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A GNU/Linux Distro Needing Windows To Install?
dgun writes "I recently put together a new PC. When I purchased the motherboard, I noticed that it came with an instant-on OS, a small GNU/Linux distro called Splashtop. I assumed that the OS was on a ROM chip on the motherboard. To my great annoyance, when I tried to boot to this OS, a message said that it was not installed. It turns out that motherboard comes with an install disk for this GNU/Linux OS — that you can only run from Windows, to install Splashtop on the hard drive. First of all, doesn't installing it on the hard drive defeat the point of having an instant-on OS? If I wanted to dual-boot a small GNU/Linux OS, there are plenty that I could choose from. Second, if distributing GPL'ed software by means that completely preclude it from being used without Windows is not a violation of the GPL, should it not be?"
Second, if distributing GPL'ed software by means that completely preclude it from being used without Windows is not a violation of the GPL, should it not be?
No. Stop being absurd. There are plenty examples of GPLd programs meant only for windows. While this might be a little silly in this case there is nothing "wrong" with it and you need to stop getting so upset about it.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
Splashtop is available in ROM(well, almost certainly flash, not actual ROM) on certain motherboards; but that involves actual components, and raises the cost. Presumably, the maker of the motherboards has some sort of bulk licence with the Splashtop guys, so providing the HDD version is virtually free, and adds a bullet point. Pretty useless; but you can see why that happens.
I'm sure quickly enough someone will port it to be installable without Windows. I'm sure it was meant to be for the typical user who has windows installed first, and just wants the instant on one for when they just need the browser quickly and the computer is not on. Someone, anti-MS or not, will port it, I'm sure. Isn't open source great?
The poster of the story didn't even bother to read the link he provided... You can install it from a USB drive from the source. Asus simply doesn't provide that installer on their install CD.
This is a non-story. The distro doesn't need windows to install. The distributor was just being cheap.
Second, if distributing GPL'ed software by means that completely preclude it from being used without Windows is not a violation of the GPL, should it not be?
Is that a trick question? The GPL says nothing about Windows, it just says that if they're distributing GPL'd binaries, you should be able to get the source code from them. Just because you don't like something does not mean it should be illegal.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
As long as you provide the source code on demand, it doesn't matter if the binary only works for Windows or even if you are charged $1000 to get a copy. Splashtop is designed as a secondary system for Windows. Other installers are probably not their priority.
Fortunately, I read the customer reviews at newegg so I was expecting it.
I installed windows then splashtop. Splashtop is pretty but was not worth the time for the installation of windows.
I was hoping I would at least be able to update my bios through it.
It can't update the bios and cannot read any of my partitions.
I changed my bios setting pretty quick to skip it from asking me to load splashtop.
Yeah, the original post is terrible. If he was *really* trying to get people to needlessly hyperventilate he should have titled it "A GNU/Linux distro needing BSD to install?!?!"
Though I dont know the OP, probably the ASUS boards. A lot of them come with at least the software for "ExpressGate" as they call it. My board; the P5Q-SE2, had the install software on the DVD, but I had to manually install to the hard drive, the higher priced boards have basically a USB flash drive attached to the MB. Though I did uninstall the ExpressGate software within a few hours of messing with it.
Second, if distributing GPL'ed software by means that completely preclude it from being used without Windows is not a violation of the GPL, should it not be?
I don't think so. GPL is mostly about granting access and rights to the source, under certain conditions, so you can modify the code to work on your system, not about requiring the author to make it work on your system. If it only runs on Windows, so be it, as long as the source code is Freely available so it can be fixed.
Now, if they're not making the source available through reasonable means, well, that's another problem, and is a violation of the GPL. But the "requires Windows as distributed" thing is the same as lots of GPL software.
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If you cannot use the binary, it wasn't even 'distributed'.
Sure it was. I don't think owning a DVD player is a prerequisite for Wal-Mart selling (distributing) a DVD to you.
How would it be a gpl violation?
It's not. Where OP pulled that out from, I don't know. Nothing in the GPL says "Don't use APIs and programming languages that aren't implemented on more than one OS."
Doesn't this state of matters boarder on the brink of insanity? No, it really doesn't. Don't get so hysterical.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
dawson take this stupid bullshit off the frontpage - it's crappy even for slashdot.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Don't get me wrong, I respect Richard Stallman's ideals and achievements, but there comes a point when Linux should simply be called Linux and not GNU/Linux. Chances are that a system like Splashtop is past that point, since it would probably have few, if any GNU packages included, given that it's based on busybox.
not only terrible...
Second, if distributing GPL'ed software by means that completely preclude it from being used without Windows is not a violation of the GPL, should it not be?
but pretentious shit.
even Stallman's beard would choke that tool out...
"You can kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution."-- Fred Hampton
This isn't such an annoying issue anymore. Most BIOSes these days have a built-in flasher, and can read the BIOS from any local FAT filesystem, including a USB drive. If not, you can format a USB flash drive so that it appears as a floppy and boots DOS normally. You definately don't need a real floppy or CDROM drive anymore (praise Vishnu).
I dream of the day that we see the article titled: "A Windows distro needing Linux to install?!?!"
Here in the future, we have CD-RWs that can be erased and rewritten. We also have DVD+/-RWs that do the same. Enjoy your stay, I'm pretty sure you'll find that things now are... um... rad?
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
I love these motherboard manufacturers. I used to buy ASUS for their new "power saving" feature called EPU. You guessed it, requires Windows. I even went so far as to install Windows just to enable the feature, then reboot into Linux. Didn't work. It doesn't even work with some versions of Windows (Server 2003 x64 I believe).
So, I switched to Gigabyte motherboards. They have the same feature, but they call it DES. Of course, again, it only works in Windows. And again, rebooting into Linux after booting into Windows doesn't fix it.
This might be a nuisance, but I actually BOUGHT both of those motherboards with the intention of using those power saving features... in Linux! I couldn't take them back for a refund, the manufacturer told me too bad, so I'm stuck with them. Nowhere in any documentation from the manufacturers does it state it requires a particular OS. They should be completely honest with their consumer and tell us what features will require a particular OS. Otherwise, I'm going to expect it to work based on hardware/BIOS options.
I feel your pain, but I regret to inform you that if you consider yourself "had", you were "had" when you took it home.
I understand the argument with drivers not being available for Linux. But geez, this is out of control.
Needing a three-digit piece of software to start installing an operating system is incredibly stupid, bordering on insane. Luckily if you RTFA that's not really the case, but I've seen similarly asinine things - like a mainboard that needs Windows, IE and ActiveX to stream BIOS updates from the Internet into your chip (not kidding), along with a host of Windows-only firmware update utilities - sure, you could give those a try in WINE, but why not use a boot disk? Running firmware updates from an OS is a pretty unsafe thing to do in any case - there's a lot more to fail in the process and leave you with bricked hardware.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Well, I've had to use liveCD a couple of times to save data off of a Windows install before reformatting. Does that count?
Anyone got a light for my sig?
Well, I've had to use liveCD a couple of times to save data off of a Windows install before reformatting. Does that count?
Nahh... People use Linux to remove Windows all the time.
I swear some of you people are like the North Korean refugees who are afraid if they touch the ground in South Korea, their hands will rot and fall off.
Your glorious supreme leader and chief asshat-for-life, Richard M Stallman, is lying to you. If you use Windows, your hands will not rot and fall off.
The motherboard manufacturer obviously mistakingly though you were part of the 99% of users that used Windows, and gave you an easy tool to either flash directly (do not attempt this in linux) or flash a usb stick to install it on boot (cross platform would be awkward for that). In the days of incompatible mac applications, they would create hybrid disks with HFS+ layers that would offer the files to you with Mac metadata. You don't have this luxury in linux. There is no right way to distribute binaries, so the best they can do is offer Windows junk and assume if you have Linux, you probably occasionally boot into Windows anyway when you have to complete grownup work.
The issue is not INSTALLING A LINUX DISTRIBUTION. The issue is flashing a ROM on your motherboard. Windows has a much better grasp of the PC specification, for better or worse. I would imagine it's much easier to write a tool that flags the motherboard that it's time to write from (either a ROM or the filesystem) to the ROM on reboot in Windows (ASUS style) or to provide a canned solution to image a usb stick in Windows. If you are a linux user, you might find syslinux and an img file somewhere on the CD that you can easily just dd to a usb stick.
DO NOT attempt this in Wine, it's going to require a part of Windows that that's system/driver oriented. Wine is for high level compatibility, it does not know how to speak to the PC/BIOS/PCI system like Windows does. This is a situation where it's using the part of Windows that makes it an Operating System, not an API layer.
If your tinfoil hat is on so firmly that it can never be removed, and you are now afraid of any system that is not approved by your glorious leader, this might have a better shot of working in ReactOS than it ever would in Linux. Of course, I assume that, like every other PC system, they don't understand the PC specification either, so it's going to get close to working and break something. I take no responsibility but to laugh at you--that is my duty.
The GPL FAQ says no.
I would like to bundle GPLed software with some sort of installation software. Does that installer need to have a GPL-compatible license?
No. The installer and the files it installs are separate works. As a result, the terms of the GPL do not apply to the installation software.
DiskPart is the Windows tool, found in Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Computer Management -> Disk Management in XP. It's comparable to PartEd and GPartEd on Linux, but I prefer the GPartEd live CD because of its hardware drivers (now using Kernel 2.6.30) and rsync and dd for imaging.