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Ministry of Defense's "How To Stop Leaks" Document Is Leaked

samzenpus writes "A restricted 2,400 page-document put out by the MoD designed to help intelligence personnel with information security has been leaked onto the internet. Wikileaks notes that Joint Services Protocol 440 (JSP 440), was published in 2001 and lays out protocols to defend against hackers, journalists, and foreign spies. it says, 'Leaks usually take the form of reports in the public media which appear to involve the unauthorized disclosure of official information (whether protectively marked or not) that causes political harm or embarrassment to either the UK Government or the Department concerned... The threat [of leakage] is less likely to arise from positive acts of counter-espionage, than from leakage of information through disaffected members of staff, or as a result of the attentions of an investigative journalist, or simply by accident or carelessness.' " Looks like it's time to write JSP 441.

141 comments

  1. May I be the first to say by pecosdave · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Documentation security - you're doing it wrong.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:May I be the first to say by ImNotAtWork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      that causes political harm or embarrassment

      Other than military secrets like we have a spy in such and such position. I'm going to call upon.. "If you don't act in a manner that would embarrass yourself/department you should have nothing to worry about." They have been using it to justify countless forms of monitoring.. let's see how they like it when the positions are switched.. Yes I know I'm living in fantasy land.

      --
      open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
    2. Re:May I be the first to say by koolfy · · Score: 1

      can't stop laughing... tears... can't breathe... heart stopped... death by Recursive Fail.

      October 6, 2009. Today, a comedian died in Slashdot.

      --
      Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
    3. Re:May I be the first to say by mrrudge · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry citizen. 'If you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide' is a rule we made for the hoi-polloi, we've been very careful to include exemptions for the ruling classes, now, please place a dna sample in the cup provided and move right along.

      Flippantly aside, for some good examples of what ( has been allowed to be published about what ) goes on in the name of the people, a 'history' of MI5 ( Military Intelligence, Section 5. Counter Intelligence and Security in the UK. ) has just been published, yesterday I think. Regnum Defende / Defence of the Realm.

      There are some BBC articles about it from here:
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8289962.stm

      Smoke. Mirror. I'm looking forward to picking it up.

    4. Re:May I be the first to say by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Informative

      that causes political harm or embarrassment

      Other than military secrets like we have a spy in such and such position. I'm going to call upon.. "If you don't act in a manner that would embarrass yourself/department you should have nothing to worry about." They have been using it to justify countless forms of monitoring.. let's see how they like it when the positions are switched.. Yes I know I'm living in fantasy land.

      I think the UK government reached an all time low in this is when Thatcher's government tried to use the official secrets act to prevent it becoming public knowledge that they had encouraged Matrix Churchill and Sheffield Forgemasters to make Saddam Hussain's supergun, even though keeping it quiet would have resulted in the directors going to prison. So they were prepared to see innocent men who had cooperated with the intelligence services (even offering to fit a tracking device) go to prison rather than be embarrassed.

    5. Re:May I be the first to say by Hucko · · Score: 1

      October 6, 2009. Today, a comedian died in Slashdot.

      yep, that was a recursive fail

      --
      Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    6. Re:May I be the first to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sigh...everybody knows that it's false information put out there on purpose.

    7. Re:May I be the first to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, wikileaks is slashdotted.

    8. Re:May I be the first to say by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      now, please place a dna sample in the cup provided and move right along.

      I might need some magazines or an internet connection before I can accommodate your request ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:May I be the first to say by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think they reached their new all time low each time they took rights away from their own citizens.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    10. Re:May I be the first to say by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      Pah!, guns are irrelevant if the SIS are deceiving us as to who should be shot! We would need Govt transparency to figure out that, and a sack of NH4NO3 (readily available in the UK, AFAIK) would take care of the rest.

    11. Re:May I be the first to say by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The article on th efront page does not draw attention to the most remarkable - and horrible - aspect of the MoD document.

      It consistently groups "investigative journalists" into a category with "terrorists", "criminals" and "computer hackers".

      The document states "the "enemy" is unwelcome publicity of any kind, and through any medium". This is the military. "Enemy" is not a metaphor to these people.

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    12. Re:May I be the first to say by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That really hit me, as I read the article. By extension, any taxpaying citizen who would read the work of an investigative reporter would also be an enemy of the state. There is simply no way to justify the logic of their classification. Expect a new expose' in the US - people who request information under the FOI act are investigated by FBI/NSA/CIA etc ad nauseum.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    13. Re:May I be the first to say by eyrieowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I am trying to prevent leaks of some type of information, anyone who might be actively attempting to get that information SHOULD be grouped together in a gross classification scheme. Or, to put another spin on it, let's say that I find it offensive that you grouped "computer hackers" with "terrorists" and "criminals".... You should stop seeing the grouping as a set of moral equivalences and recognize them as functional equivalences for a narrowly defined function (actively trying to get secret information). As for "enemy"...I find unwelcome publicity to be my enemy as well. Fortunately I'm a nobody so I've never had to face that enemy, but I sure wouldn't welcome it. Yes, perhaps in a military context another word like "adversary" might be more appropriate for this problem, but that's getting into semantics and PC. Semantics aside, a) it's a valid problem b) the classification scheme is useful and valid.

    14. Re:May I be the first to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      disclosure of official information (whether protectively marked or not) that causes political harm or embarrassment to either the UK Government or the Department concerned

      These words are the ultimate recruiting tool for a terrorist organization. In Britain, terrorist organizations don't recruit you, the government recruits you for the terrorist organizations. I guess it works the same way in Afghanistan and Pakistan for the US.

    15. Re:May I be the first to say by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They have placed the lawful activity of public interest journalism into the functional category of hostile, combat action.

      They are not "your" military, any more, are they?

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    16. Re:May I be the first to say by PDX · · Score: 1

      First Rule about our secret club: "Nobody talks about the secret club."
      Second Rule "always lie consistently about the existence of the club."
      Third Rule put away that blackberry that you are twittering with!
      Fourth Rule... Oh never mind you've just revealed our secret organization to the whole world for fifteen minutes of fame haven't you.

    17. Re:May I be the first to say by the_womble · · Score: 1

      The next step from saying that journalists are functionally equivalent to terrorists, is to say that by exposing information the government wants hidden they are helping terrorists. Then they are practically terrorists.

    18. Re:May I be the first to say by eyrieowl · · Score: 1

      I specifically said for a narrowly defined function: actively trying to suss out secret information. There are many other functions which make them very different. Intent matters when determining what, if any, punitive response is required. Intent doesn't matter when figuring out what means people may use to gain access.

    19. Re:May I be the first to say by Insipid+Trunculance · · Score: 1

      I take exception to your first point about gun control. While Guns are indeed necessary and essential where a majority of Populace depends on hunting for their survival I see no reason for a Civilized society to require guns.

      I believe there exists considerable confusion about the concept of freedom.What is freedom?? Is it being free to do anything you wish??Cut that tree down??Forcibly Mate with that Woman because hey she looked good??Bear Arms??

      Or is freedom something that enables you to be free of Fear?Of walking down that street?Of someone breaking into your home ??Of being able to walk down the street / park / Shop / School??

      If your definition of Freedom is the second one;then we require a society with rules.The rule can be a small family rule that i come home before 11 PM and we keep each other informed when leaving house??It can be community based such as not leaving garbage strewn around. It can be more significant such as laws outlawing violence against another person. Whenever a number of organisms come together they need to follow a set of rules.sometimes they are simple and are understood easily.Sometimes they are complex and need to be codified.

      If your definition of freedom is the first one then all i have to say is that Somalia is the free'est place on earth today.The question is: for an Average Somali with a Family,Children and most importantly ,a conscience ;Is he really free??

      --
      Wanted : A Signature.
    20. Re:May I be the first to say by alexo · · Score: 1

      You, sir, are either trolling or have just arrived on this planet.
      For the sake of the discussion I'll assume the second option, but please be advised that my arguments are homo-centric and only pertain to Terra.

      I see no reason for a Civilized society to require guns.

      Please give me a real-world example of what you consider "a Civilized society".

      What is freedom?? Is it being free to do anything you wish??Cut that tree down??Forcibly Mate with that Woman because hey she looked good??Bear Arms??

      Some say that freedom is the right to do anything you wish as long as you don't infringe on others' rights to do the same. However, it is a problematic definition. It helps if you view "freedom" not as a state but as a process that tries to maximize a weighted average of rights.

      Regarding your example: As long as you have a right to bear a penis you'll have the ability to "Forcibly Mate with that Woman". Unless the government installs a microchip which only allows you to achieve erection when copulating with a pre-approved mate but that, you must agree, can hardly be called "freedom", even by you.

      Or is freedom something that enables you to be free of Fear?Of walking down that street?Of someone breaking into your home ??Of being able to walk down the street / park / Shop / School??

      A free society, "civilized" or otherwise, can never guarantee your safety. It can impose undesirable consequences for those that compromise it, but that involves a post-factum action that will not help you much if someone is willing to overlook them.

      Therefore, a free society must not take away your ability to defend yourself and others from the perils that you mentioned.

      If your definition of Freedom is the second one;then we require a society with rules.The rule can be a small family rule that i come home before 11 PM and we keep each other informed when leaving house??It can be community based such as not leaving garbage strewn around. It can be more significant such as laws outlawing violence against another person. Whenever a number of organisms come together they need to follow a set of rules.sometimes they are simple and are understood easily.Sometimes they are complex and need to be codified.

      We currently have such rules in (almost) every country on this planet. Most (all?) have codexes so large and convoluted that no single person can know and understand them all, even if they devote their entire lifetime to the process of studying them. Yet I challenge you to provide one example of a 100% crime-free community that can scale to a reasonable size.

      Disclaimer: Posting from Canada, which I consider not to be "free" in an absolute sense but "free-er" than most alternatives.

    21. Re:May I be the first to say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US? You do realise the story is about the UK right?

  2. Not twisted enough by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Funny

    Declare an inexistent document the ultimate reference on how to stop leaks, put references to it in selected internal documents and even build fake leaks about its existence. As noone will be able to find it, will really work, even against the human factor. You can make a gigantic library of such documents, and put all of them in the unexistent parallel library of congress, where noone will be able to see what countain all those leak-proof documents against sensible matters of national security. Next time someone will try to make problems, will be so sure that will be a full non-existent document about him in that library where everything is afraid of become known is written that will discard that idea, making the world a safer place.

    1. Re:Not twisted enough by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      This Noone must be a real good agent then. If he's on weed, is he then called "High Noone"? And is he in any way related to the German singer "Heinoone"? Or rather to "Nooneien Soong"?

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    2. Re:Not twisted enough by st0nes · · Score: 1

      Noone is the one who left his laptop with the secrets in a taxicab.

      --
      Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis
    3. Re:Not twisted enough by ravenlock · · Score: 1

      Noone knows.

    4. Re:Not twisted enough by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Those documents make a very interesting reading too, though you need a thaumic computer to get at them. It's a pain dealing with all the Out Of Cheese errors though...

    5. Re:Not twisted enough by phantasmagoric · · Score: 1

      If they had been clever, it would have been Joint Services Protocol 404. No one can find THAT file, let alone leak it

    6. Re:Not twisted enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that you, Humpy? I'm not actually reprimanding you, but didn't you forget to tick the A/C box?

    7. Re:Not twisted enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats funny

  3. It's like.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's ironic, almost like rain on your wedding day.

    1. Re:It's like.. by garompeta · · Score: 1

      Overflowed with ownage!

    2. Re:It's like.. by tenco · · Score: 1

      It's real-life comedy.

  4. Britain by gijoel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now with 50% more irony.

    1. Re:Britain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wait, is that irony, or does it just suck? :D

    2. Re:Britain by Jurily · · Score: 0, Troll

      Unfortunately they still don't understand it.

    3. Re:Britain by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Our anti-leak memo leaked.

      That... that's ironic, right?

      Yeah, that's the motherfucking definition of irony.

      (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/3/9/)

    4. Re:Britain by WoRLoKKeD · · Score: 1

      But...But...That makes 150%!

      --
      Immolation is the sincerest form of flattery.
    5. Re:Britain by Abstrackt · · Score: 1

      The ironing is delicious.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    6. Re:Britain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Capt'n, the country cannae take it!"

    7. Re:Britain by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      it's like raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain on your wedding day

    8. Re:Britain by grcumb · · Score: 1

      Now with 50% more irony.

      New tourist slogan:

      BRITAIN - Ironic Yet Rustic

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  5. Outdated spook mentality by 1s44c · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These people are unable to adapt to a world where information can be sent around the world in seconds. They are the stupid, violent policemen who might punch you for looking at them but won't stop crime, terrorism, or anything else because they belong to some WW2 era not the current world.

    They want to play stupid games with hidden codewords so they can pretend they are more important than 'civilians', all they really do is waste resources.

    1. Re:Outdated spook mentality by Dhalka226 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sorry that you struggle to accept the fact that not all information belongs in public view. Perhaps you can explain your position to me while you hand over your bank account numbers and routing codes.

      I hate to shatter your world view, but sometimes keeping things from certain groups of people is the right thing to do and that doesn't change just because one of the entities is a government. Yes, it will be abused. Yes, abuse should be punished. No, that does not mean the concept is without merit or that it's not worth trying.

      Information security is definitely harder in this day and age, and it would be a colossal blunder to rely on mere obfuscation or concealment to protect things. That doesn't mean they don't have their places, nor does it mean that proper use of such in appropriate situations somehow makes them WW2-era codeword-loving spooks. Frankly, suggesting it just makes you sound like an idiot. Couple it with your ever-so-reasonable comments about police beating people but ignoring crime and, well, that cinches it up pretty firmly doesn't it?

    2. Re:Outdated spook mentality by koolfy · · Score: 1

      because they belong to some WW2 era not the current world.

      If you are also referring to the inability to keep an information secret, I should point out that during that WWII, the research on Enigma done by Alan Turing was kept secret for years after the end of the war, including to his close friends or relatives.

      --
      Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
    3. Re:Outdated spook mentality by internettoughguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sorry that you struggle to accept the fact that not all information belongs in public view. Perhaps you can explain your position to me while you hand over your bank account numbers and routing codes.

      Don't be ridiculous, they just admitted they were hiding dirty secrets "political harm or embarrassment", and generally destroying political transparency, and that is corrupt and undemocratic. Also using your bank account analogy their job Is not just to protect their account number, but also to steal yours (they call this information gathering). and all without any public or even legal oversight into their actions.

    4. Re:Outdated spook mentality by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      Also see the Ahmed Zaouicase for some insight into how this lack of legal transparency is so fucked up.

    5. Re:Outdated spook mentality by dword · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of the last released episode of Family Guy (S08E02) when Quagmire finds out about Internet Porn. We should make these people more aware of the fact that there is lots and lots of porn on the Internet and maybe they'll learn a thing or two about it out of "need".

    6. Re:Outdated spook mentality by slarrg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Gee, it seems to me that the banks already give your account information to reporting agencies who will sell it to anyone with the money to buy it. So, despite my desire to keep the information secret, the governemt has already decided that we do not deserve this privacy.

      The problem with government secrecy is that rather than concentrating their efforts on information that is vital to keep secret, they mark almost everything as secret with very little justification. The more pieces of information you claim are secret, the more likely that some of that information will leak through the cracks. Meanwhile the attempt to keep many secrets removes focus from the truly vital pieces which makes any given secret more likely to slip out from divided attention.

      Couple this with the technology and recent government directives and we end up collecting even more public and private information, networking the information together for easy retrieval, and not focusing on the most important secrets which leads to a total mess.

    7. Re:Outdated spook mentality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Duh. You do realise that political embarrassment in the context of the military generally doesn't mean the Permanent Undersecretary having an affair, rather that they're doing things that they'd rather other countries didn't know about (and therefore there is the risk of embarrassment if the other country does find out) or that need to be secret and would simply look incompetent if they leaked, e.g the position of the on-watch SSBN. Or construction details of a particular kind of armour, which would be embarrassing if they became public (incl. terrorist) knowledge.

    8. Re:Outdated spook mentality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      William Gibson's latest comes to mind... 'Spook Country' speaks volumes to how the spook mentality is changing (in the U.S. at least). It's not anything groundbreaking - but I'd recommend it just the same (this is my second read-through and I'm catching things I didn't the first time). Namely - I draw attention to 'Brown', an 'old-age' contracted spook in the book, with his target - the 'IF', part of a small family of very 'new-age' spies. A very interesting read indeed.

    9. Re:Outdated spook mentality by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      I hate to shatter your world view, but sometimes keeping things from certain groups of people is the right thing to do and that doesn't change just because one of the entities is a government. Yes, it will be abused. Yes, abuse should be punished. No, that does not mean the concept is without merit or that it's not worth trying.

      Hiding evidence that western governments have funded racist killers and dictators isn't in anyone's interest. If they have done wrong the evidence should be given to the public so democracy can work its magic. This document is about how to keep dirty secrets private from the very people who funded them, i.e. me and you.

      If people are allowed to hide wrongdoing it will only encourage them to do wrong.

    10. Re:Outdated spook mentality by mpe · · Score: 1

      The problem with government secrecy is that rather than concentrating their efforts on information that is vital to keep secret, they mark almost everything as secret with very little justification. The more pieces of information you claim are secret, the more likely that some of that information will leak through the cracks. Meanwhile the attempt to keep many secrets removes focus from the truly vital pieces which makes any given secret more likely to slip out from divided attention.

      On the other hand you don't want to draw attention to the information you are most worried about leaking. e.g. putting your confidential trash in a bag marked "confidential waste". Thus it can make sense to classify everything as "secret". So long as you don't have different levels of "secret". Once you have multiple levels you run a risk akin to someone not shredding something by mistake, which is less of an issue if the policy is to shred everything (and ditribute between several trash bags).

    11. Re:Outdated spook mentality by slarrg · · Score: 1

      Actually, the best way to keep a secret is to hide its very existence. To use your example, it's much better to have a small bag of trash that no one knows exists and kept hidden until it can be properly destroyed. This is far preferable to mixing your secret stuff in with the rest of your garbage on the curb in a big can marked "secret."

      As far as your assertion that nothing will fail to be processed because you label everything secret, this is just not true. If you only deal with a small amount of data marked secret its much easier to track and ensure that it is properly processed. When people know that much of the "secret" information is mundane, it leads to those people being less diligent in general which is exactly what you don't want to happen with your truly secret data when it's mixed therein. This is exactly why the Department of Homeland Security fails to find serious weapons when auditors try to smuggle them in. Largely because the agents are wasting time looking for proper amounts of liquid and other non-threat items.

    12. Re:Outdated spook mentality by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You do realise that political embarrassment in the context of the military generally doesn't mean the Permanent Undersecretary having an affair,

      You are obviously unfamilar with UK politics. That is indeed the most frequent meaning.

      Other meanings include, but are not limited to, minsters being caught beaking the law they themselves are responsible for enacting, and various assorted high-ups being caught in various forms of large scale corruption, or acts which could reasonably be desribed as treason, while preventing prosecution of the police for killing innocent people. (ver the last 10 years, the police have killed more people in the UK than terrorists have.)

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    13. Re:Outdated spook mentality by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

      Dhalka226 a well crafted speech to the masses. ;-)

      --
      All cows eat grass!
  6. Oh man by Intoblivion · · Score: 2, Funny

    The Irony Department is going to get it for this.

    1. Re:Oh man by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      Come on doesn't anyone else see it? A ginormous 2400 page secret document about preventing leaks is leaked just after Monty Python's 40th anniversary? We're all being meta-trolled by the British government.

      Well played.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  7. 2400 pages? by DamienNightbane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously? Who the fuck would read something that long? How can they expect a document that long to have any effect on anything aside from bureaucracy? If the document had only been two or three pages people probably would have read and understood it.

    Whoever drafted and approved the document should be shot. Same with all the people that write bills that are hundreds or thousands of pages long, and doubly so for the people that vote for and sign them without having ever read them.

    1. Re:2400 pages? by Entropius · · Score: 3, Funny

      I ran the text of the DMCA -- yes, all untold pages of it -- through an advanced semantic data compression algorithm.

      The output was just the string "CITIZENBENDOVER".

    2. Re:2400 pages? by known_ID · · Score: 1

      There is a thing called index....

      --
      Random
    3. Re:2400 pages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt whoever approved this read ALL of the 2400 pages. If i was part of such approval circle Id stick a lewd limerick in there just to see if somebody does read it before signing.

      Second thought, its quite possible somebody did, but damned if I will bother to read all of THAT to find out.

    4. Re:2400 pages? by DamienNightbane · · Score: 1

      There's an even more important thing called tl;dr

    5. Re:2400 pages? by ace123 · · Score: 1

      This strategy to stop leaks is brilliant! While we waste our time reading and discussing this document, we won't have time to notice any other leaked documents.

    6. Re:2400 pages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still far better than 6000-page-long OOXML specification!

    7. Re:2400 pages? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Let me guess: It went something like this (pseudo-code):


      while (!stdin.eof) buf = stdin.read();
      print("CITIZENBENDOVER");

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    8. Re:2400 pages? by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      I could be wrong, but I don't think the intention is for anyone to read all of it. I think in general even people who are Security Checked tend not to have access to all of the document, even though it is only Restricted and SC lets you have regular access to Secret material.

      Doesn't quite excuse 2400 pages, but it does make it seem more like "we've mashed what could have been lots of documents in to one".

    9. Re:2400 pages? by tcdk · · Score: 1

      I stopped on a random page and read six page of nonsense on how to make a security taskforce of some kind - it was mostly concerned with titles of the members...

      --
      TC - My Photos..
    10. Re:2400 pages? by Adambomb · · Score: 5, Funny

      Robert Jordan fans.

      --
      Ice Cream has no bones.
    11. Re:2400 pages? by hAckz0r · · Score: 1

      How do you think WikiLeaks got a hold of it in the first place? Obviously someone fell a sleep reading the fine manual, and someone else came along and lifted it from them. Unfortunately for the reader, he hadn't gotten to that chapter yet. I'm absolutely sure that chapter 2 would have covered that topic thoroughly.

    12. Re:2400 pages? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Who the fuck would read something that long?

      Nobody in the DoJ. Obviously.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    13. Re:2400 pages? by NSN+A392-99-964-5927 · · Score: 1

      I would read the full 2,400 pages. If you want to understand something fully, you have to read all of it, not just read a few pages and think you understand something when clearly you don't! IMHO this is the difference between a professional soldier and one that is amateur and cannot be arsed. Can you be arsed? http://www.arrse.co.uk/ you will find more indepth banter about this topic there than on wikileaks from people who really are in the know :) Regards, NSN

      --
      All cows eat grass!
    14. Re:2400 pages? by damburger · · Score: 1

      I've become convinced that long government/corporate/thinktank documents exist so as to conceal unpleasant information. For example, the notorious 'Rebuilding Americas Defences' document bleats on about nothing for ages before it gets to "wouldn't another Pearl Harbor be awesome" and "lets make ethnically-targeted biological weapons".

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    15. Re:2400 pages? by hughk · · Score: 1

      You have got it wrong.

      The MOD produced this document that apparently nobody was reading. It doesn't really contain much that is contentious, so why not leak it and have everyone reading it.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    16. Re:2400 pages? by andy1307 · · Score: 1

      Who the fuck would read something that long?

      Nobody..Hence the leak.

    17. Re:2400 pages? by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Ow. That hit close to home. I'm re-reading the entire series in prep for the final books. ;D

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    18. Re:2400 pages? by mpe · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Who the fuck would read something that long? How can they expect a document that long to have any effect on anything aside from bureaucracy? If the document had only been two or three pages people probably would have read and understood it.
      Whoever drafted and approved the document should be shot.


      Or maybe their document should be printed out and dropped on them. Which might encourage them to write less or at least get them use duplexing printers :).

    19. Re:2400 pages? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      2400 pages is barely enough for introducing the basic premise. A 2400 page volume is nice and everything but where are the volumes 2 through 13? And, of course, the diminutive (at just 300ish pages) volume 0?

      Seriously, it's no wonder this was leaked. 2400 pages would barely be enough to describe the proper procedures for the handling of braids, much less information security.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    20. Re:2400 pages? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      It's okay... masochism is becoming more and more accepted these days. As such, there's no need to be ashamed of your choice of lifestyle. ;)

    21. Re:2400 pages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Robert Jordan fans.

      Top of the hat to you Sir,
          Would you kindly directly to the pages that have soft porn in it?
        Much obliged!

    22. Re:2400 pages? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Also:

      Terry Goodkind fans. (11 Books)
      Steven Erikson fans. (8 Large books)
      L. Ron Hubbard fans. (10 Books)

      (Jordan had 11)

      and not to be insensitive by Goodkind and Erikson are still alive and writing more in those series.

      Also the later wheel of time books were really hurtin' near the end, I couldn't even force myself to read the last one (just to say I completed the damn thing) as I found it so bad and nauseating. Goodkind also suffers from this to a certain extent, but IMO not as bad. Erikson series in my view is still going very strong, though horribly complicated and convoluted. I am reading Toll the Hounds now, and its been awhile and I am having a hard time remembering who the hell everyone is and what their significance is.

      Hubbard was Hubbard. Though I did like battlefield earth anyway.

      Also as an alternate punchline:

      2400 pages of a government document on how to prevent security leaks sounds more interesting than the wheel of time series anyway!

    23. Re:2400 pages? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      Doesn't quite excuse 2400 pages, but it does make it seem more like "we've mashed what could have been lots of documents in to one".

      So essentially, they're making the document leak process more efficient?

      Instead of having to leak 15 different documents, you can do it all in one fell swoop?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  8. Surprised? Not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we really surprised? This is the country where politicians visit the Prime Minister in Downing Street holding confidential documents face out for the paparazzi to photograph - on more than one occasion

    D'oh.

    1. Re:Surprised? Not. by V4L3R4 · · Score: 1

      Now i'm curious, any examples?

      --
      I've seen the future, stock up on alien-zombie repellent, I kid you not
    2. Re:Surprised? Not. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      this is a fairly googleable event. Example coverage: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004412250_brits14.html

    3. Re:Surprised? Not. by V4L3R4 · · Score: 1

      Why thank you, good sir, I am forever indebted to you

      --
      I've seen the future, stock up on alien-zombie repellent, I kid you not
  9. PDF or ODF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll take mine odf... less err security issues.

  10. Re:It's like.. a good idea by infolation · · Score: 1

    Surely leaking this document is good practice? It's the opposite of 'security through obscurity'. Like peer-review, comments from the wider world would only help harden their leak-prevention methods.

  11. Quick solution by s1lverl0rd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A quick solution would be to just have less secrets. Telling everyone what you are doing isn't that hard - and the foreign spies, hackers and journalists will find out anyway.

    1. Re:Quick solution by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      A quick solution would be to just have less secrets. Telling everyone what you are doing isn't that hard - and the foreign spies, hackers and journalists will find out anyway.

      Creating and looking after secrets is whats keeping half the organization employed.

    2. Re:Quick solution by jimicus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But there's a problem with that.

      You see, s1lverl0rd, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with secrets. Whoâ(TM)s gonna do it? You, s1lverl0rd? They have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for the truth and you curse the government.

      You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that secrets, while tragic, probably save lives. And their existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...

      You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want them on that wall. You need them there.

    3. Re:Quick solution by turing_m · · Score: 1

      You see, s1lverl0rd, we live in a world that has walls.

      If the walls are porous by design, should we care?

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    4. Re:Quick solution by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You see, s1lverl0rd, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with secrets.

      If they had less secrets, they wouldn't need so many walls. And most of those secrets were caused by greed and resulting corruption, or perhaps I have that backwards.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Quick solution by Aceticon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think we all understand the need to for the intelligence services to keep some secrets.

      What most of us are worried about is their focus on protecting information:

      that causes political harm or embarrassment

      - When people find out that MPs submitted expenses to parliament for buying duck-houses or cleaning moats ... that's politically embarrassing.
      - When people find out that sitting ministers are evading taxes ... that's politically embarrassing.
      - When people find out each and every situation of waste, incompetence and pure and simple disregard for the money that we pay in taxes on the part of politicians or people directly nominated or overseen by politicians ... that's politically embarrassing.

      Those leaks are often also politically damaging for those responsible for the problem.

      And here we have the intelligence services' manual for protecting information from the which amongst other things directs them to protect "information that causes political harm or embarrassment" from the prying eyes of such evil people as ... journalists.

      If I didn't already believe that the UK is a corrupt and decadent nation, this would convince me.

    6. Re:Quick solution by ZekoMal · · Score: 1
      Actually, the problem inherent in the system is that you, jimicus, believe that there are truths so terrible that we are better off never knowing them. Looking back at history, the holocaust and countless other genocides were not terrible enough to hide from the common man. So, you believe that our government is hiding something far worse than the genocide of millions...and that it's better that we don't know.

      If you're too weak to handle reality, then someone failed at raising you. Terrible, unspeakable crimes happen every hour, and you honestly believe some crimes to be so horrible that it's better to be lied to about it? Giving them such freedom, meanwhile, means that they can choose to hide commonplace atrocities from us because the common man is afraid of atrocity X

      Or, in layman's terms: Terrorism. Give them all the power they want so long as they make the scary bad men go away, right?

      Grow up.

    7. Re:Quick solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s1lverl0rd: I want the truth!

      jumicus: You can't handle the truth!

    8. Re:Quick solution by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "A quick solution would be to just have less secrets."

      fewer secrets, or
      less secrecy

      Sorry, had to. Just had this conversation with my daughter.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    9. Re:Quick solution by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Its scary when a Tom Cruise movie quote gets rated 3-interesting... Strange things are happening.. We're jolly green giants, walking the earth, with guns!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    10. Re:Quick solution by upside · · Score: 1
      --
      I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
    11. Re:Quick solution by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Even scarier is the replies I'm getting.

    12. Re:Quick solution by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Judging by past secrets that have been declassified, the dark secrets you refer to are mostly mundane details well-known from public sources along with some embarrassing or shameful information whose release would be harmful to a few "important" people. Oh, and I suppose there may be some information legitimately hidden to protect the country, but since foreign intelligence services have detailed knowledge of this information, our confidence that it is protected by secrecy is just as likely a liability as not.

    13. Re:Quick solution by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Are you paraphrasing a quote from Heinrich Himmler or Lavrentiy Beria? Or perheaps Erich Mielke?

      Because, you know, they all would have been very fond of something like that.

    14. Re:Quick solution by jimicus · · Score: 1

      No, I'm shamelessly ripping off A Few Good Men.

      My own opinion is that the world is simply too big and complicated to say that nothing ever needs to be kept secret.

      Though I find it hilarious that a movie - a work of fiction - is considered sufficiently important as to be modded 4 - interesting.

    15. Re:Quick solution by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately for that theory, secrecy is increasingly more unworkable. Even back in the WWII days it already required full-time efforts of organizations like the ones headed by the "gentlemen" I listed .... and it still did not quite work.

      And with technological progress, any attempts at secrecy will by definition require more and more draconian methods to accomplish.

      Which is incidentally the true aim of the vast majority of those who harp on the "need for secrecy" and "protecting ignorant people" and "walls with brave men on them" and similar crap. What they really want is unchecked, unquestionable power over average individuals, ostensibly "to protect them" and "for their own good". They call themselves "defenders" and "protectors" and "Homeland Security". I call them vile, power-hungry, authoritarian jack-asses, far, far worse than the supposed evils they "protect" us from (and not a few of which were outright manufactured by the very same "valiant protectors". See also under: CIA + Al Qeida).

    16. Re:Quick solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, I'm in complete agreement with you about such information as would embarrass politicians.

      What the document is likely referring to is the embarrassment that follows a leak of information that would impact that agency's ability to do its job or the nation's security. A leak has the potential to cause an agency's partners to lose trust, which (especially in intelligence) diminishes their effectiveness by reducing the likelihood that they will receive cooperation. It can also impact their attractiveness to skilled workers, thereby diminishing the quality of their work force, among other things.

      I'm all about exposing waste, fraud, and abuse. In fact, at least in the US every major classified facility has a hotline for reporting such things directly to the politically separate oversight agencies. What this document talks about is when the leak itself causes embarrassment. Do you have confidence in a spy who can't keep secrets?

  12. Yo dawg.. by Datamonstar · · Score: 3, Funny

    I heard you like leaks...

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
    1. Re:Yo dawg.. by harmonise · · Score: 1

      Enough already. This meme has run its course.

      --
      Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
  13. To be followed up by a secondary document.. by Goodl · · Score: 4, Funny

    How not to be seen (Caption on screen: 'HM GOVERNMENT, PUBLIC SERVICE FILM NO. 42 PARA 6. "HOW NOT TO BE SEEN"') Voice Over: In this film we hope to show how not to be seen. This is Mr. E.R. Bradshaw of Napier Court, Black Lion Road London SE5. He can not be seen. Now I am going to ask him to stand up. Mr. Bradshaw will you stand up please In the distance Mr Bradshaw stands up. There is a loud gunshot as Mr Bradshaw is shot in the stomach. He crumples to the ground Voice Over: This demonstrates the value of not being seen.

    --
    I've got some photographs, I'd like to show them to you. Though you don't know the girls You'll recognise the view..
    1. Re:To be followed up by a secondary document.. by Goodl · · Score: 2, Funny

      How is my post in any way informative, it was meant to be titter worthy for the Python crowd

      --
      I've got some photographs, I'd like to show them to you. Though you don't know the girls You'll recognise the view..
  14. WikiLeaks slashdotted by darkob · · Score: 1

    It's already clogged and impossible to get. So in essence MoD may yet find another way to prevent general public from getting the documents. Create rule to "slashdot" web site hosting documents..

    1. Re:WikiLeaks slashdotted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true. At the bottom of the wikileaks page are links to *several* download sites. Not all are dead. I just downloaded it from the first in the list ("fastest (Sweden)") with 140 kb/s. Not blazingly fast, but does the work.

  15. Re:It's like.. a good idea by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    Surely leaking this document is good practice? It's the opposite of 'security through obscurity'. Like peer-review, comments from the wider world would only help harden their leak-prevention methods.

    They can't prevent leaks, they are just too stupid to realize it.

    What they can do is control the media and that alone controls the majority.

  16. Re:It's like.. a good idea by gzipped_tar · · Score: 1

    Security through leakage?

    --
    Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
  17. They got it WRONG - See Plamegate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ministerial Advisers leak.
    Ministers Leak. And at the worst possible moments.

    Not journalists - They have the legal editor in their pay, and FOI requests are fair go. Even the truth sometimes becomes self evident. If anything, leaks have gone down.

    The REAL failure is not getting the Chinese to copy the Banking Failures or do an Enron or even GM bailout. Oh well, they did buy lots of US Shares ;-).

  18. Hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy of a government that keeps invading more and more of citizens privacy in the name of corporate and so called national interests all the while trying to keep their own embarrasing secrets from leaking?

    In my opinion, anything a government would be embarressed about deserves to be leaked to the public.

  19. moded interesting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't handle the truth!

  20. How to find your own arse still secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's only 1100 pages, and suggests using both hands.

  21. Government corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    In both the U.K. and U.S., the government is heavily influenced by people who want war so that they can make easy weapons profits.

  22. You know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like rain on your wedding day, or a green light when you're already late. Maybe some good advice that you just didn't take...

    (obligatory)

  23. tag by shentino · · Score: 1, Funny

    epic fail

  24. in the name of the people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You hit the nail on the head with "in the name of the people." The real root of the problem is that the people give their proxy to someone else and expect that someone else to faithfully execute it. When we all know perfectly well that that almost never, ever happens.

    If the people want the government to be truly representative of themselves, then they need to make it their own. Through open source of course.

  25. No value in leaked doc by xezas · · Score: 1

    One scenario is that this removes any value in the security document....so it's no big issue if it is leaked.

    (yes, there's a difference between method and implementation)

  26. I can't believe people didn't get the reference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    were I not an anonymouse coward, I'd mod you up for "Funny" for the brilliant use of Tom Cruise references

  27. hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It's like rain on you wedding day..."

  28. can't...resist by roggg · · Score: 1

    Fail classified document is fail?

  29. Simple... by FlopEJoe · · Score: 1

    Stop letting congress-critters have the information. When Bush was president, Democrats selectively leaked classified information to harm him. I have no doubt it will happen the other way around now with Obama and the Republicans.

    1. Re:Simple... by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Here in the UK we have something called the Civil Service, whose job it is to leak anything and everything (when MI5 is too busy). Not out of malice, you understand, civil servants are supposed to be incapable of that; I think they do it just to relieve the monotony of the job to be honest. That doesn't mean that the opposition (or even the incumbents) don't leak occasionally but I suspect they don't want to start a war/pissing contest - not one involving anything the public would actually want to know anyway.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
  30. Rubbish, I'm afraid by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1
    Show me a single developed country that does not do the same. The real point about MP's corruption in the UK, by world standards, was how little money was involved. Blair squirrels away a few millions; Berlusconi's companies get fined hundreds of millions and he passes a special law to protect himself; how much did the Bush family benefit from the oil price spike?

    As for pork barrel, we aren't even in the same room as the US, where it is part of business as usual, Alaskan bridges, protection of industries, you name it.

    Assuming you live in the UK, I have a suggestion. We are an overpopulated little island. Why not emigrate somewhere with less political corruption?

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Rubbish, I'm afraid by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Sure, as soon as you can find somewhere. Oh, and side-step the draconian hoops you need to jump through to get a damned passport. Hell, if I were a little richer and my German wasn't so bad I'd be off to Switzerland in a trice: I hear they something that resembles a democracy there.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    2. Re:Rubbish, I'm afraid by Aceticon · · Score: 1

      I've only moved here for the money (before that I was in Holland and before that Portugal) and will stick around as long as I make significant more money here than in countries with more honest political systems (like Holland but not Portugal). I don't have a family so I need not worry about things like having my kids go through state school around here.

      If I didn't pay almost twice more in taxes in Holland than I do in the UK (I'm a freelancer and the dutch tax system penalizes freelancers a lot more than the UK one) I would still be there.

      That said, with the weak pound and the increase in taxes that's coming in the UK (to pay off all the public debt taken to subsidize ... err ... save the banking industry) I'm seriously considering moving again (Switzerland has been sounding more and more attractive of late).

      PS: Also, moving countries costs money - the more stuff you have the more expensive it is.

  31. Thus the MoD's learn a valuable lesson by Dudeman_Jones · · Score: 1

    No spy is as pervasive or unstoppable as the internet.

  32. Learn from history by abbynormal+brain · · Score: 1

    This problem has already been solved (by the Dutch no less). Put your finger in the dike!

    --
    L'esperienza de questa dolce vita (The experience of this sweet life) - Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy
    1. Re:Learn from history by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 1

      But her girlfriend doesn't like it when I do that.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
  33. Rigged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a conspiriacy theoriest, I suggest that it was intended for the document to be leaked, making hackers and spies feel as though they have the government all figured out. IT's ALL LIES!

  34. Mojo Magoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Iiiiiiiiirony!

  35. sacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles.
    Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.

  36. XD by chmxjc · · Score: 1

    Am I alone or did some one else fund this funny.

  37. So you are motivated only by money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those are your words.

    Do you have the intellectual honesty to examine yourself and realize you are every bit as corrupt as those you condemn?

    The only difference is how cheaply you are bought. That is precisely how the truly rich and powerful manipulate and divide the rest of us.

    Oh, and do you think there might be some connection between higher taxes and a more egalitarian and moral society? Of course you don't, because you have been co-opted and corrupted by the rich, and now you are theirs, like a vampire's familiar.