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Online Forum Leads To Hostile Workplace Lawsuit

Posted by Soulskill on from the freedom-to-be-jerks dept.

Tiger4 writes "A group of black Philadelphia police officers have filed a lawsuit against the police department and the city, alleging a hostile work environment due to a private website popular with police. Their story has received wide coverage. From CNN: 'The suit alleges white officers post on and moderate the privately operated site, Domelights.com, both on and off the job. Domelights' users "often joke about the racially offensive commentary on the site ... or will mention them in front of black police officers," thus creating "a racially hostile work environment," according to lawyers for the all-black Guardian Civic League, the lead plaintiff in the suit.' The site appears to be owned and operated by a member of the police force, but it is not funded or operated by the city. Management clearly knows it exists; it is possible police force members access it on the job, and the suit says some of them reference it on the job. Individual police force members have a right to their own opinions, but management has a responsibility to enforce the law fairly and equitably across the city and among their own workforce. What is the solution here?"

22 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Racist cops..... by pablo_max · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And racist cops are news because??? Also, how is this tech news other than the fact that someone used the internet?

    1. Re:Racist cops..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you get into the actual facts of the story it is clear, though the summary didn't really touch on it.

      At it's heart it's a question of whether a person that runs a bulletin board is responsible for what posters post, a subject of frequent commentary on slashdot.

      In point of fact, it would be like calling Commander Taco a racist homophobe because of all the troll spam that's gotten posted here over the years.

    2. Re:Racist cops..... by Duradin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "And racist cops are news because??? Also, how is this tech news other than the fact that someone used the internet?"

      The moral of the story is that "the all-black Guardian Civic League" is A-OK.

      If it was a forum of all minority officers, and they were doing the same thing to all the crackers and honkies (ie, being racist against whites) anyone complaining about it would just be "the man" and "trying to keep them down" and violating their civil rights.

      It's like where I went to school. There was a black student union, a black choir and a black homecoming (run in parallel with the normal one) with their own black king and queen. "The man" didn't make these groups to segregate the whites and the blacks, the black students themselves made these organizations. Unfortunately we couldn't ever get anyone brave enough or stupid enough to try to make the white student union, choir, and homecoming.

    3. Re:Racist cops..... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sir! I will have you know that I am neither a Cracker nor a Honky! I am a Jive Turkey and proud of it.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    4. Re:Racist cops..... by Abcd1234 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is, cops tend to be jerks no matter who they are.

      Please. First, cops who abuse their power for any reason deserve to be fired. Second, a cop who's a jerk to everyone, versus a cop who's just a jerk to black people, are two very *very* different things. The former is at least fair. The latter means the law will likely be unevenly applied, and last I checked, that violated the US's equal protection laws.

      And as for racism, everyone is racist to some degree. As evidenced by it we target marketing to certain ethnic groups, fill out ethnic information on census forms, etc.

      Holy shit... you aren't seriously trying to draw an equivalence between denigrating someone based on their race, and targeting marketing at them based on cultural differences, are you? Because, frankly, that's fucking absurd. Referring to ethnically-target marketing as racism makes the term utterly meaningless.

    5. Re:Racist cops..... by ultranova · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The rest of your school was the white student union, the regular homecoming had the music and style that white people liked.

      And you know this, how? Citation needed.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Racist cops..... by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First, cops who abuse their power for any reason deserve to be fired.

      That's great. But there are a couple issues:

      1) The people responsible for firing them are also police, and police like most any other group of workers who must rely on eachother in life-death situations... they get close knit.

      2) The type of people that seek to become "cops" is skewed towards power hungry jerks in the first place. So you are picking from a pool that is self-selecting towards the type of people you don't want.

      This isn't uncommon... some jobs are best performed by people who don't aspire to the job. From police work to politics to jury duty. Indeed, it seems that any job that gives 'power' is best performed by people who don't aspire to power. But naturally people who do aspire for power will actively seek out those jobs... and then do them poorly.

  2. i woudln't do this. by sandmtyh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    starting a lawsuit is the best way to get people to drag their feet when responding to an officer down call.

  3. Solution by Dread_ed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Private ownership is private and government ownership is government. Sounds like a simple case of plantiffs going after the deepest pockets and those most easily controlled through political and media manipulation.

    --
    When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
  4. Screw'em! by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things. Women in the workplace and black people in the work place. Neither are typically "minorities" and if/when the tables are turned and a group was making "white" or "man" jokes, white men would likely not care at all.

    It's time to say "toughen up!!!" It's not like they are in fear of anything. There will always be something to offend people if you dig deep enough. So stop digging and you won't find things. There will always be aspects of humanity and society that seems annoying and offensive. When people take those things too far, you end up living with Taliban rule. What is "too far"? I don't know. But black and female people have long since expired their period of needing special treatment and are fully equal in opportunity and respect as far as I can tell. It's time we all treat each other equally badly.

    1. Re:Screw'em! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things.

      We pander because those same groups have a habit of hiring lawyers and having laws passed to "protect" them.

      My girlfriend is black, I'm not ... and we both feel precisely the way you do. Granted, she wasn't born here, she's African by birth. In spite of that (or, more likely, because of that, she grew up in some damn tough environments) she believes that a lot of people in this country just need to deal with the fact that life can be harsh. Fact is, some people are assholes. Period, end-of-statement. Wasting more than a millisecond of neuron time over that is a complete waste.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Screw'em! by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We have had this sickening pattern of pandering to groups who take the most offense to things. Women in the workplace and black people in the work place. Neither are typically "minorities" and if/when the tables are turned and a group was making "white" or "man" jokes, white men would likely not care at all.

      Using women or blacks as an example and how they're allowed to make jokes that others aren't is a specious argument; Two wrongs don't make a right. The issue is that some people are failing to keep things professional. The expectation when you show up to work is that you work. Everything else is secondary to that, and if your color commentary is interfering with my (or anyone else's) work, it needs to stop. It's just that simple. You don't have a right to be offensive. That said, you're right insofar as some people overreact--just because someone else is a douche doesn't mean you have to sink to their level. A polite reminder or a memo is sufficient in 95% of all cases to correct the behavior. You don't even have to involve a manager most of the time. People are dumb, they make mistakes; Don't get worked up about it. For the remaining 5%, we have laws like this. On the clock, everything you do should be related to your job. But if you can't do that, at least have the decency to be mindful of the company you're keeping and making sure they are okay with your side conversation. It's just... being a decent human being.

      That said, police work consists of piss poor pay, long hours, high stress, a decent risk of getting a bullet in your ass, and it's a thankless profession. Like EMTs, most emergency services personnel have a dry and/or odd sense of humor that others find morbid, offensive, or downright rude. A lot of them smoke or "self-medicate" to cope. I think it's only natural that they'd need an outlet to express their work frustrations outside of work. And once it leaves the workplace, it's fair game, first amendment and everything. What you do on your own time is your own business, even if it is offensive and derogatory towards your coworkers. As a woman, I expect men to make sexually crass comments when I'm not around. I also know some of them will go home and smoke pot, do drugs, eat hot dogs and hamburgers until their heart explodes... and you know what? I'm okay with that. Just keep it away from me.

      People need to be mindful of the social spaces they occupy. I don't go to the bar dressed in a low-cut dress and then act outraged when some drunk creepy guy (or girl) hits on me. That's what bars are for. If the same person shows up drunk at the grocery store when I'm dressed in nothing more than jeans and a hoodie and does the same thing he's playing with fire. Likewise, showing up on an electronic forum for inner-city cops is likely to be full of racist, sexist, and every other kind of -ist and -ism out there, not because those people are somehow inherently evil, but because they deal with the worst examples of those groups on long shifts day after day.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:Screw'em! by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In fact, most people would agree that the problem of "racism" is largely maintained by those who benefit the most from it and isn't nearly the problem at large that it once was.

      Said as someone who's never actually experienced racism.

      You go tell that to your average Arabic man who's avoided on the street by people who are afraid of them because he "looks scary". Or a black man who's sentenced to death by a court system that hands out such sentences to black men more often than it does to white men.

      Sorry, racism is alive and well. Is there segregation? No. But to claim that racism just isn't a big deal anymore is simply absurd. And that's doubly true when talking about racism within law enforcement, for which there should be an absolutely zero tolerance policy.

      Seriously, the comments on this article point out one thing very clearly: Your average slashdotter is a middle-to-high income white person who has no idea what the real world is actually like.

    4. Re:Screw'em! by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Women in the workplace and black people in the professional work place "were" new things and needed policies and even laws to make the transition less painful and unpleasant. But it was a //transition// that has been made. All these claims simply aren't needed the way they once were.

      Too bad you haven't made the transition to HTML.

      Snarky asides aside, if you think that white males, any women, and any blacks are equal in the workplace, think again. And if you aren't incensed when your tax dollars are spent to support racism (cops are allegedly using this site during work hours, and the racism is spilling over into the workplace) then you're Part Of The Problem.

      But if it's jokes and crap like that? Forget it! There will always be groups and cliques and things that make some people uncomfortable.

      The police should be held to a higher standard, as should any government employee, not least because individual citizens don't get to choose where the money goes. Racism begets racism, racist thought begets racist thought, if they're creating this environment amongst themselves, how are they treating The People?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Screw'em! by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you know WHY things are like that? Blacks generally commit more crime, commit murder

      Sorry, fail. The rates I cited are corrected for frequency of offence. The simple fact is, given a black man and a white man committing the same crime, blacks are more likely to be given the death penalty.

      Arabs are, for all intents and purposes, THE terrorist ethnicity in the west.

      And that justifies racism? No. It doesn't. Or do you look suspiciously at anyone who might be Irish? Yeah... didn't think so.

      Hint: You average Muslim extremist most likely isn't living in your cloistered little suburb. They're busy blowing themselves up in Afghanistan or Iraq.

      Until blacks and arabs/muslims do something to change the thug/terrorist stereotype by actually telling their kids to quit being a bunch of useless fucks and grow up and be somebody that does more than hurt others or be a leech on society nothing will change.

      Ahh... now I get it. You're a racist son of a bitch. Fair 'nuff. But the least you could do is just admit it, rather than trying to couch it in conservative values.

  5. The Solution Here by fragmentate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A lot of people misinterpret what "freedom of expression" means.

    People believe they have the write to "express" themselves as they please in the workplace. That simply isn't the case. Our rights -- our freedoms -- are protected against government interference not private interference. Your employer -- even a government office -- can silence you. There are laws for the workplace that take precedence over your rights. The law protects employees against being discriminated against or being harassed because of their ethnicity, religious beliefs, disabilities, sexual orientation, and gender. Those aren't rights, however. You don't have a right not to be harassed. You are protected by laws.

    Quite simply, these officers are out of line, and have broken laws. They don't have a choice but to change their behavior. If they want to frequent this site from home in their private time that is when their right to express themselves is enforceable. However, we all know there are consequences to actions in our private lives as well. But trying to make people behave to serve their best-interest is just a futile effort at protecting "stupid."

    The comments about this story are already ridiculous (search news.google.com, and blogs.google.com). Everyone thinks they know their rights, but I can tell by the comments none really know what their rights are, or what a right is.

    --
    My ZooLoo
  6. Cry me a river by WiiVault · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While it is certainly in bad taste to have officers voicing these opinions on a forum, what is even more absurd is the lack of integrity of these lawyers to file such an insane lawsuit. Was anything illegal even committed? Also worth noting that these same lawyers are tacking the "pool kids" case. I can't help but think that perhaps that story is a similar pile of "I'm a victim" bullshit. Its sad when people abuse race, because it leads to distrust of those who are actually being discriminated against and need help.

  7. Seems pretty obvious by MikeBabcock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If a man goes to a private website like say, Playboy in private and then discusses it in front of female co-workers, they may be charged with harassment. Guess what, just because its a private website, magazine, or bar doesn't mean you should repeat those thoughts or experiences or stories in front of your co-workers who could most obviously be offended.

    --
    - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    1. Re:Seems pretty obvious by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not what the article or the summary says the suit is claiming.

      The suit alleges white officers post on and moderate the privately operated site, Domelights.com, both on and off the job.

      Domelights' users "often joke about the racially offensive commentary on the site ... or will mention them in front of black police officers," thus creating "a racially hostile work environment," according to lawyers for the all-black Guardian Civic League, the lead plaintiff in the suit.

      (emphasis mine)

      So his analogy is completely right. It's like a programmer going to slashdot, at work, posting sexist comments, then joking about it in front of his female coworkers.

    2. Re:Seems pretty obvious by prichardson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, when say something that's obviously offensive to someone who is required to be proximate to you for their livelihood, they can't just walk away. That's why it's generally considered merely ridiculous when someone spouts racist garbage on the street, but as soon as you bring it to the workplace, you break the law.

      "Walk away" is not a possible solution when you're trapped in a squad car with some bigot.

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
  8. Fire their asses. Simple as that. by EWAdams · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're allowed to hold any idiot opinion you want in the USA. You are not allowed to express it on the job. Workplace harmony trumps freedom to be an asshole. This was settled long ago; it's a dead issue. It goes double for cops, who need both to be sensitive to the public AND to have the full confidence and support of their fellow officers.

    Don't like it? Go be a cop in Saudi, where I'm sure you're allowed to be as racist as you like.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
  9. I can relate to that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can relate to that and I'm not even black. I was born in Africa and got my first job in North America as a 'Token Black'. My new employer was rather surprised to see that I was white. Since then, I have on numerous occasions been turned down for a job as soon as the employer learned that I was born in Africa. When I mentioned to a friend that being an African American White causes trouble while job hunting, he said that I have nothing to complain about, since he is an African American White Jew... The only solution to American racism is to start your own company.