenfranchisement and a permanent spot at the bottom of societies totem pole.

    How about "If you live off the backs of slaves, you will die by the hands of slaves"?

    Yeah, that one holds a lot of appeal.

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  18. Re:free markets by TheLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > In a free market none of these companies would have been bailed out. Instead they would have been forced to declare bankruptcy

    But which country has this mythical free market? The one that has a thriving market in flying unicorns? Or is it the one where legislators and regulators can be bought and sold? ;)

    Reminds me a bit of those "True Believer arguments". e.g. "A True Believer would never do X" where X is something bad. Looking through that "lens" you'll find that the real world has rather few "True Believers", and you don't really learn much about what the True Believers actually believe in.

    Anyway, to me what is important is not whether a market is free or non-free, but whether the market is well-regulated or not. And we should focus on how to have a well-regulated market, not on how free it is. Quality not quantity[1].

    There have been arguments that the regulators should be people from the industry, since they know the industry well etc, and that's why it's ok and inevitable to have the "ex-CEO of Company X" end up regulating "Company X" and stuff like that. Somehow I'm still not convinced by those arguments (especially given the observed results ;) ).

    [1] Similarly there's always this popular debate about big vs small government, I find that rather stupid since what seems far more important is the quality of the government, not the quantity of it. But in a democracy I guess that's ultimately determined by the general quality of the voters.

    --
  19. Yes it must, sorry... by denzacar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Betrayal should not systematically lead to power.

    Betrayal is actually just moral judgment of the action - which if unfavorable to the object of the action, said object considers unfair.
    What it is really is simply possession of more information than you are willing to share, possibly favorable to you or someone else, with possibility of action or lack thereof attached.

    No malice is needed. You simply know more at the time and you fail to share the info.
    You fail to mention to your friend that the milk in your fridge is 5 weeks old before he drinks from the container. Instant betrayal.
    You didn't want to do it, you were not even in the room. Your unconscious inaction alone led to your betrayal of your friend.
    Not a very serious case, but quite true.

    Information is power. Betrayal is just a matter of moral judgment on the use of it.

     
    Americans have betrayed their legal ruler and then fought a war when they were faced with their actions.
    So did Russians. And French. And many others...
    Heck, one of the great stepping stones of democracy and human rights was when Brits betrayed their king and at the tip of the blade forced him to sign a legal document giving them previously absent freedoms.

    See? Good betrayal. Favorable to the masses. Leading to power.
    Still betrayal though.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens