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Bethesda Releases Daggerfall For Free

On Thursday, Bethesda announced that for the 15th anniversary of the Elder Scrolls series, they were releasing The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall for free. They aren't providing support for the game anymore, but they posted a detailed description of how to get the game running in DOSBox. Fans of the series can now easily relive the experience of getting completely lost in those enormous dungeons. Save often.

29 of 80 comments (clear)

  1. Nice nice nice nice... by Datamonstar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... well not really, since this game is soooo old, but still its a huge HUGE gameworld. Really. It's big. Can't wait to play it. It makes Oblivion look like Sesame Street.

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
    1. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by gbarules2999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Randomly generated HUGE isn't nearly as good as designed small. Back to Morrowind, folks.

    2. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by TibbonZero · · Score: 5, Interesting

      SOME of the bugs were fixed, but unfortunately it will still a super buggy and sometimes unstable game. I'm glad to see them releasing it, but of course source would have been nice (so we could fix the bugs on it!) I loved this game at the same time. It was a little more hardcore than Oblivion in many ways. Big stuff would just kill you (no equal leveling) and if you were vampire you lasted pretty much NO time during the day. Climbing everything, as buggy as it was- was pretty awesome too. Some stuff however was just outright glitched. It was the type of thing that drove me initially CRAZY when I was 11 playing it, because I'd spend hours just walking sometimes to 'see what was out there' on some islands or whatever. This game proved that bigger isnt' always better, because its impossible to populate everything with interesting stuff.

      --
      Tibbon
      tibbon.com
    3. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Informative

      I didn't play it when it came out, but I tried it today... and the interface is so sluggish as to be painful. My computer isn't totally up-to-date, but I'm pretty sure it can handle 486-level material pretty easily. It's very distracting, much less responsive than Ultima Underworld on a 386 (yes, I'm speaking from experience here). Don't think I'll be doing any more of it.

    4. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by sowth · · Score: 3, Funny

      For an assembly programmer, the binaries are the source code! Mwahahaha!

    5. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by sowth · · Score: 3, Informative

      From what I understand, dosbox emulates the CPU as well. DOSemu should run it at your CPU's speed, but I haven't used it since Linux kernel 2.0.x days. Lately I have thought about getting some of my old DOS games going, but haven't put much effort into it. Though DOSemu seems broken on 2.6--I get "LOWRAM mmap: Invalid argument / Segmentation fault" It could be a permissions problem though...(haven't tried it as root yet) The page says it was last updated in 2007, so maybe it was updated to 2.6?

      This post from the Arch Linux forums may help: kernel 2.6.30 upgrade causes dosemu to segfault. It seems dosemu doesn't work with .30 but .31 version from git does work? Looks like they have a configuration suggestion too...

      Then again, you may have problems with speed. Quite a while back, I tried Syndicate Wars, and it ran at about 10x speed. Way too fast. I think DOSbox solved that by emulating the CPU, so everything the game sees works like it did on an old computer. Though since it is emulating, it takes many processing cycles to do on emulated processing cycle, which means your 2.0 GHz computer may only be able to run it at say (just a wild guess), the same speed as a 100 MHz machine. Probably not even that. So I don't see a 1996 game working too well.

      I would guess the easiest way would be to use an older computer and install FreeDOS or something on it. You know, that 900 MHz one collecting dust in your closet. Then you don't have to worry about emulating crap. ;-) But then you may still run into the super speed issue. This is partly why old computers had a "turbo" switch--some programs assumed the processor was at a specific speed. Some programs assumed the MIPS / clock speed was constant. 486 was below 1 MIPS/MHz, Pentium was about 2 MIPS/MHz, todays CPUs are probably much higher before you even get to the multiple cores. I think some just detect if it is a 486 or pentium and do their calculations. They don't know anything about newer CPUs, so it doesn't work...

    6. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by sowth · · Score: 2, Informative

      This page has a chart of estimated speeds for a given host machine's CPU using DOSBox.

    7. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by Clock+Nova · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wish they'd release the source for that. That game is so poorly optimized it still drags on modern hardware. Add a few mods that include NPCs or lots of fancy scripts and -pow- . . . instant slideshow.

      Maybe in another 10 years. Sigh.

      --
      There they were, sitting in the van with all those dials, and the cat was dead. -V. Marchetti, CIA
    8. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by makomk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Though DOSemu seems broken on 2.6--I get "LOWRAM mmap: Invalid argument / Segmentation fault" It could be a permissions problem though...(haven't tried it as root yet)

      Recent kernels don't let you mmap the first 64k of address space by default for security reasons, and this breaks stuff like DOSemu. You probably need to "echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" as root.

    9. Re:Nice nice nice nice... by chonglibloodsport · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You guys need to get up to speed on your DOSBox knowledge.

      The more recent versions of DOSBox use a dynarec backend. This is way faster than the old backend and has the added benefit of not requiring you to mess around with cycle numbers for every game.

  2. Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know what would be really cool?

    The source.

    Not to say I am ungrateful for the release ... it would just be really cool to be able to try to extend the game, breath some new life into it and such.

    1. Re:Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know what would be really really cool?

      Merging it with Quake source and making some kind of Quakkerfall.

    2. Re:Source? by Aliotroph · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed. Drives me crazy how they don't release the source to these things. On the other hand, I suspect they really don't want to put in the work required to remove all the licensed code they probably used. DaggerXL appeared recently. It's a project to recreate the engine and game code from scratch. I'll be keeping an eye on it. A source release would probably help him along though. Getting the dungeons to render isn't too hard for him, but the AI and giant tangle of game logic sounds like a nightmare.

    3. Re:Source? by keith_nt4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By coincidence I've just spent more hours than I'd care to admit adding mods to Oblivion. Hopefully I won't get sick of that before I actually PLAY Oblivion.

      There are so many mods for oblivion to switch everything up, change the leveling system, the UI, the monsters, the mounts (like a flying dragon), the magic system, add lots of weapons/armor/accessories/towns/islands and everything else I don't think a console player would even recognize it. It does take some patience to set it all up (lets just say OBMM is your friend). So many dependencies and compatibility issues to keep track of it's like "RPM Hell" from linux (back when that was an issue). And Wrye Bash? Don't get me started...

      Anyway I hope someone figures out some way to adapt a version of this game to Oblivion. That would be cool.

      --
      "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
    4. Re:Source? by Elshar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've played through all of Morrowind (Before the expansions), and Oblivion when it came out too. Unless you actually played all the way through DF before the other ones, I can see where you wouldn't really understand the differences.

       

      For me, the main difference was the randomly generated towns. They weren't completely random, but they were /different/ every time you started a new game and then stayed the same for that entire play through. Also, you randomly uncovered points of interest through conversations and quests that could be re-visited if you wanted to, but were also tied to your current game. You could also properly buy houses, ships, horses and carts (And they weren't introduced via a patch/mod either, they actually planned for this). There were bookstores which contained literally libraries of interesting books, pamphlets, papers and scrolls. I know they exist in Oblivion too, but it's not the same. In oblivion you go up to a vendor and tell him "Sell!" "Buy!" and get a long list of his inventory. In DF you walked up to the bookshelf and browsed the contents, taking the items you wanted into your inventory.

       

      There's other things like that. The magic/enchant system in DF is way superior to MW/OB's that it's not really comparable. Playing with them in those two is like playing with miniature model trains/planes whereas in DF you were playing with full-sized scale working replicas.

       

      Even the people in the game were random, you couldn't always expect the same npcs to be holding the same positions with the same attitudes every play through. Each game forced you to explore it, and truly felt alive and not some scripted paradise like the other two. I'm not saying it didn't have it's flaws, but I just don't see how a few mods (And I have played with quite a few mods for MW/OB) can re-create or surpass what I really enjoyed about it (Which was no two games being the same).

    5. Re:Source? by Aliotroph · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The AI really is basically non-existent. The trick is he wants to replicate the behaviour of the original game. Getting comparable AI won't be hard but he's going for a game that plays like the original.

      There are things he can use, but mostly for stuff like displaying the resources and cells. There are a few of these with code available.

      I'm surprised the easily moddable graphical MUD idea hasn't happened (to my knowledge). One of the biggest downsides of MMOs is the lack of user content. I don't want any game on the scale of an MMO. Well, it can have the physical scale (like Daggerfall), but it would be fun to just have something to crawl dungeons with my bro and a couple friends.

  3. Rest well this night -- by ElrondHubbard · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "-- for tomorrow, you sail for the kingdom... of Daggerfall." Many, many enjoyable hours I spent playing this game when I could (should) have been working on my thesis. Chief complaint: The repetitive dungeons, stitched together seemingly near-randomly from prefabbed bits and pieces that were repeated endlessly. Still, a great game.

    --
    "The deep-fried Mars bar is a symptom of a wider crisis." -- Nutritionist Ann Ralph, on the Scottish diet
    1. Re:Rest well this night -- by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Halt! Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Hal-Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt!Halt! Ha-Halt!
      Halt!Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Halt! H-H-H-H-Halt! Halt! Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt! Hal-Ha-Halt! Halt! Halt!Halt! Haaaaaa-alt! Ha-Halt!

      Fun times indeed.

  4. Someone set up a torrent! by MrMista_B · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone set up a torrent!

    Because at 2.5k/sec, I think we're about to break their servers.

    1. Re:Someone set up a torrent! by Androktasie · · Score: 4, Informative
      Fileshack has a fast mirror of Daggerfall currently downloading at 200kB/sec+.

      Also, Slickdeals broke their servers long before the Slashdot effect took hold ^_^

    2. Re:Someone set up a torrent! by skeeto · · Score: 2, Informative
  5. Re:free by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >>The game was so buggy it isn't worth free

    To be honest, it got better.

    After 40 patches or so.

    Honestly, it's better than either Morrowind or Oblivion. The sheer amount of twinkery you can do with the custom classes and magic item creation is just ridiculous and awesome.

  6. Re:free by WaXHeLL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The game was almost unplayable without patches.

    But after patches, it was great. It was like the ultimate free-form rpg possible.

    Custom classes (with some very unbalanced setups), Custom Spells, Custom Magical Items, etc.

    I think i spent so much time doing everything else, that I only got like 1/2 way into the main quest after like 200 hours of play.

    --
    The troll with karma.
  7. The only problem is, by aronzak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's impossible to play and have a hope of finishing unless you're power gaming. None of the main classes actually seem like their made so you could play as them. Unless you already have detailed knowledge of the game, there's not much point in trying to finish it.

    That said, there's a feature in the latest patch that allows you to teleport to major areas in dungeons. Don't know how you could play without it. I mean, did anyone ever manage to survive an encounter with an ancient lich or an ancient vampire or a powerful daedra lord?

    Then there's also the issue of all the randomly generated dungeons looking like octopuses mating, and that there are way, way too many fetch the foo quests. "Please, I'll help you with your quest to rid Dagerfall of the vengeful spirit, but could you please fetch me my adamantium underpants? I think I left them in a nearby dungeon infested with monsters..."

    1. Re:The only problem is, by cgomezr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I completed the game in its time, without any cheating or teleporting. And without even applying cheap character creation strategies like certain race-resistance combinations (I did choose the constraint not to wear leather and chain armour, but those are features and should be obvious by the second time you create a character). So yes, it is difficult, but definitely not impossible.

      People nowadays are too spoiled and used to easy games. The thing about ancient liches and vampires was fighting a lot of fights, clearing a lot of dungeons and collecting a lots of items and spells until you were experienced and equipped enough to fight them. And once you could do that, it felt like a truly epic fight. Not like in Oblivion, where enemies are just scaled so you can fight them.

      I advise everyone to play this game. In my opinion it is the best CRPG of all time (and I've played most known CRPG's since the times of Might and Magic I and Ultima I).

  8. Re:DOSBox install instructions by Aragorn+DeLunar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Windows users can also make a shortcut to launch the game directly:

    Target: "C:\Program Files\DOSBox-0.73\dosbox.exe" c:\games\magic\magic.exe

    I still have my original manuals for Master of Magic, plus the 2" thick Prima Strategy Guide, chock full of tables and calculations. If ever a game needed to be open-sourced, this is the one, because I'd hate for anyone to have to re-code all those game rules again.

    --
    Cynicism, like dogmatism, can be an excuse for intellectual laziness. - Susan Shirk
  9. Totally Agree by popo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This game was actually challenging. These days game designers are so worried that you won't see 100% of their work, that they make the game easy.

    As a result, most games today are more "sandbox" than they are "game" and the whole thing just gets boring.

    I wish Bethesda would make another extremely challenging game. They need to stop worrying so much about easing players into a nice, unchallenging bath -- and give players more depth, more complexity and more challenge.

    Somewhere along the line, Bethesda concluded that console gamers are too stupid to play games like Daggerfall. This is what has ruined their more recent games. While they're still enjoyable -- they're not the kind of thing that drives you to know what's beyond the next mountain... and to spend a day figuring out how to equip yourself in order to get there...

    --
    ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
  10. Re:Good Memories by cgomezr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I'm one of those old school fans and I think Daggerfall was clearly the best game in the saga, and it has been getting worse since then.

    Morrowind (Elder Scrolls III) is a very good game, and definitely worth buying. It still has the flexibility and freedom that made Daggerfall great, as well as a complex plot with lots of factions that you can join. However, the world design philosophy is different. The dungeons are no longer so huge and randomly generated, all the map is crafted by hand. This means that there is more attention to detail, but anyway I preferred the sheer hugeness of Daggerfall. Compared to that, Morrowind felt just small (it's still bigger than most games from other franchises, though). The character creation system was also not as deep as Daggerfall's, and we hardcore CRPG fans like our character creation systems. And the immersion, although very good, was not as good as Daggerfall because Daggerfall's soundtrack must be one of the best videogame soundtracks of all time (despite being plain MIDI). So my personal evaluation of Morrowind is: very good game, very respectable, but quite worse than Daggerfall at least for me (I'm aware that other people prefer the hand-crafted attention to detail to the vastness of the randomly-generated world, and I can understand that opinion, but I know plenty of CRPG's that have that attention to detail and Daggerfall was giving me something different, that no other CRPG had, and Morrowind abandoned).

    As for Oblivion (Elder Scrolls IV), unfortunately, I think it's just crap. I'm really sad to have to say this, because I had an enormous respect for the Elder Scrolls saga, but I'm afraid they just screwed up with this one. The graphics are impressive, the world is really nice, but the game just feels bland and uninteresting. And the reason for this can pretty much be summed up in two words: level scaling. Enemies in the game are adjusting according to your level, which kills all the excitement in the game. You can go slay the hugest enemies when you're level 1 because their strength will be according to your level (and they will drop crappy items, too); and when you're high-level you have to be careful of even the lamest enemies, and even the same petty bandits you fought at the beginning will be on par with you and drop posh armour. So there is no longer the thrill of going to a red dragon lair, getting slaughtered, and wondering how you're going to defeat it... returning 20 levels later to crush all the dragons.

    I must say that I'm not against level scaling in general, but I think if it is applied it must be done with moderation, and it's extremely hard to do it right. ADOM is an example of an excellent game with level scaling, but this is because it applies it in a very slight way: enemies tend to get somewhat tougher over time as they get experienced, but in the end dragons are still dragons, and rats are still rats (and anyway the thing still has its drawbacks... google uberjackal effect). In Oblivion, they applied level scaling up to a point where every location in the world has the same difficulty, and where you are never surprised by finding an out-of-depth item or monster because everything is uniform, and this makes the game feel just dull. In fact, the best way to finish the game (I haven't tried it personally, but there are numerous accounts all over the internet) is trying not to level and staying all the time at level 1, for God's sake. That's a flawed design if I've ever seen one.

    I wouldn't recommend you to play Oblivion unless you're a game designer and you have a professional interest in seeing what not to do, and how to totally screw up a game that could be great by a couple of horrible design choices. It's also a curious example of a game that gets top scores in the reviews but then bores the hell out of actual players, simply because the first impressions are great (they were great for me, too) until you begin to realise that there is something terribly wrong with the gameplay, which c

  11. Re:I never did get very far into Dagerfall but.... by WuphonsReach · · Score: 2, Informative

    Whatever you do, forget the built-in design of Oblivion and install Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, which makes the game feel a lot more traditional. High level bosses are no longer beatable at level 1, low level critters are no longer a threat at high levels.

    Which makes a lot more sense then Bethesda's design. Unfortunately, it doesn't fix Shivering Isles. So you may wish to go do Shivering Isles content first.

    --
    Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?