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DNA Differences Observed Between Blood and Organs

Scrameustache writes "Researcher working on a rare type of aortic abnormality found that the DNA from diseased tissue did not match the DNA from the blood of the same patients So far it's unclear whether these differences in the blood and aortic tissue are the consequence of RNA editing, which changes the messenger RNA but not the gene, or DNA editing, which involves differences in the gene itself. Based on the evidence so far, the researchers believe the differences resulted from developmental rather than somatic DNA alterations. 'Traditionally when we have looked for genetic risk factors for, say, heart disease, we have assumed that the blood will tell us what's happening in the tissue,' lead author Bruce Gottlieb said in a statement. 'It now seems this is simply not the case.'"

24 of 85 comments (clear)

  1. Chimera by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Perhaps some of those patients were chimeras .

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    1. Re:Chimera by broken_chaos · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(genetics)

      The name comes from the mythical chimera, but is actually an organism (humans can possibly have this) with two or more distinct types of DNA in it's body. For example, if a human had one set of DNA in their kidneys and a different set in their liver.

  2. complexity by martas · · Score: 2, Funny

    is there an end to the human body's complexity? first they tell us dna has all the answers, then they tell us its dna + environment, then they find out its genes + weird stuff everyone thought was garbage and didn't have any functions, now this? WILL IT EVER END?

    1. Re:complexity by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Informative

      In short, no. However, I do think there will be a point where we can know enough to figure out all the known illnesses, however there will always be new ones.

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    2. Re:complexity by jeffliott · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately, yes, if there is nothing magical about the chemistry that occurs in our bodies. This is unfortunate because at some point, we will stop being interesting to look at. However, the idea of a disease free world is probably well worth it, and we shouldn't be discouraged to keep trying to figure this stuff out simply because it is getting harder.

    3. Re:complexity by E++99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because there is "nothing magic" doesn't imply that we will ever understand it all.

    4. Re:complexity by nbauman · · Score: 2, Funny

      I came away envisioning our genetic programme as a Bach Fugue that develops various voices from an initial set of themes.

      More like John Cage.

  3. good old days by Dayofswords · · Score: 2, Funny

    what happened to the days of pre-history and we didnt need this, we just ate grass if we didnt feel good

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    1. Re:good old days by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We died, a lot, mostly early.

    2. Re:good old days by designlabz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, i guess, medicine is what happened. In the "good old days" if you were seriously messed up on birth, you would simply die. But now days, doctors can patch you up, so you give birth to more messed up humasn, that will then breed with healthy humans, and eventually create a race where no one is really healthy. That is called backward evolution and is nicely described in Idiocracy ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ ). Some people would call it inhuman or sick, but in my humble opinion medicine should be limited to fixing injuries and curing viruses and infections, rather than helping non-adapted survive. Life is a game of numbers. Not everyone is meant to win. Just look at complexity of our bodies... there is so many things that can and often do go wrong. Call it God or Evolution... each and every one of us is an experiment... and not all experiments lead to a great discovery... in fact, most of them fail. But, in a world governed by emotions, empathy and cash no one ever cares about real progress. Bottom line: When we started cheating in a game of life, we gave up on evolution. That was the moment we stopped being a specie and started being... a goo?

    3. Re:good old days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not all mutations are "all good" or "all bad". Granted, many are instantly fatal others cancerous, and some serve no known purpose. But to propose that we should limit the genetic diversity to include only genes that we currently think are "good" is foolhardy. Our species - or it's descendants - are best served by having a large base of mutations in the inventory. This way, when nature throws us a curveball, we may have an existing population of humans with the genetics to survive. For example, there are supposedly some tribes in the Amazon who have a mild form of Cystic Fibrosis, which prevents them from sweating their salt out. It seems like a bad idea, until you consider they are living in an extreme environment where sweating is a poor method of cooling due to the high dew point, and it would kill most "healthy" people who lived there. Malaria resistance is improved by being a heterozygous carrier for sickle cell anemia. Et cetera.

      As for your link, I see your IMDB and raise you an XKCD (http://xkcd.com/603/).

    4. Re:good old days by shentino · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't you know that being born in the early half of the century is the number one cause of death these days?

    5. Re:good old days by znerk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to put too fine a point on it, but you are an idiot.

      Fixed that for you. Do yourself a favor - when trying to show how someone else is intellectually inferior, try not to make yourself out to be an idiot with the first line.

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  4. I'm curious and not a Biologist- by mckinnsb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... but would this discovery have any potential legal ramifications on DNA testing, potentially casting doubt on its validity? Their testing method has to be accurate, or else they could not observe the differences in DNA between blood and organ cells - but are the differences enough to cause one person's DNA to be mistaken for another, or are they small enough to not risk a false positive? I'm not a lawyer or a biologist, but thats the first thing that popped into my head.

    1. Re:I'm curious and not a Biologist- by turtledawn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Typically one would compare DNA collected via the same method as the original specimen- thus if you were testing for DNA in a skin flake, you would get a skin sample, while for semen, you'd get a semen sample, etc. It shouldn't make a difference in a well-run criminal case (and I'm not going to touch whether or not DNA-reliant cases are well run).

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  5. What about the rest of the body? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DNA from diseased tissue did not match the DNA from the blood

    And which (if either) matched DNA from the rest of the body?

  6. Re:How... by xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D · · Score: 2, Informative

    Checking DNA "across the board" would be effectively impossible up until very recently. Even now, DNA sequencing is a horrendously laborious procedure (in spite of what CSI would have you believe). You'll note that even in this study they didn't sequence any DNA; they just looked at the expressed mRNA.

  7. title misleading (again) by dltaylor · · Score: 4, Informative

    The researchers did NOT say, definitively, that the patients DNA varied between blood and aorta.

    What they said was that the SEQUENCING showed a difference. The sequencer used cannot distinguish between messenger RNA and DNA differences.

    While it is possible that micro-environment, such as being blood vs. being aorta could result in changes to DNA, it is far more likely to result in tweaks to messenger RNA.

    Since they found the same SNPs in aortic tissue from the organ bank, it could just be a common adaptation for that tissue.

    1. Re:title misleading (again) by rnaiguy · · Score: 4, Informative
      While you are technically correct, you missed the point entirely.

      If you read TFA (not the news piece, the actual one), then you will see that they sequenced cDNA, which means that they have the RNA sequence, but NOT the DNA sequence, and therefore cannot tell whether the changes occurred at the DNA or RNA level (such changes occurring at the RNA is old news). The GP did not quite express this clearly, but is correct in spirit.

      What I cannot fathom, is why they did not simply sequence the DNA of their gene of interest (really just the area around the mutation(s)) for a few patients. This would be really straightforward (can be done in a week), and i woud have thought any reasonable peer reviewer would request it. Overall, there is not enough evidence to support the hype in the news piece, as far as I'm concerned, which explains why it's not published in a high-end journal.

  8. Re: Mosaic by nbauman · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually TFA did raise the possibility of chimeras. My thought was that it could be a mosaic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_(genetics)

    People sometimes get mosaicism after stem cell transplants or organ transplants.

    I saw an interesting example of mosaicism in a medical journal. An infant was born with half male genitals, half female genitals. The most obvious explanation was that he/she was born of two embryos, one male, the other female, that combined at an early stage (but not too early) and formed a mosaic individual, with patches of male and female cells. Mosaicism actually is pretty common in biology. Sometimes you get patches of skin that vary between 2 colors. The later the embryo recombines, the bigger the patches are.

    But this raises the possibility that the DNA of the cells in one developmental branch -- the arteries, or the aorta -- goes through some epigenetic doubling, on a routine basis, because it happened in several samples, even healthy tissue. I wonder if it happens in mice.

    My understanding of the article was that they sequenced DNA -- both strands -- not the RNA. But for reasons I don't understand, Schweitzer said it might be the consequences of RNA editing, to the messenger RNA.

    Actually they got into chimerizaton at the end of TFA:

    In an e-mail message to GenomeWeb Daily News, Navigenics Co-founder and Chief Science Officer Dietrich Stephan said the team's work is interesting and deserves further investigation.

    "Differences between the germ-line genome and somatic cells is well established in cancer. It is also well described that chimeras can result from early DNA changes in early embryonic development that propagate to form regional differences in the genome across the body," Stephan noted.

  9. Re:How... by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

    You'll note that even in this study they didn't sequence any DNA; they just looked at the expressed mRNA.

    I couldn't quite figure that out from TFA. It sounded like they sequenced the DNA and cDNA, but then they talk about mRNA.

    http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/snps-non-cancerous-tissue-may-differ-those-blood-study-finds http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:0S55-4qOoysJ:www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/snps-non-cancerous-tissue-may-differ-those-blood-study-finds+SNPs+in+Non-Cancerous+Tissue+May+Differ+From+Those+In+Blood,+Study+Finds&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Sneaky cache to avoid login

    On the other hand, when the team sequenced BAK1 cDNA from healthy aortic tissue obtained from a Quebec transplant service, they found the same three SNPs as in the aortic tissue from the AAA cases. The researchers verified their findings by sequencing both strands of DNA and repeating the sequencing several times.

    So far, Schweitzer said it's unclear whether these BAK1 differences in the blood and aortic tissue are the consequence of RNA editing, which changes the messenger RNA but not the gene, or DNA editing, which involves differences in the gene itself.

  10. Small Scale Evolution? by NoMoreFood · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am not a doctor nor did I completely follow the article, but I assume the cell lifetimes differ between blood and organ tissues. Given this, would we not expect some some sort of micro-evolution going on in frequently-reproducing cell types?

    1. Re:Small Scale Evolution? by Tacvek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do know that a form of micro-evolution is how the body produces antibodies. The antibody producing cells attempt to produce mutations in the antibody gene. Some form of regulatory system promotes the cells that produce the antibodies that best bind to the pathogen, and destroys others. Eventually antibodies that bind really well to the pathogen will result.

      I'm sure that is is simplified explanation, but that is roughly what I was taught in biochemistry.

      But I don't think mutations otherwise occur at high enough a rate in other cases for micro-evolution to occur.

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  11. Original article by mattb112885 · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those who are interested, the original article is published in Human Mutation journal, and can be found here: DOI It requires access to the journal to read beyond the abstract.