DHS Tries to Safeguard Against Giant Monster Attack

KnightShift writes "Earlier this month the Department of Homeland Security halted the publication of the Monsterpocalypse Series 3: All Your Base Strategy Guide due to 'national security concerns.' In a statement on its website Privateer Press, which publishes the popular kaiju-inspired collectible miniatures game, reported that 'Homeland Security pulled the shipment for an intensive examination last week when it arrived in the United States. While no comment was made to the nature of the investigation, several crew members within Privateer Press believe the government became concerned over some of the more radical ideals espoused by several factions within the Monsterpocalypse game.' Privateer Press Chief Creative Officer Matt Wilson added that 'I am confident that the investigation's outcome will reaffirm the rights of free speech and protest of the radical environmental group Green Fury at the perceived devastation man is having on our planet as well as the freedom of people to practice religion without governmental oversight — even those religions which may very well bring forth the minions of the ancient Lords of Cthul.'"

Comments

Update

[ls671]

This is last week news, the article linked in the summary was published on July 21th, it looks like the release won"t be affected after all ! ;-))

MONSTERPOCALYPSE SERIES 3: ALL YOUR BASE STRATEGY GUIDE CLEARED BY HOMELAND SECURITY

Bellevue WA, July 30, 2009â"The Monsterpocalypse Series 3: All Your Base Strategy Guide, which was detained by Homeland Security last week, has been cleared of all security concerns and delivered to Privateer Press.
The guide, which contains detailed information on every figure from All Your Base, as well as tactics and strategy tips for using those figures with current Monsterpocalypse figures, is scheduled to be released Friday, August 14, 2009.
For more news and information on the Monsterpocalypse collectible miniatures game visit www.monsterpocalypse.com.

http://www.monsterpocalypse.com/story/monsterpocalypse-series-3-all-your-base-strategy-guide-cleared-by-homeland-security

Re:Update

[Anonymous Coward]

subversive music.. daikaiju.. top band..

Re:Update

[Anonymous Coward]

Was the 'game-as-approved-and-shipped' the same as the 'game-as-orignally-implemented'?

Re:Update

[Sandbags]

The moron in homeland security are far too stupid to realize that holding an item like this for potential security related issues simply GUARANTEED that the press passed on this info, people got in an uproar, and all the terrorists went and P2Pd an electronic copy off the net.

Stopping the physical copy of any printed material is an instant "We need to look at that" indicator. unless all WORLDWIDE copies can be captured, and online leaks prevented, stopping media it at our boarder is completely pointless (especially since extremely few of the terrorists are actually HERE, they're out there with all the remaining copies somone would need to offload cheap if we blocked them coming in!)

Re:Update

[Deosyne]

Rag those fine men and women all you want, but you will regret it when they miss the next shipment and giant monsters are stomping through your kitchen because that subversive literature made it through to a crazed cult bent on ending all life on Earth.

Re:Update

[Opportunist]

I'm somehow more afraid of the DHS blunders than giant monsters, the boogeyman and terrorists combined. The threat going out from them is real and affects everyone. The other three are either not real or very punctual threats that can be avoided with luck or just common sense.

There's no escaping the DHS-related threats.

Re:Update

[Sandbags]

I'm not ragging the peopole who work the DHS, just the morons telling them how to do their jobs.

Fact is, their existance, in many ways, INCREASES our threat level, and causes terorists and other common criminals to bypass commonly accepted routes in order to distribute things that bypass the scrutiny of DHS.

Worse, when stuff like this is leaked to the press, it's only making the entire matter worse, as their incompetence, and sheer expenditures of money for at best moderate improvements in security, has made them an easy and press worthy target of criticism.

They're a walking PR nightmare, and in many ways, that makes the terrorists jobs EASIER.

I do believe we need border and customs security, but scanning for radiation, chemical and biological componds; the use of random spot checks on packages and containers; and the levying of serious fines and penalties for attemts to circumvent the screening system; things like this are good. Scrutinizing items for their printed content??? that's BS and you know it.

My tax dollars at work

[girlintraining]

My tax dollars are being used for the Department of Homeland Security to investigate subversive books? Is this a repeat from the 60s? Do they, in fact, have in their hand a list of known communist supporters? Seriously, the only nice thing I can say about the DHS is that I'm not getting all the government I'm paying for.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[sleeper0]

$100 says the press release was based on nothing more than a routine customs hold - know who customs is a part of? DHS. Know how often international shipments stall at customs for a few days? All the freaking time. Congrats on getting gamed for advertising yet again, slashdot.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[lumenistan]

Sure, you say that now, but you'll appreciate the DHS when they protect you from whatever unthinkable things come forth from R'lyeh...

Re:My tax dollars at work

[NotBornYesterday]

Say what you want, but I for one am glad to see that they are finally taking real action against a credible threat. See? DHS isn't just security theater. I feel safer already!

Re:My tax dollars at work

[siddesu]

Ah, that'd explain very well the zero information or intelligent guessing as to the reasons for the holdup in the TFA. The explanation is probably just too plain for the bloggers in question.

Accidents like this (assuming your guess is correct) are one more reason not to create monster ministries and agencies. The size and the complexity of the monster instantly make every minor action (even if very legal and justified) by a department into a tinfoil-hat conspiracy. And the typical ineptitude of them bureaucrats to keep up with negative PR doesn't improve things at all.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[geekoid]

DHS was specifically created to get around all those pesky government regulations that protect your rights that where put in place between all the previous agencies.

Now they are looking for anything to justify the enormous budget. They have yet to do anything and not look like power mad buffoons looking for an excuse to expand.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[El Torico]

Where is the monster DHS bureaucrat - the monster that takes two hour lunch breaks, goes to conferences, and whines about their pay? I checked the monsterpocalypsegame site and found no mention of it.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[siddesu]

It is an Easter Egg. To get the bureaucrat, you must buy two complete sets, and combine a monsterpocalypse customs officer, TSA-thug, wetback chaser, drunk coast guard sailor and SS guy into one figure, and equip them with a geiger counter, a 24-hour count-down flashing digital clock and a large, gold-plated badge that says "SAVING LIVES".

Re:My tax dollars at work

[54mc]

know who customs is a part of? DHS. Know how often international shipments stall at customs for a few days? All the freaking time. Congrats on getting gamed for advertising yet again, slashdot.

US Customs Service falls under the US Customs and Border Protection agency, a branch of the Department of the Treasury.

The Department of Highway Safety falls under the Department of Transportation.

I can see how this might confuse you. Highways inside the country are often affected by those damned customs officials stopping me when moving from state to state.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[sleeper0]

Hmm... http://www.ice.gov/about/index.htm or http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/about/ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Customs_Service

"Until March 2003, the United States Customs Service was an agency of the U.S. federal government that collected import tariffs and performed other selected border security duties. Before it was dissolved to form part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security as the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection, the Customs Service had three major missions: collecting tariff revenue, protecting the U.S. economy from smuggling and illegal goods, and processing people and goods at ports of entry.

"With the passage of the Homeland Security Act, the U.S. Customs Service passed from under jurisdiction of the Treasury Department to the Department of Homeland Security. On March 1, 2003, parts of the U.S. Customs Service combined with the Inspections Program of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, Plant Protection and Quarantine from USDA, and the Border Patrol of the Immigration and Naturalization Service to form U.S. Customs and Border Protection. The Federal Protective Service, along with the investigative arms of the U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service, combined to form U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Oops?

Re:My tax dollars at work

[rs79]

"Where is the monster DHS bureaucrat - the monster that takes two hour lunch breaks, goes to conferences, and whines about their pay? "

ICANN.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[CharlyFoxtrot]

My tax dollars are being used for the Department of Homeland Security to investigate subversive books? Is this a repeat from the 60s?

More like the 1800's :
"The fears of slave insurrections and the spread of abolitionist materials and ideology led to radical restrictions on gatherings, travel, and - of course -literacy. The ignorance of the slaves was coidered necessary to the security of the slaveholders (Albanese 1976). Not only did owners fear the spread of specifically abolitionist materials, they did not want slaves to question their lot; thus, reading and reflection were to be prevented at any cost."

Re:My tax dollars at work

[Salgak1]

In the meantime, 23 shoggoths, led by Nyarlathotep, will wreak havoc carrying plastic letter openers onto commuter trains, and dangerously opening envelopes with them.. . . .

Re:My tax dollars at work

[Anonymous Coward]

23! All hail discordia. Where's RAW when you need him?

GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[StefanJ]

At least Homeland Security didn't raid their office and confiscate their printers and eat their jelly beans.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Darkness404]

But still, saying that is like saying you were in your house minding your own business when the police burst down the door with no warning only to say "whoops" and being glad they didn't break the glass. Yes, that is good, but honestly it should have never happened in the first place.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, what kind of repressive tyranny are we living under where large international shipments are inspected by customs before being dispatched to their destination in time to go on sale as planned? As freedom loving Americans it is our duty to rise up in revolution against this devastating abuse of power.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Darkness404]

Because it is really that hard to look in a box, take a book, flip through it, realize its all paper and say "yep its clear". That doesn't take 8 days, 8 minutes perhaps, not 8 days.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Anonymous Coward]

7 days for a shipping containers worth of imported product to be flagged, get scheduled for an inspection, be cleared, pay the import duty, have it loaded on a truck, shipped to its destination and delivered is actually pretty quick. Or do you think that they went through all of this to sell a couple dozen books? By all means though continue to rage against the devious machine.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Darkness404]

The point was it shouldn't have been flagged. The second point being is that even if it was flagged its trivial to look through a book then pass it on. Anything longer than the government taking half an hour shouldn't have happened.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Ogive17]

If the shipping paperwork doesn't match the contents exactly, that's a huge issue.... there are many things they might have messed up that would put a hold on the shipment.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because no one smuggles drugs or other contraband inside shipments that claim or appear to be something else, am I right? Just give it up, you've obviously never received anything more than a fedex pack from overseas.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[CastrTroy]

A hold up of 30 minutes doesn't exist due to the fact that not everything is done by a single person. It more likely goes like this. Person A realizes that the marked weight doesn't match the weight of the package (or some other miscellaneous clerical error). Person A fills out a bunch of paper work and puts it in a queue to be processed by person B. Person B has a backlog, so anything going in takes a day or so to get processed. This is intentionally done by person B so that it doesn't ever look like he's not busy. If there's always a backlog, he much have enough work to do. So eventually person B gets around to processing the package, and filling out a bunch of other paper work. Person B then decides it's fine and puts it in person C's queue of things to be sent out. Person C eventually gets around to processing it, and filling out even more paper work. After which it continues on with shipping.

Re:GURPS Cyberpunk all over again?

[sumdumass]

Add about 3 more people in line with a site commander having to check off on it all and you are exactly right. Years ago, before 9/11 and DHS, I was bringing a a shipment of car alternators from Nuevo larado Mexico, I picked them up at the customs center which is technically in the middle of the border between the US and Mexico. Anyways, I was held up for 6 days waiting to get an inspection on the freight and it was just like you mentioned but it took another 3 or 4 people to process everything because of the seal on the container-trailer and all needs to be documented the entire time it's in their custody. Something as simple as a seal not matching will send it to the back of the line until it gets sorted out and the inspecting agent will not open the doors unless the seal matched. In my case, it was a matter of backlogged paperwork from understaffed and over worked agents doing the best they can.

This only happened one time to me in the 20 or so times I picked up from that spot. But that is exactly what can happen and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened this time with more emphasis on searching more and more because of national security threats and all.

Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[dargon]

Hmm, those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it?

http://www.sjgames.com/SS/

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[leftie]

The mess about Steve Jackson Games and Hacker is nothing compared to the many "Charismatic Christians" who have been fighting "Spiritual Warfare" against D & D since the late 70's.

When you figure out the how you are supposed to respond properly when the game store you wanted to shop at has a group of "Charismatic Christians" in front "speaking in tongues" to send whatever various game store demons they were there to send back to hell.

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[CowboyBob500]

Oh that's easy. You tell them you are Lord Beelzebub - Master Of The Underworld and then roar really loudly at them.

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[TheLink]

Strange, I'm a Christian and I don't see evidence in the Bible that Jesus ever bothered to cast demons out of _places_. My reading is he drove demons out from _people_.

Since they have so much time on their hands, maybe you could ask them to go feed the hungry, provide drinks to the thirsty, hospitality to strangers, care for the sick, or visit the imprisoned.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2025:34-46;&version=31;

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[Anonymous Coward]

That actually means showing compassion for your fellow Human being.

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[blackraven14250]

Tends to be a thing people regardless of faith lack.

Re:Sounds like a rehash of the SJ Games incident

[deniable]

Easy, you congratulate them on nailing the part and ask how long they've been playing D&D. "Oh, this guy would make a great cleric!"

What's old is new again?

[davidwr]

It's not like we haven't seen things like this before.

Slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon, this seems like an obvious attempt by this company to call some attention to themselves by claiming DHS was investigating this "guide". The article is a press release from the company with no other corroboration this actually happened and what the extent of this was.

And of course, slashdot bought into it hook, line, and sinker because they are such anti-authority, anti-government poseurs. They just gave them some free advertising. Good job "editors".

Re:Slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I'm pretty sure it happened. I'm also pretty sure that DHS is consistent enough in its actions that such a publicity stunt could be planned out in advance with DHS as the perfectly willing patsy.

Re:Slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

They just gave them some free advertising. Good job "editors".

I sure hope so...

Not the first time

[cybergrue]

A few years back, Canadian Customs blocked an expansion of WotC's board game 'RoboRally'
It might have had something with the expansion's title that was clearly displayed on the side of the shipping boxes.

The name: "Radioactive Waste"

Chasing minions of Cthul

[moon3]

These intelligence, defense and security agencies. Under their nanny oversight like 80% of our manufacturing shifted to China, outsourcing, debts, mortgage and Wall-street meltdowns, ban on vital research, rampart unemployment, undermined business environment.

The real battlefield of today, the economy, we are losing on all fronts. It seams like ever more major technology firms are from Asia today, they have no idea what is important, what to protect or where to help.

Re:Chasing minions of Cthul

[Anonymous Coward]

The real battlefield of today, the English Language, we are losing on all fronts. It seams like ever more major technology firms are from Asia today, they have no idea what is important, what to protect or where to help.

Aaaah, the little babes at DHS

[Alain Williams]

Do you think that someone ought to tell them that was just a game -- ie not real ? You don't suppose that that revelation would cause them psychological damage do you ?

"Cyberpunk" anyone?

[jim_deane]

Cyberpunk raid ring a bell?

it's cover for what is relay going on it's just ho

[Joe The Dragon]

it's cover for what is relay going on it's just how they say that they say that Cheyenne Mountain is just on warm stand-by.

priorities

[JackSpratts]

right, g-men let king kong, son of kong, godzilla and who knows what else wreak havoc on nyc for some 80 years with nary a peep (when was the last time you saw flame throwers on park ave eh?) but pasty bureaucrats pounce on some stupid kids' toy? meanwhile i heard giant ants are infesting l.a. storm drains and there is a huge saucer sitting on the mall right on home-plate! color me disgusted.

early copy?

[mldi]

The truth is Obama is a huge nerd and simply wanted early copies :)

Re:early copy?

[MindlessAutomata]

Stealing using a large display of force? Yeah, maybe you're right.

Re:early copy?

[Missing_dc]

He's not playing, those are training exercises.

This is just another thing he is trying to "Change!"
(rebelling against our alien overlords)

http://monsterpocalypse.com/world/factions/martian-menace

Think of the children!

[w0mprat]

What kind of world are we going to leave our children the if the monsters invade! no bases will belong to them!!

Those of you who no have babby are insensitive clods, get off my lawn!

*meme density = high*

Yay Taxes

[xrayspx]

No no, wait, I don't feel quite safe enough. Are you guys sure I'm in the right tax bracket yet?

DHS put Quaker senior cntrs on terrorist watchlist

[leftie]

Some born again right wingers putting Lords of Cthulhu on a terrorist watch list actually makes more sense than the Quaker Senior Centers Homeland Security put on the TSA watch lists.

Born again right wingers have been "fighting" what they define as "Spiritual warfare" against Dungeons and Dragons for more than 2 decades now.

Really? "Dark Dungeons" site is live to this day

[leftie]

Remember all those extreme "Chick Publications" handouts? Not only are they all

Here's the link to that one "Dark Dungeons" flyer that showed all he players in black robes in a big room with a huge pentagram on the floor and a kid hanging herself because her character died.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

People still pay to keep those websites up, and to get all the fresh copies anybody wants printed.

Misleading headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Headline: "DHS halts publication..."
Actual story "DHS halts importation"

If they had just used an american printshop this would be a non-issue.

Head a splodes!!!!

[rts008]

I just checked the link you provided.

That's either the funniest crapload of hogwash ever, or the scariest brainwash detergent yet!

I'm torn between shitting myself in fear for the fate of humanity, or an Epic ROFLCOPTER®!
I'm afraid to try both at once though...

Reminds me of Flip Wilson in drag claiming:"The Devil made me do it!"

From the above wiki link:

His characters included Reverend Leroy, pastor of the Church of What's Happening Now; and his most popular character, Geraldine, whose line "The devil made me do it" became a national expression.

In 1970, Wilson won a Grammy Award for his comedy album The Devil Made Me Buy This Dress.

[Offtopic]
I used to love watching the "Flip Wilson Show" for it's irreverent humor, and just outrageous general behavior...Good Times! [George Carlin and Flip Wilson were the writers for the show!-see above wiki link for citation]

And yes, I am that old, you insensitive clod!

*meme density = high*

[rts008]

Not bad, kid. Not bad at all.
You could have also went with a Beowolf cluster of children running Linux on toasters to manage the babby-cloning MonkeyNinjaRobots in the Underground Lab, guarded by sharks with frikkin' lazers, while in Soviet Russia: DHS attacks Giant Monster, while old people in Korea email about having to get off someone's lawn, and pirates have them walking the plank while claiming IANAL...Arrgghh!

So many memes, so little time....
I am sure I missed quite a few, though doubtless many others will chime in here to point out my deficiency. ;-)

*apply [not-serious/offtopic/oh-the-irony!] to the above* :-)

Re:*meme density = high*

[Abreu]

Since you didn't mention Natalie Portman or hot grits, you must certainly be new here

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[tjstork]

Does anyone find it odd that Reagan managed to somehow thwart the Soviet Empire, with its vast and genuine spy networks, enormous weapons apparatus, all without either firing a shot or compromising the Constitution? Yet, somehow, we have to do that now against, a bunch of dudes with AK-47s and some Korans? There's far more people in the USA sympathetic to the ideas of communism than islam, and so if we didn't need to spy on ourselves against the commies and the russians, why should we need to do so now against a less sympathetic islam? Could it be that right wingers have forgotten that the central premise of Reagan's vision was that the cold war is a war that would be won based on having more freedom, and not less, and that the same lesson could just as easily be applied to Islam?

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm half with you on this, but you give Reagan far, far, far too much credit. The best thing he did was engage Gorbachev on arms control, even if he did back out of a done deal thanks to the bed-wetters Daniel Pipes and Richard Perle. Really, all one had to do was support our allies and wait for the empire to collapse under its own contradictions. Bush Sr. did a decent job at handling the aftermath, even if he and Clinton did royally screw the economic pooch by letting the Chicaco School boys run wild with the oligarchs in looting the country.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Jawn98685]

Your point is valid, even if your assertion that Reagan was responsible for the fall of the Soviet Empire is badly off the mark.
I believe that all the arm flapping and orange-alerting about "the terrorists" was much more about cover for political maneuvering (raiding the national treasury for one's cronies) than "keeping us safe".
And Lech Walesa and Charlie Wilson had a hell of a lot more to do with when the inevitable fall of the Soviet Union actually took place than Reagan ever did. Read your history.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[tjstork]

And Lech Walesa and Charlie Wilson had a hell of a lot more to do with when the inevitable fall of the Soviet Union actually took place than Reagan ever did. Read your history.

Yeah, that history is, really more revisionism. The facts of the matter is that conventional wisdom in the United States at the time of Reagan was that challenging the Soviet Union head on was suicidal. There was a real thought that even if the Soviet Union did collapse, there would be some sort of a desperate attempt to launch a war to stay in power. Or something terrible would happen.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[tarlss]

Reagan's just one man, and it wasn't just one man. However, he was a very important man and deserves -some- credit. The truth stands that Reagan...and whoever the major players during the communist era were, didn't need to infringe on constitutional rights to take down networks of spies and an evil empire, they did it with military spending. These days we spend WAY more on military spending then we did then and still lose our constitutional rights. It's just a symptom of lawmakers flailing around uselessly trying to find a legislative solution to an executive problem. The solution is spending more money on CIA and FBI agents and training, and NOT uselessly flailing about the civilian population. Homeland security laws pretty much do nothing, terrorists are going to break them anyway. I've never really heard of terrorists being being caught because of our 'new security measures', it's pretty much the tried and true way of relying on skilled intelligence operatives who have modern investigative tools.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[vertinox]

And Lech Walesa and Charlie Wilson had a hell of a lot more to do with when the inevitable fall of the Soviet Union actually took place than Reagan ever did. Read your history.

The Soviets could have most likely survived the loss in Afghanistan but revolutions in Eastern Europe most likely pushed things over the edge.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Eli Gottlieb]

There's far more people in the USA sympathetic to the ideas of communism than islam

Actually, most of the pro-communist left in the USA went over to the Islamist side after 9/11, on the basis that America's troop presence in Muslim countries and support for nations like India or Israel justifies the jihadis. Yeah, it's screwed up, but what do you expect from former communists?

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Mr. Slippery]

Does anyone find it odd that Reagan managed to somehow thwart the Soviet Empire, with its vast and genuine spy networks, enormous weapons apparatus, all without either firing a shot or compromising the Constitution?

What a strange and imaginative world you live in.

The Soviet "Empire" fell over because it had too much central economic planning and because the people of Russia and the other Soviet states chafed under authoritarian rule. The U.S. didn't "win" the Cold War; in so far as anyone won (and really, it was and remains "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"), it was the soldiers and ordinary people who denied the coup attempt against Gorbachev who did.

As for Reagan, perhaps you forget Grenada? Beirut? Iran-Contra? Support for death squads in Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras? Support for Saddam Hussein? Support for the Muhjadeen -- support for Osama bin Laden, for cryin' out loud? Reagan (or at least, the powers behind the figurehead of Reagan) caused many shots to be fired, and used the Constitution as toilet paper. And it was his "borrow and spend" policies and his fetish for deregulation that started us on the path to the economic ruin we now enjoy.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[tjstork]

What a strange and imaginative world you live in

Ah, more sour grapes from another liberal, whose leadership has pretty much been nothing but a century of failure. Failure with Wilson, failure with Roosevelt, failure with Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and pretty soon Obama...

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Locando]

What a strange and imaginative world you live in

Ah, more sour grapes from another liberal, whose leadership has pretty much been nothing but a century of failure. Failure with Wilson, failure with Roosevelt, failure with Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and pretty soon Obama...

Nice red herring you have there. Next time try addressing his points, for instance his objections about who "won" the cold war, and how much Reagan supported other nations' freedom.

As much as I don't agree with your points of view, I've got no desire to go on thinking you're not as intellectually honest as you're making yourself out to be here, and you owe it to the people on your side to cast your views in a better light.

Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[Chris Burke]

Could it be that right wingers have forgotten that the central premise of Reagan's vision was that the cold war is a war that would be won based on having more freedom

Well, freedom and nuke-powered space lasers, but I get your point. :)

Re: Re:Reagan's Rolling Over In His Grave

[DoninIN]

The two things you have to credit to Reagan for, are meeting with Gorby and telling them straight-up we weren't going to lose the arms race, and also meeting with Gorby and convincing him that he (Reagan) wasn't an insane cowboy and that we could actually work towards disarmament or at least peace. But really Gorbachev is the one who let them tear down the wall. He's the one who apparently convinced at least most of the ultra hard liners the west wasn't going to nuke them without warning or invade Russia or whatever they were afraid of, it was MTV & Coca Cola (Consumer culture, and a little freedom) that brought down the evil empire, not star wars or threats. Without the little bit of freedom and the little bit of openness that coup might have succeeded and those crazy bastards could have started WWIII in short order. Reagan's confrontational tactics and arms build up would have been judged very differently by our CHUD descendents in some post-apocalyptic world.

This explains....

[SupremoMan]

This really explains the purpose of this project.

Steve Jackson

[Archfeld]

is probably chuckling about this....