Amazon Hobbles Features For International Kindle

Barence writes "Amazon has stripped several key features out of the international edition of the Kindle, PC Pro has discovered. Newspapers and magazines are delivered without any photos, and the web browser has been disabled, presumably because Amazon doesn't want to foot the data bill. There's also a 40% premium on books bought via the Amazon store. 'International customers do pay a higher price for their books than US customers due to higher operating costs outside of the US,' an Amazon spokesperson confessed."

Comments

Another troll summary?

[radish]

1) The browser is not a "key feature" - it's barely useable and not an advertised/supported feature anyway.
2) Calling the Amazon explanation a "confession" seems a little biased...sounds quite reasonable to me to charge more if their costs are higher.

Re:Another troll summary?

[blowdart]

OK what costs? Scanning/turning into an e-book? I'd bet that the vast majority of the offered titles are the same as they offer in the US, and processed/made in the US (or wherever it gets outsourced to) - so there's no extra cost there? Hosting could be an additional cost, Amazon do have a data centre in Dublin, London and Frankfurt, but bandwidth isn't that much more expensive here. Tax? Well perhaps, although books tend not to be taxed in the UK - who knows how ebooks will be treated though. Or it's the typical US move of take the dollar price and convert it to pounds or euros by changing the currency symbol.

Re:Another troll summary?

[chadenright]

Logically speaking, why would their operating costs be any higher? They aren't actually shipping books around--they're shipping data. And that data is probably hosted on the same servers, maybe even the same bits as their US products.

A more reasonable explanation, in my opinion, is that pictures are being stripped and the internet locked down so they aren't liable under chinese law for anyone who evades the eWall of China. And they're charging more because they think they can get away with charging more, leading to higher profits.

That would be like me putting a download on my site and saying "If you live in the US, click HERE so I can charge you $10 usd. If you do not live in the US, click HERE so I can charge you $14 usd."

Re:Another troll summary?

[sznupi]

Regarding 1), free wiki acess anywhere seems really nice. I guess that falls under "disabling web browser" also?

Oh well; no Kindle for me then.

Re:Another troll summary?

[rodrigoandrade]

Not to mention exchange rates and associated taxes in foreign countries, which vary from country to country.

Slow news day, I guess.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Red Flayer]

2) Calling the Amazon explanation a "confession" seems a little biased...sounds quite reasonable to me to charge more if their costs are higher.

No offense, but if you accept that explanation, you're one of the suckers their PR people spew that line for. That's not why they are charging more. Prices are set based upon maximizing profitability, not based on "cost + some acceptable profit margin".

They've made the determination that they'll make more money selling overseas at a higher price (even if they sell fewer units). Their "higher costs" explanation is just a standard explanation for "we're going to charge more in a certain market because we've determined that's how we'll make the most money".

Re:Another troll summary?

[toppavak]

Its particularly odd that they would strip the browser citing costs when mobile internet access outside of the US is so much cheaper!

Re:Another troll summary?

[eldavojohn]

OK what costs? Scanning/turning into an e-book?

I think distributions rights get really complicated across regions and countries. If someone owns the rights to digital distributions or all distributions of a work, Amazon's probably got to pay them a premium for their market. Just look at DVDs, I can't even by "Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence" in the states. I would imagine selection would be vastly hobbled for several reasons across different countries. And let's not forget Germany's regulation of book prices "in an effort to protect authors, publishers, and small booksellers." There could be a lot of factors at work here--most of which are specific to a single country.

Re:Another troll summary?

[yamfry]

There may be a significant cost in converting from Letter size to A4.

Re:Another troll summary?

[MightyMartian]

It's amazing they let you cross borders with books in your possession. "I'm sorry, senior, but your copy of HP Lovecraft's Best is still under copyright in our country, we will have to seize it, fine you ten million pesos. As well, we see this is the third time you have tried to cross the border in such a fashion. Last time it was Shakespeare's Portfolio, which we explained to you was owned by Sony Bono's widow, and before that it was Homer's Iliad, which the Walt Disney Corporation has filed ownership for. Since this is your third violation, you will no longer be permitted to read books. Please lean back while I gouge your eyes out.,,"

What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.

Re:Another troll summary?

[b0bby]

Tax? Well perhaps, although books tend not to be taxed in the UK - who knows how ebooks will be treated though.

TFA says that EU taxes on ebooks are higher than paper books; if it's like most other VAT that's 20% right there, your $10 book becomes $12.

Re:Another troll summary?

[harlows_monkeys]

Logically speaking, why would their operating costs be any higher? They aren't actually shipping books around--they're shipping data. And that data is probably hosted on the same servers, maybe even the same bits as their US products

The data is essentially delivered by cell phone. They are using AT&T's international roaming service for the international Kindle, and that costs a lot.

Re:Another troll summary?

[amicusNYCL]

What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.

IP law didn't create the world you're describing, you did.

Re:Another troll summary?

[hattig]

You would think that in certain territories they would come to an arrangement with a native provider.

Going with AT&T is strange. T-Mobile, Vodafone, Telefonica, Three all have large international networks and one of these would be a far more logical provider for Europe than AT&T.

Instead they're going to make the product worthless and expensive.

Re:Another troll summary?

[MankyD]

It's not IP Law. It's marketing and, as frustrating as the end result is, it is completely reasonable in the bigger picture. If a product maker wants to sell their product for different prices in different places, then by all means, go for it. Furthermore, if an product maker needs to translate or in some other way localize their product for international markets, then that adds costs. There's nothing inherently wrong with adjusting your product for the market your selling in.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Again]

What a moronic and ludicrous world IP law has created.

IP law didn't create the world you're describing, you did.

In fact, you own it! And now if I wanted to create a similar story you could sue me. Wow, this is cool!

Re:Another troll summary?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK what costs? Scanning/turning into an e-book?

Dude! Have you ever tried turning an English book into Engrish?

Oh, they already speak English? Hrm, well, I guess then they'd have to create a "Ministry of Funny Spellings and Pronunciations" for words like 'color' and 'schedule.'

No? Ok, I'll leave.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Red Flayer]

What?

The Euro is valued over 40% higher than the dollar. The reason you keep the number price the same (unit-less) is because then you make more money on the sales in countries with more valuable currency, because (and this is the key aspect) people are willing to pay that price. That is it.

This is why everything in Kuwait is so expensive and Italy had really low prices before they joined the euro.

Currency exchange rates are only one small factor in the price differences, in USD, between Italy (pre EU), Kuwait, and anywhere else. It's a complex valuation between currencies which includes factors like money supply in each of the countries, GDP, local wage rates, and a host of other factors.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Late Adopter]

No offense, but if you accept that explanation, you're one of the suckers their PR people spew that line for. That's not why they are charging more. Prices are set based upon maximizing profitability, not based on "cost + some acceptable profit margin".

I agree with your post in entirety, but I'll take it a step farther and say "Who cares?" Different markets are different. Amazon doesn't owe you an explanation as to why it's "fair". You either take them up on their offer or not.

Non-story.

Re:Another troll summary?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'm just wondering how long it will be before somebody writes up a little program that automates the process of using wikipedia to "launder" material from the broader internet through wikipedia for free Kindle access.

Since anybody can edit wikipedia, you could easily stash a URL on some obscure page. This program, running on a computer with a real ISP, would be watching for edits made by you, and would respond to them by retrieving the requested URL, reformatting it, and posting that as a subsequent edit. The wikipedia guys would presumably crack down if it occurred on a wide scale; but a few geek enthusiasts, particularly if they cleaned up the edits used after they were finished, could probably fly under the radar for a good while.

Re:Another troll summary?

[phantomfive]

What on earth makes you think they can make an agreement w/ a euro cell carrier that is cheaper? Why on earth do you think they didn't try? I'll bet you don't even have a Kindle, don't want one, and just like to complain about evil corporations.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Dogtanian]

Different markets are different. Amazon doesn't owe you an explanation as to why it's "fair". You either take them up on their offer or not.

While you're correct that the public can accept or reject Amazon's offer, your implication that they don't have the right to discuss or criticise it as they're doing here is wrong.

The public don't owe Amazon the right to have them STFU and not discuss the merits and/or reasons behind their offer. Amazon have the right not to sell the product in the first place if they (or you) don't like it being discussed.

Re:Another troll summary?

[Eivind]

The EU isn't a country. Different nations have different taxes. Some require VAT to be paid on books, and others don't. (here in Norway, there's no VAT on books, nor any other tax)

Partially hobbled...

[Anonymous Coward]

... is still better than unavailable, which is the current state of the Kindle here in Canada (we don't even get the "International" version)

Re:Partially hobbled...

[Anonymous Coward]

... is still better than unavailable, which is the current state of the Kindle here in Canada (we don't even get the "International" version)

What part of "Third World Nation Axis of Evil" do you Nucks not understand?

Higher Costs outside the USA?

[RotateLeftByte]

That is Marketing Droid speak for

Lets screw everyone else.

I fail to understand the reasoning for this in places where Amazon already has a huge operation (eg UK)

Ah well, If they screw us up so much then people will find a way to get, sorry pirate or hack the US Editions and then watch Amazon cry fould as the whole thing is a mega flop just like the Zune is outside the US.(just an example)

When will the so called international companies really view the world as one big market and 'do the right thing'.

I certainly won't be buying one of these. I urge others to boycott them until the functionality is restored.

 

Re:Higher Costs outside the USA?

[h4rr4r]

The Zune is a huge flop inside the U.S. as well.

Re:Higher Costs outside the USA?

[John Hasler]

> When will the so called international companies really view the world as one
> big market and 'do the right thing'.

Perhaps when governments do likewise?

A market for middle men?

[maillemaker]

What is to stop someone from buying "American" book and reselling them to European customers for, say, only a 10% markup?

Oh, let me guess - no interoperability / not an open format.

Re:A market for middle men?

[Zerth]

Nothing, as long as you use a web proxy in the US for downloading and don't expect the wireless to work on a different cell network.

Re:A market for middle men?

[BZ]

Put that way, nothing except the fact that it's likely to not be profitable. Given a US price P (always excluding sales tax) and a VAT of 15-25% depending on the EU country (applies to e-books in most of them; must typically be included in the price by law) you have to charge somewhere between 1.15*P and 1.25*P just to break even.

So 10% markup in the list price would be a loss. 20% would be about break-even, if we assume a 20% VAT. A 10% increase in what the seller gets would mean a 32% markup in the list price given that same 20% VAT.

Amazon Offers Refund!

[starrsoft]

Amazon sent out an email this morning to people who bought an International Kindle (mine arrived yesterday) informing them that they had dropped the price by $20 and would be applying a $20 refund to my credit card. With this kind of customer service, I buy even my groceries from Amazon these days; no need to venture outside. I suspect that this is also fighting back against the Nook.

Legitmate conversion costs

[Anonymous Coward]

The books need to be converted from the NTSC format that America uses to the inferior PAL system that European books use.

After all...

[rinoid]

Amazon did have to lay the cable across the oceans to deliver said books. You gotta pony up!

Re:That's alright.

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of the kindle is that it has wireless GSM access built in.... and sadly you can't change it to a local Euro carrier. There is no SIM card to swap. Nice try, though.

Re:Do not buy Kindle

[Colonel Korn]

Why figth against a stupid corp like Amazon, if you can simply use real books (no DRM here, you can give then to your friends, sell, etc) or use a better - and open - option like one netbook with PDF reader? For me, Kindle is a expensive and useless toy.

This comes up with every Kindle article, and I tend to respond. A netbook, or anything else with a backlight, can't compete with a Kindle's readability. Of course there are other ebook readers, and there are also paper books, but the Kindle really is quite useful if you travel and want to bring a lot to read. Also, if you want to only read free (as in beer or speech, your choice) material you can do so on the Kindle. The DX, at least, reads pdfs without any conversion, and both versions read txt and several non-Amazon ebook formats.

yet their PAPER books are the same price

[petes_PoV]

On Amazon's websites: War and Peace, same edition, UK and US prices. Penguin Classics (paperback) in the US this is sold for $10.88 with free delivery. In the UK the price is £7.12 with free delivery. Using an exchange rate of $1.60 to the £, the prices are certainly not 40% different.

So why do I get the feeling I am being lied to?

Then this should be true also:

[maillemaker]

[b]There's nothing inherently wrong with adjusting your product for the market your selling in.[/b]

Then there should be nothing inherently wrong with me buying a product in any market available to me to buy from.

Wow really?

[aceofspades1217]

Was amazon really too stupid to contact vodafone or orange and get a plan from them. I mean really why would they actually pay roaming charges with AT&T. Its not like they bought the kindles from AT&T and AT&T locked them :D

Too Confused To Make Heads Or Tails?

[tunapez]

Here's a brilliant idea, DON'T BUY IT! Here is a WANT(read: not NEED) that costs way too much for it's purpose and is hobbled every time the lawyers gets a scent of blood or a penny. Vote with the only thing these corp's care about, your money! Stop being the consumption drone the media tells you to be!!!!

Too much to ask, I guess. Gotta get the new Droid...oh my, it's a phone, too? And the new Lana Johannah album, she's hawt! And of course, them 20" rims for the Prius, they save batteries cuz they are cooler!

/common sense

Solution is to include a wi-fi chip

[Anonymous Coward]

If the international kindle used wi-fi instead the problem of high data charges on a roaming US sim is gone. Or partner with a local GSM network. Am i missing something here? >> because this seems like a simple problem to solve.