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Dell Says High Linux Netbook Returns a "Non-Issue"
Michiel Roos notes that at this week's OpenSource World, a Dell executive deflated Microsoft's claims that Linux notebooks have return rates four or five times higher than Windows machines. "Todd Finch, Dell senior product marketing manager, said the number of Linux returns are approximately the same as those for Windows netbooks. He categorized the matter of returns as a 'non-issue.' 'They are making something of nothing,' he said of Microsoft's claims."
That fact that a multi-billion dollar corporation is making up lies about free software on a daily basis is just another sign of true weakness.
People buying these machines know they ship with Ubuntu. It says so right on the website, and the button you click, and repeats it when you checkout. People aren't returning these machines more because they have Ubuntu, they're buying them more because they have Ubuntu.
Now, if only this would rub off on the rest of the business sectors. I'd love to buy a new Studio 15 laptop with the option for Ubuntu. It'd save me 45 minutes formatting, reinstalling Ubuntu and reconfiguring the system the way I like. But unfortunately their selection for machines with Ubuntu only includes the crap Inspiron line (the Ford Fiesta of laptops).
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
I suspect that, while the enthusiasm on ideastorm is real, it isn't wildly representative.
Think about the people who are actually passionate about computer related stuff: You've got the Linux and/or FOSS guys, the hardcore gamers, the Mac-heads, some true Microsofties, and that's about it. Almost everybody else uses them, and wants them to work; but isn't going to spend their leisure time posting on some Dell messageboard about it.
Of those groups, the hardcore gamers and the Mac-heads wouldn't give Dell the time of day if they were on fire(in aggregate, obviously there are gamers with Dells; and the Mini-9 hackintosh crew; but the more passionately you are a member of those groups, the less likely you are to be running a Dell), while the Microsofties can already get all the MS software they want from Dell, so they have no reason to complain. Linux/FOSS enthusiasts are pretty much the only ones I'd expect to show up.
So in other words, now we should pay attention to sales rates of Windows vs. Linux, not just return rates?
Oh noes, how could they!
This will put a serious dent in their excellent credibility track record..
I think you are missing the point. Dell says they are not receiving returns except at the same rate. He means that linux netbooks are being returned at the same rate as windows netbook returns. Now, Dell is the company that sells and accepts the returns. Microsoft has nothing to do with it. Microsoft has no first hand knowledge. Since they can't count Linux returns, as it has nothing to do with Windows returns, Microsoft would be clueless except maybe by receiving information from Microsoft funded reports.
Bottom line is that Dell is giving facts whereas Microsoft is giving conjecture.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
And here we see Microsoft making messy and untenable assertions to the detriment of its ostensibly valuable business partners. My charitable side is prone to thinking that these moves are just oblivious on Microsoft's part, but the side that's been reading Slashdot for a decade suggests that they still think they're too big to be affected by their own irked customers... and it's happy to see that notion countered more and more these days. Next slide.
The rates of sales are not relevant in that Microsoft is a monopoly, one convicted of criminal predatory practices, which forced hardware manufacturers into illegal contracts to exclude. That gave them the monopoly, and in case you don't know what a monopoly is and how hard it is to compete with a monopoly you might want to check up on that.
The only relevant statistic that I can see is one that tracks the rate of behavioral change as it relates to buying an alternative. Not in the number of sales but in the increase of sales of the alternative non-monopolistic products.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
That must be exactly why Microsoft has the astoundingly successful "You find it, you keep it" ad campaign going, with Dell and HP laptops prominently featured.
People who use Linux use it because they CHOOSE to. On the contrary most people who use Windows do so because they're forced to.
That's a win for Microsoft, no matter how you spin it.
Well, maybe. The open source ecosystem has long since become large enough to be self-sustaining, so it's questionable how much it matters that Microsoft still has a majority of the market share. If MS went bankrupt tomorrow, it would be a minor win for Linux but mostly a huge win for Apple, and Apple's behavior as a company suggests strongly that they would be no less unpleasant as a near-monopoly than Microsoft currently is.
The important thing to me is that I have multiple free (in both senses) alternatives to MS and that those are not likely to go away in the foreseeable future. Would I like to buy a laptop without the Microsoft tax. Sure, but then, I pretty much already can, since I usually buy year-old off-lease corporate laptops at a steep discount -- being neither a hardcore gamer nor a videographer, most machines have been more than fast enough for everything else for several years now.
If the whole Free/Open Source Software movement was a battle for our freedom, we already won, and won decisively. The battle against Microsoft's very existence? Who cares? Odds are, Microsoft will be around for a long time to come, and waiting for it to die is like waiting for Apple or one of the *BSDs or any other stable niche offering to die: time better spent having actual fun and getting real work done.
Besides, it's not like Dell's products or their customer support are very good to begin with. When I can buy generic, standard laptop parts to build my own laptop as well as I can build my own desktop boxes, then I'll get excited. Until then, the token gestures of companies selling proprietary, closed hardware are really nothing to become overly concerned about.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
100,000 registered folks seems compelling to me, and most anyone listening, Dell. I tried to click the up arrow, but user-registration is required first.
Still, I think M$ forces Dell's & Asus' (etc.) hand by hidden fees & bulk-discounts related to the M$ tax.
Being grabbed and screaming to the cold reality that many people out there hate to be constrained to Windows.
People keep trying to explain what has become now pretty obvious: Linux is mainstream.
It is high time companies and people interested in computing wake up to this simple reality.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
A few billion of MS's profits. Well they went somewhere, just not to M$. And whether MS fanboys want to admit it or not what MS did is criminal.
Why bother
Which exact part of
we don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the rate for Linux
is it that you have difficulty reading. What he's saying is that Windows machines return at the approximately same rate for technical problems as Linux machines return due to both technical problems and misunderstandings. This implies that if they can improve their communication then the return rate of Linux machines will be significantly lower than the return rate for Windows machines. To be honest I have difficulty working out why. Surely the hardware should be pretty much the same? Is it possible that the rate of malware infection at the beginning of a modern, up to date, Windows system's life is really high enough to account for the extra Windows returns?
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
> Firefox, OpenOffice.org and multimedia on Linux continue to suck big time.
No they don't. You're just trying to add to the mindless anti-Linux hysteria.
All of these are quite suitable for the average user and in many cases FAR
SUPERIOR to the default Lemming option. Linux multimedia software in
particular is used to bail out both Windows and MacOS from usability and
functionality issues.
Time to find a new FUD talking point. "Linux multi-media" is over in this respect.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Real trolls and flame bait artists take note: If you state your comment in a funny enough manor then all sins are forgiven. We, the mods, don't mod you down because we disagree or are offended, but because, well frankly you are boring and we're just trying to help people avoid the same old non creative crap. So go to comedy school and take some creative writing classes.
and Apple seems to not want to compete in the desktop space. macbook pro's and imacs are made of the same internal parts and Apple seems content selling the same PC at ridiculous mark ups to it's niche market. the way everything is integrated on the motherboard today and the fact that it's very easy to build a consumer level hackintosh it shouldn't be a big deal for Apple to sell a desktop system that's cheaper than the imac's laptop internals.
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
This is not specific to Dell, but Netbooks in general. The goal of the Netbook builders seem to be making them as cheap as possible and that is one of the many reasons why they choose free Linux over costly Windows. However, simply because they are making them as cheap as possible, they're also just shoddy computers and they get returned because of that. I have and likely always will be of the opinion that 99% of computer users don't care what OS they use as long as they can surf the web, check their e-mail, do their taxes, etc.
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
Hardly worth the effort to reply but "What?" I don't think any of those words mean what you think they do.
In what way were the corporate convictions against MS "so-called"? They were, I assure you, quite real. Remember that a corporation can be convicted of a crime and no one go to jail. However fines are a very real sanction against a criminal corporation.
A political stunt no, not even close. MS was convicted of illegal restraint of trade and mis-use of a monopoly. Don't believe me look it up. I may not have the exact statutes that they violated but violate them they did. There is nothing "so-called" about them.
Why bother
Coreboot is hard, but Dell has the bad habit of installing thousands of software on every machine it sells. Adding Firefox and OpenOffice to the list seems pretty straightforward. OpenOffice and Firefox marketshare are far bigger than the computer enthusiast. Many people know that open office is the "Microsoft Office that is free". The fact that Dell leaves so many clients unsatisfied for a feature that is easy to add is a strong indication that the issues are contractual and commercial, not technical.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Uh... I run an Exchange server, and every WinMo phone in the office is happily accessing it. Calendar, contacts, and everything.
If you are a major computer distributor, you have more than enough clout to demand the company who supplies your sound chips give you Linux drivers. Saying Dell can't do that is bullshit.