Slashdot Mirror
New Logitech Dark Field Mice Operate On Glass
Slatterz writes "Logitech has introduced new mice that use two lasers rather than one to work on a variety of previously unusable surfaces. The first laser picks out imperfections in the surface of a tabletop while the second laser focuses on microscopic imperfections highlighted and uses those to direct the cursor. The technique, dubbed dark field microscopy, allows mice to be used on almost any surface, including glass (as long as it is more than 4mm thick)."
It can also detect the spirochetes that cause syphillis, Treponema palladium.
This tech sounds awesome in an evil way. Or evil in an awesome way, I guess.
This is pretty much the selling point for Microsoft's BlueTrack (video at Amazon) as well. Theirs appears to be based on a blue LED and some optics picking up / processing the scattering, rather than dual lasers, but since they're more or less aimed at the same problem and claim similar success, I'd be curious how they compare.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Didn't Logitech make a mouse that worked on "any surface" about five fucking years ago?
*puzzle*
Kid-proof tablet..
>The first laser picks out imperfections in the surface of a tabletop while the second laser focuses on microscopic imperfections highlighted and uses those to direct the cursor.
Anybody doing retail sales has surely encountered couples like this. I'll bet the second laser demands a discount for the imperfections that the first laser found.
What consumer glass tables are more than 4mm thick? Yeah designer stuff and commerical furniture that has glass surfaces use 5-10mm glass, but this will still be useless on consumer grade furniture. Chances are, if you're a consumer using a consumer grade mouse, you'll be using it on consumer grade glass furniture.
moox. for a new generation.
Fuck Everything, We're Doing Five Lasers...
per dolorem ad astra
So how does the field mouse tell the Logitech Mouse where the imperfections in the surface are? Presumably Logitech has decoded the language of the tiny mammals.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
I'm so glad we figured this out.
It was unacceptable that we weren't able to use mice on glass.
My productivity will increase dramatically.
I, for one, welcome our new dark field mice overlords!
-- Chaos, panic, pandemonium... My job here is done!
Use a trackball: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Trackball
Specifically, I use this Logitech trackball: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech-trackball.jpg
After using that, using a mouse feels like my response time and accuracy is that of the old-style slow and stupid zombies.
I _knew_ I shouldn't have gotten that desk made out of 3mm glass.
Analysts keep suggesting that the mouse is nearing obsolescence, and that in less than five years, it'll look about as natural in your hand as a buggy whip. However, I remain unconvinced.
That said, if and when Toyota or anybody else figures out how to port their brain-controlled wheelchair tech to the PC, the mouse may indeed become one of those things your future grandkids will see in photos and ask, "Did you really ever use one of those things?! It's so weird looking!!!"
Until then, a laser mouse that can be used on transparent glass surfaces still has a certain wow factor.
The first laser picks out imperfections in the surface of a tabletop while the second laser...
Sound familiar? This sounds to me like it could be the start of a Gillette vs Schick style pissing contest, the absurd current state of which was foretold by The Onion.
Let me go on record as predicting Microsoft will bring out a 3-laser mouse within 12 months. With an ergonomic grip and lubricating strips on each end.
For all the things they've been able to get mice to track on, it still sucks to move a mouse on anything other than an engineered mousing surface. This new sensor may be a good feature for notebook mice that will be used on who-knows-what, but buying a premium gaming mouse for it's ability to track on crappy surfaces makes about as much sense as buying a Formula One car for its off-road handling.
And if anyone says "but it's better!": Today's well-made mice track fantastically well on a proper surface. They're already, for practical purposes, perfect. Yes, admittedly, there are people whose Logitech or Microsoft mice track poorly. But those people fall into two groups: (a) those who aren't using a pad at all, and (b) those who are using a horrible made-when-men-were-men-and-mice-had-balls pad they had lying around. Logitech and Microsoft would be better off just throwing in a proper mouse pad—and there are some excellent, relatively cheap cloth pads—than endlessly making slightly better sensors just so that people's cursors jump a bit less while they're scraping their mice back and forth on horrible surfaces.
(And if Microsoft and Logitech had half as much innovation in materials as they do in optics, their mice would move like air hockey pucks by now.)
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
My mouse will work with Windows?
Finally!
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
First off I wouldn't give the Onion too much credit for "foretelling the blade count war", because, every teenager and pre-teen has been making 22 blade razor jokes probably since they first made twin blade razors. It's not a big deal
Secondly, five bladed razors are better. The five blade Gilette Fusion is a wonderful razor. Having to use an old twin blade compared to the fusion is just terrible. In fact, my wife routinely steals mine (and a fresh blade), in order to do her legs. Lady's twin blade razors in cute little pink and white packages do not work as well as a good old five blade ultra sharp kick butt razor.
Bottom line is, if Gillette's research arm comes up with diamond tipped blades, or some sort of a ten bladed razor, then they've got my interest. Paying extra for a razor may seem like a waste to some, but after twenty or thirty years of shaving with crappy razors, those few extra bucks are money well spent. A good razor is worth it, and honestly, I could see a good mouse being worth it too.
This is my sig.
Not surprisingly, the mouse costs a lot more than I'd be willing to pay. My 3-button, scroll-wheel USB Intellimouse Explorer 3 is close to celebrating it's 10th birthday, and is still going strong, and still feels to me like the best mouse I've ever used. Microsoft sure knew how to put their name on quality hardware back then.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I would hate to be the one using a mouse on a glass surface less than 4mm thick. It would probably break very easy. Some specs are kind of useless. Like linux supporting thousands of processors hehe.
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
I hope it does not reduce the number of plain old LED optical mice out there because those are a GREAT source for machine vision for robotics. the basic 32X32 pixel cameras in a mouse works GREAT for a small robot for machine vision.
I even have an arduino bot using one to avoid objects.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I've been using optical trackballs ever since they came on the market. All of my computers are currently outfitted with the Microsoft optical trackball (I know it's hard to believe given the brand, but it is really quite well-designed and built). A trackball is especially useful with my laptop. The total amount of space taken up by the device is fixed (the device's size). No extra room is needed since it doesn't need to be moved like a mouse. They work on any surface they can be placed on, rough or smooth. No mouse pad required. They can be used in any orientation (upside down, on a 90-degree angle to the surface on which the computer is sitting -- you name it). No lasers, just LEDs (two). My trackballs range in age from six years to ten years. They work as well now as when they were brand new.
Fortunately, Microsoft isn't the only company selling an outboard optical trackball these days. Logitech makes a very nice optical trackball (Trackman Wheel Optical) with the same ergonomic properties as the Microsoft product. The Logitech product has the added benefits of being slightly smaller and way less expensive than the Micrsoft unit. Amazon is currently selling them for $24 ($45 for the cordless version at TigerDirect). It gets excellent customer ratings everywhere it's sold.
Unfortunately, the price of the Microsoft optical trackball has gone through the roof since I bought my last one. Amazon's price for new units is $199.99!! I paid $39.99 each for mine many years ago, brand new, at CompUSA (not on sale)! And, back then, there wasn't any quality competition. If that were still the case, I'd reluctantly spend $200 if one of mine broke down. They really are worth it. But, since there is now a quality alternative, and since I need a new trackball for my new desktop, I just ordered a Logitech Trackman Wheel Optical from Amazon.
I could never go back to using a mouse. Never.
One "Aw, Shit!" is worth 100 "Ata boys!"
While it is easy to say "Oh just get a surface the mouse works on," well that kinda ignores the point of an optical mouse. One of the major reasons to want them is that you don't need a dedicated mouse pad. You just drop them on a table and they work. However, you discover that isn't the case on some surfaces, and it isn't always predictable. Some surfaces that look smooth to you may have plenty of imperfections for it to track. Other that are "less perfect" can in fact be unusable because their patterns are highly regular.
Also what people need to remember is that just because a mouse works on a surface, doesn't mean it is working as well as it could. You can find surfaces where the mouse is usable, but when you compare it with a more irregular surface, you find that it wasn't tracking well. The more precise the tracking, the less likely that will be a problem.
So having a mouse that relies on smaller and smaller imperfections is nice because that means it'll track on more surfaces. Is it a must have? No, but it is convenient. Some people want high quality, and are willing to pay for it. This is a product for them.
If you find they work for you, great, but there's a reason that most people use mice, and why laptops no longer have trackballs on them... it seems that most people just aren't comfortable using them. I've tried, I've had several trackballs, and while they work great for very small precise movements or for massive spin-the-ball videogame action they're just too hard for me to drive the mouse 500 pixels over and click on a word in a document.
On the other hand carrying a thin mousepad between the screen and keyboard of a closed laptop so it's always there and convenient to use is a hell of a lot cheaper than a dark field mouse.
When you use the same mouse for 7+ years I think its a worthwhile investment. It's one of few pieces of hardware that can travel through endless computer upgrades. It's also the most precision based input device. I believe that it is very worthwhile to buy the best mouse you can then use the hell out of it. You are going to be touching it every day and if it has any imperfections you are going to be pissed every day.
I have the G5 and have been using it for around 6 years. For less than $10 a year I got an awesome mouse.
I of course am assuming this is a great mouse. This is more a general statement than related to this specific mouse because I have never used it and don't know if it is amazing.