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Palm Pre Reports Your Location and Usage To Palm
AceJohnny writes "Joey Hess found that his Palm Pre was ratting on him. It turns out the Pre periodically uploads detailed information about the user to Palm, including the names of installed apps, application usage (and crashes), as well as GPS coordinates. This, of course, is without user consent or control. The only way he found to disable the uploads was to modify system files."
Did Palm not think that someone would figure this out? I wonder what kind of backlash there will be about this and how much more negative impact it will have on the Palm brand.
Is anyone surprised? Hell, I thought all phones did this anyway..nothing to see here, move along please.
Let's see if you can find the trick in Palm's privacy policy:
Personal information is information directly identifiable to you, such as your name, address, email address, and phone number, as well as other non-public information associated with such information. Some examples of how we collect and use personal information include ... [ a list that sounds pretty safe and reasonable]
The operating word is Some examples: legally, they don't say that the list is exhaustive and that they don't collect information any other way. So the long list of nice looking collection is just a decoy!
--
FairSoftware.net -- iPhone dev jobs for geeks by geeks
Ok, add them to the list.
Actually it's getting hard to keep track. Should we start a wiki?
Yes, it is probably not the best idea to upload crash information without user consent, but seriously folks, it's crash data. It's a way for Palm to find bugs in the field that would have been undiscovered in the testing labs.
Google does this all the time. Oh sure, it happens on the server where you can't see it, but the bugs occur and they need some way to log them.
All your phone are belong to us.
No?
#fail
"I love lamp."
I'm totally never buying a palm because of this.
Wait.
maybe it's because their stuff sucks and is super behind the times.
It took them how long to put wifi in one their devices? Treos have practically never had wifi, what is up with that?
Ze Atomic Device! It iz Ztolen!
Story says...
This, of course, is without user consent or control.
But From Palm Infocenter, they say
Palm's own "Terms and Conditions" statement, along with their Privacy policy, detail that Palm basically maintains it has the right to indefinitely collect, process, store and share this information. Users must accept this multipage collection of fine-print waivers and disclaimers in full during the initial device setup process before being able to utilize the device.
I read the privacy policy and it doesn't really seem like it's built to cover this kind of snooping.
And then there's this:
You may choose whether or not to provide your personal information to us. If you choose not to do so, you can continue to interact with Palm, but you may not be able to take advantage of certain products, services, offers, or options that depend on personal information.
So is there a website or a setting on the Pre to disable this thing. TFA seems to say there isn't.
I mean, there's utility in understanding how people are using your device. But not letting your users know you're uploading daily usage stats and not giving them a way to turn it off?
Truly Uncool.
It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
...Palm is still obsolete as my old PDA from 1999. Boo.
0 = 1 + e^(Alt something)
even if it doesn't send any data, just by being in contact with some base station tower every few minutes. That tracking info IS used in civil and LE investigations regularly. And as Hans Reiser found, removing your phone battery to stop the tracking is considered incriminating evidence in its own right.
Oh, I see, this isn't about an Apple product. Carry on then.
OK, I can see sending what applications are installed and what crashes have occurred given the user's explicit permission - I allow my Ubuntu boxes to participate in the "popularity contest" wherein what apps I install are (anonymously) logged, and I will frequently send crash reports to help get the cause of the crash fixed.
In both of those cases *I* decide if it happens, and I was informed of the data being uploaded.
But automatically reporting my GPS locations - HELL NO!!!
Yes, the Pre is a phone - as such it MUST, BY LAW be able to report its location to 911 (here in the US, natch). My phone (which is NOT a Pre) has been configured to turn GPS off for anything OTHER than E911. If I found out that it was NOT abiding by that selection - that it was sending position data to anyone other than E911 - then not only would I be terminating my cell contract, I would be filing suit against the makers of the phone AND the cell carrier.
Again, I can see why Palm would want apps installed and crash data - but WHAT DAMN BUSINESS is it of theirs to know position?!?!
www.eFax.com are spammers
You know, that total control of their users and the things they can and can't do. Apple should not control their users like that, it's just...
Oh wait, you mean someone else than Apple is doing that?
Damn you Microsoft, always controlling your users....
Oh wait, you mean it's neither Apple or Microsoft?
So, you zealots who always bash on Apple and Microsoft... what FUD will you say to protect your precious Palm now? And wasn't Google's Android doing something similar too?
The solution is easy: get a cellphone that's JUST A GODAMN PHONE.
They may be if the crash is in a location based application...
Just sayin'. We need more detail on what the crash logs were from.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In the spirit of blaming Apple for Palm's misbehavior with their iTunes stunt please respond here with how this is also Apples fault.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Although I am not your customer, were I your customer, I would gladly be a beta tester and give you all sorts of useful information (automated or otherwise) about how I used your products.
This being said, I would hope that you would have the courtesy of asking me to opt-in, rather than assuming that you own my usage habits.
I am not sure I would want them knowing what apps I have installed either. Why do they need to know? If it is a 3rd party application and it crashes have a filed stored on the phone so the crash handling application knows where to send the dump file or whatever. Palm does not need to know that my google maps application crashed, google needs to know. So send the error report directly to google.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
I'd use this as an opportunity to learn of an existing bug which both crashes the Pre and is easy to reproduce. From there, it's more of a field trip.
CRASH REPORT -- Hardware store
CRASH REPORT -- Army/Navy Supply store
CRASH REPORT -- Tree outside Megan Fox's bedroom window
CRASH REPORT -- Megan Fox's bedroom
CRASH REPORT -- County fair
CRASH REPORT -- Quarry
CRASH REPORT -- Petting zoo (after hours)
Hmmm, lets see how accurate 1984 is in this case:
An ultra-facist, ultra controlling government that...
1) Watches, analyzes, and controls your every move to identify possible revolutionaries.
2) Controls all commerce and businesses
3) Outlaws sex for pleasure (even with your spouse)
4) Convinces children to rat on their own parents.
5) Uses constant warefare, drugs, and pornography to subdue the masses
6) Re-writes history to suit its present needs
7) Tortures and/or kills anyone who resists it
8) Encourages (forces?) racism and nationalism to the point of incoherent rage in every citizen.
versus a private company that...
1) Retrieves information when your phone software crashes
Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.
Or you could see them as self-fulfilling. Who's to say that they would even have thought of such things without the fiction giving them the idea?
but WHAT DAMN BUSINESS is it of theirs to know position?!?!
To see if the issue is related to the towers you are connecting to.
Woops, looks like /. is hammering the server. Here's a copy of the text (as of now):
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
What idiot thought doing this without user opt-in was a good idea?
To see if the issue is related to the towers you are connecting to.
Which they get by the cellular infrastructure backhaul, rather than by GPS.
www.eFax.com are spammers
http://www.precentral.net/fyi-pre-reports-your-location-palm
When PreCentral's people asked Palm about this, their official statement to them in part was:
Our goal has been to follow industry best practices on data collection, use, and encryption. Like most EULAs and privacy policies, though, the terms tend to get pretty detailed about potential scenarios. And because the terms are meant to notify users about all possible variations, we wanted to err on the side of over notifying rather than under notifying users through the terms of use. So there's really nothing here "beyond the norm" for a EULA or privacy policy.
The provision you've quoted explains why Palm might collect user information. For example, we collect and transmit users' email addresses, email content, contact lists, etc. to provide WebOS services such as back-up and restore for the purpose of backing up that data and helping users restore the data if needed (in that case, it would not be limited to just the email address collected at registration). If users someday make purchases on their device through the Apps Catalog, then we would also collect payment information to process the transaction.
At all times, we'd be strictly bound by our privacy policy. Our privacy policy, like virtually all others in the industry, contemplate our using data to provide services users have requested, improve our products and services (hence the reference to Palm's own "sales and marketing" in the privacy policy), troubleshoot, etc. We also refer to affiliates because Palm is a global company, and we may need to transmit data from our European subsidiary to the parent company. We're obviously not a conglomerate with many different subs and affiliates, but the terms specifically mention subs and affiliates so that we can comply with European data protection laws that require us to spell out that data collected by a European sub can be transmitted to another part of the company.
Canada's privacy laws disallows this, especially not notifying the user. As soon as it leaks out to the CRTC and the Privacy Commish, they may disallow this device for sale in Canada later this month.
But my god, what was Palm thinking? Disappointing.
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
...with the realization that conventional advertising no-longer works the way it once did --- companies are mining data to deliver targeted advertising to consumers.
Nothing to see here.
Move along.
"--wine; a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy." --Benjamin Franklin
Actually, it's the cellular companies that want that data more. By having the phones report back on position and cell tower ID strengths, they can more easily map "dead zones" in their coverage areas, telling them where to put new towers to hit the most people.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
If this is true, it strikes at the very heart of the products saleability. The pre is quite the phone in geek worlds, which unfortunatly for them, tend to be the ones that care about stuff like this!
By doing this they have alienated a real core market that could have made the Pre a good geek phone rather than a has been phone.
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
Palm provides an OTA backup service to ease restores. You opt into it when you start the phone and can turn it off at any time. Obviously it sends this and all sorts of data to their servers. Considering that TFA doesn't mention disabling this service, I have to wonder if he's a) right b) malicious c) stupid.
Palm announces a new model that doesn't phone home. It will be called the "Palm Post"
Allows Google to automatically collect anonymouse location data to improve the quality of location services.
OK, OK, OK, it is google which is collecting the data. Since they are not evil, it should not matter. A simple case of false alarm. Cool down guys, there is nothing to see here, move along.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Do people not think that AT&T doesn't know where you are with your iphone? Or that Apple doesn't know what apps you downloaded from the app store?
It might not be fun to think about, but the cell phone companies know where you are calling from, who you are calling and how long you talk to everyone.
Come to think of it, so do the land line companies.
As for smart phones, particularly if you have loaded apps for local weather, news, movies, food, etc. Exactly how is it supposed to work without the company knowing your location?
I guess, Palm and Sprint could have notified their customers, although it does seem to be common sense. Then again, the credit card companies don't notify people that they are selling lists of what you purchase and where, too.
The moral of the story--if you want to be in a connected society, live with it.
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They know what towers you are connected to without GPS location data
Erm.. isn't this exactly what Microsoft have done with 'Genuine Advantage'. sure there's no tie-in between IP address and true geographic location but I'm sure if there were a good lookup system, then it would be used on the IP addresses that Genuine Advantage does collect.
So that law enforcement can subpoena Palm and ask for user location at x time on the day of x crime, to determine if they're in the area.
I bet this is a new 'service' they offer.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Your attempt to reason is thoughtcrime, comrade.
If you guys aren't happy with these, then big deal!! Move on. Most of the poepl here commenting don't even have this phone. Who cares if they have ur info. Plus it was in the T&c when you activated it
So why not hack the thing so it sends what you want it to send? Somewhere innocuous, somewhere whimsical, or just random locations. You could have fun with this.
"Yes, I really was at the North Pole yesterday. And in Paris the day before. Isn't air travel great!"
...laura
When you buy palm you agree that it backs itself up to the palm servers. users are notified and sign on to this.I don't see why they need GPS but the rest is resonable.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Mod up and bold that "backup and restore" bit. You opt-in to this when you activate your device and it can be turned off and tweaked anytime you like from within the UI.
WebOS is filled with options designed to protect your location privacy. You have to check like five boxes before Google Maps can even use GPS. You have to specifically approve the use of GPS in each individual app that requires it.
The guy in TFA is either an idiot or out to burn Palm.
"1) Watches, analyzes, and controls your every move to identify possible revolutionaries."
You never read the book did you?
In the book the point is made that people *do not know* when they are being monitored.
"There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized."
The same is happening now. It could be your phone, your internet use, a CCTV camera in the street... one of them might be monitored, and this instils the fear that keeps people subdued.
and I know that it sends stuff much more often than every few hours (maybe a couple times of an hour) because of the interference it creates when I'm listening to my mp3 player when the phone starts transmitting.
I see you have selective analysis skills. I can easily add "Watches, analyzes, and controls your every move" to the second list.
Of course, the whole first list *except* 1) 2) and 3) is already implemented by the good ol'US of A.
Johnny, ...
That is quite interesting. Oddly enough, I wish I knew how to access the gps coordinates of my palm pre info remotely in real time
I had my palm pre, credit card, ID, and keys stolen this weekend, and since have been attempting to track the thief in the hopes of either A) Getting my property back or B) Busting this punk
So last Sunday, I began the process of canceling credit cards, changing locks, and checking my Sprint Pre account.
(Some other things I did right away, was change my yahoo email password since my Pre is set to auto fetch my emails, and set my VM to require a password every time its checked by calling my own phone number and accessing settings through the automation thing.)
When I logged into sprint.com, I first checked my phone usage, and was able to identify a window when the theft took place based on the last call I made and the first call the thief made.
This was between 2:45 am and 5:45 am 8/9/09.
From that time the thief made several calls throughout the early morning and afternoon.
From the usage page on sprint.com, I navigated to the Online Tools page, where I found a few interesting links regarding Mobile Location Services, Family Location Services, and GPS Privacy.
I went ahead and called the sprint rep, who didn't know anything about these mobile phone locating services.
He eventually found the option to add the Family Location Service to my account. But before adding anything to my account, the rep had a great idea of first suspending my text messaging to my phone as to not tip off the thief via text notification that a tracking service has been added to the phone.
At this point, I was thinking I might actually locate my stolen phone back!!!
After suspending the texts, we went through with the Family Location link where I had to first accept some sort of mobile privacy thing online.
I was also able to indicate that I wanted to send emails to my inbox upon locating the phone, which I did. There are some other settings like how often the phone is auto-texted regarding the service, so I set that to the least often.
Once I was directed to the location page (http://sfl.sprintpcs.com/finder-sprint-family/signIn.htm) I was taken to a preview of the greater Denver area and a button to the right "LOCATE"
When the locate button is pressed, it uses triangulation to hone in on the phones location but it will only work when the phone is physically turned on.
It doesn't have to be making a call, but service must be active and phone on to triangulate its position.
After like 30 minutes of trying to locate this guy, to my surprise, the map panned over to a new area of Colorado and displayed an icon with a large blue area circle around the icon of the estimated zone where the phone could be. It actually said "within 700 yards" .... not quite pin point accuracy.
SCREENSHOT OF STOLEN PALM PRE LOCATED VIA TRIANGULATION NOT GPS
http://imgur.com/41413.jpg
It did also offer an address, but again, this is a complete estimation, and could presumably not be used as fact.
This guy has been using my phone for roughly three days now on and off, and I am constantly tracking him. I save the locations to "My Places" in the Family Locator website, and I am getting all this info together, along with all the phone numbers this guy has been calling and receiving to provide to the cops for the report or some Old Country Italian BOys!!
BUT, I'm trying to find anyway I can either somehow use palms GPS coordinates, or any advanced tracking mechanism to really have a case.
Any recommendations anyone.....
It has come to the author's attention that every time a user browses a web page, the following information is sent to the website's owner, without any formal warning or opt-out procedure made available to the end-user :-
1. Date / Time information
2. IP address (which can be used to establish the user's geographic position)
3. Browser Software information and details of installed extensions.
4. Data from cookies (which of course everyone knows contains viruses, spyware and other nasty shit).
5. The address of the webpage requested (which could be used to track user's browsing habits)
And worst of all, this data is collected possibly indefinately (or until the server's hard disk is full of access.log files anyway), and is known to be used to aggregate stats using AWSTATS and other "stat" software which displays coloured graphs and details on countries, browsers, time spent on the site, number of pages visited etc. With no regard whatsoever to the European and other Data Protection laws, and no method of having this personal data removed from these servers.
It's only a matter of time before unscrupulous website owners start using this data to decide website policies such as popular language support, versions of pages suitable for mobile and other devices, and perhaps even to sell us something we MIGHT NOT WANT !!!
THIS HAS TO STOP, THIS SPYING ON USERS IS CRIMINAL AND MUST STOP NOW !!!
Yours,
Chicken Little
That's strange. You had a really good argument, there was no need to twist the facts in your favor.
> 1) Retrieves information when your phone software crashes
People aren't up in arms about a product sending a crash report, they're up in arms because the device sends GPS coordinates of your location. Sure, this isn't 1984, but this also isn't innocuous debug data.
Okay, they can have my data, but guess what else they're getting? A whole lot of randomly generated crap data. What's this? I was in antarctica only moments ago and now I'm on the beach in Hawaii? I'm opening hundreds of apps a minute - all of which are crashing immediately?
They can have my data, they just won't be able to make it useful.
or else!
2009 Obama administration?
...if it wasn't for you pesky kids
The Palm people -- all their pieces and parts since they split the hardware from the OS and then killed the OS and began to make crappy hardware that they don't support -- have got to be robots. They're so stupid they obviously can't breathe on their own.
The present US government has many of the characteristics listed above.
1 - collecting lists of people who provide "bad" information. check.
2 - running banks, mortgage companies, auto companies. Setting salaries and bonuses. check.
3 - not happening
4 - see 1.
5 - uses government largess to subdue the masses - just promise them more stuff, don't worry about paying for it. check.
6 - rewrites history, opinion, etc. Obama said that he was for a single payer system. His folks say that he isn't. check. check. check. many examples.
7 - they just sick Pelosi on us.
8 - the cop acted "stupidly" in arresting someone who broke into a house and then would not identify himself properly to a police officer. Turning a police incident about a nasty man into a racial incident. check.
five out of eight ain't bad
As long as you have a computing system that can have more than one item in memory at one time, it starts to get very important how these things interact. Microsoft learned this a long time ago that applications could interact in destructive ways.
Maybe the folks a Palm figured that out as well. Do you not think it possible that your third-party application could impact Palm applications? And that it might be an important clue that thousands of dumps come in with each and every one of them having the same mysterious application instaled?
Would you rather the attitude be that if you install software this removes any support obligation from Palm?
Does this do when over seas / data roaming and you get a big data bill?
If so as this a Sprint phone with a 2 year lock in and forced data can they bill for data roaming that can not be turned off with out hacking the phone and it's not like you are useing the data the phone is doing it on it's own?
Surely the individual tasked to implement this feature knew what they were doing? It's a safe bet that they *also* read slashdot. Just because someone tells me to do something wrong doesn't mean I have to do it. If we (slashdotters) all seem to be so concerned about privacy, why are we so willing to implement an obviously dubious feature?
Even assuming that this was an "implement or be fired" situation, surely there are simple solutions to give all parties what they want. For example, reduce the geolocating accuracy - within 50 miles is going to provide 90% of what marketing would like, and not (particularly) compromise anonymity. Alternatively, an opt in screen at data send time. There are many alternatives.
We understand the value of privacy better than most. We need to make sure this understanding is not only part of our rhetoric, but also our daily practice.
That would be done with the tower data, not by querying individual phones. Although both are related to cellular service, they're miles apart in terms of privacy issues. Plus, the data would actually be relevant and accurate from the towers, unlike occasional positions from a phone.
Provide an API of functions an application can access, make sure an app stays in its own memory, via the API do not allow the application to have access to say the contacts with out a system message being displayed to the user first, etc.
As long as you have a computing system that can have more than one item in memory at one time, it starts to get very important how these things interact. Microsoft learned this a long time ago that applications could interact in destructive ways.
Microsoft did learn this, they gave each process its own memory space and required that each application say within its own allocated space.
Would you rather the attitude be that if you install software this removes any support obligation from Palm?
Dell, HP, and Microsoft do not void the warranty if you install software on your computer. They tell you that you have to first restore your system to its factory settings. Why not do the same thing with a palm pre?
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
I happened to have been overseas recently (but no roaming; I used wifi the whole time). My Pre failed
to get GPS coordinates during the whole trip, so I imagine it didn't report that, but it did manage to upload several crash reports over wifi while I was abroad. My Pre has 1.2 mb of those that are still pending upload, after 1 month of use.
Ya wanna go to a club where people wee on each other?
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
Roaming (data or voice) can be turned off on the Pre without hacking. It's on the Preferences screen for the dialer app.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
OK, maybe Palm is not like 1984... but looking over your list is a little scary seeing as we seem to have 6 or 7 of the 8 conditions going on currently.
This space available.
Except these updates are daily, not every second. So Palm knows where you are once per day. And it's not clear that they have any identification information that they can use to link a certain report to a certain user. Unless your carrier informs Palm of which user bought which Palm Pre, in which case, we have a whole other privacy issue on our hands.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
We had 1,6,7,8 with George Bush. Not 2 as he deregulated everything.
I guess because of the Utah Mormons, California has 3. Texas still outlaws sodomy, so they have 3 as well.
The pro-weed movement want 5, a nation of stoned junkies in a perpetual state of altered reality. Luckily they are a vocal minority and not a majority.
China seems to have 4, I don't think we do yet.
Scary. :(
"An ultra-facist, ultra controlling government that..."
You're wrong as it was an ultra socialist government based 100% on the Soviet Communist party and as Orwell believed (and had personal experience with in Spain) would be the logical outcome of the English left wing "intelligentsias" (who he had absolutely no love for) writings and beliefs of the day.
Orwell himself became a Democratic Socialist due to the extreme levels of poverty and wealth disparity he had seen when he went on the road disguised as a vagabond to research his book "A Road to Wigan Pier". BUT he was under no illusion of what the extreme form of socialism (as advocated by many many people on the left at the time) would become should it be implemented, which is why he wrote two books on the subject and hundreds of letters, reviews and essays against not only the Fascists but also Communists and the useful idiots in the academic left wing who fawned over the Russian style of Socialism rather than wanting to maintain a democracy that had Socialist tendencies as Orwell advocated for.
The more you know.
P.S I've noticed that as a country politically moves to the right the "baddies" in old fiction suddenly become left wing and when a country moves to the left the "baddies" in the same books suddenly become right wing, I'm not sure if that's a problem or not (outside of the cognitive dissonance it displays).
I would realy like to shield my phone's GPS capability if I don't have FAIR use of technology that I payed-for. If I can't use it, then I want it disabled. What frequencies need to be jammed? Particularly the reason I want it disabled is because I don't want it reporting errors or waypoint and route information that might prejudice my right to the road with a legislated rate of movement. The same goes for the software. I would intend to plug a USB wifi adapter into my phone, use my network stack and application on my phone, to route telecommunications to the non-Cell-network of my choice. A modern phone is a glorified pda and CB Radio that's been biased by some FCC losers; I wouldn't mind being able to use my phone as a chat host and moderator with my antenna for the area as we once did back in analog phone networks that could inter-operate with HAM radio hosts.
It's getting lame quick! Where are the kits that can hook onto an antenna to spoof and overide proprietary crap in my hands so that it can be for my intended use? Sure, some would say that Phone Service predominates to allow a good cell phone to be affordable by supplementing the cost over a 2year contract, but what about phones that are deemed obsolete or lost phones that were deactivated and then later recovered and not in any certain service contract? Mine, Mine, mine!
I can do the work of an apprentice technician from time to time.
My property wasn't available at the time your office was qualified for it's particular utilities to coordinate and execute its cause, so any further speculation on subject to my right will be seen as a threat of coerced domestication to a foreign principle; upon such finding will default my presence into a military remedy in pervue of the Coastal guards of these American state-Republics, for which you will be hung under water and deemed dead at low tide.
No; we can choose to have cell phones that can be used to track our positions if they are turned on and registering to a network.
He's clocking out now to return it to the store he bought it from and promised to be headed to Bestbuy to pick up an iPhone 3GS on the way back...
Honestly I think this would be a dumb move, being that Apple is more "evil" than Palm, and AT&T is more "evil" than Sprint.
Consider this:
* If Microsoft pulled even HALF the shenanigans Apple does ("fixing" iTunes when thrd parties figure out ho to sync to it, suing the competition, suing people who leak info on unreleased products, etc etc) they'd be hauled into court and sued into oblivion. But, Apple can still get away with it because they are not a monopoly and their products are hip/pretty/actually work well. Doesn't make it any less evil than if MSFT had done it.
* iPhone is more closed than Pre. Yes yes, I know BSD kernel and all but there are gobs of proprietary stuff all over it. Much more opportunity to "do evil" and get away with it since it is tougher to hack. Per is comparitively open--they were MUCH quicker to release APIs, their software stack consists of far more Free software and it is architecturally VERY similar to several Free-software-friendly mobile devices (Beagleboard, Zoom, Always Innovating Touchbook, Pandora handheld). Making its Pres phone home is evil, but at least they are more open and honest than Apple has been known to be.
* All phone companies are evil, but AT&T has the dubious distinction of being a full and wililng participant in warrantless wiretapping of its own customers. It comes from a monoloply heritage. Sprint is far less notorious in that capacity...it is merely known to be incompetent and bumbling at times.
Given the choice I'd elect Pre over iPhone in a heartbeat--both the carriers and the handset manufacturers for the former are more trustworthy--or at the very least easier to keep an eye on. Apple makes the best designed and highest quality but I'm rather disenchanted with their long-time tactics of being ultra-closed. I thought that there was a chance they were changing their game when they went with Intel architecture on their Macs but since then they've proven their spots unchangeable. Pity that--they weren't that evil in their Apple II days--they sued clone makers for their blatant copyright violations but at least their machines were quite open. Perhaps if the other Steve steered the ship (but then Apple products would look far less sexy I suppose).
At least with the Pre (besides being more powerful than the iPhone) if Palm is caught pulling shenanigans it is relatively easy to find and fix it. With Apple...not so sure...if they WERE found out doing something like this, not only would it be harder to turn off, Apple would sue your arse into oblivion if you told anyone about it.
uuh, didn't see the "1984" - I first thought you're writing about a real-world government. Well, actually, you are. Sad, but true. Maybe except points number 3 and 4.
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this is off-topic, but must be mentioned... that chick in the pre TV commercials is very odd looking. it's actually kinda spooky how odd looking she is... sorta alien. it freaks me out and makes me feel like i just witnessed something wrong in a petri dish.
I dont have time - but does anyone else think it would be humourous and fitting to inject false information into their data gathering operation?
Not to belittle your point, but as a citizen of this 1984 community, I seriously doubt you would even notice that you are being manipulated. Many of the points in your 1984 list could be argued as fulfilled, we're just so used to it that it doesn't seem that way.
Take #2 - How long do you think you would be able to buy anything if our government shut off Visa? Or if the electronic networking that connected banks were to be brought down? How much money do you have in your wallet right now?
Try #3 in a public place.
#4 happens all the time in cases of abuse.
#5 - Well duh.
#6 is hard to prove. To many missing emails.
#7 - Guantanamo. Ever heard of it?
#8 has been demonstrated all week. Just check CNN and look for "Health care reform, town hall meetings"
verses a private company that was caught with it's pants down. I'm sure the government will step in, but not because it cares about the law... There are bound to be government employees that will use Palm Pre's, and they certainly don't want THEIR locations and app usage getting out.
Where you go, what applications you are using, what web sites you visit, what businesses you call are a marketing gold mine. A provider can analyse this information to serve you content that is appropriate to your interests and locations. Have you ever ordered pizza on your smart phone? You might be sent pizza coupons for the nearest pizza joint. Do you visit football web sites? You might get ads for the local football team when you're traveling on business. This is extremely creepy, but companies ARE working on developing this kind of technology.
Storm in a teacup, look at the horizontal accuracy thats being sent, its ["horizAccuracy": 2523], that is 2500 mts or a 68% probability that the user is in a circle of diameter of 5000 meters.
Its not a GPS location, most probably a cell ID location - that is to say, which base station is serving the user.
This information is already known to the cell company anyway and is at a fairly rough level of accuracy.
You conveniently didn't "see" that the government that does 1-8 can subpoena the server data of said "private company."
And, the phone is sending information that extends far beyond just "software crashes."
If the data exists, the evildoers (whether government or private companies) can use it. Therefore, it is best to prevent tempting evil by avoiding collection in the first place.
FWIW you can turn on GPS so when you lose your phone NTT DoCoMo can help you find it. Also for the very difficult to use but visually impressive map application. All said and done Palm is evil and I won't buy from them anymore but if you could just trust them this would otherwise be useful. In the end it makes the device LESS useful since you can't trust them. I think expecting location privacy from a cellphone is a mistaken endeavor. How can you prove it unless you run your own firewall on the phone?