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"Windows 7 Compatible" PCs Must Be 64-bit
Barence writes "Microsoft has started certifying PCs as 'compatible with Windows 7' — and is looking to avoid the mistakes that dogged the Vista-Capable scheme. Whereas Microsoft certified PCs that could only run Vista Home Basic last time around, this time PCs will have to work with all versions of Windows 7 to qualify for the sticker, including 64-bit versions of the OS. Microsoft also claims, 'products that receive the logo are checked for common issues to minimize the number of crashes, hangs, and reboots experienced by the user.'"
This will be another nail in the 32bit coffin.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Cuz without the VT ability in the CPU, it ain't gonna work, is my understanding. A lot of companies who cheaped out and bought lower-end CPU machines are going to be unpleasantly surprised if they need this ability. :(
I know as a dev, I'm going to have to request an upgrade to a machine that's compatabile with Windows XP mode. *sigh*
Because if they didn't release a 32-bit edition of the OS, it would piss off too many people. You'd have noticeable faction of people up in arms. I'm all for 64-bit computing, I'm not looking back. But there's enough people out there with 1GB of RAM or less that would complain. 64-bit OSes and 64-bit applications have a slightly larger memory footprint because pointers, offsets, and certain kernel object handles are suddenly 64-bits in length instead of 32-bit.
Linux doesn't "support" customers at all. Debian and Ubuntu have community support lifecycles, and you can buy support from Red Hat or Novell if you want.. but GNU/Linux is just some code, not a service.
Plus Microsoft isn't abandoning their customers. Windows 2000 extended support lasts through 2010 and XP extended support lasts through 2014. They just want to try to force OEMs to get with it and stop offering 32-bit processors.
Because Windows 7's main competitors - Windows XP and Vista - run on 32 bit. And not even offering your product to half your customers is a great way to ensure half your customers don't buy it.
The sticker needs to tell these people the feature set they'll be capable of running. They couldn't care less about the processor architecture.
What? They're not ending support of the 32-bit installer. There's no "abandoning" occurring. It figures the trolls are the ones who read the summary backwards and upside down.
I think the point of the article is that new computers must be 64-bit capable in order to be advertised as Win7-ready. This is quit different from saying that computers being upgraded need 64-bit capabilities. In fact, Microsoft would be in huge trouble if they made Win7 refuse to install on non-64-bit capable machines, because the "release candidate" runs on machines as old as my 1.5Ghz Athlon XP, and such a drastic change in specs from something called a release candidate might not go over well with the FTC or the EU.
Why would Microsoft turn down that money?
If there aren't enough people with builds like yours (32-bit but still decently powerful), it just wouldn't be worth the cost of maintaining a separate architecture.
Microsoft like to pretend that Windows and Windows Server are hugely different, rather than that one is crippleware.
One? :)
There is plenty of old hardware out there which only has 32-bit drivers. 64-bit Windows is a pure 64-bit kernel space meaning no 32-bit code at all. So, if you have a device with 32-bit drivers, you have to use the 32-bit version.
Also there are also some apps that fall in to this category. If they have a kernel component (like a virus scanner) that has to be 64-bit. If you have an old app that you need that doesn't have a 64-bit kernel module, well again you need the 32-bit version.
Finally there are computers that are sufficiently powerful to run 7 that don't have 64-bit CPUs. Netbooks are a good example. My coworker has tested 7 on his netbook and found it to be plenty fast. However, Netbook CPUs are still 32-bit only.
So it is a compatibility thing. It isn't really for new PCs so much as old upgrade PCs. All new PCs should ship with 64-bit chips.
... whatever it takes.
Have gnu, will travel.
What about netbooks running 32-bit CPUs? Those will all be declared incompatible with Windows 7, even though 32-bit Windows 7 will run on them? I think I must be missing something.
If only Microsoft had done the world a huge favor, and made Windows 7 64-bit only. And if only they had dropped a few different flavors of Windows 7, too. It would all be so much less confusing and frustrating.
These posts are irrelevant because windows 7 comes in both 32 and 64-bit versions. The article is just talking about little worthless stickies on cases of computer shit that let dumb people know for sure it will work on windows 7 computers.
"'products that receive the logo are checked for common issues to minimize the number of crashes, hangs, and reboots experienced by the user.'"
The Vista USB issue was a good example. And this policy would not have prevented that.
A manager at work insisted their new laptop had Vista pre-installed several years ago(pre SP 1).
Initially all was well, till it started blue-screening at random after about 6 months. It was difficult for me to nail down until Ipods(itunes) new ver 8 came out and bluescreened the machine 100% of the time when the iPod was plugged in. That was the clue I needed. Investigation found a disparity between the OS and the some (not all) USB controllers.Remember, some laptops can have different contoller type for side and back. At the time a few hot fixes wasnt 100% reliable.
Then SP1 came out, and I found a reference to my problem in the release notes. Not one problem since with USB. The manager can use her Ipod, any and all usb sticks, her USB printer at home, her camera. The fix was a couple years in the making.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
The sticker in question (Windows 7 Compatible) is not intended for use on a computer -- it's intended for peripherals and add-ons. Mice, keyboards, graphics cards, network cards, routers, etc. etc.
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What the hell is wrong this site? Are the editors becoming so lazy that they don't stop for two seconds to understand the stupidity of their headlines? You would think that Win7 isn't being offered in 32-bit mode from reading it. Instead, what it means is that any device you buy with that sticker will work with 32-bit windows and 64-bit windows.
Because Windows 7's main competitors - Windows XP and Vista - run on 32 bit. And not even offering your product to half your customers is a great way to ensure half your customers don't buy it.
Curiously, initial reviews say that amongst the general public, most don't have plans to upgrade. Must have something to do with how most people are friggin' poor now and can't afford to drop $700 on a new desktop, LCD, and then $200 or so on licensing a new operating system. Not when we're still getting over sticker shock from having to spend $800 freaking dollars on an 'HDTV' because of the forced and sudden obsolesence of every TV made before it. I'm sorry -- but if you make less than about $35k a year, forget it. Just keep using XP and playing Warcraft 3 with your friends. Who bloody cares anymore about having a gazillion gigabytes of everything and a processor you can fry sausages on? I mean, besides you and me, because we're geeks and attracted like moths to fire when it comes to computer goodies.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
this time PCs will have to work with all versions of Windows 7 to qualify for the sticker
Nonsense, there are lot's of systems out there, particularly Netbooks, which will not. Certainly will not necessarily be 64-bit.
If it only ran on 64-bit-capable systems, why is there a 32-bit version of Win 7 at all?
What exactly are you not understanding? This has exactly zero to do with a machine's ability to run Windows 7. This has everything to do with whether or not the manufacturer gets to put a little sticker on the case. The lack of the sticker does not mean that the computer is not capable of running any version of Windows 7, it simply means that the computer has not been certified to run every version of Windows 7.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Freedom. In 32-bit versions of Windows, if you want to do something that requires kernel-mode programming, you can write your own drivers. In 64-bit versions, you have to pay Microsoft to get their approval for your driver, or else it will only load if you boot Windows in a test mode where multimedia functionality is crippled.
Fuck that totalitarian bullshit. 32-bit forever.
(And yes, there are legitimate uses for writing drivers even though you're not a hardware maker. Some examples: Process Explorer, Process Monitor, Sandboxie, VDK...)
Driver compatibility.
The datacenter edition doesn't take any more resources than any other version of windows. It possibly takes less, because if it's anything like the server versions for 2008, it won't have the fancy Aero UI on by default. It lets you use more resources if you happen to have them, but just the fact that you install the datacenter version doesn't mean that it will take more resources.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Completely true!! re-read your quoted text: "this time PCs will have to work with all versions of Windows 7 to qualify for the sticker".
The last bit important - this is only about the sticker. At no point in TFA does it state Win7 will only run on 64-bit capable systems.
I created this account just so I could comment on this story
sticker shock from having to spend $800 freaking dollars on an 'HDTV' because of the forced and sudden obsolesence of every TV made before it.
BS. Nobody had to buy a new TV. If you have cable or satellite your old one kept on working with no changes. Converter boxes were widely available for antenna users and were even subsidized by the government. If you spent $800 on a TV it was because you wanted to, not because you had to.
Note the silence of the "Mac Jihad" when you're the second person to post, and anonymously at that. Really sure of your argument there, sonny eh?
Apple are still supporting older versions of OS X to this day (just upped a PPC to latest 10.5 with a recent security patch to boot), and kept up with the Classic environment for a long time.
10.6 is Intel only, but that was not surprising at all.
Other than just getting in a cheap jab at Apple while you were (incorrectly) bashing Linux for "abandoning customers", do you have anything to back up your weak arguments or did you go to the Right Wing Talk Radio Host school of debating?
Cue the Linux fanbois... ...screaming about how Bill is abandoning their customers after YEARS of support, whilst the Penguin does the same with 2 years of a kernel release.
Note the silence of the Mac Jihad.
I guess you read the summary backwards and didn't even consider clicking on the article.
I'm no Microsoft fan (Linux purist of 6 years now) but they are merely requiring hardware makers to provide stable 32-bit and 64-bit drivers in order to get a "Works with Windows 7 Certification."
This is a good thing for every day people.
Just recently I tried to help out a friend with a Vista 64bit computer to get his Hauppauge WinTV PVR 150 to work. Apparently it does not support any more than 3GB of RAM and is basically unusable (he has 8GB of RAM). It causes programs to crash and flat-out will not work with Pinnacle Studio 9.
Hauppauge claims it has something to do with the 64bit memory allocation or something. I can't quite remember what it was.
Maybe this will require them to revisit their drivers and make it "Just Work" like it should.
32-bit? Megabytes of RAM? Meh, kids these days.
If an 8-bit computer with 128 kilobytes of RAM is good enough for PC-DOS 3.3, it should be good enough for everything. Office software? Who needs that junk? WYSIWYG is for posers. They can pry EDLIN from my cold, dead fingers. Why, back in my day we *appreciated* the time it took our software to compute results, and the fact that we couldn't do anything else while it was happening. It gave us time to read the manuals while we were waiting! Those were the days...
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
They are just trying not to get sued again by someone that tries to run the product on a PC 5 to 8 years old that barely runs XP well. As for backwards support (or abandoning it) that worked well for Apple.
Wow, a QUANTUM sowing machine ("it's sew easy") and here we are waiting for quantum computing like idiots when Singer is years ahead of us ! Obviously it exists simultaneously as a 32 and a 64 bit machine, but you won't know which until you connect it.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
There is free support for Linux via the newsgroups, forums, Wiki sites, HOWTOs, Man pages, and many other things. But beware of the trolls that like to bite the n00bz and say RTFM. You need to have actually read the Linux manual before asking questions which consists of man pages.
Man ls
For example will display a man page for the "ls" command which functions like the MS-DOS "dir" command and some Linux distros will have a "dir" batch file to help DOS users adapt.
Judging from you attitude this sort of thing happened to you.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
You'll love this then. Since the digital changeover, my cableco decided, that to get more than 10 channels via their system, you have to 'upgrade' to their digital cable service. The kicker? Their 'new' digital cable boxes (new subscribers and upgraders only get the new ones from them now) only have HDMI and digital optical audio connectors.
The only half-way decent thing about the box, is that it also has USB, Firewire and Memory Stick slots. Of course, the Firewire I believe is mandated by the FCC. The USB slot is crippled and only works with external USB DVD/CD drives. The Memory Stick slot of course relies on Sony's proprietary Memory Stick and Memory Stick Duo trash. The other hardware on it sucks though. 128MB onboard RAM, 64 MB programmable internal flash (totally used and encrypted by them remotely - used to store the temp files for firmware upgrades, channel subscription info, etc) and the PPC equivalent of a 1.4 Ghz P4 processor. The thing runs about as quickly as a drunk turtle with two legs tied together. Oh, yeah, those memory slots I mentioned? Only good for loading .jpg and .wma files. It ignores other filetypes and the USB slot gives errors on device types that Aren't Approved(TM). Haven't bothered with anything Firewire, cuz I don't own anything that needs it (the stuff around here that is Firewire-enabled is all for Macs/videography/photography equipment).
Not that I'm going to bother paying them an extra $50 per month just to go to the next tier of stations when I can just stick to the 10 channels and watch everything I want elsewhere online.
@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
That number is a lie. The unemployment rate is not based on the number of people who would like to have work but cannot find a job, but instead on the number of people currently receiving unemployment benefits.
It therefore does not include any of the people who would like to be working, but for whatever reason are either ineligible for unemployment or have not opted to seek such benefits. This group includes young people who are just entering the job market but are unable to find work, people who were casually fired (getting fewer and fewer hours per week until it becomes unprofitable for them to keep showing up), folks who left their job for whatever reason and can't find another one, and a whole slew of other people (including those that have simply been "unemployed" too long to receive further assistance).
It may very well be the best measure of employment we can capture based on available data, but merely being the best possible measure does not mean that it's not complete bullshit in the context in which you're attempting to use it.
Kid-proof tablet..
The 80-20 principle [wikipedia.org] definitely needs to somehow be applied here.
No, I don't think it does. Man pages should be long enough to detail exactly how all the command options work. No longer and no shorter. I don't want some information arbitrarily left out just because a newbie doesn't know how to search for -l instead of scrolling through the whole document looking for it. Remember, the obscure options are the ones people need man pages for the most. You'll probably look up the -l flag for ls once when you first start using Linux and never again. The obscure stuff is what you're going to come back for time and time again.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Do you know why people burn-out so quickly nowadays? No more coffee-breaks while compiling or waiting for a print-job.
Many office worker happily recharged with a cup of joe listening to the gentle banging of the line printer churning out reams of paper.
Ah, happy days... [puts on MP3 of line-printer]
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Microsoft does not support the majority of their customers because OEM versions are supported by hardware manufacturers.
...and, AFAIK, you can't buy extended support (from Microsoft) for OEM versions and the hw manufacturers are not required to provide extended support.
so, unless you are big business, you don't have any real technical support, "pls. reinstall and call back" is the best advice you are given.
I'm getting more proffessional support for Liunux from the Linux community and from paid Linux proffessionals than you can get for Windows from anyone!
...and Linux proffessionals do not tell you that you are using wrong hardware or running the wrong kind of Linux.
That's absolute bullshit (or fud). You expressly do not have to pay Microsoft to get their approval. You just need to sign your application / device driver using a certificate from a bunch of trusted CAs.
.
See here for a list of trusted CAs: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms995347.aspx
> You don't think firefox uses a huge amount of pointers?
No. Most of the data is page content in various forms and stages of processing. The pointers would only be pointing to it, and would be comparatively few in number.
> The last time I saw a comparison by someone who was advocating that 64bit was always better
> showed a 20-30% RAM increase, and then tried to pretend that "didn't matter".
Funny, I can't /find/ a decent comparison anywhere. All I see is blanket statements of "64bit is bigger", and all the examples usually only measure executable size. Yes, executable size is larger, but the reason is not obvious. If you do a size -A comparison of both, you'll see that the size increase comes entirely from the .eh_frame section, which is needed on x64 because code normally does not contain frame pointers. This section is loadable, but is not paged in unless you throw an exception (by definition, an exceptional event), or get a backtrace for debugging. The actual loaded code is 10-20% smaller for what I have tested, so what you get here is a disk size penalty (which doesn't matter because the extra data isn't read until an exception), and smaller code size in RAM (which DOES matter).
> if for some reason you can't get 8GB of RAM, then you should seriously consider only using 32bit, IMNSHO.
Man, you really need a reality check. My Linux system (x64, of course) is currently using only 308M total, with the KDE beast and whatever crap it thinks it needs, and firefox. There's absolutely no reason to require ungodly amounts of RAM for normal operation, whether on x32 or x64.