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EVE Online's Fight Against Currency Farmers

Massively has a writeup discussing the way CCP Games is battling ISK-farmers in EVE Online (ISK is the game's currency). The developers felt that merely banning sellers whenever they could was not enough, so they introduced a system where players could purchase game-time codes that could then be sold within the game to other players. Since players are unlikely to give up buying ISK voluntarily, CCP's thought is that they can at least keep the money and currency distributed among the real players. Some of the player-base has been critical of the plan, but it's becoming more and more popular as time goes on — and the old ISK-sellers aren't pleased.

21 of 208 comments (clear)

  1. GTC are cheaper by ArtemaOne · · Score: 2, Informative

    I often see the annoying spam from ISK sellers, and their stuff is more expensive than the current cost and return of game time cards. I hope they die from this game soon. I know a lot of people who spend extra time making money so they can play for free (supplying the ISK in exchange for the GTCs). It creates a nice exchange system.

    1. Re:GTC are cheaper by Barny · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yup, pretty much they made a system better than ISK farmers could do. They win the fight :)

      Unfortunately they still bring their servers down in the middle of aussie prime time every night, so won't be collecting my money.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    2. Re:GTC are cheaper by Chatterton · · Score: 4, Funny

      Like Australia ?

    3. Re:GTC are cheaper by PeterBrett · · Score: 2, Informative

      They could always make servers specific to parts of the globe...

      One of the unique selling points of EVE is that there is only one collosal server.

    4. Re:GTC are cheaper by Sobrique · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed. 12-13:00 GMT is in the middle of the day in Iceland, and doesn't clash with EU and US timezone players. Sure, you could have an 'out of hours' downtime, but ... well, there's a lot to be said for having daily D/T when everyone's fresh, alert and in work.

  2. It's a question of what your time is worth. by ekran · · Score: 2, Informative

    A 2 month GTC will cost you around 600-650M isk. With a proper setup and the right skills you can easily make this within 12-15 hours (2-3 days of semi casual playing.) - The way I look at it is that basically you're working for 12-15 hours and the pay you get is $30, which isn't exactly impressive if you compare it with other jobs (i.e. if you take a weekend job every other week and use that money to buy play time.)

    Still, if you don't have the money and you do want to play the game, it's a nice way to keep your account(s) running. I definitely think that the GTC trade has made things less interesting for gold miners and that's a good thing. The Eve economy is good, in fact better than most other MMORPGs I've been playing.

    1. Re:It's a question of what your time is worth. by asdf7890 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The way I look at it is that basically you're working for 12-15 hours and the pay you get is $30, which isn't exactly impressive if you compare it with other jobs (i.e. if you take a weekend job every other week and use that money to buy play time.)

      $30 isn't much to you or I, but for a currently unemployed someone in a poverty sticken nation who happens to have cheap/free access to a 'net connection and the game by some means, it might be a worthwhile investment of time otherwise spent doing nothing.

    2. Re:It's a question of what your time is worth. by Mhtsos · · Score: 2, Informative

      600-650M may be made in 15 hours but it's at least 2 years worth of skill training for the skills and ISK gathering for the equipment. So while they take 3 days to make you're actually cashing in your previous long term investment.

    3. Re:It's a question of what your time is worth. by adamkennedy · · Score: 2, Informative

      $30 isn't much to you or I, but for a 13 year old in a rich world country who happens to have cheap/free access to a 'net connection and the game by some means, it might be a worthwhile investment of time otherwise spent doing nothing.

      CCP doesn't invent the isk from nowhere and sell it, they only facilitate trade. So, in effect, they provide a method to get money INTO the system, but no way to get money OUT of the system. So the cheap labour doing the ISK farming shifts from being leeching, annoying, out-of-universe professionals, and moves to being young players who can earn enough to subsidise the regular play.

      By making it harder to farm, the labour gets more scarce, the value of it goes up, and more young players can earn their way into the game.

  3. Re:How lucky we are to bother ourselves with this by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Taiwan has recently been hit with a devastating typhoon. Some of the pictures show devastation similar to New Orleans after Katrina.

    So, yeah, I'm glad I live here where I can worry about some schmuck in his basement spending his allowance on Eve Online and not over there where landslides are causing whole towns to disappear.

    There was a supernova in NGC 1559 just a few days ago. Whole towns disappear? Try whole planets.

    It's a big world, you know? Worrying about things that happen a thousand miles or a million light years away is just as much a luxury as spending your time playing some game.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  4. Puzzle Pirates did it by Mr2001 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This sounds a lot like what Puzzle Pirates did with "doubloons": a second in-game currency, used to buy game badges (i.e. subscriptions), which you can purchase with real money or trade on a market for the main in-game currency (pieces of eight). Players with more money than time can buy doubloons and sell them for POE; players with more time than money can collect POE and trade for doubloons to extend their subscriptions.

    --
    Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  5. Re:How lucky we are to bother ourselves with this by calmofthestorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Moving of the earth brings harms and fears,
    Men reckon what it did and meant.
    But trepidation of the spheres,
    though greater far, are innocent.

    --
    93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  6. Well, it's about time by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every (successful) MOG that I know of has this problem, and most of them go rampaging off down the wrong track: waggling their banstick at anyone who does things that actual humans will inevitably do.

    Prohibiting real world trades is both laughable futile, and self destructive. Companies that do it are punishing their paying players and themselves: it's truly lose-lose. I'm glad to see that CCP have finally figured this out, and stopped punching themselves in the balls.

    The question that I have is: why did it take them so long to get smart, and why wasn't this designed in from the start?

    It's not a trite question. So many MOG developers seem to plan to fail, by assuming that they can control how their (paying) playerbase chooses to play the game and interact with each other. News flash: if your game is actually successful, then you'll have so many players that you will not be able to police them manually. That is a good thing, and a situation that you should aim to reach.

    This covers security and exploits, account trading and sharing, and real world transactions. If your game has enough players to pay your salary, it has enough players that someone will exploit or explore any mechanism that you provide, and they will come up with their own alternatives to any mechanism that you don't provide.

    If they get hurt through real world trading, then there's no point in you whinging that it's prohibited. It was going to happen, and it will continue to happen until you suck it up and give them a better alternative.

    You can either design on this basis - i.e. plan for success - or you can play catch up, paying money to patch the game while losing subscriptions across your entire playerbase as you go - from those who hate the "exploits" that you left in, and those who hate having their "exploits" taken away as you remove them one at a time.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:Well, it's about time by nickco3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I never understood why someone would want to buy money in an MMO...

      I've bought MMO money, and did it because I have already spent way too much of my life farming cash in meatspace for it ever to be fun in a game.

      The absolutely last thing I want to do when I finally get some computer-based relaxation time is a pretend job. My gaming time is limited and I want to cut straight to the fun parts.

      --
      -- Nick "Hallo this is Beel Gates, und I pronounce weendows as ... WEENdows"
    2. Re:Well, it's about time by Sobrique · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone who does buy money in an MMO, permit me to share with you why I do it - I've been playing EVE for something like 5 years now. Over that time, I've made a lot of ISKs, and have similarly blown up collossal chunks of the stuff, playing EVE. I'm currently involved in a fairly active PvP alliance, and am enjoying it immensely. But one of the things about PvPing is that fundamentally, it's a loss making activity - ships die, tend to be expensive, and it's quite rare to reclaim the cost from your combat activity (loot is profitable, but you need a lot of kills to replace one ship, as most 'loot' is destroyed).
      So I have a secondary income stream, to finance combat activity - I do industry, and go ratting/missioning to make some isks, to buy new toys, to get back on the front line, which is where I'm have most fun.
      However, 'going missioning' takes me time in game, and it's somewhat fun, but I enjoy getting into combat more. So for me, dropping about an hour of overtime pay on 60d GTC for resale, netting me 600mil isks, is equivalent to _not_ spending 20 hours running missions, and instead going and killing pigdogs.
      I don't _like_ the real money for in game cash particularly - I think it's somewhat unfair. But none the less, as the option exists, I'll use it. EVE is one of the few games that is 'self balancing' there though - a bad pilot cannot buy the kind of advantage to stop them being a bad pilot. More, they get a bit of an edge, and someone else gets a nice killmail and a pile of valuable loot.
      Now, if I were to lose my job, and end up with more EVE time, and less payscale, I'd probably change my mind about it - going the other way and 'playing for free'.

    3. Re:Well, it's about time by nedlohs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      PVPing has to be a net negative, otherwise you have an exploit with friends killing each other and looting more than they lose in total.

      The more rewarding (in terms of loot) you make PVPing the more incentive you provide for that "someone is going to kill you in 5 minutes" thing.

  7. Re:They need... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why? So new players could never possibly catch up?

    One of the things that kept EvE stable was that inflation was nominal, if existant. It's the only MMO I know where prices remained almost rock solid stable over the course of its existance.

    One of the key reasons why MMOs eventually crumble was always inflation and the problem associated with it for new players. You wanted to have X. X costs 2000 $money when you start. So you start hacking and playing and finally you have 2000 $money. By that time it costs 4000. You continue the grind, you have 4000. It costs 8000 by now. Will you continue? Or notice that you'll NEVER have the money to buy it and play with the "big boys"?

    Inflation has never hurt gold sellers. Quite the opposite, inflation drove people to them because they noticed they couldn't get the money they need with normal means (i.e. farming themselves), they pretty much had to buy money from goldsellers to get whatever they wanted to have.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Currency farming in space ? by mbone · · Score: 2

    Are they doing this on the ISS ? I was just wondering about the "space" tag on this article.

  9. Re:Price Fixing by cowscows · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't know that much about WoW, but this sort of market manipulation happens in EvE as well. But it's usually not as big a deal, because the economy is so decentralized. If someone's relisted all of the red widgets in a system, there's a few thousand other systems I can look in. Plus because players have so much control over the production of most items in game, producers will notice the relisting, and will increase their production of that particular item. It self-corrects pretty well.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  10. Re:Price Fixing by WuphonsReach · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is something that EVE Online gets *almost* right.

    The limitation that markets are only region wide means that there are a few dozen markets within hi-sec. Plus goods have to be physically moved, which means that goods can gain/lost value solely on distance.

    Where EVE Online gets it wrong is the 0.01 ISK undercutting due to region-wide buy orders.

    (Buy orders should change offered price based on distance from the buy order actual location. Even for region-wide buy orders. This would allow more competition and allow smaller buyers to compete against the big sellers because there would be more niches where the smaller buyers could offer a better buy price.)

    --
    Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  11. Re:Can someone explain PLEX? by jeff4747 · · Score: 2, Informative

    What you describe is the old system.

    In the new system, every 30 days of GTC time is converted into a PLEX, an in-game item. The in-game item can be sold on the regular in-game market. When it's used, it adds 30 days to your account.