Slashdot Mirror


Chinese Censor-Beating Software Resembles Malware, But Isn't

coondoggie writes "Software designed to beat Chinese censorship may behave in ways that seem suspect, but it is all part of the application's strategy to fool the Great Firewall of China, according to one programmer of the software. 'There are many built-in tricks that do all kinds of things to confuse the firewall,' says David Tian, a scientist for NASA who works spare-time on UltraSurf, the free software designed to promote unrestricted Internet access for citizens of China persecuted for being members of Falun Gang, the religious group the Chinese government is trying to suppress."

160 comments

  1. Falun Gang by argux · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think it's Falun Gong

    1. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think it's Falun Gong

      Great, now Slashdot will be censored in China. I hope you are happy.

    2. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Uhm Falun gang is not far from the truth. Although I do not agree with the Chinese government's methods of persecution, falun gong is akin to scientology in own operations.

      anon. cow. for good reason

    3. Re:Falun Gang by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      Uhm Falun gang is not far from the truth. Although I do not agree with the Chinese government's methods of persecution, falun gong is akin to scientology in own operations.

      anon. cow. for good reason

      Only if you believe everything the Chinese Ministry of Truth (or lack thereof) tells you.
      From my point of view , it's resembles a form of Budhism , and that's one of the most peaceful religions i know.

    4. Re:Falun Gang by rchh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am currently in China and the Internet censoring is not as bad as I had thought. I can open most websites, including BBC and New York Times. Most online proxies work. I can read any article from wikipedia- including that of Falun Gong ,Tibet and Human Rights.The most notable failures are Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch websites. Maybe I can read most websites because they are in English?

      --
      Computers can reverse entropy.
    5. Re:Falun Gang by PiSkyHi · · Score: 1

      Its akin to scientology in a way, I think only in that it is a form of Qi gong, as such, many of its principles are about the energy of the body and proclaim things as science, when in fact they are spiritually based, not scientifically based.

      This is true of all qi gong forms in China - most of them well respected like a science, but without rigor for truth.

      Many qi gong principles are common sense and others are almost like faith healing. None are to be tested, but many have a good standing in universities.

      A bit like a Western Universities Philosophy department, its who you quote, not your rationality, that counts.

    6. Re:Falun Gang by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Or you're just being tracked. Don't worry, someone will be by to collect you for reeducation and execution shortly.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    7. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      -1 boring, and spoken like someone who's never even visited China.

      To get the attention of the Chinese authorities, you would have to be important. That means someone who's a threat in some way.
      Assuming you're a white English speaker, that rules you out. You wouldn't even appear on the radar.

      Now the perverse thing was that I found China to be more free, everything being relative.
      I don't smoke pot.
      I don't steal cars.
      I do share thousands of files, some of which are going to attract the growing intellectual property police in the west.
      I like to visit a few English sites that are blocked in China, which can easily be prox-ied to, and nobody actually cares.

      If the UK does eventually criminalize sharing a few shitty files, then they will make me a criminal. I might have to move back to China and pick up the threads I left there.
      In China you are free to do what you want, as long as you are white, or don't break the law.

    8. Re:Falun Gang by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      And my mother practices Reiki, beliving crystal rocks and chakra/chi are used to heal the body, despite (to my knowledge) any actual benefits noted by any reputable scientific source beyond the placebo effect.

      There are a lot of religious groups who claim their religion follows the strict, rigorous testings of science. Hell, creationists have museums to "explain" why it's a scientifically valid theory.

      The problem with your comparison to Scientology is when most people hear "Scientology," they think "money-grubbing, murderous, evil bastards."

    9. Re:Falun Gang by khayman80 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes. The great firewall blocks Chinese access more than English access.

    10. Re:Falun Gang by sm4096 · · Score: 0

      Hardly FLG. That is one item that didn't seem involved in the Tibet issue. I am a bored nerd with too much time on his hands. Oh one more item... -- If you ever find yourself in a land where everything is taken too literally It is best to have another language to fall back upon. This is esp true for psychiatric computer science students. Too much hawking radiation is bad. I wonder just how many programmers know more then one language.

    11. Re:Falun Gang by PiSkyHi · · Score: 1

      Actually, I tend to think of that of any modern American Christian religion.

    12. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And I think it's a religious cult with strong anti-homosexual sentiments that spouts all sorts of anti-rational new-age nonsense and gets a lot of respect from Westerners just because it's being repressed.

    13. Re:Falun Gang by millennial · · Score: 1

      It's absolutely different from Buddhism in every way. Do try to learn something about it. They teach that interracial children are the result of moral degeneration, that homosexuality is degenerate behavior, that illnesses are caused by possession of interdimensional beings, that you can heal yourself with some sort of mystical Qi energy, that you can walk through solid walls with proper training, and that there are numerous aliens living on Earth in human disguises.

      --
      I am scientifically inaccurate.
    14. Re:Falun Gang by BakaHoushi · · Score: 1

      To be honest, so do I, but I'm speaking from how most people think.

    15. Re:Falun Gang by kdemetter · · Score: 1

      The problem with your comparison to Scientology is when most people hear "Scientology," they think "money-grubbing, murderous, evil bastards."

      You are right , that is exactly what i thought .

    16. Re:Falun Gang by Jurily · · Score: 1

      despite (to my knowledge) any actual benefits noted by any reputable scientific source beyond the placebo effect.

      The good old placebo effect has healed more people than any of your fancy science. If she uses crystal rocks and she's healthy, why do you care?

      If you have a headache and a placebo pill that only works 80% of the time, take 10 and be done with it. Fun fact: said placebo pills are actually banned in the US. I don't think I'll ever understand why.

    17. Re:Falun Gang by rainsford · · Score: 1

      I don't see a lot of Westerners converting or anything...but what's wrong with having an issue with them being repressed? Your counter-argument is that they're a bunch of wackos with "weird" beliefs...so Westerners should be OK with that "cult" being repressed? People with beliefs you disagree with NOT being repressed is pretty much the core of liberal, democratic Western beliefs. Comparing Falun Gong to Scientology may be accurate, but it's a stupid argument when you consider that Scientologists aren't being arrested for their beliefs, at least in the US.

    18. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about porn?!

    19. Re:Falun Gang by invalid_user · · Score: 1

      And my mother practices Reiki, beliving crystal rocks and chakra/chi are used to heal the body, despite (to my knowledge) any actual benefits noted by any reputable scientific source beyond the placebo effect.

      Do not underestimate the power of the placebo.

      http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect

    20. Re:Falun Gang by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Do not underestimate the power of the placebo.

      "Ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for a good blaster."

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    21. Re:Falun Gang by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Do not underestimate the power of the placebo.

      I wonder if there is such a thing as an anti-placebo effect. Some time ago, on a visit to my physiotherapy practitioner, the lady offered to try acupuncture as a remedy to my shoulder condition. Since there was no extra charge, I alowed her to go ahead, assuming that although I perceived this kind of treatment as nothing more than mumbo-jumbo, it could at least do no harm.

      I was pleasantly surprised to find that the treatment was immediately effective. The precept of a placebo effect shouldn't work here, since I was quite hostile to the notion, but the treatment worked anyway.

    22. Re:Falun Gang by selven · · Score: 1

      Why would China care about keeping information from people who are either going to take the return flight home in a few days or are already educated enough to circumvent the censorship?

    23. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, if Falun Gang is pressuring the US government to grant the political status as they did in China, Falun Gang will be branded as cult and be jailed even faster than in China.

    24. Re:Falun Gang by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Because if they are citizens, they can in turn educate others. Probably why they don't care about English sites, although I would think that is a obvious vector to bypass restrictions.

    25. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's no more a religious group than Scientology.

    26. Re:Falun Gang by Slur · · Score: 1

      And you might also think differently about the Hare Krishnas if you read Monkey on a Stick - although it seems perhaps a more peaceful sect now than during the frenetic 60's.

      --
      -- thinkyhead software and media
    27. Re:Falun Gang by ross.w · · Score: 1

      I found this myself when I was there. There are laws, but they appeared to be enforced selectively, based on whether or not they are trying to put pressure on you or someone you work for.

      --
      If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
    28. Re:Falun Gang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but you fail to mention that sites like Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter are all blocked. The GFW (great firewall, as we call it here) certainly can't stop anyone who has decent computer knowledge from getting to the sites that they want to see, but it is a huge pain. They are getting smarter too, now we have to proxy DNS requests as well.

      The point of the GFW isn't to stop foreigners or even to really control the small educated portion that even cares to look outside the mainstream media here. The point is to keep most people off certain sites. But by and large the forming of public opinion is done at a more basic level. Ask a Chinese person what they think of, say, Falun Gong, and you'll get the same answer every time. Almost word for word. Truly amazing the homogeneity of thought here.

    29. Re:Falun Gang by Gravitron+5000 · · Score: 1

      It just proves that nothing makes you forget your current troubles more than being poked with something sharp and pointy.

    30. Re:Falun Gang by dintech · · Score: 1

      when most people hear "Scientology," they think "money-grubbing, murderous, evil bastards."

      Isn't that true of all mass organsied religion?

  2. Perhaps.... by Darkness404 · · Score: 0, Troll

    says David Tian, a scientist for NASA who works spare-time on UltraSurf, the free software designed to promote unrestricted Internet access for citizens of China persecuted for being members of Falun Gang, the religious group the Chinese government is trying to suppress."

    So the same government with flag@whitehouse.gov wants freedom of information in other countries but not in their own?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Perhaps.... by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      So any programming produced during your "spare time" will be claimed by your employer as "work for hire"? I suggest that you renegotiate your employment contracts.

    2. Re:Perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because trying to counteract misinformation is TOTALLY like putting people in jail for their religious beliefs. Or, for that matter, having your FUCKING POSTMAN spy on you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_TIPS

      Do I even need to bring up Nixon spying on absolutely everyone?

      It's amazing how bent out of shape conservatives have gotten since they realized that unlimited executive authority ended up in the hands of somebody they don't agree with...

    3. Re:Perhaps.... by retchdog · · Score: 1

      I know, the contrast with the Operation TIPS thing is fucking hilarious. Ah, Republicans.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    4. Re:Perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      A) Not everyone complaining about Obama is a conservative.

      B) Not everyone complaining about Obama liked Bush.

      I hate them both for what they've done to our freedoms.

    5. Re:Perhaps.... by rainsford · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Not everyone...but most people. In any case, the counter-example isn't that there are people who dislike Obama who aren't conservative, the counter-example is that there are conservatives who apply the same pro-executive authority viewpoint to Obama that they did to Bush. And while I am willing to agree that not all Obama haters are conservative, I do NOT think there are very many conservatives out there who give Obama the free "he's the President" pass that they spent 8 years using to excuse Bush's bullshit.

  3. Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Article mispelled the name, subject has the right name of the "religious" group. It is worth nothing that Falun Gong is actually a cult that believes you can become a God by setting yourself on fire or via suicide by jumping off buildings, etc. This is not a set of rationale individuals who have chosen to congregate to discuss some philosophical issues with the world. They're a nutty cult like Heaven's Gate that believes they become immortal through self-imposed death. For the rest of us to criticize the Chinese for a crackdown on something we do not understand before actually evaluating their motives is a bit presumptuous.

    1. Re:Falun Gong by cat_jesus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh yeah that's way nuttier than believing drinking the blood and eating the body of a zombie will get you into heaven.

    2. Re:Falun Gong by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      As Lenin slipped into Russia with German support,
      Li Hongzhi slipped Falun Gong into China with US support.
      The CPC knows its history :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Falun Gong by descil · · Score: 1

      Wait, a REAL zombie? This Christianity thing might actually be worth some looking into..

      *is slapped by a noodly appendage of the flying spaghetti monster*

      never mind...

    4. Re:Falun Gong by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      ...drinking the blood and eating the body of a zombie will get you into heaven.

      I do not know of anybody that considers that a prerequisite.

    5. Re:Falun Gong by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      I do not know of anybody that considers that a prerequisite.

      It's called the eucharistic rite. Basically, the cult works like this: Eat the body, drink the blood, [redacted], go to heaven. Warning: Some members believe that you have to pour water over them, others believe that submerging them in a lake works, but regardless there other prerequisites besides eating brains and sucking blood. Please visit your priest and see if eating brains is right for you!

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:Falun Gong by Wolfier · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's probably not a cult group, but more resembles a hate group where I see them in Toronto.

      They don't seem to practise what they were supposed to believe and preach (which is "Truth, Compassion, Tolerance"). Everyday they set up a booth and spread hate message about the Chinese Communist Party.

      Let's put aside our judgement towards CCC itself, which must not be very positive anyway - they way Falun Gong people act just seem to totally contradict "Compassion" and "Tolerance" and it seems more and more like they're preaching "an eye for an eye".

      I would not let my children go anywhere near this "religion".

    7. Re:Falun Gong by maugle · · Score: 1

      If the main tenet of the Falun Gong really was "suicide rocks!", the Chinese wouldn't need to crack down on them. They'd just have to wait a couple weeks and the problem would solve itself.

    8. Re:Falun Gong by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      "They're a nutty cult like Heaven's Gate"

      This looks like a Microsoft bashing post to me.....

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    9. Re:Falun Gong by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well pretty much any new religious movement is going to be absolutely insane. It makes sense for a communist government to suppress Falun Gong.. the problem is that they do it by treating practitioners as criminals instead of as victims.

      The controversy really doesn't have anything to do with the psychological issues though.. it's that they're imprisoning people, torturing people, and harvesting organs.. not cool for any reason

    10. Re:Falun Gong by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      It's called the eucharistic rite.

      I am aware of that, though it's usually called Communion among Protestants. Like I said, I don't know anyone that considers it a prerequisite.

    11. Re:Falun Gong by macshit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Everyday they set up a booth and spread hate message about the Chinese Communist Party. Let's put aside our judgement towards CCC itself,....

      They don't seem to be preaching violent revolution against the chinese communist party, merely saying that it sucks, and people should not support them. So our opinion of the CCC matters quite a bit in how we judge what they say (and lets face it, for the most part, the CCC does suck)...

      they way Falun Gong people act just seem to totally contradict "Compassion" and "Tolerance" and it seems more and more like they're preaching "an eye

      I would not let my children go anywhere near this "religion".

      for an eye".

      the CCC quite happily kills and imprisons all those who resist or complain about its rule, and even those it suspects of resisting, or those who merely defend the rights of others to do so. Falun Gong has certainly been on the receiving end of such persecution. If Falun Gong were guilty of "eye for an eye" thinking, they'd be advocating similar actions against the CCC; but as far as I've seen, they're not, not even close. Though they certainly go to great lengths to demonize the CCC (to the extent they can be kinda annoying), every action I've seen Falun Gong advocate has been non-violent, and non-oppressive (mostly calling for individual chinese to disown the communist party).

      So really I don't know what you're talking about....

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    12. Re:Falun Gong by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Tsk, tsk. This is an important cultural and religious phenomenon that you really should be aware of. Know then that John 6:49 goes something like this. Jesus is getting off the "dividing the loaves and fishes" episode and was evacuating across the lake; the crowd followed him anyway and now they're asking him for a miraculous sign so they can believe in him. They suggest the old manna-in-the-desert trick as an example. Many of them may be operating off of the popular "revolutionary messiah" premise, believing that there will soon be a military overthrow of the existing oppressive world order. They don't quite get what they expected:

      "Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

      Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

      Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."

      On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe."

      ... From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

      Some interpretations dismiss this as a purely symbolic exercise, but the language isn't really the language of symbolism, and furthermore the actual working metaphors for "to eat (someone's) flesh" and "to drink (someone's) blood" mean "to persecute (someone)" and "to oppress (them)". The traditional interpretation for a long time - today, the Catholic and Orthodox stories - integrate this with the subsequent "Last Supper" rite in which blessed bread / wine are said to become his (Jesus's) actual body and blood (though the actual appearance and taste, of course, is unchanged, perhaps recognizing that, in fact, cannibalism is something that people find icky in oractice.)

      The whole flesh-as-bread premise probably works a lot better with people who have a diet of mostly-bread, and actually experience handling bread dough, for whatever that's worth.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    13. Re:Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Opposing a secular government, or any specific government, may be itself suppressed and opposed, and I'll not speak to the morality of that, but to attempt to mislabel such opposition groups "hate groups" in the suppression of dissent seems a grotesque misuse of the term. To tie peaceful activists to terrorists and genocidaires that would target select ethnic groups, genders, etc to violence out of hatred is an abominable act of which you should be deeply, deeply ashamed.

    14. Re:Falun Gong by Wolfier · · Score: 1

      > To tie peaceful activists to terrorists and genocidaires that would target select ethnic groups, genders, etc to violence out of hatred

      A group can be a hate group without violence. CCC sucks, but watching what Falun Gong people does is also very disgusting, because it's quite obvious that the tone of their pitch *is* out of hatred, whether it's violent or not.

      I know a lot of group protest with peaceful messages, and annoying passers-by with flyers with a hateful tone written all over it is not one of them - even if you don't see violence in a video taken of them.

    15. Re:Falun Gong by Wolfier · · Score: 1

      From the tone of their pitch, I'm sure if they have the mean for violence, they would.

      It is the right thing to do to point out what the CCP does wrongly (and there are tons of examples). However, if you skip elaborating things and instead just put up posters and handing out fliers that say "MAY THE HEAVEN DESTROY CCP!!" and unnecessarily exaggerate your message, it would totally contradict their message of "Truth, Tolerance".

      The FLG people I see, while they may not be a representative of all FLG practitioners, do things that satisfies the search results for "define: hate group" on Google:

              * A hate group is an organized group or movement that advocates physical or verbal aggression toward or refusal to interact with persons on the ...
                  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group

              If you read their messages on the flyers, it sounds just like a verbal aggression.

              * an organization whose primary purpose is to promote animosity, hostility, and malice against persons belonging to a group of a race, religion ...
                  www.umw.edu/bias/terms/default.php

              It looks like they're spending at least 80% of their time to proomte animosity and hostility against the CCP. I have never seen our local FLG people preach their "Truth/Compassion/Tolerance".

              * The term "hate group" is used to describe any organization in any sector of society that aggressively demonizes or dehumanizes members of a ...
                  www.publiceye.org/glossary/glossary_big.html

              Their demonization is nothing short of aggressive.

      It is possible to spread the message about the malice of the CCP without the sensationalism, exaggeration and phony researches. Frankly, just a partial but factual list of what the CCP does in the past 10 years would disgust any member of a civilised society. The way the Toronto FLG people do it, it gives me an impression that they're consumed by FLG's hate towards CCP. Maybe if they replaced the sensationalism, phony researches and the "HEAVEN DESTROYS!!" message that pollute people's mind and replace them with a civilised elaboration of facts, they may get their point across MUCH more effectively then they're now.

      Until they do that, I still hold my view they look more like a hate group than a religion to me.

    16. Re:Falun Gong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know people of Falun Gong do not call it "suicide", they call it "go to haven".

    17. Re:Falun Gong by Toonol · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Isn't it a requirement of Catholicism? From the light reading I've done, it really seems that according to strict Catholic teachings, you have to have all your nutty rituals strictly in order when you die, or you burn forever.

      That's one way in which Protestants have seemed to make more sense to me. It's just an up or down "Accept Jesus y/n" type choice. No chanting, no strange priesthood.

      God, sometimes it just boggles my mind that we still have religion. I'll be playing a fantasy game, or reading a novel, with priests and churches and angels and demons, and it hits me that 90% of America fervently believes stuff that seems cheesy in a video game.

    18. Re:Falun Gong by macshit · · Score: 1

      From the tone of their pitch, I'm sure if they have the mean for violence, they would.

      Er, your being "sure" isn't enough. If they advocate people (not "heaven") commiting violence against the CC, where?

      It is the right thing to do to point out what the CCP does wrongly (and there are tons of examples). However, if you skip elaborating things

      They do spend a huge amount of time pointing all the horrid things the CCP does -- in fact, almost all public speech by Falun Gong I've seen consists of reports of that. [In other words, "elaborating things"]

      and instead just put up posters and handing out fliers that say "MAY THE HEAVEN DESTROY CCP!!"

      That's the equivalent of saying "god damn the CCP" -- it's hyperbole and maybe a bit childish, but it isn't the same thing as advocating violence.

      * A hate group is an organized group or movement that advocates physical or verbal aggression toward or refusal to interact with persons on the ...

      Oh please; a silly and excessively hand-wringing definition of "hate group" isn't interesting to anybody except lawyers and politicians.

      Real people are far more practical, and yes the nature of the opponent counts quite a lot in how most people think about the situation -- "verbal aggression" against a very nasty and literally murderous opponent is not something most people would begrudge.

      [Surely there are good reasons for that definition -- in particular, definitions like that are general, and intended to be applied in cases where the opponent is weak, and things like "verbal aggression" can actually be harmful. Not the against CCP.]

      It is possible to spread the message about the malice of the CCP without the sensationalism, exaggeration and phony researches.

      No doubt. I agree that Falun Gong's approach is often pretty silly, and kind of childish. They'd probably be a lot more effective if they tried to approach things more maturely.

      But so far I've seen no evidence that they actually promote violence. "verbal aggression" against the CCP is not violence, and saying "may heaven destroy" is not promoting it (unless I suppose you think god will actually do it, but I suspect nobody here does...).

      Until they do that, I still hold my view they look more like a hate group than a religion to me.

      I can't determine how you see things, but your view appears decidedly skewed, and I don't think you've demonstrated what you're claiming.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    19. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      yups is catholicism the other is this

      baptism(not long after birth)
      and no communion until......
      first holy communion(aged 7)
      where after you can eat all the little wafers as much as you like then
      confirmation(aged was 11-12)

      HOWEVER that how it WAS!..LOL just spoke to a catholic friend and he says that the infallible church of Rome has admitted an error in the ritual order as was

      it seems it seems that it should have been baptism ====>confirmation =====> first holy communion!

      now where is that flying spaghetti monster? i am hungry and got some bolognese sauce.... it's communion time!...LOL

    20. Re:Falun Gong by dimeglio · · Score: 1

      We getting rather off topic here. Where are the moderator's with troll and off-topics?

      China's censor is designed for Chinese who live in China. I see no problem with that unless you are part of a resistance movement who want to attempt a coup against the Chinese government.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    21. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      oops.. my dyslexia kicks in again...

      that should have read.....

      yups IN catholicism the ORDER is.......
      oops

    22. Re:Falun Gong by ancientt · · Score: 1

      You have a point. To support bypassing the censors is to support Chinese who break their country's laws. Someone who believes that countries should be left alone in governing their people should not support the flouting of its laws. Many here believe, however, that free speech and access to public information are human rights that cannot be justifiably taken by any government from its populace.

      --
      B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
    23. Re:Falun Gong by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      first holy communion(aged 7) where after you can eat all the little wafers as much as you like then

      A child who eats as many wafers as he pleases is not aware of the essential difference between "the bread of the eucharist" and ordinary bread, and is therefore ill equipped to receive communion.

      From Quam Singulari (1910)

      1. The age of discretion, both for Confession and for Holy Communion, is the time when a child begins to reason, that is about the seventh year, more or less. From that time on begins the obligation of fulfilling the precept of both Confession and Communion.

      2. A full and perfect knowledge of Christian doctrine is not necessary either for First Confession or for First Communion. Afterwards, however, the child will be obliged to learn gradually the entire Catechism according to his ability.

      3. The knowledge of religion which is required in a child in order to be properly prepared to receive First Communion is such that he will understand according to his capacity those Mysteries of faith which are necessary as a means of salvation (necessitate medii) and that he can distinguish between the Bread of the Eucharist and ordinary, material bread, and thus he may receive Holy Communion with a devotion becoming his years....

    24. Re:Falun Gong by lptport1 · · Score: 1

      That's fine. Eventually, all the people who believe it will "go to heaven", and you'll be left with a sane population. Albeit slightly smaller.

      Oh, wait, that would kill two birds with one stone.

      If they don't appreciate the importance of their physical life enough to live until the end of it, then who is going to force them to appreciate it?

      Hopefully, they'll figure it out before they cook themselves. Or someone will find a way to help them. A choice, however misguided, is still a choice.

    25. Re:Falun Gong by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      now where is that flying spaghetti monster? i am hungry and got some bolognese sauce.... it's communion time!...LOL

      You will also need pirate regalia for that.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    26. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      i did where did i say i gave a flying shit about it?

      where did i say i was anything resembling a practicing catholic?

      it's all, as they say here in Scotland a "raging pile of shite", hence my spaghetti monster comment

      so save yer papal pedantry for someone who actually gives a fuck..LOL. what i said was RIGHT in essence
      after that they can go to communion every time it's on and eat those silly wee wafers as much as they like whether they understand it or not. and at that age, let's be honest the chances of them understanding isn't very high at all.

      taken from Pax681's book of who gives a fuck?

    27. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      heading to "Pirate 'R' US" now! cheers for the tip!

    28. Re:Falun Gong by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I don't think I would have made a very good Catholic. Apart from the fact that my cultural background is to regard Catholics as idolaters, I prefer my wafers with some nice cheese on them.

    29. Re:Falun Gong by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      If you're going to criticize a religion for being inconsistent, then you might as well get the details right...

    30. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      hmmmz i still think you are mistaking me for someone who actually gives a shit

      am i wrong in saying that a child CAN take communion as many times a day as he/she likes?..YES I WAS.

      the chances of some god bothering priest turning a child away from a sacrament in these days of declining numbers is....NIL.

      my info came from my friend is a member of those nutbars opus dei. and they are VERY VERY catholic. he is fine with my views on religion. i read him out your post and he laughed his ass off... the reason.....and i quote "i think they'd rather have the numbers than say no to a child and risk putting them off coming in the first place"

      so let me get my facts right.... THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD... read some Nietzsche my man....

      i am bloody consistent in that..in the same way that you are consistent in your bollocks

    31. Re:Falun Gong by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Nietzsche was an ass.

      IIRC, there are factions of the church that favor the latin mass, because it's more akin to magic--"the mystery of the church." I suppose that if a kid wants to eat, and is willing to sit through the mumbo-jumbo, he might eventually grow to like the mumbo-jumbo of the church and become a practicing Catholic, if not a completely conscious one. A warm body. If that's what the church wants, so be it.

      If the kid is really, truly hungry (in a non spiritual sense), he'd do better to have real meal instead of consecrated wafers. And a priest would do well to sate that hunger with real nutrition.

    32. Re:Falun Gong by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      ROFL. where did i mention hungry?..LOL

      who gives a shit about the latin mass?

      talk about taking comments out of context to satisfy a petty burning desire within yourself to nit-pick.

      i was in no way referring to satisfying hunger, what a farcical thing to say

      i would suggest sir that if your anus puckered any tighter that it would collapse into a black hole

      Nietzsche and his writing writing is , at a guess , a damn sight highly regarded than you opining which looks somewhat like poorly disguised pro church crapioca(cue links to various internet sites of people who don't like or appreciate Nietzsche -YAWN)

      the ONLY "mystery of the church" is why people still buy into that crap tbh. then again some people need a crutch and something else to blame for their/the world's shortcomings(ie evil).

    33. Re:Falun Gong by shirotakaaki · · Score: 1

      The controversy really doesn't have anything to do with the psychological issues though.. it's that they're imprisoning people, torturing people, and harvesting organs.. not cool for any reason

      Was this about FG or China? Both seem to fit this description.

    34. Re:Falun Gong by Wolfier · · Score: 1

      Everyone's view point is by definition subjective and thus "skewed". I repeatedly stated that it's *MY VIEW* that they appear more like a hate group *TO ME*, so I have clearly demonstrated what I'm claiming.

      If you cling to the notion that physical violence is a necessity of being a hate group and any other definition is "skewed", then we'll just need to agree to disagree here. For anyone in the GTA, go near Chinatown and see for yourselves and you'll know what I mean by "consumed by hate".

  4. Confuse it? How? by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You shouldn't be trying to "confuse it", you should be making sure that the traffic patterns aren't unique and discernable. In other words, using steganography. All this "confusion" stuff I read in the article gives the user a distinct pattern of behavior that can identify the user as actively using said software. If you're trying to get under the radar of the government, don't start by sending up a big digital flare that says "Hey! I'm trying to bypass your crap." It usually ends badly for the would-be revolutionary, who's first job (I might add) is to survive.

    Even in so-called "free" countries like the US, the government can imprison people indefinately on the off chance that the encrypted data may be subversive. How do you suppose China would handle it? Encryption doesn't enable free speech -- a gun to the head is a pretty effective way of recovering the key.

    Save lives: Use stenography.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Confuse it? How? by tecnico.hitos · · Score: 4, Funny

      Save lives: Use stenography.

      abv cmt shd b fxd

      --
      The good, the evil and the vacuum tubes.
    2. Re:Confuse it? How? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      They might do something like the firefox plug "Track me not"
      http://mrl.nyu.edu/~dhowe/TrackMeNot/
      It sends out search based noise and obfuscation by making randomized search-queries to popular search engines, e.g., AOL, Yahoo!, Google, and MSN..

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Confuse it? How? by girlintraining · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      abv cmt shd b fxd

      ebg13 be fvzvyne vf abg fgrabtencul. Nyfb, gb jungrire zbqrengbe qrpbqrf guvf: Zbq rirelbar jub cbfgf gur bevtvany -1, sbe orvat gbb ynml gb tbbtyr sbe ebg13.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stenography:
            1. The art or process of writing in shorthand.
            2. The art or practice of transcribing speech with a stenograph machine.
            3. Material transcribed in shorthand. (answers.com)

      Steganography:
      Is the art and science of writing hidden messages in such a way that no one, apart from the sender and intended recipient, suspects the existence of the message, a form of security through obscurity. (wikipedia.com)

    5. Re:Confuse it? How? by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It sends out search based noise and obfuscation by making randomized search-queries to popular search engines, e.g., AOL, Yahoo!, Google, and MSN..

      *face palm* Googling "how do I blow up government buildings" is going to attract the attention of shub internet no matter how many bogus queries you put before or after it. Most filtering schemes are based on content -- they don't care to do statistical analysis. You're just not that important. All they need to hang you is proof you visited a certain website or looked for certain terms. For example, if I typ[$)%(T^NO CARRIER

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    6. Re:Confuse it? How? by Korbeau · · Score: 1
    7. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It says Above comment should be fixed. stpd cnt bth

    8. Re:Confuse it? How? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      It says Above comment should be fixed. stpd cnt bth

      trl w/sml pns.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    9. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure how they're going to use secretarial shorthand to save lives. Unless their steganography relies on hiding messages in meeting minutes?

    10. Re:Confuse it? How? by VocationalZero · · Score: 1

      you should be making sure that the traffic patterns aren't unique and discernable. In other words, using steganography. All this "confusion" stuff I read in the article gives the user a distinct pattern of behavior that can identify the user as actively using said software.

      From what I gather from the article, it is actually the opposite of what you though it was:

      Chinese authorities monitor UltraSurf carefully and try to identify signatures that can be used to set filters, so the software sends out useless traffic to make noise that makes it difficult to characterize the legitimate traffic, he says. ... UltraSurf programmers play a cat-and-mouse game with Chinese censors trying to block its traffic, so the team working on it has to continually alter its methods to adapt to each innovation in the Great Firewall, he says. "We have a great understanding of the Great Firewall and how to defeat it."

      It could have been clearer if he had used the word "deceive" instead of "confuse", or if you had actually read the article. Oh wait sorry, forgot where I was.

    11. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are so right but I have yet to find an easily employable solution
      so as suggested before currently using http://www.internetfreedom.org/UltraSurf
      and linked tools
      do you have a steganography tool you can recommend or are you just blowing wind

    12. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *face palm* Googling "how do I blow up government buildings" is going to attract the attention of shub internet no matter how many bogus queries you put before or after it. Most filtering schemes are based on content -- they don't care to do statistical analysis.

      The point of bogus queries is to avoid tracking based on behavior, which is of course a matter of concern in this context. It is assumed that your ip address is already hidden.

    13. Re:Confuse it? How? by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Informative

      The point of bogus queries is to avoid tracking based on behavior, which is of course a matter of concern in this context. It is assumed that your ip address is already hidden.

      First, "tracking based on behavior" -- What exactly constitutes behavior? A string of a thousand randomly generated queries, popular or not, mixed in with several queries on how to build bombs is going to be flagged. It isn't generating any real extra work for them to deduce who you are by traffic analysis, because packet sizes, times sent/received, and other data specific to the request is going to correlate with a specific time and place, which means a specific person (in all likelihood).

      As to the IP address being "hidden" -- I'm not even sure where to start. Packet-based switching networks (ie. TCP/IP) require a source and destination IP. The ISP knows your IP address. It's often required by law to log all connections to/from each; at the very least the header data, but with the crashing costs of storage, keeping the content as well is a trivial matter. There's no "hiding" your IP address.

      All methods of connecting via encrypted tunnels into a "proxy cloud" that I have seen are still vulnerable to basic traffic analysis: As long as you have packet logs for the end-point and source, traffic analysis is a trivial computational task. Translation: I can have confidence that a given computer sent a given query at a given time; Decryption of the data at any point within the cloud or at the source isn't needed -- as long as I have the server logs and a corresponding packet log of the target computer, you're toast.

      Steganographic techniques would make the results of such an analysis difficult or impossible if properly implimented, but depend on the cloud architecture reaching critical mass, sending a constant flow of random data between each node, and then rate-limiting. These constrictions mean that the computational resources used to create said security are much, much higher than the current model. This is why they haven't been adopted -- simply put, nobody wants to wait several seconds to a minute for a single webpage to load, and the owners of said cloud don't want to waste bandwidth to manage what they believe is a low-risk attack vector.

      Sadly, it's exactly this kind of thinking that may very well get someone killed over there.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    14. Re:Confuse it? How? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      "girlintraining" the point is to have some nice, boring background 'chatter' looking up random 'safe' terms.
      Like the NSA, China would pick up on some terms mostly to do with tanks and people in the late 1980-90's ect.
      Been stuck on some ip with junk packets moving around after day might trip something to..

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    15. Re:Confuse it? How? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      girlintraining, welcome to the world of Tor if your in China or the NSA.
      When you are the network, you can trace back.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    16. Re:Confuse it? How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not how it works. You need to get a seemingly harmless algorithm to mask low-risk attack vectors. Hiding data works because it's so a novel approach to the distribution. I don't know what to say. Just that in all contexts that could be construed as I just want to contemplate the possibility of copulating over your slightly contorted overweight body. The very proposition of the single webpage idea sounds lacking in rigour.

    17. Re:Confuse it? How? by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Googling "how do I blow up government buildings" is going to attract the attention of shub internet no matter how many bogus queries you put before or after it.

      If anyone is wondering the answer to that question but doesn't want to attract the attention of the "shub" internet, I've got the answer right here. There is usually somewhere on the building a small thermal exhaust port approximately 2 meters wide. A direct hit with a proton torpedo should cause a chain reaction that will destroy it. I should caution you that ONLY a direct hit will cause a chain reaction.

    18. Re:Confuse it? How? by PReDiToR · · Score: 1

      Could I suggest Scroogle's SSL with the POST method?

      Breaks my heart to see everyone here talking about Google, but maybe that's because I'm on UK's Virgin (likely to be Phorm infested at any time makes you paranoid).

      --

      Do not meddle in the affairs of geeks for they are subtle and quick to anger
    19. Re:Confuse it? How? by mikael · · Score: 1

      You need to camouflage the message so that it becomes entirely innocent:

      How do I blow up a thousand party balloons for a party being held in a couple of Government buildings?

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    20. Re:Confuse it? How? by base3 · · Score: 1

      Nice that it keeps search terms out of ISP and webserver logs, but how do I know I can trust the people behind Scroogle. Seems a collection of IP addresses and search terms from people with "something to hide" could be quite valuable.

      --
      One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
    21. Re:Confuse it? How? by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      HOW come you got ABOve post confUsed wiTh roT13? tHat was not hIS intention at all! :/

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  5. Re:NOT Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't claim to be FOSS. All free software doesn't have to be FOSS.

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Re:NOT Free Software by BitterOak · · Score: 2, Informative

    This isn't free software. There is no source available anywhere.

    There's a difference between free software and open source software.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  8. do'h by pbjones · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and no chinese read /. so the secret is safe.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
    1. Re:do'h by euyis · · Score: 1

      hello i'm chinese and i think you should know it.

    2. Re:do'h by Toonol · · Score: 1

      But are you really posting, or is this a random obfuscatory computer-generated posting in order to hide your true posting pattern?

    3. Re:do'h by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not any more!

      - A Chinese slashdotter

  9. Re:NOT Free Software by Lyrael · · Score: 1

    Free as in beer.

  10. comspiracy by gmermnstinsmermwords · · Score: 2, Funny

    Or so David Tian would like you to believe, but did any of us think that he may be using his software as a ploy to deploy real Malware and take down the Chinese space program, from the inside!! If you listen you can hear the muah ha ha echo after reading the blip.

  11. wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chinese Senseless-Beating Resembles Malware, But Is

  12. Re:NOT Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't free software. There is no source available anywhere.

    Yes please to release code for study, much interest in such topic have we.

  13. What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Seriously, wtf is this Western obsession with the Falun Gong? On one hand, you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion, much less crazy cults like Scientology or Raëlism. On the other hand, you have those same exact people coming to the defense of Falun Gong! Everyone knows they're nuts, right? To call them the Mormons of China would be too mild, they're more like the Branch Davidians. So, to sum up, we have hardcore athiests getting really offended that an officially atheist government (the best kind!) is cracking down on religion. Strange days, eh?

    My own personal explanation for this bizarre behavior is that Westerners actually don't know anything about Falun Gong, and don't care to learn. They are comfortable with the "narrative" that FG=good, China=bad. And as recent events have shown, narratives are more important and cherished than the actual facts on the ground. People get *angry* when their comfortable narratives are revealed to be inaccurate.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is violence acceptable? If FG practitioner ends up killing themselves or lose their jobs, that's their own problem. But since when is violence against them a good thing?
      Do the hypocrites you speak of want the Scientologists to die some horrible deaths?
      I'm tempted to say you have been brai*cough* by the things you've read. I personally don't care about religions. But we have a human rights crisis here. Or maybe I should say that's how it's always been in China.

    2. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      On one hand, you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion, much less crazy cults like Scientology or Raelism.

      "Western media" is hardly homogenous.

    3. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by RobVB · · Score: 1

      The same goes for "the West".

      --
      I'd rather you rationally disagree than irrationally agree.
    4. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by BountyX · · Score: 1

      seriously? atheist media? by media I assume primarily television? give me a break. the only atheist media I know is /. (or maybe the entire internet).

      --
      Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
    5. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      On one hand, you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion

      The attacks on religion carried out tend to be a little less brutal than harvesting religious people for organs. Nobody cares if Falun Gong is criticized.

      an officially atheist government (the best kind!)

      Officially atheist governments have tended to be every bit as brutal as theocratic dictatorships. Secular government is far more desirable. Religious beliefs should be irrelevant to government since they cannot issue a decree that affects the existence or otherwise of any god. Believing something without evidence is not valid grounds for criminal sanctions.

    6. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Seriously, wtf is this Western obsession with the Falun Gong?

      About fifteen or twenty years ago, some US newspaper columnists were comparing them (somewhat favorably) to the "Society of Righteous and Harmonious Fists". I'm not sure whether this comparison was original, or derived from CCP communiques. In the spirit of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", FG became somewhat celebrated.

    7. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, wtf is this Western obsession with the Falun Gong? On one hand, you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion, much less crazy cults like Scientology or Raëlism. On the other hand, you have those same exact people coming to the defense of Falun Gong! Everyone knows they're nuts, right?

      The enemies of my enemies are my friends.

      Whatever it is, if it opposes China, then it has to be on the side of the Western countries.

    8. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion

      As an atheist, I would really have liked to get the memo that we are now in charge of the Western media. That could have been quite handy for my career.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    9. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Falun Gong is just as stupid as Christianity. But I'd gladly fight to protect people's right to practice either. I don't give a royal flying fuck whether Falun Gong are the 'Mormons of China', when I'd stand up for the Mormons of the U.S.

      You don't criminalize beliefs. If you think they're wrong TALK TO THEM. That's what adults and civilized countries learn.

    10. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Religious beliefs should be irrelevant to government since they cannot issue a decree that affects the existence or otherwise of any god.

      Having just re-read I, Claudius and Claudius the God, I couldn't help but chuckle a bit at this. I'm sure the Roman Senate could have benefited immensely from your sagacity.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    11. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by indiechild · · Score: 1

      Religion in China is allowed as long as it's "approved" by the dictatorship.

      Falun Gong = Branch Davidians? That's a rich one. So the FG are stockpiling small arms, explosives and .50 caliber machineguns, and it's an anti-China conspiracy that the Western media and public ignores... right.

      You can delude yourself all you want, but the fact of the matter is, in Western countries you have a whole lot more freedom than you do in China. Oh, and you don't fucking get tortured and executed for your religious beliefs.

    12. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by mikechant · · Score: 1

      On one hand, you have fundamentalist athiests in charge of Western media who take every opportunity to attack and discredit any religion,

      You clearly live on a different planet to me. On my planet the mainstream media spend a lot of time creeping around all the 'respectable' religions, making sure they never offend them in any way. When any 'moral' issue is debated religious 'leaders', often self-appointed, are asked respectfully for their opinions while secular representatives are ignored or marginalized.
      In the UK you even get extra parliamentary representation if you're in the Church of England - once via your MP and again via your bishop in the house of lords.

    13. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by lordmetroid · · Score: 1

      When people start get persecuted, incarcerated, tortured and killed by the government thugs for following a religion how heinous that religion may be, Ias a human will stand up for the persecuted people. No matter what!

    14. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by I)_MaLaClYpSe_(I · · Score: 1
      I did practice Falung Gong for half a year, and although I no longer believe in it, I still stand up to defend the cultivation practice any time. Their one and only law is that of Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance. And every falun gong practitioner I ever met tried to follow these "rules" as best as he could. Thus meaning that Falun Gong indeed is good. And the goverment is prosecuting them, putting them in labour camps and torturing them to death for no other reason than them trying to be compassionate, thruthful and tolerant! This makes China==bad. So, yes, FG=good, China=bad. Falun Dafa hao.

      If your first priority is to be truthful and you are a follower but the government tries to get you to deny your believes, you have a problem. And this usually means most severe torture without the practitioner betraying his believes but instead upholding the ideals of Truthfulness, Compassion and Tolerance, even against those who turture them. Now tell me that this is not as good as one can be!

    15. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as a "fundamentalist atheist", because atheism has no fundamental beliefs.

      If you want to get pedantic, there's really no such thing as a "fundamentalist" anything-other-than-Christian. Fundamentalism was founded based on a series of books called The Fundamentals.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals

    16. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by jmrives · · Score: 1

      In so much as Falun Gong promotes the supernatural, I am opposed to it. Just as I think all claims of the supernatural should be challenged. Do I support violence and imprisonment as a means of challenge? No.

    17. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Words can change. Get over it.

    18. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by mcornelius · · Score: 1

      ... stockpiling small arms, explosives and .50 caliber machineguns...

      Umm.... Do a little research. There were no machine guns there. That was an unfounded allegation, for which they found no evidence. The Branch Davidians were and are a cult, but that's not illegal. So is Falun Gong, but in China it's illegal and that's bullshit.

      Some Branch Davidians after the siege at Waco, against whom there were no allegations of wrongdoing were detained involuntarily for years afterwards as "material witnesses." (At least one was a British citizen who was not tried and only released in 2007 when he was deported.) The only forensic evidence that could be used to determine who started shooting first was conveniently lost by ATF. The ATF and the FBI illegally used military helicopters claiming (falsely and with no substantiation) that drugs were being made there.

    19. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by mcornelius · · Score: 1

      Google "define:fundamental". Here's the first result:

      fundamental cardinal; serving as an essential component

      Hijacking a word to mean something only because of a way it was used in a title of a shitty book and saying it can't have meaning other than that, is lying. But, if you want to be pedantic, we talk about Fundamentalists and fundamentalists. Fundamentally, atheism has one fundamental belief: "there is no god." If you remove that fundamental belief, it's not atheism.

    20. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      I am as opposed to the Chinese government's crackdown on Falun Gong as I would be to a US government crackdown on Mormonism. The active members of Falun Gong may be weirdos, their beliefs may be weird, but there is no evidence that they are a threat to anyone (as opposed to, say, the Branch Davidians, who were preparing to go to war with the United States and had a stockpile of guns and ammunition, including several .50 caliber guns).

      This next sentence is intended to be an insult: you sound like a shill for the Chinese government. The Chinese government is known to send such people abroad to keep up appearances.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    21. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      The Branch Davidians' use of .50 caliber guns is a matter of controversy on the official record of the incident. The matter of them having stockpiled such weapons is not really disputed, and they had also stockpiled ammunition for those weapons.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    22. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by mcornelius · · Score: 1

      The previous post said ".50 cal machineguns." The only claims that they used .50 cal rifles (not even machine guns) are from gun control advocacy groups and the GAO, on the theory that they could have obtained them, not that there was any evidence that they had.

      The report by the ATF and the FBI said that there were 3 .50 cal rifle magazines and 4 .50 cal rifle magazine springs . If there is any .50 cal magazine-fed machine gun, there is one really stupid engineer. Magazines and springs do not make a machine gun and would be useless for a machine gun. Machine guns are generally belt-fed.

      The source of this information? That conservative bastion, PBS. (If you didn't pick up on it, I was being sarcastic.) You could also try reading the Wikipedia article about it, before making unsubstantiated claims.

      They did have a lot of weapons. So do a lot of people in Texas. (My brother just bought another gun in Texas.) Yes, they were a cult. And, so were many religions that today have hundreds of millions of followers. They also traded them. Weapons owned by civilians did not generally decrease in value during the Clinton administration. They were a good investment then and now.

      If you want to argue that they were horrible people and the government is a scapegoat and did nothing wrong there, fine, then do that. But don't support it by claims that are demonstrably false. (And generally, even when government does get blamed for something not their fault, it doesn't come close to making up for blame they don't get that no one knows about.)

    23. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Becuase disagreeing with religious nuts, and arguing with them is somehow similar to locking them up, beating them and kicking them out of the country?

    24. Re:What is the obsession with Falun Gong? by Mr.+Roadkill · · Score: 1

      Just to throw a little petrol on the bonfire, they're spammers too - or, at least, some of their followers are. I've been playing wack-a-mole with them at work for at least the last three years. Over that time they've been spamming addresses harvested from our internal staff directory (probably harvested by sympathisers on staff), inlcuding departmental contact addresses and roles like postmaster, and pissing off a reasonable number of my users in the process. They've used at least three different ADSL and wireless providers in that time - nastygrams to the providers' abuse addresses went unanswered. Forged sender addresses were the norm, mostly at free providers, although more recently falunhr.org managed to get blocked here because they were spamming the same recipient list from addresses in that domain and including links to that domain through what appeared to be bots. (and yes, I seriously considered whether it was likely to be a joe-job by the Chinese Government - since they were sending to *exactly* the same recipients they'd used for their other mailouts, I don't believe it was)

      So no, they don't get a lot of sympathy from me.

  14. Atheist media? by MushMouth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I agree that Falun Gong is a total wacky cult (and I have old friends where sadly involved with it), but maybe you should think with a little objectivity calling the media atheist. I mean the one thing that a US presidential candidate must do is prove their love to Jesus. Don't you think if the media were atheist this sort of thing would be questioned a bit more. The one thing that a major political candidate simply can not be is Atheist, polls have pretty much proven that we will get an islamic president before we get an atheist. Personally I find the rites of all christianity, and bible stories just as nutty as the Xenu crap. Think for a second if you first heard these stories when you were in your 20s.

    1. Re:Atheist media? by BountyX · · Score: 1

      I mean the one thing that a US presidential candidate must do is prove their love to Jesus

      Not just presidents, congressmen too. I personally think Obama is agnostic and his Christian faith is merely political.

      --
      Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
    2. Re:Atheist media? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1
      While I agree that Falun Gong is a total wacky cult (and I have old friends where sadly involved with it), but maybe you should think with a little objectivity calling the media atheist.
      Calling them collectively atheist is indeed objective. As opposed to what, reporters for the 700 Club? The heartwarming "conversion of the week" series on 60 Minutes?

      I mean the one thing that a US presidential candidate must do is prove their love to Jesus.
      Hey, we were talking about the media - how'd we switch gears to presidential elections all the sudden?

      Don't you think if the media were atheist this sort of thing would be questioned a bit more. The one thing that a major political candidate simply can not be is Atheist, polls have pretty much proven that we will get an islamic president before we get an atheist.
      Yes, that's democracy for you. Still, I don't follow how the presidency has anything to do with the media.

      Personally I find the rites of all christianity, and bible stories just as nutty as the Xenu crap.
      So, your issue is the media isn't atheist enough. Anyway, I remain baffled by the favorable coverage of Falun Gong. It is only the Western media who have this obsession. Other Asian media don't have it, and other countries' English-language media barely mention the F-G. And yet, they're some sort of symbol of freedom and resistance against oppression? I smell projection.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:Atheist media? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the amount of religiously unacceptable actions of congressmen like adultery you have to wonder if our representatives are insane like most of the world is (including the US population) or just atheists disguised as people having faith. Somehow atheism doesn't really equal adultery, "sin", or other unethical behaviour as people seem to imply.

    4. Re:Atheist media? by ZeRu · · Score: 1

      You know what, Cuba is so close and has an atheist for president. So you're free to go there if you feel oppressed as an atheist in the USA.

      --
      If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
    5. Re:Atheist media? by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      Somehow atheism doesn't really equal adultery, "sin", or other unethical behaviour as people seem to imply.

      No, I am pretty sure that self-repression and refusing to acknowledge your own physical and psychological well being lead to this sort of desperate, doublethinking behavior instead. In other words, closed minded religion often begets whatever sin said religion claims to oppose, relative to healthy individuals who do not stripe themselves over such matters.

      But isn't that the catholic MO? It's all good, so long as you confess and say the right number of Hail Mary's at the end of the day?

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  15. Props to UltraSurf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I rely on UltraSurf almost daily. Its light and effective, just the way I like it.

  16. Brillant by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Announcing that the software that could be used to bypass their filters is indistinguishable from malware will mean than soon China will be the country with less malware (ok, if you want, non-government sponsored malware) in the world. Not sure how much that will hit botnets, or the level of spam, but probably could be enough to make a difference.

    Also, that could be very bad news for malware/botnet/spambots programmers/controllers... at least, i hope so.

  17. Scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This program is just one big scam to get funds from some human right organization or what not.

    Living in China you will quickly learn a number of things:

    - All the information you want, including Falun Gong, Tibet, etc. can be found INSIDE China. The only issue is that you need to LOOK for it. Which may be in convenient, but no more than LOOKING for a solution to by pass the GFW.

    - A host of Chinese and foreign companies alike offer VPN's to the US. None of these are blocked by the GFW, even after years of operation. (This is different from free proxies who DO get blocked - but I can't really call that a disservice considering all the privacy issues related to using these proxies.)

    - If you looked at the GFW's functioning at all you know that actual blocking a website by blacklisting its IP is VERY RARE. In most cases they use DNS poisoning combined with sending out RST packets. The first is very simple to overcome, the second could easily be avoided if US providers would simply drop RST packets "at the border". Obviously there is simply no interest to do so.

  18. discredit != crackdown by ZmeiGorynych · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because some people, such as myself, are fully in favor of making fun of religions, but object to the 'cracking down' part. As insane as Falun Gong might be, they should be allowed to preach and practice whatever the hell they want as long as they don't resort to actual physical violence, just as the society should be free to do any counter-propaganda - but blanket censorship and putting a lot of practitioners in prison is crossing the line.

  19. 'English needs braces!' by John+Guilt · · Score: 1

    I've often thought that, but expecially just now, when I couldn't figure out from the title whether
    Chinese {Censor-Beating} Software...
    or
    {Chinese Censor}-Beating...
    were meant. Though one should take no joy in anyone's being beaten, I found myself somewhat warming to the concept of code that beat censors....

    ('Mental plan!')

    1. Re:'English needs braces!' by attributed+insanity · · Score: 1

      Um... neither of the two phrases there differ in the way I think you're trying to imply, though they differentiate between the software being Chinese and the censors being Chinese. You're being mislead by alternative meanings for the word "beating" (defeating versus physically injuring), and correspondingly thinking that the "censor" is a person rather than an anonymous collection of hardware/software.

      Personally, I'd have been tempted to write "Chinese-Censor-Beating Software", as that implies that the censor is Chinese, rather than the software.

  20. I wonder by Cornwallis · · Score: 0, Troll

    if the developer will be able to tweak the software to save us from the U.S. Government Overlords who want to want to cut access to the Internet in the event of an "emergency" as defined by President Nobama?

  21. Porn by Carra · · Score: 1

    I thought Ultrasurf was created to allow people to browse porn at work.

  22. Hypocrisy is Irritating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always find it irritating when I read these "China is so bad because they censor the internet" stories. To be clear I do think China is bad for censoring the internet but so are we (i.e. the US). We don't have a stated federal policy of censoring the internet but we have forced take downs of content, we want to let corporations force us into a tiered internet strategy, and we're constantly trying to protect our citizens from themselves. Nothing is more irritating that hypocrisy and maybe we should look at fixing our own attitude where we try to protect money and our citizens from themselves before we start pointing fingers at others who do the same sorts of things for different reasons. People should realize at some point that your motivations don't matter when you're acting in a similar way, both are wrong. Is China worse sure but come on we're foolish if we believe we're a last bastion of individual freedoms these days. We're just better than the country that wants to control all information...weee that's something to get excited about. I bet we're better than N. Korea on torturing people and protecting due process too, again how can I contain my pride?

    Btw, I'm torn because China does suck for censoring the internet =)

  23. Wolves in sheep's clothing by Shoten · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Steve Topletz and Jonathan Logan gave a fascinating talk at the BlackHat Briefings this past July, where among other things they discussed how one Chinese tactic in dealing with privacy groups is to set up their own organizations...a darker kind of astroturfing, if you will...that compete against legitimate privacy-focused groups. They also detailed their analysis of UltraSurf, which revealed some fairly horrifying things. For one, it's not just the code itself that historically has been trojan-esque in nature, but the behavior as well. Once they fired it up, it started probing a multitude of networks, all belonging to either Western governments, the financial sector, or the military. Also, it demonstrated that it was listening in within SSL sessions, as demonstrated by its behavior when browsing within SSL would return an error page (even a custom one, that wouldn't be of the normal size expected for a 404 response, for example). So, I'm not too likely to believe a guy just because he works for NASA; NASA is not an organization that was founded to provide bona fides for security researchers, so it really doesn't add any mantle of credibility for this topic.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  24. On that note... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    I'll be playing a fantasy game, or reading a novel, with priests and churches and angels and demons, and it hits me that 90% of America fervently believes stuff that seems cheesy in a video game.

    ...I'll line-camp for whichever religion is the first to grant me giant swords, the superhuman strength required to wield them, and laws-of-physics-defying agility!

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:On that note... by selven · · Score: 1

      Ok, but you lose the ability to climb up onto things - you can either climb stairs or jump but any higher and you're screwed. Also, your weapons pass right through people who are friendly to you, although if you pat them on the back out of friendliness it will, for some reason, work fine. You cannot run faster than 12 kilometers per hour under any circumstances. You can store multiple pens in your pocket, but only if they are of the same make (no mixing different companies or even different versions allowed). The same applies to tissues, fruit and anything else that's small. Your car will always be able to teleport to your location when you press the button, but it can't do that while you're inside it. DRM will be perfect - you cannot possibly copy any document such as a recipe or even have multiple people look at it. Banks will store things in some magical subspace where you can go anywhere and access them from your local branch, but you most certainly cannot send people through that system. People with infinite supplies of godlike weapons will sell them to you for exorbitant prices, and there are no antitrust regulators to help you. FIreballs which can kill giant robots of steel will be useless against a simple locked door. You will save the world, but only have an item which will be replaced in 2 weeks to show for it.

      For magic and swords, it may be worth it.

  25. Free as long as you don't break the law by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

    Here in the United States, you are also free to do what you want, as long as you do not break the law. We just happen to have a different set of laws, which are less restrictive with regard to what information you are allowed to access, but more restrictive with regard to which information you are allowed to share with others.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  26. more software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article mentions the Global Internet Freedom Consortium. It has several more censorship-beating programs at internetfreedom.org

  27. Censor-beating software MUST resemble malware by Random+Walk · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem is plausible deniability - if they search your computer and find the software, how do you explain its presence?

    There is really only one way to solve this problem: the software must credibly pass as malware. It must have at least some of the traits of malware, and it must be actively used as malware, otherwise it's not credible, and in sufficiently oppressive countries you will likely end in prison for just having it on your machine.

  28. Hold it, hold it... did you get that? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Did you see that little gem hidden in the description? The program is behaving like malware to fool the Great Firewall. Since the goal is bypassing the Great Firewall, does that mean that the Great Firewall is more lenient if it thinks the traffic that is hitting it is generated by malware?

    Just thinking...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Hold it, hold it... did you get that? by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

      Read the thread directly above yours.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  29. Falun Gang? by f0rk · · Score: 1

    Falun Gang ?! I will NOT RTFA because i want to believe it's about Mattias Fink and how China has uncovered some wierd and twisted Human Rights activity about Swedens arguably only mass-murderer in existence, and of course, how to circumvent The Great Firewall of China.

  30. In other news, China reported its 1000th clone... by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1

    ...of the supercomputer they were sold ostensibly to model the weather for the Beijing Olympics. According to officials, the clones have been particularly useful in defeating attempts to use obfuscation to bypass the Great Firewall...

    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"