Scientists Write Memories Directly Into Fly Brains

TheClockworkSoul writes "Researchers at the University of Oxford have devised a way to write memories onto the brains of flies, revealing which brain cells are involved in making bad memories. The researchers said that in flies, just 12 brain cells were responsible for what is known as 'associative learning.' They modified these neurons by adding receptors for ATP, so that the cells activate in the presence of the chemical, but since ATP isn't usually found floating around a fly's brain, the flies generally behave just like any other fly. Most interestingly, however, is that the scientists then injected ATP into the flies' brains, in a form that was locked inside a light-sensitive chemical cage. When they shined a laser on the fly brains, the ATP was released, and the 'associative learning' cells were activated. The laser flash was paired with an odor, effectively giving the fly a memory of a bad experience with the odor that it never actually had, such that it then avoided the odor in later experiments. The researchers describe their findings in the journal Cell."

Comments

Bad odor

[Tibia1]

The scientists later discovered that even fly's without this injected memory avoided the odor. One man was quoted saying "It smelled pretty bad."

Re:Bad odor

[dov_0]

If only they could program them to avoid the smell of BBQ meat...

Re:Bad odor

[Anonymous Coward]

The scientists later discovered that even fly's without this injected memory avoided the odor. One man was quoted saying "It smelled pretty bad."

Still later, scientists discovered that flies would avoid odors they associated with having lasers shined through their heads, regardless of cellular modifications.

Re:Bad odor

[Kratisto]

Much later, scientists discovered that the flies were detecting the odor of burning brain tissue, and not the odor they intended to implant as memory.

Wait a second...

[greyhueofdoubt]

Wouldn't having a laser pointed at your brain in the presence of an odor kind of count as a 'bad experience'?

I'm not sure how you create a control group for an experiment like this- shine the laser in the absence of odors so the fly is terrified of clean places? Isn't that how most flies act already?

-b

Re:Wait a second...

[TheClockworkSoul]

Well, just a thought, but wouldn't one such possible control be shining the laser on flies without ATP receptors?

Re:Wait a second...

[HeLLFiRe1151]

I was think perhaps associating the laser with an odor that the fly normally likes would provide a more accurate approach. What do I know though, I'm couldn't even pass for a geek let alone a scientist.

Giving flies bad memories?

[dov_0]

In my day we just ripped their wings off. This new stuff is REALLY sick...

Re:Giving flies bad memories?

[JoCat]

Headline: Slashdot scientists report first successful conversion of FLY into WALK.

NPR Science Friday

[Snowblindeye]

NPR's Science Friday had an interview with the one of the scientists this morning. You can listen to the segment here: http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200910161

Memory? Or an instinct?

[Tubal-Cain]

Are we sure it was a new memory they created? Because we can't just interview the flies about what they were thinking, how do we know the smell conjured up a fake memory rather than, say, just a strong feeling of unease?

Re:Memory? Or an instinct?

[Anonymous Coward]

As you might guess, the article title and summary are incorrect. The scientists *didn't* write a memory into the fly's brain, they exposed it to something to memorize (the smell) and then artificially triggered the store-this-as-bad circuitry. Which is still cool and interesting and all that.

Re:Memory? Or an instinct?

[node 3]

As you might guess, the article title and summary are incorrect. The scientists *didn't* write a memory into the fly's brain, they exposed it to something to memorize (the smell) and then artificially triggered the store-this-as-bad circuitry. Which is still cool and interesting and all that.

No, the article and summary are rather correct.

The fly's actual *experience* is of a smell that they didn't think was all that bad, but later, when they encountered the smell again, they remembered it as being something bad.

It's like if you ate some normal food, but a mad scientist tricked your brain into adding the "I didn't like this" flag to it while you were eating it. At the time, your emotion was a pleasantly eating some food, but later, when you encounter the food again, you feel repulsed by it, remembering it from before as being notably unpleasant.

Sounds like a bad experience to me

[mhwombat]

Doesn't having your "this is a bad experience" receptors activated count as a bad experience? I don't mean the whole brain-and-laser unpleasantness, I mean having negative-association cells firing in your brain at all. It might not just count as a bad association later, it might be pretty unpleasant now. In which case it's not a fake memory, it's a real memory.

For flies maybe this question has no meaning... maybe flies aren't conscious. If they did this to a higher animal (I have a horrible suspicion they will) it would be a question to ask. But a good question for this experiment would be: when they fire those brain cells, do the flies try to avoid what's going on immediately?

Re:Sounds like a bad experience to me

[TaggartAleslayer]

You've never actually had a girlfriend, have you? It's ok. Someone probably just implanted the odor of her in your brain and associated it with random stereotypes that apply only to 13 year olds. And yes, AC, she was very pretty... Just look into this light, and it's all going to work out.

Obligatory The Fly

[Anonymous Coward]

Help me!

Obligatory

[GameMaster]

WHOA, I know Kung-Fu!

Re:Obligatory

[liquidsin]

for the last time, no you don't.

Re:Why?

[Elokane]

The distance from this to what you think about when you say "memory" is as far as your use of "morals" in your argument irrelevant.

So how did they mess with the control group?

[adageable]

Hmm... let's see here..
Bad odor.... Check.
Laser beam directed INTO the brain.... uh... Check.
"Bad memories" induced.... err... Check.


And in other news... sugar tastes good.

Re:So how did they mess with the control group?

[janimal]

Right, they should've done it for something flies really like. Like poo.

Re:isnt this

[brentonboy]

It would be like making someone smell something and then NOT hitting them in the head with the pipe, but later, they think they remember being hit with the pipe even though they really weren't.

Re:Why?

[wizardforce]

Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain?

How about treating PTSD?

Re:Why?

[talcite]

Is there any morally correct application for 'writing' false memories into a brain?

Identifying the areas responsible for trauma and bad memories can be useful for treatment of patients who have experienced things like car crashes. It can help by reducing the effects associated with these memories.
The thing about research is that lots of times the applications are not immediately obvious. Academia does research all the time on subjects that people don't have uses for yet. You're right in pointing out the possible negative side effects of this knowledge though. It's something that is very often unavoidable in research. A good example of this would be nuclear fission and it's range of uses.

Re:Why?

[MrMista_B]

Is there anyone in you family that has alzheimers?

Is there anyone in your family that suffers moderate to severe memory loss as a result of accident, disease, or trauma?

Does your child have physical and mental problems that impair learning?

Fuck the flies, and fuck you for suggesting that research like this is 'immoral'. What's immoral is your haughty 'I'm holier than thou' attitude that just because you can't immediately grasp all the implications of an experiment, it shouldn't be done, the benefit be damned.

Re:Why?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Two basic lines of response:

A) Sure. Loads of morally correct applications. There are plenty of situations where the mere existence of a given memory is the point of the exercise. Many forms of instruction/training, for instance. If the memory of having read the manual is false; but the contents of the manual you falsely remember having read are true, you win. You'd need the subject's consent; but it isn't at all hard to imagine plenty of situations where people would be delighted to knowingly have various useful memories implanted.

B)An experimental result like this is quite far from application, well within the realm of basic research into memory functions. Understanding memory function, while it would have both positive and negative potential, is arguably a net positive. Right now, if I want to implant an unpleasant memory, or fuck with your sense of reality, or otherwise do nasty things to you, I don't really need a sophisticated understanding of memory. A water bottle and your T-shirt and no sense of decency will do well enough. If, however, I want to improve education, or understand why certain psychiatric disorders include serious memory problems, or treat brain injuries, or what have you, knowledge of the neurology of memory systems is necessary.

There could certainly be, at least in principle, scientific/technological developments that are just plain bad news; but I don't think that this is one of them. Virtually all the potential downsides can be achieved(or at least closely approximated) by far lower tech means, while many of the potential upsides are otherwise out of reach.

Re:Why?

[Greyfox]

If I could replace those years at school with a few minutes of some guy shining a laser directly into my brain, I'd do so in a heartbeat.

Re:Why?

[timmarhy]

" I'm all for scientific investigation,"

i don't think you managed to fool anyone with that statement.

Re:Why?

[geekgirlandrea]

It's a *fly*, for fuck's sake. Are you so intellectually sterile you can't believe in simple curiousity, and must suspect some nefarious ulterior motive in its place?

Re:Why?

[Coraon]

How about the ability to teach someone something almost instantly. For example, imagine bing able to give someone a university degrees worth of knowledge and then have them spend the time in school to see how they apply it. Or eventually being able to have yourself cloned and then when your near death be downloaded into your new body. No more pesky death to worry about.

Plagiarism

[Norsefire]

They stole this idea from Joss Whedon.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhhh....the beaches, the babes, all that free cake... I sure am gonna miss Vietnam.

Re:Hannibal Lecter style?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Short answer: Hannibal wants to fuck his sister and Clarice wants to fuck her daddy, but that's hidden under the romanticism of transference and psychotherapy and hypnosis and whatnot.

You want explicit? Earlier in the book about the pedophile Mason Verger's sodomizing little kids (including his own sister) with candy bars. He calls it "taking the chocolate". His sister gets her revenge by stuffing his pet eel into his throat after electro-ejaculating him with a cattle prod to collect his semen in a condom so her lesbian partner can have a heir the Verger estate. Fascinating, if unbelievable. And no, you won't see that stuff in the movie, either ;)

Note: the wikipedia link above is based off of the novel, not that pussy movie.

Re:Why?

[bsDaemon]

Because that worked out so well in Clockwork Orange...

Re:Why?

[palegray.net]

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Re:Great, so now the CIA is brainwashing flies!

[TheUz]

We could put it on a no-fly list.

Re:isnt this

[SEWilco]

It's like that car you owned last year which you didn't.