Ubuntu 9.04 On Kindle 2

JO_DIE_THE_STAR_F*** writes "Jesse Vincent managed to get Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope running on the Kindle 2. The new functionality was presented in a talk at OSCON 2009."

Comments

First

[SmarkWoW]

But can it run Crysis?

Re:First

[gbarules2999]

The real question is, can it run Lin...oh, never mind.

Re:First

[natehoy]

No, the REAL question is... why?

A Netbook is cheaper, faster, and designed to run it. Why pay Amazon for an overpriced specialty item then make it do something it was never intended to do? I can't imagine the thing can still access the 3G network for free (the author replied "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT" to someone who asked)...

And, yes, I know... "because we can". And I congratulate the person who managed this. It's an impressive technical achievement.

Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wanting to do. Why would anyone really want to take a one-trick pony and change the trick...?

Re:First

[Hijacked Public]

Just the answer you gave is answer enough.

Keep it in context. This was a guy at an open source conference, showing off a new example of something that Linux people take pride in. If he were trying to make a business of selling Ubuntu Kindles then he might need to concern himself with the practicality of it.

Re:First

[Sinning]

You can't read a netbook easily in daylight. A kindle is also much smaller and lighter than even a netbook. However, I pretty much agree with you that there is not much point in doing this.

Re:First

[natehoy]

That's about what I figured. :)

Smart dude, significant accomplishment, and not to denigrate his success but I'd love to see him using all that brainpower on something else.

But I can't criticize - we all have our hobbies. I can't say the time I spend kayaking really helps humanity out all that much either (grin).

Re:First

[bigredradio]

Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wanting to do.

This is why I stopped reading Linux Journal. There would be some nice technical articles, but there seemed to be a lot how-to articles that only 1 or 2 people would care about. (i.e. Linux powered sump pump)

The "because you can" argument is getting old. I like the "because you can AND you can benefit from it".

Re:First

[Trepidity]

Well, I don't have one myself, so in some sense I must agree with the not-worth-it assessment. But it's not really expensive compared to a netbook, if we're talking about the Kindle 2 (the subject of this article) rather than the Kindle DX. It costs $299, which is basically the going rate for netbooks. So it'd be really deciding on features rather than price.

Kindle wins on: battery life, daylight visibility of the display, weight, free 3G internet

Netbooks win on: hardware (CPU/ram/hdd/etc.), color display, can run a normal OS without heroics

Just depends on what you want, I think. Do you care more about the 1.6 GHz Atom vs. 400 MHz XScale? Do you care more about a weight of 2/3 lbs vs 2 lbs? Etc.

Re:First

[Lord Ender]

You have got to be kidding! I have a netbook and an ebook reader, and they are absolutely not replacements or each other! OK, I'll spell it out for you in detail.

Things the Kindle can do that the Netbook can't:

• eink display: It's easy on the eyes, works in bright sunlight, has the same viewing angle as paper.
• Three weeks of battery life. The best netbooks can run for seven hours. The Kindle is in an entirely different class
• Free, unlimited 3G internet connection that works anywhere a cell phone works.
• Onboard GPS
• Access to Amazon's ebook store: This should not be easily dismissed. I read scifi novels, and every one I have looked up has been available. They are also several dollars cheaper than printed books, and I can buy them without getting out of bed :-)

I have a high-end PC, a netbook, an ebook reader, and a smart phone. I am very glad I have all of them. Each of these devices has capabilities or conveniences not available on the other devices. These are great times to bee a technophile; anyone who dismisses this tech is pointless has no idea what he is talking about.

Re:First

[langelgjm]

Finally, someone who gets it.

I'm a grad student, and I can't begin to tell you how many PDF files my professors have distributed to classes as reading material. Hundreds of pages, probably thousands. Sometimes I find torrents of books I'm supposed to read for class; other times, the Kindle version is cheaper than any available used copy (and I get it instantaneously, no waiting a week for shipping).

I'd like a netbook too, mainly for taking notes, but they're different devices with different purposes.

Re:First

[jedidiah]

A netbook is no more "designed" to run Ubuntu than the Kindle is.

The form factor of the Kindle might make more sense to a lot of
people. That's why it's successful as a book reader. Perhaps not
everyone wants a proprietary book reader. Perhaps it's time for
the advent of the "PC clone" version of book readers.

Re:First

[natehoy]

*IF* the 3G connection survived, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But the author himself merely replied "YES BUT DON'T DO IT" when asked if the 3G connection was still there.

Even with the loss of 3G, though, I suppose you have a good point. If you don't care about the thing talking, but you want to have a better index of books, or use it as a large GPS unit, or whatever, I suppose the tradeoff might be worth it.

Re:First

[0100010001010011]

Why not Debian? I know Ubuntu is built on top of Debian, but Ubuntu, to me seems to be the XP, Run on i386, look pretty and be easy to setup version of Debian that doesn't seem like it'd be suited for a Kindle.

Especially some of the emdebian stuff 'designed' for routers and other tiny appliances.

Re:First

[profplump]

Presumable the person who built a linux-controlled/monitored sump pump did benefit from it. Just because you don't have an application for it doesn't mean that none exists. And if you've ever had a failed sump pump, or more incoming water than the sump could drain, you might understand the benefit of having a "smart" pump that could alert you to failures.

At the very least there's the benefit of having done something he enjoyed and produced a demonstrable product -- it's not any different than someone who likes woodworking and builds birdhouses/furniture/whatever that they don't strictly need.

Re:First

[natehoy]

My post was not critical of the Kindle, per se. I haven't a use for one myself, but I recognize that others do.

My criticism was directed at the utility of hacking a Kindle and replacing the operating system.

Re:First

[langelgjm]

Likewise, I wasn't trying to criticize you. I agree with you, replacing the Kindle's OS is probably pretty pointless right now. (Actually, not totally, there are alternative versions of it that allow you to do stuff like download PDFs directly on it, change the screensaver images, and view unicode characters).

Re:First

[OrangeTide]

Please define "overpriced".

Re:First

[bhartman34]

I can't and don't claim to be an expert, by any means, but I think the other thing you have to keep in mind is that it's a good proof of concept. If Ubuntu can be put on it, that might mean that other, slimmer distros might be able to be put on it. What if you could take Android or WebOS, rework them to move a cursor around for item selection (rather than through touch), and run that? Either of those would obviously have no problem running on a 3G network, and you'd have the kind of light apps that the Kindle should be able to handle.

Like I said, I'm not an expert, but being able to install a new OS on the Kindle does open up some possibilities, I think.

Re:First

[vishbar]

Whatever happened to doing things because they're fun or cool? I don't understand...he does something that is, by all accounts, really neat, and people ask him "Why? What's the practical purpose?"

He did it for the "Can-I-really-do-this?" factor. Isn't that enough?

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

things it also does From Vincents presentation:

1.) Amazon knows where you are
2.) has your credit card #
3.) Your home address
4.) Sends syslog to amazon 2 times a day
5.) Profit !

Re:First

[CannonballHead]

I have a high-end PC, a netbook, an ebook reader, and a smart phone.

And money.

Re:First

[alc6379]

I think, though, what the GP was trying to get at is that the Linux Journal is kind of a "mainstream" Linux publication. Articles about Linux-powered sump pumps are great examples of "look what we can port it to", but overall they do nothing to encourage widespread Linux adoption by average users.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

Not any more.

Re:First

[myowntrueself]

Why not Debian?

Because Debian is crap on the desktop? And I'm a Debian 'fanboy' so I have a right to say that.

I have been developing some desktop virtual machines, I've tried Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty) and Debian Lenny.

Lenny is just not comparable with Jaunty for desktop use, and I'd imagine the same would apply to Kindle or Netbooks.

I'm not dissing Debian; I use Debian on servers, pretty much exclusively. I'd be very averse to using Ubuntu on servers.

Re:First

[SanityInAnarchy]

A netbook is no more "designed" to run Ubuntu than the Kindle is.

Depends which netbook you get.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if he uses Apple products.

Re:First

[0100010001010011]

The Kindle is not a Desktop.

Re:First

[geekoid]

No, the REAL question is... will it blend?

Re:First

[xaxa]

I have a high-end PC, a netbook, an ebook reader, and a smart phone.

And money.

Perhaps just different priorities.

At the moment, I don't really care about living somewhere "nice", so I'm spending £60-100 less a week on rent compared to most of my friends.

I have a decent PC, a netbook, a very nice bicycle, far too many impulse-bought CDs and clothes, and a 15 minute walk to the supermarket compared to my friends' 2-5 minute walks. (Hence the bicycle.)

Re:First

[TooMuchToDo]

The "because you can" argument is getting old. I like the "because you can AND you can benefit from it".

Feel free to start "Applied Linux Journal"

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

These are great times to bee a technophile

I'm a technophile and I'm allergic to bees, you insensitive clod!

Don't Bee me, Bro!

Re:First

[OrangeTide]

It's a 532MHz ARM11.

Re:First

[Lord Ender]

And money.

High end PC: $2000. Netbook: $400. Kindle: $300. Smart phone: $600.

That's less than $4k dollars. In an era where the average programmer makes $80k, that's a tiny amount to have a full array of cool tech. Just 5% of income for the sort of things men would once give kingdoms to posses.

Re:First

[Lord Ender]

6) You can turn the Kindle's net connection off when you aren't using it.

Amazon gets far less info about me than my cell phone provider gets!

Re:First

[myowntrueself]

The Kindle is not a Desktop.

To quote myself:

and I'd imagine the same would apply to Kindle or Netbooks.

I can't imagine Debian being BETTER than Ubuntu on the Kindle because Debian Lenny is so goddamn AWFUL for the desktop user experience (as opposed to the server 'user' experience). The Kindle being more like a desktop environment than a *server* environment.

Have I made myself clear now?

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

I recognize that they're two different things for two different purposes, and appreciate the readability and battery life of the Kindle.

But....

I think the grandparent's underlying point (which I entirely agree with) is that for many of us, the display and battery life simply do not justify a doubling of cost. The question is, why should I pay hundreds of dollars for a Kindle to read electronic documents, when I can essentially already do that on a netbook, plus a bunch of other things?

Sure, the Kindle is better for reading texts, but is it *that much* better? For me, currently, the answer is decidedly no.

For me, the Kindle falls into this strange no-man's land: in terms of readability, it sucks compared to an actual real book, which is cheaper, and in terms of general utility, it sucks more than a netbook.

This sort of thing--running Ubuntu on a Kindle--just shows that it's only a matter of time before someone sells a general-purpose OS running on hardware capable of eInk display, making ebook readers obsolete.

Re:First

[interval1066]

@nateboy: "No, the REAL question is... why?"

As always, the nattering neybobs of negativism chime in. Because he could. That's all the reason a geek needs. Anyway, I think its a cool hack. Maybe he can turn the whole bash into a Star Trekian Tricorder thingamabob.

Re:First

[DeadDecoy]

Ah that's the irony of kindle and being a student. It's expensive as hell but soo damn useful when you're trying to do literature review over a couple hundred papers. The one thing holding me back is I heard the citation manager isn't that great.

Re:First

[w0mprat]

It's a 532MHz ARM11.

Almost identical ARM cpu in the HTC G2 and Hero. So why not try get Android running on the kindle?

Re:First

[tirnacopu]

His brainpower is VERY well used on something else during work hours. Thank you for RT, Jesse Vincent.

Re:First

[natehoy]

Simple: "More than I'm willing to pay." :)

Re:First

[natehoy]

As I said, "and yes, I know... 'because we can.'" I'm not trying to detract from the technical achievement. Merely pointing out that it is, in fact, probably a relatively pointless achievement.

I understand doing things "because you can, I carve my own kayak paddles when perfectly good ones are available for less than I spend on the cedar 2x4. But I prefer to do it myself and spend the time.

Re:First

[langelgjm]

Well, I was lucky enough to get mine as a gift, so that helped :-)

If Amazon is serious about making the DX attractive in the academic world, they must must must allow some kind of folder structure, or something. A long list of files is not an organizational scheme. I don't know what the hell is wrong with whoever's in charge of making THAT decision.

I cope with it by "tagging" articles in their file names, but my collection isn't that large yet...

Re:First

[natehoy]

Well, it's got Ubuntu and a USB port. Of COURSE it'll blend... :)

Re:First

[jedidiah]

"preloaded" != "designed for"

There is a lot of hardware that is Linux compatable. Depending on the
luck of the draw, any particular device may be more or less compatible
with Linux depending what was included.

The likelihood that any PC was "designed for ubuntu" is vanishingly small.

Re:First

[OrangeTide]

Works fine on it. E Ink updates are a little crappy on Android because of the assumptions made by the drawing model, but it's been done.

Re:First

[OrangeTide]

Fair enough. I think the Kindle's hardware is probably fairly expensive, so I get annoyed when people wonder why it doesn't cost less than a cheap cell phone given that it is only monochrome and doesn't make calls. The functionality is, if you look at it from a distance, is inferior to a cellphone, but an ebook reader is a very specialized device.

I think the $299 price means it is still for early adopters. It's hard to justify spending that much on a gizmo that really serves one purpose unless you are just really into reading ebooks and not so much into blowing the same amount of cash on a little netbook to lug around.

Re:First

[Nefarious Wheel]

Smart dude, significant accomplishment, and not to denigrate his success but I'd love to see him using all that brainpower on something else.

However, it's an excellent demonstration of a non-paper resume. And there are still people out there making new hardware on small platforms. Wouldn't you want someone available who knew a bit about software if you were building something you might want to sell?

Geez Louise! It's hard enough keeping good people interested in this business without trivialising their efforts to show off their stuff. Think before you crap on people, please.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone really want to take a one-trick pony and change the trick...?

Well, once they shut the bar down the pony was of no use, but they couldn't just let it roam Mexico freely, for fear it would randomly perform it's "trick"... oh wait... that might have been a donkey...

Re:First

[Cato]

I suspect that if displays combining the best of e-ink and LCDs, plus multi-week battery life, become available in a netbook or general tablet format, ebook readers would fall by the wayside, or at least become much less popular. Another way of looking at the Kindle is that it's a specialised ARM-based netbook with a great display for reading books.

Re:First

[Grismar]

Several people have remarked "Because you can". Someone stated "Because you can and you can benefit from it" as a better reason.

More particularly, I would say that "showing you can" shows you that it's at all possible to replace whatever the device was running. Immediate utility isn't even required. So, if anyone thinks of a better interface or new function that -would- improve the device as a whole, they now know it's possible to do it. They don't have to stop at "I wonder ..."

Re:First

[Omestes]

I'm hardly rich, or even comfortably middle class, and I have a high end PC, a full on laptop (haven't found a reason for a netbook yet, working on the excuse though), a smart phone, a mac mini, etc... Don't have a Kindle, I love the idea (it just screams "neat!"), but hate the actual practicality of them. I might change my mind when they make them smell like old books, translate my margin notes, and make them into convenient places for my cat to sleep when I'm trying to read.

That said, all of this is available and affordable even to those of us who know how to shop around. I probably got it all for $2k, with a bit of research, some elbow grease, and some saving. Really, this isn't the 80's, having decent tech is pretty cheap and easy. My high end PC cost around $800, $1k with the 24" monitor, the MacMini was damn cheap, but decent with some 3rd party upgrades. The phone was a killer deal, especially with a bit of haggling with the commission happy service drone. The laptop was exceedingly cheap (around $200), but still more than I really need for a Linux play toy. Right now, even strapped for cash, I could grab a Kindle and a netbook off of savings, but I need to decide whether moving to Seattle is more important than having another tiny little computer (Phoenix sucks, bad).

I probably make half of what the average /.er makes, too. Though I'm beginning to think that the average age here is around 25, so maybe not.

Re:First

[Omestes]

Elitism much?

I won't buy a Kindle because I see no need for one, even if I can afford one. Sure, they are neat, but I like books better. Yes, they are "book like", but this is just evidence that books are superior (if they weren't, why emulate them?). A lot of the books I read are nonfiction (philosophy, and history texts), and I take tons of marginal notes. I reread these books fairly often, and use the marginal in them often as well. So far the Kindle really sucks for this. The page flip delay is also a deal killer, people generally start reading a new page before the even finish flipping the old page, to me (yes, personal preference) this is also a deal breaker, since it breaks the flow. I don't like the fact that Amazon can deny me access to my purchased books. I would like to see someone break into my home and try to grab a book from my library. Yes, being able to read PDFs is nice, BUT, there is a lot of good books that aren't ripped to PDF, and from my last experience Kindle's handling of PDFs was sub-par. Also a Kindle's battery might last 8 hours, but with proper care a book's battery can last hundreds of years (perhaps thousands).

I also, less empirically, like having a paper copy, something I can fidget with, fan the pages, dog ear, etc... I like the smell of books, I like the tactile experience. I like walking into my room of books and staring at them. I like buying a new book, and carefully cracking its spine before reading it. I like the feel of paper.

Yes, I might not live up to the technophile vibe of /. for any of this, but I'm okay with that.

The Kindle, like all technology, is something we should question; does it improve my experience or not? You probably have a different answer to this than me, and that is fine. But then again, I didn't even own a cell phone until recently, because I couldn't see how it would improve my life. Money might have less to play into this equation than you think, spending money on stupid things that you don't need, is dumb, no matter how much money you have.

Re:First

[Omestes]

Not really, look at game consoles, people buy them at roughly the same prices, and they epitomize of one trick ponies. I think a lot of people don't buy Kindles because they don't see the point in it, why spend $200 for something that I can already do for cheaper. $200 buys a lot of books (well, not as many as it used to, but still around 15 hardcovers, or around 50 paperbacks), and really doesn't offer as much as real books. Sure you can carry more books on it, but how often does the average person need access to 100 books at any given time?

Actually, even sadder, another reason that the Kindle doesn't sell, is that a shockingly low percentage of Americans read books for fun.

I can see it excelling in the academic market though, and markets that need quick access to many documents at any given time.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

The likelihood that any PC was "designed for ubuntu" is vanishingly small.

The Ubuntu PCs that Dell sells have some components selected for best compatability with Linux/Ubuntu (wireless cards, graphics cards etc.) so although the indivdual components were not 'designed for Ubuntu' the PCs as a whole certainly were.

Re:First

[KevinColyer]

I REALLY want a Netbook like you are describing!!! I already have a EEE PC and I hardly use it, the screen is poor for reading, battery life too, plus it is HOT. I also have a Nokia N810 and use that a lot, despite the tiny screen; it is more comfortable and more portable.(And the good battery life makes a big difference)

Your description of an e-ink Netbook is really the sort of device that I would like now I have had some experience of small devices.

I was interested in some other posts that describe the desirability of reading many small PDF's on an e-ink device. I can see the benefit of an e-book type device in comparison with carrying all the small papers around, as in printed form they are extremely cumbersome. On the other hand for casual reading a paperback book is hard to beat and generally I only need one of them at a time as it takes so long to read comparatively (that was the way "1984" was designed to be read eh?!) But for small papers and research I can see the niche an e-ink Netbook would fill.

Early adoption of these small devices has refined and developed their purpose and that will continue. I will be interested to see if this is the way newspapers will go. Although, I doubt that printed newspapers will vanish in the same way that I doubt that paper books will vanish. After all, I wont want to swat flies or cover the base of the budgie cage with a Netbook.

Re:First

[bhtooefr]

There's a reason for that - everyone wants to tether a Kindle, but nobody wants Amazon to find out about a tethering hack, because then they'll close it down, or worse, start charging for the wireless service.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess I'm a grad student who "doesn't get it" because I forgot that its impossible to have different opinions about a bunch of worthless consumer junk.

Re:First

[Unequivocal]

Do you not miss buying used books? I use amazon a lot to buy used books and haven't bought a reader b/c I love the used book market. I also re-sell books I'm done reading back to the local book store (where I'd guess they go back up on to amazon again). I guess your argument is that the convenience is worth the price of paying retail? I'm really asking, not trolling.

Re:First

[SanityInAnarchy]

Depending on the luck of the draw, any particular device may be more or less compatible
with Linux depending what was included.

And do you really think Dell would risk their reputation on "the luck of the draw"?

I'll give you a small (but annoying) example: My laptop could come with Ubuntu or with Vista. To get it with Ubuntu, I have to order it from an entirely different section of the website, with entirely different customization options -- obviously, I can't order it with Office preloaded.

The Vista version clearly comes with an 802.11n card. There's even a little "n-series" sticker on it.

But it came with an 802.11g card instead.

Want to guess why? I'm guessing it's because the G card had better Linux support.

Re:First

[bill_mcgonigle]

As I said, "and yes, I know... 'because we can.'" I'm not trying to detract from the technical achievement. Merely pointing out that it is, in fact, probably a relatively pointless achievement.

The viewpoint that no person in all of humanity can take this hack and do something amazing with it is either a gross underestimation of one's fellow man or a gross overestimation of one's imagination.

I can think of a half-dozen neat things to do with this. The cost-effectiveness of using the Kindle as a platform is my only question (is there a cheaper cell+eink platform)?

Re:First

[OrangeTide]

Actually, even sadder, another reason that the Kindle doesn't sell, is that a shockingly low percentage of Americans read books for fun.

But they do sell very well. The numbers that have been leaked are better than first and second gen iPods.

Re:First

[MartinSchou]

Free, unlimited 3G internet connection that works anywhere a cell phone works.

This isn't quite true. It may be true in the US (possibly only the continental US?), but if you take it out of the US there is no guarantee that this will work at all.

I don't own a Kindle, but I did have an interesting conversation with someone at Copenhagen Airport who had brought his Kindle with him from the US. He was somewhat angry at Amazon support, as he claimed to have called them before travelling overseas and asking if the download and wiki-bits would still work while in Scandinavia, and they said 'of course'.

First he thought it was because there weren't any 3G-networks available in Denmark, but that's simply not the case.

Obviously the issue is a lack of deals with carriers in other countries, and it may be rectified at some point, but everywhere is exaggerating the capability. Especially when you look at the coverage map that Amazon links to themselves.

Re:First

[sznupi]

Check Pixel Qi screens (don't forget to look at youtube videos of them) - you should get soon what you want (well, me too). Especially if in one of upcoming ARM netbooks/smartbooks.

Re:First

[bhtooefr]

More like there's not any CDMA networks in Denmark.

It might have actually worked in Japan, though.

data connection?

[quercus.aeternam]

I can't help but wonder - is the kindle's data connection still available?

And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?

Re:data connection?

[wh1pp3t]

I can't help but wonder - is the kindle's data connection still available?

And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?

It should be; the data connection (sprint) doesn't use an account-name system. It's based on hardware. The hardware hasn't changed, so one can assume connectivity will work.

Re:data connection?

[Trepidity]

The Kindle isn't limited to accessing Wikipedia and Amazon even with the default OS-- there's a web browser under the "experimental" features in the default menu. Amazon doesn't play it up much partly because it's not very good, and partly because presumably they'd lose money if people bought Kindles just for web browsing.

Re:data connection?

[langelgjm]

And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?

In your head? Or is that just a Kindle 2 limitation? 'Cause the DX can visit any site its primitive browser is capable of displaying. I've got a slashdot bookmark on my DX.

Or, did you mean the code that prevents you from tethering it?

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't help but wonder - is the kindle's data connection still available?

And if so, on what end is the code that limits the kindle to accessing wikipedia and amazon?

Yes, the data link is still available.

And kindle doesn't limit users to Wikipedia and Amazon! I can check my emails, get books from Project Gutenberg etc - I think the limit is Javascript (AFAIK).

Re:data connection?

[natehoy]

Someone on the project page asked the guy who did this if the data connection worked.

His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT".

If the person who managed it is recommending against it, the very same hoopy frood with the smarts who managed to go to all the trouble to hack Ubuntu onto the Kindle, then I gotta go with "it either doesn't work well enough to bother, or there's a really good reason why you shouldn't use it if it does".

Re:data connection?

[palegray.net]

Priced at $299, I doubt they lose any money on the hardware.

Re:data connection?

[popo]

Wait, really? You mean to say that if I have the right hardware, I could conceivably get free wireless access (at least to Wikipedia) anywhere -- and there's no system of authentication to shut it down without shutting down every existing Kindle?

That seems like huge news.

If true, I'm surprised there aren't black market chips that do this.

Re:data connection?

[Shatrat]

His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT".

The reason he typed in all caps was because he was running from Amazon's black helicopters.

Re:data connection?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Given that the connection is just a standard cellular modem, it'd be easy enough for either Sprint or Amazon(depending on exactly how their access deal is structured) to flag an offending device and just stop talking to it. It may well not be automated at this point, the process might even have be improvised on the fly for the first couple of times; but it should be doable enough.

I assume that Amazon is getting a much better deal, per modem in use, than most other users are because of bulk and because the Kindle is a lousy device for heavy data access, so I'd assume that they would be displeased by widespread use of Kindles as general purpose internet devices; but Sprint should just be able to cut them off one by one, same as any other cellular account.

Re:data connection?

[natehoy]

I was wondering about their patent on "One Click Kidnapping".

Re:data connection?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I doubt that there is any particular technical reason; but it might well be an excellent way to have the data connection cut off. Much worse, from the perspective of the linux enthusiast, who the presenter presumably is, would be Sprint, or any other carrier considering a future deal to provide a whispernet-like service, insisting on hardcore cryptographic device crippling as a condition.

Enforcing network security in the client wouldn't be a terribly good plan; but a carrier's attempt to do so could make a project like that of TFA much harder in the future.

Re:data connection?

[wh1pp3t]

Not sure why he states not to do that.
Granted, if the volume of traffic for a kindle goes way up beyond what Amazon and Sprint negotiated, there would be flags raised.
I'm sure there are some data usage catch-all's buried in the license agreement.

Re:data connection?

[rm999]

Amazon presumably pays Sprint for the service connection too. My guess is Amazon pays per byte, because they charge to wirelessly transmit books to the kindle (unless you buy the book from Amazon, in which case that's baked into the price).

If my guess is true, using it purely as a browser could cost Amazon a decent amount. Fortunately for them, the browser is terrible and the screen is too slow to browse quickly.

Re:data connection?

[Trepidity]

They don't lose money on the hardware, but they're selling you the hardware and a few years of unlimited 3G connectivity for that $299.

Re:data connection?

[Ma8thew]

He probably doesn't want to draw attention. If the data connection is abused then Amazon may try and block people from installing Linux.

Re:data connection?

[natehoy]

Then the correct answer is "NO", at least to the public. :)

Re:data connection?

[palegray.net]

I love the use of the term "unlimited" in contexts like this. I think I'm going to publish my own I.T. industry dictionary with revised definitions that match reality.

unlimited (\-Ëli-mÉ(TM)-tÉ(TM)d\, adjective) - for data transfer, any amount less than approximately 500 GB per month.

Re:data connection?

[bhartman34]

I can't say for sure, but I imagine the reason he said "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT" isn't because it doesn't work, but because neither Amazon nor Sprint intended the Kindle to use the 3G connection for heavy browsing. (Otherwise, it wouldn't be free.)

Amazon has locked people out of their store (and the Kindle accounts) before for misbehavior. Best-case scenario, if you go wild, is you'll find yourself without access to the online bookstore and/or your Amazon account. Worst-case scenario, probably, is having to pay a hefty bill for the access and losing access to Amazon and the Kindle bookstore.

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Priced at $299, I doubt they lose any money on the hardware.

You seriously believe that? Did you bother pricing what OEMs pay for E Ink displays and controllers and cell modem modules? If you pull the Kindle 2 apart it's obvious that it was not made low cost like a cell phone, there are off the shelf components in there that are quite expensive.

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's in the video. "Amazon knows where you live, who you are, and what your credit card number is."

Re:data connection?

[Starayo]

Here in Australia, "unlimited" apparently means 12GB. >:(

Re:data connection?

[bhartman34]

You mean to say that if I have the right hardware, I could conceivably get free wireless access (at least to Wikipedia) anywhere -- and there's no system of authentication to shut it down without shutting down every existing Kindle?

Actually, Amazon has built pretty good authentication into the system. The system stores:

1) Your Amazon account information
2) Your credit card number
3) Your location (via the GPS)

So if you do decide to piss Amazon off, like someone else implied above, you might as well just sit down, have a cup of coffee, and wait for the black Amazon helicopters to land on your lawn. :)

Re:data connection?

[pilot1]

Someone on the project page asked the guy who did this if the data connection worked. His reply was rather cryptic: "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT". If the person who managed it is recommending against it, the very same hoopy frood with the smarts who managed to go to all the trouble to hack Ubuntu onto the Kindle, then I gotta go with "it either doesn't work well enough to bother, or there's a really good reason why you shouldn't use it if it does".

Amazon only guarantees that the Kindle can be used to access a few websites (Wikipedia, Amazon, maybe one or two more), but they currently allow you to access all of the internet for free over Sprint's cellular network. Amazon pays for it.

If people were to start tethering their Kindles and using them as a means of getting free internet anywhere, it would become too expensive for Amazon to continue. This is probably why the author said not to use the data connection; he doesn't want Amazon to discontinue the free internet service.

Re:data connection?

[idontgno]

So if you do decide to piss Amazon off, like someone else implied above, you might as well just sit down, have a cup of coffee, and wait for the black Amazon helicopters to land on your lawn. :)

Oh, boy, finally! A real-world use for yelling "Get off my lawn!"

Re:data connection?

[trawg]

Does the Kindle have an EULA or something that defines what "unlimited" means?

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wispernet connection is only routed to Amazon by Sprint, you cannot access anything directly.
All web browsing is done through Amazon http proxy servers

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent point, and one that is often overlooked. More on the Kindle's virtues as an Internet access device:

http://tinyapps.org/blog/misc/200904300700_kindle_free_web_browsing.html

Re:data connection?

[Jared555]

Typically when someone says unlimited they mean unmetered (or, as much usage as current hardware, the laws of physics, etc. allow), but that is another term for people to keep track of and to be abused. Also, they couldn't say 'unmetered' and then limit you to 250GB.

Re:data connection?

[palegray.net]

Sorry, but I object to the term "abused" in this context. In plain language, if a carrier offers "unlimited" data transfer, a subscriber should be able to max out data transfer for the entire subscription period without penalty or throttling.

Anything less than this is fraud on the provider's part. If they advertise their actual data usage caps openly, I'm fine with that. The issue is honesty, not actual data transfer.

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the internet were state owned, it would not matter on whose network the traffic was.
It is better to have the state own the roads than to have them privately owned.. So it is better to have the state own the internet.

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, no of course it wouldn't shut down *every existing Kindle*. Each one has it's own chip in it with it's own MEID (Mobile Equipment ID). They would just shut off the MEID for *your* Kindle.

Re:data connection?

[Vardamir]

This is because Amazon can analyze exactly what you are doing, and may be able to tell if you are running software that isn't sanctioned. In which case they may cancel your warranty or worse. That said I'd probably try it any way, if I had the time.

Re:data connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

To upgrade from Ubuntu 8.10 on a server system: install the update-manager-core package if it is not already installed; edit /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades and set Prompt=normal; launch the upgrade tool with the command sudo do-release-upgrade; and follow the on-screen instructions.

To install KDE 4.3 on Ubuntu 9.04, the steps is quite confusing and so visit http://www.techarena.in/guide/9711-how-install-kde-43-ubuntu-904.htm for better understanding.

Guh...

[Aphoxema]

I love how SonicWall thinks HackADay is "[malicious] Hacking/Proxy Avoidance".

I've requested the site to be re-rated as Arts/Entertainment, but they refused.

Re:Guh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sitting at Panera right now, blocked by sonic wall with catagory of other.
nessus.org and insecure.org both work?

Re:Guh...

[Hatta]

So 'ssh -D' into your home machine, and tunnel all your web traffic through there.

Crap, now I'm going to get /. blocked for "proxy avoidance".

Re:Guh...

[VoltageX]

At one point, HackADay had article/s on how to bypass proxies such as SonicWall via SSH tunnelling.
This would probably be the reason

Why? Because it is there?

[filesiteguy]

This is very highly cool. I wish I had the time and money to spend on such an endeavor. However, my question is - how does one get to the CLI and type in the inevitable commands that must be run to make things work??

Re:Why? Because it is there?

[Psyborgue]

It has a keypad. Check the picture.

Re:Why? Because it is there?

[filesiteguy]

Yeah, my bad. I saw that was a keypad upon further inspection of the very quick video. Kind of reminds me of the TRS-80 CoCo.

Re:Why? Because it is there?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. You'd think someone who's so impressed with the feat would have some idea of what the hardware is actually like.

Re:Why? Because it is there?

[timeOday]

Also, he actually has it running X, not just the CLI, despite the screenshot of xterm which gives the wrong impression. (It doesn't look like he has a window manager going though, and I'm pretty sure the Kindle screen is not touch-sensitive... though I recall there used to be some hack to control the mouse cursor with arrow keys)

Imagine

[SnarfQuest]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these...

There, beat everyone else.

Re:One obvious question

[Trepidity]

It gives you a better base on which to start customizing the device--- e.g. once there was Linux on the XBox, people started producing software to turn them into media centers. The built-in OS on Kindle can't do much, and it's not easy to modify it to have it do more. For example, even on the Kindle's hardware it should be possible to have a better web browser than the really bad one that's built in.

Re:One obvious question

[Anonymous Coward]

because you can.

(Mod me redundant too please)

Re:One obvious question

[willoughby]

Because under *nix you can use file permissions to prevent Amazon from deleting your files.

(This is partly a joke - but only partly)

Re:One obvious question

[Monkeedude1212]

You're approaching the problem all wrong.

The innovative side of human creativity comes from asking the opposite. You should not ask Why... but rather...

WHY NOT????

help me out ...

[neonprimetime]

The new functionality was presented in a talk at OSCON 2009. Be warned, [Jesse] has a very high geeky-hacker level. Make sure you have a tech dictionary and Google at the ready when you watch the video embedded after the break. His talk starts at about two minute in and runs for five minutes total.

is there a new rating system i don't know about? what are the other options besides "very high geek-hacker level"?

Re:help me out ...

[ArsonSmith]

Here is the scale:

1) Stoned geek-hacker
2) very high geek-hacker
3) high geek-hacker
4) one-puff geek-hacker
5) sober geek-hacker

Re:help me out ...

[notmyusualnickname]

is there a new rating system i don't know about? what are the other options besides "very high geek-hacker level"?

I think it's based on something like the rate of neologisms/minute and the viewer's ability to parse them out based upon context.

Re:help me out ...

[geekoid]

The post office is starting to have problem because no one uses it for personal mail. Before everyone had email, it did just fine. ANd it still delivers a letter cheaper then the other carriers.

You might have a point if everyone started carrying a doctor everywhere they go.

How about a salient argument with relevant examples?

Re:help me out ...

[mattack2]

The post office delivers a letter "cheaper than the other carriers" because it has a monopoly to deliver letters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service

If you're delivering something via FedEx for example, I guess it's legally no longer a letter.

Re:help me out ...

[callinyouin]

1) Stoned geek-hacker

I'm number one!!!!!!!!11

Re:help me out ...

[aqk]

1) Stoned geek-hacker
2) very high geek-hacker
3) high geek-hacker
4) one-puff geek-hacker
5) sober geek-hacker
6) Prophet!

Re:One obvious question

[SnoopJeDi]

Your post sums up all the things that are wrong in the popular mind, and exactly why research budgets are falling at a time when they need to be drastically expanded.

Furthermore, it's rather arrogant to diminish the very deserving accomplishments of others just because you simply lack the imagination to think past today. If you don't find any use to it, don't use it. This developer felt it was necessary/cool/practical/etc. to put Ubuntu on a Kindle. This is basically THE tenet that guides software development by individuals. You develop what you use and keep to yourself re: the things you don't use.

Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[NoYob]

From their terms of use:

No Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, Disassembly or Circumvention. You may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, modify, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the Device or the Software, whether in whole or in part, create any derivative works from or of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat or tamper with or circumvent any of the functions or protections of the Device or Software or any mechanisms operatively linked to the Software, including, but not limited to, augmenting or substituting any digital rights management functionality of the Device or Software.

I wonder what the legal team will do? This is a derivative work and the guy did reverse engineer how things worked (a little) to get Linux on it.

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[Shikaku]

Did Amazon put a lease on the Kindle? No.

It's yours. The debt was paid and you own the device. You can bash it in with a hammer if you wanted. There's nothing stopping you from doing anything to the hardware, including damaging it. There's no law against hacking hardware, and you can already put your own ebooks on it so it's a moot point that it promotes piracy like you can argue for consoles. There are laws on the effects and results it can cause, mostly to do with the FCC and radio frequencies, and other illegal things you can do with any normal computer. The EULA has no sticking power.

Now, the idea that the 3G internet connection still works is interesting. There's no login credentials. So technically you DO have unlimited access to their network, until they decide to ban your chip ID. Then someone could make a class-action lawsuit and say they gave me unlimited access, you can't ban me.

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's not a derivative work; he's not using the orig software at all and that part applies specifically to the software.

They could probably get him for "reverse engineer[ing] ... of the Device", "bypass, tamper, ... circumvent any of the functions of protections of the Device", and "substituting any digital rights management functionality". If that EULA is enforcable(which it probably is).

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[FlyingBishop]

The Kindle runs Linux already. All he did was disable a few protections, which you would know if you had watched the video. That TOS has absolutely zero applicability, since they have already released the modifications they made to the Linux kernel (as required by the GPL.)

In fact, given the fact that the Kindle is Linux, the software provisions of their TOS are patently absurd.

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no law against hacking hardware

DMCA?

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[Khashishi]

Erm, those terms of use are clearly in violation of the GPL.

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[Dare nMc]

The debt was paid and you own the device.

correct, and the understanding is Amazon provides a service (ebooks, and CDMA/3G access) for the device under that agreement. So the instant someone violated that agreement with amazon, amazon is no longer under obligation to provide the other services. In essence the moment the device is hacked, they can turn off the pipe with no fear of a class action lawsuit.

Re:Interesting test of Amazon's Legal Dept.

[bhartman34]

Erm, those terms of use are clearly in violation of the GPL.

The terms of use refer to the DRM software mechanisms they used to make the Kindle. As long as that software doesn't link to any GPL'd software, Amazon is on safe ground. They're not really doing anything different than Tivo is doing, in that regard, that I can tell. In fact, a lot of proprietary software runs on Linux.

I don't suppose the FSF is happy about it, but I don't imagine that they'd be holding back if they thought Amazon actually violated the GPL, either.

Re:One obvious question

[palegray.net]

Even better, you can use the device to store anything you want, with the ability to copy it anywhere you want.

Re:One obvious question

[langelgjm]

I recently bought a Kindle book (was cheaper than used copies), and discovered that it appeared to have been scanned, and poorly at that. There were OCR artifacts, and the font was crappy. I read up on the situation, and found that Amazon offers refunds for 7 days after a Kindle book purchase. I called, complained, and was refunded the price for my purchase. (Not sure if the 7 days is accurate, read that online, but it worked for me).

I had backed up my Kindle files, and I was curious what would happen when I 'synced' the Kindle with its wireless connection. Sure enough, the book I was refunded for disappeared. Also out of curiosity, I restored the backed-up file of the book to the Kindle, and it was still readable.

You can already do that.

[langelgjm]

You can already do that. The Kindle appears to the computer as a USB mass storage device.

Re:You can already do that.

[palegray.net]

I want the ability to copy my stuff anywhere I want without having to go the USB route.

Re:You can already do that.

[langelgjm]

Then it sounds like you want an external hard drive.

The Kindle doesn't have 802.11b/g/n or Bluetooth. Putting (a different distro of) Linux on it won't magically make that hardware appear.

Maybe, just maybe, putting this distro on it will make it possible to e-mail files as attachments over the Kindle's 3G connection (for all I know someone may have already figured out how to do that with the stock distro), but what's the point of turning it into a glorified USB pen drive?

Re:You can already do that.

[palegray.net]

No, I don't want an external drive, nor do I need one with Ubuntu installed on this thing. Out of curiosity, why would I email files around when I can simply use scp, rsync, or [insert other network copy tool] to do it? Internet connectivity works fine.

Re:You can already do that.

[langelgjm]

You're right, I misspoke with the external drive. Sounds like you want a netbook with a 3G connection. You'd get much more than the 2 GB of storage on the Kindle 2, and you'd get a lot better keyboard. You'd also get a better screen refresh rate.

Is it cool that they did this? Sure. But I can't see many practical reasons for doing so, other than perhaps abusing the 3G connection.

More Books

[wembley fraggle]

I don't know why you'd particularly want to run X11 on a kindle, or certain apps. But there's definitely a space here for stuff like other eBook formats, word-processing (eInk looks great when you're outside), and improving on the general Kindle user experience. For example - the DX has PDF reading, but there's no real organization of PDFs other than by filename. What if I want to organize all my work PDFs (journal articles and whatnot) by journal, author, keyword, etc? Wouldn't it be cool if someone ported Papers to the Kindle DX?

Generally speaking, I love the Kindle hardware as a display device. The interface and user experience is pretty terrible, especially coming from a regular computer where there's always SOMETHING you can download to fix your problems.

Kindle Vs N900

[Shadow_139]

I may now re-think about getting a Kindle.

Re:Kindle Vs N900

[TeknoHog]

The N900 comes with a Debian-based distro with no silly limitations. Consider supporting a Linux-friendly business.

Re:Kindle Vs N900

[bhartman34]

From what I can tell, the N900 is more of a Kindle adjunct than a replacement or substitute (as far as e-book reading goes). The attractive thing (at least, to me) about the Kindle isn't how much it can do (which, while you can do basic web browsing and even texting and GPS with it, isn't that much), but rather how well it works as a book reader. I don't care if it's an iPhone, an N900, a Palm Pre or anything else: A 3.5" LCD screen can't compete with an e-ink device for reading text. Certainly, if you read books that rely on graphics (textbooks with diagrams, art books, comic books, etc.), the Kindle in its current form isn't going to be much of a help. But the Kindle (and, to be fair, similar readers from other companies) is far better for reading than the PDA-sized kind of devices the N900 represents.

Sometimes, you don't want a do-it-all device. You just want a device that does one thing very, very well. That's not to say the current crop of dedicated ereaders are perfect. DRM definitely detracts from their usefulness, and because of the DRM on many formats, the non-DRM ereaders are somewhat less useful than their DRM'd brethren for commercial content. But that's a publisher problem, rather than a technology or a manufacturing problem. Just like with MP3 players, the content providers will eventually come around, once the platform proves itself.

The advantage that ereaders have is that they've had time to develop a good distribution system. I don't think you can get a lot better than the Kindle, in that regard. The payment and download are seemless enough that most people simply won't bother to try to download illegally. That's what eventually happened with MP3 players. Starting with the iPod, in particular, the distribution systems became simple enough that the average user could do it with no problem.

Somewhat Meta.

[_KiTA_]

No, the REAL question is... why?

A Netbook is cheaper, faster, and designed to run it. Why pay Amazon for an overpriced specialty item then make it do something it was never intended to do? I can't imagine the thing can still access the 3G network for free (the author replied "YES BUT DON'T DO THAT" to someone who asked)...

And, yes, I know... "because we can". And I congratulate the person who managed this. It's an impressive technical achievement.

Still doesn't make it something I see a lot of people wanting to do. Why would anyone really want to take a one-trick pony and change the trick...?

My question is... doesn't it ALREADY run linux?

Re:Somewhat Meta.

[Tacvek]

Yes, it does, which is why it was easy enough to port ubuntu over. The real benefit here is that somebody could replace the (allegedly crappy) user interface with a new one, with proper pdf (with zoom) support, and some other features that should have been there in the first place. To code the UI for a new reader one could just use standard X11 programming techniques. That is to say, one could take xpdf, remove some of the crome of the application, and have a proper pdf reader, etc.

Annother benefit: It should be possible to ended the existing UI. For example, it should be possible to replace the crappy search with proper full text search. Doing some of that would require either breaking the DRM format, which would upset amazon, or replacing parts of the existing program. Doing the latter may be quite possible, since the code is java (IIRC), so one can just drop in replacement classes. If the java code is not obfuscated, then it may be downright easy (relatively speaking (It is always a pain to retrofit existing apps via reverse engineering)).

Re:Somewhat Meta.

[Ma8thew]

I think that any UI code would require extensive rewriting to work on the Kindle. Remember, on an EInk screen, the whole display must be cleared and redrawn to change any part of it.

Re:Somewhat Meta.

[Tacvek]

That does not mean that the display code must be changed, merely that changes should be minimized in order to retain best battery life. It may be desirable to change the UI's to account for that, but it is not an absolute necessity.

Re:Somewhat Meta.

[Ma8thew]

But refreshing the screen takes over a second on a Kindle. You can't just keep redrawing things without irritating the user.

Re:One obvious question

[BitZtream]

Chances are that *nix also prevents you from being able to use the device as it was intended as well, so its double the bonus. Amazon can't make the device any less useful to you because you've already done so!

Re:One obvious question

[BitZtream]

Until the next time it does a full sync with Amazon to confirm purchases. I wouldn't expect it to stick around forever.

Underwhelmed

[Drunkulus]

If a Segway could somehow be incorporated then the fanboy circle would be complete.

Re:Underwhelmed

[bcmm]

The Segway has fans?

Re:Underwhelmed

[Anonymous Coward]

Only the 3.0 Flying Segways.

Re:One obvious question

[langelgjm]

I already synced again, to see what would happen. It didn't disappear. (I had renamed the file, not sure if that has any effect).

Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[hovercycle]

Fact: The kindle is as big as a laptop. Apple could (in addition to the online music business) steal the book market with a tablet.. An eight hour, low power setting, would be more than enough to merit e-book reader status.

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[langelgjm]

Fact: The kindle is as big as a laptop.

Fact: no, it's not. I have the largest Kindle, and it's much smaller than a laptop. Probably even thinner than the MacBook Air.

An eight hour, low power setting, would be more than enough to merit e-book reader status.

No, it would just be a tablet computer with long battery life.

Eight hours for an ebook reader is a joke. The Kindle manages a week of heavy usage. I'm not saying that Apple can't make a decent e-book reader, but tablets and ebook readers are different devices with different uses.

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[hovercycle]

I've read peoples comments. Just like you, they don't realize that the books people want to display aren't just ASCII and have color. The tablet will prevail. Mark my words. On the subject of an eight hour battery life... If your gone for more than a day you probably packed your (LARGE) laptop with all the other stuff you need for an overnight stay. The one device philosophy would work the best in this case. Camping is the only thing I can think of... But who the hell would bring a Kindle to the Boundary waters?

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[langelgjm]

Just like you, they don't realize that the books people want to display aren't just ASCII and have color.

The Kindle is not limited to displaying ASCII. Graphics, charts, photographs look quite good on the DX. Any kind of PDF I throw at it looks great.

As for color... probably 95% or more of my printed, physical books are black and white. And FWIW, I believe they are making progress on color e-ink displays, so that's probably just a matter of time. Maybe you're in a field where color is critical, in which case a tablet might be a better choice for you, but I doubt that's the case with the majority of people.

The one device philosophy would work the best in this case.

My experience has been otherwise. Aside from the fact that reading on an e-ink display is simply worlds better than reading on a backlit LCD display, I like having a separate device to take notes on.

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[xaxa]

I think the weeks-long battery life is excellent for convenience. By the time I'm leaving for work in the morning, it's too late to charge stuff up.

Also, it's much, much nicer to hold an eBook than a netbook. With a netbook on a train I pretty much have to have it on the table, but I could hold up an eBook -- the Sony one is lighter than a normal paperback (IIRC).

(I don't own an eBook. The only thing stopping me buying one is the public library, which happens to be next to my local station. And that I don't read books on my commute since I started cycling to work...)

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[hovercycle]

Your right... I mainly want to display the RPG's I've downloaded. I just feel the book collection type that I have would be mostly incompatible. Plus I would really prefer a touch tablet (Like a big ipod). I will honor this argument and seek to experience the thrill of the kindle. Thanks for remaining so very pleasant throughout this argument.

Re:Apple has an opportunity, take it or leave it.

[hovercycle]

When I was riding the train to and from work I also read _a lot_. I almost like the "get away" opportunity that the train provides for reading. I really think I would like to use a "large ipod touch" as opposed to a kindle. I promised the other guy that I would try one though.

Re:One obvious question

[petrus4]

...why?

Seriously, what is the purpose of running a regular operating system on the Kindle? I don't see how that would make it more useful or practical in any way.

I will admit that I'm not familiar with the Kindle as a device, but personally I consider the addition of just about any new mobile that can run vim (at least) to be a good thing.

Also, in some cases, the corporate world appears to want a scenario where dedicated devices are the norm. In other words, you buy a Kindle to read ebooks, but you have to buy an iPod as a seperate device to listen to music. This not only creates waste, but is also usurious for the consumer.

If the Kindle has a USB port, it can probably now be made to do both.

Re:One obvious question

[Hatta]

Now you can use the Kindle to author documents, and not just view them. You can probably also use a decent web browser for a change. Maybe even play some games, or IRC or whatever. Use your imagination.

Is the ultimate answer still "because we can"?

[ClosedSource]

So the purpose of running a regular operating system on a Kindle is to give you a base on which to start customizing the device, right?

So ... What is the purpose of customizing the device?

Re:Is the ultimate answer still "because we can"?

[Trepidity]

Well, to get a better web browser, for one.

Re:Is the ultimate answer still "because we can"?

[ClosedSource]

A better web browser than what you already can get on other platforms?

oblig

[Icegryphon]

Ubuntu, which is an ancient African word meaning "can't install Debian".

Re:oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Debian is easy now. :-(

A couple notes...

[jesse]

What I did was to get a Jaunty _chroot_ running on the Kindle 2. The interesting bits were mostly around making X work and beating the 5-pad into submission.

Re:A couple notes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exhibit A that your Slashdot UID is inversely proportional to your ability to do cool shit.

Re:A couple notes...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you posted the code for the changes you made?

Re:A couple notes...

[DeadDecoy]

Neat, I'm interested in how you did this. Maybe you could a brief how-to? (I don't have a kindle so my ability to tinker is a bit limited right now.)

Re:A couple notes...

[Darth_brooks]

The fact that the device is a linux box at heart was a big reason for my purchase of a DX. It's a reasonably open device that has great hacking potential.

(and yes, I know, "ZOMFG Teh 1984zzzz!!!! Amazon will burn your books!" Please, quit dangling from Stallman's wrinkled sack and get a life.)

Re:A couple notes...

[metamatic]

How hard would it be to get evince running in such a way that you could still go back to the regular Kindle OS? Or even to build an evince binary for the regular OS...

Re:A couple notes...

[columbus]

I don't know much about the Kindle system. What kind of bootloader do they use? Is it possible to modify the bootloader to boot to Jaunty by default? Or are you stuck using the native Kindle bootloader & kernel?

Re:A couple notes...

[JesusH8sMe]

Exhibit A that your Slashdot UID is inversely proportional to your ability to do cool shit.

jesse sometimes logs out and posts as anonymous coward.

Re:One obvious question

[ClosedSource]

So we should start spending our limited research dollars investigating how to install full Linux on devices that weren't meant to support it?

How exactly does that further the state of the art?

Re:One obvious question

[hey]

Perhaps by renaming them?

snip snip

[Anonymous Coward]

If Amazon can delete books on a per device basis then it stands to reason they can cut off data access on individual devices too. It's only fair though, they are paying for the connection. Likely the cell carrier rips them off because books aren't very big and the typical traffic usage would therefor be very low.

Warner Brothers might have prior art...

[weston]

... that not only did something similar, it one-up'd one-click with voice recognition. I don't know if you've watched Freakazoid!, but there's a guy on that show named Candleja

Re:One obvious question

[Nyeerrmm]

In this case, the ability to have an inexpensive, hackable e-paper device would allow the development of improved usage patterns for low-refresh rate devices.

Right now there are only a few e-paper devices out there, so there's only been a few groups working on the UIs. With the community hacking at it, its very possible someone will find new, better ways to do things that make e-paper devices less specialized. All the complaints about the rather poor web-browser are largely based on a lack of creativity and effort in the UI department... if one of these guys thinks they can do better I'd love to see what they can do.

Semantic Web

[Tomun]

Watch the video until the end, there's a brilliantly funny presentation about the semantic web that you wont want to miss.

PDF SUPPORT?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the love of God, will this enable me to view PDFs on the Kindle 2? The Kindle DX can, but it's way more expensive and doesn't have SD chip support. Being able to use PDFs on this thing would be incredible.

Re:PDF SUPPORT?

[Tacvek]

It should. He has it running X11, so you should be able to just use xpdf. To get a mouse working, one will need to configure X to allow keyboard control of the cursor. I'm sure that is possible, and you would probably want to map the directional pad to mouse movements.

Re:PDF SUPPORT?

[bhartman34]

For the Kindle 2, you can use Savory. It's a version of Calibre (which he mentioned in the presentation) ported to run natively on the Kindle 2. I've got the original Kindle, so I've been using Calibre to do the conversion on my desktop.

Kidnap what, though?

[macraig]

So if you use a Kindle to surf to Amazon.com and then click on something, what exactly gets kidnapped... the Kindle, you, or Amazon?

Re:Kidnap what, though?

[natehoy]

Good question. Let me give it a tr...

I can think of one reason

[zogger]

Gadgets get old fast in our culture, and people move on to the next thing, meaning the old gadgets drop in price severely, and poorer folks can get them then.

  He's proven you can stick a full bloat linux distro on the thing, perhaps a few years from now when kindles start to get boring to richer short attention span people and they hit ebay for ten bucks, a lot will get repurposed because of this initial work in porting.

    Just a thought..because I'm one of those folks who waits until the richer dudes get the prices down on this, that and the other because they've moved on. A kindle today, too much, I have other priorities, a few years from now at ultracheap? I'd take one to fool around with it and make a cheap and lightweight ebook reader and browser. Or stick a zillion recipes on it and refrigerator magnets and give it to ye aulde ladee as a gift to have in the kitchen..something

I pretty much stay at the raw, bleeding, screaming dripping edge of five to ten years ago ;) shoot..I heard they got *cameras* on cellphones now..and they play music too... who woulda thunked it....

Re:One obvious question

[ClosedSource]

I think it would be much better to work on creating new low-refresh rate devices of higher quality or creating a very-high refresh rate device that uses little power. I doubt that different usage patterns are going to significantly affect the usability of these devices.

In any case, it's not clear if Linux (or any OS) is really a good platform for performing this type of research.

Re:One obvious question

[Ant P.]

I will admit that I'm not familiar with the Kindle as a device, but personally I consider the addition of just about any new mobile that can run vim (at least) to be a good thing.

It *sounds* perfect... but that keyboard looks like it'd give me permanent arthritis in a day. If someone sold something like this in big-laptop format I'd buy one instantly.

Re:One obvious question

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it was already running *nix.... Kindle 2 runs Linux, that's how this guy got it on.

Things the Netbook can do that the Kindle cant

[Anonymous Coward]

Slip off a cushion onto a carpeted floor one foot below without destroying the display. Kindles are TOO FRAGILE. Google it.

RT

[Keeper Of Keys]

Jesse Vincent invented Re-Tweeting?!

What's the ISBN #

[ArhcAngel]

I keep looking for UBUNTU in the Kindle's catalog. What's it's ISBN #?

hacking kindle for data tethering

[Anonymous Coward]

very cool! People have been quietly hacking Kindles to get free unlimited data tethering for awhile (not me, not me Amazon). We do love our Kindles here, even without linux.