Online Forum Leads To Hostile Workplace Lawsuit

Racist cops..... by pablo_max · 2009-07-18 04:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

And racist cops are news because??? Also, how is this tech news other than the fact that someone used the internet?

Re:Racist cops..... by Duradin · 2009-07-18 05:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

"And racist cops are news because??? Also, how is this tech news other than the fact that someone used the internet?"
The moral of the story is that "the all-black Guardian Civic League" is A-OK.
If it was a forum of all minority officers, and they were doing the same thing to all the crackers and honkies (ie, being racist against whites) anyone complaining about it would just be "the man" and "trying to keep them down" and violating their civil rights.
It's like where I went to school. There was a black student union, a black choir and a black homecoming (run in parallel with the normal one) with their own black king and queen. "The man" didn't make these groups to segregate the whites and the blacks, the black students themselves made these organizations. Unfortunately we couldn't ever get anyone brave enough or stupid enough to try to make the white student union, choir, and homecoming.
Re:Racist cops..... by Abcd1234 · 2009-07-18 06:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

The problem is, cops tend to be jerks no matter who they are.
Please. First, cops who abuse their power for any reason deserve to be fired. Second, a cop who's a jerk to everyone, versus a cop who's just a jerk to black people, are two very *very* different things. The former is at least fair. The latter means the law will likely be unevenly applied, and last I checked, that violated the US's equal protection laws.
And as for racism, everyone is racist to some degree. As evidenced by it we target marketing to certain ethnic groups, fill out ethnic information on census forms, etc.
Holy shit... you aren't seriously trying to draw an equivalence between denigrating someone based on their race, and targeting marketing at them based on cultural differences, are you? Because, frankly, that's fucking absurd. Referring to ethnically-target marketing as racism makes the term utterly meaningless.
Re:Racist cops..... by rainsford · 2009-07-18 06:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

You would have a point if black people and white people (or any minority group and white people) were treated equally and fairly in our nation, or if they had the exact same experiences and cultural "needs". But simply proclaiming that "color doesn't matter any more" doesn't make it so, and suggesting that black people don't need "black groups" because WHITE people don't need "white groups" is comparing apples and oranges. You want to know where the groups pushing white advancement are? Look no further than the leadership of any large company...who's working there, compared to who's working in the factory or on the loading dock? I'm not saying the imbalance of power and influence in this country is inherently racist, but the fact is that white people DO have a lot more power, influence and money compared to their black fellow citizens...even accounting for the difference in population. And as far as cultural identity goes, it's the same thing...white is the default, we don't NEED any special effort or groups made to maintain our identity, it's built in. That's what comes from being the majority...
Re:Racist cops..... by sayfawa · 2009-07-18 06:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

"If it was a forum of all minority officers, and they were doing the same thing to all the crackers and honkies (ie, being racist against whites) anyone complaining about it would just be "the man" and "trying to keep them down" and violating their civil rights."

And you know this, how? Citation needed.

"It's like where I went to school. There was a black student union, a black choir and a black homecoming (run in parallel with the normal one) with their own black king and queen. "The man" didn't make these groups to segregate the whites and the blacks, the black students themselves made these organizations. Unfortunately we couldn't ever get anyone brave enough or stupid enough to try to make the white student union, choir, and homecoming."

The rest of your school was the white student union, the regular homecoming had the music and style that white people liked. If your school were mostly black, then I'd agree that it was dumb to have a BSU and black homecoming, because that's what the student body union and regular homecoming would be, but it wasn't was it? It was a mostly white school where the views and tastes of white people (so far as a skin color can be generalized) were reflected in all the official events. If other cultures wanted to do things a different way, they had to start their own organizations. And someone should have a problem with this, why?

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Re:Racist cops..... by h4rm0ny · 2009-07-18 06:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

Presuming that ethnicity equates to a particular culture is racist, actually. If someone makes an assumption about your attitudes and beliefs based on your race, what else can it be? Now if you want to market something to Americans, you can make that case. If you want to market something to Mexican people or people from Mozambique, then maybe you have a case (though you're still stereotyping). But when you say something along the lines of Person X is Black, therefore they will identify with Culture Y, you're judging people by their skin colour, not who they are.

And personally, I refuse to fill out those ethnicity sections on forms - it's not relevant, so I wont add it.

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Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Re:Racist cops..... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-07-18 07:12 · Score: 1, Insightful

What about Hispanics?
What about East Asians?
What about Asian Indians?
What about American Indians?
What about persons of mixed parentage?
Black vs White is so 20th Century.
Re:Racist cops..... by ultranova · 2009-07-18 07:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

The rest of your school was the white student union, the regular homecoming had the music and style that white people liked.

And you know this, how? Citation needed.

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Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Re:Racist cops..... by vux984 · 2009-07-18 08:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

First, cops who abuse their power for any reason deserve to be fired.
That's great. But there are a couple issues:
1) The people responsible for firing them are also police, and police like most any other group of workers who must rely on eachother in life-death situations... they get close knit.
2) The type of people that seek to become "cops" is skewed towards power hungry jerks in the first place. So you are picking from a pool that is self-selecting towards the type of people you don't want.
This isn't uncommon... some jobs are best performed by people who don't aspire to the job. From police work to politics to jury duty. Indeed, it seems that any job that gives 'power' is best performed by people who don't aspire to power. But naturally people who do aspire for power will actively seek out those jobs... and then do them poorly.
Re:Racist cops..... by superdana · 2009-07-18 10:08 · Score: 1, Insightful

The reason it's OK to make an all-black group but not an all-white group is that white people are the ones with the privilege, the ones who bought and sold black people as slaves, and the ones who still, today, enjoy advantages that are invisible to them but plainly visible to everyone else. We teach white history in schools. White people still dominate positions of power in business, law, medicine--you name it. We *just now* finally got around to putting the first Chinese American in Congress, the first African American in the Oval Office, and the first Latina on the Supreme Court. And we still have a long way to go before we have anything that even remotely resembles racial equality. So, no, you can't make an all-white group, because that would only reinforce the existing racial power asymmetries; but it's OK to make an all-black group because they still suffer at the hands of these asymmetries.
Re:Racist cops..... by billius · 2009-07-18 21:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

First, cops who abuse their power for any reason deserve to be fired.

The people responsible for firing them are also police, and police like most any other group of workers who must rely on eachother in life-death situations... they get close knit.
Indeed, one would assume that it would be pretty easy to get fired from a position that could involve making split-second life-or-death decisions, but as far as I've seen it's basically impossible. Take for example the cop who stole marijuana from an evidence locker, made brownies with it, ate the brownies, freaked out and called 911. If any normal citizen had called 911 fearing that they had a drug overdose (which is basically impossible with marijuana, but I digress), they would be handed over to the authorities after any medical issues they might be having were resolved. So what happened to the cop who not only did this, but stole the marijuana in the first place? Was he charged? At least fired? No. He was allowed to resign; a bullshit slap on the wrist for something that would have been a huge pain in the ass for a normal person. I've never understood why people in positions of authority seem to have less accountability for their actions than normal people. If a normal person was using their office computer on company to post racist remarks, they'd get fired. If a cop does it, there's a big moral dilemma about what to do. If the manager at a fast food place hires underage kids and has sex with them after the place is locked up, he gets canned. If a Catholic priest (who's supposed to be a fucking moral authority for crying out loud) does it, there's a big hue and cry about the bible and forgiveness and "once a priest, always a priest" and nobody gets properly punished for what they've done. Goes to show that some professions are a little too good at looking after their own.

i woudln't do this. by sandmtyh · 2009-07-18 04:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

starting a lawsuit is the best way to get people to drag their feet when responding to an officer down call.

Re:i woudln't do this. by rainsford · 2009-07-18 06:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's also probably not a good idea to make racially bigoted comments to your fellow officers, but that doesn't seem to have stopped the white cops...
Re:i woudln't do this. by Abcd1234 · 2009-07-18 10:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Wait wait... so a black cop should turn a blind eye to racism in the work place because, otherwise, he may be *risking his life*?? Wow... apparently law enforcement is an even more corrupt, disgusting place than I ever imagined.

Solution by Dread_ed · 2009-07-18 04:39 · Score: 3, Insightful

Private ownership is private and government ownership is government. Sounds like a simple case of plantiffs going after the deepest pockets and those most easily controlled through political and media manipulation.

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When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.

Re:Solution by c_forq · 2009-07-18 05:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Note what the parent to your comment said, evidence. I can allegations are not evidence.

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Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
Re:Solution by Bigjeff5 · 2009-07-18 05:21 · Score: 1, Insightful

FTFA: "The suit alleges white officers post on and moderate the privately operated site, Domelights.com, both on and off the job."
Until our political & judicial system is as bad as it was in Soviet Russia or as bad as it seems Europe is getting, allegations do not equal evidence. The GP specifically said they gave no evidence, and you just backed him up with your quote from the article.
It's a real dangerous world when allegations are considered proof.
For my personal opinion, these people are entitled to host and discuss their personal website at work. Depending on the internet usage policies governing what websites they can or can't visit, viewing a personal website is fine on the job. However, these people must work together in life-or-death situations on a regular basis, and if some of these officers were causing division - intentionally or unintentionally - then management needs to deal with their staff. If it was unintentional (hard to imagine in this particular case), a simple "Hey, quit talking bout that shit at work, it makes your fellow cops uncomfortable" will probably do the trick. If it is intentional, they need to be moved or canned if they won't straighten up their act.
The lawsuit is only the correct way to go if the upper echelon were supporting these cops.

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Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller

Screw'em! by erroneus · 2009-07-18 04:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things. Women in the workplace and black people in the work place. Neither are typically "minorities" and if/when the tables are turned and a group was making "white" or "man" jokes, white men would likely not care at all.

It's time to say "toughen up!!!" It's not like they are in fear of anything. There will always be something to offend people if you dig deep enough. So stop digging and you won't find things. There will always be aspects of humanity and society that seems annoying and offensive. When people take those things too far, you end up living with Taliban rule. What is "too far"? I don't know. But black and female people have long since expired their period of needing special treatment and are fully equal in opportunity and respect as far as I can tell. It's time we all treat each other equally badly.

Re:Screw'em! by ScrewMaster · 2009-07-18 05:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things.
We pander because those same groups have a habit of hiring lawyers and having laws passed to "protect" them.

My girlfriend is black, I'm not ... and we both feel precisely the way you do. Granted, she wasn't born here, she's African by birth. In spite of that (or, more likely, because of that, she grew up in some damn tough environments) she believes that a lot of people in this country just need to deal with the fact that life can be harsh. Fact is, some people are assholes. Period, end-of-statement. Wasting more than a millisecond of neuron time over that is a complete waste.

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The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Re:Screw'em! by Stu1706 · 2009-07-18 05:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

I do agree that we are to PC, except in the case of what is said about white men. If Sotomayor was a white guy talking about the plight of white men in this country everyone would have been yelling racism. But when you have an openly racist police officer, that is a totally different than just dealing with people not being PC.
Re:Screw'em! by erroneus · 2009-07-18 05:14 · Score: 2, Insightful

I would argue that men filing complaints on men is typically people taking advantage of the system that was built to foster equality in the workplace. And that is yet another problem resulting from the "fixes" put into place.
Women in the workplace and black people in the professional work place "were" new things and needed policies and even laws to make the transition less painful and unpleasant. But it was a //transition// that has been made. All these claims simply aren't needed the way they once were.
Now if something is criminally actionable, forget going to HR. Let one or more people sue one or more people directly. HR has no place in the matter. But if it's jokes and crap like that? Forget it! There will always be groups and cliques and things that make some people uncomfortable. It's standard human ... no, standard animal behavior. It's not something that is going to go away with regulations and policies. Every workplace is "hostile."
Re:Screw'em! by girlintraining · 2009-07-18 05:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things. Women in the workplace and black people in the work place. Neither are typically "minorities" and if/when the tables are turned and a group was making "white" or "man" jokes, white men would likely not care at all.
Using women or blacks as an example and how they're allowed to make jokes that others aren't is a specious argument; Two wrongs don't make a right. The issue is that some people are failing to keep things professional. The expectation when you show up to work is that you work. Everything else is secondary to that, and if your color commentary is interfering with my (or anyone else's) work, it needs to stop. It's just that simple. You don't have a right to be offensive. That said, you're right insofar as some people overreact--just because someone else is a douche doesn't mean you have to sink to their level. A polite reminder or a memo is sufficient in 95% of all cases to correct the behavior. You don't even have to involve a manager most of the time. People are dumb, they make mistakes; Don't get worked up about it. For the remaining 5%, we have laws like this. On the clock, everything you do should be related to your job. But if you can't do that, at least have the decency to be mindful of the company you're keeping and making sure they are okay with your side conversation. It's just... being a decent human being.
That said, police work consists of piss poor pay, long hours, high stress, a decent risk of getting a bullet in your ass, and it's a thankless profession. Like EMTs, most emergency services personnel have a dry and/or odd sense of humor that others find morbid, offensive, or downright rude. A lot of them smoke or "self-medicate" to cope. I think it's only natural that they'd need an outlet to express their work frustrations outside of work. And once it leaves the workplace, it's fair game, first amendment and everything. What you do on your own time is your own business, even if it is offensive and derogatory towards your coworkers. As a woman, I expect men to make sexually crass comments when I'm not around. I also know some of them will go home and smoke pot, do drugs, eat hot dogs and hamburgers until their heart explodes... and you know what? I'm okay with that. Just keep it away from me.
People need to be mindful of the social spaces they occupy. I don't go to the bar dressed in a low-cut dress and then act outraged when some drunk creepy guy (or girl) hits on me. That's what bars are for. If the same person shows up drunk at the grocery store when I'm dressed in nothing more than jeans and a hoodie and does the same thing he's playing with fire. Likewise, showing up on an electronic forum for inner-city cops is likely to be full of racist, sexist, and every other kind of -ist and -ism out there, not because those people are somehow inherently evil, but because they deal with the worst examples of those groups on long shifts day after day.

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#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Re:Screw'em! by Abcd1234 · 2009-07-18 06:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

In fact, most people would agree that the problem of "racism" is largely maintained by those who benefit the most from it and isn't nearly the problem at large that it once was.
Said as someone who's never actually experienced racism.
You go tell that to your average Arabic man who's avoided on the street by people who are afraid of them because he "looks scary". Or a black man who's sentenced to death by a court system that hands out such sentences to black men more often than it does to white men.
Sorry, racism is alive and well. Is there segregation? No. But to claim that racism just isn't a big deal anymore is simply absurd. And that's doubly true when talking about racism within law enforcement, for which there should be an absolutely zero tolerance policy.
Seriously, the comments on this article point out one thing very clearly: Your average slashdotter is a middle-to-high income white person who has no idea what the real world is actually like.
Re:Screw'em! by drinkypoo · 2009-07-18 06:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

Women in the workplace and black people in the professional work place "were" new things and needed policies and even laws to make the transition less painful and unpleasant. But it was a //transition// that has been made. All these claims simply aren't needed the way they once were.
Too bad you haven't made the transition to HTML.
Snarky asides aside, if you think that white males, any women, and any blacks are equal in the workplace, think again. And if you aren't incensed when your tax dollars are spent to support racism (cops are allegedly using this site during work hours, and the racism is spilling over into the workplace) then you're Part Of The Problem.

But if it's jokes and crap like that? Forget it! There will always be groups and cliques and things that make some people uncomfortable.
The police should be held to a higher standard, as should any government employee, not least because individual citizens don't get to choose where the money goes. Racism begets racism, racist thought begets racist thought, if they're creating this environment amongst themselves, how are they treating The People?

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Screw'em! by jjohnson · 2009-07-18 08:28 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is it okay to call to call you a "cunt" outside of work, but bad inside of work?
It's not okay to call you a "cunt" outside of work, but outside of work I'm not required to be in your presence. Outside of work I can walk away. I can refuse to socialize with you. At work, I don't have that freedom, at least not without suffering for it. Why should I have to give up my job to escape your abuse?

Either the speech is offensive or it is not. Either we need to be protected from it or we do not. There is no "kinda-sorta" about it.
There is, however, context to it. A random stranger yelling "cunt" at me from across the street is a very different thing than my boss doing it. When it's my boss, I'm forced to either 1) accept being called "cunt" as a condition of continued employment or 2) find another job, putting a burden on me if I don't want to be addressed as "cunt", and for no other reason than you're an asshole--not for anything I've done.

I mean, seriously, what are you trying to do? Make the workplace the only safe place?
We're trying to avoid forcing people to choose between keeping a paycheck and not tolerating abuse.

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Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
Re:Screw'em! by Abcd1234 · 2009-07-18 12:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

Do you know WHY things are like that? Blacks generally commit more crime, commit murder
Sorry, fail. The rates I cited are corrected for frequency of offence. The simple fact is, given a black man and a white man committing the same crime, blacks are more likely to be given the death penalty.
Arabs are, for all intents and purposes, THE terrorist ethnicity in the west.
And that justifies racism? No. It doesn't. Or do you look suspiciously at anyone who might be Irish? Yeah... didn't think so.
Hint: You average Muslim extremist most likely isn't living in your cloistered little suburb. They're busy blowing themselves up in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Until blacks and arabs/muslims do something to change the thug/terrorist stereotype by actually telling their kids to quit being a bunch of useless fucks and grow up and be somebody that does more than hurt others or be a leech on society nothing will change.
Ahh... now I get it. You're a racist son of a bitch. Fair 'nuff. But the least you could do is just admit it, rather than trying to couch it in conservative values.

The Solution Here by fragmentate · 2009-07-18 04:41 · Score: 5, Insightful

A lot of people misinterpret what "freedom of expression" means.

People believe they have the write to "express" themselves as they please in the workplace. That simply isn't the case. Our rights -- our freedoms -- are protected against government interference not private interference. Your employer -- even a government office -- can silence you. There are laws for the workplace that take precedence over your rights. The law protects employees against being discriminated against or being harassed because of their ethnicity, religious beliefs, disabilities, sexual orientation, and gender. Those aren't rights, however. You don't have a right not to be harassed. You are protected by laws.

Quite simply, these officers are out of line, and have broken laws. They don't have a choice but to change their behavior. If they want to frequent this site from home in their private time that is when their right to express themselves is enforceable. However, we all know there are consequences to actions in our private lives as well. But trying to make people behave to serve their best-interest is just a futile effort at protecting "stupid."

The comments about this story are already ridiculous (search news.google.com, and blogs.google.com). Everyone thinks they know their rights, but I can tell by the comments none really know what their rights are, or what a right is.

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My ZooLoo

Re:The Solution Here by WiiVault · 2009-07-18 04:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

I don't think it is clear at all that they were posting whileon the job. Where did you come to that conclusion except based on the random guess of the plaintiff? I have yet to see a shred of proof. Its dirty and mean, but not illegal.
Re:The Solution Here by markdavis · 2009-07-18 06:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wasn't aware the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights addressed having a "respectful workplace".
We should all expect one, and we should all strive to make it that way. And most HR offices will have policies about it. But it is not a "right".

Cry me a river by WiiVault · 2009-07-18 04:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

While it is certainly in bad taste to have officers voicing these opinions on a forum, what is even more absurd is the lack of integrity of these lawyers to file such an insane lawsuit. Was anything illegal even committed? Also worth noting that these same lawyers are tacking the "pool kids" case. I can't help but think that perhaps that story is a similar pile of "I'm a victim" bullshit. Its sad when people abuse race, because it leads to distrust of those who are actually being discriminated against and need help.

Seems pretty obvious by MikeBabcock · 2009-07-18 04:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

If a man goes to a private website like say, Playboy in private and then discusses it in front of female co-workers, they may be charged with harassment. Guess what, just because its a private website, magazine, or bar doesn't mean you should repeat those thoughts or experiences or stories in front of your co-workers who could most obviously be offended.

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- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)

Re:Seems pretty obvious by ceoyoyo · 2009-07-18 06:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

That's not what the article or the summary says the suit is claiming.

The suit alleges white officers post on and moderate the privately operated site, Domelights.com, both on and off the job.
Domelights' users "often joke about the racially offensive commentary on the site ... or will mention them in front of black police officers," thus creating "a racially hostile work environment," according to lawyers for the all-black Guardian Civic League, the lead plaintiff in the suit.
(emphasis mine)
So his analogy is completely right. It's like a programmer going to slashdot, at work, posting sexist comments, then joking about it in front of his female coworkers.
Re:Seems pretty obvious by nurb432 · 2009-07-18 06:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Everyone is offended by something, by your suggestion we should all exist in a box and not speak to any other human.
If you are offended by what i say and you don't walk away, its your problem, not mine. Im really tired of all this "PC" garbage where we are expected to walk on eggshells all the time. What happened to the so called victim taking some responsibility?

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---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Seems pretty obvious by mpe · 2009-07-18 07:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

If a man goes to a private website like say, Playboy in private and then discusses it in front of female co-workers, they may be charged with harassment.

If a woman was to go to somewhere like Playgirl then discussed it in front of male co-workers would she be equally likely to be charged with harassment? Aside from possible sexism, what if a sports fan were to discuss his/her sport in front of non fan co-workers...
Re:Seems pretty obvious by prichardson · 2009-07-18 09:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, when say something that's obviously offensive to someone who is required to be proximate to you for their livelihood, they can't just walk away. That's why it's generally considered merely ridiculous when someone spouts racist garbage on the street, but as soon as you bring it to the workplace, you break the law.
"Walk away" is not a possible solution when you're trapped in a squad car with some bigot.

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Help I'm a rock.

Fire their asses. Simple as that. by EWAdams · 2009-07-18 04:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

You're allowed to hold any idiot opinion you want in the USA. You are not allowed to express it on the job. Workplace harmony trumps freedom to be an asshole. This was settled long ago; it's a dead issue. It goes double for cops, who need both to be sensitive to the public AND to have the full confidence and support of their fellow officers.

Don't like it? Go be a cop in Saudi, where I'm sure you're allowed to be as racist as you like.

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I piss off bigots.

If the cops wanted... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-07-18 05:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

...a forum to anonymously post racist remarks, why didn't they choose 4chan?

One way discrimination by ATestR · 2009-07-18 05:19 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ok, if the white cops post their opinions about the minority (black) residents of their city, it's discrimination. Does anybody want to lay odds that a similar comment made by a minority officer about a white resident would NOT be considered discrimination? Or that if an accusation of racial discrimination was made against the minority, that a charge of discrimination against the accuser would be leveled?

I did RTFA. Some of the sample comments that the article displayed were a bit over the top, and the officers that made them should be censured, but calling the statement: "Blacks and other minorities frequently don't have the resources that white people have. Consequently, blacks may not be able to keep their vehicles inspected, registered, and roadworthy." racist is bogus. This is an observation of fact. You could have made the statement more racially neutral by saying "Lower income groups don't have the resources that white people have. Consequently, those groups may not be able to keep their vehicles inspected, registered, and roadworthy." The only difference between the statements is that the first presumes that Blacks and other minorities are lower income. This is a statistic, sad but true. Preventing someone [even a public employee like a police officer] from publicly posting this kind of statement will not change this.

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âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

Solution by KharmaWidow · 2009-07-18 05:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Grow up. Its just words. The "victims" give the words power, not the racists. Learn from the gay movement.

Re:Good thing you're white by dickbot · 2009-07-18 07:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

oh please, enough with the preaching already.

"good thing you're white I guess", bleh, you obviously haven't even read some of the comments, including the one made by someone who isn't black but whose girlfriend is, and who all happen to find this bullshit revoltingly idiotic.

The simple fact is that most of us are aware of racial factors, just like most of us are aware of social, political, sexual, and younameit factors which happen to MATTER in our lives and jobs. Most of us also tend to make fun of essentially two things : ourselves (self-derision) and OTHERS, i.e people and things with substantially different backgrounds, natures, ways of life, etc.

If you can't live with your own humanity, try the Borg. You sound like an 8-yo left-wing convert with the appropriate zeal.

As for the article you linked, I find it very refreshing, especially in our era of self-doubt, total relativism and utter lack-of-ballness.

Also, I am an arab from north Africa. Yeah. Cops are racist indeed ; so are we all.

Isn't this already covered by existing rules? by kenh · 2009-07-18 09:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

The assertions are that:

a) A police officer owns/runs a website that sometimes hosts racist humor/statements.

b) Some police officers access this site and tell others what they saw/read there while "on the job".

c) Some police officers update the website while on the job.

d) Some police officers access/read the website while at work.

The first point (policeman running the website) is perfectly legal - assuming he isn't violating any city ordinances (no pictures while in uniform, representing himself as speaking for the department, etc.).

The Second point (quoting from the site), well, hate speech is hate speech, the source of it is immaterial - would the black cops feel better if the racist comment was being sourced from a Chris Rock concert? Bill Cosby? Police who are found to be harassing fellow officers should be punished, and I'm sure there are ways of making that happen *inside the department*.

The third and fourth points (updating the website from work and reading the website at work), well, if they are on break, and they don't use department resources (for example, they use a PDA/smartphone, not a desktop computer), what is the offense? If they are not on break, again, there are methods for punishing these infractions inside the department I'm sure.

Is there a reason the PD doesn't simply block the webiste in question? Issue a policy saying the website is not to be accessed during work hours or at anytime on police department equipment? Hate speech is already covered, I'm sure.

--
Ken

Re:Racist government..... by Anonymous Coward · 2009-07-18 12:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

"enjoy advantages that are invisible to them but plainly visible to everyone else" Or really? Like set asides, quotas and score boosts based on the color of your skin, which cannot be white in order to receive those? So the middle class black kids deserve more help than trailer park white kids? As for equality - what you are demanding is completely stupid and off base = you are demanding equality of outcome. Sorry, no such thing. Try again - your argument is shot full of holes.

Re:What's up with black firefighters in the USA? by dogeatery · 2009-07-19 02:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

Or maybe it's just because most black Americans live in or around poverty, which leads to an increased willingness to take risks both for economic gain (ie., crime) and social justice and support (ie., gangs). After a generation or two of these community institutions, the community's most visible leaders will be those who gained from them, thus leading younger members of the community to adopt practices of the role models at hand. But, you know, that sounds too complicated and your simplified explanation devoid of any context makes a lot more sense.

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