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Texas Teen Arrested Under New Online Harassment Law

Posted by kdawson on from the play-nice-now dept.

SpaceGhost sends in a story from San Antonio, TX: "Police have arrested a 16-year-old girl on charges of harassment under a new Texas law that took effect September 1, 2009. H.B. 2003 says a person commits a third degree felony if the person posts one or more messages on a social networking site with the intent to harm, defraud, intimidate or threaten another person. Police say the harassment went on for a few months and involved a dispute over a boy. ... Some people expect legal challenges to the constitutionality of the new Internet law.' The law is evidently a response to the Lori Drew case.

77 of 494 comments (clear)

  1. Your Honor! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I respectfully submit that the defendant is a Meanie-Head in the first degree!"

    "My client wishes the court to know that the witness, in fact, 'started it'."

    1. Re:Your Honor! by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Court room typist: How do you spell "DooDoo Head"?

    2. Re:Your Honor! by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Was that a transcript from the case or a transcript from the latest session of Congress?

      Seriously though... any time speech is regulated, there's a problem. Yes, the Supreme Court has ruled that the right to Free Speech is not absolute, but the prosecution of a girl for calling another girl names over a dispute over a boy? A matter for parents and possibly high school guidance counselors, or on the rare outside case for a psychiatrist, but not for the courts.

    3. Re:Your Honor! by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Enough! By the power vested in me by the State of My Mom's Dining Table, I sentence you to both... Kiss each other for 5 seconds!"

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    4. Re:Your Honor! by macbeth66 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sure it is. That way, if it can't be resolved through the means you suggested, it goes to court. Not everything goes to court, sometimes people talk to each and resolve their differences. But, when you can't, you let the court decide. But, you have to give the courts some teeth.

      These are the same kinds of laws that give people recourse for harassment and stalking. Something that the courts could nothing about until just recently. At least, in the USA.

    5. Re:Your Honor! by Em+Emalb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I miss the days when disputes were settled on the playground after school. *sigh*

      Seemed a much simpler time, didn't it?

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    6. Re:Your Honor! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Depends on whether you were the stronger or the weaker of the disputing parties, I suspect...

    7. Re:Your Honor! by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A matter for parents and possibly high school guidance counselors, or on the rare outside case for a psychiatrist, but not for the courts.

      This is where you are wrong. An entire generation or more has been raised to believe in its own innate and unearned importance, and bolstered with a solid and unshakable faith in its responsibility-less intrinsic rights. They truly believe that they are entitled to do whatsoever they please, whenever they please to, and that they are educated and savvy enough to inject their opinions in any arena they see fit, and how dare anyone presume to tell them otherwise. Their rights are absolute at all times, without qualification of any kind.

      If you disagree with them, or are simply in their way, they're not going to engage in productive discussion or debate. That would imply that you are somehow their equal. Instead, they will call upon the full force of the great edifice of the Law, which exists solely to defend their inalienable right to _make_ the world bend to their will. As free, intelligent and independent citizens, they have every right to bring the full force of the State to bear in crushing you and your impudent challenges to their unique and inestimable way of life.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    8. Re:Your Honor! by hrimhari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I concur. And I don't see why it was tagged "flamebait". Maybe the trap fit the mod.

      --
      http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
    9. Re:Your Honor! by Plunky · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends on whether you were the stronger or the weaker of the disputing parties, I suspect...

      Respect can be given to a weaker person who, knowing they were weaker, went up against you for the principle. The ninny who goes and calls their dad to smack you down just proves that their dad is bigger than you and will never get any respect. Calling law enforcement is the same, its not about who is right and wrong but if you can carry your head high amongst your peers. It doesn't have to be about violence in the playground either, you can get your teams together and play baseball if you like but at the end of it you can respect each other no matter who wins.

    10. Re:Your Honor! by madpansy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's already recourse for harassment or stalking. It's called a restraining order. I see no reason why we need special laws to guard against "special" cases like online social networks. I recall reading about a person being charged with violating a restraining order for "poking" someone on Facebook, so it appears at least one court understands how old laws continue to apply as society changes.

    11. Re:Your Honor! by dfxm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The law mentions "with the intent to harm, defraud, intimidate or threaten another person." I didn't see the comment she left in TFA, so how do you know it was just "calling another girl names?" You don't know what the comments were, so don't them off as trivial.

      If this girl left threatening comments to someone with criminal intent, and the girl who read the comments honestly believed she would act on them, then does it matter how those comments were communicated? This is outside the scope of free speech.

    12. Re:Your Honor! by jhfry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure they could... they would issue a restraining order, which if violated could result in criminal charges.

      This law is unnecessary and open to abuse, the old system of filing a complaint, getting the courts to issue a restraining order, and daring your enemy to violate the order so that they can get busted is much more fun... and more fair too.

      Essentially the old system said "Stop it, I'm serious and I have the law on my side"... the new system will punish harassers without giving them a warning to stop first. There are many circumstances where a harasser might not realize that things have reached the point where the harassed is feeling harassed. Especially in the case of children, where the child may be OK, but the parents see some kid saying mean things about their "baby" and they want retribution... even when their "little angel" has already laughed it off.

      --
      Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    13. Re:Your Honor! by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because might make right was such a good system?

      Anything which prepares kids to deal with the real world is a good system.

    14. Re:Your Honor! by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Reminds me of a bit from one of my favorite movies "You sharpen the human appetite to the point where it can split atoms with its desire; you build egos the size of cathedrals; fiber-optically connect the world to every eager impulse; grease even the dullest dreams with these dollar-green, gold-plated fantasies, until every human becomes an aspiring emperor, becomes his own God... and where can you go from there?"

      You mix the combination of giant egos with Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and you end up with some seriously large douches. But the problem with laws like this is they ALWAYS get abused. Look at the 6 year old who was suspended and looking at being sent to a school for juvenile offenders for bring his cub scout multi-tool to school to eat lunch with. Laws like this will be badly abused, and the last thing we need is one of the last bastions of truly free speech turning into a place where you can't speak your mind for fear of getting arrested or sued. I for one would rather have free speech than some bureaucrat deciding whether or not something I said on a forum could take away my freedom, wouldn't you?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    15. Re:Your Honor! by NtroP · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depends on whether you were the stronger or the weaker of the disputing parties, I suspect...

      Actually, I disagree. I realize in this oh-so-civilized and politically-correct world I'm a bit of a neanderthal, but as the weaker one in may confrontations growing up, there was a certain finality and satisfaction in just facing your tormentor or opponent and having it out. Many times I was left with the split lip or black eye, but was able to walk away knowing that I'd at least defended my honor. As stupid as it sounds, things were never left to fester long enough to get to Columbine-proportions let alone anything that would be considered a severe beating.

      I didn't fight often, but that was because I learned very quickly that my actions had consequences. I learned that it can sometimes hurt as much to punch someone as to get punched. I also learned that to avoid a physical confrontation, I needed to work on my diplomacy and many times my over-all prick-titude.

      Kids these days barely get the chance to use harsh-language against each other before an adult steps in. They see people on TV and in the movies getting in horrific fights that would quickly render a real person unconscious or dead, getting right back up again, ready for more. They've never experienced the fear and pain of defeat, let alone the fear and pain of victory. Without an early outlet for small disagreements some people bottle it up until they explode. Often, they just commit suicide, but sometimes they take the small hurts way too far, grab a gun and kill someone. We can sit on the outside, wring our hands and say "Why would someone kill someone else over a little thing like that?" Well, it's not a little thing when you spend your whole life feeling powerless.

      When I was a kid you'd never hear about someone shooting up their school. Why? For one thing, half the pickup trucks in the high school parking lot had a rifle in the back window. The kids actually hunted with them and had first-hand knowledge of the damage they did to flesh and what death and blood smells like. They'd never reach for a gun in a fight. They'd lose hand-to-hand first. Second, there was a spot, right off school grounds, that was the de facto fighting spot. You knew, when you were called out where to be and at what time.

      If you chose not to show up, you lost and were dishonored. If you showed up, defeated your opponent, and then proceeded to beat him while he was down, you were considered a loser, which was a bigger dishonor that not showing up. If you lost, at least it was over and you were respected for standing up for yourself. The strange part about that was, after the first time a big bully beat a smaller kid there, it rarely happened again. The big bully didn't get near the accolades they'd envisioned after beating up on a weaker kid in full public view of their classmates. In fact, it was usually the weaker kid who came out better in the eyes of their peers. Of course, if you didn't show up you weren't lauded for your passivity, you were scorned for not being willing to stand up for yourself. No one had any respect for someone who wouldn't stand up for themselves (or their girlfriends more often than not).

      I love when I hear naive people say "violence doesn't solve anything". Bullshit. Violence almost always solves the problem, one way or the other. It just may not be the best way to solve the problem. But when you've never known real violence, never dealt real violence, it all sort of becomes unreal. When you grow up your whole life being told that pacifism is so noble and everything can be resolved with talking and reason you lose touch with the grim, gritty reality that comes with getting that bloody nose. So when you find yourself in a situation when the other party won't just accept your reason and when you can't find any adults/officials to come to your rescue and make the other party see reason, your sense of frustration grows to the point where the violence you've never experienced takes on a seductive kind of

      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
    16. Re:Your Honor! by Wildclaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what about all those who don't want to fight, not because they are weak, but because they don't like fighting. Of course, you don't have an answer to that. Because your attitude stinks of the fighter mentality. Your choice of words like "proving yourself" is very revealing.

      It is people like you who encourage young people to fight that is the problem. Perpetuating and encouraging violence in society is not a good solution.

      And yes, I have stood up for myself, but I will never be proud of it, and I will not respect those who I stood up to. Violence is not something to be respected for. At best it is a last resort when other things didn't work. But when kids are forced to resort to violence because of the inaction of adults, then it is a failure of the adults.

    17. Re:Your Honor! by j_kenpo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You read that article and think "Name calling? The police state is violating that persons Freedom of Speech, thats a problem". I read that, see that its from Somerset, Tx, and I think "thats probably gang related or some cracked out trailer trash and they threatened to rape and kill that girl. Thats a problem".

      In both cases, none of us knows the specifics of the case, and are both talking out our asses. And even RTFA, given the PD cheifs in the San Antonio areas notoriety for spewing lines of BS, we won't in the immediate future.

    18. Re:Your Honor! by shambalagoon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, I think we could go a long way towards encouraging decent behavior if people were granted the right to slap people who insult or offend them. Think about it. Right now you can badger, harrass, defame, verbally abuse, and insult people with impunity. I realize there's libel laws but that's a huge and long endeavor, very much separated from the immediate situation. It's perfectly legal to be a complete douche and make someone's life a miserable hell and feel invulnerable because the victim can't touch you.

      So take away that immunity. If you insult and mouth off to someone, they can slap you, as hard as they want, as many times as they want, and it's legal. People would think twice before opening their mouth and letting loose with a stream of vitriol and verbal abuse if there was the possibility of an immediate response.

      It's behaviorism at its simplest. It's how the entire natural world works. Every social animal tests their boundaries, and if they go too far, they get bit. That's how boundaries get set. Our laws have created a consequence-free outlet for verbal abuse that is generating some truly out-of-control people.

    19. Re:Your Honor! by Mendoksou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...they are educated and savvy enough to inject their opinions in any arena they see fit, and how dare anyone presume to tell them otherwise.

      You mean like passing judgment on an entire generation? Don't for a second pretend that ego is a phenomena new to this generation. The simple fact is that every older generation in history has felt that the next generation was presumptuous and rude, and all too full of themselves. But what does that have to do with the law?

      Young people will be immature, and, since it is a forum on which they are a disproportional demographic, will be the majority of the forum trolls and flame-baiters and haters out there, and thus are most likely to get caught under this law (yes, I know the law doesn't cover trolling, but the trolls mentality is much closer producing threats than is the average mature person's). This does not change the fact that classifying threats online as illegal breaks with free speech precedent. Free speech does not include threats ONLY if it is backed by the threat of imminent violence, or if it is defamation (ok, most trolls fit here, but that's a civil matter, not a felony), or if it incites to riot. Threatening online matches none of these; no threat is imminent, as I'd have to get up, drive to your house, and THEN do whatever I said (in which case the prosecutable act is the physical one, the speech is peripheral and can only be evidence of forethought and intent, not a crime itself). So no, we are not claiming "responsibility-less intrinsic rights;" we are merely pointing out that the same rights that we enjoy elsewhere also should apply online.

      --
      DISCLAIMER: I am very rarely serious. If the above comment seems asinine makes no sense, it is most likely a bad joke.
    20. Re:Your Honor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is so unbelievably redneck, I'm at a loss for words. That attitude is something out of the 50's or earlier.
      Taught your kids, huh? Like, that violence solves things. You really think they heard that, warn once warn twice? No what they heard was Dad will back us up if we kick the crap out of someone. Whether that someone had it coming due to their over-all stupidity or not.
      And, btw, I was never in a fight in high school. Never had a cause and it wasn't because I was intimidating physically. I just had a knack for getting along with people; i.e. I tried to respect everyone.

    21. Re:Your Honor! by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 4, Interesting

      An entire generation or more has been raised to believe in its own innate and unearned importance...

      That is quite a sweeping generalization. I am not sure which generation you are referring to, but if it is my own (I am 23) I would be inclined to disagree with you via a caveat. I will agree that, in general, there are quite a few folks who fit the description that you just posted. Nonetheless, I would caveat that there are some of us, in every generation (not just my own) that know without a doubt that we do not have unlimited entitlement and rights. There are even some of us that know that the Law is not an institution to be used for the abuse of personal gain. In fact, some of us, in every generation, outright abhor the strange exponential increase in the complexity of the Law in general.

      So, in principle, I agree that there are quite a few folk out there that think the way you mentioned, using the term, 'an entire generation' really does disrespect those of us that try to remain rational, calm, pragmatic, and realistic. Please, don't lump entire groups of people together as if we are all just walking stereotypes to be typified into a particular Aristotelian category. There are always shades of gray.

      --
      Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
    22. Re:Your Honor! by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To this day the most confident, rational, and competent people I know are the kids I grew up with which got their asses kicked across a parking lot at least once during middle school or high school. Every single one of them got in some good blows themselves and could sit there afterword bleeding out the nose or mouth smiling that they at least had a chance to 'shut that guy up' who wouldn't lay off of of them. It's completely anecdotal, but I have to say that I agree with what you posted in every respect. Tasting your own blood is a memorable and grounding experience in life that more people need to experience, in my opinion.

      --
      Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
    23. Re:Your Honor! by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Interesting
      And what about all those who don't want to fight, not because they are weak, but because they don't like fighting.

      The existence of people like that endangers the whole system whereby respect and status are established by means of violence. Consider: an alpha male in the schoolyard has established his position against all rivals by means of fights. He now becomes aware of a subculture that does not respect him for this - they may fear him, but they don't admire him. These people are called 'nerds' and they admire and respect intellectual accomplishment. Or a large collection of Warhammer 40K figures. Either way, they neither admire nor respect the willingness or ability to engage in physical fights. Indeed, they openly disdain it.

      This completely undermines his position! This alpha male demands the respect due to him for being so masculine and violent! And so he expresses himself in the only way he knows how: he beats up nerds until he has established to the satisfaction of his peers that he will not tolerate disrespect from inferiors of zero status, from people who have no interest in violence at all.

      Looking back on it from a distance of fifteen years or so it's a fascinating sociological study. Thank fuck I'm no longer living in it.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    24. Re:Your Honor! by IRoll11!s · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is all very nice, but if you haven't noticed it's impossible to punch someone over the internet, which is what the article is about.

    25. Re:Your Honor! by cptdondo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      An entire generation or more has been raised to believe in its own innate and unearned importance, and bolstered with a solid and unshakable faith in its responsibility-less intrinsic rights. They truly believe that they are entitled to do whatsoever they please, whenever they please to, and that they are educated and savvy enough to inject their opinions in any arena they see fit, and how dare anyone presume to tell them otherwise. Their rights are absolute at all times, without qualification of any kind.

      You know, I'm getting a bit tired of this. It's the same crap that's been heaped on the younger generation for ages. I remember it when I was a kid.

      Kids today by and large are more responsible, if anything, than the kids in my generation were. They are under more pressure, in a more dangerous environment, than we were and they're dealing with it pretty well.

      There seems to be this bizarre "whack a mole" approach to dealing with kids... Let them do what they want, but once in a while take a kid out back and shoot him/her for being a kid as an example.

      No wonder the kids today are confused.

      They've been taught really good social skills, conflict resolution, sharing in school, and then they get hammered when they do something wrong.

      Some of the grownups need to attend those social skills classes instead of their kids.

    26. Re:Your Honor! by freeweed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you insult and mouth off to someone, they can slap you, as hard as they want, as many times as they want, and it's legal.

      Great!

      I find your comment rather offensive and an insult to my way of thinking. Allow me to commence slapping you're bruised and bleeding, and you go down in an unconscious heap.

      What?

      Note: the secret here, is that insult and offense is 100% in the eyes and ears of the receiver. If you can't see where the problem lies here...

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    27. Re:Your Honor! by Labcoat+Samurai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If we accept physical violence as a respectable method for resolving disputes, then women will be at a significant disadvantage (past a certain age). Or would you give different advice to a girl? What about to a boy who doesn't have the courage to fight? Does he deserve the harassment more than someone who does? Regardless, since there's no positive correlation as far as I know between being right and being tough, we potentially reinforce or encourage the behavior of jerks.

      Besides, I should be able to solve the problem without risking physical harm to myself. Adult disputes should not be solved through physical violence, so why should we teach our children otherwise?

      One qualification: I believe in defending yourself. If you are attacked as an adult or as a child, fight back with everything you have. Like the old adage about starting vs ending fights.

    28. Re:Your Honor! by AndersOSU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your romanticization of violence sort of falls apart when you stop looking at flukes like Columbine where middle class disaffected teenagers have never experienced violence and start looking at the every day violence in the inner city. Kids don't get shot or stabbed downtown because they've been bottling it up too long.

    29. Re:Your Honor! by tsm_sf · · Score: 2, Funny

      So if I kill you online then I should be tried for first degree murder then?

      I can't fully comprehend the confusion of mind that would lead to this sentence.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
  2. start them early by CaptainNerdCave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we'd better get these young people used to the idea that everyone is a criminal, no sense in letting them think they ever were or ever could be innocent. after all, there's no way to rule law-abiding citizens.

  3. Idiocracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously Texas lawmakers are unfamiliar with the legal principle "Sticks and stones make break my bones, but words will never hurt me!" If I post online that Cmdr Taco is a goat fucker, have I really "harmed" him or his reputation in any way? It's not slander unless a reasonable person would believe it to be true, and no rational person believes Taco actually dates outside his own species (unlike Captain Kirk).

    1. Re:Idiocracy by Talderas · · Score: 4, Funny

      If I post online that Cmdr Taco is a goat fucker, have I really "harmed" him or his reputation in any way? It's not slander unless a reasonable person would believe it to be true, and no rational person believes Taco actually dates outside his own species (unlike Captain Kirk).

      Yet another reason that Captain Picard is the superior Captain compared to Captain Kirk, Goat Fucker.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    2. Re:Idiocracy by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 2

      Yet another reason that Captain Picard is the superior Captain compared to Captain Kirk, Goat Fucker.

      Meh! Kirk has a goat in every port. Who does Picard have to come home to?

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    3. Re:Idiocracy by Thansal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Meh! Kirk has a goat in every port. Who does Picard have to come home to?

      An acting career?

      --
      Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
  4. SHITCOCK! by e2d2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There's a big difference between saying "This person, IMHO, is an asshole" and "I'm gonna punch your face until you bleed from the asshole" (just an example, I have never ever said such horrendous things. I'm appalled that you would take me for that kind of person you fucking piece of shit! I'LL KILL YOU!)

    But seriously, I tell my kid and other kids in my family - don't say anything you wouldn't say in person. And if you threaten someone in person, well that's assault.

    People need to learn that being a SHITCOCK Internet Fuckwad is unacceptable. People also need to grow thicker skin, but when it truly hurts someone it's time to stop.

    1. Re:SHITCOCK! by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed, actual threats of physical violence SHOULD be unlawful,,, but if you are threatening to kill someone, it doesn't really matter whether or not you are doing it online, does it? Making a law that ONLY applies to online behavior is assinine -- could she have printed the same statements out on paper and gotten away with it? Why is publishing them online any different?

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:SHITCOCK! by Ephemeriis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Agreed, actual threats of physical violence SHOULD be unlawful,,, but if you are threatening to kill someone, it doesn't really matter whether or not you are doing it online, does it? Making a law that ONLY applies to online behavior is assinine -- could she have printed the same statements out on paper and gotten away with it? Why is publishing them online any different?

      That's my big problem with these laws.

      We already have harassment/stalking/whatever laws on the books. If I punch you in the face, it's assault. It doesn't matter if I do it at school, or at the local GameStop, or at a grocery store. We don't need special laws for each building in the nation - we just say "this is assault."

      Likewise, if I track your every movement for a week, snap pictures of you, film video of you, peek in your windows - it's stalking. Doesn't much matter if I'm doing it with a 35mm or a digital camera. Doesn't much matter if you're living in a trailer park or a fancy apartment. It's stalking.

      If I won't leave you alone, call you constantly, send you annoying letters, leave notes on your car - it's harassment. Doesn't much matter if I type those notes on a typewriter, or if they're handwritten, or if I use recycle paper. Doesn't matter if I'm calling you from my cell phone or a pay phone. It's still harassment.

      If I print lies about you in the local paper or run some ads or put up some signs it is libel. Again, it doesn't much matter if the sign is an 8.5x11 piece of paper I printed, or some nice cardboard thing the local printshop put together. It doesn't much matter if it's a free local paper, or a widely circulated periodical. It's still libel.

      Why do we need special laws for the Internet? If I call you using Skype or some sort of VOIP is it no longer harassment? Does it magically become some other kind of criminal mischief because my voice is being transmitted over the Internet?

      If I post lies about you on a message board is it no longer libel? Does the act of encoding those characters and transmitting them over a wire somehow change the nature of the offense? Are those no longer, technically, printed lies?

      Why do we need special laws for forums and social networking sites? Why can't our existing laws be applied?

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  5. Two to Ten Years and Up To Ten Grand by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Apparently Texas' penal code reads for felonies of the third degree:

    12.34. THIRD DEGREE FELONY PUNISHMENT. (a) An individual adjudged guilty of a felony of the third degree shall be punished by imprisonment in the institutional division for any term of not more than 10 years or less than 2 years.

    (b) In addition to imprisonment, an individual adjudged guilty of a felony of the third degree may be punished by a fine not to exceed $10,000.

    Of course, she's a minor being 16 so the punishment will most likely be up to the judge and expunged at age 18 but for you adults who like to poke and prod people online ... better think twice in states where these kind of laws are enforced lest you target the wrong person.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Two to Ten Years and Up To Ten Grand by Cocoronixx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is totally ridiculous... That news article reads as if it was posted on The Onion.

      --
      "Obscenity is the crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker." - cloak42
    2. Re:Two to Ten Years and Up To Ten Grand by rwv · · Score: 2, Informative

      But they didn't have proper laws to charge Drew with behavior that arguably resulted in the death of a teenager. She was guilty of that bad behavior, but the got acquitted because the judge didn't want to establish "breaking a website's terms of service" as precedence for violating the law. For whatever reason, there were not any "harassment" charges to levy against Drew.

  6. Re:About time by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Funny

    Such stuff needs to be a felony.

    In which case, the state of Texas is going to be busy with all of the anonymous vs. anonymous cases.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  7. BEHOLD! by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can of worms, I dub thee COLOSUS!

  8. Re:Hard cases... by Moryath · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And the necessary corrolary: Easy cases also make bad law.

    "Easy" cases make bad law because they allow for bad decisions - "the law says one thing, but Mr. Greasy-Haired Used Car Salesman is so obviously running a dishonest business..."

    "Hard" cases make bad law because they get decided on a very narrow point of law and set of facts, but then a thousand greasy shysters (er... "lawyers") cite them as precedent for cases that have almost no similarity at all.

    In fact, the current way our system is cooked up, the overall conclusion to make is probably that adherence to precedent in general makes for shitty law.

  9. Hmmm.. by windex82 · · Score: 2

    I'm not so sure laws needed to be made for something that amounts to name calling. If the name calling extends to harassment we already have laws in place.

    The only fix to this problem is proper parrenting and teaching kids how to respect and really communicate with one another. Even removing anonymity doesn't fix this problem (and I am completely against any attempt to remove it). I am aware that Anecdotes aren't evidence but I've been "bullied" online (if you want to call it that) by girls who went to the same school as I, they were well aware I knew who they were and they knew who I was. How did I respond? I walked up to them the next day and kindly asked them to continue calling me names now that we are face to face. They just slithered away muttering half apologies and never messaged me again.

  10. List of Texas' Third Degree Felonies by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry to reply to myself but I found a list of felonies in the third degree for the state of Texas if you want to compare this new law to older laws resulting in the same degree of punishment. Apparently a third degree felony punishment (as noted in my parent post) can be meted out for anything ranging from arson to assault to conducting a game of bingo without a license.

    --
    My work here is dung.
  11. Good Idea by Bagellord · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I honestly think this is a good law. Case in point: a kid in my little brother's class created a myspace page using my brother's name and picture and put some truly disturbing stuff on there. We only found out about it because one of his classmates texted him asking about it. The headmaster of our school almost expelled him over it. This is a very serious thing. It can cause emotional damage to the victim, and can ruin their reputation. The kid who did it sent all kinds of rude and nasty messages to people who saw my brother's page and sent friend requests. This law is a good idea.

  12. Re:About time by qortra · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Why does this need to be a felony? Support your claim with evidence. At the risk of sounding heartless, teen suicide is not sufficient evidence on its own; there is plenty of that when neither the internet nor harassment is involved.

    More than that, can you show that this particular instance should be a felony?

    Details of the incident weren't made available, but police say the harassment went on for a few months and involved a dispute over a boy.

    That seems pretty vague to me. Should we throw every middle school student into the hoosegow? Typically, middle school is 3 years of constant harassment, and it definitely involves boys.

    I'd bet money that this particular instance is a non-issue. The parents of the "victim" probably knew the sheriff.

  13. What's the big deal by onyxruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Harassment online should be no different than harassment offline. If I send an email threating to break someone's leg how is that any different than a message over the phone or in person? Why do people make a big deal that otherwise illegal behavior is somehow legal online? Intimidation, coercion and other forms of threatening behavior are all readily accepted as illegal offline, this case has absolutely no defense in the first amendment (and I'm usually the one defending it).

    1. Re:What's the big deal by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This wasn't 'a threat to harm', the message itself -is- the harm.

      People get up in arms about it because it's -really- hard to make text do actual harm.

      We don't have have -any- actual information about the case, so argument for either side are completely pointless right now.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:What's the big deal by ffreeloader · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Harassment online should be no different than harassment offline. If I send an email threating to break someone's leg how is that any different than a message over the phone or in person? Why do people make a big deal that otherwise illegal behavior is somehow legal online? Intimidation, coercion and other forms of threatening behavior are all readily accepted as illegal offline, this case has absolutely no defense in the first amendment (and I'm usually the one defending it).

      Why do people get upset about harassment over the internet? Because it's way out of line. It's rampant and the police/prosecutors refuse to do anything about it. It's also worse online because of the difficulty in finding out who is responsible for it.

      It's much riskier to walk up to a person and begin insulting them than it is to make online slurs as in person the possibility of getting your ass kicked for being a jackass is much, much greater. The perceived anonymity of the internet creates an atmosphere in which assholes are much more likely to think there will be no consequences for their behavior and so cross behavioral lines they wouldn't cross in person.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
  14. Maybe this is as it should be by Jiro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you go to the article, the article explains:

    <i>It seems the goal of the new law was to discourage using the name or persona of another person to create a Web page.</i>

    If she really did this, she should be punished. Now, there's a good point that a felony charge may be too strict and existing laws about libel and false light should cover it (though there could be loopholes that keep it from doing so), but the general idea that we shouldn't tolerate this behavior is pretty sensible. Contrary to popular belief, trolling isn't actually good, and the fact that you can get away with it doesn't mean you should get away with it. Harassment is wrong, and I have no problem with the law punishing it.

    (And for the Slashdotter who said "she wouldn't be charged with a felony if this was done in person", exactly how do you put up a web page under someone else's name in person?)

  15. Re:About time by maudface · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having been a victim of such harassment in the past myself I agree wholeheartedly, I reported it to the police however they fairly resoundingly didn't appear to give a toss.

    Given how common it is for one's name to be googled by others these days online harassment can be every bit as damaging as real life harassment, it caused me quite serious upset for some months. This wasn't merely some childish dispute but an ex looking for revenge over every medium possible, creating profiles on facebook, bebo, myspace and various other websites with the specific intent of causing me as much damage as possible.

    While I'm in no means in favour of putting the internet under any form of state control this sort of activity warrants police attention and needs to be against the law. It strikes me as insane that so much focus is put on policing the internet to stop file sharers as opposed to protecting the individual.

  16. LOL by jafiwam · · Score: 2, Interesting

    third degree felony if the person posts one or more messages on a social networking site with the intent to harm, defraud, intimidate or threaten another person

    LOL, by that standard, the entire fucking state of Texas should be arrested for the shit I see them say every day about the President. Don't mess with Texas!*

    *And by "mess" we mean to consider a democratically and validly elected official office legitimate, and especially if you know, he ain't your kind of bigot.

    1. Re:LOL by bertoelcon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Don't mess with Texas!*

      *And by "mess" we mean to consider a democratically and validly elected official office legitimate, and especially if you know, he ain't your kind of bigot.

      Actually the "Don't mess with Texas!" line is about littering.

      --
      Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
    2. Re:LOL by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, I know. Which makes it even more amusing when it's used by Texans in a different way.

      See, humor and sarcasm have many layers....

      Most of which you seem unable to penetrate.

  17. The law's not that bad, actually by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's the text. Basically all it targets are people who harass others online assuming another person's identity. One girl creating a profile for another, where she claims to be a homosexual drug user who steals to support her habit would fall under this. Generic harassment doesn't. About the only thing that is far-reaching, and it's likely based on ignorance, is the "domain address" language which could be twisted by a prosecutor.

    Perhaps the law goes too far on the punishment side, but it doesn't prohibit any behavior which is protected by the first amendment. Only a moron would say "there are first amendment issues" since this law is little more than a double whammy on libel and slander.

    1. Re:The law's not that bad, actually by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So... slander and libel are somehow twice as bad online as they are otherwise? And we need a special law for this? Why?

      --
      My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
  18. Let's have some fun with the law! by Interoperable · · Score: 2, Interesting

    /. should try to get a volunteer prosecuted for violating a Term of Service in a hilarious manner. Try to get some free legal counsel for both sides from civil liberties group or from a law firm looking for publicity and then run the sham law suit as far as possible in the court system.

    I think it's critical to set precedent by addressing the issue directly rather than via an emotionally confused case. By the same token, I think it would be fun to run a few sham software licence related law suits through the courts. Come on! It'll be fun!

    --
    So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
  19. Re:Idiocracy-Goat Love by gpronger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I happen to know that the Commander's relationship with farm animals is a completely enlightened and fulfilling one for all parties involved. It's narrowed minded individuals like yourself which sullies these otherwise warm and positive relationships. Kirk on the other-hand was clearly a sexist (as was the writers which always wrote into the universe aliens which had all the necessary parts to get him hot and bothered).

    However, unlike your comment and mine, its easy to differentiate "reality". What has happened on in these cases that they are attempting to address is that the attack on the individual is such that a peer does believe the tripe. At the age we're talking about, both males and females, many are particularly vulnerable. Their friends and what their peers think of them is massively important.

    whether we can legislate politeness is another matter. I don't believe that teens are any more villainous than before, its more that the internet allows a wider audience to attack while the anonymity makes it more difficult to defend oneself (though I would at the same time believe that net anonymity is massively important, though I'll post this, non-anonymously).

  20. Approached from the wrong angle by DrivingBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We should really look at the emotional/psychological reasons that these kids are attacking each other and come up with strategies for treating those issues rather than arresting children for mistakes they make online.

    --
    How can that be?
    1. Re:Approached from the wrong angle by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That would require emotional stamina from the kids, involved parenting from the parents, toleration of lawsuit-generating situations by school officials... yeah right. I'm all for beating this particular drum until the cows come home, but I'm also not particularly confident that anything will actually happen.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
  21. Re:About time by DrLang21 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I don't understand is why is this not covered under previous harassment laws?

    --
    I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  22. Re:About time by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Because if it doesn't deprive one of the right to vote and the right to bear arms, then this additional law to criminalize everyone is useless.

  23. Re:About time by ChefInnocent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do you believe this girl deserves a minimum stint of 2 years in jail with a maximum of 10 plus a fine up to $10,000? We don't know the details, but regardless, the State of Texas will destroy her life for something she did when she was 16. Our country doesn't rehabilitate people, she won't end up with simple counseling, she will end up in prison for what amounts to stupid shit. The brain is not fully developed by 16, hormones are definitely unstable at 16, and yet she has been charged with a felony for saying something stupid.

    By the time her "victim" is in her mid-20's she will likely think nothing of it, but the "assailant" could still be in prison. And because of our wonderful penal system, she will likely be black marked for life and moving in and out of the criminal system. Why this couldn't be stopped at a much lower level, I don't know, but by using this method instead of others our "victim" and "assailant" will very much reverse roles.

    Hopefully, she can get a good judge who will she the long term effects of charging her as a felon and reverse course, but I don't have that sort of faith in humanity.

  24. Re:About time by cbreaker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The punishment doesn't even matter. If she has a felony conviction she's fucked.

    Almost every company out there now does background checks. While most of them claim "This won't necessarily disqualify you from this position" it most certainly will.

    It's a scarlet letter that keeps people that made some mistakes in their lives down. I have a few friends that are really decent people that made some stupid mistakes when they were 19/20/21 and such, and now 10 years later they still can't get work at a lot of places. Basically, they did what a lot of kids did, but they got caught..

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  25. Re:About time by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I agree with you that this is no laughing matter. It's libel, and defamation of character. And, I DO agree that this girl should be punished if this went on ruthlessly for months.

    But a felony conviction for a kid? She'll live with that on her criminal record for the rest of her life and she'll have a hard time getting good work..

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
  26. Re:About time by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Informative

    So is Missouri. The Texas case isn't the first by any means; the Lori Drew case was in Missouri, and they passed such a law posthaste. I submitted a story about the first arrest for online stalking under the new Missouri Lori Drew law several months ago, I guess there were different people looking at the firehose then.

    Texas ain't the first.

    Missouri legislators passed a cyberbullying law after the 2006 suicide of 13-year-old Megan Meier of St. Charles County. Megan killed herself after an Internet hoax that drew international attention.

    Binder said that law would not apply in this case because both the suspect and the victim are juveniles. He did not know the suspect's specific age. The new law prohibits adults from cyber harassment of children.

    Under the harassment law that took effect in August 2008, a cyberbullying offense can be charged as a felony if a victim is 17 or younger and the suspect 21 or older.

    The first person charged under the new law was 40-year-old Elizabeth Thrasher, also of St. Charles County. She was accused in August of posting photos and personal information about a 17-year-old girl on the "Casual Encounters" Section of Craigslist after an Internet argument. The posting included the teen's picture, e-mail address and cell phone number and suggested the girl was seeking a sexual encounter.

    An "Anti-Bullying Week" is planned for Troy's ninth graders later this month. Huddleston said the week was planned before the allegations in the case surfaced.

    --
    Free Martian Whores!
  27. socialnetdef by muckracer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So what is the legal definition of a social networking site anyway. Is Slashdot a SNS?

  28. Re:a girl calling another girl names? by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The south of the U.S. has a higher proportion of ignorant people than other areas.

    Yet people keep moving there because they can actually afford to live in the South without being taxed and regulated to death. As someone who was born, raised and still lives in the Northeast, let me assure you that it's no paradise.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  29. Try this by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Pick a social networking site, and make a public announcement on your "wall" (or whatever they call it) as follows:

    "Anyone who reads this need not necessarily feel neither unoffended nor unharassed notwithstanding their lack of failure to misconstrue its import."

    It's plain English, plainly stated, and clear enough to about 1% of the population. Obviously, it would intimidate the 99% of Americans who cannot parse or comprehend it, and many of them would feel both offended and harassed as well as insulted. They might feel that it must have been posted with the intention of offending or intimidating them.
    So would this sort of thing be against the law in Texas?

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  30. Harmful? Are they kidding??? by MarkvW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Will this law ever make it past the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals?

    It looks really overbroad. I can say something with the intent to harm you that is totally legal and absolutely protected by the First Amendment. I can say harmful things with the intent to harm your business interests (by advancing mine at your expense); I can say harmful things with the intent to harm your political interest (to get your sorry ass out of office); and I can say harmful things with the intent to harm your religious interest (because your religious influence is heretical).

    It also appears (from the lame summary and article) that truth is no defense. So, that if I harm you with the truth--I can go to prison.

    And that's only some ideas from the point of view of the POSTER.

    The social networking sites themselves are getting screwed over, here. What is the COMPELLING governmental reason for jacking up the criminal speech regulation on social networking sites and not on blogs and newspapers????? There is no compelling reason for such a limitation on free speech and my bet is that some lawyers are going to have an easy, fun, and lucrative time taking this law DOWNTOWN.

    Anyway, thanks very much to the Texas legislature for providing another money-stream to the lawyers. They'll be the only ones having fun with this dog of a law!

  31. Vigorous enforcement doesn't imply harsh penalty by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Having been a victim of such harassment in the past myself I agree wholeheartedly [should be felony] I reported it to the police however they fairly resoundingly didn't appear to give a toss.

    Do you believe this girl deserves a minimum stint of 2 years in jail with a maximum of 10 plus a fine up to $10,000?

    It might be possible for the police force to actively and vigorously enforce a particular law and still have punishments that are reasonable taking the nature and consequences of the actual crime (or misdemeanor, or miscellaneous bad deed) into consideration.

    Hypothetically, at least ;-)

    Would that perhaps be a good thing?

    (I think) I believe people should be protected from harassment if it really damages them. It should be enforced, but the punishment should fit the crime.

    It's maybe somewhat analogous to stupid enforcement of child porn laws. Anything without mutual informed consent is bad; whatever people do in their own homes that stays there and doesn't harm anyone is not something I should have any say about, and I defer having an opinion about the remaining 0.1% of the cases. That would be a decent set of principles to enforce. But punishing two mid-teen adolescents for having sex with each other (with mutual consent) and taking pictures of it (with consent) is just stupid.

    Protect people, enforce good rules, but don't banish people from society just because they call others a poopface.

    Restraining orders, house arrest, surveillance... they might be a good start?

  32. Everyone, can we just please... by jellybear · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... think about the children? Thank you.

    No, I didn't say think about civil liberties - stop that. Think about the children. Keep thinking about them. No, don't think about checks and balances. Listen to me, just think about the children. There. Good man.

  33. Re:It is the path of least resistence by Moryath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

    All of a sudden it begins to sound reasonable... basic law should be written in normal language.

    Lawyers have invented legalese to make themselves indispensible, because no normally-functioning human can understand half the laws in the land. "Common law" and "precedent" dictate that nobody can even know what constitutes an infringement at a given time. In fact, not even the government can tell you how many possible felonies there are any more thanks to laws that are based on treaties, based on "you can't do this if it would violate the law of some shithole country whose government gets overthrown every 6 months but we have a treaty with them and a whole bunch of other countries" or based on "a regulation yet to be created by a government bureaucracy or shithead appointee to be named later."

    It may be time for a reset. Toss everything out, rewrite the laws to be clearly understandable, re-institute basic civics courses in public school, and go from there. I'd rather not have it get to the point where I have to consult a fucking lawyer before tying my shoes or using a public restroom, but it might one day come to that the way we're currently headed.

  34. Translation: by nimbius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "these dag-blasted kiddies think they know it all! and they think theyre soooo special! Sometimes they have the gall to do weird things i dont approve of and they dont want to listen to my complaining! these confounded kids call the sheriff when theres a disagreement instead of just fighting like i did back when i was a kid! I live in a peppridge farm commercial where nobody needs the police and you only call the sheriff when mountain justice wont work! "

    mod parent down...just becuse you use big words doesnt mean you suddenly become insightful.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  35. Re:HAHAHAHAHA by Korin43 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then that seems to be a problem with the current law in all cases, not a need for a new law for a specific case.