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Barack Obama Wins the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize

Barack Obama has just been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The BBC opines: "In awarding President Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, the Norwegian committee is honoring his intentions more than his achievements. After all he has been in office only just over eight months and he will presumably hope to serve eight years, so it is very early in his term to get this award. ... The committee does not make any secret of its approach. It states that he is being given the prize 'for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples.' This is of course an implied criticism of former US president George W Bush and the neo-conservatives, who were often accused of trying to change the world in their image." The Washington Post collects more reactions from around the world.

139 of 1,721 comments (clear)

  1. personally by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems a bit premature. but hey, whatever they want to do.

    --
    I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    1. Re:personally by rwv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree. But then again, Al Gore essentially won the Nobel Peace Prize for making a Powerpoint presentation. If the committee is using the prize as a tool to make other world leaders take notice that America has really strong intentions to remove ourselves from all the international conflicts we're engaged in, then power to them.

      Between the troubles faced in the US domestic economy, the conflicts in the Middle East and Asia, health care reform, and setting a good example for his daughters, Obama is a man to be respected for his accomplishments during the past year.

    2. Re:personally by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the committee is using the prize as a tool to make other world leaders take notice that America has really strong intentions to remove ourselves from all the international conflicts we're engaged in

      Your kidding me, right?

      Obama is a man to be respected for his accomplishments during the past year.

      Which accomplishments would those be? Closing Gitmo? Nope, haven't done that yet. Health Care Reform? Nope, haven't done that yet, and it's not really "reform" anyway. Creating a transparent White House? Nope, we gave up on that one pretty early on.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:personally by Moryath · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, I just won a Nobel Peace Prize too! Says something about my "continued work to end the crisis in Sudan." Don't remember ever going to Sudan.

      Then again, I didn't know they were packaging these things in cracker-jack boxes...

    4. Re:personally by Jiro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nobel nominations must be made by the start of February.

      In other words, Obama got the prize for <i>being in office for two weeks</u>.

    5. Re:personally by nutshell42 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I hope he bombs Iran and North Korea before invading Pakistan together with India.

      Perhaps then the retards at the Nobel Peace Prize committee will stop handing out that thing like it's the Politically Correct Popularity Contest. Thousands of people work their asses off and often risk their lives trying to stop all the conflicts around the world and Obama gets it for...what, exactly?

      "Efforts to strengthen international diplomacy?" In other words for holding a bunch of grandstanding speeches. It's not like his approach to international relations is that different to Clinton or many presidents before him, even Bush's later years were pretty mellow.

      --
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    6. Re:personally by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I always thought that it was traditional to have to accomplish some significant shit to win a Nobel Prize. Apparently not, though. All Obama has really done that tons of common citizens haven't is be elected president (which, yes, is an accomplishment, but not a Nobel-worthy accomplishment). Where the hell are the Nobel Prizes coming our way?

      This degrades the award so much it's laughable.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    7. Re:personally by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fair enough. So what are his accomplishments on the international scene? He's given a few good speeches. Other than that, exactly what has he accomplished?

      This award reeks of political calculation. He was in office for less than two weeks and got nominated? WTF? You can't even really say that they gave it to him because of his grand speeches before the World stage -- because I don't think he had given any of them yet.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:personally by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Einstein didn't even have Power Point, but that's essentially what he did too.

      If we're going to start characterizing accomplishments dishonestly but with complete accuracy, Einstein won his Nobel for making little black ink marks on little pieces of white paper. I mean, really, my dog does that kind of shit.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    9. Re:personally by alexj33 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, he made us all feel fuzzy inside. That's got to count for something.

    10. Re:personally by gtbritishskull · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When I heard this I thought it was a little premature too. But, he while he doesn't have bullet points, he has changed the US position a LOT in international politics. When Bush was in office, the US was pretty much reviled throughout the world. Well, maybe not reviled, but definitely not trusted or liked. Whenever the US tried to do something internationally, everyone's first thought was always "What is their real purpose", because that administration didn't do ANYTHING for the world, unless the US directly benefited somehow. But, Obama somehow changed that. The US is regaining trust and respect in the world at a rate that I would not have thought possible. A lot of people in countries other than the US "support" Obama. How many "heads-of-state" do you "support" that aren't in your own country? How many can you even name off the top of your head? He has brought the US back into a prominent position in the international community which allows it to be a mediating influence in world relations rather than a destabilizing one (Bush was usually ranked at the top of the list of destabilizing influences, even above North Korea or Iran, in international polls while he was president). I am still not sure that I think Obama deserved the prize, but I can see why he might have gotten it. I think it might have helped his case to follow such a bad example of what the President of the US can be.

    11. Re:personally by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So he gets a peace prize because people around the world who don't understand how the US Government works are surprised when the US Government changes its approach? You know, like it does EVERY. FOUR. YEARS?

      In any case, why is "the US President acted only in the interests of the US" a bad thing? At worst, it's a neutral thing.

      All this shows is that the world community is entirely ignorant of how the US Office of the President works. No big surprise there. The real shame is that somebody who truly deserved this award didn't get it, because it was given to Obama instead. The second-to-last thing Obama needs is more inflation of his already-huge ego, and the last thing he needs is more excuses to shirk his job and appear on fucking TV.

    12. Re:personally by Bertie · · Score: 5, Informative

      (He used Keynote)

    13. Re:personally by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This degrades the award so much it's laughable.

      You do realize who, and for what reason, the award was given to in 2007, don't you? This prize has been a joke, in my opinion, since 1994.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    14. Re:personally by megaditto · · Score: 5, Informative

      Which accomplishments would those be?

      Probably it's for canceling the plans for the ABM (missiles/radar) in Europe, which he did last month. While it pissed off a lot of Poles, it sure made Russia feel safer.
      So the Russians canceled their new short-range nuclear missile deployment in turn, which made a lot of 'Old' Europeans feel safer.

      Now, since Obama got a Nobel Prize, he should have no problem applying for an O-1 visa, leading to a green card, and eventually, one day, a US citizenship. I keed, I keed...

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    15. Re:personally by 1s44c · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Last fucking thing this world needs is a homicidal jackass with his finger on the proverbial button.

      You voted bush out, remember?

      Did you find the WMD's in Iraq? No
      The same people are telling you there are WMD's in Iran. You should know better than to blindly believe it.

    16. Re:personally by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The international community is in love with BO because of his constant apologies for how evil the USA was in the last decade

      That's funny, that's part of why I like the guy too. We were pretty evil in the last decade.

    17. Re:personally by Martin+Blank · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The pace of missile strikes by US drones against Taleban targets in Afghanistan has picked up since January. There's a good chance that 40,000 to 60,000 more US troops will be deployed to Afghanistan. The military option against Iran's nuclear program is still not off the table. What exactly has been more peaceful? US troop withdrawal from cities in Iraq? That was negotiated under Bush, and would have been carried out whether it was Obama or McCain in the White House.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    18. Re:personally by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, when terrorists kill innocent people for over 3 decades and we finally get someone willing to do something to try and stop it, that's pretty evil. I'll never understand why idiots like you support terrorism so hard core and why you believe it's better to allow terrorism to continue unchecked than to make the hard decisions and try and stop it.

      The appropriate response to terrorism isn't terrorism. You present a false dichotomy: it is indeed possible to be against war (especially unjustified as in the past decade) without being for "terrorism," the generic catch-all enemy du jour. In the past it was the Russians or the Communists, or something else. Always a nameless shapeless threat which is used as excuse for committing unspeakable acts. This is exactly how it works on the other side of the fence too, this is exactly the same sort of failure to reason which leads to actual terrorism.

      Invoking terrorism as an excuse for absolutely any deplorable behavior furthers the problem rather than culling it.

    19. Re:personally by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Kissinger and Arafat got Peace Prizes.

      I respect the Prize as little as I respect the United Nations, which is not at all.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    20. Re:personally by Ajaxamander · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally, as an American citizen, I could give a rats fuck what the international community thinks about us.

      Awesome. And I'm sure you wonder why we got attacked in the first place. Personally, I like traveling, and I'd rather not be spit on when I venture abroad for sightseeing.

      The sad thing is before his 1st term is over, we will be hardly distinguishable from most of the European countries in terms of economics and social and political policy.

      And that's intrinsically bad, because...? If you have some example of where they're failing and we're following, then maybe bring that up. But I don't really see how emulating someone else is a "sad thing" in and of itself.

      No one has flown planes into any buildings in Europe that I know of.

    21. Re:personally by steelfood · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your dog does it, but it's probably not ink.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    22. Re:personally by bitt3n · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hey, I just won a Nobel Peace Prize too! Says something about my "continued work to end the crisis in Sudan." Don't remember ever going to Sudan.

      Then again, I didn't know they were packaging these things in cracker-jack boxes...

      actually, this might make the Nobel Peace Prize harder to come by in the future, if the committee's standards get so low it awards itself the prize on account of promoting peace by awarding the Nobel Peace Prize.

    23. Re:personally by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes I am.

      It is a great accomplishment in itself, to be the first Black American President.

      That is honestly the only thing I have seen him do that is could warrant such an award. He has not accomplished anything else significant, certainly nothing to the magnitude of being the first black president!

      He has failed so far on just about everything he ran on, and I'm holding him to it. I want Universal Single Payer Health Care. I pay for my own plan, ($1,110 a month). I see corporate America getting away with murder.... and our citizens in a terrible situation with a government that does nothing. HALF of which is out to slay Obama politically because they're babies.... The republicans i'm speaking about. They're traitors out to destory any solution good or bad.

      Its disgusting!!! AND OBAMA is gets a Nobel peace price... for what????????????

      These are serious times, and things must be accomplished before we pat ourselves on the back.

      WE HAVE DONE NOTHING yet.

    24. Re:personally by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Insightful

      because that administration didn't do ANYTHING for the world, unless the US directly benefited somehow.

      First, that's not true. Bush did more to stop AIDS in Africa than any person in the world, anywhere at any time. The US has spent and done more on this front than any other country on Earth. Tell me how the US directly benefits from that? Shouldn't Bush get a Nobel Prize for that? Obama got one for merely talking about doing stuff.

      How many women in the world legally voted for the first time in their lives thanks to America? Tell me how those feminine purple fingers benefited the US directly.

      Next, there is a logical flaw in your argument:
      The US is still on Earth. That meas that anything the US does for the WORLD (which as I previously stated, the US is still a part of), the US benefits from.

      Finally, why the hell else would we do it? It's not the US's job to make every place other than the US better. You want your country to be better? Make it that way yourself. What has the world done to make the US better? Maybe I've missed the food and medicine packets from Somalia being dropped on poor areas of our country.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    25. Re:personally by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except Obama HAS accomplished an incredible amount considering the short time he has been on the public scene. [...] No there is no lovely little list of all of his accomplishments how about you look at some facts instead and do some research.
       
      [Lengthy list of money he's spent snipped]

       
      (It would be interesting to find where you cut and pasted that from...)
       
      How exactly is spending buckets of money we don't have an 'accomplishment'? Other than from the POV of himself and political handlers - they've pandered to a lot of their political base and hopefully converted a few of those who voted for him primarily because he wasn't Republican. Not to mention the vast bulk of those 'accomplishments' are domestic, not the international effects the Prize is supposed to recognize.
       
       

      My lord, the man has already started nuclear disarment, which is GREAT by the way

       
      I'd laugh if it weren't so sad. US national policy has been promoting nuclear disarmament since the 70's, and by and large practicing what it preaches. At best, he's done nothing but following the course already set.

    26. Re:personally by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The appropriate response to terrorism is to find those responsible and kill them.

      Eye for an eye, eh? How's that working out for us so far in Iraq and Afghanistan? Have we caught Bin Laden yet?

      Afghanistan was a response to the government of that country harboring an organization that murdered 3,000 people.

      And how is this approach working out for us so far? Half that number of civilians has died to the war just this year. Now there are 4,500 innocents dead instead of 3,000.

      someone from Poland or the Baltic States if Russia was a "nameless, shapeless threat".

      So you're saying that US policy in the 80's was based on a threat to a few slavic states in Europe? Wow, that is not how I remember it. We were told the Russians were going to nuke the crap out of us. Pragmatically speaking the cold war in America wasn't about any countries but the US and Russia. Besides, the point is that there's always a shapeless threat. Today it's "Terrorism," previously it was "Drugs," and "Russian Nukes," and "Communism." Just something for the plebes to get worked up about so political leaders can manufacture clout.

    27. Re:personally by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why would removing a defensive system make the Russians feel safer? The BMD can't deal with a saturated strike like the Russians are capable of delivering, it wasn't going to be part of a integrated air defense network, if the Russians wanted to take out Eastern Europe, they could have cruise missiles the BMD sits from the Tu-22 and Tu-26, then struck Poland and whomever.

      Same goes for the US parts of it, they are good for small arsenals (DPRK, Iran), OK for medium arsenals (PRC) and poor for large arsenals (Russia, France, UK). So why exactly is a defensive system a bad thing?

      As for Russian short-range nuclear missile deployment, well they still have a truck load of ICBMs and air launched cruise missiles than can hit any "Old" European capital in 15 minutes.

    28. Re:personally by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hello! I am from the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE committee and am informing you that you have won the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE! To collect your award and prize money, please reply with your name, address, phone number, social security number, date of birth, unladen swallow weight, mother's maiden name, bank account numbers, passwords to your online banking accounts, current bank balance, Slashdot account information, social networking username and passwords, and your e-mail addresses and passwords. We look forward to giving you what you deserve!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    29. Re:personally by Xtravar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I like your little essay, I think by focusing solely on the international arena, you're missing out on a lot.

      First of all, exporting US dollars as aid to other countries just gives the rest of the world more incentive to keep our currency from collapsing.

      On to Obama -
      I didn't vote for Obama (nor did I vote for McCain), but I've started to really like him. While he may not be accomplishing a whole lot yet, he's at least bringing light (and consequentially, discussion) to a lot of topics that were overlooked during the Bush years.

      The Republicans aren't even debating his points based on actual facts, but relying on lies and character defamation.

      I can totally relate to Obama. He's just trying to get some shit done in a broken system, and a bunch of crazies are trying to bring him down for no particular reason. So yes, his changes are going slowly, but I'm optimistic that he'll get most of his agenda done. He's already doing pretty well: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

      To compare that to Bush's accomplishments is absurd. While I tend to give Bush a lot more benefit of the doubt than most people, I don't think he engaged the American public nearly as much, and in this time of cynical politics we need someone like that more than ever.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    30. Re:personally by demonbug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      GWB was dealt a shitty hand? Are you serious? After the attacks he had the kind of national solidarity and unity that any president would dream of having. The attacks were a terrible tragedy, but they put him in a nearly unprecedented position both domestically and internationally, where everyone almost had to get behind him and go with his plans.

      He then proceeded to completely fuck it all up, in every way imaginable.

      And yes, I remember the 2000 campaign. We got exactly what I expected - an incompetent, religio-fascist idiot - and we paid for it in the years following 9/11.

      That said, I can't believe Obama was even nominated for the prize after only 2 weeks in office. Maybe if he had accomplished something prior to his run for president, but he really doesn't have any credentials that would put him on the radar for the prize. This seems to be a clear use of the prize to give Obama some more political firepower to try to ram through his agenda - not what I would think of as the purpose of the prize, but it is an interesting development.

    31. Re:personally by lorenlal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The conclusion is:
      His merits for nomination were non-existent, other than intent. This is important because the work done since the nomination usually isn't factored into the final award.

      The President was nominated before any actions were taken to possibly deserve the nomination for any work done. If this had happened a year later, then there could be some sort of argument of whether or not he had accomplished anything. Right now, the argument is, "What exactly did he do in those 14 days?" I, for one, don't remember him taking a lot of action during his term as a senator either... But I'm open to any list of actions that I'm ignorant of.

      What's tragic is that, based on the timing, it just reeks of politicism. This is unfortunate since this is a very distinguished award. Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King, and Tenzin Gyatso all earned this award for a lifetime of effort and work... To hand this to someone who merely "Seemed the opposite of someone that wasn't liked" is disappointing at best.

    32. Re:personally by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Public broadcaster NRK reported that US President Barack Obama and French President Nicolas Sarkozy were among the nominees.

      Well now I see the CALIBER of the people who win these prizes. French President Sarkozy. Wow. Actually Sarkozy probably would have been a better pick, since he mediated a peace settlement between Georgia and Russia last year. Obama... he uh... um... well he... gave good speak?

      There were 203 other people up for the prize. Surely one of them would have been a better pick - like French-Colombian hostage Ingrid Betancourt and Chinese dissident Hu Jia. Or maybe the Cluster Munitions Coalition for getting nearly 100 countries to sign a treaty last year in Oslo banning cluster bombs.

      Last year's winner was former Finnish president and career diplomat Martti Ahtisaari for his efforts on several continents, over more than three decades, to resolve international conflicts. This year's winner... um... uh... not really sure.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:personally by thesandtiger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And to think, those purple fingers came at the low, low cost of hundreds of thousands of human lives! It's also really great that, since Bush fucked up the prosecution of one "just" war (Afghanistan) to try and not fuck up a completely unprovoked one (Iraq), that in a few years we might get to go back in there and liberate whatever Afghanis have survived the first liberation ALL OVER AGAIN!

      Isn't that just marvelous? I know all the people with purple fingers (and their children, many of whom don't have fingers, hands or arms thanks to Bush the Liberator) will be just totally thrilled when we come back! Yay! That is, unless they come over here, first, to let us know how happy they are having lost mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, daughters and sons in exchange for a few purple fingers and an elected puppet.

      Seriously, if you think Bush waged war to get women the vote, you're stupid and/or insane. If you think those votes actually counted, you're a bit naive. And if you think that anything stable was created over there as a result of Bush's intervention, you're living in an alternate reality.

      The AIDS in Africa thing I can sort of agree with, but you should have left it at that.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    34. Re:personally by DesScorp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All this shows is that the world community is entirely ignorant of how the US Office of the President works.

      Understand it pretty well thanks; it works very badly.

      What an incredibly stupid thing to say. Other than Switzerland, which has been free since 1291, could you point out a Democratic Republic that has been around longer the US?

      Every four years, we have passionate but free and orderly elections that result in the peaceful transfer of power, often between two very different groups of people. Perfect? Nothing is. Better than everything else? I'd say so.

      For a system that you think sucks so badly, a lot of countries seemed to have emulated our model from one degree to another.

      --
      Life is hard, and the world is cruel
    35. Re:personally by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No one has flown planes into any buildings in Europe that I know of.

      Yeah, Europe has never suffered an incident of terrorism. It just doesn't happen. Everybody loves them.

      I can't believe you got a +5 for this nonsense.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    36. Re:personally by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Probably it's for canceling the plans for the ABM (missiles/radar) in Europe, which he did last month. While it pissed off a lot of Poles, it sure made Russia feel safer.

      It didn't piss off the Poles, because the majority of Polish citizens opposed the plans in the first place, and supported Obama's decision. It pissed of the Polish government, because it presently consists mainly of the boot-lickers for the American administration (I'm sure people from UK can see some similarities here).

      Same applies to the Czechs, only the opposition there is even more pronounced.

    37. Re:personally by feepness · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and our citizens in a terrible situation with a government that does nothing. HALF of which is out to slay Obama politically because they're babies.... The republicans i'm speaking about.

      At this point the Republicans are significantly less than half.

      They do not control the executive at all, and they have no ability to block any legilsation in the Senate.

      They are, in fact, nearly powerless. Any lack of progress is solely due to Democrats.

    38. Re:personally by daemonenwind · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cite please.

      I see England has despised of the ending of the "special relationship".
      I see the French president considers Obama to be a noob.
      I see the German chancellor rejecting Obama's policies.
      I see Poland and the Czech Republic feeling abandoned.
      I see Russia and China condemning US monetary and trade policies.
      I see Iran saying Obama is just like his predecessor.
      I see Pakistan condeming US activity within its borders.

      I call bull on this supposed lovefest. The world does not respect/love America any more or less than before.
      In fact, most of those nations considered to be on the "side" of the US are despairing of the new reek of cowardice and anti-capitalism coming from the White House.

      "The world" recognizes that the end of "Cowboy Diplomacy" need not mean that the US does a deep dive into equivocation, isolationism and protectionism.

      The world - if it could be so simply encapsulated - simply views the USA in light of its own interests. As it always has, and always will.

    39. Re:personally by White+Flame · · Score: 3, Informative

      Probably it's for canceling the plans for the ABM (missiles/radar) in Europe, which he did last month.

      Seeing as the prize nominations ended in February, that's probably unlikely.

    40. Re:personally by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Gorbachev also got the award for not being the anti-peace leader (or leaders) he followed.

      I think it's hard for many Americans to understand what happened in the last eight years, and how major a catastrophe it was not just for the United States, but for the rest of the world too. Back in 1999, America was widely admired. Clinton may have had his faults on the home front, and cultural differences between the US and the rest of the world may frequently have been resented, but the United States was, for better or worse, a force for peace, democracy, and human rights.

      In 2000, there was an election. In Florida a clear majority went to the ballot box intending to support one candidate for the President, but due to an unholy combination of factors, from electoral roll "washing" to a poorly designed ballot in Palm Beach, Florida's votes ended up going to the other candidate, a combination that resulted in the least popular candidate being "elected" President.

      On the 11th of September, 2001, various locations in the US were attacked by terrorists, leading to over 3,000 deaths. Rather than treating this as a law enforcement issue, the US began the process of starting one war and preparing for another. The first war was against a country, Afghanistan, where the attack was arguably relevant, against a country harboring the de-facto leader of the group, and source of funds, that organized the attacks. The other was against a barely functional country, Iraq, run by a dictator who was barely holding on to power. This second war had no justification, and one of the first acts by the Bush administration was to invent a narrative, no matter how ridiculous, that would support an invasion of that country.

      Meanwhile in early 2002, the US government covertly sponsored a botched coup against the democratically elected leader of Venezuela, Hugo Chávez. There was no justification for this.

      During 2002, the US government continued to build a case for invading Iraq. White House officials happily encouraged the view that Iraq had something to do with 9/11. A case was built, sometimes with the help of the UK government, based upon fabricated evidence. When UN inspectors were sent into Iraq to investigate the allegations the US government had made, and generally came back convinced the US (and UK) was wrong, the UN inspectors were ridiculed and discredited. Countries opposing the war were subjected to smear campaigns and boycotts.

      In 2003, the US government, ignoring almost universal world wide opposition, illegally invaded Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of people died in the ensuing carnage.

      In 2003, the first evidence started to come out that the US was no longer respecting basic human rights when it came to its so-called "War on terror". Initially evidence came out that the US was engaging in "Rendition" programs, where people suspected of having information useful to those investigating terrorism (some suspected terrorists, some not) were handed over to countries that didn't have laws against torture. In time, it was revealed that the US had also directly tortured those it held at Guantanamo Bay.

      By 2005, the US had started releasing some of those held at Guantanamo Bay, with it becoming increasingly obvious that as many as a third of inmates had no connection whatsoever with terrorism.

      I'm not even beginning to scrape the top of the iceberg.

      Within four years of taking office, George W. Bush had turned the US from being a beacon of democracy, human rights, and a promoter of peace, into a symbol of war and human rights abuses.

      Why was the Nobel Prize awarded to Obama? Well, it might be because whatever deficiencies he's shown in not quite ending the wars and closing Guantanamo in nearly eight months of being in office, he was successfully reversed that view of the US, and changed the course of the United States so it's no longer considered a frightening, out of control, self-interested force that doesn't stand for its own values. And in some ways, whe

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  2. For being the opposite of Bush by mozumder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This win was more a rebuke to the conservatives than anything else.

    1. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

      The win was so meaningless and out-of-place that the CBS morning news anchors actually did a double-take and assumed it was someone playing a practical joke on their teleprompter when it ran across the first time.

      CBS, who have their lips glued to Obama's butt when it comes to news "reporting."

      You're right, the "win" was precisely a slam at Bush in particular. The reason? Unlike every sane part of the Nobel foundation, the "Peace Prize" committee is made up of 5 guys appointed by the Norwegian parliament, which is about as left-wing as they come and tilts the committee the same way. This is similar to when they handed it to Al Gore previously, a move widely recognized as having no basis in fact but being merely a slam at Bush because they were still pissed about the way the 2000 elections turned out.

      Of course, they're also recognized as much for people they failed to award (such as Gandhi, whose death finally shocked them into saying "oops, no living person exists qualified for the award" for a year because according to the terms of Alfred Nobel's will they cannot award the Peace Prize posthumously) as their routine mistakes (such as Yasser Arafat, awarded a "Peace Prize" and then proceeding to go on to lead over 20 more years of terrorist attacks).

    2. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It would be difficult, given your obvious alienation, to understand the award for what it is. Richard Lugar, who's also been an advocate for nuclear disarmament was also ignored.

      But if building a bridge to the Muslim community across the world-- which numbers one in four inhabitants on this earth-- counts, then the combination of the two is somewhat extraordinary, given the prior administration's complete polarization of most of the world, three wars, and the possible nuclear proliferation of frightening proportions.

      Ganhi might have been a good recipient. Posthumously, he can't get it. Bummer. I doubt he'd have accepted it anyway.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    3. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd agree that the allocation of Nobel peace prizes is pretty shoddy; but blaming left-wing bias seems silly. Henry Kissinger got one, after all, and he isn't exactly a lefty hero. So did mother Teresa who(despite some well publicised, if somewhat ghoulish, charity work) was about as far right as they come.

    4. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by Sgt.+B · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If someone you worked with broke something that is really hard to fix and refused to fix it themselves even with being given more time, would you hesitate to thank the person who steps forward and fixes it? When you thank them, would you be looking spitefully at the wrong doer rather than at the person you are praising? That's a really sad view.

      They are praising what he has accomplished in such short a time. He may still accomplish more but make no mistake, he already has changed the negotiating environment of the world and that is what he is being awarded for.

      The affect a person has on a given subject is just as relevant as the amount of effort. Don't forget Al Gore won this award for simply doing a power point presentation based on the many years of hard work and scientific deduction of dozens of people around the world. Basically, he talked in front of a screen. But the fact that HE did it brought so much attention to the subject of climate change that it moved it forward in global priority. That's what got him his award.

    5. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by Moryath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Henry Kissinger won in 1973. The committee was not nearly so left-wing back then (neither was the appointing body).

      Mother Teresa rarely stepped into politics and her work was about charity towards the poor. What's your basis for calling her "about as far right as they come"? Especially since if you read the official Catholic Catechism (the teachings and stated opinions of the Catholic Church, which she held as her guide for morality) they actually come down left-of-center as well.

    6. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The largest part of the Muslim world isn't the picture you painted. There are large ideological differences between Muslim and 'western' ideals. His first act, if you'll recall, was to let the Muslim world know that the US wasn't at war with them, rather the factions that support terrorism.

      Your specific grievances with various Muslim factions can also be translated to various Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh, Jainist, and Buddhist factions. Orthodoxy sucks. Yet condemning an entire culture because of the warts within it does no one good.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    7. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by NeoThermic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Look at the source -- it's a British newspaper.

      The BBC is not, has never been and can never be a newspaper. It is a publicly funded broadcast news outlet which has far less bias (read: practically none) than any US news network you can name, and is a trusted news source around the world.

      Calling the BBC dubious is... dubious at best.

      --
      Use my link above, or to view my server, NeoThermic.com
    8. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by gnud · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can read more about the five guys in question at http://nobelpeaceprize.org/en_GB/nomination_committee/members/

      These are not very left-tilted politicians in Norway. One is a former chairman of the conservative party, and another a former representative from the rightmost party currently in the Storting.

    9. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am a fan of Obama, but to deny a left-wing influence is to deny the facts. The Nobel Peace Committee is appointed by the Norwegian Parliament, which is (at least currently) left leaning. 3 of the 5 members of the committee are considered left of center -- and that is in Norway...on the US spectrum, that means they are pinko, commie, hippies.

      I am not sure what the politics of Norway were like back when Kissinger won, but the political leanings of the committee will clearly change as the political leanings of Norway change.

    10. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You condemn by anecdote. Can I tell you about Leviticus, or perhaps Jim Crow?

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    11. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

      Try again.

      The point of the Nobel Prizes is to recognize people who do good for mankind. Three of them are for advancement in the sciences. One is for "in the field of literature the most outstanding work of an idealistic tendency." One, a little more nebulous (and reputedly a form of attempted moral consolation after Nobel witnessed the horrors his invention of dynamite had caused), is for the advancement of "Peace" (exact wording: "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity among nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.")

      Nobel's will specifies the following things:
      - the prizes are to be awarded for something already accomplished.
      - the prizes are to be awarded to someone living (it can't be awarded posthumously, which is why there was a "bye year" when Gandhi died and the committee realized they'd royally fucked up and missed their chance to recognize his work).
      - One is to be awarded for physics, chemistry, medicine, literature, and "international peace."

      In the sciences, the time lag is tremendous. This is partly a result of some early awards being given to "advances" or "discoveries" which were later discredited; the downside is that a number of possible recipients have been passed over because they died before the committee had fully vetted them. Literature's time lag has evolved as the committee shifted to covering a body of long work from an author, rather than a single book.

      The "Peace Prize" is the most politically charged, and many propositions have come forth to alter it and prevent bad awards being made. Left-wingers go after the 1973 choice of Henry Kissinger (for negotiating the Vietnam peace accords) based on his involvement in other conflicts. As early as 1905, the choice to award it to President Roosevelt (for negotiating the end of the Russo-Japanese War) was criticized because his administration was involved in a bloody revolt-suppression in the Phillipines at the same time. Right-wingers criticize the political handing of the award to Al Gore. The choice to give it to Yasser Arafat, given that he kept leading and encouraging terror attacks for years after (also, because it was awarded for the Oslo Accords but Arafat was recorded saying on Palestinian national radio the next week that signing the Accords was a sham on his part), is hit often, as is the award given to anti-semite Jimmy Carter in 2002. Rigoberta Menchu nearly had her 1992 prize revoked after it was revealed that much of her autobiography (which was part of the basis given in the committee's written statement on why she received the award) was a fabrication. Cordell Hull, given the award in 1945 for helping found the UN, had 5 years prior been the major decision-maker (Secretary of State) in FDR's administration when they sent a ship full of Jewish refugees back to Europe (most of those refugees then were killed in the Holocaust).

      So yeah, there's ample tradition on many fronts to criticize the awarding of the Peace Prize. Given that the nomination process closed when Obama was only in office eleven days, I think anyone from any side is justified in saying that giving it to Obama is premature, since the requirements are that you have already done something worth giving you the award, not that you are "expected to" do certain things.

    12. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

      His actions didn't represent those words. Obama's trying, or so I see it.

      Actually, Bush's actions did represent those words. Note that he only invaded two countries, instead of, say, all of them. And if we were really all that offended by Sharia Law, there are a lot of countries we missed.

      Obama on the other hand, is doing what, exactly, in the way of "trying"? Pulling out of Iraq? That was agreed to by Bush the year before Obama became President.

      Reinforcing the troops in Afghanistan? Yah, Obama did do that, but I'm not sure how that is really indicative of him trying to be nicer to Muslims.

      Face it, so far what we have from Obama is some speeches and a lot of hope. I've nothing against speeches, but they don't get things done in and of themselves, and hope is a good thing.

      Hope just isn't on the list of qualifications for the Nobel Peace Prize.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    13. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll bite ... what has been accomplished? What has Obama done to change the world and promote peace?

      Go ahead, google for it, I'll wait while you try to find something.

      Al Gore won based on the exact same thing Obama has won on, ignorant morons making the selection based on political agenda.

      Obama was nominated 2 weeks into his presidency, before he'd even got the chair in the oval office warm yet. This has nothing to do with what he accomplished, if you think it does you need to get a seeing eye dog or uncover your eyes because you're completely blind.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    14. Re:For being the opposite of Bush by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The keyword was: universally. It's not universal at all.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  3. Lowering of standards? by stevev007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember when the Nobel Prize used to mean something, when people won it many years after tremendous accomplishments. It was so exclusive that the best of the best never knew if they would ever receive it. Now it seems you get it for not being like the guy before you.

    1. Re:Lowering of standards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If Yasser Arafat won a nobel prize then anyone can.

    2. Re:Lowering of standards? by Rhaban · · Score: 5, Funny

      I remember when the Nobel Prize used to mean something, when people won it many years after tremendous accomplishments. It was so exclusive that the best of the best never knew if they would ever receive it.

      I feel the same about epic gear in WoW.

    3. Re:Lowering of standards? by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's even simpler - it's available to ANYONE who makes appropriate liberal noises, whether it matters or not. Being staunchly on the left wing helps tremendously.

      It's ALL about appearances.
      1985 International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War
      1988 United Nations Peace-Keeping Forces
      1990 Mikhail Gorbachev
      1993 Nelson Mandela
      1994 Yasser Arafat
      1995 Josef Rotblat
                Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs
      1999 Médecins Sans Frontières
      2001 United Nations
                  Kofi Annan
      2002 Jimmy Carter
      2005 International Atomic Energy Agency
                  Mohamed ElBaradei
      2007 Al Gore
                    Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
      2009 Barack Obama - nominated after TWO WEEKS IN OFFICE. ...it's a continuing list of the incompetent, irrelevant, and self-promoting.

      In that sense, it's appropriate, considering the whole PRIZE is merely a sop to the Nobel family's conscience and an effort to whitewash their connection with the invention of dynamite.

      --
      -Styopa
    4. Re:Lowering of standards? by Danse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is quite transparently a proclamation of how sick much of the world was of the Bush administration, and simultaneously an endorsement of Obama's plans. I mean the guy hasn't even been in office for a year yet. He hasn't been able to get anything peace-prize-worthy done. Not that the prize has actually meant anything for quite a long time now anyway.

      Honestly, if I were him, I'd be pretty pissed about this. He really doesn't need this kind of controversy right now. They've essentially used him to make a political statement, and it's just going to cause problems at a time when he's got more than enough to deal with. It'll get the conservatives all bristly and the libs all full of themselves, and then it becomes even harder to get anything done. All for a prize that I'm sure he knows is bullshit, and will be completely hollow for him.

      Thanks a lot assholes.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  4. I think he may possibly deserver the prize by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think he may possibly deserver the prize, but its too early to say. Shouldn't they have waited to see if he manages to sort out Iraq, bring peace to the Middle East or something like that? After all if he does manage it now there will be nothing to reward him with.

    1. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by TitusC3v5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree that it may be too soon. But he has made some good changes so far. He's introduced a radical shift in US policy, going from a big stick diplomacy to one based on respect (even if the opposing country does not deserve it).

      I don't like how he's handled everything, but as far as his international relations policy goes, I'm rather happy.

      --
      And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
    2. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by thePig · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It could be construed in another way. Being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, now Obama will have to think twice before going to any war from now on. Basically by increasing the load of expectations on him, I think the committee is trying to direct his hand to a carrot when both carrot and stick are viable alternatives.

      --
      rajmohan_h@yahoo.com
    3. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by NoYob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that it may be too soon. But he has made some good changes so far. He's introduced a radical shift in US policy, going from a big stick diplomacy to one based on respect (even if the opposing country does not deserve it). I don't like how he's handled everything, but as far as his international relations policy goes, I'm rather happy.

      But to get the Peace Prize for it?

      Do you honestly think what he's done is on the level with Martin Luther King? Or Mother Theresa? Or Linus Pauling?

      Please, this prize is getting cheaper by the year.

      --
      It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    4. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by Jhon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think my 9 year old son may possibly deserve the prize, but it's too early to say.

      Seriously? 8 months in to an administration which has failed to do most of what it promised? With a supra-majority? After a senate "career" which to be GENEROUS would be to claim it was nearly worthless (how many "present" votes did he cast? How many did he miss?)

      Obama will no more bring "peace" to the middle east than Nixon brought peace to Vietnam and Cambodia -- but I agree, if he DOES pull this particular hat out of a rabbit, then yes -- he would deserve it.

      If the award was about intentions, why not award it to Lenin, Hoover or the Pope? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

    5. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by bheer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > he's only 8 months into his first term.

      It's worse than that. The deadline to be nominated is Feb 1. Even assuming he was nominated right near the deadline, he had been in office barely _10 days_ when someone, impressed with all that he has accomplished, nominated him for this award. Jeez. Obviously, someone clearly thought the election of an Democrat/African-American with good oratorial skills was a major contribution to world peace in and of itself.

      This is exactly the kind of condescension I as a person of color can live without.

    6. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by catchblue22 · · Score: 3, Informative

      From what I understand, Barack Obama is personally responsible for the recent push to increase nuclear disarmament. This is fairly well known in diplomatic circles. I suspect this was a prime reason why he was awarded this prize.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    7. Re:I think he may possibly deserver the prize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even if that's true, how much of that was done by February, when the deadline for nominations was?

  5. Joke by hansamurai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Winning the peace prize by sending 21,000 more troops to Afghanistan while mulling even more? What a load.

    1. Re:Joke by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Informative

      What the... how is abandoning a country desperately in need of aid and peacekeepers a *good* idea? Is the situation in Afghanistan messy as hell? Yes, absolutely. Is working to stabilize the country and drive out the Taliban and Al Qaeda the right thing to do? Abso-fucking-lutely.

      Or are you one of those folks that thinks that military intervention into, say, the Sudan or East Timor, is the wrong thing to do because it involves soldiers and guns?

    2. Re:Joke by Ksevio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obama didn't start the war in Afghanistan, he was left with it, and just abandoning the country to the Taliban and Al Qaeda would be irresponsible and move the world the opposite way of peace.

  6. Waitaminute. Didn't we just bomb by wiredog · · Score: 5, Funny

    the moon? How is that peaceful? The Raelians are going to be pissed!

    Oh well, on the bright side, I can now say that my President is a Man of Peace like Henry Kissinger, Yasser Arafat, and Teddy Roosevelt.

  7. Isn't the cut off for nomination February 1st? by Lester67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That is one hell of a first 11 days.

    (Or one hell of a consolation prize for not scoring the Olympics.)

    (Or an ironic thing to give a man who declared war on the moon.)

    (Or one hell of a band-aid for being satirized on SNL)

    1. Re:Isn't the cut off for nomination February 1st? by Churla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, the cut off is Feb 1st.

      Which means he was nominated while people were still in the international post-coital bliss of his inauguration.

      As for the moon, I think the last thing we want to do it bomb them, they've been known to throw rocks back at us....

      --
      I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
  8. I'm an Obama supporter but... by arkham6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What exactly has he done to deserve the prize? Would it not have been better to wait until he got done with his presidency first?

    As someone said on TPM, this sounds more like a 'Congratulations for not picking McCain' award.

  9. For what? by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Informative

    Seriously, what on earth has he done to win such a prize? He has brokered no treaties, he has resolved no conflicts, he hasn't even particularly changed foreign policy with Iraq and Afghanistan. Even the crown jewel of his agenda, closing Gitmo. Having gotten into office he's discovered the world is more complicated that a sound bite for a political stage allows.

    For all his talk his biggest accomplishment so far is bailing out the banks to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars - if anything that would be economic. I'm no W supporter, but what possible cause is there for this other than anti-W sentiment?

    1. Re:For what? by bheer · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Seriously, what on earth has he done to win such a prize?

      He has delivered some very good speeches, you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:For what? by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      he hasn't even particularly changed foreign policy with Iraq and Afghanistan

      I took this news as a sign that the Nobel committee determined that the ongoing lengthy engagements with Iraq and Afghanistan are a bloody means to a peaceful end. I don't really share this opinion and I think a lot of people in the world would (similarly) support the removal of the Taliban but not whatever you want to call Iraq right now. The interesting thing is that they should have given Bush the Nobel Prize for Peace if they felt this way last year ... he started those wars after all. The only other explanation is that these wars were largely overlooked. I only draw dangerous discrediting conclusions if I look at the situation logically.

      Having gotten into office he's discovered the world is more complicated that a sound bite for a political stage allows.

      I think every president discovers this. Obama's Responsible, Phased Withdrawal from Iraq (biggest of many reasons I voted for him) reads thusly:

      The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began.

      I honestly have heard no word of this. I guess he got into office and things got too real too fast for him? No word on that although I haven't been scouring his speeches. Now if that's why they gave him the Peace Prize, I'd agree with them. But that was a paragraph buried in his campaign promises (and not in progress yet), not something he's done.

      I'd suspect this award was given out for the purposes of sparking controversy or to put the onus on Obama to become what they want him to become -- a peacemaker. I agree this was not a prudent decision although I don't see it as critically as most people. It is just an award after all.

      --
      My work here is dung.
    3. Re:For what? by tverbeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Peace Prize committee generally gives awards for either of two reasons:

      1) As a backward-looking life-time achievement award for someone who has a long history or some key game-changing accomplishment on their resume. e.g. Mother Theresa, Elie Weisel, Jimmy Carter, Mandela/de Klerk.

      2) As a forward-looking attempt to focus global attention on something/someone/somewhere, and to endorse ongoing efforts to (hopefully) accomplish something. e.g. Arafat/Peres/Rabin, Aung San Suu Kyi, Wangari Muta Maathai, Gore et al.

      This is an example of the latter. Is it political? Of course it is; the Peace Prize has always been political.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  10. A little Chinese wisdom by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set." - Lin Yutang

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:A little Chinese wisdom by robably · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or rise.

    2. Re:A little Chinese wisdom by alta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, when the sun is about to rise, it's dark. There are no shadows. It would be just after the sun rises that there would be big shadows. But that doesn't flow worth a damn. So... like the OP was saying, the sun is setting.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
  11. A Bold Move by FlyingBishop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "This is the first time the award is given for wishful thinking," -Danny Danon, Israeli politician.

    This is, I think, a general reaction from a lot of people, but it doesn't really line up with the history of the prize. In 1987, for example the prize was awarded to Óscar Arias, a Costa Rican president, for making some strong gestures that he would stop the Nicaraguan war that had been raging for a decade, fueled by the United States. This raised Arias' profile, and gave him the political capital to broker a peace deal in 1988.

    In a lot of ways, I think that this is a better use of the prize; not to recognize achievements after the fact, but to encourage and foster new achievements that might not have happened without the award. Whether this will affect Obama's actions, who can say, but he'll certainly feel a little awkward now if he doesn't get anything done soon.

  12. What? by StayFrosty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can they give someone the Nobel Peace Prize for something he has not done yet? The US is still in Iraq and Afghanistan and we are no closer to pulling out than we were 8 months ago. From Wikipedia: "According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded 'to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.'" What has Barak Obama done (not talked about doing) in the last 8 months that makes him worthy of the prize this year?

    --
    "Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
  13. strange by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 4, Funny

    does this graph
    http://app.sgizmo.com/chart/189342-LC02FT150W995AC4HSAOQWU8WZACL1&crt=4&rspid=46741811
    seem just a little odd? its from the washington post poll about Obama deserving the nobel prize.

    --
    I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
  14. Turning back the doomdsday clock by Feef+Lovecraft · · Score: 3, Insightful

    However, I would love if President Obama showed the world how good he is by refusing to accept it stating he has so much more work he still needs to do. However isn't Will Smith giving out the award? I don't think I could refuse an award by Will Smith so I can't blame President Obama if he reluctantly accepts. For what it's worth I still think he is worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize, even this soon in as long as he can deliver on the good strong start he has made.

  15. Obama Ghandi? by Giometrix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I find it interesting that Obama has received the peace prize, but not Ghandi. What a joke.

    --
    Download free e-books, lectures, and tutorials at bookgoldmine.com
  16. Nobel Foundation is hemorrhaging reputation. by mayko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way: the capital, invested in safe securities by my executors, shall constitute a fund, the interest on which shall be annually distributed in the form of prizes to those who, during the preceding year, shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind."

    I don't see how he could even be a consideration. I think Obama has peace intentions (although an ongoing war doesn't lend itself to that) but in no way has it impacted the world enough. The only way this could be a worse choice is if they gave one to Al Gore. (Fuck!)

    I used to have an enormous respect and admiration for the Nobel Foundation, but like anything with good intentions in this world, it has fallen to disgusting political prostitution.

  17. Missed opportunity by McDutchie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Barack Obama missed a golden opportunity to posit himself as a great man. He could have refused the prize, citing the obvious fact that he has not achieved anything of substance yet. That would have gained him instant worldwide respect, while exposing the Nobel institution as the farce that it has become. But now, Obama is looking like yet another politician joining yet another little prestige club of politicians.

    1. Re:Missed opportunity by xednieht · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Very true, a noble man makes noble plans, and by noble deeds he stands.

      Dear Mr. President, if you don't give it back at least find some balls and earn it. We have two war criminals that sacrificed the lives of over 4,000 troops on the Altar Of Lies. If America is to lead the world we must do so on a foundation of honor and justice. Restore America's honor.

      --

      Hope is the currency of fools
    2. Re:Missed opportunity by Seumas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, this news was only announced within the past few hours and I don't hold the president to any obligation to speak on the subject at 4:00am. I would not be surprised if he wisely commented on it to some degree today or this week and dropped in a "I clearly have a lot to live up to" or something of that nature, since he and his advisers clearly are aware of the massive wave of "what the hell for?!" from the lunatic fringes, the supporters and the rest of us who simply don't care one way or the other.

      It's a shame that the award couldn't be given to some people who had truly accomplished real quantifiable contributions to humanity through determination, leadership, and selflessness. CNN has a great award show every year where they showcase just a few such people and in my opinion, all of them are more deserving than any politician ever has or will be.

    3. Re:Missed opportunity by Rary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Barack Obama missed a golden opportunity to posit himself as a great man. He could have refused the prize, citing the obvious fact that he has not achieved anything of substance yet.

      How has he already missed this opportunity? How do you know he won't do just that? The announcement was only made this morning, and he hasn't even issued an official statement yet.

      I'm not saying that I think he will refuse the prize, but here we all are criticizing the Nobel committee for being premature, and now you're saying he's missed an opportunity to make a statement by refusing the prize when it's only been a few hours since he found out about it and we don't even know what his response is going to be.

      Give the man a chance to eat his breakfast and put his tie on before you criticize him for what he didn't do.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  18. Re:proletariat by epiphani · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't jump the gun... with insane health reforms he might incite the US to civil war. I know I'm more annoyed at him than at W.

    Meanwhile the rest of the world is looking at this and wondering what the hell your country is thinking.

    I don't think he deserves the award this early, but being honest, he is presenting a far better image to the rest of the world than has been done in the past decade. Some of his speeches in the middle east reflect a balanced and measured approach without historical alliances clouding the issues.

    And civil war over health care? Are you honestly that insane?

    --
    .
  19. Here we go again. by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not news for nerds. It's news for CNN, Fox, etc. Please stop trying to turn this site into Digg.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  20. Re:proletariat by Rennt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, so in your world affordable health care is "insane" but blowing billions of dollars on a war is business as usual? Where do you people come from?

  21. Hillary? by bckspc · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wait, isn't the Secretary of State responsible for US foreign policy?

    Hillary Clinton screwed again!

    1. Re:Hillary? by cthulu_mt · · Score: 4, Funny

      Thank's jerk, now I'm imagining Hillary naked.

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
  22. For happiness and rainbows, that's what by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 5, Funny

    Seriously, what on earth has he done to win such a prize? He has brokered no treaties, he has resolved no conflicts, he hasn't even particularly changed foreign policy with Iraq and Afghanistan. Even the crown jewel of his agenda, closing Gitmo. Having gotten into office he's discovered the world is more complicated that a sound bite for a political stage allows.

    But...but...he's a really nice guy. And he gives great speeches. And when he's making a point, he uses this fantastic faraway gaze and extremely compelling hand gestures. You can't teach that.

    You say Obama doesn't deserve the Prize after 8 months in office and no major accomplishments? Foo, I say! I have personally seen him give more kittens and rainbows to the needy than any world leader. When his talks with other world leaders break down, at least those leaders go away thinking 'Wow, that man has a fantastic handshake. That may be the best handshake I've ever experienced'. And you know, maybe years down the line, they'll be more likely to roll over for us thanks to that handshake.

    Really, I think it's great that the Nobel committee is now awarding prizes for trying a little bit for a little while. Sort of reflects the reduced standards in our schools where kids get diplomas for sitting in a room and learning nothing for 12 years. This gives little Johnny hope that he doesn't really need to accomplish anything in life, but that if he at least tries a little for 8 months, he can achieve his dream of an increasingly watered-down prize.

    Thank you, Nobel Committee. You give hope to the mediocre everywhere.

  23. Re:What a Croc OF Shit by snspdaarf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, I am never ashamed to be an American, even if I find the behavior of some of us to be an embarrassment, and I think it is too early to call Obama the worst President Mi>ever, but I do agree awarding him the Peace prize is bullshit.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  24. bullshit by smoker2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I for one consider the Nobel shark, jumped.

  25. Re:proletariat by nutshell42 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yeah, with private insurance for all we've done the first step that leads to being a socialist hellhole like the Soviet Union, or Germany. If this goes on there will be a public option, the US is gonna end up like Cuba, or the UK.

    France, Canada, Japan, all engulfed in civil strife, with the walking dead, condemned by bureaucratic Death Panels, roaming the streets and hordes of atheists burning churches.

    Thankfully the insurance industry is ready to pay billions to upstanding Congressmen and selfless community organizers so they can spread the truth.

    --
    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
  26. Re:All hail his Most Worshipful Obama! by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course he can't get everything done and needs to make comprimises but he is the best thing since Kenedy. Period.

    Let me guess... You get your information from Fox News?

    Your spelling and Kennedy worship suggests to me that you get your information from MSNBC. See how easy it is to dismiss someone when you can just stereotype them rather then engage in an actual dialog with them?

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  27. Re:proletariat by ZekoMal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You should be a tad more disgusted that the glorified wasting of money to kill people across the world is considered "less annoying" than having the possibility of a slightly higher bill, or slightly higher taxes, or maybe, just maybe, it being a better choice.

    Just remember, you said it. You prefer throwing billions at killing people than throwing billions at giving everyone health care.

  28. Even my 8 year-old knows this is a sham! by Morris+Thorpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This really just happened.
    As I read this thread, I said "Obama won the Noble Peace Prize" and he immediately shot back, "Why? He hasn't stopped the war or anything."

    I am not taking about an indoctrinated child poised to defend (or attack) certain ideologies. Hell, I don't even think he knows what the Nobel is...but he sure can figure out that Peace Prize and "ongoing war" should not go together. Pretty perceptive.

  29. Re:proletariat by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wow, so in your world affordable health care is "insane"

    What makes you think that any of the bills currenting pending before Congress are going to make health care affordable? All they are going to accomplish is to transfer the burden of paying for overpriced health care to the Government. The reason that health care is so expensive is because large bureaucracies (public and private) separate the consumer from the cost of the product.

    Take a look at health care procedures that aren't covered by Uncle Sam and/or private insurance. LASIK surgery, cosmetic surgery, etc all exist in a competitive marketplace and have all come down in price since being introduced. Why is it that I can now have someone operate on my eyes for less cost than my last round of blood work?

    Health care "reform" that doesn't address health care inflation is no reform at all. It's just going to socialize the problem, which will in the long term lead to either rationing or bankruptcy.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  30. Congratulations, but... by pmontra · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... they should have waited the end of his presidency, some more years to assess the results of his actions and then decide what to do. What they did is detrimental to the authoritativeness of the Nobel Peace itself.

  31. The road to hell is paved with what now? by Follier · · Score: 5, Insightful


    I'll have to start a blog outlining all the things I want to do, like solving hunger, cleaning up all the pollution from the ocean, and bringing peace and love to all mankind.

    If I get enough subscribers that I become famous, I can get the Nobel Peace Prize too! And I don't even have to leave my desk.

    1. Re:The road to hell is paved with what now? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, but you're not in a position to solve hunger, clean up pollution, and bring peace. Obama is.

      Obama isn't in a position to "bring peace". Peace, like marriage, requires that both parties are willing to work towards it.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  32. Next year Myth Buster get the nobel prize by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 3, Funny

    In chemistry for their work with Mentos & Cola. Also: Michael Moore - Literature Nancy Pelosi - medicine Osama Bin Laden - Peace Bill Nye - physics

  33. Re:proletariat by lzed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Last time I checked the Constitution gave the Federal government the authority to blow billions of dollars on war and no authority to spend one red cent on health care (And yes I believe Medicare is unconstitutional too). The quantity of resources spent is an irrelevant metric to determine weather the Constitution permits something.

  34. Re:Norwegian sell-out for celebrities and stars by gnud · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This award is a mistake, no matter what you think of Obama.

    The wiki's translation of Nobel's will (and it looks good, after a cursory glance at the original swedish) reads:

    [...] to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.

    Note the past tense.
    President Obama has done nothing at all to reduce standing armies, and his work towards a fraternity between nations is in its infancy.

  35. That word, peace by ekimminau · · Score: 3, Funny

    Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    --
    Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
  36. Re:proletariat by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wow, so in your world affordable health care is "insane" but blowing billions of dollars on a war is business as usual? Where do you people come from?

    Have you actually looked at the Health Care Reforms that have been proposed in Congress? They're not going to make health care more affordable, they're not going to provide universal coverage. If they pass as written, the main thing they're going to do is increase the revenues of the current Health Insurance companies by about 10%.

    Surely you remember those current Health Insurance companies? The ones largely blamed for the problems with American healthcare? Yah, those guys will make more money, the rest of us will spend more money, and Congress will call it good.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  37. One needn't be president to start the meter by stomv · · Score: 4, Informative

    Obama began working for peace long before inauguration day. He fought to refine the death penalty in Illinois as a state senator to reduce chances of the innocent being put to death, and was largely responsible for brokering the deal that did just that. He worked for nuclear non-proliferation in the US Senate, working with Lugar (R-IN) for funding and policy to destroy assorted weapons. On the campaign trail, his words (yes, words!) spoke of a new American policy, one of peace.

    Now, maybe you feel that those deeds are sufficient, maybe you don't. But, to suggest that his body of work under consideration can only begin once he was inaugurated president is sheer folly.

  38. Someone prep the Secret Service... by bornyesterday · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yo Obama, I'm really happy for you & I'm gonna let you finish, but Mahatma Gandhi had one of the best Nobel Prize candidacies of all time!

  39. Re:Obama Ghandi? by Kjella · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was a screwup done in the 1940s, or even earlier. Not awarding a price the year he died is as close as they can ever come after Nobel's instructions. So it happened and they'll probably still talk about it in another 100 years but the past can not be changed. It's not Obama vs Gandhi, it's Obama vs other candidates of 2009 vs not awarding one at all. There's a lot of lesser candidates that have gotten price because there wasn't any better, perhaps that is the problem?

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  40. But thats the rub by Shivetya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    he isn't trying to make health care more affordable. None of them are. They are about consolidating the power of the Federal Government.

    If they were trying to make health care more affordable they would have first...
    1. Removed the blocks put in place so you cannot buy or take your private health insurance across state lines.
    2. Medical malpractice and tort reform, because the amount of insurance needed to practice some medicines is beyond reasonable
    3. Clean up the fraud in Medicare so more of the money is actually available for treatment
    4. Expanded HSA so individuals can make their own health care decisions.

    The real fault of the US's current health care is that severe medical hardships can strip a family of all their property - something that state medical systems already do (at least you can go bankrupt fighting a private insurer but states still take property)

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  41. To a US viewer, the BBC is biased to the left by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everything has bias. Stop even attempting to claim that anything is objective. People use bias as a way to attack the value of what is being said. The truth is that everything said or written carries a spin intended by the original author. Whether this affects the veracity of what is said is an entirely separate matter.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:To a US viewer, the BBC is biased to the left by Etrias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit. Just because this is the way American news has gone doesn't mean it is the status quo for the rest of the world. Also, just because you disagree with what they're reporting doesn't mean there is bias. The BBC World News service is unparalleled in it's coverage.

    2. Re:To a US viewer, the BBC is biased to the left by lwsimon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I get my news from a number of sources, from Al Jezeera and the India Times to the BBC, from CNN to Fox, from Freerepublic to the Daily Kos.

      BBC has just as much bias as any other outlet - only their bias is in what stories are chosen, as opposed to the commentary upon them.

      Any nerd should understand this - GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. You have to collect news from multiple sources and weigh the actual facts, not the commentary.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
  42. Nothing new. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "peace" prize jumped the shark a long time ago. Wilson, Roosevelt, Kissinger, Arafat? Obama should decline the prize as an insult.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  43. Re:Norwegian sell-out for celebrities and stars by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm both a Democrat and an Obama supporter (Feel free to read my comment history if you think I'm bullshiting to make myself sound more sympathetic, it goes back years and is pretty firmly liberal throughout), and I agree. If it was 7 or 8 years from now and Obama was coming out of office having accomplished some of the many things he has promised to do, I would be behind this 100%, as it is I was fairly shocked. As a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if the man himself were shocked. I mean this is one of the greatest awards a man can receive, and it's wording is distinctly results oriented. Give him a chance to get the results, then give him an award.

    --
    I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  44. A little premature? by TheLink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A lot premature. Barack has accomplished very little in terms of peace. They could have just waited 10 years and then give him a prize if he really did anything good. They've been giving many of these prizes years after the actual achievements, so what's the rush?

    After all, the USA could still start a war with Iran, and so much for world peace then. You can say they are making nukes for all they want, but there's no real evidence yet[1].

    [1] http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/MediaAdvisory/2009/MA200919.html

    --
    1. Re:A little premature? by ArcherB · · Score: 3, Funny

      A lot premature. Barack has accomplished very little in terms of peace. They could have just waited 10 years and then give him a prize if he really did anything good. They've been giving many of these prizes years after the actual achievements, so what's the rush?

      I'm actually shocked that this was not given out in October of 2012, a month before the next presidential election. I guess he'll get the newly formed Nobel Prize for Awesomeness then. (They'll probably call it the Prize for Obamaness after that)

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  45. Re:Yeah right by jefu · · Score: 3, Informative

    He was nominated for the peace prize, but did not win. It only takes one submission to be nominated so the bar is probably pretty low - there were over 200 nominees this year. Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini were all nominated, but didn't win.

  46. His address to the muslim world by Skythe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-s3XnE9TmA&feature=channel
    May be part of the reason. I know this does not constitute the only reason for getting the prize, but i'd say it's a contributing factor. He's trying to mend the strained relations between the US and Middle East (Read: Iran) created by the last administration to stop things like war from happening.

  47. Re:Heh... by hargrand · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Which party is telling us what we can and cannot think? Which party is telling us what we can say and listen to?. Which party, rather than actually doing something to actuallly help people out of poverty is instead keeping them from that end state?

    You misunderstand the notion of Republicanism in its purest sense (i.e. I'm talking about the conservative core of the Republican Party, not RINO's who's only goal is to grow government slighly more slowly than the other guys). It is intended to create an environment where equal opportunity exists for all; it does not guarantee equal outcomes for all, nor should it. That's been tried, and it has failed dismally where ever it's been tried.

  48. Who else was nominated? by slashmojo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm curious who the other nominees were that lost out to this bizarre result.. were they so unworthy?

  49. Re:proletariat by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You need it to live, therefore providers can charge pretty much whatever they'd like.

    No, providers can charge whatever they'd like because you have no idea what the service actually costs and people have no incentive to argue with them over the price because they aren't paying it to begin with. Do you really think hospitals would get away with charging $40 for dressings (the line item from my recent visit to the ER) if people actually saw that bill and had to pay it?

    If you believe the free market has any role in the health care system, you might want to learn something about how it works.

    I know plenty about how the health care system works and it isn't anything remotely close to a free market. Go read this article in The Atlantic and educate yourself. I think you'll find it informative.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  50. The peace prize has really declined, hasn't it? by JSBiff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've noticed for the past few years that the Nobel Peace Prize committee seems to definitely be moving in a direction not of honoring people for recognized achievements, but instead using the prize, seemingly, to try to promote an agenda. The parent's point is a good one - Obama hasn't really done that *much* yet, to promote peace - though I'm sure he has nobel, err, noble intentions, the actual results don't seem to be in yet.

  51. Re:Heh... by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

    Which party is telling us what we can and cannot think?

    Seems you're trying to be misleading. The link you give isn't about limiting what you can think. (Until mind reading is a scientific reality, that will never be possible.) It's about telling you you can't be violent.

    Which party is telling us what we can say and listen to?

    Likewise you misrepresent that. It's not about telling you what you can say. It's about preventing the dishonesty of party political propaganda masquerading as news programmes. Certainly a side effect of that is limiting what you can listen to, if for some reason you prefer being lied to with propaganda rather than having a proper news channel.

    Of course given your distortions, it's odds on that you are very fond of the propaganda channel known as Fox News. So one can see that you would indeed be disappointed to see a Fairness Doctrine. But for people who think democracy shouldn't be distorted by blatant deception aimed at the ignorant, it's nothing but a good thing.

  52. Re:Heh... by Moryath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The conservative party caters to BIG FUCKING BUSINESS

    Oh really? Let's see... coal mining? Yep, big business. Banks? Big, big fucking business. Media conglomerates? Yep, big business. Movie companies? Hell yeah. Big music labels? Yep.

    What do all of those have in common? Oh yeah, they overwhelmingly vote and donate to the Democrats...

    They could care less about the working stiff who earns less than $75,000/year.

    Hm. Every time my taxes go up, it's Democrats doing it. I make less than $50,000/year. They raise my taxes, I have less money to support my family. Yet I "make too much" for most government-given benefits. I don't think the Democrats care about me very much at all...

    If you have more than 5 million in the bank, and your income is over 1/4 million, yes, I can see why you would prefer the republicans. But, don't tell me that you're a "working man". That bird don't fly. Graduating from an Ivy League college, just to join the Good Old Boy's club doesn't qualify you as a "working man". Never has, never will.

    I make under $50,000/year. I didn't go to an Ivy League college, I paid my own way from a Tier 2 college on partial merit-based (National Merit Scholar) assistance. If I had been female or black, I was told by most of the places I applied that (a) if I wasn't accepted, being female/black would have gotten me in and I was rejected so they could meet minority-quota, or (b) I was accepted but all their scholarship money was reserved for female or "minority" students and the basic NMS assistance was all I'd get out of them.

    Fuck the "Good Old Boys" club, and equally fuck the "we discriminate on race/sex" crowd. As the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court has said, "the best way to stop discriminating based on race is to stop discriminating based on race."

    My objection to the Democrats is simple: from the time I have been able to work (and I started working at age 15) every time they get power, my taxes go up. They jacked up the sales tax in my home county, they jacked up the property taxes and nearly put my family out of our house at one point, they jacked up payroll taxes, they jacked up income taxes on both the state and federal level. I'm a "working stiff" and they don't care shit about me, and if you believe the Democrats care about working stiffs, you're either clueless or brainwashed.

  53. Re:Norwegian sell-out for celebrities and stars by rotide · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm an American. One who was more than pissed off with Bush. One who voted for Obama. One who is still proud of that choice.

    I've seen a stark change in the world perception of the USA. I've seen opinions and hopes change within my family, friends, neighborhood, state, etc. Even Republicans I know, while still a bit jaded over Dem's winning is hopeful for the future under a Dem.

    But what has _Obama_ the man done to win this prize?

    I'm just an average citizen and all I've seen so far is an attitude shift in the country and world towards the changing of our President to a non-republican. And I'm not even sure the Republican change is even as important as the simple leaving of office that Bush graced us all with.

    My point here is simple. Did Obama gaining leadership deserve him winning the Peace Prize, or was it awarded to the _office_? Did the real healing began _merely_ because Bush left?

    Say _anyone_ else won the Presidency, not even necessarily a Democrat, but say anyone who was against War in general and came across as a "peacetime" president or at least, not a war mongering one. Would they have won as well?

    I'd suggest that yes, yes they would have. At least if they were as personally likable and articulate as Obama is (regardless of who writes his speaches, he at least comes across as edumacatud).

    My opinion is that the absence of Bush won the Prize, Obama just happened to be the person who filled that slot.

  54. Re:Heh... by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with any discussion of Democrat and Republican platforms is that neither party even remotely espouses the supposed platforms they stand for.

    You have supposed liberals championing for government control, censorship, and the removal of rights. (Clinton, Biden, Reid)

    You have supposed fiscal conservatives handing out bushels of money left and right. (McCain and Bush)

    Both parties voted for war. Both parties voted for massive bailouts. Both parties keep putting money in their pocket. Both parties voted for domestic spy programs. Both parties keep creating new federal bureaucracy without doing anything to really make our lives better.

    At the end of the day, we need a certain dose of the Libertarians, who want less government and more personal freedom, except they're naive in thinking if we ignore the rest of the world, they'll ignore us.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  55. Re:And, well, why not? by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    What exactly is your definition of an illegal war?

    The UN Security Council said they would have voted against going into Iraq as a UN effort, but the vote never took place. Technically, the UN's cease-fire agreement said if Iraq did not fully comply, the cease-fire was null and void, and UN military action was authorized. The security council find Iraq in violation of the cease-fire some 75 times.

    The US went into Iraq with the direct support of over 30 nations. When the coalition displaced Saddam, the UN officially recognized the US control of the nation as a soverign leadership in the UN before Iraq had its own government in place. In effect, the UN recognized the war as being legal and valid.

    Congress voted for it, and the UN ended up approving it. How was that illegal?

    Afghanistan was already in civil war before we got there. We supported the side that was ousting a terrorist regime who initiated military conflict with the US on 9/11. We remain in Afghanistan at the request of the Afghani government. The UN recognized this as valid as well. Congress voted for it.

    Again, how are either of these illegal?

    Please look up the definition of illegal and get back to me.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  56. Al Gore = Einstein? by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Einstein didn't even have Power Point, but that's essentially what he did too."

    So you're arguing that Al Gore actually conceived the theory of global warming then? Did the science? Worked out the equations? Submitted the research to peer review? That Al Gore?

    I guess he really did invent the Internet then.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  57. Re:And, well, why not? by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    I never said might makes right.

    The term illegal implies the US broke law. The US followed their own law for declaring war, and following international law as well given that the UN approved both actions.

    I'm checking your links. You're first one suggests Osama Bin Laden isn't responsible for 9/11. Funny, because he admits to it and no one else has claimed responsibility. We have 9/11 conspirators who admitted to it in trial as well. You link claims there is no evidence linking Bin Laden to 9/11.

    The link also claims that no one in Afghanistan attacked the US, thusly the invasion was illegal. Afghanistan was controlled by the Taliban. Osama Bin Laden publicly admitted that he had formed a partnership with the Taliban. He performed multiple terrorist attacks against the United States while operating as a guest of the Taliban. Osama Bin Laden was indicted in US court, and the Taliban refused extradition.

    You insist there is no proof, but even the UAE and Saudi cut diplomatic ties with the Taliban, and called for the Taliban to hand Osama Bin Laden over.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

    Again, the Taliban and Northern Alliance were in an existing civil war, both claiming rightful ownership of Afghanistan. NATO didn't attack Afghanistan. NATO attacked the Taliban. I think if you ask the Afghani government, they'll tell you that NATO liberated them.

    Women are just beginning to have rights for the first time even in Afghanistan, thanks to deposing the Taliban.

    Your second link seems to suggest that it isn't morally acceptable to go into Iraq, because it is an act of aggression. But it is morally acceptable to preemptively attack and sabotage military bases as an act of aggression, because you're worried they will eventually commit war crimes.

    That is akin to pro-lifers killing doctors in the name of life.

    You can't argue for and against preemptive aggression in the same breath. Regardless, the link only suggests the action is immoral.

    It never says the courts for US action in Iraq to be illegal, because it wasn't illegal.

    You can't escape the facts that the UN Security council did acknowledge the war as being legal and valid.

    It is legal by every definition. That point isn't in contention. Arguing otherwise merely means you wish to ignore all facts.

    If you wish to say you don't like the war, or you don't find it just, then go ahead. But again, you will likely do so in the face of a number of facts.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  58. Re:Heh... by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Black female, here. I'd like to temporarily interrupt your rant to respond to this:

    I make under $50,000/year. I didn't go to an Ivy League college, I paid my own way from a Tier 2 college on partial merit-based (National Merit Scholar) assistance. If I had been female or black, I was told by most of the places I applied that (a) if I wasn't accepted, being female/black would have gotten me in and I was rejected so they could meet minority-quota, or (b) I was accepted but all their scholarship money was reserved for female or "minority" students and the basic NMS assistance was all I'd get out of them.

    I didn't get this Black fund or this Woman fund that pays for college. The financial aid office didn't tell me "good news, you don't have to pay because you're Black and Female". I have about $40,000 in student loans from a bank.

    I need you to imagine for a moment that you are a Black woman. You have to work with people. You have to apply for jobs. You sometimes need help from people. And all of these people are white men who have been told time and time again, they would have all the things they deserve and all the things they worked for, except that all of those things were given to people like you instead. This is in spite of the fact, they're making more money than you and they have the job you wish you had.

    Better yet, imagine you finally have a chance to get a promotion that will put you over that $50,000 mark. And the person who has to decide whether to give it to you or the next guy has just finished reading some slashdot post about how the other guy deserves it and you don't. I'm just saying.