EMC Co-Founder Commits Suicide

The Register is reporting that EMC co-founder Richard Egan has committed suicide. The article has an interesting look back at some of his accomplishments. "Egan had an amazing life, encompassing involvement in the Apollo space program, the US Marines, starting and building the most successful storage company on the planet, and becoming the US ambassador to Ireland. Finally, aged 73 and facing a lingering death, he ended the battle decisively and on his terms. He was never a shrinking violet."

Comments

"Committed Suicide?"

[coaxial]

"Suicide" makes it sound like he was depressed. Sounds like this guy wasn't. He decided to go out on his own terms. He chose euthanasia. If only we all had such bravery when facing such a long debilitating decline.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[BigDXLT]

Some jokes just don't work in text.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[CannonballHead]

define "bravery"

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Goldberg's Pants]

While I think Bill Maher is a misogynist dickhead, he does have one great quote on suicide.

It's our way of telling God "You can't fire me. I quit!"

The sad thing is this guy should NOT have had to go in a closet and blow his head off. Never ceases to amaze me how we euthanize animals on compassionate grounds, and yet we humans, we're expected to suffer.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[X0563511]

Most people fear death - a lot.

He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.

That, is bravery.

Death, is the one final unknown. Our species seems to be wired into fearing the unknown. Death, being one of the absolute unknowns, is also one of the absolute fears. The man was not afraid of this absolute.

That, is bravery.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[popeyethesailor]

Well, please read the article. He was suffering from Stage 4 lung cancer, diabetes and high BP. I'm no doctor, but that looks fairly terminal to me. Why the fuck should I hang around as a vegetable?

Suicide is devastating to those who care, yes; but in this case at least, there's no selfishness. He saw that he was beyond extended support; and decided to go. Committing suicide takes a phenomenal amount of courage, and/or some mental instability. In this case, it seems to be mostly the former. Rest in Peace.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[DigiShaman]

It could have also been desperation.

I don't fault the guy. I mean, if terminal lung cancer is as bad as it sounds, I might have pulled the trigger on my own terms too. Who in the hell want's to die an agonizing death when a bullet to the head seems like the cure in comparison?

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[TheGratefulNet]

we're 'expected to suffer' because relgion *still* dominates our legal system.

remove religion and there's zero issue with people killing themselves.

it really is that simple.

and yet its not. because people won't let go of explanations that let them sleep easy at night.

even ones we know are not really true.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[paazin]

It could have also been desperation.

I don't fault the guy. I mean, if terminal lung cancer is as bad as it sounds, I might have pulled the trigger on my own terms too. Who in the hell want's to die an agonizing death when a bullet to the head seems like the cure in comparison?

Assuming the terminal cancer was the reason for his suicide, which is a supposition to begin with. The fact that he was caught up in a tax haven and the IRS was on his back ... well, one could imagine it can be a little more nuanced and complicated.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Jafafa Hots]

Oh come on. The guy had lived his life, was facing pain... for what? He wasn't a teenager, he wasn't middle aged. Doesn't a person have the right to decide when they've had enough?

You want to know selfish is? Selfish is expecting a terminally ill aged person to endure suffering to slightly prolong an existence that they no longer feel is tolerable, all so that a complete fucking stranger on the internet doesn't have to deal with a moment facing the reality that ALL PEOPLE DIE, before said geek clicks on to the next story, about robot porn or some shit.

The guy lived his life, saw the end coming and chose not to suffer. The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Brian Gordon]

Never ceases to amaze me

Doesn't surprise me. Until very recently, only the wealthy could afford the food/rest/care to even survive any serious illness. The problem of what to do with old people when the medical care is too good is a recent problem and our society hasn't cast its collective conscience's vote yet on what attitude to adopt toward human euthanasia. Eventually we'll reach a mature, stable decision one way or the other.. but you can't rush it.

Also there are a lot of thorny ethical issues. For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm." Doctors can't even prescribe lethal injections when a court orders execution; prisons have to get those drugs 'semi-legally' without going through a real doctor. Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society. And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally...

Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[SanityInAnarchy]

That, or he fears pain more than death. Most people fear pain, a lot.

He, instead of fighting the pain and clinging as long as he could (and affording himself the possibility of a medical breakthrough or a medical miracle), like many of us would, simply gave up and took his ball home.

From a certain perspective, that is cowardice.

Death is a complete unknown. Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.

From a certain perspective, that is stupidity.

I don't think we can really judge one way or the other, though. At a certain point, it's a choice between being a burden to your family as you slowly drift into a coma and then death, or cutting off all medical treatment (and thus bills).

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[MadMartigan2001]

Oh ya, "go out on a morphine drip" does not screw with peoples heads. You've obviously not been witness to what happens to people when they waste away and die. Face it, you are ridiculing this guy because he has balls you'll never have. All you can do is call him selfish to make yourself feel better for not having the guts to face your own death with your eyes wide open. you'd rather go out on drugs, numb to the whole experience, all the time, whining about people who are much stronger than you. pathetic.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[plopez]

remove religion and there's zero issue with people killing themselves.
No, not really. It's usually the family and friends that suffer the most. I knew a guy with a 3 year old daughter that shot himself. That was some time ago, she's an adult now. I'm sure she still carried the scars with her.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

"May this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good?"

From Schopenhauer's "On Suicide":(Hollingdale's translation)

"Christianity carries in its innermost heart the truth that suffering(the Cross) is the true aim of life: that is why it repudiates suicide, which is opposed to this aim, while antiquity from a lower viewpoint approved of and indeed honoured it. This argument against suicide is however an ascetic one, and is therefore valid only from a far higher ethical standpoint than any which European moral philosophers have ever assumed. If we descend from this very high standpoint there no longer remains any tenable moral reason for damning suicide. It therefore seems that the extraordinary zeal in opposing it displayed by the clergy of monotheistic religions - a zeal which is not supported by the Bible or by any cogent reasons - must have some hidden reason behind it: may this not be that the voluntary surrender of life is an ill compliment to him who said that all things were very good? If so, it is another instance of the obligatory optimism of these religions, which denounces self-destruction so as not to be denounced by it."

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[MichaelSmith]

My father in law is currently dying from terminal cancer and I reckon anybody who has seen it happen would look for a fast way out. What I am seeing now is almost indescribably horrible. I don't blame this guy one bit.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[WaywardGeek]

Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Microlith]

our society hasn't cast its collective conscience's vote yet on what attitude to adopt toward human euthanasia.

Well, if you went by the philosophies under which the US was founded then it's no one's business but the person seeking death. The problem are the religious busybodies who feel the need to butt in and interfere with people's decisions for the sake of their personal moral gratification.

For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm."

Is not forcing someone to live in pain, with no dignity, not causing harm? Is it truly harm if the person is granted the relief they desire? Have you hurt anyone?

anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally...

Are they now? If there's no reasonable expectation of a cure for some terminal disease and the inevitable result is crippling disability, pain, and death, who are you to say someone who wishes to book early, preserving their dignity, is acting irrationally?

Could it not be argued that those willing to spend every last cent to stay alive, no matter how debilitating and painful life may become before death, are themselves acting irrationally?

On an unrelated note, the first quote of this paragraph was, before I previewed it, enclosed with the "blockbuster" tag. Please, anyone, tell me what I was thinking?

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because people left behind would never get screwed up seeing you die slowly and painfully, weezing (quite literally) your last in some hospital ward as you gradually lose control of your bodily functions. That would obviously be much less traumatic for them than putting your affairs in order, saying goodbye with dignity and making a (relatively) clean exit.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[rjh]

With respect to whether forcing someone to live in pain and without dignity is a violation of the Hippocratic Oath -- yes, it is. This is why so many doctors nowadays are taking continuing education classes in chronic pain management and death with dignity.

Under current ethical guidelines, a doctor is allowed to prescribe any amount of narcotic necessary to manage the pain of a terminal patient, even if that dose of narcotic will hasten the patient's death. (The law has not caught up with medical ethics, but it's in the process of doing so.)

If the only way to manage the pain of your terminal illness is to give you a dose that will hasten your death, the AMA says that if you ask for it I am allowed to ethically give it to you. The AMA also says that I should tell you that very powerful drugs are available to manage your pain, and to encourage you not to live in pain. I can't force you to take the Fentanyl patch, but I can make sure you know you have that option available to you and that no one will think less of you for it.

Pain management, dignity, hospice care, etc. -- these are all ways medicine in the US is trying to balance the Hippocratic Oath against the indignities of terminal care.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[adolf]

My grandfather died (ostensibly) from Parkinson's. My other grandfather died (also, ostensibly) from a stroke. I say "ostensibly" because neither of these things were capable of killing the men by themselves.

In the first case, the man's wits were always totally about him, but his communication and motor skills dropped to such a useless extent that he plainly felt he was a burden. He was very intelligent, and a quiet thinker: Someone you listened to when they talked, no matter how lengthy or succinct the conversation. My family kept him alive for years too long -- he was only going to get worse, not better.

In the latter case, the man's wits weren't always about him, but he was plainly aware that he was on his last legs and wouldn't be long in this world. He was an intelligent, outgoing, and very lucky reactionist who thrived on stress: Someone you listened to very intently, even if you thought they were wrong, because their thoughts were still very useful to absorb. My family kept him alive for years too long, as well -- he had more than one stroke in the nursing home, and had a long history of cardiac problems before then.

Both were accomplished (in terms of family reverence and fiscal good fortune). They lived good, honest lives, had their shit together, and were completely loved by those around them.

But, they lived too long. They were all used up.

Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment.

I hope your Grandpa-in-law does well with whatever comes.

(And for a disclaimer: No, death and suicide aren't always fair, and aren't always the fair means to an end. My own sister, whom I was also very close to, killed herself while she was still young and in rather good physical health about three years ago. Something about a hose, some duct tape, a 1996 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, a secluded garage, a bunch of cocaine, a lot of unhelpful friends, and an undiagnosed case of schizophrenia combined to make this happen. I wish I could've done more for her, and will probably regret that I hadn't for the rest of my own life.)

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Quothz]

For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm."

First off, the Hippocratic Oath does not say "do no harm". It does say that doctors should not do assisted suicides, perform abortions, or perform surgery. Luckily, doctors don't take it any more and haven't in my lifetime. I'm not sure why people think they do. Some take substitute oaths, like the Declaration of Geneva;* others take no oath.

immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous

"Immediately"? That's a topic that's been up for debate throughout all of recorded history. Which is why the Hippocratic Oath mentions it. Generally, it's been shot down by religious leaders in western cultures because suicide is a sin. It'd be awful nice if we could get past the argument that an invisible fairy will get mad at you and address it as two questions: Does a person own his or her own life, and if so, under what criteria is suicide appropriate? For example, I could see not allowing someone suicide due to schizophrenia because it interferes with rational decision-making. I could also see it a no-no for the parent of a minor child, under the assumption that his or her duty to the child supercedes any rights to opt outta life. But just screaming that it's wrong isn't gonna last in today's secular political climate.

* Which also does not say "do no harm", but does say "I will maintain the utmost respect for human life". On the flip side, the doctor also promises to never violate human rights - some would argue that the right to die at a place and time of one's own choosing is a human right.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[JWSmythe]

    You shouldn't have posted A/C. You're very much right.

    I saw my dad dying. It wasn't pretty. My last memories of him are in the hospital bed, which I'm sure wasn't the way he wanted to be seen going out. He was military also, but he wouldn't have chosen the gun to the head route. He fought to the end, in disbelief that he could be dying. Unfortunately, there was a burial, and now a gravestone to prove it. His mantra was "it's indigestion", when in reality it was heart attacks, which took their toll. He was smart, and he knew the truth, but sometimes we'll ignore the simple truth when it's bad enough.

    If he could have taken his last day on his terms (but not quite so messy), he may have taken that route. But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have, simply because he refused to believe it. At very least, he could have saved himself the last day of suffering.

    My step son was almost luckier. He died quickly in the comfort of our home by natural causes (a seizure). He had already told us, he had no recollection of anything that happened during his seizures, so he was completely unaware of what happened. His mother and I were the first to find him, and despite the obvious truth, I performed CPR until the paramedics arrived. He was already rigor, but I refused to believe it. I did tell the 911 operator "he's rigor-like". Not rigor mortis. I refused to believe the truth, even though I knew better. The paramedics were kind when they showed up, but there was nothing for them to do but talk us through it.

    Damn. I was having a good night. Now I'm stuck with the memories of what happened again. They never do go away, but sometimes they can be sidetracked with better memories of the people we loved.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Valdrax]

Actually, I wouldn't choose a bullet. I think jumping off Half Dome sounds a lot more fun. Or seeing exactly just how fast I can take those turns in a motorcycle on Skyline, and then push just a bit more. Go sky diving and simply don't pull the cord. How about taking an overdose of some very fun drug while enjoying the company of a well-paid lady friend? Free-climb some way-too-hard slope without a rope? Rent a Corvette, and crash it at 170Mph. See just how far you can swim into the ocean, or just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further. I think I'd prefer any of those to a slow painful death stretched over months or years. You only get to die once. Might as well die doing something you'd normally be to scared to try.

Personally, I'd rather not be the kind of jerk that leaves a huge mess for someone else to clean up when it's time to fold up my affairs, but YMMV.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[l00sr]

The only sad part is that our sick society is in such denial about the inevitability of death that he was forced to choose such a gruesome method rather than having the option of something more peaceful.

Being a man of quite some means, so to speak, it's pretty naive to think he couldn't have just hopped a plane to say, Oregon, and offed himself there neatly and legally. He blew his head off with a shotgun because that's the way he wanted to go out, clearly.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[catmistake]

How many people have you watched wither and die?

A few. They were helpless. Just like when they first arrived. There's a certain undeniable symmetry to it.

I refuse to accept your opinion on this matter, sorry.

Save your insincere apologies for your children.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Dhalka226]

The problem is that these all have varying degrees of potential failure. Jumping off Half Dome or skydiving and not pulling the chute? Pretty good chance you'll die, and quickly--but if you don't, there's also a high risk you live in agony for hours, probably destroyed so bodily that you couldn't even do anything to finish the job. And god help you if somebody saw it happen and called an ambulance that ended up saving your life. There was a story just a few days ago about an Australian quadraplegic getting a court to acknowledge his right to die--but of course nobody can help him, so he has to waste away by starvation.

Drowning? I don't know. I've heard it said that drowning is actually a pretty horrible way to die. A bullet isn't surefire either, of course, but a sufficiently high-caliber weapon in the proper location comes awfully close.

Either way, if somebody's going to commit suicide they should couple whatever action they choose with a Do Not Resuscitate order. Of course the best solution is for us as a society to get over this "ZOMG LIFE IS TOO SACRED TO HELP SOMEBODY DIE, HE'LL HAVE TO DO IT HIMSELF AND SUFFER IN AGONY!" thing and just provide ways of helping people end their lives.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[rastos1]

Most people fear death - a lot.

In fact, they fear long and helpless suffering that precedes it.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[ppanon]

Seems to me that insisting that someone who wants to die rather than suffer from an incurable terminal disease will instead have to live with pain for many months instead, just so that some nurse and doctors can get some moolah and "contribute to the economy" is incredibly ghoulish. If the guy wants to die to avoid dragging the inevitable out, let him. That money will be spent in other ways and still circulate in the economy; decreasing the national debt through inheritance taxes, and/or spent by the family. It will be better spent than keeping somebody alive and in pain against their will. the latter sounds an awful lot like torture to me.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Seumas]

Am I the only one who didn't understand a fucking word of the above poster's meaningless rambling platitudes? You sound like Mother Theresa. "Why help people? Just tell them to suffer in agony because it's beautiful."

I hope when you're confronted with that situation you can look at your pain-stricken loved one and tell them "toughen up you fucking pussy".

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[lysergic.acid]

So every terminal cancer patient who doesn't commit suicide isn't brave? By trying to survive they're "scrabbling away and clinging to anything they could?" Sounds like you're saying all the terminally ill who don't commit suicide are pathetic cowards. What about the ones who endure all the pain (physical and psychological) and some how beat the odds (it's happened many a times)?

People who commit suicide all have their own reasons. I think the important thing is to not judge them, regardless of what their circumstances happen to be, as we'll never know what they were going through and the reasoning behind their decision. It's their life. They should have the right to end it if they want. It's really no one else's business.

But let's not try so hard to glorify someone' death that we start denigrating those with the will to live on. This guy obviously lead a very full life filled with many great & admirable accomplishments. Let's just leave it at that. His suicide was just the final period at the end of a fascinating life story. Our attention should be on everything that came before it.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[binary paladin]

Religion?

Or a medical industry the brings in the lion's share of its profits from the last years of people's lives.

Short of being paralyzed you can kill yourself anyway. The's the cool part about killing yourself--even if it's illegal it's not like they can prosecute you for it.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[binary paladin]

Suicide doesn't take courage by default. Often times it's a chicken shit's way out. However, in the case of being old and terminal, it's common place in a lot of older cultures to simply "leave the tribe" so you're not a burden anymore. In industrialized nations have become oddly life obsessed to the point that it defies reality. The old and sick can but put out and while it's perfectly acceptable to lock people in a maximum security penitentiary where they're alone 23 hours a day, killing them is "cruel and unusual."

Of course, there's less money in death than in prolonging the inevitable. Plus, people in pain are the most desperate sort of suckers out there.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Falconhell]

"Death is as natural as life itself is. It is an eventuality. One can either go out on one's own terms, or one can sap the Estate for all that its worth as the State sucks it all in to maintain "healthfulness" at everyone's (including the patient) detriment."

Great post, you summed that up well.

Whatever you do don't blame yourself for someone else's suicide.

I have been haunted by the suicide of my closest friend for 25 years. Same method too. It is always easy to see the signs after the fact, but virtually impossible in some cases beforehand.

Another of my closest friends died of breast cancer (Metastisised) at 32 a few years ago. When she knew the end was near she went out and partied real hard, and died 2 days later. At least she went out how she lived with great spirit-and the best illegal drugs!

  If she had stayed in Hospital she could have probably lived for another month at most, and we her friends would have had to watch her die slowly and painfully. Her bravery in not allowing her friends to suffer with her for a month was incredibly moving.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[JWSmythe]

    To each his own, right?

    I agree, the blood splatter mess isn't exactly the legacy I'd want to leave behind. I've spent my life making sure I'm well preserved, between bad food with lots of preservatives, and generally pickling myself with alcohol. Archeologists in 1000 years will dig up my body, and I'll look as fresh as when they planted me, even without embalming. I'll leave a lovely, yet well worn corpse. :) My friends will say "yes, he lived his life to the fullest, and was happy." Well hell, who knows what they'll really say. There may only be one person show up to say "finally that bastard is gone."

    But hey, he was picking his exit, and that's how he wanted it. I hope he laid down plenty of plastic so he didn't leave a mess for the family and friends to clean up. When it all comes down to it, we all pick our way out. Some people go the "legal" and "moral" way, and die slowly and painfully in hospice. Some take a more express method. As with life, to each his own.

    I guess it's better than slitting your wrists or hanging yourself in a hotel, for housekeeping to find sometime the next day (or days later).

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[adolf]

Your corvette crash - what happens if you just end up a paralyzed vegetable? Oops!

I've put some thought into this. I've determined that it's not so hard to die in a single-car accident. The trick is using a car which is early enough to have few safety measures and good engine output, while being late enough to be light-weight. A late ('78-81) second-generation Camaro SS or Firebird Trans-Am fits the bill pretty well: No crumple zones, no electronics to speak of to overrule your foot, plenty of power, lots of speed, zero safety features except for the optional seatbelt, and hard, metal dashboard components.

Add that to a race with death on any road you can come up with, so long as it has either a sheer cliff on one side, or the occasional overhead bridge, and you're golden. Just make sure the driveline, tires and suspension are in good shape beforehand, lest you accidentally live due to mechanical failure.

(An '09 Civic, Camry, or Golf probably would not work so well, even if it is faster.)

Meanwhile...

Drowning, of course, sucks.

Drugs? Shoot. Lots of good folks die from drugs. Done right, one doesn't feel a thing. Research is important.

Sky diving without a chute? Hard to pull off. Too much documentation. The posthumous Inquisition would be ugly for the accessories. But it is quick, sure, and painless.

Kevorkian approach, though? IIRC, those folks took awhile to die, and didn't appear to particularly be enjoying themselves. Fuck that - if it's time to go, go out with something fun. That sounds ugly, to me.

YMMV.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[ppanon]

Those who take their own life aren't brave... that's all I'm saying. They should be held to the same standard as someone who runs a race, doesn't like how its going, and quits. Sure, personal choice. But the runner that makes it to the end, even if they are dead last, endears far greater respect.

So you would dismiss the effort of the runner who tears an Achilles tendon for not crawling on bloody hands and knees hundreds of meters to the finish line? Whether they finished or not, they would have more of my respect than you are likely to garner.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Builder]

As an active skydiver, I'm asking you nicely to pick another one of those choices. It's no fun for anyone standing around the DZ on a nice sunny day when selfish fuck decides to use our sport as his means to kill himself. It's no fun having to watch the paramedics try to save their life when you can see in their eyes they're dead. It's no fun to see the faces of the children who just came to see mummy get strapped to some man and go tandem when they realise that shit on their shoes used to be a living person.

So do us all a favour, and fuck off.

I'll leave the other ideas to the active climbers, motorcyclists and others who you'd like to make shit for.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[mjwx]

Most people fear death - a lot.

He, instead of scrabbling away and clinging to anything he could (and just making it longer) like many of us would, stood tall, squared his shoulders, and walked into it's maw.

This really is a western attitude. Take a look at Japan, where suicide is considered an honourable death, even preferred over being a living failure. Buddhist cultures like Thailand or Cambodia, the reincarnation religions combined with life being cheap, easy for them to justify what we westerns consider absolutely stupid behaviour (Driving is the first thing that comes to mind) with "it OK, I come back, next life". Of course they don't want to die, but there isn't the absolute fear of it that we have in the western world.

The church is the biggest reason we have laws against suicide. Taking your own life is the only real power we have, to live or to die and the bible says that only God has the right to decide who lives and who dies thus suicide is a sin. We are trained to despise death from day one, we've built legal systems around this making it "wrong" to take your own life and even worse to spare someone pain by assisting suicide (Euthanasia). So by this logic, suicide is not considered bravery, on the contrary it is selfishness and I suppose that it is to an extent but it is the one bit of selfishness we should be entitled to.

I applaud this person for choosing when he was to die. I too would rather end it quickly then become an inconvenience on others with a terminal illness, plus I'd get to organise a really big party before I go (a bit morbid yes, but so is a funeral). Also look up Einstein's death he too also chose to go with a bit of grace by refusing life exending surgery. quoting Einstein,

"I want to go when I want. It is tasteless to prolong life artificially. I have done my share, it is time to go. I will do it elegantly."

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Idiomatick]

Death isn't an unknown it just isn't that exciting.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really think a guy facing imminent death gives a rat's ass about the IRS? Imagine having absolutely nothing to look forward to. Your future is a brick wall. You can't see past it because there is nothing past it. Faced with a slow, agonizing journey to oblivion or a momentarily painful express ride, which would you choose? Well, he opted for the latter, and I'd be willing to bet he wasn't thinking about the IRS when he did it. Well, maybe a quick "heh, fuck them," but that's it.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[YeeHaW_Jelte]

Speaking from a country that has had legal euthanasia for quite some years already:

"For like 25 centuries doctors have been swearing the Hippocratic oath, which explicitly states "do no harm.""

Inappropriately lengthening peoples lives and pain in the case of a severe illness can be construed to be doing harm. Doctors are used to keeping people alive and using this as a metric for their effectiveness. Maybe there should be a bigger focus on quality of life and less on plainly being alive.
Also, keeping someone alive because of your own personal (religious) beliefs is morally objectionable if the patient does not share these beliefs.
I'll leave to the readers imagination what I think of the moral implications of the problems in applying the death penalty as you describe it.

"Also there's the problem of whether the elderly will feel pressured to go to euthanasia (as seen in Soylent Green and Deus Ex) to spare the financial burden on their kids or society."

First, get a decent healthcare system to spread the costs. It seems every discussion on slashdot heads in the direction of the US healthcare system lately, maybe there's change in the air.
Secondly, financial considerations are also weighed by medical staff in the decision to use a certain treatment to keep someone alive or not. This is one of the most serious dilemma's we'll face in the decades coming: how much is a life worth or how much is another year of living worth. This stems directly from the invention of new and costly medical treatments and this issue will be important, regardless of legalizing euthanasia or not.

"And there's the catch-22 issue of sound mind: euthanasia candidates must be making a rational decision, but anyone petitioning for euthanasia is acting irrationally..."

I see no paradox here except in your mind: why is petitioning for euthanasia irrational?

"Obviously there should be a better way than taking a gun into a closet, but immediately jumping into legalizing euthanasia would be inappropriate and dangerous."

I don't think anyone is suggesting this. Do you? I think most people in favor of legalizing euthanasia have a very sound idea of what checks and balances should be in place to prevent misuse. I know there are many safeguards in place in the dutch system for legal euthanasia and I think the practice is widely supported and considered far superior to blasting ones brains out in desperation.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Kadin2048]

Except what you seem to ignore is that all the runners in this particular race, every single goddamn one of us, is going to make it to the end. The same end. There's no different finish line for people who get there by suicide and people who don't conk out until someone shuts off their ventilator and pulls their breathing tube out. Either way, you're dead. What's beyond that is a point of debate, but we're all crossing the same finish line.

So it's just a matter of picking the route you want to run. You, apparently, seem to think that the slow-death route is the more scenic one; quite a few people believe the exact opposite -- that since we're all going to the same place anyway, no need to slog through a briar patch just to prove that it can be done. Quite a bit easier, especially if you have a pretty good idea of what going through the briar patch is going to involve, to just go around.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[GradiusCVK]

Rather than face the pain he knows, clinging to another few years, days, hours with loved ones, he instead walked headfirst into what could very well be worse pain and debilitation (think any religion's hell), yet clearly in a desire to avoid the pain and debilitation that he knew.

That's clear to you? I'm amazed at your total knowledge of the subject. Let me add a few additional considerations (of which you are obviously aware) for the rest of the readers without your gift.

My aunt died of breast cancer about ten years ago - I was in middle school at the time, and understandably ignorant of most aspects of the real world. She had been diagnosed maybe 7 or 8 years before that. The woman was incredible - driven, successful, brilliant, beautiful, and one of the most caring and compassionate people I've ever known.

Her family was wealthy, and with her own success and that of my uncle (got out of a high level position in AT&T at exactly the right time), she had the means to fight the disease better than most... and fight she did. She consulted with doctors all over the world, tried the most advanced treatments available, stuck strictly to regimens that many people give up on because of the pain, and never complained, cried, or once gave us reason to pity her beyond our knowledge of her disease (at least, not that I, my parents, or my grandparents ever witnessed... my uncle no doubt has a much different perspective on this).

She was incredibly strong - until the bitter end, she struggled to hide the horrors of the disease from everyone. Until the very end of her struggle, I was mostly unaware of any ill effects - she wore stylish hats to hide her hair loss, covered her pale complexion with make up, wore heavier clothes add bulk to her wasting body... everything possible just to make us happy and comfortable around her, despite the dizziness, nausea, pain, fear, despair, and everything else she was hiding behind her smile. She had a young daughter that she didn't want to traumatize, and friends and family who loved her dearly. She felt she had to present an optimistic, healthy, happy appearance to us so we wouldn't mourn her while she still fought her battle.

Why did she fight? I have no idea. Maybe she was afraid of death (somehow I doubt this was high on my aunt's list of priorities). Maybe she genuinely thought she might live to help raise her daughter (she was about 13 when she died - my aunt succeeded in seeing her grow to be a smart, beautiful young woman). Maybe there were financial (i.e. insurance, inheritance, whatever) reasons. Maybe she felt suicide would be too traumatic for us to deal with. Maybe she was afraid of whatever afterlife may await those who commit suicide (she was a good Catholic). Maybe she didn't want to let random luck and an evil disease decide her fate for her without at least fighting with all she had. Maybe it was all of these, or something else, or nothing at all. The point is, she chose to fight, and we supported her in that decision... to the degree she allowed anyone to support her, of course.

I still look up to her to this day... her dignity and strength in dealing with the disease, and the beauty of the life she led. I think she made her decision mostly out of love for her family, and I will never criticize her decision to cling to life, not just because I don't know all the factors that went into the decision process, but because I'm not qualified to judge those factors or the weights she assigned to them. I will add a few observations, however.

Having seen her deterioration in the last year of her life, and the impact it had on my family, I can say that her slow, agonizing death certainly WAS a traumatic experience for us, despite her heroic efforts to hide it. My uncle was a broken man (he's not nearly so strong as my aunt was) for the last few years, and the pain has never subsided (though he's gotten better at hiding it). The effect on the family might have been different had she chosen a different path, but

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Keen Anthony]

If you do decide to end it all, I hope you would have the courtesy of doing so in a manner that doesn't harm your bystanders. Every now and again, I get news about some jackass who decided he wanted to kill himself, and then went out onto the highway to slam his car into another vehicle or walk out in front of traffic or a train. I remember once witnessing the moments after a suicide on an opposing Metra Rail track. We had to sit there for 40 minutes as people came to spray the area. The passengers on the other train had to have been sitting there even longer. All I could think was, that guy was a real dick.

I'm not normally judgmental about suicide. But one shouldn't traumatize people or potentially injure or even kill bystanders in the process. That's just selfish.

When I finally do the deed myself, I wish to be in my nice comfy chair with a favorite drink, a favorite song playing, and maybe my TV playing some video that means a lot to me. I don't have time for displays of machismo, and I'm not rude enough to leave a bloody mess for someone to clean up after.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Nefarious Wheel]

"THERE IS NO JUSTICE," said Death, "THERE IS ONLY ME." -- Terry Pratchett

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[bkr1_2k]

Anyone concerned about leaving anything to his family would most certainly be concerned about the IRS. I have no idea what he was involved in but if it's large enough it's very easy to see why it could affect his decision. Better to check out and have the debt "erased". The IRS doesn't always do that, but sometimes they do. Furthermore, when you consider the cost involved in a terminal disease like lung cancer, it just adds more weight to the whole thing.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Talisman]

"See...just how far you can free-dive, and then push a bit further."

I freedive quite regularly, and have experienced two shallow water blackouts. I can tell you, assuming you have done proper breathe-ups to rid your system of CO2 before the dive, it would be an extremely peaceful way to go. Both times I blacked out, I wasn't even aware of what happened until it was showed to me on film. One second I'm ascending, the next, out cold. No pain, no discomfort, no fear.

If I ever off myself, that is probably how I'll do it.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Attila Dimedici]

My father also died of cancer. He fought it for close to five years. My father-in-law also died of cancer. I hope I have the strength to face death as bravely as both of them. Like them I won't quit on the people around me who love me. I will fight to the end, not because I fear death, but to remain with my loved ones as long as they need me to/I am able to.
Less than a week before my father's death, he took off work early to go to a doctor's appointment with my Mom. On the way, the car got a flat tire which he changed. At the appointment, the doctor said that the tumor had started growing again and suggested stopping Chemo for a month or two and then deciding what to do. That was a Friday. That Sunday the church I grew up in had a service for my father where many people who had known him came and expressed their love and support for him and my family. That afternoon, he discussed with my brother (an engineer) how to deal with a problem with the equipment at my Dad's work then laid down in his bed for a nap. He never got out of that bed (except with help to go to the bathroom). The following Thursday he talked on the phone with another brother who lived out of state. His last words were "It's OK."
Life is a series of tests, suicide is cheating on the final exam.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[WaywardGeek]

Actually, this is my favourite of my various half-assed suggestions. At one particularly hard point in my past (after a divorce) I was doing many foolish things, not particularly caring if I died. Now, 50 feet of depth isn't much for an experienced free-diver, but I'm only comfortable down to about 20'. The one time I dived down to 50', I looked up and thought "Well, this is it." But, it wasn't. However, if it had been, I was prepared for it - not upset or scared... actually more like thrilled. I was in Hawaii, and right at the bottom, a huge eel swam past me, which I thought was way cool. If I'd tried 60', I doubt I'd have made it back. Anyway, with free-diving, hopefully the current takes away your body, and sea creatures get you, and no one is left cleaning up a bloody mess.

A similar experience was swimming out into seriously rough surf. I haven't died yet, so I can't say what it would be like, but battling surf is a bit like being in a fight. Adrenaline pumps you up, and you swim until you've got nothing left. I don't think death in a fight is all that bad of a way to go... you keep you're mind on the fight, instead of focusing on life slipping away. Once, a guy got me in a head lock and cut off circulation to my head. I didn't feel bad, I just kept struggling until I passed out. That would be an ok way to go.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[RagingFuryBlack]

As an active firefighter in a busy area, I ask too that you please off yourself in a way that doesn't require me to get out of bed at 0-dark-thirty hours, risk myself in an emergency response, and then proceed to cut your dead or dying ass out of a mangled car, or wash your brains off of an interstate highway. I also don't envy the cop who has to tell your next of kin how your stupid ass decided (s)he was being an idiot and killed some guy's innocent kid with your rocket of a motorcycle or corvette.
Thanks from your local public servant!

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Lord Ender]

So every terminal cancer patient who doesn't commit suicide isn't brave?

You might want to review your logic textbook from college. From "p -> q", it does not follow that "~p -> ~q".

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[xouumalperxe]

Yeah, and think of all the linens his family will have to replace now.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[Brian Gordon]

The hippocratic oath includes "to abstain from doing harm"

I didn't know that they didn't take it anymore, thanks

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[binary paladin]

And if you think religion has more power over the minds of people in modern industrialized nations than the corporate economy, you're deluding yourself. I'm certainly not saying religion has nothing to do with it, but as I said in another post, look at our "justice" system:

It's cruel and unusual to kill someone but locking them up in a little room alone 23-hours a day in a maximum security penitentiary is "civilized"? Keep in mind, historically the "religious" were the ones most in favor of killing these guys. And what did they lose out to? The fact that there's more money to be made in keeping them alive in a private prison than there is to just get it over with.

So much for those thousands of years of impact. And even if it's not just the money interests, something changed in the population in a very rapid manner to go from "kill the criminals and let God deal with them" to "they have to live!" We've been killing "the guilty" for about as long as religion's been around.

I see I was flagged as a troll too. I keep forgetting that on Slashdot I have to concede that religion is the root of ever evil perpetrated on the mind of man and any thinking that goes against that is gonna get modded down. Oh well. I just get sick to deal of religion being the scapegoat for everything around here.

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[retchdog]

I think the norm for good life insurance policies is that they cover suicide after an initial ~2-year period. This is apparently enough to remove most of the desperate schemers.

I only looked at so-called "cooperatives", as opposed to for-profit companies.

(Apropos of nothing: I still don't see the point of getting any life insurance as opposed to just investing, unless you do actually plan to kill yourself in 2 years.)

Re:"Committed Suicide?"

[brkello]

Then sky dive, land, and then take a bunch of pills or a lethal injection. Don't traumatize people and make a huge mess. You are also damaging the sport you supposedly love by putting a death on record for a sky diving company. You are completely thinking about yourself. GP is thinking of others. Do you not understand the definition of selfish? Look it up and go feel stupid for awhile.

The EASY way out!

[ZackSchil]

What a coward! He should have faced his imminent slow and painful death like a man: by watching his dignity slowly fade away as he soils his bed and sobs uncontrollably about a life ill spent.

Wait, his life wasn't ill spent, so he realized that everything I just typed is bullshit. Society's attitude towards suicide is fucked up.

Rest in peace.

Re:The EASY way out!

[X0563511]

There's two (well, more than that, really) sides to the suicide coin.

1. You have men like this. Men who have seen that which they have wrought, and found a life well spent. Rather than wither away and die as you say, these people deserve an 'easy out.'

2. Then, you have the "oh woe is me" crowd, where suicide is the cowards way out - because it's easier to kill themself than deal with their problems - consequences to everyone else be damned. A selfish, cowardice-ridden exit.

3. Also, you have those who genuinly have something wrong with their mind that pushes them to it. You can't blame someone for something external pushing it down on you like that.

4. Finally, unless there are more I'm too tired to think of, you have those that go for a good cause. The good soldier diving on a grenade. Sacrificing one's self for the good of many, etc - the true altruistic finale.

I think the problem is that most people hear 'suicide' and think of group #2 above, to the exclusion of all else. If only the world was that defined into black in white.

Re:The EASY way out!

[rjh]

"It is every American's Constitutional right to avoid paying taxes to the maximum extent permissible by law." -- Judge David R. Hansen, Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals

There's nothing wrong or immoral with reducing your tax bill. It's only wrong to do it in violation of the law. The IRS claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes illegally. He claims he engaged in a legal fiction to dodge taxes legally. We decide who's right or wrong in the courts: we don't leap to judgment on Slashdot. (I know, I know, I must be new here. Check the UID, kids, I'm not.)

If the IRS is right, then yes, his actions were unjust. If he's right, then more power to him.

If you believe it's virtuous to pay more taxes than you absolutely have to, I'm sure the IRS wouldn't mind if you threw an extra couple of hundred on your check come April 15. Otherwise, let's give the dead the benefit of the doubt, and not declare him to have been taking advantage of us.

Re:The EASY way out!

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Not to be cruel, but it's _not_ natural. If this were in some earlier time frame, or a less "technologically advanced" environment, your relative would've been consumed by some other predator by now. It's _un_natural to develop the technology to prolong a life beyond its natural usefulness; ie. into a vegetative state. We are completely skull-fucking the "natural circle of life."

If this post comes across as unnecessarily cruel, forgive me: I'm drunk on Bacardi 151, right now, and probably shouldn't post. At least I have the wits to select "post anonymously"...

Re:The EASY way out!

[MBGMorden]

It depends. Truthfully I think there is no real distinction between #1 and #2 in your post. Reality is we all die eventually, so everyone who commits suicide is speeding up the inevitable, but in both #1 and #2 both people have problems. Death will get both eventually so saying "I'm going to die anyways" doesn't do much. Why do some people's problems (cancer) become a good enough reason to kill one's self whereas other people's problems (a lost job for example) not get the same consideration, and they get branded a "coward" for taking that same "easy out"?

I could make the same argument - why should I have to subject myself to homelessness and digging through garbage hoping for my next meal rather than going out with dignity?

Whether or not one supports suicide or not really isn't important to me, but IMHO it comes down to a Mr Miyagi situation: "Walk left side - fine; walk right side - fine; walk middle ". Either suicide is a valid say of dealing with personal problems or it's not - judging which problems are good enough to kill yourself over and which ones aren't just gets way too subjective.

Re:The EASY way out!

[Valdrax]

(Hey, kids!: Quick poll. Who among you were completely honest on your IRS Form 1040 last year? Anyone?)

To the best of my knowledge, I was. Not only do I genuinely believe that you're a parasite if you try to take advantage of government services while paying as little as possible for them, but I'm not a fan of lying to save/make a buck (aka fraud), and I'm not a big enough gambler to think that a few bucks here and there is worth up to $100,000 and 5 years in prison.

Re:The EASY way out!

[Kadin2048]

So you were careful, then, to total up all of your out-of-state and Internet purchases, and submit the correct amount of Use Tax for your state of residence? Because anything less is, technically, fraud, and you've made it quite clear what you think of people who cheat the system.

Unless you are from one of the five no-sales-tax states, if you purchased anything from an Internet retailer who didn't charge sales tax, and you didn't pay the required tax voluntarily, then you, sir, are a tax cheat.

Re:The EASY way out!

[Kadin2048]

Well, assuming you are in a society where you can get another job, that's why it's #2 and not #1. It's not an irreversible state.

However, hypothetically, I guess I can imagine a society where a job loss really wouldn't be reversible. There are probably some historical examples. Some situation where, even though you're physically fine, you're essentially doomed for some social reason. In that particular, admittedly contrived, situation, I think it would be more like #1 and not #2. Of course, the long-term solution in that situation would be to try and fix society so that people don't get trapped like that, just like the long-term solution to people killing themselves because they have untreatable cancer ought to be to improve cancer treatment, but that doesn't mean that someone who chooses to kill themselves should be branded a coward, if their situation really was unwinnable and likely to bring them and others ignominy for the rest of their lives. We should abhor the social systems that produce such outcomes but the suicides themselves could be reasonable as individual decisions, even if the system isn't.

It's a question of circumstance which doesn't lend itself to black-and-white "always good" or "always wrong" judgment. Demanding that it either always be a valid or invalid choice for all "personal problems" is convenient, but the world is not that simple.

OK, I'm a sicko, I admit it

[$RANDOMLUSER]

I'm getting a HUGE LOL from the

Solaris budget concerns?
You have options!

Advert on the El Reg page announcing "EMC co-founder kills himself".

EMC

[Kagura]

I hope you know what EMC stands for, because we're not gonna tell you.

Never forget.

[Anonymous Coward]

May his memory live on forever in our... network attached storage devices.

Re:Never forget.

[MarkRose]

And just like that, his life was gone into flash.

Re:what does this have to do with science/tech?

[Anonymous Coward]

MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS! MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS!

The parasitic life form screamed. It yanked at the pain centers and ticked at the pleasure center.

WHY DON'T YOU MAKE IT ABOUT POLITICS, DARLING?

The right brain felt the rumblings decided to make it about politics for the potential reward. The left brain agreed and began to spin together a narrative. It wasn't cohesive but it's enough for an impulse.

The human considered for a moment. "Oh, wow, a guy killed himself in the UK because he had terminal cancer. What a great segue into a discussion on Obama's healthcare plan and how counseling is good!" he thought.

The right brain relaxed. The left brain got to work. The parasite smiled and kicked at the bundle of nerves a few times. Good.

Did he have to pick such a messy method?

[Anonymous Coward]

A rich fucker like him could've easily gone to one of those clinics in Europe and ended it in a more dignified manner. Imagine the poor bastard who ended up discovering his corpse... What an asshole.

Re:Did he have to pick such a messy method?

[GradiusCVK]

Don't know any details beyond what's presented in a few news articles and wikipedia, but he strikes me as a hardass Irish ex-Marine who didn't like to tiptoe around an issue. Not quite the "down a bottle of sleeping pills and a pint of alcohol then die in his sleep" type of guy. When he decided it was time to take care of business, he sure as hell didn't want to die like a pussy. Which is more dignified to you? Does it matter? Go ahead and kill yourself however you want.

He got on the bus

[plopez]

He used the Hunter S. Thompson method, large caliber to the head approach.

In the same situation I would have gone to a nice comfortable hospice facility in a nice liberal country where they would have kept me comfortable until it was all over. With an army of lawyers to keep family and business associates at bay. He did have the money for it after all.

In case anyone is considering it, firearms are *not* 100% guaranteed. High probability, yes. Guaranteed, no. You can maim yourself, cause blindness, brain damage, have to eat through straws etc. Due to the circumstances we may not know exactly how long it took him to die.

Another bit of advice, make sure you get your living will and medical power of attorney put together. I've been in a situation where we just *barely* got the medical power of attorney signed in time. Without it it would have been an even worse nightmare than it was.

Re:He got on the bus

[smellsofbikes]

May I suggest an overdose of heroin?

It doesn't hurt. In fact, it'll probably be the best feeling of your whole life.

If it doesn't work, you're not screwed up, missing body parts, having to explain scars, or a drooling idiot. You're completely fine, and have a chance to try again.

And, most importantly, if it does work, your friends and relatives don't spend years asking themselves "could we have stopped it? Was it something we did?" and will instead say "geez, I sure miss that person, never would've thought s/he was a junkie." Which is a far, far nicer thing to do to all the people you care about than a messy suicide.

Re:He got on the bus

[crazyvas]

"Here lies OrangeTide. He died by getting the crabs after giving head"....

Suicide Rate in Japan

[reporter]

The suicide rate in Japan is about 51 per 100,000 people. The rate is high but is less than the rate in some European countries. The rate in Lithuania is 92 per 100,000 people.

There is a curious pattern in the suicide rates. The rates among ethnic groups who built the most prosperous, high-quality societies (i. e., Western societies) are the highest in the world. The rate in Japan and Europe is much higher than the rate in, say, Nigeria. Most African nations do have shockingly high death rates, but that is due to murder. Suicide is quite uncommon in Africa.

What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[k-macjapan]

Actually, the suicide rate is much higher than that here in Japan. Due to the fact that a fair amount of deaths are officially classified as something other than suicide.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[c.r.o.c.o]

I'm pretty sure you're implying China or India, and you have check your facts. Their economies may be large and successful, and some part of the population may be well off even by western standards. However the majority of people, both in China and India live in abject poverty, and their economies are creating ecological disasters of enormous proportions.

Check out this list, http://geography.about.com/cs/worldpopulation/a/mostpopulous.htm where the countries are listed by population size. Except for the western countries, every single other one has at least one major issue, besides poverty for a majority of the people, that precludes it from being a success. For instance Brazil is destroying the rain forest, Pakistan is anything but politically stable and large portions are controlled by the Taleban, Nigeria is destroying the Niger delta for oil, and so on.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[Attila Dimedici]

If you think there is anyone in the U.S. living in abject poverty, you either don't have any idea what living in the U.S. is like, or you haven't a clue what abject poverty is.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[owlstead]

As a westerner you've also more time to reflect on live itself. If you are continuously struggling for your life, ending it is not something that comes into your mind easily. You can't be trying to get a living while reflecting upon it too much; it brings too much indecisiveness with it. Also, if you are very religious, you are required to have a goal and not to do sinful things like killing yourself.

So it's not just the length of life that matters. I think most people in Africa that don't die as a child get to an age, say 15, where suicide becomes common.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[Duhavid]

I don't know, but I suspect he doesn't need a Wii, he needs you.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[Ant P.]

Most African nations do have shockingly high death rates, but that is due to murder.

Actually I've heard that almost every continent in the world has a shockingly high death rate: 100%

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[immcintosh]

"Poverty" as it's generally discussed in the United States is a political term that bears more or less no relation whatsoever to the meaning of the term when used in any other context. You may as well be having a totally different discussion.

In other words, this is a problem with language that Wittgenstein shed some light on.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[twistedcubic]

Maybe it's just a heightened sense of privilege? Compare the suicide rates of American whites to African Americans (twice as many white suicides). If you think you're entitled to a certain type of life, it's very depressing when you realize it's impossible to achieve. Though African Americans have a much, much lower average income, live in poorer neighborhoods with more crime, get disrespected by cops and other authorities much more, etc, you might expect more suicides.

Re:Suicide Rate in Japan

[couchslug]

"What Richard Egan did is very Japanese. He concluded that his life would be a burden on his family, his friends, and himself. So, he chose to die by his own sword. He died with honor."

Very reasonable response.

Contemplate, after you KNOW what it looks like, the slow, horrible deterioration of mind, body, or both that is normal with the infirmities and diseases of age. If you live long enough, you are vastly more likely than not to be crippled and mad (not the happy sort of "mad"). Hmmm, do I want to die in a piss-soaked diaper with my pain barely controlled by medication (because physicians are often overcautious about managing the pain of dying people)? Does dementia look like fun? Modern medical technology can extend life for long after any reason (other then the delectation of imaginary celestial friends) for living is gone.

Society should get comfortable with discussing suicide, even though it means admitting we don't live forever.

Another Reason to Support Assisted Suicide

[xquercus]

Terminally ill residents of Oregon and Washington have the option of ending their own life within the existing medical framework. There are strict requirements and a number of checks and balances, but my understanding is that patients who request this option (and receive the appropriate approvals) are usually prescribed a lethal dose of a barbiturate. The high dose causes sleep and ultimately death. IMHO, this is significantly more dignified than a gunshot.

My grandfather took that very option

[bebemochi]

He had lung cancer AND prostate cancer. Late-stage lung cancer is horrible. My grandfather made use of the Death with Dignity Act in Oregon to request assisted suicide; we all supported his choice. It's hard not to when you see an intelligent, once-active man become delirious from pain, and bedridden due to having to be hooked up to machines that keep him from drowning to death (fluids in the lungs).

I'm one of the Oregon voters who voted twice for Death with Dignity, and am very glad that my grandfather was able to die at his own choosing, in a humane manner. (I don't think having to grab a shotgun and shoot yourself in the head, plus knowing others will find you and have to witness the scene, is humane - I say it not against Egan, but because I wish Egan had had a better choice.)

I've been close to suicide

[prometheus123abc]

I'm glad that someone here is finally admitting the moral complexity of suicide. Slasdot, while incredibly smart about some things, is sometimes lacking. Slashdotters don't like grey areas. Often, the impulse is either to condemn something as entirely right, or entirely wrong. I suppose this isn't much different from the rest of society- I just expect more out of my beloved /. In January of this past year, I was VERY close to suicide. How close, you might ask? Well, long story short, I had the rope fastened to a coathook in my closet, looped around my neck, but my closet wasn't tall enough to provide enough height for an instant death, and so I didn't go through with it. There was no epiphany. I didn't "see the light." It was a simple logistical problem. That is the level that a suicidal person's thought has reached. There are no moral judgements. There is no more fear. There are no desires except one- to be free of the pain. Looking back on it, I can see that, at that time in my life, I was almost reduced to an animalistic level of thought. (not animalistic in terms of survival instinct, but in terms of consciousness) I had no thoughts to spare about other people- in fact, I hated them for not being there for me. I still wanted to commit suicide later. Eventually though, I realized that, having lost my fear of death, I was free to do anything. As Edmund Burke said, pain is only the introduction to the grandest of terrors: death. Nowadays, I feel great. I still sometimes get sad about things that happened in the past... but I am free from fear. Once you face death, the fear of pain, and all other fears seem insignificant in comparison. But I won't universally condemn euthanasia or the struggle to live. Universal condemnations are usually made by people who are not intimately acquainted with the complex nature of suicide. The only thing I will say is- if you are going to kill yourself, you are obviously free from the fear of death. Why not take advantage of that fact to live a life of free action? Of course- if things get really bad, and I'm in a coma, or not strong/sentient enough to choose to die, lying there, withering away, I would hope that someone would pull my plug. Until that day though, I am going to live free, do everything I feel like doing, and never hold back.