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Verizon Asks Court To Affirm 'Most Reliable' Claim

Posted by samzenpus on from the can-you-sue-me-now dept.

suraj.sun writes "Verizon has asked a court to affirm its claim to be 'America's Most Reliable 3G Network.' From the article, 'Verizon Wireless, a joint venture of Verizon and Vodafone Group PLC, asked a US court for a judgment that its advertising claims to be "America's Most Reliable 3G Network" were truthful, which rival AT&T called "misleading" on Monday. In papers filed in US District Court in Manhattan, Verizon said assertions on July 1 by AT&T Mobility LLC, a unit of AT&T, that its advertising was false could not be supported. AT&T, which has its principal business in Atlanta, had filed the challenge with the National Advertising Division of the Council for Better Business Bureaus. Verizon Wireless said its claims of having "America's Most Reliable 3G Network" and "America's Best 3G Network" and "America's Most Reliable Wireless Network" are "truthful, accurate and substantiated" and do not violate the trademark law known as the Lanham Act. It said that AT&T's challenge "relies on the incorrect premise that speed is an essential element of the standard for measuring network reliability.'" I can only hope that at some future date a court will decide which light beer truly is the best tasting.

23 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. Atleast for me.... by SchizoStatic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the twin cities of Minnesota it is the best network. So at least for me in a non scientific study of using friends cell phones. My verizon blackberry is on a better network. Speed/Signal/Non Roaming.

    --
    https://www.speakservers.com/
    1. Re:Atleast for me.... by Tycho · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, but where my parents live, which is in an inner ring suburb of Minneapolis, with Verizon, I can expect one bar intermittently, at best, on the top floor and no reception at all at either the ground level or outside in the yard. As one might expect, there is no reception as well in the partially underground basement. Granted, the signal is better than Sprint or T-mobile, which have no signal, but that's not saying much. I suppose there is the Verizon picocell basestation, but why should anyone have to pay any more than a trivial fee to deal with a poor signal, especially in a suburban area that, Verizon does not want seem to want to fix on its own.

      --
      Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
    2. Re:Atleast for me.... by ground.zero.612 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seconded. I should qualify that with some measurements that I used to determine it to be "best."

      1) Call clearity.
      2) Low call drop, drop-out rates.
      3) Phone selection.
      4) Coverage area.
      5) Price.
      6) Customer Service.

      I find that typically if 1-5 are up to par I almost never have to deal with 6. Also, I have subscribed to Sprint (and Qwest back they were leasing from Sprint). I would place Sprint at #2 in the Minneapolis, MN area for at least 1-3 in the above. I experience the worst quality calls, and high call-drop rates with 100% of my iPhone using friends, but I don't have enough data to determine if that's because the iPhone is a junk phone or on a junk network, or a bit of both.

      --
      "Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
  2. TFS: Which light beer truly is the best tasting by Mr.+Beatdown · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm more interested in which is least filling.

    --
    My fellow Americans, let's restore the death penalty for child rapists. Let's do it . . . for the children.
    1. Re:TFS: Which light beer truly is the best tasting by Leafheart · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bruce: We Bruces do this because we think American beer is like making love in a canoe?
      Bruce: Making love in a canoe?
      Bruce: yes, it is fucking close to water.

      --
      --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
  3. It's called puffery by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

    Definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery
    Example: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31864

    1. Re:It's called puffery by Pinckney · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But isn't reliability an objective quantity? Percent downtime, for example, would be an obvious way to measure reliability. From the same wikipedia page you linked to, both cheapness and safety are listed as objective rather than subjective claims and therefor not puffery; this would seem to be the same.

  4. I'm not even a huge fan of 3G anymore by bbhorrigan · · Score: 3, Informative

    It does not even seem noticeably faster from EDGE, and for tethering it is just barely faster then EDGE or 1XEV. All I've found 3G good for is killing my battery.

    1. Re:I'm not even a huge fan of 3G anymore by Evan+Charlton · · Score: 2, Informative

      One of the huge benefits of 3G is that you can have a data connection while on a voice call. This isn't possible with EDGE. This also means that it's possible for a data connection to prevent a voice call from being received, if it does not yield the radio for an extended period of time.

  5. Light beer by Stele · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can only hope that at some future date a court will decide which light beer truly is the best tasting.

    It's quite possible that none of them are the best tasting. You need flavor to actually have taste, don't you?

    </off-topic>

    1. Re:Light beer by Foolicious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't ever *EVER* call beer off-topic, alright?

      --
      Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
  6. AT&T should focus by wardk · · Score: 5, Informative

    on fixing their

    1. inadequate network
    2. price gouging
    3. treating iPhone users differently than other customers (see 2)
    4. crappy support (see 1)

    I have an iPhone, an original, I love it. but I am SERIOUSLY considering an alternative as I am just flat out disgusted with AT&T and APPLE for their behavior.
    FWIW, our home has 4 Macs, and no PCs.

    the iPhone needs to be opened up to other carriers, plain and simple.

    in my humble opinion, AT&T/Apple isn't a whole lot different than a mob operation and should be broken up with extreme predjudice.

    the bigger question I have is why does the Fed allow phone carriers to consistently scam their citizens?

    1. Re:AT&T should focus by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A more interesting question for me is "do we really want federal courts to get in the business of establishing the truth of advertising claims? Don't we have the Consumers Union for such things?

      If this becomes commonplace, it could get crazy. For example, if 5 or more judges on the Supreme Court were avid Apple users, it could change the landscape of technology in the US. It might be a way to establish gay rights, though.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:AT&T should focus by nine-times · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would be great if *someone* were focusing on creating a ubiquitous high-speed data network that provided open access to anyone using any hardware, so long as they were willing to pay a reasonable and flat monthly fee.

      Is that really such a crazy idea?

  7. Seriously? by rm999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "which rival AT&T called 'misleading'"

    I certainly hope AT&T isn't claiming it is the most reliable 3G network, because that wouldn't just be misleading - it would be lying.

    I can see their point though; in some areas of the country, I know Verizon is clearly not the most reliable network. Their claim is misleading, but I find it funny that of all companies AT&T decided to get into all this.

    1. Re:Seriously? by lorenlal · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well.. I have to admit that I'm impressed that Verizon isn't planning on backing down on this. In fact, they're essentially putting their lawyers where their mouth is... wait.. that didn't come out right.

  8. Bias by Alzheimers · · Score: 2, Funny

    Verizon just better hope that they don't get a judge who's actually used their service.

    Talk about a hostile witness!

  9. This is a court case? by oahazmatt · · Score: 5, Funny

    We're seriously wasting the court's time with this? Here's how I hope it plays out...

    Verizon: We're the best.
    AT&T: Nuh-uh!
    Verizon: Yeah-huh!
    AT&T: Nuh-uh!
    Judge:: Damn it! Both of you shut up! The court finds both carriers are limited to using Edge! Verizon may only use the phrase "Home of the Crap Lobster" and AT&T can only use the phrase "That's what she said"!
    T-Mobile: Good call, your honor. Catherine Zeta-Jones will be by tonight as promised.

    --
    Those who believe the Internet is private,
    find their privates are on the Internet.
  10. ATT dropped my calls... Verizon has not... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I had ATT I would talk to my GF everytime I'd get home. We both had Cingular, which turned into ATT. When that happened, almost every day our calls would get dropped, either in the low-peak hours or in the high-peak hours (from 4pm to 7pm) and a lot of times after getting dropped we wouldn't be able to call each other. I live RIGHT next to an ATT cellphone tower, so wtf I couldn't connect is beyond me, but once our contracts ended we switched over to verizon.

    We would talk the same amount and have NO dropped calls - no misconnections, etc.. ALSO, the sound was a lot clearer. With ATT we would hear static in the phone, not just my phone, but my sister's phone, and mom's phone, both of which are ATT, and different brands of phones (Motorola Razor and LG). Verizon doesn't have that.

    The only I don't like about Verizon is the rollover minutes, which they do not do, but ATT does, which helps a lot. I have yet to go over my minutes and txting limit with verizon, but I've been close to that limit a few times.

    For me, my experience with Verizon has been great.

  11. Re:A decision I would support... by hedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Didn't you notice that they wanted speed excluded? You can get a "reliable" pretty much anywhere if you drop the speed requirement low enough. Being able to depend upon a reliable amount of bandwidth is definitely a part of reliability.

    AT&T around here isn't going to be winning any reliability contests, but they seem to have a point in this case.

  12. Just a publicity stunt to get more businesses by OrangeMonkey11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Personally Verizon has pissed poor service when I had it and my calls were constantly dropped when i walked around. Granted the ATT service I have now isn't that much better and I cannot get 3G service due to both Nextel and Verizon having a monopoly hold on my town so they shutout any high speed cell service from ATT I can go two miles out of town and get 3G from ATT but now while I'm in town

  13. Re:A decision I would support... by CannonballHead · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Being able to depend upon a reliable amount of bandwidth is definitely a part of reliability.

    That depends on how you define "reliable." When you talk about a "reliable old car" you're not saying "I can go 60mph in this thing any time I want." When you talk about a "reliable old computer" you probably aren't referring to speed. When you talk about hardwired phone lines being "reliable" you aren't talking about voice quality, you're talking about it always being available even during power outages. When you talk about a "reliable" network... speed isn't necessarily the issue. Whether or not it is usable is the issue... obviously, 0kb/s isn't very usable, either, but 5kb/s is. Maybe not to watch movies, I suppose.

  14. Let's throw in a ruling of 'Biggest Assholes'.... by daoine_sidhe · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, I don't care if the only other 'network' I have is a pair of goddamned tincans and some dental floss, I will never, under any circumstances, do business with any division of Verizon again after my experience with their Wireless division. I used to be a Unicel customer prior to Verizon purchasing them. I was a Verizon customer for about 1.5 days before their craptastic completely locked down phones and (at least in my area) truly sub-par voice quality just drove me crazy. Despite having the paperwork from both Unicel and Verizon saying that I had thirty days to cancel service, they jacked my bill from the ~$180 (three lines) to ~$650 due to 'early termination fees' and the like. When I complained they agreed to drop it to $380, never sent a new bill detailing the charges, and sent it directly to collections within a week. I'm still fighting with them over this, and I will never, ever allow myself to be suckered into anything with them again, I don't care if the service is free and comes with a solid gold ruby encrusted phone that grants wishes. Fuck Verizon and fuck their service. If Verizon was a person I wouldn't piss down their throat if their heart was on fire.