Slashdot Mirror
Crime Expert Backs Call For "License To Compute"
The Cable Guy writes to mention that Russel Smith, one of Australia's principal criminologists, is pushing for first-time computer users to be required to earn a license to browse the web. "The Australian Computer Society launched computer driver's licenses in 1999. It aimed to give users a basic level of competency before they started using PCs. But the growth in cybercrime has led to IT security experts such as Eugene Kaspersky to call for more formalized recognition of a user's identity so they can travel the net safely. Last week Dr. Smith sat in front of a Federal Government Inquiry into cybercrime and advised Australia's senior politicians on initiatives in train to fight cybercrime. He said that education was secondary to better technology solutions."
more formalized recognition of a user's identity so they can travel the net safely
How does letting THEM, know who I am, make ME safer?
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Computers license YOU !
Yours In Ulyanovsk,
Kilgore Trout
Classic example of trading freedom for "security", I can only hope this is not put through. This could also severely restrict younger peoples (legal) access to the internet, narrowing their horizons drastically.
Good sigs are hard to think of, bad sigs are a waste of time, that is why I invented, this lousy rhyme.
Techies have been joking about this for many decades.
Realistically though, we all know it's about as likely as needing a license to read or talk.
I find it hard to believe anyone is actually wanting such a concept to become law. What's next, a license for sex?
Honestly if this were like a drivers license test where even senior citizen's were taught basic computer skill's and had to pass a basic exam to purchase a computer, it would probably cut down on the number of zombies in botnets. It would guarantee that even the most technophobic in our society had the basic skills to protect himself and others. You can do alot of damage if your computer is taken over or hacked without your knowledge.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Dear Australia:
1. Get a hardware firewall and configure it properly.
2. Don't open unexpected attachments, even if you're trying to help because those strata minutes must have been sent to you by mistake and you should read them to find out who to send them to.
3. Don't click the banners.
4. No, it's not true. Don't forward the email.
5. If a computer asks you for information, lie.
6. It's not your bank. It's NEVER your bank. It's also never paypal, amazon, your ISP, or the police.
Love,
1999.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
I can understand where they are coming from, but they are going to implement it wrong. (with the heavy-handed license approach) Rather, I think that computer literacy should be something that should be taught in school along with reading and math, since computer skills essential in this day and age. The class shouldn't be about how to use popular software, (although covering operating systems besides Windows would be a plus) but should cover basic skills instead. People need to learn why they shouldn't click the "greetingcard.exe" attachment in their email inbox or why it is a bad idea to share too much personal information online. People don't always pick on stuff like that by themselves, so it has to be taught.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
You don't need to "enforce" the license via law enforcement, although it could make it interesting in connection with legislation where your computer was found to be a member of a botnet if you didn't have one. All you need to do is require that businesses only employ computer operators who have a license. I'm pretty sure you'd have a hard time getting a job as a delivery driver, say, without a valid driving license. How many career opportunities do you think that you'd have in the world if you need a license to use a computer for business. Pretty much any office work is out, and in theory you couldn't even work at McDonald's because their cash registers are actually PCs. It get's even more essential if ISPs need to see one to create an account, and technically modern mobile phones mean that could apply to cellular carriers too.
What you think of the idea is certainly up for discussion, but if you can get business on board then it very practical indeed.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
It seems like yet another reason, to create yet another bureaucracy, to collect yet more fees from people for doing the same things that they do every day.
They should put that on billboards and every other kind of public service announcement all over the world. Not that it would work particularly well, but over time it might. Like the gradual reduction of smoking in the US.
>>> but if you can get business on board then it very practical indeed.
... from nearly every aspect. and in general it just sounds like another government bureaucracy that will be bloated and increase our taxes. to be honest, i'm surprised president obama hasn't already proposed this in america. but maybe he needs to gain control of the internet first, and then he will regulate it.
i still don't think it's practical
Honestly I'd like to see them create separate tests for Linux, Mac and Windows
That's hardly an inclusive list. I'm not going to bother reading the article, the idea of an internet license has been floated for a long time now, but they probably need to add smart phones too.
If this actually makes sense (I do not think it does), the obvious next step is to require people to purchase internet insurance in case they get into an accident/install malware and spread SPAM or DDOS attacks.
Sigh.
Also, if you live in the US, and want to use a computer to connect to a .AU web site, you're going to have to fly all the way to Australia to take your computing test at the Australian Department of Electro Computers to get a license and therefore permission to access the australian interweb, otherwise you'll get a warning on your first offense, assessed a large escalating fine on your second, third, and fourth offenses, and finally, on your fifth offense, you will be required to mail your computer to the AU enforcement office for impoundment until you settle matters.
This is clearly thinly-disguised proposal to bolster Australia's tourism industry, in light of the economic recession.
Honestly I'd like to see them create separate tests for Linux, Mac and Windows cause one test does NOT apply to all three.
Well, the real test with Linux is installing it. The real test with Windows is not having to reinstall it every few months. I've only used a Mac a handful of times, but I'd imagine the real test there is enduring the daily beatings for your lunch money.
Okay, I tend to agree with you.
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
With any other country I'd be prepared to laugh it off, but the current Australian government is stupid, technologically ignorant and authoritarian enough to try this.
They're pushing for enough control of the internet as it is, a license to communicate in the first place is just begging for abuse.
I expect Linux and Mac users probably require a special "UNIX" endorsment on their license to run a real OS, like large truck drivers need.
iPhone and similar mobile devices (with mobile browsers) need a license similar to what one needs to legally operate a motorcycle.
This could cause a resurgence in simpler phone devices, they'd have a niche market for people who don't want to pay the fees for a special license to operate a web browser on a phone.
Also, don't forget, these licenses only last 4 years, they contain a picture, and can only be renewed online once every other time.
So every 8 years, you have to go back to the Department of Electrocomputers and wait in line for 2 or 3 hours to get your renewal, as well as your typing skills (WPM) test.
What's next, a license for sex?
Sadly, that actually makes more sense in this day and age of incurable STDs. The license states clearly when your last test was done and which (if any) STDs you have.
That should actually be welcome news to the average slashdotter who rarely ventures from his mother's basement - you're now a highly prized date. And even better news to Americans who would now have grounds to sue if they caught an STD from having sex with someone who showed a clean license.
Honestly I'd like to see them create separate tests for Linux, Mac and Windows cause one test does NOT apply to all three.
Sure it does. "This is the address bar. This part is the hostname. 'http' means you're in danger, 'https' means there's a bit less danger, a green bar with the name of the company you're trying to do business with means there's even less." "Don't open unexpected email attachments, no matter how much free porn they promise." "If the lights on your modem are always on even when you're not using the computer, get the computer looked at by a professional."
Experts have called for the introduction of a mandatory license for ownership of Dihydrogen Monoxide, citing its common usage in the illegal manufacturing of most controlled substances.
weinersmith
If the incompetence of some of the drivers I see on the roads is any indication, I doubt an internet license will ultimately be very effective either in many cases.
If this gets sufficient attention to gain some traction in a sufficiently inclined governent, then I think you'll see government, the intelligence community, law enforcement and big media all jump on board with their lobbyists in tow PDQ. Then you've got all of the ICT contractors that service them and will inevitably see this as a fat revenue stream (whether the idea works or not). Frankly, I'm surprised we've got this far since 9/11 before the idea has come up in front of government as opposed to in an IT joke.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Dear Sir,
REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP
First, I must solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. This is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and 'top secret'. You have been recommended by an associate who assured me in confidence of your ability and reliability to prosecute a transaction of great magnitudeinvolving a pending business transaction requiring maximum confidence. We are top officials of the Federal Government Contract Review Panel who are interested in importation of goods into our country with funds which are presently trapped in Nigeria. In order to commence this business we solicit your assistance to enable us transfer into your account the said trapped funds.
The source of this fund is as follows: During the last Military Regime here in Nigeria, the Government officials set up companies and awarded themselves contracts which were grossly over- invoiced in various ministries. The present government set up a Contract Review Panel and we have identified a lot of inflated contract funds which are presently floating in the Central Bank Of Nigeria ready for payment. However, by virtue of our position as civil servants and members of this panel, we cannot acquire this money in our names. I have therefore, been delegated by my other colleagues in the panel to look for an overseas partner into whose account we would transfer the sum of US$21,500,000.00 [Twenty-One Million, Five Hundred Thousand U.S Dollars]
Hence we are writing you this letter.
We have agreed to share the money thus:
1. 20% for the account owner you
2. 70% for us [ Myself and other members of my panel ]
3. 10% to be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses direct or incidental to the execution of this transaction.
It is from the 70% that we wish to commence the importation business. Please, note that this transaction is 100% safe and we hope to commence the transfer latest Ten (10) banking days from the date of the receipt of the following information, company's name, Address, Telephone and Fax number.
The above information will enable us write letters of claim and job description respectively. This way we will use your company's name to apply for payment and re-award the contract in your company's name. We are looking forward to doing this business with you and solicit your confidentiality in this transaction.
Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above Email address.
I will bring you into the complete picture of this pending project when I have heard from you.
Remember this is a Deal so treat with utmost confidentiality.
Yours faithfully,
DR. YABRIL OMOTAYO
We Mac users don't have 'lunch money'. Carrying cash is far below us, and we wouldn't dream of any meal as pedestrian as 'lunch'. We live mainly on a diet of coffee (real coffee, not the plebeian Starbucks imitation that Windows-users drink or [shudder] instant coffee). When we dine, we do so lavishly, at the expense of others.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The ACS has a sweetheart deal negotiated with a clueless former government. Any computer professional coming to Oz needs to pay the ACS $$$ to write them a letter saying "The applicant is a programmer who can get work here." The ACS has a monopoly on this. No other organization is allowed to write these letters. And on migrating the applicant has to become a member of the ACS.
I know one programmer who migrated under this scheme. Second year he kept his ACS membership fee and instead he and his family rented a beach house for a week with the money. Much better value was his conclusion.
What can you do on Linux that can't be done in windows?
Make fun of the Windows users from the high vantage point of a Linux user?
Once the government gains the power to grant a license, it has the power to take away the license. Then, people start censoring themselves. (if I say the wrong thing on the internet, they'll take away my license.) I have to give my SSN every year just to get a license to fish, and the little machine checks into a state database before it will print out the license. It sure leaves no doubt as to who is the serf and who is the landed gentry in this relationship. Similar things would happen with an internet license, but worse.
I called this years ago! There's no way the big boys are going to let this powerful media go uncontrolled. Soon you will need a license to run a server, a web page, everything. Every packet will carry a crypto license from an authority - routers will have hardware to check it - by law! Coming soon!
Identity theft is a misleading term for bank fraud, and fighting it is the banks' responsibility, not the government's or the user's. We know how to do it, it just isn't getting done because of cost. Monetary transactions should be done with dedicated devices so that compromised computers can't be used to steal money. Reducing the number of compromised computers won't help because there are many of them and it only takes a few.
If they simply HAVE to do SOMETHING about this "problem" then might I suggest incentivizing basic computer knowledge as such:
1. Optionally attach a basic computer literacy "certification" to your written drivers test which is renewed at the same place and time (license is imprinted with a symbol similar to the organ donor stuff). Leave the price of the ID / License the same.
2. Government $5-10 dollar tax break for persons acquiring the literacy certification with an equal portion donated to a public fund in charge of supplying our most underfunded public schools with updated computer equipment purchased from used corporate leased equipment (this would be a public bid by hardware vendors for the contracts) with an option to donate your $5-10 credit to the same.
ISP's could be compelled to give customers with this marking a small discount on their service since they will be a slightly lower risk than others.
If enough people got the certification I just HAVE to think that the net effect of a more educated society would have some cost savings SOMEWHERE in the economy the same way that drivers licenses have most certainly prevented or reduced the number of fatal / expensive collisions on the road.
I'm not generally a proponent of bigger government, but if we HAD to do something and massively f-ing expensive and complicated shit like computing licenses is already on the table then I would take my above approach instead of the more Orwellian approach in the summary.
- Toast
Cellphone has: CPU
Computer has: input pad (keyboard)
Cellphone has: input pad (numbers and associated buttons)
Computer has: video screen
Cellphone has: video screen
Computer has: audio out to a jack or speaker
Cellphone has: audio out to a jack or speaker
Computer has: memory RAM
Cellphone has: memory RAM
Computer has: memory storage (HDD or SSD)
Cellphone has: memory storage (usually SSD)
So, given that a cellphone is, for most intention and purpose, fundamentally a fucking COMPUTER, are they going to make people get a license so they can operate it "safely"?
Dear Antipodean legislators considering this legislation:
I want you to know and understand very clearly that I, Ralph Spoilsport (owner and operator of Ralph Spoilsport Motors) think you are a complete and utterly pathetic pack of nimrods and all around stupid ass knuckleheads for letting such a notion get beyond the "gee, that's a dumb idea stage". By even considering this as a possible line of action puts you at the same level of the most knuckledragging retarded dipstick government reps normally only found in the Middle East or Red State America.
If you actually pass this legislation, I hope your arms swell up and drop off.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Dr Smith also said that Australia's banks were "being kind" when they bore the costs of cyber crime.
No, they are simply taking advantage of their customers. Banks should be considered criminally negligent when their customers are victims of identify theft, since the technology to protect their customers exists and is not all that expensive, and the banks and their staff should be punished accordingly.
While I do agree with most of your post, I had to question this one aspect. The term/word passport is a modern one, the working concept of 'passports' is an old one dating back to at least 450 B.C. in the Persian Empire. Maybe even older for all we/I know. :-)
You are correct in stating that it was mostly a diplomatic status and to certify that status on an official basis until recently, but not a new concept.
This said, telling somebody from a law-enforcement agency that they don't need to see your identification is generally frowned upon as those in law enforcement love to be in charge and in control. A lack of ID puts the officer at a distinct disadvantage as they simply don't know how to react to a perfect stranger with no background as to who that person might be.
Yes, and yes.
However, in the USA(IIRC), unless you are operating a motor vehicle** on the gov't. owned roads, you have no legal obligation to show ID to law enforcement on demand.If they feel they have reason to arrest you, it is still their burden to establish who you are for booking you...no matter what tripe they try on you about how it is illegal to deny them your identity.(and they will try this!!!)
Because of all of the fscked laws enacted here in the USA, it can be a grey area and huge can of worms to sort out(see: vagrancy laws), but bottom line is you do not have to ID yourself by Fed. law(which trumps State law) unless you are served with a warrant.
Having said this, it is usually cheaper/easier to cooperate on the ID thing, but YMMV GREATLY!
Hint: check your Federal, State, and Local laws...do some research if it matters to you, and 'stick by yer guns!'
*disclaimer: IANAL*
**In the USA, almost all, if not all States require signing a waiver when you get your Driver's License to agree to show your ID when requested by a law enforcement officer when operating a motor vehicle on the public roadways-it is a requirement...no debate...it is a condition that must be met to keep your driver's license valid.(However, the passengers do not have this same onerous requirement most places, depending on circumstances...again, YMMV)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Does Australia not license criminologists? Failure to do so can result in all manner of self-promoting twits making claims about themselves in order to get listened to long when they rant. In the US this is often seen when private investigators can't make enough money at their primary occupation (installing home and car security systems) and start charging people to listen to them hold forth on anything they think they've wrapped their head around. What makes me draw that parallel is the fact that I see nothing on the AIC web site that says they have a "principal criminologist". Also, keep in mind we do license PIs, but that doesn't stop them from acting a fool in other areas, which seems to be the case here.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
"education was secondary to better technology solutions" - was it a hearing or a sales pitch ? I think this quote say it all "The best AV product resides in the cerebral cortex", so start teaching some common sense in school or even better at home. Like you help your kids with homework, I think it is n execellent idea to help them surf safely. I don't care how much parental control sw you install, that is not going to teach anyone common sense or safe surfing.
-
Murhpys law ? What an optimist
These so-called experts are years behind what we know in the field.
Yes, user education matters. A little.
For example, years ago when "Phishing" was the big buzzword of the day, research revealed that computer "dummies" were pretty bad at distinguishing those phishing mails that came through the filters from genuine stuff. But security experts didn't score much better.
We could certainly wish for a beginner's course to teach people some Netiquette, and tell them that it's a big, bad world out there and stop crying if not everyone works the way you want it, and that that's not because of the technology but because there's a lot of humans sitting on the other side.
But from a security POV, it hardly matters. Give the bucks to lawyers so they can write up some software quality requirement laws and software product liability laws. You'll do ten times as much good.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I want to be on what ever this guy is on. As an alternative, people could stop using Windows Bot.NET