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Children's Watch Allows Parents To Track Their Kid

Posted by kdawson on from the watchbird-is-watching-you dept.

pickens writes "The Telegraph reports that a new wristwatch called num8 has a GPS tracking device and satellite positioning system concealed inside so parents can locate the wearer to within 10 feet with Google maps. The watch sends an alert if it is forcibly removed. The makers of the watch claim it gives peace of mind to parents and makes children more independent. 'Losing your child, if only for a brief moment, leads to a state of panic and makes parents feel powerless. The overriding aim of num8 is to give children their freedom and parents peace of mind,' says a company spokesman. Critics of the watch say tagging children is a step too far in paranoia about child safety. 'Is the world really that unsafe that parents need to track their children electronically? I don't think so,' says Dr Michele Elliott, director of children's charity Kidscape."

78 of 607 comments (clear)

  1. Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sometimes I wish for some apocalypse just so the "Please won't someone take care of me!" dolts realize that the only person who can take care of you - IS YOU!.

    1. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by TrisexualPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      RMH101 puts it best...

      Is the world really that unsafe that parents need to track their children electronically? I don't think so,

      So what's to lose? Say you have a 6 year old kid: is it really going to harm them to wear one of these? Sure, chances are very very high that this'll never be needed, but so what? It's kind of like Pascal's wager, isn't it? The bit that irritates me most about this is the retailer's website "Loc8r", "Where R U" etc. I'd be more worried about the effects of this on their spelling than their general well being.

    2. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by malkavian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you're 5 or 6, you can't take care of you though.. That's what family and parents are for; the world's one big adventure, and you can cross oceans sailing in a top hat, with no food or water, and it'll be fine!
      For every hour of every day, it's overkill, but if you're going out to the local mall, and your kid's just at the age where they're free to wander a little, it may be a good idea.. I can remember (very vaguely) as a kid starting to explore away from the parents' house. I wandered up some side streets and got lost.. I was absolutely terrified, and so were they.. I wanted to go home and had no idea where home was, and they had no idea where I was.. Thankfully, back then, the community was more closely knit, and one of my mother's friends saw me and escorted me back home.
      So, yes, I can see some perfectly valid cases where this'll head off a lot of grief on both sides if used judiciously.
      Think it could sell as a student tool too (if I pass out in a ditch after a few too many, come pick me up please!!)..

    3. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm all for self-reliance, and for not being a paranoid nitwit; but the notion that all the problems of the world are solvable by rugged self-reliance and insolvable by other means would be merely absurd, were it not so common.

      Until the advent of mass spectrometers in every household, the difference between a nice cool drink and a delicious cup of cancer comes down to what someobody else may or may not have been dumping into your water supply. The difference between a safe commute and exciting fiery death comes down to whether or not some multinational car company decided to do a recall on the car the guy behind you is driving in response to a defect report from one of their subcontractors.

      There are, to be sure, loads of problems that are best solved yourself, ideally by means of not being a moron. However, pretending that all problems are such is nothing more than a good way to end up alone and helpless against people who are neither.

      In fact, that is the reason why you have to "wish for some apocalypse" for people to "realize that the only person who can take care of you is you". Under non-apocalyptic conditions, there are loads of people who can take care of you. Like your doctor, and the guy who makes your garbage go away, and the chap who (eventually) comes out when your internet connection isn't working, and the whole massive supply chain that keeps your widgets flowing. Contemporary society, really anything beyond the barest forms of subsistence scavenging, absolutely depends on division of labor and specialization. And, the necessary consequence of specialization is dependence on others. Not absolute, Smith's pin factory isn't a hive society; but pretending that you can have autarchic self reliance and division of labor at the same time is silly.

    4. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 4, Funny

      It costs 150 pounds ($240-250 USD). I think I can think of things more valuable to a growing child than an overpriced watch/GPS combo.

      Of course, remembering how I treated watches as a child, I think the GPS functionality might come in handy more often than you suspect. No, your child isn't going to be kidnapped, but he *will* lose his watch. Except this time you have a chance to find it. If this happens 10-20 times, it will pay for itself (vs. the cost of a visually identical non-GPS watch). If my parents hadn't stopped buying me watches after I lost the fourth one, I definitely would have come out ahead on this.

      --
      $_ = "wftedskaebjgdpjgidbsmnjgcdwatb"; tr/a-z/oh, turtleneck Phrase Jar!/; print
    5. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can remember (very vaguely) as a kid starting to explore away from the parents' house. I wandered up some side streets and got lost.. I was absolutely terrified, and so were they..

      That experience taught you something. It was a small step towards being a more responsible person. Kids who are under 24/7 surveillance never learn that freedom comes with responsibility, that their parents' trust to let them wander around by themselves must be earned by not getting lost. Getting lost taught you to be cautious.

      The grand-parent AC is right: Preempting every bad decision and the following consequences creates irresponsible children who turn into irresponsible adults.

    6. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by R2.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Contemporary society, really anything beyond the barest forms of subsistence scavenging, absolutely depends on division of labor and specialization."

      That's a hell of a jump there. Besides which, you are setting up a strawman. The GP didn't say "all the problems of the world are solvable by rugged self-reliance and insolvable by other means". He was bemoaning the fact that people expect others to take care of them and keep them safe. One can be responsible for oneself without roaming across the post apocalyptic wilderness.

      Let's take an example. Who is responsible for keeping you safe from criminals? Most would say "the police". But are you aware that, legally, the police are NOT responsible for that? Their job is to deal with crime AFTER it happens. To take it further, "police" as we know them didn't exist until 1829 with the founding of the London police. Prior to that, who was responsible for keeping people safe? The answer is that the individual, or family, was responsible.

      There's a big difference between the interactions of specialists in trade and a state of perpetual childhood. It's the difference between knowing some people make and sell shoes and it's my responsibility to acquire them by fair and legal means, and believing that it's the cobbler's responsibility to ensure that you have shoes. Or someone elses responsibility to force the cobbler to give you shoes.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    7. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I could where one at the mall myself.

      Then I could wander around and get lost, and when shopping was done my wife could find me, wherever my whims took me.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    8. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but the child may not know the parent can find them.

      The child could be lost a lot longer before the parents are worried (the child is not lost to the parents, but the child doesn't know that), therefore actually *enhancing* the educational experience for the child.

      Seriously, aside from the price, it isn't invasive, and it does help the parents do their jobs.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    9. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Publikwerks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I betcha Jaycee Dugard learned her lesson. The argument that kids make stupid mistakes to learn from only holds up if the repercussions are not catastropic. Death, sexual assault, ect... don't build character. I don't have a problem with this watch, as long as it was used at tool and not a leash

    10. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by h4rm0ny · · Score: 2, Insightful


      True. But if these things become prevalent then the parents that don't track and log their children's movements will be seen as irresponsible. Woe to the parent in court having her children taken away by Social Services because she's a negligent parent that obviously doesn't care.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    11. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You'd probably get a lot of good from reading about Berentain Bears Learn About Strangers. Sure kids are vulnerable. Bad things could and may happen to them. But there's such a thing of being too scared and too cautious. Basic moral of the story is this: You should wary and careful around strangers, but most people aren't all that bad, and you shouldn't go around living your life in fear. I'm not sure how something like this wouldn't be used as a leash. If you really have to know the exact pinpointed location of your kids every second of the day, then you have too much fear.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    12. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Let's take an example. Who is responsible for keeping you safe from criminals? Most would say "the police". But are you aware that, legally, the police are NOT responsible for that?

      Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the pertinent cases on this subject. From the link:

      Warren v. District of Columbia is a U.S. Court of Appeals case in which three rape victims sued the District of Columbia because of negligence on the part of the police. Two of three female roommates were upstairs when they heard men break in and attack the third. After repeated calls to the police over half an hour, the roommate's screams stopped, and they assumed the police had arrived. They went downstairs and were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, and forced to commit sexual acts upon one another and to submit to the attackers' sexual demands for 14 hours. The police had lost track of the repeated calls for assistance. DC's highest court ruled that the police do not have a legal responsibility to provide personal protection to individuals, and absolved the police and the city of any liability.

      Cute, isn't it? The police "lose" the phone calls, don't respond for hours and then get absolved of all liability for the hell that those people had to go through. Remember that story the next time you are talking to someone who tells you that the police will protect you. They won't -- even if you live somewhere with a police force that's more competent than DC, it will still take them several minutes to arrive. Until they get there you are on your own. You'd best be prepared.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    13. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by gtbritishskull · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't have a problem with this watch, as long as it was used at tool and not a leash

      I think that's why people are against it. Because it will probably be used as a leash. It will be one more way of controlling your kids in lieu of good parenting.

    14. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly. like karate lessons. How about teaching your kid how to defend themselves, along with all the goodness that comes with learning a discipline and being able to utterly kick the crap out of the playground bullies.

      $250.00 USD will pay for a few months of kids Karate, and the monthly fee for the watch will make up 1/2 the cost of the rest of their education.

      Plus, they are highly active 2 times a week, learn focus, attention and a skill that will save them a lot of pain and grief throughout life. You carry yourself differently when you can easily rip off someone's ears and shove them in their nose. This makes you less of a target to the scum of the world, and even gives you an air of confidence that get's you further.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    15. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Hertzyscowicz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the other hand, the watch is said to send an alert signal if forcibly removed. I'm guessing that the system will be swamped with false alarms by bedtime. That, or the child-abducting pedophiles prowling the streets will get a hold of the manual to figure out the correct way to remove it without sending an alarm.

      And they'll find these kids by cracking the tracking system. /alarmism

    16. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by b4upoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are towns in the US in which every aid need be applied to protect kids. Some places are simply way too dangerous.
                    This might also be useful for law enforcement as well as personal protection in that people can prove that they were not in a certain place at a certain time. For example many men have a problem with former wives who imagine that the old ex is stalking them. Having solid proof that your former mate is a dingbat could offer serious legal protections.

    17. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Informative

      You carry yourself differently when you can easily rip off someone's ears and shove them in their nose

      I don't know that I'd have that much confidence in karate. It's a great activity for the kids (builds self-confidence and discipline) and even adults (for the cardio workout if nothing else) but as a self-defense discipline many have found it lacking. Personally I felt like I came away with more from a single class of unarmed self-defense taught by ex-cops than I did from a year and a half of karate. Whatever confidence I did have in karate evaporated when our 6th DAN instructor got mugged by two teenage thugs armed with knives.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    18. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "is it really going to harm them to wear one of these?"

      As with most "think of the children" babbling, this is just a disguised indoctrination. Once it starts to catch on, it will be mandated for ALL children, ages ~3-15. Of course, once a child has worn the thing for 12 years, he'll be "used to it", the next step will be ALL MINOR CHILDREN. Justification will be a double whammy: "Think of the girls being victimized" along with "Male teens are responsible for 3/4 of all criminal acts, so we need to track them!" After the first generation of people who have been indoctrinated becomes voters, everyone will agree that ALL CITIZENS should wear such a device - and again, the double whammy. "Think of the helpless" right beside "We've got to track those dangerous males".

      I remind people of the theory, "People get the government that they deserve". Eventually, anyone who does something "out of character" as defined by a computer program designed to track them will be hauled in for questioning. "Why did you skip work today, then go to the beach? Are you a subversive? Are you a deviant? Were you looking at little girls?"

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    19. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "How do you expect a 6 year old to take care of themselves if they wander off somewhere?"

      In today's world? How many people live where a 6 year old can wander very far from SOME ADULT? Do you live in outback Australia, where the nearest neighbor is 30 miles away? If so, the GPS probably isn't available anyway.

      But, back to the 6 years old thing. Notice my nick. At six years old, a kid may not have great judgement, but they CAN take care of themselves. At age six, I had explored almost all of the township that I lived in. By age 10 I had covered almost all of my county. Get a grip - children are more capable than a lot of people want to give them credit for. Toddlers are the ones most likely to benefit from this idea, but if a parent NEEDS GPS to track their toddler, they aren't very good parents.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    20. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by InsertCleverUsername · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Exactly. like karate lessons. How about teaching your kid how to defend themselves,
      > along with all the goodness that comes with learning a discipline and being able to
      > utterly kick the crap out of the playground bullies.

      Um... So how does this address the little people getting abducted or lost? Even if they were 2nd degree black belts, it's not like they have the mass to defend themselves against most adults. Sounds like somebody has watched Ninja Kids one time too many.

      (BTW: I am enrolling both my toddlers in karate when they're old enough, but mostly for the discipline and a physical outlet.)

      --
      Ask me about my sig!
    21. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not the fact that he didn't "take them on" that shakes my confidence. From the account of the incident that I read it wasn't as simple as him handing over his wallet and going on his way. He went with them off the main drag into an alleyway, surrendered his wallet/car keys/cell phone/etc and was then clubbed over the head and left for dead.

      Anyone that would allow such a thing to happen to themselves while they still draw breath is not someone who has any business teaching self-defense. I would happily surrender my wallet to avoid a confrontation. I'd hand it over even if I knew I could win, because a wallet is not worth killing or maiming someone over.

      I draw the line at going with them. If someone demands that you go with them you should fight as though your life depends on it. Whatever they intend to do to you they obviously aren't comfortable doing it in your current location. It's sheer dumb luck that the instructor lived through this incident. He surrendered control of the situation and left himself at the mercy of criminal thugs. The fact that he's still in business amazes me.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    22. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by cnvandev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh I agree that it's like Pascal's wager, but that's more of a bad thing than you'd think. Granted, I've never raised a kid so I don't know how difficult any of this is, but the Pascal's wager logic is just weird.

      Yes, Pascal's wager is a decent justification for being religious but it proposes a pretty terrible way to get into a spiritual life, as a way of basically covering your ass in case God exists. It's basically the tattoo on the ass of the "Archbishop" in Johnny English: "Jesus is coming - look busy." Sure, you end up with a lot of people going to church, but they're going 'just in case,' rather than honestly believing that God is someone who should be praised. It's a lousy excuse for showing up to mass, and you'd probably be better off concentrating on being a decent, moral, secular person than faking that you believe in God, however well you manage to halfway convince yourself.

      Same thing with this watch. I mean a protection "just in case" your child gets abducted sounds great, but it's also a lousy excuse for not teaching your child to think about what they're doing when a stranger in a van offers them candy, or , or just in general. Sure, you end up with a lot of parents feeling safe about their children, but it's because they trust some strange device they're paying a monthly fee for, not because they trust their actual child, and which would you rather trust, some company called Lok8r, or your own offspring?

      Plus, there's plenty of technical reasons why this is a terrible idea. Ignoring the very real possibility for someone other than you to track your kid, you're saying you can't think of a way for someone to get the watch off without "forcibly removing" it in the ways they've come up with? I can, and they're more horrifying than a simple abduction.

    23. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Xaedalus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your post is intriguing. I'm going to argue that this isn't 'indoctrination'; rather, this is the product created to serve a particular market: new parents over the age of 35 with one or two children. For these folks, they've had children late in life because they put their career first. Now they're at a point where they feel they have enough money to have children. But because they're late in life, it's harder to have kids. So, once they actually do get a kid, they will gravitate towards being over-protective because of how hard it was to have a child, how much older they are as parents, etc. In my experience, I've found that these parents are more prone towards overprotecting and worrying about the world. They're usually the ones that want to coddle and protect and control everything, because their whole lives have been about control. From there, it's only a short step to 'indoctrination' as you put it - or simply a large population subset with the mentality that it's better to keep track of everyone because control is good and chaos is bad. If it works for them, it must work for everyone.

      --
      Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
    24. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by JohnFen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe it does harm the child. It conditions the child to the idea of pervasive surveillance. This not only lays the groundwork for tolerance of oppressive governments, but also lays the groundwork for growing adults who can't handle life on their own.

    25. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Jhon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So what's to lose? Say you have a 6 year old kid: is it really going to harm them to wear one of these? Sure, chances are very very high that this'll never be needed, but so what? It's kind of like Pascal's wager, isn't it?

      As someone who has lost a family member to kidnapping, I see very little wrong with such technology. Spot on with Pascal's wager, too.

    26. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by dlsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once it starts to catch on, it will be mandated for ALL children, ages ~3-15.

      Arguing against a "think of the children" fallacy with a slippery slope fallacy. Classic.

    27. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by KingSkippus · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thanks, I was about to post this. It's amusing that the poster used wild and baseless paranoia to "prove" wild and baseless paranoia. Wish I had a mod point to give out.

    28. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/04/warrantless_gps_tracking/print.html
      http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/no_warrant_requ.html
      http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/10/1549252
      http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_jersey/spying_on_your_spouse

      We're already on the slippery slope. Google around, and see who can track you, with or without your permission, with or without a warrant.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    29. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, most of the deadliest fighters in the world come from Tom's Dojo in the strip mall next to Lucy's Famous Nails.

    30. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by bugi · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you mean the reference to Pascal's wager as an endorsement, please see the wikipedia entry under section Criticisms.

      (In short, Pascal inadvertently rendered religion to its proper ridiculous essence.)

    31. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by Psmylie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What it boils down to is that you never let your attacker get total control over you. If you do, then you are reliant only on either their mercy or their incompetence for your survival, and neither is something you should bet your life on. Someone with a gun demands your wallet/purse/phone, whatever, yeah you give it to them because you are not giving them any more control then they already have. HOWEVER, if that person tries to enter your home with you, get you into a car, or tries to drag you off somewhere, that means that they are trying to take away the chance of you even running away. Don't let them do that.

      I told my niece and nephew this, also, when they were young. If someone tries to get you into a car, you fight like a maniac, and when you can, you run away. Even if they have a gun, run away. Even though that runs counter to what a lot of people think (that you always obey someone with a gun) you're better off running and hoping they either won't shoot or that they're a lousy shot than you are in hoping they will let you go relatively unharmed once they finish doing whatever it is they want to do to you.

      --

      psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo

    32. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "You do know that most municipal water supplies have hundreds of toxic chemicals intentionally dumped into it? For example, there is a strong link between fouride and bone cancer or flouride and brain damage."

      I'd take your concern for our precious bodily fluids more seriously if you hadn't misspelled fluoride. Twice.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    33. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by kdemetter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With that training and attitude, you will need all you got when assigned to a level 4 classification in prison. I'm sure you can find someone your skill there, perhaps multiple encounters.

      I don't know any real karateka would be taking pride in permanently disfiguring other people, even though they did have it coming. Self defense is one thing. Bragging about how you maimed people on a public forum is another.

      As a practioner of karate , for 14 years , i have to agree with you.

      The first objective of karate , is to improve one's character . The karateka has to train with (not against ) other people , and learns respect.

      To quote Gisjin Funakoshi : "the purpose of karate , is not victory or defeat , but the improvement of the character , and personality of the practioner. Karate is sport , self-defence and body culture . If violence erupts , it is only the because of disharmony between body and spirt . "

      "To be violent , is to be weak" .

      While i can understand that , in the above mentioned situation , it might have been necessary to break someone's nose , to survive , this is nothing to be happy about . You survived , you can learn from the situation , but if you truly feel good about hurting someone , you are not practicing karate , as that mindset doesn't fit in karate.

      --
      Slipping shoelaces ?
    34. Re:Kid won't know what to do when an adult by WCLPeter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Lets not also forget the dangers of teaching a whole generation of kids that its perfectly okay for those in authority over us to track our every movement.

  2. Good for pre-teens, but not older by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally I wouldn't use this for teenagers because at that age, they have matured enough that they deserve a little privacy, and they will be going to difference places and such as part of their normal social life. However, for pre-teens, they generally will not be going anywhere but the places you expect them to. If they're not at those places, then they're generally in trouble (whether they've wandered off on accident, been abducted, or are just being mischievous). I don't see how this bracelet really compromises much convenience on their part, so personally I wouldn't hesitate to use it on younger children.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    1. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by muckracer · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I don't see how this bracelet really compromises much convenience on their
      > part, so personally I wouldn't hesitate to use it on younger children.

      20 years later:
      "Dad...about that nasty cancer growth... :-/"

    2. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by gninnor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      At 12 I was biking to work, a carnival type job and legal. Preteen. Really you have to know your child, but I also think you have to prepare them. For some I think those the do the former, would not do the latter. And those that would track their child, wouldn't care to teach them to take care of themselves. I don't know what the cut off should be, but either they should have direct supervision in a safe environment, limited freedom, or full freedom. A lot can happen when you are looking up the child's location on the computer.

      It reminds me of dog owners. A leash is less necessary for a well trained dog, than one that hasn't received it.

    3. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you think 13 is a magic age where children suddenly deserve privacy of their whereabouts, heck no.

      That privilege is @ the parents' discretion. Usually people under age 17 must at all times tell their parents where exactly they are going, at what times. Typically parents just have to believe them, because it would be too inconvenient to have them watched at every moment, and well-behaved teens don't need it.

      And their parents may use any method at their disposal to verify the children are at the places they say they are. Privacy of location is not a right children have at any age.

      But usually if Children have demonstrated they can't be trusted the response isn't "Ok, wear this tracking bracelet", the response is "You can't go out, you're grounded." IOW, removal of privacy of location by disallowing them to leave.

    4. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by IBBoard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Personally I wouldn't use this for teenagers because at that age, they have matured enough that they deserve a little privacy

      That, plus if you look at the picture then there's no way in hell that any teenager would be seen dead with that thing on their wrist :D

    5. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Personally I wouldn't use this for teenagers because at that age, they have matured enough that they deserve a little privacy

      Exactly - if you put the wristwatch on a teenage boy, all they'll find is that he's spending most of his time in the bathroom rapidly jumping back and forth about 4" at a time.

    6. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And then your kids will sneak out of your house or get very, very lonely.

    7. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by Swizec · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you think 13 is a magic age where children suddenly deserve privacy of their whereabouts, heck no.

      That privilege is @ the parents' discretion. Usually people under age 17 must at all times tell their parents where exactly they are going, at what times. Typically parents just have to believe them, because it would be too inconvenient to have them watched at every moment, and well-behaved teens don't need it.

      Why would people under the age of 17 have to have little locational privacy? Personally when I was 13-ish I simply stopped telling my parents where I am, usually through either flat out lying or through giving nonspecific information, simply felt I didn't want them quite knowing where I am. Besides, if there was any sort of trouble, I always had my cell phone with me so it wasn't like I magically vanished out of sight ... having to know where children are was, imho, important only before the age of mobile communication.

      However, nowadays, when I'm 21-ish my parents still keep pestering me about where I am and I _still_ don't tell them. Just goes to show parents never learn, ever.

    8. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Personally I wouldn't use this for teenagers because at that age, they have matured enough that they deserve a little privacy, and they will be going to difference places and such as part of their normal social life. However, for pre-teens, they generally will not be going anywhere but the places you expect them to. If they're not at those places, then they're generally in trouble (whether they've wandered off on accident, been abducted, or are just being mischievous). I don't see how this bracelet really compromises much convenience on their part, so personally I wouldn't hesitate to use it on younger children."

      The problem is that it leads to a false sense of security and/or a state of hyper-vigilance. When you say "If they're not at those places, then they're generally in trouble (whether they've wandered off on accident, been abducted, or are just being mischievous)", it implies (by a logical fallacy, I know) that is they are at those places, then they are safe.

      So Jane Parent sends her kid off to Tommie Walker's house. She drills the specific route to there, so as to avoid the sex offender she found on the web (public urination) and tracks him on her computer, confident in his safety. Of course, the fact that Billie's uncle Ernie and cousin Kevin are visiting doesn't show up on the bracelet's software. So as she's checking every 5 minutes, confident that the sex offender hasn't snatched him up and taken him to his secret lair, while instead she is "witnessing" he precious be molested in front of her virtual eyes.

      As for the other 2 examples, if a child goes wandering off, they shouldn't be allowed to go places alone - they are either too young or have attentional problems and need more supervision. As for being mischievous, that's a discipline problem - if a kid goes where he isn't supposed to KNOWING he's being tracked, the parents have bigger problems.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    9. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why would people under the age of 17 have to have little locational privacy? Personally when I was 13-ish I simply stopped telling my parents where I am, usually through either flat out lying or through giving nonspecific information,

      If they accepted non-specific info then they allowed you that privacy as a privilege for you out of their own free choice, which is different from you having a right to that privacy.

      As for flat out lying, that's misbehavior, and prone to result in the grounding response when eventually discovered by parents either by asking around, or by covert tracking (covertly following you, or sending someone to covertly follow you and report on your whereabouts to the parents).

    10. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by natehoy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly!

      We live in an age where we learn about children being kidnapped thousands of miles away as if it was local news. We and our kids are safer than any time in history, but thanks to instant mass communication and the simple fact that bad news gets more attention and therefore sells more ad space and Lemon Joy, we hear about a number of kidnappings on a daily basis. I'm not saying the world is absolutely safe, and kids do get kidnapped, but we hear about it so much today that the risk rules a lot more of our world than it should. Of 1,000,000 kids, let's say one gets kidnapped by a stranger. But if all 1,000,000 parents keep their kids indoors, probably 20 of them will die of something related to the fact that they aren't outside burning off energy like kids should be.

      Result: A *Big Deal* is made of a mother allowing a preteen to ride the subways alone. Parents can no longer allow their 10-year-olds to play at the park all day, unsupervised, because someone from Child Protective Services will be knocking on their door as soon as it is discovered.

      If this tool allows a parent (who otherwise lives in fear of Something Bad happening to their child the instant the child leaves the house) to let Little Jimmy or Janie engage in a solid day of unsupervised free play, then for that family it's probably the single greatest tool they could purchase for the mental and emotional development of their child. Unsupervised free play is incredibly important to fostering the development of an independent, imaginative child.

      The kid doesn't need this. But some parents do.

      Is it right that the parents need this? No, of course not. But we live in an age of paranoia and fear, and this might help overcome that fear for a few parents.

      Is this profiteering on irrational fear? Yes, it is. But it may also help mitigate that fear.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    11. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by giorgiofr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what about that, what if you have a child whom lets you catch them on small lies, but never on big ones?

      Then you wonder why the hell your son is lying all the time and why you can't trust each other. I guess.

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    12. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or just learn to fucking behave and tell the truth. Is that so hard nowdays?

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
    13. Re:Good for pre-teens, but not older by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the simple answer is that you're obviously sticking your nose in other people's (your son in this case) business.

      Yes, it is a simple answer. It's my moral, legal, and ethical obligation to take care of my children; they have no privacy except what I provide them in the interests of teaching them and correcting any mistakes they might make. I take great pains to demonstrate privacy to my kids with the knowledge that I may take it away at any time if caught in a lie and just yesterday, I had to tell my boys that I lost a lot of respect for them and quite a bit of trust when I caught a "little white lie."

      Seriously, if my parents weren't so nosy they'd probably know a lot more about what I do day to day.

      Oops. I'm sorry, I made the above comment with the presumption that I was responding to a mature adult. This laughable statement proves me wrong.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
  3. ZapEM! by muckracer · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Extend functionality to provide automatic electroshock to BRAT moving beyond configured away-from-home radius
    2. ?
    3. PROFIT!!!

    1. Re:ZapEM! by dargaud · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Extend functionality to provide automatic electroshock to BRAT moving beyond configured away-from-home radius

      This has existed for dogs for about a decade...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  4. We never needed them before by chetbox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Parents have been perfectly capable of looking after their children without GPS tracking for millennia... IMHO with a little trust and good parenting, these devices are completely unnecessary.

    1. Re:We never needed them before by IBBoard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is it with the large proportion of parents who feel it suddenly is necessary, though? I'm a parent, and he may still be less than 18 months old and so not going very far, but both me and my wife feel that a lot of this stuff (including net nanny monitors) is overkill and is just going to destroy the child's concepts of trust, personal space and self-reliance.

      Instill good values in your child and do your job as a parent and you can't go far wrong. Start to let technology do your job for you (because, shock-horror, the other alternative is putting in effort and teaching stuff to kids) and it'll all go wrong.

    2. Re:We never needed them before by fiordhraoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Parents have been perfectly capable of looking after their children without GPS tracking for millennia... IMHO with a little trust and good parenting, these devices are completely unnecessary.

      A statistically low percentage of child kidnappings, etc, does not in any way assuage the grief and pain of a parent who happens to be one of the unlucky few. As someone else above stated, this is probably not appropriate for teenagers, but rather is suited for young children. The fact that the human race will continue without your child isn't any kind of comfort to a parent. If they make a value judgment that the peace of mind and possible benefit of purchasing one of these is worth the cost, then so be it.

    3. Re:We never needed them before by aclarke · · Score: 2, Funny

      I just re-read my comment. I hope we never have to get rid of disinfectants, and certainly not disinfectants either! That would be disastrous, not to mention being a complete disaster.

      --

      www.clarke.ca
  5. Training by AlterRNow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If I were subjected to this, the first thing I would do would be to figure out how to remove it without setting of the alarm and then tie it to, say, a car exhaust. If only for the challenge!

    On another note, the world may not be more safe or unsafe as it has in the past. The difference is that it has becomes easier to hear about what *does* happen with the internet and such.

    --
    The disappearing pencil trick. Let me show you it.
    1. Re:Training by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's simple... take it off several times a day claiming it feels uncomfortable.

      In other words, set off the alarm intentionally, repeatedly.

    2. Re:Training by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Pull the battery. The thing must be transmitting to a local basestation somehow, since GPS is passive (despite the popular press not understanding that basic fact).

      Faraday cages aren't exactly high tech and would defeat this also (if you wanted to abduct a kid a van with wire mesh on the inside would do just nicely).

  6. Electronic child leashes by Zebedeu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's funny, I was having a discussion with my mother about how I thought child leashes were stupid and too invasive on the child's freedom.

    My mother told me she used to think like that too, until the day she lost one of her children (either me or my brother, don't remember) in a busy place. When that happened she realized that maybe the leashes are stupid, but at least you'll never lose your child in one moment of distraction. Thankfully, she never went though with it :-)

    I think a GPS bracelet is a nice compromise between having peace of mind and being too imposing on your child's ability to move and sense of independence. At least when they really are children -- for teenagers it's a different story, IMHO.

    1. Re:Electronic child leashes by aclarke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is a leash too invasive on a child's freedom? I don't use one on my toddler but I wouldn't hesitate to do so in certain situations. If a kid is happier running along on the ground in a crowded or dangerous situation, isn't refusing to let them to this and carrying them or putting them in a stroller MORE "invasive on their freedom" than letting them run around within certain parameters?

      It's a kid. There's a reason children need their parents. They need protection, and boundaries. If I lived in a busy city, and had a kid that always wanted to run around, I'd probably sometimes have them on a leash and let them run around more than they'd be able to if they were squirming around in their stroller.

      --

      www.clarke.ca
    2. Re:Electronic child leashes by auLucifer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I find that the leash would be more invasive as you're treating your child like a pet, not a fellow human. A stroller just seems more civilised even if they both give the same restrictions. Except a stroller is handy for carrying everything you need with your child, provides shade as well as giving your child a chance to rest when they get exhausted. Everyone hates that tired, noisy toddler

      However if you've raised you child to stick near you, never let go of your hand, etc then the 'electric leash' is for those worst case scenarios when they are abducted or drift off somewhere at the beach (yes, bad parenting but it happens to the best, most cautios parents)

      --
      If I was witty I'd put something funny here but, as it stands, I am not and have just wasted seconds of your life
  7. Tag chip by Chris_Mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One step closer to the inevitable, mandatory tag chip for everyone. And future people will not have problems with it. Things like this watch will make children get used to these sort of things.

  8. Big Brother starts with you! by agnosticanarch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey, we should use devices like this to get children used to the idea of being watched constantly. . .

    Then, when they are adults, they won't mind Big Brother watching every little thing they do. It's for their safety, after all!

    ~AA

    --
    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
  9. please... by the_fat_kid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    oh, for fsk sake. have you people lost your damn minds?
    "lets get our children used to electronic monitoring early"
    We have a device like that here allready, we use it for work release from jail.
    How about we raise children that we trust out of our sight?
    If you need to track your children like criminals, then I feel sorry for you.
    sort of.

    --
    -- Sig under construction...
  10. Re:So, Dr Elliott, by carolfromoz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Also there is a good chance she would not have been wearing it in bed anyway.

  11. Deeply troubling by Kupfernigk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Forget the children for one moment. Consider the parental paranoia. We know that, fueled by irresponsible journalists, parents are being given quite wrong ideas about the frequency of abduction, number of pedophiles, and the general danger of the environment. This will not fix parental paranoia. Ten feet is the difference between sidewalk and roadway. Things like this merely feed it, inviting the "they wouldn't make these things if they weren't necessary" argument.

    Meanwhile I see mothers using phones (illegally, here) while driving their kids to school and weaving across the road. That's not a "perceived" danger. They let their kids get fat. Also not a perceived danger. They don't teach them the dangers of alcohol, which will kill far more people prematurely than all the world's pedophiles and kidnappers.

    We really do need to get across the idea that something can be technically feasible and yet undesirable, because a significant number of people do not get it. And in thirty years time the world is going to be run by people still metaphorically tied to mommy's apron, infantilised by never being given any freedom or responsibility. It's not a nice thought.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  12. Re:So, Dr Elliott, by muckracer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > what exactly would have happened to Madeleine McCann if she was wearing one
    > of these when abducted ? Either: (a) it would have been forcibly removed -
    > causing an alert, or (b) police would have been able to track her.

    Or (c) Tracking Police would have found her chopped-off arm, incl. intact bracelet.

  13. How is the alert and position sent? by twoshortplanks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not clear from the website how this info is transmitted. I'm curious if anyone actually knows... If it's talking up to the GPS then you could remove the watch anywhere there's no line of sight to a GPS satellite. Likewise, you could do the same anywhere there's no cell signal where the watch is...

    --
    -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
  14. Re:So, Dr Elliott, by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before or after her parents killed her and dumped her body?

    Oh and unless she slept with her watch on it would have made fuck all difference if she was abducted. Most child abuse comes from within the family, after that the majority comes from trusted family friends and people who are expected to be with the kids, only a small amount comes from strangers, so this will only be marginally more effective at preventing abuse than snake oil and kids would be better off allowed to go out freely (they would be out of reach their family & family friends). It's not that i think this is bad technology, but its very ineffective (and users should be aware of that) and may encourage bad parenting (not letting the kids go out enough).

    --
    IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  15. Not always paranoia by pvera · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a parent of an autistic child with escape artist tendencies, I would love to have this kind of watch. That is, assuming that my kid will wear it for more than 5 minutes in a row without trying to cut it off.

    My kid is 10 and incredibly fast. He doesn't understand the concepts of safety and fear, and is constantly figuring out ways to break our locks to go out wandering alone (he's even done it at school, which was actually a bit funny because he took off running in front of the principal, so for the first few minutes there was a gaggle of huffing and puffing teachers and secretaries chasing through an apartment complex until the cops arrived). A watch like this, combined with some kind of alarm could help us keep him alive and unharmed until he is 18.

    --
    Pedro
    ----
    The Insomniac Coder
    1. Re:Not always paranoia by macaddict · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Same here. My son has pulled the disappearing act on us a couple times. Both times we got extremely lucky, and both times were "look away for five minutes because he seemed to be busy doing something and then he was gone". He's getting better now that he's getting older about asking if he can go somewhere, but we still can't completely trust him not to wander off. Since we like to travel, we spend a lot of time in new (and often remote) areas. And since he's almost a teenager, it would be nice to be able to let him explore on his own (within a boundary) without us having to hover over him.

  16. Useless as a kick stand on a bass boat. by kurt555gs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Almost all child abuse is from family members. Wearing a GPS watch won't help to stop the step dad from hurting the kid. Abuse or abduction by strangers is so rare that it is hardly worth mentioning. All this does is extract money from parents and lets them pretend the danger is somewhere that it isn't.
     

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  17. Re:So, Dr Elliott, by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll pay you $20 million if we can settle this out of court!

    --
    IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  18. plug for my all time favorite /. sig by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "If you spend all your time childproofing the world you won't have any time to worldproof your child."

    I saw that in a sig awhile ago. Don't remember from who. It's a great one though.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  19. Anyone here a parent? by InsertCleverUsername · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Jeez... I was going to mod this one, but as a parent, I've just got to weigh in. Those of you acting like it's some police state conspiracy to track my four-year old, really have no idea what you're talking about. It doesn't change my attitude about keeping an eye on him, it's not invasive or dehumanizing, and the kid doesn't care --the kid probably doesn't even understand. He'd think it was cool to have his own watch.

    I lost track of the little guy at a theme park about a year ago when he ran off while I was --ahem-- indisposed in the restroom. We found him 10 minutes later, but it took weeks to get back in my wife's good graces. He's typically obedient, but these things happen --and no, training him in karate, giving him a copy of the Fountainhead, or some other moronic suggestion wouldn't have helped. As he becomes more capable of self-governance and demonstrates responsibility, we will give him increasing autonomy.

    --
    Ask me about my sig!
  20. Re:He'll be alive and well but you... by macaddict · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... will have run out of money. That "montly subscription" is sure as hell gonna wring every last buck out of yout wallet once they got you hooked.

    Try reading the website next time:

    Emergency use (1 alert/month) - £5 ($8).
    Standard use (60 alerts/month) - £10 ($16)
    Advanced use (90 alerts/month) - £13 ($21)
    Unlimited use (unlimited alerts/month) - £20 ($32)

    $32 is less than what a family spends at a restaurant. Go out to eat one less time per month, have plenty of money for the top-level subscription. And yeah, it's very much worth it if you can give your autistic kid a little more freedom and yourself a back-up system to keeping an eye on them.

  21. Top 10 reasons this is silly by bussdriver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) MOST the problem people for children are FRIENDS AND FAMILY! This fact can not be stated enough. Obviously, tracking does little good.

    2) The majority strangers are good people and will help / watch out for kids; well, not in lawsuit crazy countries or ones were the culture of fear makes everybody a threat; even the child who needs your help or supervision. Parents today seem over protective, possibly because they are so much more negligent than previous generations? (its not their fault they are this way)

    3) Teenagers will not wear such a watch, outsmart it etc. Teens get themselves into trouble; much of it not requiring tracking-- knowing where they are being foolish is not that useful. Its primary use here would be kidnapping into the sex trade which is much higher in some areas and at certain ages and genders. This is still quite a low percentage even in relative bad areas.

    4) Young "adults" would be better suited to a cell phone. Lots of ideas possible here. Ideally, something that was set it off with you yelling help... Your phone tracks you ALREADY to a general area if not precisely by this point-- no gps required. Eventually most children will have a cell phone too.

    5) Drug sex offenders to kill their sex drive. Similar to drugging the mental cases as we do now (both are mental problems.) This would possibly even help with the #1 cause of the problems. Makes more sense to have the sick people pay to treat themselves than everybody else pay to see where their kid was before / during victimization.

    6) How about we put the tracking devices ON THE OFFENDERS instead of all the kids? (which wouldn't help with biggest group-- friends and family.) This is a lot like house arrest bracelets.
    Seriously, somebody who preys on unknown kids/teens has a mental problem not a criminal problem-- punishment doesn't work; they only learn how not to get caught next time or go after safer targets (friends/family) or kill the victims. It requires life-long treatment, not temporary punishment. Its just as foolish as punishing gay people for being gay and thinking it will fix the situation. Legalized prostitution would also cut down the numbers- hey its a fact - prohibitions never work.

    7) Bad Behavior / Drugs: Knowing where the child is will not help a whole lot; most the drug users I've known did it around friends, at home, or even at school.

    8) Parents: Do you want to have data that could be used to prosecute your child?? In the USA, we prosecute children for stupid shit and are quite foolish about punishing them (in some areas even corrupt about it... http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/519/150)

    9) Clever hacker types (who could be kids) will combine with the power of the internet to provide less talented people easy ways to hack the watches so they don't work as planned

    10) What about bad coverage areas? GPS doesn't work in all places and sending the data back is even more troublesome. Should a parent call 911 because the child disappears near some kids basement? Would wrapping foil over it cause it to do the same thing?

    --
    Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
  22. Canada? by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2, Funny

    is there a service provider in the middle of Outback, Nowhere in Australia, or in Canada, or even some areas of the United States?

    I am curious as to why it is "the outback, Australia" and "areas of the US" but apparently all of Canada? We have a large variety of service providers up here: elk, bison, deer and moose. On advantage of our providers is that they can actually drag the child back with them - I'd like to see any of your fancy US providers do that. We even have a new cutting edge, high speed Canada goose network that has just enough capacity to carry iPhone traffic. So please remember that just because we all live in igloos doesn't mean that don't have access the latest tech.