Microsoft Readies Ad-Supported Office Starter 2010

Martin writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica: "Microsoft Office Starter 2010 will be not available for purchase; it will only come pre-loaded on new PCs. It includes basic functionality so users can view, edit, and create documents via Office Word Starter 2010 and Office Excel Starter 2010. Not only are these programs ad-supported, but Microsoft claims they are 'designed for casual Office users,' who apparently will be perfectly fine with reduced-functionality and ad-supported software."

Comments

GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

GOOOOD morning !!

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow wasn't the big shit about Microsoft Office over Star/Open Office the whole idea that you won't be able to use the poweruser features and all the scripting. So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP) when they can fire up a free non-ad infested version of Open Office. All the basic shit is there and it is basically the same, users can export the files to doc and even set it to default to saving as a Microsoft Word doc. Before you reply about difference remember they said casual use, not corporate office use. If it wasn't for being the incumbent Operating System, Microsoft would have no standing with this. I wonder if they can even be construed as them manipulating their monopoly to enhance their Office productivity market as a matter of curiosity. Whether or not it does, this looks like a waste of time. I guess it is better than Microsoft Works.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

when I read that, there was only one thing I could say: niggers.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[mustafap]

>So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP)

Unfortunately, they will use it because it is there, installed on their machine.

Still, at least this new version of office really will stink, and will make Open Office look even better.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[purpledinoz]

So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP) when they can fire up a free non-ad infested version of Open Office.

Because everyone is already familiar with Word and Excel, and it's more painful to switch to Open Office than to see some ads. Speaking from experience, switching to Open Office is quite annoying if you're used to Word and Excel. (Although it is more annoying to switch to Office 2007 from Office 2003, with that stupid ribbon interface).

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[the_womble]

In my experience most people barely notice the difference.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[M-RES]

Heh, I think you argued yourself into redundancy when you noticed how bad the ribbon effect was! ;)

My in-laws didn't want to fork out the hundreds of for the full blown version of Office. Had something like this existed then, they may have used it out-of-the-box. As it was, at the time I gave them the choice - use an illicit copy of Office (which they weren't comfortable with) or use a FREE and legal Office replacement (which they weren't even aware was available).

The opted for the free and legal route and now use NeoOffice quite comfortably. The 'pain' of 'switching' was less than the pain of the pricetag for Office, although to be honest there was no real switch involved with it being a fresh install, and even if there was I think the average user is having to learn to 'switch' every time a new version of MSOffice is released because MS in their wisdom keep changing the interface dramatically. So simply sidestepping to a competitor version with at least the level of functionality the vast majority of users need is actually quite easy.

I think this 'free' pre-bundled Office Lite may have quite an impact on the uptake of OOo though. If only because there'll be fewer non-tech users buying a PC without Office pre-installed. At that point they usually turn to their 'techie friend' for help, whereupon their friend may suggest OOo like I did. People like free - if it's pre-installed it's free, yet OOo is also free. People like easy too - pre-installed means no extra work, installing OOo means 5 minutes of work which isn't QUITE as a easy... shame, but OOo loses on those odds I fear.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Eraesr]

In my experience most people have never even heard about Open Office and will never even bother looking for an alternative to MS Office.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here comes the anecdote waving contest, I am now satisfied.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[ocularsinister]

Actually, everyone is familiar with Office 2003 - Office 2007 is a massive UI change, OpenOffice is not. I think my Mum would find the Office 2003 -> OpenOffice transition much easier than Office 2003 -> Office 2007. Heck, even I found myself wasting so much time finding functionality I was familiar with in old versions of Office that I downloaded OpenOffice to use instead!

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[FireFury03]

The 'pain' of 'switching' was less than the pain of the pricetag for Office

In my experience, the "pain" of switching from MS Office to a non-MS office suite tends to be a bit less than the pain pain of upgrading from one version of MS Office to another anyway - OOo is certainly less "different" than some versions of MS Office.

Unfortunately, it does seem that people are more accepting of the MS-inspired pain though - maybe that has something to do with the feeling that upgrading MS Office is something that has to be done so the pain must be endured, whereas switching to an alternative is a choice, so there is an easy way to avoid that pain (by not switching). Most people take a very short-term view and avoid the immediate hassle, even if it might mean more hassle in the future.

I think this 'free' pre-bundled Office Lite may have quite an impact on the uptake of OOo though. If only because there'll be fewer non-tech users buying a PC without Office pre-installed. At that point they usually turn to their 'techie friend' for help, whereupon their friend may suggest OOo like I did.

I'm not convinced - PCs have traditionally come with *some* crappy office suite installed (e.g. MS Works). I'm not sure this is going to change anything.

People like free - if it's pre-installed it's free, yet OOo is also free. People like easy too - pre-installed means no extra work, installing OOo means 5 minutes of work which isn't QUITE as a easy... shame, but OOo loses on those odds I fear.

I suppose a lot will depend on what the PC manufacturers decide to bundle with the machines. Sadly, I suspect they will bundle the MS product, just because "MS Office" is a brand that people recognise (even if it happens to have "(crap edition)" after it). If OEMs were going to start bundling OOo, I suspect they might've done it before now - I can't think of an especially good reason for them to have been bundling MS Works instead of OOo for years, other than for the ability to use the MS brand and _maybe_ because using OOo might undercut some of their MS Office sales.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[nizo]

In my experience, people who say they are satisfied rarely are.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[petermgreen]

I've often wondered if MS gives PC manufacturers some kind of kickback for bundling thier sucky office products (works/office trial/this new crippled office product) in the hope that it will net them sales for the full version.

Another reason I can think of is that some manfuacturers (notablly dell) offer office as a build time option. Therefore it is probablly in thier interests not to open peoples eyes to the existance of openoffice.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[LordAndrewSama]

In my experience, that's what she says :-(

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[PFI_Optix]

In my experience, we used StarOffice across an entire school district for years and were plagued with compatibility problems with other schools. Also, Star/OOo lacks some very useful interface features compared even to Office 2000. We still have Star installed on our images to support old documents, but Office 2007 has greatly reduced our incoming support requests. It actually works *better*, as much as I hate to admit it.

I'm the resident FOSS advocate at the schools. I'm the one who has pushed Linux acceptance through on a limited basis and kept the schools from paying out thousands for various applications when there were alternatives. Yet I must concede that OOo and Star simply are not "there" when compared with Office.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Urza9814]

Maybe for a power user it's annoying to switch...for someone like myself who's just using it to type up papers and such, there is absolutely no difference. I doubt the users that this adware office is aimed at will have any trouble switching to OOo.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dead on. Open Office frames are a pain in the a**.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[M-RES]

I think you're onto something there. Although from memory, many of the Office 30 day Trial versions give you the option to 'upgrade' to the full version at the end of the trial period. Which means a direct 'download' sale from MS and not necessarily a box-off-the-shelf sale for a 3rd party retailer. I suppose if it establishes lock-in for the customer then it increases the chances of the retailer making that sale long term rather than short term.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow wasn't the big shit about Microsoft Office over Star/Open Office the whole idea that you won't be able to use the poweruser features and all the scripting. So why should the casual user deal with ads in something that will be feature crippled and basically "consumer" branded (read CRAP) when they can fire up a free non-ad infested version of Open Office. All the basic shit is there and it is basically the same, users can export the files to doc and even set it to default to saving as a Microsoft Word doc. Before you reply about difference remember they said casual use, not corporate office use. If it wasn't for being the incumbent Operating System, Microsoft would have no standing with this. I wonder if they can even be construed as them manipulating their monopoly to enhance their Office productivity market as a matter of curiosity. Whether or not it does, this looks like a waste of time. I guess it is better than Microsoft Works.

Not a bad observation at all. Here's the question - if you had taken the same tone and used the same sort of fair criticism, but directed it at Open Office's shortcomings - don't you think your post would be modded "-1 Troll"?

I'm not knocking the parent post here, I'm just saying change the target of that exact post to Open Office and it a 4-point swing.

Moderators - please keep in mind that all critcism isn't trolling.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[cerberusss]

In my experience, we used StarOffice across an entire school district for years and were plagued with compatibility problems with other schools. Also, Star/OOo lacks some very useful interface features compared even to Office 2000. [...] OOo and Star simply are not "there" when compared with Office.

It sounds like you're saying that OOo/StarOffice compatibility with MS Office is not "there", not the complete package per se.

This might sound pedantic, but I think it's an important distinction.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is being a nigger a bad thing? They get Nobel Peace prizes for being very tanned.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Turiko]

the ribbon interface was a major hit for ms office, i think. It's the thing that made me switch...

I've used the ribbon interface, and it's crap. Give the menu's that don't hide all the features behind unecessary bling, and you've got a good program.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[westlake]

I've often wondered if MS gives PC manufacturers some kind of kickback for bundling thier sucky office products

Microsoft's "sucky" office products sell very, very well: Amazon Bestsellers In Business &Software [Updated Hourly]

1 Office Home & Student 2007. 1020 Days in the top 100.
3 Office Home & Student 2008 Mac. 705 Days.
6 Outlook 2007. 1018 Days.
17 Small Business Upgrade 2007. 1003 Days
18 Professional Full Version 2007. 593 Days
23 Standard Full Version 2007. 1008 Days
24 Small Business Full Version 2077. 577 Days
25 MS Works 9. 796 Days
26 Office Pro Academic 2007. 91 days
31 Office Standard Upgrade 2007. 1017 Days
36 One Note 2007. 1003 Days
37 Publisher 2007. 1011 Days
41 Outlook 2007 with Contact Manager. 606 Days
43 Project Standard 2007. 972 Days
44 Office Ultimate 2007. Full Version 824 Days
45 Access 2007. 979 Days 47 Office 2008. Mac 662 Days

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[imakemusic]

That's what I expected when I moved into my latest job. Turns out that they have heard of it, they just don't use it because it doesn't work as well and generally messed up the format of whatever they opened.

They will occasionally use it if they get obscure file that word won't open though.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[RAMMS EIN]

``Unfortunately, it does seem that people are more accepting of the MS-inspired pain though''

It's the fear. If it has "Microsoft" on it, it's known and trusted. If it is "alternative", it is unknown and scary. It's not about the actual features of the product. It's about the fear of "What am I getting myself into?"

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[Knitebane]

And Ford sold 200,000+ Pintos a year. The moral is: Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[drtsystems]

Except that NeoOffice sucks. It takes hours to load, and the interface feels like I'm running it on a PII 300mhz, not a core duo. Office 2004 through rosetta runs better than NeoOffice.

Re:GOOD MORNING SLASHDOT !!

[the Gray Mouser]

It may be pedantic, but MS Office is the de facto standard for word processessing, spreadsheets, etc...

If a program can't open and view Office files correctly, than that app is not standards compliant and is not yet ready for prime time. All the talk in the world about "moving targets" doesn't change that. Now how compliant Open Office is depends on what files you need to view. If the people you deal with also use open office or older versions of MS office, then you'll be good to go.

Does it come with a dildo?

[Anonymous Coward]

So users could also fuck themselves in the ass while using this?

Re:Does it come with a dildo?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the few times that I really hope this comment isn't downmodded...

Re:Does it come with a dildo?

[Anonymous Coward]

no, you're thinking of linux. they're the real dick sucking faggots. sucking their shit off the dicks of other faggots.

Re:Does it come with a dildo?

[Anonymous Coward]

for reals, this is +6 funny

*readies his version of IDA*

[kvezach]

You think the ads will last long? Bring it on.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[ozmanjusri]

You think the ads will last long? Bring it on.

Have you tried Office 10?

Unless you're desperate to stick with Microsoft products or are part of a large organisation which can use the collaboration features, there's better options out there. It's a huge, slow, clumsy tool, not something that welcomes casual use.

I'd suggest you get hold of the tech preview and see for yourself.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

What, a Beta product that's slow, clumsy and not feature complete!? Inconceivable. Let's wait for the final build before you start omgwtftrashing MS.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[ozmanjusri]

Let's wait for the final build before you start omgwtftrashing MS.

Oooooh, poor baby MS. Did I hurt their widdle feelings now? Should we refrain from commenting on ANY beta software? Anyway, it's not just me that's panning it.
Stephen Frank said

I’ve been a recreational and professional computer user for, what, 25 years, and I can’t make heads or tails of the user interface on this Office 2010 preview...
Seriously, go look at this thing.

Or how about Scott Feldstein

Sweet jebus noooo!
Why does Office have to look like you're piloting the friggin' space shuttle? .

FWIW, my prediction is that Office 2010 will be the Vista of MS Office suites.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

A Final product from MS that's slow, clumsy and not feature complete is not all that inconceivable either.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

cant you just install the latest mvp hosts file and just see white boxes in where the ads are supposta be? i use oct. 08, 2009 version of that and 99.9% of the ads are now white space... not to mention i use adblock plus in firefox....

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[deniable]

Office 10, that's so 2002. I think you mean Office 13.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

If only Microsoft had a product called Fire, then I might be into these type of apps.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

have you used the "better options" OOo is larger and slower than any piece of software i have ever known, visually unappealing and the least intuitive interface ever... should everyone use it because its open sourced? no, because it being open sourced doesnt make it better, it just makes it messy...

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[im_thatoneguy]

Huge, Slow, Clumsy? Have YOU tried it?

Minimize the Ribbon and rely on the contextual menu that comes up when you highlight text and the interface is as small as notepad.

It takes up almost exactly 300MB of space. Which is comparable or smaller than OpenOffice.

I don't know what part of it you find slow. On every system I've run it on, even my pretty old laptop it seems snappy and responsive.

And if Office10 Home and Student is priced similar to Office 2007 then you'll probably be able to find a copy priced at around $50-$70.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

You think the ads will last long? Bring it on.

Have you tried Office 10?

Unless you're desperate to stick with Microsoft products or are part of a large organisation which can use the collaboration features, there's better options out there. It's a huge, slow, clumsy tool, not something that welcomes casual use.

I'd suggest you get hold of the tech preview and see for yourself.

In other words... "I'll tell you why it's shitty, and then I'll suggest you try it!"

You know that doesn't make sense, right?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[xtracto]

*readies his version of IDA*

IDA?? OllyDbg is all I need. why wait until you get all the asm listing just attach, NOP-NOP-NOP JNZ->JZ and you are done.

By the way, the news here I think is that they are doing this to replace Microsoft Works. I think that will certainly piss off people from some industries (I think lawyers use that no?).

I agree with the OpenOffice advertisement haha.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[im_thatoneguy]

Wow two whole completely random people on the internet who nobody has heard of think it's confusing?! It's a total disaster!

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Richard_at_work]

Why not simply use something else if you aren't willing to pay the going price? There seems to be an automatic reaction to ads - block them at all cost! Have you ever considered why ads are used? Yes, on some web pages its blatant cashing in, as many ads as possible and three lines of content, and those websites never see my custom at all. However, in a lot of cases the site or facility is worth having, and worth rewarding. I may never click on an advert, but I am more than willing to let them show me adverts in the offchance that one may catch my interest and send a few pennies their way.

Your approach is little more than theft - your immediate reaction is to see how you can take what is offered, but not at the offered price. So I ask you again, why not use something else?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[NickFortune]

Minimize the Ribbon and rely on the contextual menu that comes up when you highlight text and the interface is as small as notepad.

Alas, I doubt they'll let you minimise the advertisement pane.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[PCM2]

Speaking as one who HAS tried Office 10 -- and many of the alternatives -- I'd love to hear you explain what you're talking about.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[rastilin]

Neither is a revolutionary piece of software that re-sets the benchmark for everything to come and blasts all competition into dust. I know you're working towards a point, but I just don't see what that point is.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[node 3]

Neither is a revolutionary piece of software that re-sets the benchmark for everything to come and blasts all competition into dust.

I noticed you were careful not to include two of the words the person you were replying to used: From MS.

I think your decision was very well made.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[nizo]

Just wait until the ads get hacked, or the DOJ makes them advertise Linux/OpenOffice as part of a settlement.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[FireFury03]

Office 10, that's so 2002. I think you mean Office 13.

Is that the one that turns into a disaster shortly after launch, but then they manage to rescue it whilst completely missing the mission objective? :)

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

Your approach is little more than theft ...

Yes, in the same way that it's 'little more than theft' if you leave the room to take a whizz while watching an ad-supported TV program. i.e. nothing like theft at all.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel epic fail coming soon to MS as the marketing pin heads die off in a blind rage of anti MS software support, kill them for me daddy. Burn in hell shitheads, OPEN OFFICE FOR THE WIN.

don't forget to die.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[rastilin]

I noticed you were careful not to include two of the words the person you were replying to used: From MS.

Ooh, burn. Well spotted.

So I'm going to do it now. "Neither is a revolutionary piece of software that re-sets the benchmark for everything to come and blasts all competition into dust all that strange coming from Microsoft."

I also want to ante up with the following.

It's totally understandable why people would say that OpenOffice fails because of Microsoft's plot. Otherwise they would have to admit that it (OpenOffice) kind of sucks in comparison.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

But Dokken does not like chicken. Don't you feel compelled to watch them unleash something on the chicken, the likes of which it has never seen?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[erroneus]

OO.o does not suck. It works just fine for lots of people and probably the vast majority of people. Their move to supporting the ribbon bar in the UI is a bit questionable, but as far as features and the like, I don't see too many things lacking. (I do like the text box object I can have in MS Word... can't figure out how to do that in OO.o yet) but for the most part, OO.o is feature and function complete. Can you use OO.o to support various VBA apps or MS Office addons? No. And if you need those, there's no substitute for MS Office.

But if you're spreading sheets or writing words, OO.o is great. I haven't played with the presentation app lately and I find it is adequate but not quite powerpoint compatible where some details are concerned and a presentation I built with some background music playing over multiple slides proved impossible at the time so I ended up animating a single slide to make it look like slide transitions. (More than one way to skin a cat ya know) This would have been a lot easier in PowerPoint.

OpenOffice does not "fail."

[RANT] Frankly, I am getting tired of this ridiculous "pass/FAIL" paradigm that people have been fashionably asserting lately. Are you still wearing a goatee too? I can accept that women want to be fashionable and trendy, but as far as I'm concerned "real men" don't fall for trendy/fashionable anything. This includes hair styling (facial or otherwise), linguistic tricks, styles and fads, ridiculous clothing and probably a lot more. I'm 41 years old at present. Even as a teenager, I recognized there was this ridiculous pattern of trend/fashion following that invariably results in embarrassment or humiliation when looking back in time. I have never seen anyone embarrassed from looking or behaving basically normally and independently of any particular fad or fashion. I find that people who copy and mimic future-embarrassing words, buzz-words, expressions, hair, facial hair or clothing show a distinct desire to be unique or individual but continually do so by making external changes to themselves that are typically copying other people trying to do the same thing. (Think "goth kids" who all end up looking and acting the same trying to be unlike everyone else.) And it's not like it's hard to identify those changes or things that have the property of longevity and true quality. Blue jeans and t-shirts, classic rock from the 60s and 70s that was new when I heard it and is still being played by kids today, natural hair on the head and on the face and generally accepted and understood vocabulary.

Very few linguistic expressions stand the test of time, but there are some. "OK" and "cool" are two notable examples. "Bad" and "sick" are two examples that are essentially the same thing tried where "bad" isn't used any longer and "sick" is just a repeat of the same stupidity. Any words modified with -izzle or any similar word modification patterns are simply obvious when it comes to expectation of short life and future embarrassment for the people who speak that way. And to be clear, any linguistic fads born of pop cultures that the vast majority of people find uncomfortable or even offensive are destined to die and embarrass the adopter. The "fail" assertion has potential to enjoy some longevity, but it is ultimately so hard-lined and offensive that it will "fail" in the future as well as many of the things judged as "fail" are quite subjective to one's point of view, scope of need/use/knowledge/experience and presumes to assert that in addition to something being inadequate, that the person who is asserting it is somehow the ultimate authority in rendering such a judgement and makes the person asserting appear to be a pushy asshole.

Change and evolution are facts of life and human existence. (We somehow managed to drop all the "thee"s and "thou"s over time which I hold was probably for the best as now the only times we hear it are in Shakespeare plays and when "god" speaks through the bible... apparently "god" hasn't advanced too f

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[characterZer0]

No. They'll just have a picture of some fat guy sitting in his mom's basement in his underpants with a speech bubble that says "All us hackers use OpenOffice.org! It is so 1337!".

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[serveto]

And where are the ads coming from? Are MS going to pay for my 3G bandwidth they've stolen?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[mftb]

Both of them have the same initials, too.
I think maybe somebody's random name generator has a broken seed.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Richard_at_work]

Except its completely different as there is a deliberate intention here to take the product without payment, which I certainly classify as theft.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Richard_at_work]

Don't use the product then, thats part of the required payment. You people really sicken me - trying every excuse in the book to justify immoral actions.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[cerberusss]

*readies his version of IDA*

For those who don't know what IDA is: it's a disassembler and debugger.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Abcd1234]

Except its completely different as there is a deliberate intention here to take the product without payment

Which is, again, absolutely no different than walking away from your TV while an ad is playing or, god forbid, fast forwarding through the ads on a PVR.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[serveto]

Rubbish, there’s no required payment. Microsoft choose to load this on people's PCs whether the customers want it or not. There's no contract between the customers and MS for this software. You buy the PC, you do what you want with, it's called ownership. I don't ask people to put ads on websites and I block them; I'm not morally obliged to read them.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Tablizer]

Between the "low-rider" aspect-ratio of new monitors, the ribbon, and the ads, there's only gonna be a few inches left for the document itself. It'll be just like our little slashdot window when the boss is around.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[drinkypoo]

Shrinkwrap EULAs are not a contract and in any case a contract cannot take away your rights. First Sale law gives you the right to modify stuff and even re-sell it if you like, so long as you don't claim otherwise and you transfer all copies in the case of media (that part comes from the Audio Home Recording Act.) Theft requires that someone is deprived of something, otherwise it's something else. There is such a thing as theft of services, in which case someone is deprived of time, consumables, runtime hours or similar.

In short, it's really hard to argue that someone should legally be forced to view ads. And many of us are more than willing to live in a world in which everything ad-supported fails. I argue that if it has to be ad-supported, then it's probably not that valuable. If slashdot disappeared tomorrow and deprived me of my favorite text-interface roleplaying game I would be sad, but I would find some other place to argue. I've long since given up on broadcast radio and television, and I don't subscribe to or even generally purchase any periodicals, so I'm not sure what I would really be missing without it. I'm not really pleased with the capitalistic internet that we've ended up with; I envisioned a more peer-to-peer future where we could all run websites and no one site would have to be so important, save perhaps for crawlers. This has been limited by the telcos more than technology, although both have played a part.

In short, you do not have a right to profit, and I have a right to modify things as I like. Remember cuecat? heh heh

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Chickan]

Surprisingly I actually like Office 2010 tech preview. I initially hated Office 2007, but after using them for some time it has grown on me. The ribbon isn't half bad once you get used to it. Making graphs in excel is definitely much nicer now. I wish the world would switch to OO or other FOSS, but it won't. My company and my school both use MS Office, so thats what I use. Its a PIA to transfer documents back and forth, the formatting always gets screwed up, just not worth it.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[defireman]

Think web clips in Gmail for Office - where they will scan your word documents and serve up links pertaining to pancake batter.

Will it accept adblock?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[shutdown -p now]

I’ve been a recreational and professional computer user for, what, 25 years, and I can’t make heads or tails of the user interface on this Office 2010 preview...
Seriously, go look at this thing.

I've seen Office 2010. Its UI is not in any major way different from the one in 2007. You still have the same Ribbon, and things are generally where they were. Ribbon in Outlook is new, but I like it.

Oh, and it's not a beta. There's no Office 2010 beta yet, it's a "technical preview" (in MS parlance this means "alpha", effectively), which means that it is not even feature complete, much less optimized. Heck, it has half of the buttons on Ribbon using the "to be done" red dot icon!

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

Your example misses the ads by chance, which would be identical to writing something, and getting up to go to the bathroom while writing your paper.

Actively blocking the ads would be completely different and more akin to having a middle man blocking all ads, while you are sitting there watching the TV, and continuing the show without interruption.

I don't want to use ad supported Office, but I can at least see past some blind hatred.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[el_chicano]

My company and my school both use MS Office, so thats what I use. Its a PIA to transfer documents back and forth, the formatting always gets screwed up, just not worth it.

Maybe its just me but I would prefer to read a poorly-formatted article with actual content in it rather than a nicely-formatted one containing no content at all. As far as your brain goes, the first is a good meal and the second is only empty calories.

My preferred way of making documents? I use SSH to tunnel to a VNC session running on a server and then use OpenOffice on the server. Any Windows machine I use only needs a copy of puTTY and VNCviewer available before I can get to work.

The nice thing about doing it this way is that all my documents remain on the server. To me the big PIA is having to move documents between computers at work, school and home in order to work on those documents in those different places. Using OpenOffice on the server means no more unnecessary moving of the documents from computer to computer.

Another thing I like is how VNC saves the state of your session. You can be in the middle of a working on a document and then find out you need to go to another location. You close the vncviewer and the next time you open up the vncviewer again you will be where you last left off.

One disadvantage is that in order to access your documents you have to be on a computer connected to a network. I find that these days whenever I am at work or at school it is rare to find a non-network-connected PC. If I need to get on the network while away from home I can always go to a Starbucks and grab a cup of coffee while connecting to the network from there.

Another downside is that printing is a pain. I haven't bothered to set up remote printing yet, that is on my to-do list. If I need to distribute a document I will usually export it to a PDF file and send that out as an email attachment. PDF is a good format to send to others because everyone has a PDF viewer.

I also use Open Office on my only Windows machine, a Vista laptop. I do not want to run any bootleg software nor do I want to pay for a copy of MS Office. On the most part Open Office under both Linux and Windows works well for me on a day-to-day basis.

I have had only minor formatting problems with documents when transferring files between computers if they have been saved in the older Word 97/2000 format. Unless you are doing some funky document formatting the older Word format should also work reasonably well for you.

I have been receiving more .docx files these days, the odf-converter-integrator plug-in really helps as far as allowing me to import those files into Open Office. If I need to work on those documents I will convert them into the older Word 97/2000 format before working on them.

If your formatting is constantly having problems then I suggest you look into using styles to format your document. If you use a style sheet to define the look of your document it will convert more cleanly which means fewer problems with the formatting breaking on you.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

Well said. You get to be my friend.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

Office 10, that's so 2002. I think you mean Office 13.

Actually he means Office 14. They skipped 13 for some reason.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that was pretty pathetic.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

1999 called and they want their slow piece of shit version of Staroffice (It had a friggin START menu) recalled.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[infinityxi]

Then uninstall the cunt of a program and use something else like Abiword. Staroffice, Open Office, or even Wordpad. Sure you can block the ads but my question is why even go through that trouble. I mean if you are willing to block the ads why not just pirate the damn full version then. I think it's just ridiculous to block the ads when you have so many other alternatives, legal or otherwise, that will get you a full complete product with none of the bullshit you do not want.

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Risen888]

Your example misses the ads by chance

I'm sitting here at home watching the Twins/Yankees ALDS Game 2 right now (which the Twins are winning, w00t!), and there was no chance involved in me waiting for the inning to end before I got up for a cigarette.

Am I a thief too?

Re:*readies his version of IDA*

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely, the user will dump the Office 10 Starter and go to OpenOffice, especially after checking the price of the real edition. Most purchasers of new PCs that have Office already loaded when they buy feel they have to 'get their money's worth' before they dump MS Office, but with this 'erzats Office' there will be no incentive to keep it or even upgrade.

Just what I've always wanted...

[sitarlo]

A version of Office with commercials! Woot! Seriously, apps I'll never need or use, and links I'll never click. What a waste of time, energy, and resources.

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[Anonymous Coward]

But these commercials are special - they help you concentrate and give you ideas by showing ads relevant to your document and the items on your desktop. It's a win/win.

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[icebike]

Relevant to my document?

Typos and all?

We've been this way before:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/Clippy-letter.PNG

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[im_thatoneguy]

He says as he posts on an ad supported website...

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[js_sebastian]

He says as he posts on an ad supported website...

There are ads on the internet? I forgot about that...

(this post was enabled by firefox+adblock)

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[AliasMarlowe]

He says as he posts on an ad supported website...

Perhaps he checked the "Ads disabled" box up in the top right of the page...

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[smoker2]

Which doesn't prevent the site showing ads. It did for a while then they showed up again.

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

He says as he posts on an ad supported website...

Perhaps he checked the "Ads disabled" box up in the top right of the page...

And that made Slashdot not-ad-supported?

Re:Just what I've always wanted...

[Anonymous Coward]

My question is that if they want to supply a straight, basic word program... why wouldn't people just use Wordpad? As for a basic excel program, I'm sure they could come up with something as basic as Wordpad, but for Excel.

But then again, then they wouldn't get to spamvertise to people, leaving a permanant drain on bandwidth for streaming ads, slowing down the system when the ad server locks up, all to make a few extra bucks.

It's ad supported?

[maxwell demon]

Well, let's buy ad space on it, and then advertise for Open Office.org!

Re:It's ad supported?

[hoskeri]

I think its really sad that microsoft can basically ignore the existence of openoffice.org even after all these years.

Re:It's ad supported?

[onefriedrice]

What makes you say MS is ignoring openoffice? I just assumed this new cheapo version of Office is in direct response to the rise again of viable alternatives such as openoffice and Google Docs.

Re:It's ad supported?

[Animaether]

Who says they're ignoring it?

But even if they were - perhaps there's some validation for that. After all, as per.. http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1398133&cid=29689373 ..it's entirely more likely that people who grow tired of the ads would just download a patch to remove the ad functionality (not counting the people who would actually -buy- Office, of course).

Re:It's ad supported?

[the33mhz]

Yes! OpenOffice.org for the win.

Re:It's ad supported?

[wvmarle]

This seems to be MS' direct answer to OOo.

OOo is widely seen as interesting alternative to Office, but a major complaint is "limited functionality". Now personally I wouldn't know what's lacking - collaboration maybe but that's for big organisations, not for me. Now MS releases an Office with "limited functionality", that sounds very much like OOo.

Interesting parts are of course what functionality is gone, and how it is ad-supported. If there's a blinking moving ad taking up 20% of your screen that's horrible of course. If it is text ads on the side that's much more manageable.

And it probably won't be too hard to disable the ads: they are surely downloaded over the Internet so disconnecting the computer from the network will do already. Otherwise some rules in the firewall or some entries in the hosts file will do.

And I smell food for another anti-trust law suit if they are going to bundle it by default with Windows. Unless they also install alternatives but that's not too likely.

Re:It's ad supported?

[Anonymous Coward]

What it's lacking is MS compatible scripting and an exchange capable PIM like outlook. Evolution would be perfect for that, but the Windows version of Evolution is clunky, buggy and slow. Then there are the nice little wizards that make it quicker to create a birthday card or whatever. Apart from that oOOo is a viable alternative, however given the choice most users would go for MS Office because the look and feel is better.

Re:It's ad supported?

[Pieroxy]

Right on spot. But now there's one more reason to switch to OO.org! Who wants to see blinking flashing ads while composing a document?

No matter what they do, they always end up helping the competition every time they try to compete with it. They are really ridiculous in this matter. The only thing they know how to do is to market their crap using their already established monopolies as a leverage tool.

Oh well...

Re:It's ad supported?

[Pieroxy]

Who says they're ignoring it?

The GP.

Re:It's ad supported?

[wvmarle]

What it's lacking is MS compatible scripting

I estimate about 99.9% of the users doesn't know that MS Office supports scripting or how to use it. This is very much an enterprise-option where some IT person produces templates that includes such scripting. So for most users this is a non-issue.

and an exchange capable PIM like outlook.

Again enterprise-level stuff. Not for the home users or small businesses.

And whether the "look and feel is better" that is usually not as much a matter of preference but a matter of familiarity. Most users are familiar with MS Office already. OOo is different. For many users that is an issue.

Re:It's ad supported?

[SeaFox]

So... their response to a free, open source office suite offering file format compatibility with their own business-standard office suite is to release a crippled version of two of their programs (the two that OpenOffice does the best job of replacing I think) and include advertising in them?

Wow. What a strategy.

Now those users can do less than the fully featured product OR the free alternative AND watch ads while they do it.

I'm sure Microsoft will beat back the OSS onslaught when they tempt consumers with this offer.

Re:It's ad supported?

[gbjbaanb]

They are ignoring OO.o, this is solely a reaction to Google Docs. See, Microsoft knows its traditional business models of selling bucketloads of Office is on the way out, and they *need* an opportunity for growth (or the shareholders will get even more pissed at them, and Ballmer will not get his bonus... well, won't get as big a bonus as he wants).

So, they see Google just doing what Google does, and making some money from adverts and they see the Google shareprice, ans they think... lets combine the 'cloud', adverts and MS Office and the combination will of course be the perfect storm of money making wonderment. Which, of course, it won't be.

If Google sold Docs so you could run it on a VM inside your corporate firewall, I think they'd destroy the market for Office. Presumably MS are working on this (Sharepoint services for Office or somesuch) that will be taken up, but this current offering is just going to be a footnote on the internet like all the non-Messenger Live tools.

Re:It's ad supported?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use iWorks you insensitive clod... Honestly, for $79 it is a pretty good package (OpenOffice is the way for power users still I suppose).

Re:It's ad supported?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet the ads panel will be removable. It only purpose it to kill OO the same way they killed Netscape.. Only they now need a pretext for preloading. Hey! Ad-supported sound like a good business model!

Re:It's ad supported?

[CastrTroy]

I think that if they offered a free version, with very few features, they could corner the market. Almost everyone wants MS Office compatibility. So why not give them that, in a cut down version. Give them basic formatting, tables, images, fonts, that kind of stuff, but take out change tracking, macros, and all the other advanced features that most home users don't care about, and they could have something. Basically Wordpad with tables and spell check. That's all most people need.

Re:It's ad supported?

[CastrTroy]

A better idea than a VM would be a similar thing to their search applicance. Take a box, (or 2 or 3 for load and redundancy) and shove them in your datacenter, and you automatically have an inhouse solution that just works.

Re:It's ad supported?

[CastrTroy]

Very true. If you asked most people about scripting and word processing, they would probably think you were talking about movie or play scripts, and would have no idea what scripting was in reference to computers, or programming inside a word processor.

Re:It's ad supported?

[gbjbaanb]

That's exactly what I was thinking of, but a VM image would be cheaper and more portable to ship to the customer.

Re:It's ad supported?

[Tablizer]

Hurry, we need to put ads in OpenOffice.org to compete!

Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux users get lots of pussy. You are just jealous, M$/App|e fanboi.

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

no. you have that wrong. linux users are pussies. that's what you meant to say.

btw: how are you liking that big dick in your ass?

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

No... it's definitely my big dick in my lady's tight pussy. You fucking M$/App|e fags can copulate with a bear trap and die.

Re:Actually...

[M-RES]

I copulated with a bear trap and lived. I loved it so much I bought a whole range of traps... mmmmmm masochism!

Re:Actually...

[cmdr_tofu]

I was trying to do that in nethack, but then I died from eating a poisonous zombie orc corpse

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha! I just F*cked all of you in the @$$!!!

Just use Open Office

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, sounds exactly like Open Office, just without the ads.... I'll stick with OO. I'm a "casual" office user and haven't touched MS Office in five years.

Re:Just use Open Office

[ChefInnocent]

It sounds more like Microsoft Works to me rebranded. When I get a new machine the first thing I do is uninstall that POS called Works, which ironically doesn't. Works is a feature reduced set of Office that makes Wordpad look like an awesome wordprocessor. I like the OOo word processor well enough, but the spreadsheet just doesn't holdup as well (I use OOo at home). It is possible I would say the same of Excel if I had been using the OOo spreadsheet for the last 15+ years, but I haven't so Excel is the spreadsheet I really like and use. I've used Quattro Pro from Corel also, and although it had a couple of nice features I'd like to see in Excel, it is clearly a "runner" up package not really meant for prime time.

Re:Just use Open Office

[Anonymous Coward]

Five years? That's a long time to be unemployed.

2002 called

[Anonymous Coward]

Ad-ware, 2002 called, and it wants it's idea back.

If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue...

[Eric Smith]

... then why isn't bundled "office" software?

Probably can't get MS to bundle OpenOffice, but maybe it's possible to get some of the major PC makers (e.g., HP, Dell, etc.) to bundle OpenOffice on PCs they sell? They certainly add plenty of craplets to their PCs, so why not add something actually useful to their customers?

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Anonymous Coward]

The browser thing started back in what, 94? You gotta way like 15 years for government regulation to work.

...It smells like a french whorehouse in here....

[Bob_Who]

It was only a matter of time before the inner slut came out to pander the genuine windows licensee. Selling MS Windows OS over and over is not enough for these vampires; Word Pad is just bad pimping. No more free bees you hos!

Now that the Boss has put a stop to employee gaming, p2p, porn, chatting, youtube and iTunes, the company workplace will be overjoyed that staff will instead be watching Red Bull, Old Spice, Midol, Chili's, McNuggets, and Iron Man III dancing across the desktop. I'm just glad to see the corporate ethic of "suck every buck possible out of everything, and exploit your customer to death". This way, shareholders get paid while, consumers feed the data mines. Software finally graduates into ad space pandering, just like the web, radio, cable and film. Its Eau de Cologne Bologne. I real "quickie."

OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[advocate_one]

MS Works all over again with file formats that nothing else can read... and adverts!!!

Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[jim_v2000]

Because nothing reads doc and xls files, right?

Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[zmollusc]

Heh, I was thinking about works as well. I wonder if there will be new bloated file formats for wasting space and bandwidth? Maybe the time is ripe for WindozeSecureEmail which will put the text into a hi-def-animated-picture-filled pdf-like drm-o-rama file format? That should burn off a few clock cycles.

Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[gbjbaanb]

It'll be using docx and xlsx files, right?

Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[jim_v2000]

Well, both of those can be opened by OOo too.

Re:OMG... deja moo... with ads...

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience... not very well. I've been using OO.org as my only office suite for 6+ years, but the compatibility with docx isn't remotely close to what it is with .doc. It's not even as good as OO.org 1.0's .doc compatibility, which wasn't all that good.

if I wanted...

[Odinlake]

...a slightly more annoying Office with slightly less functionality for free I'd use Open Office.

Oh wait, I do!

Re:if I wanted...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Except people will use Office Starter instead because it has the look that they're used to.

In the end, interface color and initial out-of-the-box appearance beats anything for the common user.

Doesn't sound to bad to me...

[Zakabog]

This doesn't sound all too bad. The ads would likely bother most of the slashdot crowd but then most of us are either using open office, a pirated copy of office, or when we're forced to at work, legitimate purchased copies of office. Microsoft finally offering a free copy of office with new computers with the stipulation that there will be ads and limited functionality is still better than nothing. It really kills a sale of a new computer when a person asks "Will this have Microsoft Word on it?" and you say "Well no... that will ll be $100 extra..." And some people just aren't open to the idea of an office alternative (open office.) I'm surprised they haven't done something like this sooner, though I'm willing to bet that the growing popularity of open office has been pushing them in the direction of offering a "free" version of office.

Re:Doesn't sound to bad to me...

[forgotten_my_nick]

Seriously in this day and age there is no reason to have a pirate copy of an office suite. Open Office or Symphony work fine and have 0 adverts.

I don't know anyone who would having the choice of free Office software with and without adverts would take the first choice.

Although I can see Clippy now.. "Hi I see your trying to write a letter to your girlfriend, would you like to buy some Viagra?"

Re:Doesn't sound to bad to me...

[maxume]

The reason is that "I can't seem to get MS Office to do that" is a valid excuse to many people that receive documents, whereas "Program-you-never-heard-of doesn't do that" is not.

That's changing as OpenOffice gains more traction, but it hasn't changed enough yet.

Re:Doesn't sound to bad to me...

[houghi]

You probably thought that adding a free browser was a good idea as well. It isn't. If you are a monopoly, the rules are different. This must be seen as a direct attack on OpenOffice.org and is intended to destroy the competition. This is extremely bad and I hope that the law forbids them doing it.

Re:Doesn't sound to bad to me...

[Rockoon]

Follow the money. The OEMs bundle things for a profit. The rules are that you absolutely have to let the OEM in on the action to play here profitably, because the OEMs are the gate keepers of things-bundled-by-OEMs. So Microsoft is sniffing around a new market? The market is only new to Microsoft, as others have been playing in it for a very long time.

As long as Microsoft negotiates with OEM's like everyone else for the privilege of playing in that market, then I don't see an anti-trust issue.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[jim_v2000]

Because PC makers will bundle it with their computers, like they do with MS Works. Microsoft won't be bundling it with Windows.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Zakabog]

If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue... ... t hen why isn't bundled "office" software?

Because this version of Office is an option when you buy the new computer that you can choose to remove whenever you'd like. Whereas Internet Explorer is something that you have no say on when buying a new computer or even uninstall when you do get the computer (well, not easily anyway.)

Someone tell me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone tell me if Slashdot's editor is changed? Recently I see many stories from M$ than G

Ads for what?

[Impeesa]

Really, ads for what? Windows? Office? Like, in case they haven't heard of it?

Re:Ads for what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like all the rest of the Internet ads.... free Korean MMOs and penis growth pills

I see you're typing a document...

[poptones]

Would you like to view a commercial for the US mail service?

Alternatives

[sqrt(2)]

I think "casual" office users would be more than happy with something like Open Office, or Google Docs. There are free alternatives that don't have ads, why would someone use this? If it gets put on PCs automatically it will get used by users too lazy or uninformed to find something better, but doesn't MS already have a product they've been putting on new PCs called MS Works?

Re:Alternatives

[RLiegh]

There are free alternatives that don't have ads, why would someone use this?

Re:Alternatives

[moon3]

more than happy with something like Open Office, or Google Docs

Most users actually use what is pre-installed, a clear attempt for MS Office to gain new grounds. Why do you think the IE6 is so widespread still ? It is the default bundled browser on Windows XP. This is not a good news for Open Office or Google.

Re:Alternatives

[lordandmaker]

why would someone use this?

Because they already have this and it does what they want it to do. The same reason they stick with Windows and Outlook and Media Player and IE.

Re:Alternatives

[Chris Oz]

I don't know a 30 second video ad every time you run the spelling checker could help the adoption of OO of G Docs. It really depends on how intrusive the ads are and going by the Zune they will be trying to get their dollars worth from you.

Re:Alternatives

[gbjbaanb]

Yup, but I give it 6 months before the anti-trust lawsuit starts up again and MS is forced to put a 'which brow^H^H^H^HOffice suite do you want to use' the first time you try to run it.

(and have you noticed how they keep trying to force their stuff on you, I installed MSN, and the excellent apatch to remove the really annoying ads, and it pops up a dialog saying 'set Bing as your default search provider and prevent other programs from altering this'. I'm not sure I like that.)

Re:Alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

it will get used by users too lazy or uninformed to find something better

So, about 65% of people then??

Why oh why

[countertrolling]

Why can't they just bring back 4.3? It would run so fast on these new machines.

Re:Why oh why

[Macgrrl]

MS Word 5.1a was the best version for features vs. performance vs. stability/reliability.

Nope

[poptones]

Peolpe will use it because it's there. And now because office is "free" with their new computer they will have no reason to pirate it and every reason to use it, thus deepening the MS monopoly on the desktop.

I smell some new antitrust action.

Re:Nope

[houghi]

The problem is not that they won't use a pirated copy. The problem is that they won't use OpenOffice.org and thus basically abusing their monopoly again.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[mjwx]

... then why isn't bundled "office" software?

Because it isn't bundled.

I dislike Microsoft and dont like defending them but this simply isn't bundling. The Office license is sold separately, while dell does include a free Microsoft Works package with most models (I even got a works disk with a Red Hat workstation a few years back) the package is entirely removable. This is no more illegal then if an OEM pre-installed Open Office or Ubuntu including Open Office with their default install.

The browser is an issue because it is integrated into the kernel and not removable. Office is not integrated and completely removable.

Now if MS is using under the table deals to "persuade" OEM's to sell more Office licenses then we have a problem.

GRRRRRR...

[RLiegh]

that's what I get for posting to slashdot while I'm on the phone.
To finish my thought -the reason why is very simple.
Piss fucking simple:
COMPATIBILITY

Go ahead, make my day

[iamacat]

By experimenting with starter edition, non-technical users will conclude that MS Word is unstable (software with ads usually hangs while trying to load them), lacks essential features and of course looks junky. We can then take pity on them and offer to install "new Windows that comes with no ads and fully functional software".

You would think Microsoft would learn its lesson after shipping with a media player that doesn't play DVDs and can't rip/burn your own CDs to standard MP3s. Apple, take cue for a new "I am a Mac" ad featuring a comparison to iWork.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[muffen]

...software with ads usually hangs while trying to load them, lacks essential features and of course looks junky

The publisher of the app is probably more relevant than the "ad supported" part in regards to "hangs while trying to load".

You cant say "will lack essential features" when you dont know what will be in there or what people who will actually use this version requires. Personally I think they are happy enough being able to read word docs and write the occasional one-pager.

I very much doubt it will look "junky". Hate Microsoft all you want but you cannot deny that a lot of their success has to do with their "eye-candy". Perhaps companies like Apple have passed them with both looks and usability, but I still doubt Microsoft will release an office version that looks "junky". Again you say this like it was true but you have no proof, not even a screenshot, of what it would look like.

I think this is a good move by Microsoft and I also think they should have done this a long time ago.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[BikeHelmet]

I actually had my first experience last week where an older person figured out Ubuntu faster than Windows.

He demanded I install it on his laptop, as well.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Media Player (from Windows XP SP1) can rip to mp3 out of the box (granted, it's not the best codec out there, and it defaults to (DRM infested?) wma). Don't know/Didn't bother to check if they have screwed up that in Vista...

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[shutdown -p now]

We can then take pity on them and offer to install "new Windows [ubuntu.com] that comes with no ads and fully functional software".

You'll be the one to explain them afterwards that by "fully functional" you didn't mean working wireless, winprinter, or some osbcure webcam model.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[iamacat]

Yes, they finally bowed to pressure from "Rip, Mix, Burn" Apple campaign. Just like one day they will be forced to offer a fully functional productivity suite for under $100.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[iamacat]

You cant say "will lack essential features" when you dont know what will be in there or what people who will actually use this version requires.

I expect it to be on par with various Windows starter editions and limit a document to 3 pages or something like that.

I very much doubt it will look "junky". Hate Microsoft all you want but you cannot deny that a lot of their success has to do with their "eye-candy".

How so? Microsoft gained the most market share in MS-DOS - Windows 95 time period. The success of their later OSes was inversely proportional to the amount eye candy. Their stock faltered in XP days and Vista was an unbelievable flop for such a dominant and experienced company. It would be more fair to say that their success is due to be the default OS preinstalled on cheap hardware that sort of works with a few crashes, reboots and viruses.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[iamacat]

Ok, it's a tie here. Less drivers are written for Linux, but once they are released, they remain available for posterity. You can still compile MFM hard drive support into the latest 64 bit kernel. On the other hand, Windows releases, especially 64 bit ones, tend to leave a lot of drivers behind. Vista was notorious for not working with things like "winprinters".
So if you want to put your laptop through a couple of OS upgrades before trashing it, Linux is a better bet. In this case, you also have many more options of setting up a modern and responsive system on hardware which is a few years old.

Also, between NDIS wrappers and standardization of USB devices in a given class, actual problems are rare with hardware that you would buy today.

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[shutdown -p now]

Ok, it's a tie here. Less drivers are written for Linux, but once they are released, they remain available for posterity.

No, they only remain for as long as there's a maintainer willing to keep them up-to-date, because of non-stable kernel APIs. Do I need to Google that story about the guy who dropped the ball with a bunch of webcam drivers for Linux a few years ago?

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[iamacat]

Is the situation really better in windows, where drivers are only available while the device is still sold?

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[shutdown -p now]

Is the situation really better in windows, where drivers are only available while the device is still sold?

It depends. Thing is, in many cases binary Windows drivers work for a lot longer than Linux drivers in source form, because of ABI stability For most things not related to video, for example, you can often use W2K drivers in Win7 (though sometimes you have to jump through hoops to make them install).

On the whole, I won't argue that, on average, Linux supports older hardware better. I will, however, argue that, on average, Windows supports typical present-day hardware better, which is quite relevant in the context of your original post where you advocated to convince people to move to Linux by saying that it's "fully functional". Too often (especially back in the day when I was primarily a Linux user myself, and participated in spreading the word) I've seen people believe in that, and then be extremely disappointed when they run into problems because of extremely high expectations they came to have after hearing the praises for virtues of Linux. It pays more to be truthful there (and even more to ask them about the detailed hardware list, and do the compatibility research yourself).

Re:Go ahead, make my day

[Risen888]

you didn't mean working wireless, winprinter, or some osbcure webcam model.

Are you talking about Vista here?

Can you uninstall it?

[bradbury]

The question will be whether you can uninstall it? I've got better things to do with my disk space and network bandwidth than support/tolerate adware. Do I have to pay for the Ads to be downloaded if my Internet access is over a 3G network???.

For that matter is it possible in Windows 7+ to uninstall IE (or the anti-virus/Windows update/big-brother/similar software)?

Can one get back to the state where it is more like a Windows 2000 system (I still have my Win2K install disks...) or even Windows 98 or 95 [1]?

Sigh, when will someone sue computer manufacturers (HP, Dell [2], Apple, etc.) so they will all provide hardware without software and end the paternalistic (monopolistic) HW+SW bundling practices?

1. Though in theory one really wouldn't want to run 95 or 98 because their unprotected nature is presumably what started the madness...
2. Though I recently noticed Dell may be returning to providing a Linux option...

Re:Can you uninstall it?

[cbhacking]

Aside from taking this opportunity to mention that anybody seriously considering removing OEM crapware manually would be FAR better off reformatting (it's faster, there's no risk of something left behind, and shouldn't cost anything - the media is essentially free, all that matters is the license key conveniently printed on a sticker) I'm sure that this will be removable. Office (in all its flavors) has always been pretty easy to uninstall, and there's no particular reason they'd do differently here. It's not like the copies of Works, or trial versions of Office, that currently come from OEMs can't be removed.

There's been a TON of info on the web about this, which makes it surprising that you would ask, but yes, you can remove IE from Win7. It doesn't remove the Trident engine (which many 1st- or 3rd-party software relies on, much like Webkit on OS X) but the browser application is optional.

As for the rest... it doesn't come with any AntiVirus per se, although it does have Windows Defender. This can be disabled, but I'm not sure whether it's easily removable. Disabling it and removing the install location might work, though. Removing Windows Update from a Internet-connected system would be absolutely retarded - you can manually patch but you'd probably waste more space downloading all the patches rather then just the incremental stuff - but I suppose the same approach as Defender might work. No way that I know of to remove WGA (assuming that's what you meant by "big-brother") short of seriously extensive hackery.

I really doubt you want it back to looking like Windows 2000 (and I know I don't miss the startup time on that thing) but I suppose by going though and removing every feature you can find (most can be deactivated through some registry edit or similar) less than 9 years old, you could get close. Nothing you can do will turn a NT-based system into a 9x-based one, though - they're completely different operating systems that happen to share an ABI and nearly-identical UI.

While not available on every model, virtually every major OEM offers either a pre-installed Linux or FreeDOS (upon which you might be able to run Windows 3.1 - do you still have disks for that?) on some of their computers. You could also build your own (cheap and pretty easy with a desktop, tricky but possible with a laptop), buy a used model without a Windows license, or buy new, refuse the Windows EULA, and get a refund for the cost of the OEM license (which isn't a ton, but it counts in principle).

Re:Can you uninstall it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The question will be whether you can uninstall it? I've got better things to do with my disk space and network bandwidth than support/tolerate adware.

Hey the late 90s called, they want their complaint back. Jeesh people complained about this when we had 56kbps modems, and now with 25mbps you're still complaining. Come talk to me again when the ads feature high def motion video.

Re:Can you uninstall it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you may be referring to this.

Re:Can you uninstall it?

[RAMMS EIN]

``The question will be whether you can uninstall it? I've got better things to do with my disk space and network bandwidth than support/tolerate adware. Do I have to pay for the Ads to be downloaded if my Internet access is over a 3G network???.

For that matter is it possible in Windows 7+ to uninstall IE (or the anti-virus/Windows update/big-brother/similar software)?''

If you are concerned about these things, you are not the target audience for Microsoft. If you want control over your computer, then Microsoft software isn't for you. Microsoft software is for people who are too afraid to try anything else, usually because they are afraid they themselves or those who administer their computers won't know how to use it, or because they are afraid of losing compatibility with the rest of the world. That makes Microsoft the only real option for them, and a little money and freedom to be paid really is a lower barrier than the fear of the unknown.

And then, of course, there are those who are genuinely enthusiastic about Microsoft products. They may be a minority, but they do exist.

(Apologies if the formatting is messed up. Slashdot is so horribly broken these days that I feel a sense of honor if I can post at all.)

Re:Can you uninstall it?

[shutdown -p now]

The question will be whether you can uninstall it?

Almost certainly. Right now, Microsoft has a deal with OEMs to bundle a trial version of Office 2007 with the ability to "electronically upgrade" it to full version online, paying via CC - my last HP desktop came with that. And it's as easy to uninstall as any other Windows application.

For that matter is it possible in Windows 7+ to uninstall IE (or the anti-virus/Windows update/big-brother/similar software)?

It's possible to uninstall IE (didn't you read all the /. stories on MS-EU anti-trust saga?). It does not come with an anti-virus out of the box. And Windows Update is not an application.

Opera Software called...

[xtracto]

...And they wanted their failed business model back.

Clippy pushes Viagra

[icebike]

Clippy is back, and he's pushing Viagra right to your desktop.

If I wanted ad supported docs I'd use Google. In fact I prefer it, because its at least up front about the ads.

Google Docs is more than adequate for the casual user.

OpenOffice is still free, and easily able to handle book length documents, huge spreadsheets, etc.

So where does Microsoft think they will find a market for this stuff?

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[Nathrael]

They don't find a market, they abuse their OS monopoly to create one.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[advocate_one]

So where does Microsoft think they will find a market for this stuff?

by having OEMs pre-load it in exchange for discounts off the OEM price of windows

Basically, they'll abuse their monopoly position and it will take several years for the US DOJ and EU to bring them to heel... other markets are stuffed because they don't have "effective" anti-monopoly commissions to protect customers and OEMS from abusive multi-nationals (I say "effective" because the US market isn't working properly either...)

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[Jedi Alec]

So where does Microsoft think they will find a market for this stuff?

Get a DELL XT1600 now for only $249! FREE Microsoft Office Starter 2010, Microsoft Essentials and Bonzi Buddy included!

Any other questions?

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[jonadab]

> So where does Microsoft think they
> will find a market for this stuff?

Same place they found a market for WordPad and Paint and Times New Roman. If you read the summary, they're planning to have it included in OEM installations of Windows.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[Anonymous Coward]

They will have a captured market, just like with IE. Most home users will use the software on their new computer instead of downloading, installing and configuring something new.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[mattygabe]

So where does Microsoft think they will find a market for this stuff?

The same market that also believes that Internet Explorer and the Internet are logically equivalent.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[Anonymous Coward]

Google Docs gets very slow with minimal effort. All the while I was using Chrome.

It's a useful tool, but it is not good enough for anything other than a short list.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[Anonymous Coward]

From people that still think that computer software = Mircosoft, but can't afford the real thing.

Re:Clippy pushes Viagra

[ajlisows]

One thing I have noticed is that casual users often get roped into purchasing a copy of Office 200x with new computers. Most recently I have seen a lot of Legit Office 2003/2007 Basic, Small Business, and PROFESSIONAL on home computers. In other words, not even the reasonably priced "Home and Student" version. The kinds of people I have seen drop $350 on Pro are usually typing documents in word, MAYBE using a spreadsheet to keep track of something very simple, and possibly occasional use of Powerpoint if they have kids in school or are taking classes themselves. Obviously Open Office would work well, but if this "Demo With Ads" that does not expire is preloaded perhaps they won't fall for the upsell. Best Buy is never going to recommend Open Office, but hopefully a few of their sales people will listen to what someone intends to do with their computer and agree the free version is good enough. Unlikely, but still...

seems like an obvious move

[j-beda]

It seems like a pretty obvious move - with the advent of so many free non-MS alternatives I think Microsoft has a legitimate fear that they will become just one of the options in the "office suite" space, rather than the de facto standard. Getting their "free" offering onto as many desktops as possible MIGHT protect that status.

The open source alternatives however are hard to "compete" against, since they are generally going to continue to live even with a vanishingly small "market share" - as long as enough technical types are willing to support them.

I think in the long term, MS and others are not going to be able to justify to the consumer the high prices for their offerings that they have been able to up to now, and that low cost (perhaps free/ad supported) is the only way they are going to be able to maintain any level of profitability and stay in business.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Eric Smith]

"Office Starter" is ONLY going to come pre-loaded on new PCs, and will not be available separately. If that's not "bundling", what is?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[mjwx]

"Office Starter" is ONLY going to come pre-loaded on new PCs, and will not be available separately. If that's not "bundling", what is?

Is it integral to the OS?

If it's not then it's an OEM problem and has nothing to do with antitrust. This is not bundling, much like Dell's "free" MS Works it is a separate line item and completely removable. If this were bundling the including a power supply with a laptop would be bundling and that is definitely not an antitrust issue.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[polle404]

They get paid to bundle all that crapware, as far as i know.
I'd rather donate to OO, than to a fund that pays Dell to preinstall it.

Clippie is back!!

[scsirob]

"I see you are typing f*ck... Would you like to see related ads from our valued partners??"

Welcome back Clippie!

So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, this is adware? I bet anyone any amount of money that anti-malware software doesn't classify this as adware.

Can't people just use OpenOffice already?

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because OO.o is slower, not fully format-compatible, lacks some important features and some fine touches that allow user to work really efficiently.
Here's my take on the current situation as a heavy word processor user:
- For "light" scenarios, the free-as-in-beer TextMaker 2006 is better - it's fast, has good compatibility and most of the features you expect from a word processor. Abiword is sorta OK, but is less format-compatible, seems to have less features, and has poorer UI.
- For more complex work, TextMaker 2008 is almost perfect. Excellent format compatibility, near feature parity with Word 2000...2003 (excluding most esoteric features.) The only serious flaw with it is that it still doesn't have a macro recorder (though you can write macros manually.) With OO.o Writer, you gain macro recording, but lose some compatibility, speed, features and convenience. Oh, and TextMaker supports Linux natively.
Finally, you can get a used legal copy of Word 2000...2003 for cheap, which is what I did.
I personally use Word 2002, because I need 100% format compatibility with my customers and use certain special software that depends on Word.
The above comment may look as an advertisement for TextMaker, but it isn't - I just tried it and was really impressed. Unlike OO.o Writer, various versions of which I've been trying continuously since 1.0 days (sure, it's made a big progress, but still hasn't made it event to No. 2 in my eyes.).

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I personally use Word 2002, because I need 100% format compatibility with my customers and use certain special software that depends on Word."

I guess I stopped reading after that comment.

Re:So...

[temcat]

I guess I stopped reading after that comment

Well, too bad for you. Maybe you stopped thinking as well.

I've been working for 9 years as a freelance translator using a variety of Office versions (pirated 2000 and 2003, then legal 2002) with customers using everything from Office 97 to Office 2007, and I've yet to encounter a single problem related to document incompatibility between versions. So my experience tells me that in actual practice, Word self-incompatibility is greatly exaggerated.

You may still run into troubles if you say try to open a document using some 2002- or 2003-specific document features in Word 2000. But those features are not basic at all (actually, they are mostly useless), and people just don't use them when collaborating. In contrast, OO.o Writer, as of v3.1, still doesn't leave intact my manual page breaks, comments, and bullet/numbered lists made in Word - which is as basic as it gets. I've never have Word do that for me.

So yes, Word 2002 gives me full format compatibility for all practical purposes - even with the 2007 format, using the free addon from Microsoft. I bought 2002 and not 2003 because I found it at a good price. 2007 was not an option because I consider it inferior to previous version speed- and UI-wise.

Re:So...

[temcat]

And yes, I'm the AC above.

Adverts coming from an internet server?

[ocularsinister]

Adverts coming from an internet server? A quick fix to C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts should fix that...

Re:Adverts coming from an internet server?

[asdf7890]

Adverts coming from an internet server? A quick fix to C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts should fix that...

I'm sure they've thought of that, and will have it check to see if the address found for the server name actually returns the right stuff and if not it'll try a short list of fixed IP addresses like WindowsUpdate does to avoid being redirected by DNS poisoning attacks.

If you have an outgoing firewall on the other hand (say, an iptables setup on your router or a third party firewall on the machine itself), some rules there would get rid of the adverts. Though maybe the apps would disable themselves if it wasn't able to contact the advert server(s) within a given amount of time... OK, that can be hacked out but once you start down that route you may as well pirate the full thing if you want it that badly without paying.

Re:Adverts coming from an internet server?

[shutdown -p now]

I'm sure they've thought of that ...

I'm sure they've thought of that as well, and most likely came to the conclusion that it's not worth the bother. So 1% of the technically apt users will remove ads one way or another (/etc/hosts or a crack) - so what? The other 99% will have no idea it's even possible, and will keep staring at them.

Re:Adverts coming from an internet server?

[tokul]

Adverts coming from an internet server? A quick fix to C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\hosts should fix that.

Do you know that some microsoft addresses are hardcoded in OS? OS might ignore etc\hosts.

Same address might host Office licensing server and Office Adware Edition might refuse to start, if licensing server is not available.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[bashmohandes]

It replaces Microsoft Works, there is no more Works, just Office Starter edition

You are all idiots

[bashmohandes]

Microsoft Office 2010 Starter Edition is the replacement of Microsoft Works, and it will be bundled with the new machines that already comes today with Works. This would boost Microsoft office business even more, because there is no more Non-Ribbon office applications in Microsoft platform, even Wordpad got ribbons in Win7, which means people will be extremely familiar with the ribbon. One more thing, anybody says he hates the ribbon is a big IDIOT, the ribbon is the best UI component ever released, and if you just can't admit it, go f*** yourself. or sleep with your OpenOffice.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn what tenses are, you stupid raghead.

Goodbye MS Works!

[samael]

Thank goodness I won't have to worry about relatives with MS Works any more!

Re:Bring on the confusion

[ignavus]

...they have to lay down another couple of hundred dollars for real Office.

Perfect opportunity to install real OpenOffice without laying down any more dollars.

Thanks Microsoft.

The market for this? Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

So where does Microsoft think they will find a market for this stuff?

Probably with casual users who just want to use a computer right out of the box. You know, that 80% - 90% of people out there. Almost none of which have actually even heard of things like OpenOffice. And who don't want to download Google Docs. And those who have used Microsoft Office in the past, and liked it. And those who want to save money by not purchasing the full version of Office, but still want the basic features.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[petermgreen]

Afaict the deals between MS and OEMs are secret so it's difficult to tell exactly what is going on.

If the OEMs are paying a reasonable price for the OEM copies works or office trial (or when it comes out office starter) and the OEMs are including it of thier own free will then I agree it is not an antitrust issue. OTOH if MS is pushing the OEMs into bundling it then IMO it is an antitrust issue

The fact that most big brand machines I see come with either works or an office trial* makes me suspect that the latter is the more likely case.

*List of big brand machines i've ecountered in a state where I could tell and can remember what if any office suite was bundled:
AST advantage adventure 4066d: came with works
(I went th
Apple macbook: no bundled office software
ASUS eeepc 900: came with works
Dell vostro 420: came with works
Dell optiplex 760: came with works
HP mini 5101: came with office trial

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[petermgreen]

(I went th
That should have said: I went through a long period of purchasing mostly whiteboxes between these machines and the one big brand I did get in that time I don't remember what if anything was in the original software load

Re:Bring on the confusion

[cbhacking]

For what it's worth, Office has had significant SKU differentiation (usually in which portions of the full suite were included, sometimes in what features of individual programs were available) for probably over a decade now. Nobody seems overly bothered by it. Each versions spells out what is and is not included, and the one that most people find most necessary (Word) is included in every suite SKU (you can also buy the individual programs, if none of the suites fit your needs).

other option

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'm using an old version of office 2000 on a brand new computer because it works adequately. The media machine has open office on it, and it still screws up a powerpoint occasionally

That's pretty confident of MS...

[Anonymous Coward]

Last I heard, they can't sell Word in the US. Wouldn't that be constituted as a breach of the court order?

Reduced functionality sounds good to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd pay for a reduced functionality version of office if it ran faster. 95% of the functions I have never, ever used.

Re:Bring on the confusion

[gbjbaanb]

I've seen Windows Live Messenger ads... until I installed APatch and removed them. lovely.

This screams 'Anti-Trust'

[mrjb]

Didn't Microsoft get slapped by the court for bundling IE with Windows, leveraging their monopoly and (nearly) driving Netscape out of Business? How is bundling Office any different, and why would the OpenOffice/StarOffice people have to tolerate it?

Excel for Casual Users?

[brennanw]

How exactly does a spreadsheet fit into the "casual user" profile?

"Oh, I was just screwing around one day, modeling possible amortization breakdowns on various theoretical mortgages. You know, just to kill time before I finished up the index and the table of references in my letter to grandma..."

great business model

[Anonymous Coward]

Think about it 1 year of usage roughly 360 days, at least 4 ads per day, 25c per ad, they get $360. And it could be ten times more. Ads can be content specific - writing about shoes and you get nearest shoe store. There is a ton of money there to be picked up, not to mention that they will increase share. Time for OOfice to partner with Google.

Don't worry!

[Snaller]

You can still format the machine and reinstall!

Another pro-linux slant.....yawn

[Tomsk70]

"......who apparently will be perfectly fine with reduced-functionality and ad-supported software."

Apparently. Right. No-one *at all* has whinged about how many features they don't actually need in Word/ Excel, and yet once that's being addressed, it's now a problem. Like your average buyer will complain about getting basic Word and Excel over Works (a fully featured Works, which I'm sure eveyrone would prefer)..

And can we also cut the crap with Open Office? It's been bandied about as Vastly Superior for *years* now....and I've yet to work at a company that's seriously using it. Big it up once >20% of word processing users agree with you (which means OO still has a loooong way to go).

Re:Another pro-linux slant.....yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

And can we also cut the crap with Open Office? It's been bandied about as Vastly Superior for *years* now....and I've yet to work at a company that's seriously using it. Big it up once >20% of word processing users agree with you (which means OO still has a loooong way to go).

2009 is the year of the OpenOffice Office...

Yawn

[youn]

a couple of years ago, ms came out with windows starter edition which was limited, made the headlines as an attempt to combat piracy and linux. was a cute attempt to block competition with a limited almost worthless cut down version of the real thing.

Eventually, they will keep slowly losing market shares because of increased openoffice (and other suites) compatibility.

of course their dominance will keep for a while because they are still market leader, but I think it will fade as compatibility increases. Ironically, the same thing will happen to office as what happened with lotus... lotus started losing market shares because excel started reading lotus files... it's funny to have that bite them back (not with lotus) yearslater

Re:The market for this? Well...

[M-RES]

Actually, I've noticed that some netbooks are shipping with Google's apps pre-installed. So maybe this is MS trying to regain some ground they're losing in that space...

Re:Bring on the confusion

[Tomsk70]

Wow, you really know the WP habits of all the non-commenting slashdot readers? How did you figure that out?

Anyway - I'm not sure why there's a problem here - would you prefer angry calls from users who thought they'd automatically get office, and got Works, as has been the case for decades? Having supported it for a horribly long time, I'd still choose Office-Lite - different versions of the same app (while annoying) will always win over different apps.

And where the different versions of windows that bad? I only recall having to advise business on why Windows Home couldn't connect to a domain. In any case, you want version problems? RIght - which version of Linux should I run?

I Agree with the side note though - If anyone has seen Slashdot lately, via IE8 and without logging in, you'll understand what passes for acceptable for advertising these days.

I don't agree with all the 'perfect opportunities' (OO plugs) that follow the post, though. RIghtly or Wrongly, it hasn't made a big enough stamp yet,,,and it's been out for quite a while....

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue... then why isn't bundled "office" software?

It depends upon how it is sold to OEMs mostly. A company interested in obeying antitrust law would sell these to OEMs as a completely separate interaction than licensing Windows, using different contacts from a different division of the company and make it perfectly clear that OEM licensing will not be affected by whether or not that company decides to ship a version of MS Office.

MS, is unlikely to do that based upon their previous track record, and may do just the opposite. Everything they do to tie the two sales pulls them closer to an actionable antitrust offense.

There's a second antitrust issue here too. Depending upon how the markets are defined by the courts, MS could be running into antitrust issues within different segments of the office suite market (unlikely) or prices fixing problems. You see, MS has never ben declared by any court I know of to have a monopoly on office suite software, but they have handed out some very large private settlements during the 11th hour of civil suits that would have established that had they lost. So while it is not proven in court, MS probably has monopoly influence on that market, which makes differential pricing of "versions" of their office suite aimed at extracting the most money from each subgroup of society a potential antitrust issue.

Microsoft Is

[Anonymous Coward]

dead ( an essay by Paul Graham).

Enjoy.

Yours In Domodedovo,
Kilgore Trout

Reduced Features == Works Suite

[Anonymous Coward]

Reduced Features basically means "Works Suite" to me, basically a brain-dead edition of Works:

Excel:
=====
-All "data analysis" tools are gone
-most "advanced" functions are also gone
-Basic graphing capabilities
-No data import

Basically turns excel into a glorified calculator, or puts it on par with OpenOffice calc.

Word:
=====
-No Export Option
-Saves in Proprietary Format, not 100% compatible with Word
-Most Fonts gone
-No Voice Input Functionality -- HONESTLY, who uses that!? Use Dragon instead!
-
Basically turns Word into a glorified Notepad.exe, or puts it at the same level of functionality as OpenOffice word.

Antitrust

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this what got them into hot water with the DOJ + EU in the first place (bundling IE)? It's remarkable that they would just turn around, and try this funny business again. I guess they were okay with the penalties, perhaps this time they should get stung enough to remember.

Re:Bring on the confusion

[RAMMS EIN]

``On a side note, I don't think ads will be a problem at all for the target audience. If anyone has seen Windows Live Messenger lately, you'll understand what passes for acceptable for advertising in desktop applications these days.''

I just think that it's hilarious that that is what you get from what many people still see as a professional provider of quality software that people gladly pay for, whereas the oft-ridiculed fringe groups that largely can't get anywhere near Microsoft's market penetration while giving their software away for free provide slick user interfaces that implement state of the art usability guidelines and are ad free.

Re; If I wanted

[oraclecrank]

I quit using Office 2008 for Mac at my business (a used bookstore) in favor of OpenOffice.org a few months ago and I have noticed zero functional difference. Maybe I'm just not doing enough advanced things (it's a really small business), but for an average user OpenOffice.org works fine. Hypothetically, if they decided to put ads in it you can bet I'd go right to Gnumeric and Abiword. If Microsoft has decided that consumers are so unsophisticated as to just use whatever comes with the machine without looking at the alternatives, how can they expect a significant number of those people to know the difference between the paid and "free" versions of Office? Won't people see Office at the store for $200 or whatever and think "That piece of crap that came with my computer and has all the ads? No thanks." Of course, it's a better idea than WordPad was, I guess.

you will be assimilated

[OFnow]

Assumption: the only format for documents saved by
this free application will be MS proprietary, not readable
by any other application. Thus a back door way to 'encourage' the
users friends to 'upgrade' their version of Word! Am I just wrong?

Oh Slashdot...

[not already in use]

Apparently nobody else sees the irony in a bunch of people writing cynical and negative comments regarding MS releasing free, ad-supported software on a free, ad-supported website.

Casual Users Need Databases too

[Dareth]

And that is exactly what casual users use Excel for.

Deja vu

[Patch86]

Microsoft pre-bundling a free version of their most popular software in order to drive market share away from their competitors?

What could possibly go wrong?

Perfect Chance to Bring Back Clippy!

[ajlisows]

I see you are writing an E-Mail that involves bragging to multiple friends about your new "Hummer H2" vehicle.

Would you like help with...

Locating Male Enhancement Pills on the Internet?

Getting a list of Psychoanalysts in your area?

Being connected with the your areas hottest singles?

Purchasing a copy of Microsoft 2010 UUUULTIMATE?

Believe it or not this is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

For the folks who will simply use whatever it pre-installed on the computer, it's about damn time the crappy software they get will at least default save in a format compatible with the rest of the world.

captcha: discard

Re:Bring on the confusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, Works is just a different version of Word, so I really don't get your point...

Works

[Anonymous Coward]

The default file format in Works is incompatible with the default file format in Office. This missing feature is a huge stumbling block for ordinary users.

If Works was more like a stripped down version of Office it wouldn't be so bad but the interface is different enough to be annoying. To be fair though I think Works more resembles older versions of Office.
As for other features I know I'd have been happy with wordpad if it actually included spell checking, which is the Works does provide. Wordpad/Write is pretty good in most cases, it can't create tables but it can display them, although it doesn't usually display embedded objects, which can be annoying if images have been embedded as objects. No point wasting time downloading MS Word Viewer unless you want documents to print out perfectly.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Eric Smith]

It *is* bundling, because Office Starter isn't available in any way other than buying it bundled with the computer. A laptop power supply can be purchased separately.

Look at the history of anti-bundling legislation in the EU; most of the cases have NOTHING to do with whether a product is "integral to the OS", because most of the cases don't even involve an OS.

Re:If a bundled web browser is an antitrust issue.

[Eric Smith]

I don't see where anyone suggested that you contribute to any special new fund.

Re:*readies his version of IDA* - BRILLIANT

[Anonymous Coward]

Brilliant post, specially the rant part.