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One Crime Solved Per 1,000 London CCTV Cameras
SpuriousLogic writes "Only one crime was solved for each 1,000 CCTV cameras in London last year, a report into the city's surveillance network has claimed. The internal police report found the million-plus cameras in London rarely help catch criminals. In one month CCTV helped capture just eight out of 269 suspected robbers. David Davis MP, the former shadow home secretary, said: 'It should provoke a long overdue rethink on where the crime prevention budget is being spent.' He added: 'CCTV leads to massive expense and minimum effectiveness. It creates a huge intrusion on privacy, yet provides little or no improvement in security. The Metropolitan Police has been extraordinarily slow to act to deal with the ineffectiveness of CCTV.'"
Sure, but how many crimes did it prevent? I always considered cameras more of a prevention, i.e. only idiots commit crimes in front of cameras.
Obviously, another question is how many crimes simply moved to areas without cameras.
i would really hate to have my privacy intruded upon while walking around in public ;p
of course it is a waste of funds, all the money spent on those camera would probably pay for an extra dozen police cars or hire several more police officers to patrol the higher crime infested areas...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
The current ones suffer from being blurry, so ID can not be made. If they upgraded to HD quality, then they could see the criminals' faces.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
CCTV cameras are a one-time installation cost (with a minor amount of maintenance). Regular police forces are a continuous cost.
A million cameras capture 1 per 1000 = 1,000 criminals caught per year. The following years should catch an equivalent number - for little additional cost. This is one of the basic problems with news reporting - if the BBC had splashed a big story headlined "CCTV Cameras Catch 1,000 Per Year", there would be an entirely different public reaction.
"Sure, but how many crimes did it prevent?"
If I was somebody who was aware of the failure of the cameras in terms of identification I would simply stop caring they exist.
In EVERY situation there are cameras it is a excercise in futility.
For Example:
In highschool we would do various illegal activities in the back. They put up cameras. We got scared. After about a month we stopped caring and it was business as usual, but we got more sneaky and better at our activities. We even would stage large fights right in front of the cameras with absolutely no mediation.
Moral of the story is that nothing beats an on duty cop/teacher in person patrolling. All these cameras have done for London is made them the base for 1984 jokes for the past few years.
For the price and upkeep of 1,000 CCTV cameras I would expect that one could deploy at least one additional meat-based law inforcement unit complete with two eyes. This creature, that we'll call a 'police officer', might be expected to solve more than one crime per year.
Absolutely I would hate to see the limited government dollars allocated for police protection squandered on inefficient ways such as CCTV.
But nobody is intimidated by them. They're not like speed cameras where you can be certain that anything you do wrong will be noticed. We all know damn well that on the other side of the lens there isn't an army of jack-booted thugs waiting to haul us away, all there is watching us is a bored person sitting in an office surrounded by screens, and that person doesn't care.
One huge difference: cameras can't actually apprehend anybody. There are cases upon cases of crimes being commited directly under watch of a camera that are never solved. Whether it's because the perp is wearing a hat or they never return to the city or whatever, were there an actual officer there it could have been stopped then and there: the crime would be prevented AND the perp could be taking directly to gaol, no passing GO. A woman being assaulted and saying "oh, we got it on camera so we /might/ be able to catch the guy" isn't going to feel any better until he's actually caught. Telling her they can't catch him because he was wearing a hat or the camera was turned 5 degrees too far to the left is just pouring salt into the wound.
"I was raised by a cup of coffee" -Homsar
i would really hate to have my privacy intruded upon while walking around in public ;p
Solid point. However, there is a difference between:
- Your actions going unrecorded in public
- Your actions being recorded as a matter of chance (someone random taking your picture or accidentally including you in one)
- Your actions always being recorded.
Lets have your grandma walk down the street, get mugged, break her hip and be traumatized. How many CCTVs would you be willing to put up to reduce the chances of that ever happening again? This privacy thing is getting incompetent, when you're in the public.. you're in the public. Unless someone has CCTVs pointing into your house. Appreciate the fact that if someone knifed you in the street, you have a better chance of catching that person
I disagree with this for two reasons.
Firstly, this is the "Windows Vista" style of "upgrade". CCTV is no substitute for a real policeman. The presence of an actual person is reassuring to the law abiding and off-putting to the crims.
Secondly, in the 1800s, "Bill the Copper" was not an arm of the Government. Have a look at Robert Peel's original principles: "the police are the public, and the public are the police". Of course it is not like that any more. The Government has been interfering with the police, mostly making their job harder, which is why we now pay for almost-useless window-dressing substitutes such as CCTV and Community Support Officers, while the real officers sit in their stations filling out forms, occasionally reacting to crime after it has happened.
You can read all about this on various UK police blogs, which make a fascinating read. Start with http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/ ; a lot of other interesting sites are listed in his blogroll.
The tao of democracy: the government you can vote for is not the real government.
No.
"Bill the Copper" didn't used to follow everyone around writing down their every action while in public and storing it to be retrieved at will by the current or future government.
On the other hand "Ivan the KGB Agent" and "Wilhelm the Stasi Agent" did.
See the difference?
The rate of alcohol consumption per capita in the UK is double that of the 50s. (sorry, was reading that the other day but I didn't bookmark it, some UK paper)Crime goes up the more drunks you have. Just human reality. Drunks don't care about *anything*, they lose the ability to think straight, cameras or no cameras. They'll act out aggressively without a second thought, or do other stupid stuff like pull street crime. Drunks or druggies, an easy wallet or purse grab plus a bit of sport making people hurt, they dig it.
That's not all the reasons for increased crime, but it is a big part of it.
Anyway, those cameras....this is my real point. Bull SHIT it was to reduce normal street crime, it is conditioning to get people there to accept full big brother action, and they have for the most part. One step at a time. First in public, now they are going to be putting them in "problem family homes". After that is accepted, they will expand the list so more fall under the "problem" category (like the US has that totally illegal and should have caused regime change by now big brother "no fly" list that all the cowering "flying public" herd animal peons accept, so it is no better there).
Once they have enough cameras installed under the "problem family" category, they'll go all the way to every place, every home, every business, every building and all over outside. And if you refuse, well there you go, you are now a "problem", you are a "resister" so they have a precedent to do it that YOU accepted before without revolt as long as it wasn't "all that bad".
If you wait until it "gets that bad", well gee, it IS that bad then and you blew your chance to stop it and now are stuck in some hideous north korean styled society, just with better tech, and you WON'T be able to revolt or stop things then. They already disarmed the population there, fed them that crap about "reducing crime". What a crock. Have to retreat inside your own home..and they get people to accept that insanity...I mean..damn
You change things before they "get that bad", or accept your shackles and keep your eyes lowered and mind your masters. There is NO middle ground there, and you won't be negotiating with your owners either, nor their armed bully boys.
ALL societies eventually reach that stage, no exceptions. Tech keeps getting better as history marches on, but despotism is ALWAYS the end game with societies that let government have more power than the people, and it turns into an "us versus them" deal and the ones with the most weapons and power and authority win, or there is a revolution and everyone loses because they waited too long to keep things sane.
So keep drinking heavy, blitzed into perpetual stupidity. They *want* you that way, "solving street crime" is NOT their main priority.
That's one of the ways they keep their herds under control. Petty crime, or even a rise in serious crime, is a trivial expense for them to have their populations dumbed down and compliant and accepting all sorts of crap like surveillance cameras, no fly lists, data bases, more and more regulations and "permits" needed for this or that. Drunkeness, drugged, illegal and "doctors prescription" drugs, bread and circuses plus disarm the serfs and peons and heavily arm the state's bully boys=controlled populations. That's the formula they always use.
1% masters controlling 99% of the people, and it is apparently easy to do, it keeps happening over and over again.
According to the British government, there has been a 48% decrease in recorded crime since the peak in 1995, which seems to argue that the proliferation of cameras and draconian gun control have been effective in protecting the safety of Britons.
Unfortunately, recorded violent crimes have approximately doubled since the current record-keeping system was implemented in 1998, and there are compelling reasons to believe that most other categories of crime are now being massively underreported, suggesting that crime problems in Britain are getting much worse despite a near-total ban on guns and the installation of millions of surveillance cameras.
I'd say something isn't working...
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
Nice reference. Standard boilerplate crime reporting. Now show us the follow up article where the police actually find something useful on the CCTV footage and catch the bad guys..
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
Ahhh... but local councils have turned it into a prodigious cash cow by catching motorists making minor traffic infractions and fining them... as my father found out last week.
But think of the Children/Terrorists/Drugs....
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Grow some fucking balls and stand up to your gov all-fucking-ready.
The spin here is that "have been solved with the help of" does not really mean that much. It was part of the evidence collected. "have a CCTV investigation strategy" means even less, what they are saying is that they have a box on their flowchart saying "consider cctv".
I wonder how many police officers they could fund instead; or how much training, public outreach, and useful equipment that could buy?
I've always believed that "to solve crimes" was only a lame excuse to allow Big Brother to monitor the citizens.
Like many of the issues discussed here it really is about 'control'. Who has it and who wants to dictate it.
I've come to the conclusion that I fear an out of control Government more that I fear terrorists/serial killers/Death Flu/etc
London Underground is full of cameras. How many captured anything on the day Jean Charles de Menezes was shot and killed?
Initially it was claimed that non of the cameras at the station were working. Indeed the police repeatedly changed their story and their claims were disputed by just about every witness. Those involved appear to have literally "got away with murder".At the recent G20 protests in London where the police "kettling" tactic was widely criticised and hundreds of complaints about police behaviour resulted, how much evidence from CCTV has been produced to show the police acting reasonably? Compared with how much amateur footage shot with mobile phones and the like?
Also a bystander was assaulted by a police officer and died. This would appear to fit the definition of "manslaughter". If the assault had been by a member of the public they would no doubt have had their identity splashed across the media, been arrested and charged. Some time later two police dogs died in a car, already been annonced that the police officer responsible would be prosecuted. It now appears to be the case, at least in the UK, that if you are going to get killed by a police officer it's better to be a dog than a human!