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Apple Tries To Gag Owner of Exploding iPod
David Gerard writes "The Times in London reports that Apple attempted to silence a father and daughter with a gagging order after the child's iPod music player exploded and the family sought a refund from the company. Well, at least they're not Microsoft. Or something."
It's not a bug, it's a feature!
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Well, at least they're not Microsoft. Or something.
It's as if a billion Fanboys all cried out at once.
The 11 year old wearing such heavy makeup (lipstick, mascara and other stuff I'm too manly to admit to knowing the names of) is far more worrying than the burnt out ipod she's holding
What customer centric aura? Apple have been pulling stunts like this for a long time now...
The only reason I have an iPod touch is, at the time I got it, nothing else really fitted the bill for what I wanted.
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
The Times has learnt that the company would offer the family a full refund only if they were willing to sign a settlement form. The proposed agreement left them open to legal action if they ever disclosed the terms of the settlement.
I don't see where it says they can't say the iPod exploded.
I do see where it says they can't disclose the terms of the settlement, which is absolutely normal and common as far as settlement language goes.
Was there something newsworthy here that I missed?
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Why not publicly give the girl a refund and then reiterate the fact that this can happen with ANY Lithium Ion battery, and that the odds of it happening to you are about 1 in 11 million, and even less if you use a modicum of care. Instead they get to meet the Streisand effect, drawing huge amounts of attention to a COMPLETE non-issue, making themselves look like (Godwin alert) Nazis and making the minor tech failure seem like a huge catastrophic problem, surely hurting sales. It really blows my mind that a tech savvy company like Apple can still honestly think that it is possible to hide knowledge in this information age. iDiots...
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
What customer centric aura? Apple have been pulling stunts like this for a long time now...
The only reason I have an iPod touch is, at the time I got it, nothing else really fitted the bill for what I wanted.
So you only purchased it...because you liked the product.?
Sounds like apple made a product that you wanted. Sounds like they design with the consumer in mind.
I've always thought Apple was just as greedy and immoral as Microsoft.
What has America got to do with this story? Several pointers as to why this is a UK story (and no, despite appearances to the contrary we're not part of the US yet):
1. Its a story from the Times - a major UK broadsheet newspaper.
2. He obtained the iPod at Argos which I believe is not present in the US.
3. He's from Liverpool - which, last time I looked, is in England in the context of this article.
4. Trading Standards Institute is the UK consumer protection board.
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
He didn't say they were customer centric, but that they had a "customer centric Aura". The first requires a corporate culture that cares about the customer, the second requires a marketing department that works very hard to make the customer think you care about them. Amazingly a lot of companies work very hard at the second even though the first is much easier to accomplish (and harder to lose).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Really. Li-poly batteries in these applications have no housing except the housing of the device; they're a metallized plastic bag full of gelled chemistry goodness, basically. Crunch it the wrong way and you get an internal short and a runaway reaction, which produces a lot of gas - and the whole battery acts like one of those "popping bags" you can get at 7-11 and toystores.
After eight hour on the phone (at 10p/minute) and six weeks, they finally sent me a replacement (good thing I backed up the disk before sending it in...). The replacement was DoA - it didn't even boot, it just got hotter and hotter until you pulled the battery out.
Two weeks later, they sent me another replacement. This one actually worked, but had the wrong amount of RAM. A few days later they sent me some replacement DIMMs to install. I did, and a couple of months later, one of the RAM slots failed (this having been one of the faults that I had originally posted the machine in to get fixed).
The next repair, they replaced the motherboard with one with a slower CPU. Then they over-tightened the hinges so first time I opened it after getting it back one of them snapped. They then failed to honour this as a warranty replacement (luckily for me, the local computer shop that was handling the repairs decided to absorb this cost to generate some goodwill).
But over the same period I had several Mac-using friends who had repairs happen without any trouble. The most irritating thing was that all of my complaints were met by being told that Apple is consistently ranked top for customer support in independent surveys. This may be true, but it doesn't alter the fact that they consistently and repeatedly screwed up in my particular case.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I've had the opposite experience, personally...
I bought a 24" white iMac (2006). It worked perfect up until it was 2.5 years old, when I started having video issues with it. It was under Applecare, so I brought it into the local Apple store, and they fixed it on-site (took a couple days, unfortunately).
Similar issues re-occured a few days after getting it back, then after a second repair it happened a third time. The computer DID work each time when I got it back, and the symptoms were different each time... so I can't really blame them. They replace all the major componants in the process too.
However, after 2 repairs and 3 similar faults, they replaced the machine with a brand-new 2009 aluminum iMac - with bigger/better/faster everything. Even the lowest-end machine would have beaten my old one, but they gave me the mid-line one anyways. They even offered this without me pushing. On top, they even gave me a free mini-DVI converter for my second monitor because my old cable was a different plug on the old iMac.
So - although I agree this incdent looks horrid, I would argue that they're certainly not as bad as the majority of corporations these days. I'm certainly a lot more brand-loyal than I was 6 months ago.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
I don't think Apple can brush this one under the carpet. What if this were to have happend inside an airoplane at 30,000ft. No so much the explosion but the toxic, carcinogenic fumes would inevitably be curculated around the aircraft explosing 100+ passengers and those in direct contact with the ipod could suffer serious burns, eye damage, etc. To place a gag order on those effected as a messure to cover up the defect is pure negligence and would leave them open to possibly pay huge settlements for future incidents. Seems smarter to issue a warning / disclaimer than to leave yourself open. I doubt it would seriously effect sales, people would still buy them anyway.
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
Tell me again why Apple's not Evil ?
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
I go through a lot of Apple hardware in the course of my business. Any time I have a problem I try to walk into an Apple store to get it taken care of. Their face to face CS is excellent, over the phone is pretty much the same as everyone else.
This is not unusual for companies that position themselves as high end brands. If you can pull it off, pretend you are going to buy a Cartier watch in a Cartier store and they'll outfit you with a Cohiba to smoke and some high end scotch to drink while you make up your mind. Free shoe shine. Ridiculous stuff.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
It is funny, Apple's previous marketing plan had also been to be the hip brand to the money hungry Microsoft. It seems Apple has become worse than Microsoft.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
Second, and more importantly, it's pretty standard for a company to require non-disclosure when a settlement agreement is made. In fact, I'd wager that 99% of all settlement agreements made have a non-disclosure clause and the 1% that don't are made by people without a clue.
A settlement implies compensation, not a simple refund. They are legally obliged under consumer law in this case to give a full *no-strings* refund. If they had *also* offered compensation for the inconvience etc. *then* they would have been entitled to ask for non-disclosure in exchange.
Essentially they were trying to con the customer into signing an unnecessary non-disclosure in return for nothing at all, and hoping they were unfamiliar with consumer law.
This negates your entire argument, which smells badly of desparate fanboyism.
They offered you the opportunity to purchase the new extended warranty because their projections show it will be profitable.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I had a similar situation with the ill-fated (and downright cursed) 800 MHz G3 iBook. The problem did not occur until a year after I had made the purchase and my initial warranty had expired. It was a known issue, so they repaired it free of charge. Four times, about once a year.
The last time it happened they advised me the repair program was coming to an end after several years and encouraged me to get an Applecare program for it. I was out of work at the time so I couldn't afford it. Turns out, if I had, they would've provided me a newer iBook should I experience the problem again (which I did) as they'd exhausted their supplies for the replacement logic boards.
I got a little pissy with them when I called them up after the last instance, but they always remained understanding and professional.
In the end, I found out what the problem actually was. I fixed it with a wedge of cardboard.
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
I've had similar experiences. I actually bought the 12" PowerBook quite a while ago. I never had any trouble with that laptop and I found it to be incredibly rugged. The hard drive went bad after a few years of abuse and I replaced it and it still works today, despite the copious amounts of dings, dents, and scratches I've inflicted on it. I'm sorry to hear you didn't have the same experience I did with the PowerBook.
However, a while back I bought a 13" MacBook. I really don't like large laptops and at the time the 13" MacBook Pro wasn't on the market. A few months after I got it the hard drive basically died on me. After quite a lot of work searching error codes and doing general research I determined that this was the cause. I don't remember exactly, but I believe you get 3 months of AppleCare Protection or whatever when you buy Mac from them. I believe four or five months had passed since I bought it, so I wasn't covered under that, but I still had a 1 year warranty. So I called Apple to tell them that the hard drive died and I need a replacement. I told them exactly how I determined it was the hard drive and that I really just need it replaced (user replaceable on the MacBook). After about ten minutes they explained that I can't call them for this sort of thing unless I wanted to buy a 1 year AppleCare Protection Plan. I told them that I wasn't going to spend money on something like that since it's covered in my warranty. They told me I could go into an Apple store to get the problem fixed.
So I was kind of miffed at this point and a while later I went to an Apple store which was about an hour drive from me. I spoke with their pretentiously named Geniuses who told me that since I didn't have an AppleCare Protection Plan they wouldn't fix it unless I made an appointment in advance. However, if I bought the 1 year plan I could drop it off that day (see a pattern?). I politely told them that I live nowhere near the Apple store and this was a special trip and that I wasn't going to buy a plan just to have them honor the warranty. So they told me to call Apple again.
So again I called Apple. This time the customer service rep said they would replace the hard drive. So they sent me an empty box to return my entire laptop in. After a while, not sure how long, they sent it back and everything was okay. The only really good thing to come out of this was they replaced the top plastic face where the keyboard is since the plastic had chipped away quite severely*.
All in all I think Apple makes some good products. My PowerBook was an amazing laptop, at least for me, but the MacBook is apparently made without durability in mind. The real problem I have with Apple is their customer service which seems more interested in selling you the AppleCare Protection Plan than actually helping you. When I need a new laptop I'll almost definitely not get another Mac laptop simply because of the nonsense I went through.
As always, your mileage may vary.
*I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to put relatively brittle plastic where the magnetic latches close, but a couple years later the plastic has chipped away on a large portion of that piece. When I got it back I made sure to close my laptop ludicrously carefully so it wouldn't chip, and it still did.
Oddly, one of my desired specs for any product is "can use without vomiting slightly".
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Sounds like they design with the consumer in mind.
Delivering products that have the consumer in mind, and having corporate policies that also have the consumer in mind are two entirely different things! I'm sorry, Apple fans, but Apple is just as hognoxious as Microsoft in many respects. Better quality products? Sure, I suppose. Less bloodthirsty management? Nope.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Dell.
As much as I hate them, their warranty replacement is ridiculously simple and fast. Anytime I've had an issue with Dell components under warranty they ship a replacement out without arguing. They don't even require me to ship the item back first, they just ship out the replacement and include a return label that I put the broken part in and ship it back for free.
I can fault Dell for many things, but warranty replacement is not one of them.
I was disappointed in the response by Trading Standards, who compared to other consumer protection bodies around the world are generally good eggs:
"The Trading Standards Institute said that it could not comment on whether such letters were standard across the industry, but that it could understand that Apple would want to protect its reputation by trying to reach a confidential settlement."
Apple isn't trying to protect its reputation. Apple's reputation INCLUDES exploding iPods - albeit a pretty small number of them. What Apple's trying to do by gagging people whose iPods explode is FALSIFY its reputation; making it appear that the problem doesn't exist.
I hate to say it but, there appears to be a little wriggling worm at the center of that nice shiny, tasty-looking apple.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
I would agree with this sentiment, and as someone who owns a lot of Apple gear, I'd add that my experience has been pleasant insofar as the electronics works well, but their customer care leaves much to be desired. I also think Apple's iCulture of iSecrecy has gone iTooFar. The need to control every aspect of the user experience leads Apple to do evil things (whereas Microsoft, on the other hand, is just evil).
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
It's an appalling screw-up: when they explode, there isn't supposed to be any survivor, or evidence.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
That's assuming you were born into the Apple Hegemony.
I personally find OS X to be user unfriendly.
Finder is the chief offender in making for a User Hostile interface.
I've had the opposite experience, personally...
You bought something from Apple and it didn't burst into flame and/or explode?
Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
Does it ever annoy you when on second down an NFL linebacker tackles a running back behind the line of scrimmage and comes up pumping his fist in the air, as if he single-handedly won the Super Bowl?
Does it ever bug you when a major league soccer player scores into an empty net and runs the field with their shirt over their head, as if the Copa Mundial is theirs, alone, for eternity?
And in both cases, they are merely doing their job to expectations?
We're so ill-served by coporations that when one just does the right thing, we celebrate it as a happening. So much so that we even celebrate when one would offer to fix a problem they know about, have avoided a complete resolution to, and decries their supposed technological brilliance and superior engineering.
I do this too. My new Bluetooth headset is fritzed. I was honestly suprised the company didn't even squeak, but asked me to mail it back for a new one. I was gassed. Then I realized, hey, they should do that, it was about 3 weeks old. Well, we'll see.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I had an iBook G4 that broke down during its 1 year warranty period. It wouldn't boot at all. I took it to the local Apple Authorised Service Provider and got it repaired. It came back, and worked for a few days, and then the same thing happened again. It went back for repair again, and this time it stayed for weeks. I'm told by the AASP that it went through a couple of motherboards during this time.
Three weeks after the initial fault, I phoned Apple and asked for a replacement, but was told that there was no way that could happen and I would just have to wait for it to be repaired. I gave the guy an earful before I hung up.
Four weeks after the initial fault, I phoned again. This time the Apple rep described my situation as 'clearly unacceptable' and immediately offered me the choice of a refund or replacement. (I took the refund and bought the latest higher-spec, lower price iBook, and pocketed the change. It's still going strong today.)
Sometimes it really does depend on who you get to talk to at the call centre (and this goes for all companies).
Excepting Syrup of Epicac, of course.
The people to call when this happens are Failure Analysis Associates, an engineering consultancy that analyzes engineering failures. They started with building structural failures, and they've branched out. They call themselves "The Exponent Group" now.
One of the things they do is battery failure investigation. These are the people your class action lawyer brings in to find out what really happened. Companies with a clue use this to fix their manufacturing processes. Whether or not Apple has a clue about this, or whether they just take whatever their China supplier gives them, remains to be determined in court.
No. The standard mouse since 2005 is called Mighty Mouse and has 4 configurable buttons - although you can't visually distinguish them (that actually is a flaw). Prices start at $999 for a MacBook, not $2000.
I still prefer working on my Ubuntu desktop and laptop, though.