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Congress Mulls Research Into a Vehicle Mileage Tax
BJ_Covert_Action writes to let us know that an Oregon congressman has filed legislation to spend $154.5M for a research project into tracking per-vehicle mileage in the US, and asks: "Do we really want the government to track our movement and driving habits on a regular basis?" "US Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon) introduced H.R. 3311 earlier this year to appropriate $154,500,000 for research and study into the transition to a per-mile vehicle tax system... Oregon has successfully tested a Vehicle Miles Traveled fee... the [Oregon] report urged a mandate for all drivers to install GPS tracking devices that would report driving habits to roadside RFID scanning devices." Here is the bill (PDF). The article notes that the congressman's major corporate donors would likely benefit with contracts if such a program were begun.
Can't they just read an odometer
Isn't that what the Federal Gasoline tax does?
With the RFID hacking efforts, one could potentially change the identification number so that your car reported its mileage on another vehicle. Then some old fart is wondering why he's paying thousands in taxes when he just drives from home to the pharmacy and the occasional trip to the local buffet restaurant.
Why do number of miles driven matter? I'd think the central concern is wear on roads, which is also dependent on the weight of the vehicle. So they want to charge based on weight*miles. Guess what? A vehicle's gasoline usage is closely related to this; big heavy vehicle, more gasoline used per mile. So they could just increase the gasoline tax.
Quite a few states have emissions testing every year or every other year. Make them get a sticker that also has the mileage. The next year, you figure out the difference. Pay the tax. Odometer fails it's the same as if ODB readiness fails.
How often are these RFID checkpoints going to fail? Devices fall off cars, etc.
Let me guess, there's a GPS tracking company in someones district.
Anything more than an odometer or fuel tax doesn't pass the smell test.
GPS could only add value for law enforcment and automating speeding tickets.
Are they planning on buying everyone a GPS device because I just don't see how this study can cost $154.5 Million
You want us to give The Man complete GPS records of all driving?
Am I the only one who finds that terrifying?
ass fucking every member of congress with a flame thrower
I'm not particularly opposed to an tax on my odometer, but GPS is way over the line. You want to know how much I drive? Fine. You want to know where I drive? Fuck off.
Besides, the gasoline tax is already a mileage tax. It has the added bonus of being a bigger burden on those who drive low efficiency vehicles.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Since related articles were omitted for this story... For previous discussion on slashdot, please check here.
:)
Please feel free to read that discussion and put your copypasta in this thread so we all know not to mod them up.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
HELL NO.
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Since this does nothing relevant that gasoline taxation doesn't already do, one can presume that it is intended as a tracking device.
If this is actually introduced, it will sooner or later be used to track down some horrible terrorist/paedophile on the run, and no one will object. The next year, it'll be available to track down whoever they want to track down, and if attitudes wiretapping are anything to go by, they won't need a warrant. Lucky it's such a blindingly stupid idea that they'll never actually implement it, right?
Right?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
How the fuck can ANY study cost $154,500,000 That's one hundred and fifty four million, five hundred thousand dollars. I don't care WHAT they're proposing. A traffic STUDY with that kind of price tag should get a resounding and unanimous "FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCKS!" from anyone voting on it.
I normally don't use so much profanity on slashdot but it's not like I can get any more obscene than what's being proposed.
The state legislatures are getting in a lather over the idea that gas-electric hybrids will reduce their gas-tax-based state income. It's all rather reminiscent of the year 2000 panic over computer glitches - based in a sliver of truth, but WAAAAY overestimated. They're looking to use these mileage-based taxes as a way to future-proof, but as you mentioned, the better solution is to just increase gas taxes proportionally with the fraction of gas being used thanks to improved technology, so revenue can keep up with increased expenses, while keeping the burden on those who do the most practical use, rather than taxing a hybrid the same as a cement truck.
Ryan Fenton
Insisting that the gov't spend the gas tax money they collect for roads, to pay to repair roads instead of funneling it off to pet projects that have nothing to do with roads.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
MOD PARENT UP, not down.
Fraud Alert: This is my best understanding. This is a new part of a very old effort. I remember protesting it many years ago.
There is some company in Oregon that expects to sell the equipment that would track miles. Quote from the article: "Honeywell International, for example, is a major manufacturer RFID equipment. The company also happens to be the second biggest contributor in the current cycle to Blumenauer's Political Action Committee..."
The mileage-tracking would download data remotely, using the same radio wave band used by wi-fi, or close. Every car would have the new equipment. A little aluminum foil over your car's antenna would stop the functioning of the system.
Quote from the article referenced by Slashdot: "... the report urged a mandate for all drivers to install GPS tracking devices that would report driving habits to roadside Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) scanning devices." How long would it be until a hacker reported that his vehicle was in Canada? Maybe, "Oh, yes, yesterday I was driving in the Kamchatka peninsula, after a long trip around the moon."
The biggest problem is that even the study would be extremely expensive for taxpayers ("... $154,500,000 for research and study into the transition to a per-mile vehicle tax system...") The second biggest problem is that buying the equipment would make Blumenauer's friends rich and taxpayers poor. The third problem is that it wouldn't work. There would be many, many failures in the equipment.
If that is true, it is fraud, an attempt to profit by using government power to do something bad for everyone, and US Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon) should be recalled as soon as possible, and barred from ever again participating in politics.
Often the actions of the U.S. government seem shockingly corrupt.
Someone would get the money, "$154,500,000 for research and study", even if no working system were produced.
Well, since gps in phones are killing the GPS makers, they needed to find a reason to start selling them again.
No you don't. How are you using the word "legitimate"?
If you mean lawful, well then that is bullshit. It used to be lawful to own black people as slaves. Forgive the hyperbole, but a laws are not intrinsically ethical, moral, fair, etc. If a law is unjust then it is my duty to perform civil disobedience. The idea that I should follow all laws and use the "approved" channels to change it is is insanity. When those "approved" channels are tightly controlled and effectively blockaded, by only remedy IS civil disobedience to the point I can attempt another avenue, which is the judicial process. Sometimes change can only occur through a litigation vehicle. Most bullshit does not get changed through lobbying, but through court processes in which laws are found to be unconstitutional. In order for that to happen though, someone has to be harmed by that law first .
Now if you mean genuine, which is another definition of legitimate, you cannot possibly know that. Additionally, tin foil aside, the actions of the U.S government have demonstrated a complete disregard for our rights to privacy, anonymity, etc. What about the scandal with the telcos, the NSA, and phone records? That has less media attention now, but they got away with it.
It is quite reasonable for me to believe the worst intentions with this GPS data as my government has already demonstrated an intense desire to possess this information and use it for intelligence gathering purposes. My government has also demonstrated a concerning pattern of abuse of it's citizens in the last 100 years for sociopolitical reasons. Hoover is well known to have hated Martin Luther King and to have abused his power to illegally monitor a U.S Citizen because of conflicting ideologies and political beliefs. MLK was just one of many and Hoover has not been the only government official to abuse their position of power.
With all due respect, you cannot state you know the government has no intentions of spying on us. Your usage of the word tin foil is also offensive (mildly). You do not need to denigrate and disrespect those of us that have good and legitimate reasons to fear this government. If you are an activist working against unjust laws and corruption, or are a whistleblower, you have good reason to fear the apparent conspiracy between corporations, government officials, and our legislators. All three entities possess a non-trivial amount of power and influence over our lives and there are examples in which political activists have been targeted and powers abused.
Your point is logical and reasonable about how a GPS is required to tax mileage. Of course an odometer will not work in this situation at all. I agree GPS is required. However, I think the real argument comes down to whether or not I want a presumably more fair and efficient method of tax collection (ostensibly to provide me with a well working infrastructure) while also risking the government permanently recording my movements and then later using that against me.
Personally, I fear the government's actions with the data more than my concerns over an unfair and less efficient method of taxing vehicle usage. We can come up with different, more passive methods of tax collection. THAT is not tin foil speaking, Sir. Not at all.
I am NOT naive and your insult is uncalled for. Your distinction between government, the "ruling class" (now that sounds like tin foil), and corporations is unnecessary and only serves to support your baseless insult.
I had already mentioned the interaction between government and corporations, so I clearly have an understanding of the relationship between the two. Therefore, naive is hardly a word to describe my understanding, and it's context can only be construed as a condescending insult.
Furthermore, although corporations wield influence, ONLY the government can effect the theft of life, liberty, and property. There are also considerations in the many Wars (Iraq,Terrorism,Drugs,etc.) that are completely separate from corporations.
A corporation may collect data on me and annoy me with advertising, affect my life with usury, and disseminate information without my consent. It may abuse the legal process and my ignorance of the legal language to gain judgments against me and my property. However, in order to DO anything they must still obtain the services of the "government". A sheriff has to show up to my property to evict me. A foreclosure must be approved by the judge. So on and so forth.
So it is not "simple" or naive to fear the government more than corporations, since in the end, it will be a representative of government that knocks on your door to deprive you of your freedom (jail) and your possessions (judgments).
I called Representative Blumenauer's phone number and talked with Mr. Willy Smith there. I didn't know that members of Congress cannot be recalled.
Apparently no one in Rep. Blumenauer's office has any technical knowledge whatsoever. That's what Willy Smith told me. Apparently no one in that office realizes that their complete ignorance could possibly be a concern.
Mr. Smith told me, "Representative Blumenauer has never done heart surgery. Does that mean he cannot introduce health care legislation?" First, Representative Blumenauer knows a lot about heart surgery if he has read news reports over the last 20 years. He knows, for example, that heart surgery often fails. He knows the sociology of heart surgery because he has heard his friends and family talk about it.
Second, yes, if he doesn't thoroughly understand something, he should not make expensive proposals about it, especially since it seems that no one in his office wants to learn. Certainly that is the impression I got from Mr. Smith. Although we had a friendly, respectful conversation, nothing I said seemed to make any difference to him.
Wi-Fi and RFID are entirely voluntary technologies. They depend for their operation on the idea that the users want the technology to work. When the GPS on a United Parcel Service delivery truck fails, the central office can call the driver on his cell phone. The driver will be happy to say where he is. Failures are unfortunate, but soft and friendly.
Tracking the location of every car is NOT a voluntary use. Any failure or accidental interference would be a reason for a court case.
Mr. Smith told me that many people say very negative things about legislation introduced by Representative Blumenauer and other senators and representatives. So, why should he listen to me, he implied. Good point.
People are, at present, saying very negative things about President Obama's health care bill. Generally what they say is poorly expressed. But certainly they have some reason for complaint. President Obama is trying to accomplish something in a way that is socially impossible. Hillary Clinton tried another confused bill, and her ideas were rejected, also. However, although many people don't like the health care bill, no one seems to think that President Obama intends to profit personally.
One of the problems with Representative Blumenauer's actions concerning the 2009 H.R. 3311 bill is that, to a lot of knowledgeable people, they look like criminal fraud. He has taken money from companies that sell GPS technology. He is proposing that those companies get a huge amount of taxpayer money, for a study. That means that the companies can spend taxpayer money, but they don't have to produce anything useful. Maybe a study could cost $100,000. But $145 MILLION? For something that any technically knowledgeable person knows immediately cannot work well? That looks like criminal behavior.
Can Representative Blumenauer be ignorant of the fact that people don't want to be tracked everywhere they drive? Certainly, people think, he cannot be that ignorant. Therefore, they think, when he completely ignores the issue of privacy, he must understand what he's doing.
Since it doesn't look like anybody actually READ the report Oregon put out on milage taxes I'll provide a link to the report. The reports themselves are in the top right of the page. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP/mileage.shtml They realize there is a privacy issue. Transportation Research Board (TRB) who conducts millions of dollars of research each year realizes there is a privacy issue. They are working on it. Please stop yelling "The sky is falling" so loudly and let's have a well informed, civil discussion about this. The gas tax hasn't been increased in ~20 years, so we'll have to pay for new roads somehow. If you hadn't received a raise in 20 years you'd be looking for new sources of income too. On top of that, vehicles are getting more miles to the gallon (a good thing), but are still damaging the road the same amount and paying less to do so (a bad thing). Either way, I think I'm late to this discussion, but they are worthwhile reports to read and should be attached to every discussion on this topic. I'd guess this paper should be read too, but I haven't read it myself. http://financecommission.dot.gov/Documents/NSTIF_Commission_Final_Report_Mar09FNL.pdf
Actually, as an Oregon Democract, this is one issue where I'd like to punch my governor in the teeth.
Not only is this proposal an offensive infringement of my rights, but it also takes away incentives to buy more fuel efficient vehicles. The core reasoning for this tax scheme is that greater fuel efficiency has led to serious drops in state fuel tax revenues. But rather than embrace this as a good thing, the "brain trust" in Salem would rather take away the incentive.
It's like being upset that less smokers means less sin taxes and deciding to put a high tax on nicotine gum to compensate. What. The. Hell.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").