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South Korea Deploys Cloned Drug-Sniffing Dogs

Hugh Pickens writes "BBC reports that six puppies cloned from a Canadian-born sniffer dog in late 2007 have reported for duty to check for drugs at Seoul's Incheon International Airport after completing a 16-month training course. The customs agency says clones help to lower crime-fighting costs as it is difficult to find good sniffer dogs. Only about 30% of naturally-born sniffer dogs make the grade, but South Korean scientists say that could rise to 90% using the cloning method. The puppies, each called 'Toppy' for 'Tomorrow's Puppy,' are part of a litter of seven who were cloned from a 'superb' drug-sniffing Canadian Labrador retriever called Chase at a cost of about $239,000. 'They are the world's first cloned sniffer dogs deployed at work,' says customs spokesman Park Jeong-Heon. 'They showed better performances in detecting illegal drugs during the training than other naturally-born sniffer dogs that we have.'"

154 comments

  1. Standing still by Norsefire · · Score: 4, Informative
    I followed the Snuppy project quite closely, (in fact I am the main contributor to the Wikipedia article - shameless plug), so it's great to see further developments stemming from that. However something that a Kennel Club spokesman said when Snuppy was first cloned comes to mind here:

    "Canine cloning runs contrary to the Kennel Club's objective 'To promote in every way the general improvement of dogs' ... Cloning cannot be used to make improvements because the technique simply produces genetic replicas of existing dogs." [src]

    So what they have now are the best drug dogs they will ever have, their abilities can't improve any - they will be the same as the dog they were cloned from.

    1. Re:Standing still by seekret · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So what they have now are the best drug dogs they will ever have, their abilities can't improve any - they will be the same as the dog they were cloned from.

      At least until genetics research gets to the point where they can modify the dog's genes and improve them in the lab. This is pretty awesome, It's the first cloning story I've heard that was positive and didn't end with disfigured sheep. (i haven't been following the progress on cloning so i wouldn't know if this is the first success story or not)

    2. Re:Standing still by onion2k · · Score: 1

      Their innate abilities can't improve, but that's not to say there aren't other ways that they might be better drug sniffers than their ancestors - improving training, diet, exercise, rewards, and simply having more dogs because they're cheaper would all serve to increase detection rates.

    3. Re:Standing still by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This also raises big problems as far as disease resistance goes -- if all the dogs are genetically identical they will all have identical immune systems, making it far easier for a single strain of disease to wipe out a large chunk of them.

      On a totally unrelated note -- why are we so concerned with drug sniffing dogs? OMG!! Someone wants to get high!!! Quick -- clone some dogs so that we can put them in jail!!! This whole drug prohibition thing is beyond infantile, but I digress. Why not use the time and effort to create better service dogs, or bomb-sniffing dogs?

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    4. Re:Standing still by KlaymenDK · · Score: 1, Funny

      Until they can improve them in lab retrievers, it'll just be a scientific exercise.

    5. Re:Standing still by Barsteward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Canine cloning runs contrary to the Kennel Club's objective 'To promote in every way the general improvement of dogs' ... "
      The KCs objective is complete and utter crap. Since when has encouraging bulldogs and the like to get more deformed to be as close as to the KCs definition of what makes a perfect example of a breed. Bulldogs should be at least twice the height they are now and should be able to breath properly.
      I'd take dog cloning that produces a healthy dog over a KCs definition any day of the week.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    6. Re:Standing still by Norsefire · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i haven't been following the progress on cloning so i wouldn't know if this is the first success story or not)

      a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_%28sheep%29">Dolly the sheep was the first cloned mammal, in 1996. The first success story for canine cloning was Snuppy back in 2005. South Korea (where Snuppy was cloned) have been cloning animals fairly consistently since then. I actually thought they had cloned working dogs long before now.

    7. Re:Standing still by Em+Emalb · · Score: 3, Informative

      you're 100% correct...English Bulldogs are an abomination.

      Did you know they can't even reproduce without artificial insemination? How is that considered a good thing? It's horrible. Our neighbors have one, and we dog-sat while they were gone. The poor thing could barely breathe. It was so bad, that when it was sleeping, if you didn't hear this rasping groaning snore coming from it, you'd think it was dying.

      Unreal. I feel so badly for the dog. It's a sweet dog too, that's the thing of it. I just wish people would stop breeding them the way they do and let nature take its course.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    8. Re:Standing still by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Take your last sentence, add some preamble, and post it to your congressman.

      That kind of sentiment is wasted here.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    9. Re:Standing still by Forge · · Score: 1

      If the Toppys produce viable offspring via natural methods, there is the potential for an offspring that is even better than the Toppy, due to currently unknown gene combinations.

      The same possibility as if the "Father" was extremely promiscuous.

      Not to say this isn't significant. As far as I know this is the 1st time a Mammal has been cloned simply to reproduce a disierable set of genetic traits.

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    10. Re:Standing still by asdf7890 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On a totally unrelated note -- why are we so concerned with drug sniffing dogs? OMG!! Someone wants to get high!!! Quick -- clone some dogs so that we can put them in jail!!!

      It is not quite as simple as that. These dogs are not just out there to find the little bag-o-mary in your inside coat pocket, they are there to pick up on a variety of stronger drugs that are massively addictive and cause the country various troubles such as the extra crime created by the badly addicted running out of money but still needing their next fix, needing to run treatment programs for the addicted, needing to fund medical care for the health complications that result from certain drug use and persist even long after the addiction is dealt with, and so on.

      I would agree that seeing this research go into bomb sniffing as well as drug sniffing dogs, but how do we know it isn't in another lab? This report is specifically about one set of dogs resulting from one lab's work, which happens to center around a particularly proficient drug detecting animal.

    11. Re:Standing still by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Informative

      On the other hand, the Kennel Club's ideas about "improvement" just mean that their committee picked an arbitrary and unhealthy dog aesthetic and then got breeders to breed towards it. There was no "improvement" in it at all...

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7828455.stm

      "The Kennel Club has introduced new standards for 209 breeds, following concerns about ill health in pedigree dogs caused by years of in-breeding. Last year, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals pulled out of Crufts, saying breeding to exaggerate certain features, such as bulldogs' jowls, had led to painful deformities. Now new rules designed to prevent exaggeration and incestuous breeding have been brought in.

      "Ryan O'Meara, from the K9 dog magazine, said the changes were long overdue. "When we breed dogs to a set of physical standards and ignore the health consequences, it's really unforgivable," he told the BBC News website. Mr O'Meara said the bulldog was "a vivid illustration of how wrong we can get it". "Bulldogs have been bred to a point where they die at about seven years of age - in human terms that's just 45 or 46," he said. "They can't breathe properly. They can't support themselves because their heads are too big. They have terrible skin conditions. "The public must be educated to see dogs not for their aesthetic appeal but to think about their health."

    12. Re:Standing still by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      I think they're not cloning dogs because they want to improve, but to increase the availability of a scarce resource, drug sniffing dogs. The genetic enhancement of those dogs still goes on in parallel. So, what's the problem?

    13. Re:Standing still by mea37 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think you can say that immune systems are identical among genetic twins. At birth, if they were carried by the same mother, probably; beyond that there are other variables. Fundamentally similar, but not identical.

      In any case, I'm not sure genetic monoculture is that big a threat here. If you have a sizable population of these dogs living together, I suppose it becomes an issue.

      Why the focus on drug dogs? You've really raised two questions there. The broader social question of "why the focus on drugs" may be valid, but it's beside the point. That's the legal/political background of the story. Given that background, the more relevant question - why drug dogs instead of, say, service dogs - is a simple matter of cost/benefit. Service dogs aren't cheap, but this cloning project cost $40k per dog, and that doesn't even include the normal costs of training each dog.

      For drug dogs, they say that's cheap compared to normal breeding programs once you adjust for the higher success rate. For service dogs, I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say they need to let others pioneer the process and get the cost down.

      Of course, with a relatively large population like service dogs, the concern of a genetic monoculture is greater.

    14. Re:Standing still by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Informative

      if all the dogs are genetically identical they will all have identical immune systems

            Bzzzt - wrong.

            Sorry, I'm a doctor, and I can't let this one slide. Not sure how it is in dogs, but it can't be that much different than humans. Although their immune system will be GENETICALLY the same, the nice thing about immune systems is that they learn and adapt throughout your life. You are not "born" with immunity to certain diseases. You ACQUIRE it. Animals are not like plants where a monoculture is vulnerable to a single pathogen. Plants don't have active, adaptive immune systems like animals do.

            While certain genetic disorders of the immune system would be cloned, in theory, these disorders tend to be rare. I think it would be safe to assume that the goal of the program was to clone healthy dogs. Provided these dogs get their shots, they should be just as "safe" as any other dog.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    15. Re:Standing still by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is not quite as simple as that. These dogs are not just out there to find the little bag-o-mary in your inside coat pocket, they are there to pick up on a variety of stronger drugs that are massively addictive and cause the country various troubles such as the extra crime created by the badly addicted running out of money but still needing their next fix, needing to run treatment programs for the addicted, needing to fund medical care for the health complications that result from certain drug use and persist even long after the addiction is dealt with, and so on.

      I don't think the fact that some drugs are bad for you and can be detrimental to society is really is question -- the only question is whether or not prohibition helps the situation. In nearly every regard, prohibition fails to improve the situation and only serves to exacerbate it. Users get lower quality product with no dosage control, making accidental overdose far more likely. People are much less likely to come forward with drug addiction problems when they can be thrown in prison. Prohibition greatly increases the price of drugs, making addicts far more likely to turn to crime to fund their addiction. Prohibition puts the distribution in the hands of hardened criminals, rather than say, a licensed professional. Prohibition makes no financial sense -- the government spends money fighting the drugs rather than raking in tax dollars from the purchase of the drugs. Finally, and possibly most importantly, making drugs illegal does absolutely nothing to stop people from using them. In fact, there is much evidence to suggest that prohibition increases drug use. I could go on and on, but I think I make my point fairly clear, drug prohibition is entirely infantile and serves no purpose other than to be a huge burden on our society.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    16. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny that kennel clubs claim to promote improvements in dogs, when their policies allow inbreeding and emphasizes maintaining "pure" breeds, which restricts the very improvements that they claim to promote.

      link to akc's official stance on inbreeding:
      http://www.akc.org/about/faq.cfm?page=10

    17. Re:Standing still by Xphile101361 · · Score: 1

      On a totally unrelated note -- why are we so concerned with drug sniffing dogs? OMG!! Someone wants to get high!!! Quick -- clone some dogs so that we can put them in jail!!! This whole drug prohibition thing is beyond infantile, but I digress. Why not use the time and effort to create better service dogs, or bomb-sniffing dogs?

      On a totally unrelated note -- why are we so concerned with bomb sniffing dogs? OMG!! There may be one terrorist attempt on one of the thirty one million flights per year! Panic and throw money at the war on terror!! This whole war on terror thing is beyond infantile, but I digress. Why not use the time and effort to create cuter fluffier puppies so that everyone will be happy, with rainbows and sunshine.

    18. Re:Standing still by noidentity · · Score: 1

      This also raises big problems as far as disease resistance goes -- if all the dogs are genetically identical they will all have identical immune systems, making it far easier for a single strain of disease to wipe out a large chunk of them.

      And perhaps some weakness in their sniffing capabilities that could be exploited.

    19. Re:Standing still by jonadab · · Score: 2, Informative

      > You are not "born" with immunity to certain diseases. You ACQUIRE it.

      You acquire immunity, but you can also be born with inherited resistance, and having an entire population be genetically identical *can* be dangerous. (See, for instance, what happened to the Gros Michel banana cultivar.)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    20. Re:Standing still by smartr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While there is a strong rational argument for drug decriminalization (just look at Portugal), the real problem is that people hate liberty and loath tolerance.

    21. Re:Standing still by jonadab · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, if you want a healthy dog, all else being equal, what you want is a mutt, a dog that resulted not from planned breeding but from an "encounter" between random parent dogs of entirely unrelated stock. Ideally, you want a multi-generation mutt, a dog of such mixed breeding that you can't identify which specific breeds any of its parents or grandparents may have been.

      All else being equal, a clone should be about as healthy as its "parent", but a *population* of clones would not be as healthy as a population with a more diverse genome, because part of the healthiness and robustness of the population stems from the genetic diversity it contains. (And that's true even assuming the clones are perfect copies, so that there's no replicative fading.)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    22. Re:Standing still by SlashBugs · · Score: 1

      Dunbal is right - the adaptive immune system is basically the same in all vertebrates. So dogs will have a small number of directly inherited pathogen recognition receptors (e.g. TLRs) and a much larger (by several orders of magnitude) library of randomly generated ones in the form of antibodies or B- or T-cell receptors. Having a big population with the same MHC types could create a small shared vulnerability to the spread of disease, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Thanks to the adaptive immune system, a monoculture of cloned vertebrates isn't comparable to a monoculture of e.g. plants.

    23. Re:Standing still by somersault · · Score: 2, Funny

      As far as I know this is the 1st time a Mammal has been cloned simply to reproduce a disierable set of genetic traits

      It has been done before. Admittedly it was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    24. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] that a Kennel Club [...]

      Am I the only one who read Kernel Club ?

    25. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      While the GP was wrong technically, he is correct in wondering about the risks of genetic monoculture - it's just not due to "identical immune system." Instead, we have to consider things like disease resistant polymorphisms (see also: innate HIV immunity and resistance) that will be eliminated by a genetically identical population. Although admittedly I think it's silly to worry about a genetic monoculture in animals, especially when the number of genetically identical animals is so low compared to the population (additionally, dogs have incredible genetic diversity).

    26. Re:Standing still by knappe+duivel · · Score: 1

      Why not use the time and effort to create better service dogs, or bomb-sniffing dogs?

      They allowed the dogs to follow their preference - seems 90% chose sniffing out drugs over explosives.

    27. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I have one point of concern about your post. Since Dispensaries (sp?) started up in my home town in Washington state, the street price on a 40-bag has gone up to 50+. The price on a quarter pound has gone up by a few HUNDRED!

    28. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on how many mistakes doctors seem to make, I don't think that qualifies you to be trusted on anything. How do you explain immunity to HIV? Are you seriously saying it isn't genetic?

      People with immunity to HIV lack receptors on their white blood cells - that's a genetic condition. The variety of antibodies you produce is genetic. Auto-immune diseases such as type 1 diabetes, while theoretically having a viral trigger, are genetic. To say immunity is not genetic is absolutely one of the most ignorant things I've heard a doctor say - and I'm in a family of doctors.

    29. Re:Standing still by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Till there's a parasite problem...

      Seems sexual reproduction helps create descendants who are more resistant to parasites.

      --
    30. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Reading comprehension: fail.
      Following the section of the GP that you quoted is

      Animals are not like plants where a monoculture is vulnerable to a single pathogen. Plants don't have active, adaptive immune systems like animals do.

      Your example was a plant. For future reference, an animal example would have been relevant.

    31. Re:Standing still by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > The public must be educated to see dogs not for their aesthetic appeal but to think about their health.

      Huh, when I look at a bulldog I see a really unhealthy dog, what aesthetic appeal? So many of the "Kennel breeds" are crap. They're breeding cripples and twisted "bonsais". Back problems, tendency to become paraplegics, tendency to go deaf or blind...

      As for those who claim that "mutts" are better, I disagree. You can have good working dogs - go ask the shepherds that use dogs. Sure there'll be some "bugs" somewhere, but even "mutts" often have problems too, you just don't know what they are.

      --
    32. Re:Standing still by phillips321 · · Score: 1

      Ditto! My pooch is a Heinz 57 variety. We got him from a rescue centre so haven't got a clue what he is. He looks like a small German Shepheard, collie sized, but with longer softer fur. He works excellent for catching rabbits, is very well behaved, is very clever (sometimes too clever for his own boots) but most of all i don't think he's even been ill except for one time when i went on a canoe trip. 2 weeks of rain and plenty of dirty water made us both ill.

      He'll follow me where ever i go, when i take him up the Brecon Beacons he'll take his own backpack and carry his own food and supplies, like hell will i carry them for him!

      And before i forget to mention this dog is around 10-11 years of age. I'm sure eating a rabbit or 2 every week for his life has helped his health!

    33. Re:Standing still by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Lower demand can, paradoxically, for a short amount of time, raise the price. Until suppliers compensate.

      Think about it. It still costs the same to get illegal drugs there. Everyone is doing the same work, taking the same risk...and less people are buying the drugs.

      Hence the drugs have to be sold for more to pay everyone the same amount.

      What will eventually happen is that people in the illegal drug industry will stop working in said industry, or switch to other drugs, at which point the price will go down past the original amount.

      But the illegal chain stretching from who-knows-where to your front door supplying the drugs takes a long time to compensate, especially as it's entirely possible that 90% of the people in it, who consider themselves 'businessmen', nevertheless have no business sense at all and couldn't foresee a drop in demand.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    34. Re:Standing still by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Based on how many mistakes doctors seem to make, I don't think that qualifies you to be trusted on anything.

      Based upon the effluence of moronic filth posted by Anonymous Coward, you are not qualified to say anything, on any subject, ever.

    35. Re:Standing still by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Your description reminds me of a dog my family ahd when I was growing up. She was half Norwegian Elkhound and half mut. She was a very pretty dog and looked a lot like a German Sheperd in coloration and such.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_elkhound

      Ours was much like the dogs pictured though she was mainly black with light brown and a little grey. Her tail was also not as tightly curled though I only ever saw it not raised when she was in absolute cower mode.

    36. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never imagined that people used to get high in south korea

    37. Re:Standing still by Hatta · · Score: 3, Informative

      These dogs are not just out there to find the little bag-o-mary in your inside coat pocket

      But they'll happily get you for that too.

      they are there to pick up on a variety of stronger drugs that are massively addictive

      Like alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine?

      and cause the country various troubles such as the extra crime created by the badly addicted running out of money but still needing their next fix

      So by restricting supply we increase the prices of these drugs and amplify this problem. How does that help?

      needing to run treatment programs for the addicted

      Right, and how much does it cost to jail these individuals?

      needing to fund medical care for the health complications that result from certain drug use and persist even long after the addiction is dealt with

      What about the health complications that result from gang warfare that wouldn't exist in a regulated industry? Also, would not regulation and destigmatization of these drugs allow people to get treated earlier when it's cheaper? As it is, any addict sees doctors as the enemy, someone who wants to take their drugs away and force them into treatment. Change the legal status and we can change that relationship to something healthier.

      Prohibition is bad any way that you look at it. Every problem it's intended to solve, it only makes worse.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    38. Re:Standing still by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 1

      See, that's the thing that people just don't get about evolution. There is no "better" or "improved", because that would mean that evolution has a goal, an 'ideal' in mind - and it doesn't. It doesn't even have a mind. It is just a word which describes the way in which populations adapt to their environment.

      By increasing the population's frequency of genes that code for "superb sniffer", they have also possibly increased the frequency of genes which code for allergies, cancer or chylothorax. So is that better? It doesn't sound like it to me, but then I have no idea what the future holds. That's the beauty of natural selection and genetic variation - a large variation makes it increasingly probable that a species will survive in some form in the face of a completely unpredictable future.

      So if, in the future, a virus appears which kills Afghan Hounds within a month of birth unless they have a recessive gene which is associated with bad allergies, then those animals which were "worse" than the others in their population suddenly become "better".

    39. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that drug prohibition enforced on a community that ought to be allowed to decide for itself is infantile, but the illict drug trade serves to finance non-state (usually terrorist) actors, such as the Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Drug prohibition provides a very lucrative illegal market for criminal organizations, unfortunately, and for that reason, a great deal of money is spent to remove drugs from the market. Perhaps more unfortunate than losing your "little bag-o-mary" is that most politicians typically don't appear to understand -- or they deliberately choose to ignore -- this central point about how prohibition creates such a lucrative black market in drugs.

    40. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These dogs are not just out there to find the little bag-o-mary in your inside coat pocket
      But they'll happily get you for that too.
      --And so? What's your point? Oh, you mean you want the bags-o-mary to get in? Got it!
      they are there to pick up on a variety of stronger drugs that are massively addictive
      Like alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine?

      --Oh, and you would like to add to those vices? You admit these are bad, but you would love to add more to the list. Way to make sense!
      and cause the country various troubles such as the extra crime created by the badly addicted running out of money but still needing their next fix
      So by restricting supply we increase the prices of these drugs and amplify this problem. How does that help?

      --The goal is to eliminate the supply to the point only chronic addicts seek the drugs out --eliminating the addition of newly created addicts to the problem.
      needing to run treatment programs for the addicted
      Right, and how much does it cost to jail these individuals?

      --They are seeking to place the smugglers in geol, how does that compare to the many potential addicts who would not get addicted? The smuggler to addict ratio is less than 1:1.
      needing to fund medical care for the health complications that result from certain drug use and persist even long after the addiction is dealt with
      What about the health complications that result from gang warfare that wouldn't exist in a regulated industry? Also, would not regulation and destigmatization of these drugs allow people to get treated earlier when it's cheaper? As it is, any addict sees doctors as the enemy, someone who wants to take their drugs away and force them into treatment. Change the legal status and we can change that relationship to something healthier.
      --It's easier when you don't mix issues. Get the smugglers, help the addicts. Also, Korea does not suffer the same "gang warfare" as do the US. Fire arms are severely restricted there.
      Prohibition is bad any way that you look at it. Every problem it's intended to solve, it only makes worse. Incorrect. Prohibiting theft is not bad, or would you actually claim it's bad? If not well thought-out and not done in cooperation with other vectors, yes, it can be troublesome, but well executed prohibition can work better than allowance. Compare the drug problems in Singapore with the Drug problems in Switzerland during their experimentation with allowance of hard drugs.
      -- Hey, if you wanna claim that you love drugs and wanna be able to do them at your leisure, go ahead, but don't try to make it out to be something good for everyone.

    41. Re:Standing still by Beerdood · · Score: 1

      On a similar note, is there any guarantee that the dogs will be better at sniffing for drugs just because they're clones? Perhaps the training they receive has much more to do with their ability to detect drugs than their genetic information. For the cost involved in cloning these dogs, you could probably train a lot more dogs that sniff almost as well as a few good sniffers

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    42. Re:Standing still by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but these dogs will need to be destroyed, because they violate Monsanto's patent covering all gene sequences in plants and animals on earth.

      And they have exclusive rights to everything discovered by the Mars Rover's.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    43. Re:Standing still by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did you know they can't even reproduce without artificial insemination?

      Like most slashdotters then.

    44. Re:Standing still by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      So what they have now are the best drug dogs they will ever have, their abilities can't improve any - they will be the same as the dog they were cloned from.

      Yet they have also preserved the wellspring of this genetic combination beyond the lifetime of one generation. They could experiment with more variations than they could from one individual animal and, if they stray too far into undesirable traits, breed back to be closer to the original even generations later. (Frozen sperm samples still have a limited shelf life.)

      The Toppy's are genetically immortal thanks to cloning (assuming replicative fading is science fiction's way of inventing a problem for purposes of plot).

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    45. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your cloning is ruining our eugenics program damn it!

    46. Re:Standing still by Hatta · · Score: 1

      --And so? What's your point? Oh, you mean you want the bags-o-mary to get in? Got it!

      Exactly right.

      --Oh, and you would like to add to those vices? You admit these are bad, but you would love to add more to the list. Way to make sense!

      Not quite. We understand that the addictive and harmful drugs, nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine are best regulated and not prohibited. The same goes for opiates, amphetamines, cocaine, etc.

      --The goal is to eliminate the supply to the point only chronic addicts seek the drugs out --eliminating the addition of newly created addicts to the problem.

      Except that that doesn't work. Interdiction is difficult enough that you will never capture all the drugs. Demand is always high enough to support a price that will make even large losses insignificant. The tighter you control it, the more profitable it becomes.

      --They are seeking to place the smugglers in geol, how does that compare to the many potential addicts who would not get addicted? The smuggler to addict ratio is less than 1:1.

      How many potential addicts are saved for each smuggler in jail? Considering that drug use tends to go down when drugs are decriminalized, I'd say that ratio is negative.

      Prohibiting theft is not bad, or would you actually claim it's bad?

      Ok, fine. Drug prohibition is always worse than regulation.

      Compare the drug problems in Singapore with the Drug problems in Switzerland during their experimentation with allowance of hard drugs.

      Too many variables. It's much more relevant to compare the drug problems in Switzerland before and after their experimentation with heroin maintenance. That experiment was successful enough that they made it permanent:

      The heroin program, started in 1994, is offered in 23 centers across Switzerland. It has helped eliminate scenes of large groups of drug users shooting up openly in parks that marred Swiss cities in the 1980s and 1990s and is credited with reducing crime and improving the health and daily lives of addicts.

      -- Hey, if you wanna claim that you love drugs and wanna be able to do them at your leisure, go ahead, but don't try to make it out to be something good for everyone.

      Drugs aren't for everyone, and they come with significant social costs. But they're not going away. We need to learn to live with them. It's counter-intuitive but true, that those social costs are minimized by regulation, and maximized by prohibition.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    47. Re:Standing still by Sethumme · · Score: 1

      Assuming Toppy's set of genes is required for genetic evolution/improvement. A better sniffer could potentially evolve out of an altogether different set of parental genes...

    48. Re:Standing still by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      I love mutts (they are all I have ever owned, as we've always gotten shelter dogs) but this sentiment (common though it is) is complete bullshit.

      The majority of our mutts have had the same hip, joint, and elbow problems that people complain about in purebreds. Why? Since they were accidents, there were no genetic checks for whether the parents had those diseases, no care to make sure that recessive traits were not combined, and no thought whatsoever as to whether the parents were good specimens of the breed or genetic rejects. These are all things that every responsible breeder, who loves their dogs and cares about the future of the breed, checks before they create an puppies.

      Yes, there are a ton of problems with purebreds - mostly because people buy purebred dogs based on how cute they look as puppies, and from pet stores. This means they are a) encouraging commercial breeders to select for cuteness as puppies instead of overall health of the dog (this is a problem in some small breeds, who can have eyes that are barely attached because big eyes are "cute") and b) purchasing breeds without any connection to the breeder, so they have no idea whether they made good choices in breeding the dog or not.

      Most of the distorted, unhealthy purebreds you see in the various exposes on bad purebreds are dogs that the major members of the breed clubs would never have bred.

      Now, there's a whole separate argument of how much the AKC works to defend careful breeders and how much it represents the commercial puppy mills, but that's not the industry as a whole. In general, in Europe the breed clubs mandate testing for most genetic concerns.

      The whole point of good breeding is to limit the bad genes in the available gene pool - whether those genes select for behavior, health, or appearance. Many breeders are working very hard to eliminate diseases from the better lines in their breed, and some have been quite successful.

      A mutt just means you are getting random genetics instead of hand-picked ones. If you have a good person doing the picking, you're actually less likely to have problems.

      As for the base idea in this article - it is really so expensive to train drug dogs that it is not cheaper to spend $1k each for decently bred dogs and have 70% of them wash out than to spend more than 100 times that on the dogs themselves?

    49. Re:Standing still by Hyppy · · Score: 1

      I didn't think I'd ever say this, but... Mod parent up.

    50. Re:Standing still by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      First two sentences, fail. If that's all you were referring to, awesome. But, for the last paragraph, he may have a point. The immune system is made up of cells which are based on genetics. How, again, does that make nothing genetic about immune systems?

      Oh, and how do you expect to enforce your "keep quiet rule"?

    51. Re:Standing still by bluej100 · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up--hybridization isn't a magic bullet, though I love my mixes too. See Wikipedia: heterosis.

    52. Re:Standing still by RsG · · Score: 1

      See, that's the thing that people just don't get about evolution. There is no "better" or "improved", because that would mean that evolution has a goal, an 'ideal' in mind - and it doesn't. It doesn't even have a mind. It is just a word which describes the way in which populations adapt to their environment.

      True, but that applies mainly to natural selection.

      Artificial selection, which is essentially genetic engineering without the high tech, does have "better" or "improved" metrics, usually associated with whatever the domestic species is used for. A dog with a more sensitive nose is "better" as a drug-sniffer than a dog without. Ergo, breeding for greater olfactory sensitivity is "improving" the breed, at least in that narrow range.

      Granted, improvement here is a measure of specialization, which may be counterproductive to survival. One of the reasons I dislike the argument that artificial selection is morally superior to genetic engineering is the reality of the extremely negative side effects that breeding for a specific trait can cause.

      --
      Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
    53. Re:Standing still by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      See, for instance, what happened to the Gros Michel banana cultivar.

            You're seriously comparing mammals to plants, aren't you?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    54. Re:Standing still by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      All firs are trees, but not all trees are firs. The immune system is a genetic system, it does some really neat stuff with DNA and RNA to randomly produce all sorts of antibodies. However going from there and making the absolutely false assumption that just because the word "genetic" is involved, suddenly whole immune systems can be inherited, is complete rubbish.

      There are DISEASES that affect the immune system's ability to synthesize antibodies, complement, receptors, and other components of the immune system. However considering that the parent to be cloned is a HEALTHY DOG, the progeny will also be HEALTHY CLONES and will not have any of these diseases. However since an animals immunity consists of a) what it has been exposed to in the past as well as b) a random - RANDOM - assortment of antibodies generated by the immune system, it's fair to say that one clone will not be exactly as vulnerable as the other against a specific pathogen.

      Now it's not my fault if you own an immune system and yet have no idea how it works. However coming "from a family of doctors" doesn't give you the right to insult me without appearing like an ass. I suggest you read up on it if you really want to find out why you were wrong - or conversely continue to live in your ignorance.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    55. Re:Standing still by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Or maybe people don't want to be mugged by crackheads. Ever think of that?

    56. Re:Standing still by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Thank you for clearing that up. A genetic condition could still be a problem; if the clone parent had a genetic condition that hadn't manifested yet, all the puppies will have it too. That's relatively unlikely though.

      By the way, you have the most ironic signature imaginable for this thread.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    57. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although I agree with a lot of what you wrote, I have to disagree with your main point. My wife worked with some service dogs. Labs were the preferred breed of the organization because they're smart, gentle, strong, and relatively calm. But they were not purebred, because it was found that 3/4 lab and 1/4 another suitable breed substantially reduced the medical problems.

    58. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people hate and loathe these things, then why would any of the same people consider them to be desirable? Wouldn't forcing these things on those same people also be against what these things are supposed to mean?

    59. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you certainly want to avoid breeds which are bred for appearance, a good example of where breeding has been helpful are the various types of working dog - cases where good health is actually one of the major factors in selection (others being things such as strength, endurance, intelligence, ability to work with/train the animal, etc). People breeding for healthy dogs will naturally want to avoid inbreeding them.

    60. Re:Standing still by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

      And I will never argue that careful cross breeding can't improve a dog. I'm just arguing that getting a mix automatically doesn't really mean anything in and of itself in terms of health. I mean, that's how all new breeds were created to begin with.

    61. Re:Standing still by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Take your last sentence, add some preamble, and post it to your congressman.

      Then prepared to be ignored to death.

      That kind of sentiment is wasted here.

      It's wasted there too.

      There are many powerful people with vested interests in prohibition. Besides allowing the free trade of drugs is like oil, you'll end up supporting some despot in another country, except instead of the ME, it will be the more popular tourist destinations of Latin America. Not that I'm for Prohibition, I'm actually against it and believe in decriminalising* the less dangerous drugs like marijuana but I understand both sides of the argument.

      * decriminalising != legalising.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    62. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And 99 percent of all dogs tested chose to sniff butts over either of the above.

    63. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How ironic to approve dog cloning as method to crack down on dvd cloning ...

    64. Re:Standing still by PMBjornerud · · Score: 1

      Did you know they can't even reproduce without artificial insemination? How is that considered a good thing? It's horrible. Our neighbors have one, and we dog-sat while they were gone. The poor thing could barely breathe. It was so bad, that when it was sleeping, if you didn't hear this rasping groaning snore coming from it, you'd think it was dying.

      The British KC and many others are breeding dogs for looks at the cost of anything else, including health.

      Several breeds looked quite different 100 years ago, but have bred to have their features exaggerated into an increasingly "perfect" style.

      Health issues, inbreeding (and most likely a huge reduction in the gene pool) for any breed of dog is the result.

      In my opinion, the people should have been jailed for animal cruelty. Dogs are doomed to a life of pain and disease because their genes have are being butchered to give them unnatural looks. In many ways this is worse than what is possible in an act of violence against a dog.

      --
      I lost my sig.
    65. Re:Standing still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same AC here:

      One gaping hole in that bit of logic: the people running the dispensaries are the same people who were dealing illegaly before! The supply chain and the pricing from the grower has not changed, therefore this is an arbitrary shift in pricing. In point of fact, the numbers of consumers with access to prescriptions for medical use is growing rapidly, with every concievable uncomfortable condition (yes, even ATHSMA for pete's sake) becoming a justification for a prescription.

      And you have to know the dealers are still selling to people without prescriptions. Giving a drug dealer a license to sell doesn't mean they will only sell to people with prescriptions. They are going to keep - and have kept - their existing customer base happy and stoned. There is no way to keep stock of exactly how much product they have on a daily basis without rigid supply controls, which simply do not exist yet (see: the war on drugs).

      These factors should serve to drive the price down, until demand skyrockets to the point where the drug is difficult to obtain, which is hard to concieve in today's society (see again: the war on drugs).

    66. Re:Standing still by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      One gaping hole in that bit of logic: the people running the dispensaries are the same people who were dealing illegaly before!

      Well, yes, that is, indeed, the gaping hole of logic there, although I'd suggest it was on the part of your government. I have no idea why you're let drug dealers sell drugs legally, or not regulate them in any way.

      This always struck me as the really stupid logic gap on the part of pot legalization people. I'm against having it illegal, also, but I'm also against just letting people grow and sell it willy-nilly. Yes, people should be able to grow it and whatnot for themselves, and sell plants and seeds, but we do not normally sell legal drugs in this country out of car trunks on the side of the road.

      Just like you can buy an aloe plant, and use that, but people don't normally buy big bags of aloe gell from random people. Or you can own a willow tree, and maybe some crazy people make their own aspirin, but most people just buy it at the drug store.

      We do not normally allow criminals, especially criminals who illegally sold controlled substances, to be pharmacologists in this country. And we do not let pharmacologists make their own drugs, we do not allow them to purchase drugs that have been smuggled into this country, we do not allow them to sell randomly varying potency (Even with plants, you can make their potency fairly consistent..but not if you buy parts of random shipments from god-knows-where.), we require them to keep very exacting records, etc.

      Hell, that's true of damn liquor stores and bars. Your state apparently decided to go straight from 'illegal' to 'child's lemonade stand' level of regulation.

      Seriously, you pro-legalization people...I'm right there with you, it is idiotic pot is illegal. Forget using it as medicine, it should be legal, period. (Other drugs should be legal once a doctor has determined addition, as long as you're in a program to manage and hopefully reduce your addition.)

      But pot needs to be a legal controlled substance like aspirin, or alcohol, sold by actual businesses with actual licenses and real quality and inventory control, not some crazy-ass business that operates like some guy selling hand-painted beads at a flea market.

      But, anyway, what has apparently happened is that demand has, in fact, gone up. So obviously prices have also. That is the normal result...I was just trying to explain why prices would have gone up if demand went down, because I was assuming that, as would have happened in non-crazyville, that legal drugs were being sold by other, new people.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    67. Re:Standing still by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1

      Portugal is hardly the drug heaven that Time made it out to be. It's not that unusual to be fined for possession.

  2. Retirement by Eddy+Luten · · Score: 4, Funny

    And when they retire they'll make for a tasty snack.

    1. Re:Retirement by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I've never understood the western need to demonize dog meat consumption. Granted I wouldn't eat it myself as it's just a little too ingrained as a cultural taboo for me. However as a meat eater in general, I certainly can't find fault with others eating meat, and dogs are just as much animals as cows or chickens, so if they wanna grill em up, then more power to em.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Retirement by TRS80NT · · Score: 1

      "Mmmmm. This dog smells good."

      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.
    3. Re:Retirement by KneelBeforeZod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've had dog meat. I'm in korea now and I've had it both grilled and stewed in soup. Its not bad. Kinda oily and a bit gamy but tastes like meat. Now I wonder what cat tastes like. They're much more worthless than dogs. ~If it has four legs and its not a table, eat it~ Cantonese saying.

    4. Re:Retirement by afabbro · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I've never understood the western need to demonize dog meat consumption. Granted I wouldn't eat it myself as it's just a little too ingrained as a cultural taboo for me.

      Asked and answered.

      --
      Advice: on VPS providers
    5. Re:Retirement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. It's the same with horse meat. Some people go like "zOMG, you barbarian!" when you tell them about tasty, low-fat horse meat while they don't seem to mind about eating the corpses of other animals.

    6. Re:Retirement by Tweenk · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I've never understood the western need to demonize dog meat consumption.

      Apart from the fact that people are unlikely to eat species of animals they keep as pets, dog is unclean according to Jewish tradition. There are few unclean animals that are commonly used in Western cuisines (only pigs are really common).

      --
      Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
    7. Re:Retirement by asdf7890 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hear hear. The same with the disgust some people have about the French eating horse meat. As long as the animal has been well treated in life (including the end of its life not involving unnecessarily stress and pain) I don't see a Korean eating dog or a Frenchman eating horse as any worse than me eating pork.

      There are those that try bring intelligence into it, claiming that the intelligence of dogs makes them more objectionable as food than what we generally consider farm animals. This is crap as you'll almost certainly find your average pig to be no less intelligent than some dog breads (pigs are probably more than those yappy little rats fashionable people carry around).

      My argument stands or falls on the "being treated well" part, of course, and I'm sure you can find many examples of dogs being mistreated prior to being lunch. But the force feeding of geese to produce foie gras, and other examples of abuse closer to home than the east, means that we can't really claim moral superiority on the issue.

    8. Re:Retirement by PatLam · · Score: 0

      I don't think there is fault in eating dogs, or maybe even cats. I think the real, lets call it problem, is that people will less likely eat something to which they are attached. I do not know what the ration of familly with a dog or a cat in asia is, but what I seem to recall from conversations with asian friends of mine, the lack of space is not too friendly to the keeping of pets in one's house.
      So I would guess that asian would be less attached to pets like dogs and cats and therefor, more open to the eating of them. I guess we could compare the eating of horse in western society. If you'd be ridding a horse since you were little and would consider it as you pet, I guess you would most likely not eat it as opposed to someone who I guess never really ever touched or seen a horse in real life would absolutely have no "remorse" about eating it (I'm not counting vegetarians of course, the choice of eating meat or not is not the point of this post).

    9. Re:Retirement by daem0n1x · · Score: 2, Funny

      What do you mean, unclean? I always wash my pigs before I eat them.

    10. Re:Retirement by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      I was already going to Quebec this week and now you've got me wanting to try some horse meat!

    11. Re:Retirement by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Actually, I believe it comes from Judeo Kashrut practices. We (Western European) societies are heavily influenced by the whole Judeo Christian ethic. This however doesn't explain our fascination with Pork (pun intended)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    12. Re:Retirement by G-Man · · Score: 1

      I think part of it is that it implies betrayal/ingratitude, and in a related way, wastefulness. The *only* reason we keep cows or chickens around is as a source of food (meat, eggs) and materials (leather). Dogs, on the other hand, provide not just companionship but a myriad of other services to us: hunting dogs, seeing-eye dogs, seizure dogs, service dogs, search and rescue, bomb- and drug-sniffing, etc. They help the disabled among us. We take them to war. It seems ungrateful to eat an animal that provides us so much. As I recall from a Nova (or perhaps Nature) documentary, we did not domesticate dogs, they (the Asian wolf) essentially self-domesticated - in exchange for our leftovers they hung around and provided warning against predators, particularly at night when we were vulnerable. There was a social contract made, and by killing and eating them we break the social contract.

      Even if one is not so sentimental, there is still the utility/waste aspect of it - why eat an animal that is so otherwise valuable? Eat the stupid cows, that's what they are there for. Don't eat the animal that helps your blind aunt get around every day. I think this helps explain our lesser taboo against eating horse (and perhaps why it is stronger in the US than Europe) - in the Old West horses were vital as the only practical means of transportation. Who would be so stupid to eat something so valuable except in the direst of circumstances?

    13. Re:Retirement by TheLink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Everything from the sea/waters that does not have fins and scales is out too. That includes lobsters, shrimp, mussels, oysters, catfish, eels, squid (calamari :) ). The French, Italian and Spanish do eat a lot of stuff the "Anglos" don't appear to eat nowadays.

      It's not just about clean/unclean. Many of the "clean" animals must also be slaughtered in a certain way (to drain most of the blood out) otherwise they should not be eaten.

      Traditionally mixing meat and dairy products = nonkosher. So that means a pizza with meat+cheese toppings is out...

      Seems that was extrapolated that from the verse which says something to the effect that you should not cook a calf in its mother's milk (which to me is a rather different thing from making a pizza or a cheese burger). We're probably swallowing protozoa or even dust mites every now and then, so trying to stretch things to include more cases/scenarios seems a bad idea to me. But what do I know...

      --
    14. Re:Retirement by TheLink · · Score: 1

      The more types of animals and plants you eat, the less stress on the ecosystem as long as you aren't having something like the "bycatch issue" as in commercial fishing which I consider really terrible.

      Bycatch is what a commercial fishing boat catches and throws away (usually dead) because it's not the sort of thing the boat specializes in catching.

      So a sardine boat might catch other sorts of fishes, squids, prawns etc, but throw away everything that's not sardines. Then a shrimp boat comes along and catches all sorts of fishes, etc and throws away everything that's not shrimp.

      Worse of all, the stuff that is thrown away dead can make up more than 80% of the catch! That's such an amazingly huge waste, that to me they should make that sort of fishing illegal. If you're going to fish for stuff, you should be eating/selling most of it, or let it go alive and _well_.

      This is like someone going to a farm and killing sheep, and cows and dumping them, and only keeping the chickens to sell. Then, someone else comes along and kills and dumps chicken and sheep, and only takes the cows. That rarely happens in farming because the farmers have to pay for it all.

      But in the bycatch case it doesn't cost the fishermen anything much in the short term, but in the long term all of us will end up with the costs.

      --
    15. Re:Retirement by Vintermann · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with eating dog is that they are carnivorous mammals. It takes a lot of grain to feed a cow, it takes a lot of cow to feed a dog. Not very resource efficient.

      I think the metavegetarian diet (only eating vegetables and vegetarians) is more sustainable in the long run.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    16. Re:Retirement by TerranFury · · Score: 1

      why eat an animal that is so otherwise valuable? Eat the stupid cows, that's what they are there for.

      I think it's interesting to point out that this is actually one of the key points in the (non-religious side of the) Hindu argument against eating cows: They produce milk for dairy products and are therefore incredibly valuable creatures.

    17. Re:Retirement by G-Man · · Score: 1

      True enough, and even here in the US, we would think it foolish to turn a good dairy cow (e.g., a Holstein) into steaks.

    18. Re:Retirement by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I've never understood the western need to demonize dog meat consumption.

      I don't actually mind dog/cat meat consumption as such, but I know that preparation of said meat has a lot of cruelty associated with it - such as dogs being beaten severely while alive (to "soak meat in blood" for better taste), as well as both dogs and cats skinned alive, allegedly also for some culinary reasons. There are plenty of videos on the subject on YouTube; if you care to search, you'll find them soon enough. That kind of thing is what I find extremely revolting; and, as I understand, it's relatively common matter in this industry in Korea and China; so until that changes, I'm going to treat the whole thing with contempt such practices fully deserve.

    19. Re:Retirement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's interesting to point out that this is actually one of the key points in the (non-religious side of the) Hindu argument against eating cows: They produce milk for dairy products[; dung for cooking, building, fertilizing; power for plowing, carting;, etc.] and are therefore incredibly valuable creatures.

      Also, dung for cooking, building, fertilizing; power for plowing, carting, etc.

    20. Re:Retirement by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Yep, its about time they threw religion to the dogs and hopefully a whole lot of hypocrascy will go with it. We can blame religion for wars, stupid food choices, stupid uniforms - is there anything we can't blame reigion for?

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  3. Expensive... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    At $40K for a cloned-sniffer dog, you'd think it would be cheaper to just start a normal breeding program. Oh well, maybe they will get cheaper as they increase production.

    I, for one, welcome our cloned drug-sniffing dog overlords.

    1. Re:Expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spending money is what drug prohibition is all about. At the top of the power pyramid, as long as the money passes through your hands, you win. Drug prohibition is an absolute cash cow, pulling billions of dollars through the business of government every year.

    2. Re:Expensive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $40k for a guaranteed good sniffer dog vs. the normal training costs for a dog that might end up useless because it's nowhere near as good?

      Sign me up. Spending more money now adds up to less money later.

  4. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  5. glad that my tax dollars weren't used for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    prohibition doesn't work and is a tremendous waste of resources.

  6. They are naturally born by dj245 · · Score: 1

    'They showed better performances in detecting illegal drugs during the training than other naturally-born sniffer dogs that we have.'"

    I assume these cloned dogs were naturally born too. But they were not naturally concieved.

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    1. Re:They are naturally born by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      No no, these really were test-tube puppies.

      The breed is Canadian Lab, but the appearance is Dachshund

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:They are naturally born by Mushdot · · Score: 2, Funny

      They also knew at that stage the cloning would be a success. The scientists came in in the morning and found the test tube rack had somehow moved closer to the Morphine cupboard.

  7. Nice waste of money by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    Considering the fairly large litter size and frequency that you can breed, this really doesn't make much sense when you look at the cost. One thing we have no problem with is breeding dogs and if priced right those that don't make the grade are easily adopted, helping to put some puppy mills out of business.

    1. Re:Nice waste of money by KlaymenDK · · Score: 1

      The problem here, though, is that they aren't in the dog breeding business, they're in the drug enforcement business. They would have no reason (in the box-thinking sense, not the holistic one) to breed other kinds of dogs than the ones they can use.

      It would be nice if one could achieve, say, a 0.5 ratio of useful sniffer dog puppies to regular puppies, but if one could achieve a 1.0 ratio at double the price, you don't need to bother with all those customers wanting to buy the, um, byproduct. And, really, puppy mills are handled by a different agency altogether.

      Sad but true.

    2. Re:Nice waste of money by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Training isn't free. If you take your success rate from 30% to 90%, you need less trainers, and so on.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Nice waste of money by Norsefire · · Score: 1

      The South Korean Government has been throwing money at canine cloning since about 2003 (they funded the research of the Snuppy cloning) and they've been cash-rolling all the development since then. So either they're spending the money cloning them just because they can (which is what they *have* been doing for the last 3 years) or they spend it on drug dogs. It actually works out cheaper as prior to this they were paying for drug dogs and cloning.

  8. Are they taking preorders? by dangle · · Score: 2, Funny

    'Cause I'm ready for my own Semi-Autonomous Guard Unit.

  9. New Meme? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In South Korea only cloned dogs sniff for drugs.

  10. why bother? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    wouldn't it be cheaper to just end the drug war?

  11. would the spots be the same? by ionix5891 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a dalmatian

    with cloning i wonder if the spots be all the same shape on position?

    anyone??

    1. Re:would the spots be the same? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, that was shown with cats a while ago :)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC_(cat)

    2. Re:would the spots be the same? by Norsefire · · Score: 1

      Nope. The spots are only partly genetically based, also depends on development and a range of other factors. Much like the first cloned cats were a different colour from the original.

      Out of interest though, here's Snuppy, and another shot and here's the dog he was cloned from (on the left).

    3. Re:would the spots be the same? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      My genetics is off on this, but I'm leaning towards not. The type of pigmentation (liver spots, black, different eye colours etc) will be the same, but the location of pigmentation patches will differ.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    4. Re:would the spots be the same? by martas · · Score: 1

      you could always use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint

    5. Re:would the spots be the same? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One way that it could work is how it works in rats: one gene codes for the pigment itself, and another codes for an enzyme that places it. About the same amount of spotting could be expected(if the enzyme kinetics are as simple as all of that, I have no idea) but it is almost certain that the spots wouldn't be in the same locations.

  12. Bah by Norsefire · · Score: 1

    That should be Dolly the sheep. Clicked right through the preview.

  13. Validity..... by Kaptain+Kruton · · Score: 1

    With things like this, I cannot help but wonder how much of the claim is true and how much is just a bogus claim given in an attempt to make themselves appear to be better than they really are. I am not saying that this story is false. I do not know. However, history has shown that when groups invest considerable time and/or money in something (or they simply have something to prove), they want to claim they got the best results possible. Sometimes the claims are spot on. Other times, they either exaggerate their claims of "good results" or fail to mention the problems or failures that occurred along with their positive results.

    I find a few examples of this in the article. For example, South Korea claims that the number of dogs that "meet the grade" required for sniffer dogs could rise to 90%. That is great.... but what is it now? The litter they created only had seven puppies. How can they claim that that number will eventually rise to 90%? Also, the article claims that the cloned sniffer dogs had better performance that naturally-born sniffer dogs. I do not know much about cloning, so I may be totally ignorant in this next statement. However, I fail to see how a clone can out-perform the original, unless their is some type of mutation or variation in every one of the offspring. To me, this suggests that either the results are being exaggerated or the puppies are not identical to the parent. If this is the case and the variations are that easy and significant, I want to know if there are negative variations (such as arthritis or other health problems) that they failed to mention.

    But that is just my $0.02

    1. Re:Validity..... by sanosuke001 · · Score: 1

      Well, from their litter of seven, six are currently being used after their training. That isn't >90% but it's pretty good. Second, I believe what they mean from "cloned sniffer dogs had better performance that naturally-born sniffer dogs" is that the percentage of cloned dogs that are useful in drug sniffing is much higer than the percentage of naturally born sniffing dogs that end up passing the same training.

      Now the reason for needing these dogs is another argument altogether...

      --
      -SaNo
    2. Re:Validity..... by HikingStick · · Score: 1

      Also, the article claims that the cloned sniffer dogs had better performance that naturally-born sniffer dogs.

      From the context, I would assume that the performance comparision would be between the clones and the other non-cloned dogs in the training program. It could have been stated plainly, but then I would have had no reason to post this comment.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
  14. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Canada, sniffer dogs come in bags.

  15. Sounds Similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next step start cloning Storm Troopers

  16. George Clinton was prescient by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

    Dope Dog, an undercover narc with a bark, genetically engineered etc.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  17. In other news... by needs2bfree · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "CBC reports that six soldiers cloned from Canadian-born Rick Hillier in late 2007 have reported for duty to check for terrorists in Afganistan after completing a 16-month training course. The Canadian Armed Forces says clones help to lower fighting costs as it is difficult to find good soldiers. Only about 30% of naturally-born soldiers make the grade, but Canadian scientists say that could rise to 90% using the cloning method. The soldier, each called 'Ricky', are part of a set of seven who were cloned from a 'superb' former chief of defense staff, General Rick Hillier, CMM, MSC, CD, at a cost of about $239,000. 'They are the world's first cloned soldiers deployed at work,' says current chief of defense General Walter Natynczyk. 'They showed better performances in detecting terrorists during the training than other naturally-born soldiers that we have.'"

    1. Re:In other news... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      That is the basic plot of this movie

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:In other news... by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

      Could you tell me what was your point?

    3. Re:In other news... by selven · · Score: 1

      We'll have the technology for fully functional and even ethical robot soldiers years before we get to that kind of cloning.

    4. Re:In other news... by Mr.+Sanity · · Score: 1

      I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but it does highlight a big problem with people's ethical views on human clones. Most people have the attitude that somehow, clones of humans are magically non-people, without basic human rights. So many human cloning pipedreams have what amounts to slavery (or organ harvesting or other unsavory things) as their end-goal.

    5. Re:In other news... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Most people have the attitude that somehow, clones of humans are magically non-people, without basic human rights.

      Most people do? Really? Where did you get the numbers?

      If anything, I'd say that with all the books and movies on the subject of oppression of clones (which inevitably portray clones as either completely human, and generally indistinguishable; or, at worst, different in something, but definitely, you know, human), society as a whole rather has an ingrained idea that clones should be treated as equal.

    6. Re:In other news... by needs2bfree · · Score: 1

      It strikes me that we increasingly look to cloning a certain animal for a particular purpose. If were were to extrapolate that into the future, what is to prevent us from cloning a particular person, in this case retired Gen. Rick Hillier, because they show a desired aptitude, and would that be beneficial for society at large.
      That, and I couldn't think of a comment good enough to be modded insightful. :-

    7. Re:In other news... by INowRegretThesePosts · · Score: 1

      So your post was of the type "I wonder if" ?

      Interesting, then. Your point was not clear, and among the possible interpretations was that you are against cloning research because it is a slippery slope.
      That would be pretty much luddism, with which I disagree.

      My opinion (as if you cared... ): I value human life, so I find horrible any experience that includes the loss of human beings (at any stage of their natural life). So cloning research should be legally required not to discard human embryos or otherwise treat humans as disposable objects. But I see no reason to object to cloning research in general. This South Korean development, for example, has no inherent moral problems that I can see (supposing the dogs don't suffer, etc.). As for cloning dead pets (which occasionally gets on the news), I think it is stupid and cruel to the new pet (which is likely to be born with defects, without a real justification), and I would never do it, but in principle I don't think it should be a crime (depends on the amount of animal cruelty).

  18. Some Questions by LKM · · Score: 1

    So, how viable is dog cloning? Is it easy to clone dogs? The Wikipedia article mentions a success rate of one in 123. Is that one in 123 embryos? Is that considered to be a good or a bad result? Also, do the cloned animals have a normal life expectancy? I seem to remember there were some problems with cloned animals dying quicker than "normal" animals.

    Really curious about this, haven't heard much about it since Dolly.

  19. Joke? by Chysn · · Score: 1, Funny

    So, a drug-sniffing dog and a bomb-sniffing dog are having a drink after work, talking a little shop. Drug-sniffing dog whispers, "Hey, see that woman over there? She's got a gram of cocaine in her purse."

    Bomb-sniffing dog says, "See that man over at the bar, the one with the duck on his head? He's about to have a really bad day."

    --
    --I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
    -- See?
    1. Re:Joke? by A.+B3ttik · · Score: 1

      Go ahead and WOOSH me, because... I don't get it at all. Someone explain this to the rest of us?

    2. Re:Joke? by oldhack · · Score: 1

      Cuz the duck's gonna poop on his drink any minute. Haha. Funny.

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  20. that's part of what makes korea so dumb. by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

    If they had just used blood hounds or beagles instead of labrador retrievers, they would have a much higher percentage of passable dogs.

    Everyone knows blood hounds and beagles have better noses than retrievers.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
    1. Re:that's part of what makes korea so dumb. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone knows blood hounds and beagles have better noses than retrievers.

      It's more than just noses. Labs are often used because they're well behaved (after puppyhood), easy to work with and have noses that are as good as most bloodhounds. Beagles especially would not be a good choice since they are pack hounds and tend not to work well individually. Labs are generally fairly sturdy and able to walk around all day long. Then walk around even more.

      Besides, they're cuter.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:that's part of what makes korea so dumb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dog's nose is not the important part - almost any dog can accomplish that part.

      A drug sniffing dog, however, needs to be slightly mental. As in obsessive. They look for dogs who are unbalanced to the point that they will become strongly attached to some toy and if it's not visible, they will freak out and frantically search for it.
        The next step is to coat the toy with drugs and hide it, so the dog associates those smells with its favorite toy, and will compulsively track down the source of any such scent - the dog's not looking for drugs, he wants his bipolar security blanket.

        If you want to defeat a drug sniffing dog, you can try rubbing a baggie of pot all over the place -- too many false positives will drive the dog and his handler nuts. Hey, it's not illegal for stuff to smell like pot.
        An even easier way is to have a cat with you. If that psycho dog smells, much less sees, a cat (or a raccoon, or squirrel) anywhere nearby he will freak and be almost useless for anything else.

        Check out "Never Get Busted Again", a series of DVDs created by a former narc officer who decided the war on drugs was immoral and ought to be ended, or barring that, thwarted at every turn.

  21. this is the wrong way by bitt3n · · Score: 1

    why are they cloning better drug dogs, when you could completely solve the problem simply by cloning people who aren't drug dealers?

    1. Re:this is the wrong way by grcumb · · Score: 1

      why are they cloning better drug dogs, when you could completely solve the problem simply by cloning people who aren't drug dealers?

      No, because then they'd need performance-enhanced canines to find out who's who, and we'd be reading a slashdot story about drugged clone-sniffing dogs.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  22. kekekekekekeke by mikeee · · Score: 1

    Everybody knows this is just a cover for their work towards zerglings!

  23. Seventh Puppy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...part of a litter of seven who were cloned..." but "...six puppies...have reported for duty..." -- what happened to the seventh?

  24. Oblig. by dp_wiz · · Score: 0

    I for one welcome our new drug-sniffing overlords!

  25. Horse Racing by RawJoe · · Score: 1

    I'm sure whatever body governs horse racing will object/prevent this, but can you imagine. Instead of putting your champion horse to stud, you just allow him to be cloned. 12 identical horses competing against each other.

    --
    ?
    1. Re:Horse Racing by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      That would be interesting, as you could then determine how much of a horse's competitive capabilities are from training and diet, how much is from genetics, and how much is random.

      We'd require a sample size of ~1500 genetically identical horses to test the theories.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  26. Can They Clone "Sniffing" Drugs? by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Make enough to crash the prices, and destroy the profit motive for maintaining a market. Everybody wins! :-)

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  27. Except for smoking? by thaig · · Score: 1

    Hasn't the ban on smoking in public places had any effect? I'm certainly a big fan of that one.

    On another note, would you like big tobacco firms to be given the product of their dreams to sell? How do you think society would cope with that - same as with smoking?

    --
    This is all just my personal opinion.
    1. Re:Except for smoking? by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Hasn't the ban on smoking in public places had any effect?

      Apparently not in the intended way. When I saw the statistics that smokers now score with the opposite sex a lot more than before*, it left me wondering how many teenagers would pick it up just for this very reason.
      (*) The reason is that smokers now have to leave the restaurant table to go outside... where they meet the smokers of the other tables, thus socialize a lot more, thus score better...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  28. Identical Twins not so Identical by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

    Identical twins have different fingerprints. The same principal probably applies to spots.

  29. Keep it up! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    If the world cloned more Canadians, it would likely be a nicer place. :)

  30. Relatively cheap, in fact by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    It costs a lot to train a sniffer dog, far more than $40k, but any electronic equivalent would most likely be much more expensive. Especially a self-guided one.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  31. Good drugs would help Korea by Simonetta · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are two things about the illegal drugs situation that the South Koreans should consider.
    One is that there are basically three types of illegal drugs: the addictive opiates, the 'boosters' activity-increasing drugs like amphetamines/cocaine, and the mind-expander/entertainment/recreationals like marijuana/hashish/cannibus or the psychedelics like LSD/ecstasy.

        The recreationals are basically a political problem. They are only a problem because the politicians say that they are. For society, they are neutral. They increase creativity and productivity in some people, but not in most people. Korea would probably be a little better off if the politicians look the other way at any weed/psychedelic use. Roughly 25% of middle class Americans have been using these drugs at various times of their lives with no real ill-effect on society. The positive effects of these drugs on creativity and their ability to dissipate anti-government political activity means that their use wouldn't be a real problem for Korea. (I know you disagree, but this is the basic reality of the situation). Of course, it will never happen in Korea.

        The boosters are a problem when the manager class in Korea quietly encourages or ignores their use in order to get people to work longer and harder, two or more jobs. This is their main function in the USA. These are harmful substances and will destroy public health with their wide use. The government should discourage the manager class from promoting these drugs onto their workers. Of course, it will never happen in Korea.

        The real danger is the addictive opiates such as heroin. They change basic body chemistry to make it nearly impossible to stop taking them after the addiction transformation, which happens after a few weeks of constant use. Then huge powerful corrupt criminal organizations form to supply this drug to addicts. The addicts provide the drug to non-addicts to get new customers to pay for their own addiction. There is huge increase in theft and prostitution resulting from the introduction of heroin.

        South Korea lives next door to a huge violent corrupt criminal organization across its northern border. When these criminals decide to flood the south with huge amounts of heroin, there will be little that the South Koreans can do to stop them. This would lead to a new very-bloody round of the endless Korean civil war, which nobody wants at this time. Having clone dope-sniffing dogs at the airport will do nothing to keep North Korean heroin out of the South, because the North will use tunnels and boats to bring the heroin into the South. It is possible, but not likely, that a renegade force of the North Korean army will start a drug trade in the South to get money and power for their group. It is more likely that these splinter North Korean criminal gangs will supply illegal booster-types drugs to Japan and the Philippines.

        Primarily the dope-sniffing dogs will be used to find harmless amounts of recreational/entertainment drugs on tourists and western backpackers. Then the authorities will make a big show of imposing draconian and brutal penalties on these unlucky but harmless tourists in order to show that they are 'tough' on 'decadent western influences and lifestyles'.

        However if it weren't for decadent western influences and lifestyles, they would still be as dirt-poor and primitive as they were in 1953. Just another example of Asian duplicity, hypocrisy, and cruelty. Ever wonder why millions of American college graduates are trying to move to crime-ridden neighborhoods in Asian cities in order to open little grocery stores so that their children can have a hope of a better future?

    1. Re:Good drugs would help Korea by oldhack · · Score: 1

      "Ever wonder why millions of American college graduates are trying to move to crime-ridden neighborhoods in Asian cities in order to open little grocery stores so that their children can have a hope of a better future?"

      So... what's in your pipe?

      --
      Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  32. LOVE IS THE DRUG by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 1

    So, Sniff my willie!

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  33. Cost worth it? by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

    That and they could have tried probably about 300 hundred dogs and of those, probably at least a 100 of those that were in that 30 percentile that were 'good sniffers'. Instead they have 16. Granted, there would be training costs, but given the huge number advantage from just buying dogs and getting a 3rd of them that are good sniffers it seems like a waste of time and resources.

  34. Cute Like Video Game Creatures by hyperventilate · · Score: 1

    These dogs are hilarious to watch- they are oddly similar. It is like you are in the Matrix and you notice the same dog over an over again- Uh Oh! Or the video game developer couldn't afford art assets for more than one dog geometry- but its real!
    Mixed feelings about escalating the drug-war technology. We had an airport in South Carolina evacuated in fear of a bomb threat, because a sniffer dog alerted authorities about a soap star's dainty purse with a reefer hidden inside it. Gotta decide what you want dogs looking for, bombs or drugs.
    Of course they have trained dogs and pigs to sniff for cancer, so this is an area of technology where there can be other spin offs.

  35. It will lower the crime fighting costs. Great math by boltik · · Score: 1

    A 239000$ dog will make seizure of 25$ hash stick from citizen cheaper and more effective. Lets assume that police dogs live 10 years, and work every day. If this dog can sniff on average 2.6 hash sticks more than regular dog in one day,he will cover his costs with hashish. The only problem with this plan is that there is no way for a government to get economical or other benefits from confiscated drugs.

  36. Yeah great job assholes by xmvince · · Score: 1

    Now you can sniff out more non-violent, non-harmful, every day citizens! I mean, come on, enough is enough. The government has no right to step in and say I can't consume a certain substance like marijuana. Now they got these dumbass koreans cloning dogs for it? What next, they gonna try to clone people to increase their army? Fuck those bastards

  37. Soldier's are next by inmytaxi · · Score: 1

    followed by doctors, then presidents, finally girlfriends.