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The Golden Age of Infinite Music

Over at the BBC, music journalist John Harris speculates on what may become of the music business now that we have entered the golden age of infinite music. "I've just poured the music-related contents of my brain into a book, and I would imagine that 30-ish years worth of knowledge about everyone from Funkadelic to The Smiths has probably cost me a five-figure sum, a stupid amount spent on music publications, and endless embarrassed moments spent trying to have a conversation with those arrogant blokes who tend to work in record shops. Last weekend, by contrast, I had a long chat about music with the 16-year-old son of a friend, and my mind boggled. At virtually no cost, in precious little time and with zero embarrassment, he had become an expert on all kinds of artists, from English singer-songwriters like Nick Drake and John Martyn to such American indie-rock titans as Pavement and Dinosaur Jr. Though only a sixth-former, he seemingly knew as much about most of these people as any music writer. Like any rock-oriented youth, his appetite for music is endless, and so is the opportunity..."

294 comments

  1. All you need to know about music... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    MADONNA IS THE BEST!

    MADONNA FANS DO IT BETTER

    Now go fuck off while I listen to Madonna - Celebration. =)

    1. Re:All you need to know about music... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Once again, I disagree with the moderators who did this.

      Not because it's spam, and because it's spam it should be modded down, no, I get that.

      Redundant? Where are the throngs of ACs clamoring for more Madonna albums?

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  2. It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by soporific16 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is exactly why 'piracy' is such a good thing. Before, when there were tollbooths before all the artists of the world, we could only really sample the delights of a few. Now, there's no where on earth most of us could afford to pay for all the content we consume. How can we be convinced that it is GOOD to be able to only taste a tiny fraction of what is out there? The Big Music enforced tollbooths are a plague of this planet, and it is PIRACY, resolving the contradictions of digital content in the age of private property, that is the cure.

    1. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know this is an unpopular opinion and... my own behavior makes me a hypocrite here, but let's stop pretending that piracy is awesome and great just because some of the claims about it are exaggerated.

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the music you're essentially losing money, in most situations. And no matter what some slashdotters CLAIM, yes, many people will not buy albums at all just because they can get them off soulseek or bittorrent or, god forbid, limewire.

      If I had to wager I'd suggest the more popular the band, the more they're hurt, relatively, by piracy, with the completely unknowns actually benefiting because then they get exposure--if you haven't yet proved yourself, who is gonna buy your CD? Most stuff is crap. But those that have proved themselves... "hey, I know I like this guy's music but I'm a cheapskate so I'm going to download that anyway." So the unknowns probably benefit in getting a reputation and thus being able to sell CDs. The semi-knowns, the guys most people won't ever recognize and aren't played on the radio, probably hurt the most because they tend to be on smaller independent labels and don't get the big gigs and such well-known groups do--and their CDs are generally less visible, too, this day and age sometimes sold only over the internet.

      Now, I have bought CD albums I'd downloaded that I wouldn't have if I'd not. Yes, that happens. But most people just want free mp3s on their portable music player, they aren't concerned about supporting the artist or even having a pressed CD as a collector's item or for preservation. But quit pretending that one counterpoint on the piracy issue or the fact that the effects of piracy are exaggerated by the RIAA especially for famous bands means piracy is universally a "good" thing. For many artists, it's not.

    2. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by gravos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure piracy is a good thing: the costs to society, especially in terms of legal enforcement, are immense. I hope it becomes irrelevant over time. Frankly I dunno why people are still so enamored of pirating music when there is so much GOOD stuff out there that's 100% free, legal, and sanctioned by the artists that you could listen to new music every moment of your life without spending a dime.

      Music, like other types of creativity, is in a race to the bottom because there's so much more content available than people can possibly listen to in their entire lives. I guess the only reason the music industry hangs on while the newspaper and publishing industries are dying is because music is harder for people to substitute... they hear a song on the radio or whatever and become enamored with particular artists, but the same doesn't really happen for particular writers.

    3. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 1

      If I had to wager I'd suggest the more popular the band, the more they're hurt, relatively, by piracy, with the completely unknowns actually benefiting because then they get exposure

      Assuming that that's an accurate assessment then it certainly sounds better than if the already popular bands were being boosted by it and those struggling to breka through were being held back. The question is whether it's a net good or a net bad. Is the overall effect such that more people can afford to dedicate time to creating music although fewer or none of them will become millionaires or is the overall effect that fewer people can afford to dedicate time to creating music. If the former then it's hard to see a problem with it. If the latter then it potentially raises issues to be resolved. But only potentially. Is there an optimum level of resources to dedicate to creating music? How do you tell what it is?

      --
      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
    4. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know this is an unpopular opinion and... my own behavior makes me a hypocrite here, but let's stop pretending that piracy is awesome and great just because some of the claims about it are exaggerated.

      Piracy is awesome and great because copyright no longer serves to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".
      Or do you really think the Berne Convention's life + 50 minimum accomplishes that goal?

      In the USA, life + 70 literally means that, at best, anything created in your lifetime will not become public domain until you are 70.
      More likely, you'll be dead and your children might see it fall into the public domain.
      I saw "might" because if the artist signed away their rights to a corporation, your grand-children will be the first to see it become public.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jurily · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And no matter what some slashdotters CLAIM, yes, many people will not buy albums at all just because they can get them off soulseek or bittorrent or, god forbid, limewire.

      Of course. But the solution to that is to sell to people who want to buy it, either to support the author, or to have a physical copy.

      People have been writing good music for fun (and for free) throughout history, just so that people can enjoy it. In fact, my suggestion to anyone who doesn't want me to listen to their music is to get a real job.

      P.S. I do buy music, mostly from local groups.

    6. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Lloyd_Bryant · · Score: 0

      In the USA, life + 70 literally means that, at best, anything created in your lifetime will not become public domain until you are 70.
      More likely, you'll be dead and your children might see it fall into the public domain.

      Er - life + 70 means *exactly* that. You will NOT live to see the copyright expire, no matter how long you live. Assuming that a child of yours is born the day you die, *he* will see the copyright expire when he hits the age of 70.

      I saw "might" because if the artist signed away their rights to a corporation, your grand-children will be the first to see it become public.

      It makes no difference who buys the rights after creation - the term is set based on the author's life + 70 years. The only exception is a "work for hire", in which case the term is either 95 years from first publication, or 120 years from date of creation, whichever is longer.

      --
      Don't tell me to get a life. I had one once. It sucked.
    7. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      you know what I LOVE about piracy?

      What I REALLY REALLY LOVE?

      All the Spice girls and Brittany spears of this world will burn the quickest. No more bullshit bands manufactured, spliced and merged together for a 'formula' that will make [money/music]. The smaller bands will make more money from gigs and merchandise from the fans that actually support them. The local bands will get more notice and the record industry will become a small advertising house.

      I love VNV Nation, I've never bought an album... I did however see them in Glasgow last week and bought over £100 in merchandise because I want to ADVERTISE them... if they come back here again I'll do it again

      Who is the biggest fool? paying for the music and paying to advertise your favourite band? I dont think so .

      Gone is the era of the multi-millionaire superstar (although they will still make money) and why the hell not? they are just doing a job like anyone else - and as a bonus they actually like doing their job!

      Now I need the same to happen to sports stars and I'll be happy. NOBODY is worth millions of dollars/pounds and I'm sure the fans would love to knock 60% off the already inflated ticket prices.

      People will pay for what they believe in, the main difference here is that most of the music out there now is shite. You talk about all the small bands losing the most... why? they already make sweet F all as it is. Music will become what it should be for most - a part time hobby. Lets also be honest here, it does not matter how little you people artists... music will ALWAYS be made (and people will always play football).

      Let them burn, we are over it already.

    8. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now, there's no where on earth most of us could afford to pay for all the content we consume.

      Perhaps because we consume so much more because we aren't worrying about paying for it.

      My father sits most of his days off in his chair reading and listening to an oldies station that plays the same 20 or so albums every day. I sit in my office at work and listen to a 1000 or so albums I've "acquired" sorted based on last listened to. That means I only hear the same song about once every couple months. We are listening to more music I'd say than previous generations just because we have convenient portable music devices, but we consume vastly more music than the previous generation just because we don't re-listen to things as much. Instead of getting an album a week or whatever instead whenever an artist we like, or even just an artist is recommended to us comes around we hit the internet and grab everything they've ever made. Maybe we only listen to it once and delete it but we don't care because we didn't pay for it.

      As for "music literacy" improving: perhaps. However I'd dispute most claims that it has any value. Very few people have work related to music, or even do any sort of critical thinking about the music. Heck most of my friends will even admit they don't care about the lyrics and haven't ever read them for their favorite bands. Music is just background noise that sounds good to us, that is about the extent that must of think about it. Being able to identify a band and name a song are very unlikely things to come up in a job interview or even in a social situation where people's view of you would depend on whether you know the answer or not. Its just trivia like people that can quote batting averages: no one really cares except the drunk idiot in the bar that is going to fight you during an argument over it.

    9. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I don't really know about that. The time is cheaper than it's ever been. So are the resources. You only have to buy an instrument once, but you can play it as long as it works. These days the most important tool you can have for music production is a laptop (and not all of the software is expensive - some of it's free).

      Besides, you forget that the majors would loan you that money - then take it out of your royalties, with interest. Yet another way they try to screw over the artist far more than a pirate ever will.

      Music doesn't need a budget. Never did. Overproduction, that needs a budget - but that's the major's gig. Piracy hurts the major labels, but it often (not always, but often) doesn't hurt the artists as long as they get known by it. Go on, ask Coulton, or Weird Al. Or Trent Reznor, or Radiohead. Things have changed, and are still changing. If you want to support them, actually go and see them; that does way more than the few pence they'll get skimmed off your iTunes download or CD purchase. Go on, go out and see a band you might never have heard of if you hadn't downloaded their MP3. Yeah, not many people do, but it doesn't take that many. You might not be a superstar, but you can play music and survive on it, and that's more than many have.

      And those semi-knowns? They get better known via the internet, not just the unknowns. Hell, it's one of their main promotion opportunities. It can be hard after the 15 minutes, true, but even the radio's becoming more open now. (Another reason we should resist killing net radio, and use licences on our music that don't let ASCAP/BMI collect from our music.)

      Besides, being a dick about piracy isn't going to help your reputation on the internet, because it's like being the dude at the party who doesn't let anyone drink. Swallow this: most music fans download MP3s. Hell, a lot of artists do. Getting in their face about it is not the relationship you want with your fans. You want them to share your music because word-of-mouth is the best damn kind of advertising. You want to be on Youtube or Myspace or Facebook... because can you go viral without it?

      It isn't always a positive thing, that's true. It's disruptive, and by their very nature disruptive things end one thing and start another. It's up to you to figure out how you can benefit from change, and get a nice viewpoint to watch these dinosaurs wail about like they're dying - while still posting profits. Now that's hypocritical...

    10. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by onallama · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Er - life + 70 means *exactly* that. You will NOT live to see the copyright expire, no matter how long you live. Assuming that a child of yours is born the day you die, *he* will see the copyright expire when he hits the age of 70.

      The original poster's statement was incorrect, but so is this. Life + 70 means the creator's life + 70 years, not mine. I could very easily live to see the copyright expire on works created in my lifetime, assuming that they were created when I was very young and that their creators died shortly thereafter. All I have to do is live seventy years beyond the age I was when they died, and pray that Congress doesn't extend it further...actually, you're right, I'll never see it happen.

    11. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the USA, life + 70 literally means that, at best, anything created in your lifetime will not become public domain until you are 70.

      I recently gained a new perspective on this when I reflected on the following:

      Let's say a 20 yo composes a new song. It's not unlikely that the person might live to be 90. That's 70 years right there. Add another 70 after the composer's death and you have 140 years of "protection". That means a work entering the public domain this afternoon would have had to be composed in 1869 -- four years after the close of the Civil war, given the current US term of copyright.

      Ken Burns wold barely have been able to produce his PBS series as all the letters he quoted would have just been coming off copyright at the time he was working on the series.

    12. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by OverlordQ · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Now, there's no where on earth most of us could afford to pay for all the content we consume.

      Could you repeat that, I'm afraid I couldn't hear you over your self-entitled whining.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    13. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Dysphoric1 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure piracy is a good thing: the costs to society, especially in terms of legal enforcement, are immense. I hope it becomes irrelevant over time

      If I were Bill Gates rich, I would make it irrelevant myself.

      I would create two monstrous supercomputers. The first would create musical melodies based on the number of notes required by copyright statutes to qualify as unique; the idea being to try and copyright all possibilities of note/time combinations for that level of uniqueness through brute force computing over time.

      The second supercomputer would analyze as much new music on the market as possible using the data from the first to determine infringement and automatically send out subpoenas to cease and desist.

      The eventual goal would be to crash the copyright system by eventually making it difficult and eventually impossible for anyone to create non-infringing music.

      With copyright no longer tenable, piracy would no longer exist and music, a performance art, would go back to being just that; a PERFORMANCE art.

    14. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you know what I LOVE about piracy?

      What I REALLY REALLY LOVE?

      All the Spice girls and Brittany spears of this world will burn the quickest. No more bullshit bands manufactured, spliced and merged together for a 'formula' that will make [money/music]. The smaller bands will make more money from gigs and merchandise from the fans that actually support them. The local bands will get more notice and the record industry will become a small advertising house.

      I love VNV Nation, I've never bought an album... I did however see them in Glasgow last week and bought over £100 in merchandise because I want to ADVERTISE them... if they come back here again I'll do it again

      Who is the biggest fool? paying for the music and paying to advertise your favourite band? I dont think so .

      I'm not sure I get the logic. Ok so you are willing to go to a VNV Nation concert and buy their merchandise. That's fine, but a million times as many people are willing to do exactly the same for Brittney Spears and likes. How is that hurting them the most? Do you think the millions of people that like and prefer that kind of music will suddenly stop to do so?

    15. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by turing_m · · Score: 1

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free.

      There are many things in life that are potentially worthwhile to boatloads of people, but don't have a workable business model (at least, not compared to selling out arenas). Cures for things - the money is in treating symptoms, not coming up with a cure. Teaching people how to live within their means, or warning them about the realities of Scientology, or Amway. Advancing the frontiers of science. Creating some sorts of FOSS.

      I know you have not made the argument that musicians are entitled to do what they do as a profession, but it is implied by many. Why should legislation be crafted specifically and at the expense of the public's freedom to make it relatively easy for musicians to make money?

      --
      If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
    16. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      Piracy isn't a good thing, but let's face it, these bands of which you speak are never going to make any money. the *only* people who make money out of cds are the super famous and the record companies.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    17. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I completely agree with you. Now, there is a factor that acts upon the rest of the world that is probably not seen inside the US, and completely ignored by most publishers. We usually pay A LOT of taxes to get some things imported. I live in Brazil (one of the countries that have more taxes in the world), and my friends in the US can't believe how much I pay for some things like CDs and books.

      An example is the Andy McKee albums. I really admire that guy. His album costs 14.95 at his publisher's website, a very reasonable price. When I look at sites to buy this in Brazil, I get the price of R$ 95 for the imported version. At a conversion rate of almost 2:1, this would be about USD 45. Now, remember we are in a third world country, and you can assume that we get paid half (for a good job, and I am being very optimistic here) of the average in the US. If you look at the percentage of money you spend in this things in relation to how much you earn, its a huge price. I would go to his show to support him, but travelling to another continent to do this is not an option.

      You in the US may imagine as well paying $100 or $150 for each album you want. Of course, not everything costs that much. All big artists are redistributed in scale by local publishers, and the price drops to $15 - $30. But most of the bands I like are not big, and the only option is to either import or buy the MP3 online, which I do sometimes. Books are more of a problem, since they need to get translated to be re-published, and this is much harder, specially the ones for very specific topics.

      Still, the parent post is right at the fact that we simply have too much choice. Yes, I would love to have money to pay for absolutely everything I download, but I simply don't have. And its not a matter of getting a better job, its simply impossible for a regular person that pays all the taxes, support the family, etc. I pay for some, I support them when I can. Its just impossible to support all of them. Also, I can read english and have an international credit card to buy PDFs and MP3. Its not the case of the majority of the people, specially regarding music.

      And I'm sorry, but I won't stop listening to music or reading books just because I don't have money to buy them. It may sound unfair, but its the truth.

    18. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by nvivo · · Score: 1

      I like the approach of the Gov't Mule (www.mule.net). They are a really great band, one of the best I have ever heard. And they allow people to record and publish their live performances for free (usually available at bt.etree.org).

      So, they have the studio albums they sell, and don't allow people to distribute it. And people usually don't, because the live versions are available for free. And still, they have a huge fan base, enough to do about 20 shows every month. This probably works very well for them. Not everyone can do it, but it surely works as an alternative model for a lot of bands.

    19. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by jamesh · · Score: 5, Funny

      Life + 70 means the creator's life + 70 years

      So... to give our (great?) grand-children a free world, we should be killing off all the creators now right? :)

      "Well you see son, there used to be this thing called a 'rock star', and they made music. But we had to kill them all to set the music free. It was the only way."

    20. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by nvivo · · Score: 1

      Frankly I dunno why people are still so enamored of pirating music when there is so much GOOD stuff out there that's 100% free, legal, and sanctioned by the artists that you could listen to new music every moment of your life without spending a dime.

      Well, that is quite of an stupid argument if you think about. The reason is very simple: because people want to hear that specific person singing that specific song. I could open youtube and get 50 covers of pink floyd, but listening to Davig Gilmour and his feeling is much better.

      I agree that there are good stuff out there for free, but that doesn't exclude the good paid stuff that is already out there too. Having the milk available doesn't stop people from wanting cookies.

    21. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Patch86 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I want to know where this idea has come from that making music should make you a millionaire.

      Before the 20th century it didn't. Even some of the most respected composers in history earned only enough for a comfortable life, and the talented musicians could only expect a livable wage. Somehow, though, somewhere in the 20th century came the concept that every single mediocre pop act should earn 6 figure sums, and the "best of them" should be earning millions, into eternity.

      Traditionally, artists were expected to earn their crust from live shows- something which is not only not harmed by piracy, but actually bolstered by it. And traditionally, recordings and covers and such (insofar as they happened) were sold at only a little above cost.

      And somehow, despite this lack of monetary incentive, magnificent music still got made. Musicians made music because it was what they loved to do, and the music scene was a lot better for it.

      So enough of the painful regurgitation of the myth that "if you don't pay £10 for an electronic download of the latest album, music itself can't happen". When the music industry returns to a realistic business model, piracy will end.

    22. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by nvivo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, I'm sure your dad listened to a lot of other bands in his time. Maybe not as much as you do, but he surely did listen to more things.

      What happens is that some music gets stuck in your mind, and as you grow old, the rest of the world changes and you can't find new music that you like anymore, so you stick with the ones you already like.

      I bet in 40 years or so, you will be like this too, listening to the same old MP3 you have for 30+ years while your son and grandson make fun of how you listen only to that old crap and how the new format is much better because you can change the instruments while you listen, or change the singer... and you will wonder why the hell they care about that.

    23. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by bobintetley · · Score: 1

      I would create two monstrous supercomputers. The first would create musical melodies based on the number of notes required by copyright statutes to qualify as unique; the idea being to try and copyright all possibilities of note/time combinations for that level of uniqueness through brute force computing over time.

      Except you can't copyright music and melodies.

      You can copyright lyrics and you can copyright sheet music (as both are written works). Copyright covers the expression of an idea, not the idea itself. That's why recordings of songs get copyright protection, but not the songs themselves. People seem to have forgotten this somewhere along the way, or recording companies would try and have us think otherwise.

    24. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      a million times as many people are willing to do exactly the same for Brittney Spears and likes.

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising and promotion.
      Even for the big acts who like to spend it up on coke and hookers it costs less than $100K to cut an album, but it costs millions to promote that album.
      If you take the big money out of music, the massive over-spending on promotion will be the first thing to go.

      Now you've got hundreds of millions of people who have to figure out on their own what music they like. It will cause a renaissance as the big acts will no longer be there to hoover up the lion's share of audiences.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    25. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by wisty · · Score: 1

      Look at where the big money gets spent. Marketing, promotion, and tacky video clips.

      It's just like the pharmaceutical industry - basically all the costs are adding no value to the product, just getting the product out there. Something that would be far easier if the product was cheaper.

    26. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      Where is all the free music from the 1930s? Surely some of those people might have died soon after. Has their stuff gone into the public domain? Any of it?

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    27. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      While I agree that just taking the music isn't right. Who says music should be the price that it is? It's only a relatively recent thing where most musicians could be rich spoiled jerks.

      We have to assume society deemed them worthy of it. Maybe things have gone too far and people have realise they're not worth it. I see a legitimate reason why, for example, Madonna deserves to have millions as do the people working for her record label.

      Surely not having a job where you have to scoop shit out of a public toilet should be payment enough.

      Musicians are just doing what any other employee would do once their job has been devalued but I don't think they'll be able to stop it. Mainly because so few of them can actually sing and play an instrument without the computer doing the bulk of the work. Quite frankly, I'd be happy to what they're asking as long as the money goes towards the one doing most of the work - the computer.

    28. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Splab · · Score: 1

      You need something quite a lot more powerful than a "super computer". Lets just for simplicity assume that you can only have 100 distinct places to place a node, assume there are only 4 distinct nodes, to cover all combinations you got 2^101.

      Lets assume you can cover 4 billion distinct "songs" every second, and for simplicity lets do it like: 2^32 which is larger than 4 billion. That means you need 2^69 seconds to cover everything, you might as well try to calculate the answer to life, universe and everything...

    29. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on

      Hold on now. Why can't you make money on that time? If your labor as an artist is valuable, then you can sell it, just like a house painter or a gardener or a lawyer sells their time. Find some people who want you to write music, and convince them to pay you.

      and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the music you're essentially losing money, in most situations.

      You don't need to sell the music any more than a house painter needs to sell painted houses, or a gardener needs to sell gardens, or a lawyer needs to sell trials.

      The act of writing and performing the music is what's valuable. Making copies, on the other hand, is something anyone can do with no special training or equipment. It doesn't make sense for the public to rely on artists to distribute copies; they should leave the distribution to whoever can get it done most efficiently, and right now that seems to be P2P networks.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    30. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by manicb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The smaller bands will make more money from gigs and merchandise from the fans that actually support them. The local bands will get more notice and the record industry will become a small advertising house.

      What is a "local band" when people discover their music through the internet?

      The internet equivalent to a local band is a band that is big on whichever sources you use, i.e. myspace, Jamendo etc. It's the bands that your friends have found and link you to. For practical purposes that's a huge difference. Thanks to the internet, I've discovered bands that I love, who will NEVER EVER tour the UK. Why? Firstly because they may be playing a relatively niche genre of music, and would not be able to pull in enough people to make it worthwhile, even if they are excellent in that niche. Secondly because being a "part time hobby" band is pretty incompatible with touring.

      Music will become what it should be for most - a part time hobby. Lets also be honest here, it does not matter how little you people artists... music will ALWAYS be made (and people will always play football).

      You want to see bands live, and you're happy for all musicians to be part-time? Ok, say I blow a couple of weeks' holiday to tour... I'm not going to be touring anywhere near you, am I?

      I write/record/rehearse/perform in my spare time. I know I would be able to write far more, far better music if I was dedicated to it full-time. I have the utmost respect for those willing to make that leap, because it's quite a gamble and a sacrifice they are making, especially in this age. Is that good for music? Do you think a band like Radiohead could exist if they weren't 100% dedicated to it? You risk advocating quantity over quality.

    31. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...this thing called a 'rock star', and they made music. But we had to kill them all

      Where can I sign up for this insanely great plan of yours?

    32. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a million times as many people are willing to do exactly the same for Brittney Spears and likes.

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising and promotion. Even for the big acts who like to spend it up on coke and hookers it costs less than $100K to cut an album, but it costs millions to promote that album. If you take the big money out of music, the massive over-spending on promotion will be the first thing to go.

      Now you've got hundreds of millions of people who have to figure out on their own what music they like. It will cause a renaissance as the big acts will no longer be there to hoover up the lion's share of audiences.

      I disagree, I think people will still like the same type of music, and that is more than a little arrogant and elitist to assume that people that don't like the same music as you onlyn do it because they are brainwashed to.

    33. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I disagree, I think people will still like the same type of music, and that is more than a little arrogant and elitist to assume that people that don't like the same music as you onlyn do it because they are brainwashed to.

      I have the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on music marketing to back up my opinion.
      What basis do you have for your beliefs?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    34. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by misexistentialist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What business hasn't focused increasingly on wider distribution, lower quality, and powerful marketing to multiply profits? Do the guys at Google or Microsoft or Berkshire Hathaway or Walmart deserve their fortunes that make rock-stars look like blue-collar laborers? Sure, musicians are overpaid, but it's a little unfair to expect them to work in the name of pure art when everyone else in the post-industrial age is getting filthy rich. Even office workers expect to retire millionaires, doctors multi-millionaires; performing before hundreds of thousands of people and having your songs on millions of ipods should qualify you for some riches.

    35. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by ergean · · Score: 1

      Thank you!

      Never heard about VNV Nation but I love this:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu-8wGbWMro

      Ahrrr!!! Here I go to pirate it. :D

    36. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50++ comments, yet yhy is yhy spelled yhy in all of them?

    37. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising and promotion.

      And incidentally, the reason advertising and promotion is so effective, is because IP has a high margin profit, so it is profitable to spend a huge part of the product cost/price on advertising and promotion.

    38. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Wildclaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something that would be far easier if the product was cheaper.

      But the goal isn't to make a cheap products. The goal is to maximize profit. And that is done by using your artificial monopoly (allowing for high margin profits) combined with huge amounts of advertising (supported by the high margin profits) to increase sales.

    39. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course. But the solution to that is to sell to people who want to buy it, either to support the author, or to have a physical copy.

      If you're going to make this argument, please use words precisely. What you mean when you say "buy" is actually "donate". Almost by the definition of capitalism, if you are "selling" to somebody who doesn't have to pay you (in fact, probably won't) then you're actually operating a charity and relying on donations to survive.

      This isn't necessarily a bad model - as you point out, it has worked before. But it resulted in a stifling and uninnovative musical environment (good for religious folks though). If we're going down that road, society should be entirely clear about it to the musicians of the future. If a child ever says, "when I grow up I'm going to be a musician", we need to tell them - no you're not. Being a musician is a hobby that you do in your spare time.

      And if we're going to do that for music, then really we should be consistent and say that for every job that is based on people getting paid for copyrighted works. For instance, if that child says "oh well. in that case I want to make video games!" - same thing. No you're not. You will get a job where you are paid per hour of your labor like the rest of the world.

      Ditto for movies, books .... who knows what else in future.

      But in reality, nobody wants to take that position. You claim you do, because "people have made music without being paid before", but that logic doesn't really generalize to other things like movies or video games. Music might well survive through the power of the amateur, but the rest probably won't. The popularity of big budget movies and games strongly suggests that most people are not willing to let it go just yet.

      And that is why I think you are wrong.

    40. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      I want to know where this idea has come from that making music should make you a millionaire.

      I want to know where this idea has come from that making anything should make you a millionaire.

      While too small income differences are bad for motivation, too large income differences are bad for general health and morale (Not "moral"). It is a difficult balance to walk, but I think the US and many other countries lost it in the late 20th century. The top margin income tax percentages plummeted, and it didn't take long before the vultures came in to feed, transferring capital from productive companies to themselves.

    41. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by dwandy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now I need the same to happen to sports stars and I'll be happy. NOBODY is worth millions of dollars/pounds ...

      I was right with you until this point.
      The definition of what something is worth is what someone else will pay ... hence, these sports stars are in fact worth the millions they are paid.
      This is a pure economic equation: The sport franchise only needs N players* and they have revenue of R. Roughly speaking, the owner of the team is willing to pay "(R - other-expense) / N" per player.

      ...and I'm sure the fans would love to knock 60% off the already inflated ticket prices.

      Again, basic economics disagrees with you: there are N seats in the arena and G games. They can't manufacture more, so they are trying to determine the maximum price to sell N * G tickets each season. If you find the price steep that simply means that N * G people** in your area value tickets more than you do.

      On a related note, this is why movie stars get paid so much: the movie only needs one star and the production company expects to be able to make millions in revenue, and the belief that certain actors will generate greater revenue. Contrast with stage actors who don't get paid millions due to the limited income on a nightly basis. The important fact out of this is that we don't have to worry that without copyright acting will die. Tom Cruise, on the other hand will have to choose between not working, working as an actor for a lot less, or finding alternate employment.

      * For most businesses when they have extra money they can hire more people to try to do more of whatever they do. For a sports franchise they are prohibited from hiring more people, so they instead start to bid more for the better talent, driving the price per person up.
      ** Where some people value it so much that they purchase multiple games up to and including season's pass.

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    42. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably some Ink Spots songs are public domain now. Go check Internet Archive.

    43. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Well, except when someone actually is worth millions, because he really is that great. Well not exactly millions, but a large sum to live in luxury. I can imagine humans who give others so much, that they deserve it. In German, deserving and earning are the same word for a reason!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    44. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by dwandy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the music industry returns to a realistic business model

      The first problem is the terminology: "the music industry" does not have a problem with piracy. The "music recording and publishing industry" has a problem with piracy. Note that it's the Recording Industry Association of America that is talking. The recording industry keeps saying that the "music industry" is in trouble, but it turns out it's just the recording industry that's in trouble: the music industry revenue is up.

      So if you're interested in helping to solve all this, the first thing is to take back the language: the music industry is not only alive and well - it's growing. People are spending more on music then ever before, it's just the recording industry that needs to adapt. (imho, they can adapt by following in the footsteps of the dinosaur and extinct already...)

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    45. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There will always be room for the 'produced bands'. Sure they will appeal to mostly pre and early teens, but the market wont dry up.

      I also disagree with your view on "worth", they are worth whatever they can get. YOU may not think they are worth it, but others do.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    46. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These days anyone can advertise and promote themselves at very little cost. Just put up a website, post some videos to Youtube and submit everything to Digg (or Slashdot perhaps).

    47. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tepples · · Score: 1

      but that logic [of donating part-time labor to art] doesn't really generalize to other things like movies or video games. Music might well survive through the power of the amateur, but the rest probably won't.

      Only because the consoles on which video games are run are such hostile environments to amateurs. Nintendo, for example, expressly forbids home-based businesses. Sure, PCs are more open to amateurs, but until home theater PCs become more common, PCs aren't suitable for all genres. If you want to see even a sliver of the effort that amateurs would take if not bound by artificial platform restrictions, look at the "homebrew" sites such as wiibrew.org.

    48. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tepples · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I guess a solution for you is learn to like Brazilian bands, which (I'm guessing here too) don't get taxed as hard.

    49. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I could open youtube and get 50 covers of pink floyd

      All of which likely infringe the copyright in the musical works in question because at least in the United States, home of YouTube, there is no compulsory license scheme for Internet jukebox performances.

    50. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Except you can't copyright music and melodies.

      You can copyright lyrics and you can copyright sheet music

      Under that interpretation, a cover song is a derivative work of the sheet music. Accidentally copying nine notes from another song has resulted in a finding of copyright infringement. Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music.

    51. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by RichardJenkins · · Score: 1

      There are huge, very expensive marketing campaigns behind the teen-pop successes. In a pro-piracy world, those type of campaigns wouldn't make sense, so those type of artists would suffer.

    52. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by c · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > let's stop pretending that piracy is awesome and great
          > just because some of the claims about it are exaggerated.

      Piracy is a bad, but it appears to be better than most of the alternatives we've seriously tried (although there are new models being tried which may prove better) and it's a boatload better than the direction music was going before digital copyright infringement became mainstream and it's giving a thorough kick in the pants to the people who were taking us in that direction.

      Economically, piracy is probably not sustainable in the long term. On the other hand, the model where a bunch of greedy gatekeepers slowly trickle out overpriced and overcontrolled garbage via a series of tightly held outlets wasn't culturally healthy.

      There's probably a solution that falls somewhere in between, but until we find it...

      c.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    53. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by scarboni888 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      This argument is about whether piracy is 'right' or 'wrong' is obsolete in my mind. The problem with the recorded entertainment industry is supply & demand. Not only should I *NEVER* have to pay a penny for any music, video, or text I 'consume' but as a person who pays attention to any one particular artist or production company I should be valued & yes - maybe even paid!! Ludicrous, you say? Well consider this: I have so much entertainment distraction opportunities out there now that the law of supply and demand is what makes any of it pretty much value-less Why should I pay for anyone's entertainment or information when I can turn to someone else to get it free - AND OFTEN TIMES LEGALLY! There are plenty of entertainment outlets out there that somehow have managed to create a business model of free for the consumer.

      And I really couldn't care less about the 'unknown artist' versus the 'already succeeded artist' or any of that crap - it's not my concern. AGain - there's such an infinite variety of distraction out there that the artists need to start valuing the fact that if I sacrifice my valuable time & energy to pay attention to them & whatever it is that they are on about as opposed to the infinite other options I have.

      How many movies are cranked out every single day? How many ditties? How much infotainment? I bet at this point, worldwide, there's more content produced in one day than I can consume in a lifetime. It's like air - you can't charge for it!! Oh and if you can't make a living as an artist with this reality boo hoo for you - get a real job!!

      *ANY* attempt at extracting any amount of money from me for being entertained is what's thievery as far as I'm concerned. Screw this piracy argument - it's completely irrelevant when the supply part of 'supply & demand' is pretty much literally INFINITE!

    54. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by __aapspi39 · · Score: 1

      very true. have a look at the recent success of flash games.
      unlike consoles they benefit from the intelligence and creativity of the pool of homegrown talent out in the wild and unlike consoles they're doing increasing well.

      pc games did show signs of encouraging the great user generated content that appeared, but the move towards consoles obviously hasn't helped here.

      as far as games are concerned, where people don't have products shoved down their throats by the marketing and hardware restrictions of big companies, they will go elsewhere.

      i would argue that the same thing happened in music.

      the notion that big firms and corporations can cash in on the creative process seems to be dying out in a lot of ways. the application of business principles and the accompanying contempt they have for both the artist and the consumer is most unwelcome, and above all - it just doesn't work anymore. it produces something that people don't want.

      crysis, kylie, terminator 7: as far as i'm concerned they can all go back from whence they came.

    55. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Fael · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing is, people don't torrent Beyonce to protest the copyright status of Richard Strauss. They just want free stuff. If the duration of copyright were revised drastically downward, people would still pirate the most current music. I'm not defending life+70 - it's patently insane (ha ha) - but let's not pretend it has any bearing on this issue.

    56. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jawn98685 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the music you're essentially losing money, in most situations. And no matter what some slashdotters CLAIM, yes, many people will not buy albums at all just because they can get them off soulseek or bittorrent or, god forbid, limewire.

      Rubbish. Utter and uninformed rubbish. Among the qualities that make a given piece of music, or a particular performance of a piece of music, "good", the technology stack is only a small part. It most certainly does not take take a raft of "instruments and... computer equipment..." to make good music. One of the most stirring performances I ever witnessed was the appearance by Dave Stewart and Annie Lennox on the old Arsenio Hall show. Dave's guitar was the only "instrument" that cost any money at all, but the mastery displayed by the two artists that day was one of those rare magical moments that anyone involved in the performance and/or production of music knows so well; that chills-down-your-spine electrifying experience when it all comes together so perfectly and everyone in the room feels it. It wasn't the technology. One of the most powerful musical recordings I own is Miles Davis's "Kind of Blue". When that recording was made, over fifty years ago, they used then-state-of-the-art technology, which is to say "crude and simple technology" by today's standards. Nevertheless, "Kind of Blue" is still widely regarded as one of the greatest jazz recordings of all time. Recording technology that is far superior to that used to make those recordings is within financial reach of almost anyone. What is nowhere nearly so readily available, alas, is the mastery of the artistic and technological domains, both of which are required to make "good" recorded music. I hesitate to beat the "mp3 format sucks" drum yet again, but I'm afraid I must. The prevalence of shitty sounding "product", to the extent that quality lossless recordings are all but unavailable, has reduced the value that recorded music has. It used to be that part of that value was the distribution medium. It did cost a lot of money to make a recording and get it "pressed" and distributed. No more. People won't buy recorded music unless they see enough value in it. DRM is an attempt to artificially increase the "value" of a particular "copy" of a recording. The market is demonstrating, with alarming efficiency, that it will not tolerate such manipulation.

      If the recording "industry" is to survive, it needs to remake itself from the ground up. It needs to be about delivering a product that does offer enough value that people will pay something for it, even if that something is only a token amount that is calculated to provide the artists and engineers with enough incentive to keep doing a good job. That rather leaves out most of the traditional music industry payroll. The role of manufacturing LP's, tapes, or CD's is gone. Distribution? Anyone with a web server can distribute music. There is arguably still a role for the "A&R" people, but it is going to be vastly different too. The upshot is that music should cost the consumer a lot less than it does now, and that the artists, engineers, and producers should get the lion's share of the proceeds because it is they who are now producing the only thing of significant value.

    57. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by shiftless · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know this is an unpopular opinion and... my own behavior makes me a hypocrite here, but let's stop pretending that free software is awesome and great just because some of the claims about it are exaggerated.

      Making software--good software--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and tools and computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the software you're essentially losing money, in most situations. And no matter what some slashdotters CLAIM, yes, many people will not buy software at all just because they can get it off APT or yum or, god forbid, portage.

    58. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. And my suggestion to Starbucks is- if you don't want me drinking your coffee (free) then go into some other line of business. Btw. People have been listening to music free since the inception of the radio.

    59. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the music you're essentially losing money...

      Mozart and Beethoven sold a combined 0 albums in their days.

      Any idiot can make an album for next to nothing in today's age. To say that it costs a lot of money is literally ridiculous. A used laptop and a small midi keyboard is enough for me to control a very wide range of software with which to make music.

      Let live performance attendance be the way that these "artists" make money if the people think you deserve it. Not everyone who makes an album DESERVES to be paid for it. Some of them are complete garbage.

      Worth is determined by the populace. You can't just randomly assign worth to an object. It's about what people are willing to pay for it.
      If you decide that your album is worth 20 dollars, and knowingly release the album at that price with the full knowlege that it will be leaked on the internet, you deserve to have your albums stolen.

      Figure out a new distribution method that the populace determines valid if you're so concerned with piracy. You're about to have an entire generation of people raised on free, pirated music. Do you think any of them are trying to come up with a way to fix your broken system? I doubt it.

    60. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by phyrz · · Score: 1

      I'm sure if you had that setup and half a brain cell in your head, you would retire a millionaire regardless of copyright law.

      --
      Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
    61. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>The original poster's statement was incorrect...

      No it wasn't. Reread: "In the USA, life + 70 literally means that, at best, anything created in your lifetime will not become public domain until you are 70." In other words if Lady Gaga released a new CD today, and a baby was born today, and Gaga died in a horrible accident later tonight, her CD would not become public domain until the baby was a 70-year-old man. That's best case.

      Worst case is Gaga might live to be 120, then 70 years on top of that, means today's released CD would not be public domain until around the year 2180.

      The original 1790 Copyright Act was saner. 14 years with possibility of renewal, for 28 years max. That's reasonable length of time for a monopoly, and it gives the artist plenty of opportunity to recoup his labor costs via sale of the book/song.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    62. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The billions of dollars that they make back.

    63. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Has anyone considered that teens might be hearing this music LEGALLY via the internet radio stations and youtube.com and other streaming sites?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    64. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by EpsCylonB · · Score: 1

      I disagree, Britney isn't successful because some secret cabal made it so, people actually bought her records.

      I suspect when the dust settles over the piracy you will still have artists like her, they fill a desire in the market.

    65. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by khallow · · Score: 1
      There's a famous quote by Louis Brandeis:

      Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.

      I believe this applies in the current situation as well. The US government is protecting the wealth of certain powerful copyright holders like Disney to an unconstitutional and hence illegal extent. It breaks fundamental law. Further it does so at the expense of the future of the US and its citizens. Why should we decry music pirates when this greater crime goes unpunished?

    66. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 1

      There are costs incurred by allowing music to be copied freely, and costs incurred by restricting it. By allowing it to be free, it is harder for bands to make money, and this will lead to less music being made. But when we enforce copyright, it severely limits the ability of people to discover and enjoy all the music which already exists.

      This debate should come down to asking which is the greater cost to society as a whole. I say that the second cost is far greater. Personally, I would have missed out on so much music if I had to pay money for it before I even knew if I'd like it. I think the world is a better place if everyone has the option to explore their musical tastes freely.

      It's not as if we are going to have a shortage of bands just because they can't sell CDs. They will have to find other ways to make money, or just make music for music's sake. The best way for a band to make money is by putting on shows. I love to support bands by going to see them when they come to my area. They can also make money through merchandise, collectible recordings, sponsorships, etc.

    67. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Is there an optimum level of resources to dedicate to creating music? How do you tell what it is?

      I'm not sure that there is - or rather, if there is, then that optimum is "a shitload". A lot of my music, legitimately purchased over the last few years is recorded on the ECM label, and these recordings are so stupendously well produced and recorded that MP3 recordings just don't do them justice in any cases other than the comparatively high-ambient-noise situations in which the iPod thrives.

      To be clear, I'm not knocking MP3s; I use my iPod a lot, but when I'm at home in my own living-room the compressed format just doesn't cut it. And, for that matter, neither does the so-called Apple Lossless format, as delivered by their devices.

      But I digress: what I meant to say was that the readily-downloaded media are something of a trap. I think we are going to be left with a whole generation that has no idea what their music is actually supposed to sound like.

    68. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      The thing is, people don't torrent Beyonce to protest the copyright status of Richard Strauss.

      This is true. But nobody would admit torrenting Beyonce at all.

    69. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Narpak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and become enamored with particular artists, but the same doesn't really happen for particular writers.

      I would like you to reconsider that statement after I have listed the following names: Rowling, Meyer, Clancy, King. These are four random modern day authors each which a part of their audience being what I would call "enamoured" with their writing.

    70. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by zehaeva · · Score: 1

      Given that up until recently this is was how pretty much all music was made, I believe that you have reduced the likes of Mozart, Beethoven and Bach to creating merely stifled and uninnovative music.

      I'll agree on the point of big budget movies being thrown out with all this. Games and books however I don't think will be.

      I would like to state that I don't think a system that relays on patrons in this day and age would work. But the donations thing may.

      I myself would like to see a more sane copyright term. Something like 25 years or so should do it.

      There is no reason to let those who make "Intellectual Property" have such a huge monopoly on their works. Other Intellectual Properties, like Patents, expire on a term of 14years. Could you imagine a world where patent law was guaranteed for life +70 years?. I believe the Air Conditioning (invented in 1902) would still be covered. Imagine a world where only Carrier Corporation could make AC systems. Good news would be that in this weird world the patent should be up in 10 more years! Assuming it doesn't get extended any more.

      Just imagine the LACK of innovation that would have been brought to the world if this were the case.

      There was a time when Patent Law and Copyright Law were in lockstep and now they are not. I think its time that we bring them back together, for better or worse.

      ~Zehaeva

    71. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tsm_sf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But I digress: what I meant to say was that the readily-downloaded media are something of a trap. I think we are going to be left with a whole generation that has no idea what their music is actually supposed to sound like.

      So what kind of wooden knobs would you recommend for their ipods?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    72. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The only problem with that assertion is that art and culture is not a consumer good which may benefit from replacement goods. You can't replace a Michaelangelo's David with some generic sculpture made by your local sculptor, you can't replace Mona Lisa with a painting by your local painter nor you can replace Romeo & Juliet with some local play written locally. Artworks advance the human condition and you cannot avoid the advancements they bring/represent just because a region happens to have taxes on a certain good. To think otherwise is ignorance at best.

    73. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Joe+Mucchiello · · Score: 1

      There was a time when Patent Law and Copyright Law were in lockstep and now they are not. I think its time that we bring them back together, for better or worse.

      Don't say things like that. Someone will get the bright idea to extend patents until 90 years after the death of the inventor.

    74. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by westlake · · Score: 1

      Piracy is awesome and great because copyright no longer serves to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".
      Or do you really think the Berne Convention's life + 50 minimum accomplishes that goal?

      Yes I do.

      Because to obtain a copyright you have to produce a work that has some originality.

      Wall-E had robots.

      But it wasn't Star Wars or The Iron Giant. It wasn't The Transformers. It wasn't a showcase for Will Smith or Robin Williams.

      It had its own story to tell and did so superbly - taking home every award the Sci-Fi community had to offer.

    75. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These days anyone can advertise and promote themselves at very little cost. Just put up a website, post some videos to Youtube and submit everything to Digg (or Slashdot perhaps).

      So, payola is free now?

    76. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by westlake · · Score: 1

      Ken Burns wold barely have been able to produce his PBS series as all the letters he quoted would have just been coming off copyright at the time he was working on the series.

      Entry into the public domain doesn't guarantee survival. Paper crumbles. Nitrate stock burns. Tapes are erased.

      The nerd scans last month's comic books. Not the dusty old books, magazines and ledgers to be found in his grandfather's attic.

      Private papers - private libraries - can remain private. The expiration of copyright doesn't give you physical access to anything.

    77. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by westlake · · Score: 1

      People have been writing good music for fun (and for free) throughout history, just so that people can enjoy it.

      It's just as likely that were doing it to for a coin or two, a bite to eat, and a good night's sleep.

      Particularly as they grew older.

      Why do you think The Iliad and The Odyssey are traditionally attributed to the blind poet, Homer?

    78. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by brit74 · · Score: 1

      Piracy is awesome and great because copyright no longer serves to "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Or do you really think the Berne Convention's life + 50 minimum accomplishes that goal? ... More likely, you'll be dead and your children might see it fall into the public domain.

      I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around your argument. You seem to be assuming that the "Progress of Science and useful Arts" only occurs when copyrighted material falls out of copyright and becomes public domain. I don't think that's true at all. Even if we had infinite copyright lengths, you can make a good case that the existence of copyright has promoted the "Progress of Science and useful Arts". Sure, it might be more useful to society if it did fall out of copyright after a shorter period of time, and copyright lengths do seem excessive. But, the mere fact that copyright lasts for a long time does not allow anyone to conclude that it isn't useful for the promotion of the arts. I think the only way to argue that I'm wrong is to say that copyrighted material has never helped anyone while under copyright. For example, you'd have to argue that the Beetle's "Imagine" is worthless and every copyrighted software program out there is worthless - even though it saved you time, money, or entertained you - it's worthless if you have to drop a few bucks.

    79. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by polymath69 · · Score: 1

      If only the Grateful Dead had thought of such a thing forty years ago, who knows what they might have gone on to achieve ...

      --

      --
      I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
    80. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about concerts?
      For example my brother has never bought a CD probably, but he goes to concerts of musicians he enjoys every time he has an opportunity

    81. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by brit74 · · Score: 1

      What I REALLY REALLY LOVE?

      All the Spice girls and Brittany spears of this world will burn the quickest. No more bullshit bands manufactured, spliced and merged together for a 'formula' that will make [money/music]. The smaller bands will make more money from gigs and merchandise from the fans that actually support them. The local bands will get more notice and the record industry will become a small advertising house.

      I don't understand your argument at all. If all musicians are suddenly thrust into the much harsher economic situation of getting paid for their concerts, but not getting paid for their music, it seems that the manufactured bands will be in the *best* position to survive. Afterall, if money is drained out of the music industry, the industry is going cut everyone except the big-earning, sure-bets. The era of free-piracy is an era of lots and lots of formulaic music.

    82. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by cnvandev · · Score: 1

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising and promotion.

      [citation needed]

      Honestly, I hate the elitist attitude of people who don't like pop music. Some people really, honestly like Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, whatever overproduced musical group happens to come along. Go to any average club night or party and tell me if you don't see the crowd go absolutely crazy when "Wannabe" comes on. Not (necessarily) because it's been overhyped, but because people actually like it. The attitude that we're in the middle of a paradigm shift and that we're about to enter music's Age of Aquarius is wrong every time. Things will change, but music you don't like won't just go away.

    83. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's worth noting that produced pop is really quite hard to make.

      Not that it is to everyone's taste, but try and make a song (and recording!) of the same poptastic quality of something like britteny's 'toxic' and you will see what I mean. That song is weapons grade pop, and there is little I have heard outside the industry of the same standard.

      One of the main reasons the small labels don't compete in the teen market is because they can't compete!

    84. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You're not the first to get all snotty about that.
      What's funny is you think I don't like big acts.
      Did I say that? Nope.
      But your faux populist attitude made you believe it.

      All I said is that lots of other artists will have an opportunity that they are denied now because the big acts will no longer have the advertising support to dominate the market. So what if people choose "whatever overproduced musical group happens to come along" - at least there will be a lot more of them coming along to chose from.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    85. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      The billions of dollars that they make back.

      You seem unclear on the concept - those billions are proof that the advertising works, if it wasn't necessary no one would spend the money on promotion in the first place. Your basis is contrary to your belief.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    86. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by JDeane · · Score: 1

      I believe the sayings "A fool and his money are soon parted" or "There is a sucker born every minute and two to take him" pretty much covers that.

    87. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      The definition of what something is worth is what someone else will pay

      The worth is at least what someone is willing to pay. (assuming no deception or fraud is involved). It is an important difference, which is the whole point of supply and demand.

      Also note that consumers and businesses act in completely different ways concerning worth and willingness to pay. Most of what you learn in school deals with businesses, but completely leaves out the economy of consumers. A business is just interested in making profitable transactions, and as such they fit perfectly within the traditional supply & demand theories.

      Consumers on the other hand are different. They won't buy something just because it is worth more than it costs, because they don't aim to make profit with what they buy. The aim to consume it. This leads to a market where there is huge difference between value and cost.

    88. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      We'd better keep Lady Gaga, Nickelback, and Kings of Leon alive as long as possible, if that's the case. We don't want that nonsense to be free any sooner than it needs to be.

    89. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      If you find the price steep that simply means that N * G people** in your area value tickets more than you do.

      That interpretation doesn't really work, because it assumes everyone has the same amount of money in their budget.

      As an example, Bill Gates can afford to spend $1,000,000 a year on super-deluxe fruit-flavored toilet paper. I, on the other hand, couldn't come up with a million dollars even to save my life. Does this mean that Bill Gates values fruit-flavored toilet paper more than I value my life? No -- it means that when you have more money, the expenditure of a certain dollar amount is less of a problem for you than it would be if you had less money.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    90. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      But what is the point of all this progress when no one but the rich can afford all of it. Because that is the result of copyright and patents. Higher prices and less efficient production. We may get a greater selection, but we can't afford to actually use it.

      Talk about a bad deal for the average consumer.

    91. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Ah but if it was 'free', with nobody making money off pushing it, then the music will have to survive on its own merits. People will listen to it because/if they want to, not because its being marketed to them.

    92. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are the one that is wrong.

      He wrote

      anything created in your lifetime

      Which means, if another person created something and died immediately, you would still have to wait 70 years to see it go into public domain.

    93. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by shentino · · Score: 1

      42

    94. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that piracy is vital to the health of music. People interested in many areas of music have no reasonable way of obtaining recordings at all even when willing to pay. For example how much Dixieland Jazz can be found in music stores in most towns and cities? The net and piracy make listening to some music a reality for millions of people.

    95. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VNV Nation rocks. I found them through their music posted on Youtube.

    96. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free.

      I DEFINITELY call Bull on this assertion.

      The equipment to make music, esp. electronic music, has gotten astronomically less expensive over the last several decades. A PC with the multimedia muscle to produce high quality music, comparable in power to the most expensive studio electronic instruments of two decades ago, is the kind of gear you can get by dumpster diving or going to school-auctions. I went to a University Auction a few months ago and got a Roland U-200 synthethiser ("Sound Module" for $15. An ESI 32-voice digital sampler for another $20. That was quite expensive rack-mount MIDI gear not very long ago.

      Multi-track recording equipment amounts to a high-end sound card for a few hundred dollars.

      It's all gotten cheaper, to the point where The Big Studios really can't justify themselves as anything more than big powerhouses of Hype whose only real function is promotion of a product that regular people can easily make for themselves now. All they 'own' is the channels, and there's no reason for us to respect that any longer. Sorry. Game over.

    97. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A couple of my favorite bands (Shellac, the Jesus Lizard, the New Year, Fugazi) are indeed "part time hobbies." Steve Albini from Shellac discussed this topic. In an another interview, they described that a week of Shellac takes months.

      The amount of time invested and quality is a correlation, not a causation. Not all bands accomplish 100% quality in the same amount of time. For one, I have enjoyed the records released by the bands I've mentioned. I attended Shellac and the Jesus Lizard concerts recently and they were great, so this is evidence to me. Not mention Shellac (who comes from Chicago) toured in the U.K., Iceland, continental Europe (including the Balkans), South America, Japan, and Turkey. Lots of "part time bands" do this, though there is no denying that it is expensive.

      More often than not, bands investing far too much of their time touring and recording hurts the band. Black Flag is the best example of this. First records and the footage in "Decline of Western Civilization" were superb. They were one of the hardest working and touring bands in the '80s as far as I know, but eventually they couldn't stand each and started to release music of poorer quality. Even during their early years, Black Flag was falling apart from constant touring. Enthusiasm gets replaced by routine and you can see why a lot of people say "well, I like their earlier stuff."

      The amount of time invested is not an indicator of quality or dedication. Bands should just be aware how time should they invest to produce worthwhile music. Some bands and artists cannot work in a small amount of time (amount here is relative to the band). If they need years to make great music, then I'll be glad as fan. Remember, there is a lot of music out there.

    98. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Now, remember we are in a third world country, .....

      Are you really Brazilian?

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    99. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Afterall, if money is drained out of the music industry, the industry is going cut everyone except the big-earning, sure-bets.

      Actually, the 'music industry' per se, DIES. Yes, it ceases to exist. Because for the most part all it's in the business of doing is trapping music into packaging that they control, so that people who want said music can't get it without paying them. Why do we need all the wrapping and layers of nonsense?

      Yes, yes. We've heard the explanations before of what a 'value add' the music industry provides. Please don't regurgitate it here.

    100. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      That's funny, I didn't even have the RIAA that much in mind when I said this. You think piracy only hurts bands under major (i.e., RIAA) labels? Get real.

      And being a millionaire? Again, get real. I was specifically talking about bands with more moderate visibility, and they sure as hell aren't living high on the hog. A lot of the really good music falls into this area, the sort-of indie music area where artists tend to avoid selling out to major labels that compromise their vision.

      I'm not arguing for stronger copyright laws. I don't really believe in intellectual property, actually. My point here is that people keep on pretending that piracy is either good or only puts a dent in artists' sales. It's not.

      Does the business models of artists have to change? Maybe. But again, making music--quality music--is a time-consuming effort. If people don't support the artists--and most people, given the free piracy option, do not--then we'll have a lot more generic techno and a lot less creativity (maybe I exaggerate, but still...).

    101. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Oh great, another open source analogy. Come back to me when even a smidgen of music is actually produced in an open-source fashion, and then we can talk.

      Also note that your argument isn't even analogous to mine. People make free music too. No problem with that. But people that work on free software often do it as a hobby, while I was addressing, to follow your flawed analogy, those that work on closed-source software to make an honest buck. And there's nothing wrong with closed-source software, no matter how many times Richard Stallman pounds his fist. My point here is simply that piracy will hurt these independent programmers, or to revert back to my argument, more independent musicians.

    102. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How is me arguing that piracy isn't all kittens and a field of flowers related to copyright length? Sure it's ridiculous, but again, let's face it, downloading mp3s for free on the internet is going to hurt artists.

      I actually don't believe in intellectual property because it's not a scarce resource. But I also recognize that artists need to eat, and for most artists the job is far less about money and more about individual creativity. They gotta eat so if I find something I'll like, I'll buy the CD, directly from them if able.

      I'm not the first slashdotter to say this by any means, but many of those that do this don't want to admit that that behavior is probably what the minority of file sharers do. Again, look at what I'm responding too--someone claiming that piracy is great. Downloading without giving the artist a dime is not really a "great thing" at all, in my opinion. An inevitability in today's world, yes. The problem is mostly that it's cultivating the mentality that artists don't need to get paid, and many people don't think twice about actually buying a physical CD just to support the artist like I personally think they should.

      So yeah, pirate, but don't pretend it's a "good thing" unless you really do plan on buying it if you like it.

    103. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Precisely.

    104. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Maybe, and I completely understand your points, however, I kind of doubt the first thing you'd tell Ronan Harris in a conversation is that you only pirate his music.

    105. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      A problem with pop music is that people only seem to like the most overhyped stuff without bothering to search for something less... overmarketed.

    106. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I never said music can't happen. I merely said that it does hurt artists. Slashdotters keep on emphasizing the perceived "good" for free music but don't want to emphasis how it does hurt artists (and it does). Again, the RIAA's points are overblown but that doesn't make them necessarily completely wrong.

    107. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      so? If I dont know you I wont be bothered that I cant see you..

      Still plenty of bands to see this side of the pond.

      BTW, if you make good music and its not available through the large chains... I'll buy it, but it still has to be worth it to do so and 'filler' content is NOT.

    108. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      who said it was free?

    109. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      Glad to hear you like them :)

      Victory Not Vengeance.

      Furthest Star
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bedj1qC_jwg
      Beloved
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7RlKe5LLPo
      Standing
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0czbHs6a7y4

      better versions of beloved (grey down rmx) and standing (still, motion and original) exist but you should check these tracks out :)

    110. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Eil · · Score: 1

      If a child ever says, "when I grow up I'm going to be a musician", we need to tell them - no you're not. Being a musician is a hobby that you do in your spare time.

      This is generally the correct answer regardless of legal or economic structure. There are millions of individuals with artistic aspirations but only a small minority with the talent and ability to make a full-time job of it. The problem with our current copyright laws (and most of the proposed replacements) is that they produce a system which encourages mediocrity. There's no room in it for the folks who are genuinely talented yet lack industry connections. They don't have the means to promote themselves. Even when they give their work away for free, they are barely noticed because consumers have been conditioned to believe that "downloading an MP3 from the Internet" is the same thing as "stealing a bike from a garage."

    111. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why is this insightful?

      disc space is cheap nowadays, and lossless formats ubiquitous, so there is no good reason to keep using mp3.

      perhaps it's really just a way for the record companies to ensure that the punters only get to keep a low quality version of the recording, so they can start a new format war....

    112. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or it's proof that people genuinely like the music. I am sure that some people did buy music just because it was heavily marketed but I am also sure that an equally large number bought the same music because it was something they enjoyed. You seem to not understand that just because something is heavily advertised doesn't mean that people can't really like it.

    113. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The definition of what something is worth is what someone else will pay" That may be your definition of the word but that is not "the definition of the word". A clear example of this is something pritty much everyone can relate to. Buying an item only to realize that its crap and that you wasted your money. You tout your deffinition of capitalism in such a way to prove that you are in fact compleatly full of shit and have no clue what your talking about. The price somone pays is how much its worth if there is perfect information and a whole ass load of other requirements..... which no econmist with any training would ever argue holds true in the real world. So in short your a dip shit please stop misinforming the rest of the world

    114. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by bigngamer92 · · Score: 1

      Can we vote out Sports stars too? I'm pretty sure Football was supposed to be a hobby.

    115. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You seem to not understand that just because something is heavily advertised doesn't mean that people can't really like it.

      Oh get real. Do you really think my point is that advertising makes people buy stuff they dislike?
      Address the point, don't make up bullshit strawmen.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    116. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by onallama · · Score: 1

      No it wasn't. Reread: "In the USA, life + 70 literally means that, at best, anything created in your lifetime will not become public domain until you are 70." In other words if Lady Gaga released a new CD today, and a baby was born today, and Gaga died in a horrible accident later tonight, her CD would not become public domain until the baby was a 70-year-old man. That's best case.

      True -- I was focusing on the "anything created in your lifetime" part of the statement, and missed what was intended by "at best". Oh well...

    117. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 1

      Making software--good software--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and tools and computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the software you're essentially losing money, in most situations.

      and that's why we will never, ever, ever see any sort of free software movement. Without monetary incentives, people just wont create anything. no music, no software, nothing....

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    118. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't there an article here recently that disproves what you just said?

      http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/10/19/176209/13-of-People-Cant-Tell-48Kbps-Audio-From-160Kbps?from=rss

      Ahhh... there we go.

    119. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by wgoodman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually I would have gone with a funny mod vs insightful.. I believe he was referencing this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/4309/

    120. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You never had a point, just an excuse. Nevertheless, that was exactly what you were saying just a couple of posts back, so you're going to have to back-pedal harder than that.

    121. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radiohead? You mean that band that had a couple of hits (including a Billboard #1) with songs they outright stole from guys like yourself who did it as a part time hobby? Sounds like the kind of band I'd like to see raking in money for 100 years.

      As for quantity over quality, I think you've got it completely backwards.
      Take a look at the current situation in the recording industry. People who have 1 creative thought worthy of mass appeal are locked into 3, 4 or 5 album contracts and are forced by lawyers to put out an additional 30+ songs so the record company can profit from it. The rest of us have the music forced on us.
      I imagine if these artists only released the 1 creative album, then the record company would have more money to go around for 3 or 4 additional artists with something creative to add that's worth listening to.
      There's a reason most bands' first album is the best one. I can't count how many times I've heard (or said) "Meh, it's not as good as their first album."

    122. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing is, people don't torrent Beyonce to protest the copyright status of Richard Strauss. They just want free stuff. If the duration of copyright were revised drastically downward, people would still pirate the most current music. I'm not defending life+70 - it's patently insane (ha ha) - but let's not pretend it has any bearing on this issue.

      But that's the crux of the issue: copyright is effectively meaningless to most people.

      Whatever rights the artist may claim, the majority don't recognise them. If they felt some duty to pay, they would do so. But they don't. Nor do they feel that what they are doing is wrong, in spite of being told so. Sharing music appeals to the same part of human nature that gossip does - it's sharing of interesting information in order to solidify or improve one's status in a given group. It's an activity that's always been done freely, with no thought of (direct) recompense.

      The whole issue of so-called piracy is based on what, to most people, is a non-sequitur: 'The artist deserves to be rewarded for their work, therefore every one of you who listens to me has to pay.' The second statement simply doesn't follow from the first assertion. Worse, the question of who gets paid (and how much) quickly becomes a morass that's interesting only to those involved.

      For most people, their debt to the artist is measured in goodwill and little more. Sometimes that goodwill translates into an album purchase, a concert ticket and maybe a t-shirt, but that's incidental. One brilliant example: Bruce Springsteen walks by a busker singing one of his songs, decides to join in. Everyone is treated to a live performance. And nobody puts a penny in the hat. Not even Bruce.

      I think ultimately that the entire framework of 'droits d'auteur' (author's rights) will have to be re-conceived before a renewal of the social contract between artist and audience can be considered.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    123. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree, Britney isn't successful because some secret cabal made it so

      You're correct, the cabal responsible doesn't operate in secrecy. Clearchannel Broadcasting and something called "Heavy Rotation" made her popular. Along with her video being one of only 10 videos shown in any 24 hour period on the only TV channel that dared to called itself Music Television. Meanwhile that same show called itself a request show, but only if you requested what they allowed. The entire concept is laughable.
      Combine all of this with the fact that they paraded that tramp around in miniskirts at the age of 15 just for the additional attention.

      As for people buying her records, I wouldn't be surprised if the record company bought the first million or so just to generate some buzz. It's not like that's never happened before.
      Lastly, the only desires she filled were washed away with pictures of a club foot and c-section scars as she did her "whoopsie" and showed off those ravaged meatfolds of hers. The illusion of desire ended there.

    124. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Sirusjr · · Score: 1

      You hit the nail on the head. If most of my favorite albums are from another country and the only way to buy them is to pay outrageous import prices, I won't buy the music although I certainly won't stop listening to it. A friend of mine contacted a Japanese publisher who has essentially released all the soundtracks composed by Masamichi Amano saying that he wanted to buy every single album they have ever released by him. The answer from the label was pretty much "sorry go away we don't ship outside of Japan". I find that it is much more worth my time and effort to support the bands whose CDs I can purchase for a reasonable price of $10-$15 a disc and anything else I have to listen to fully before I decide to take the plunge. I don't see it as practical to purchase a Japanese Pop album for $35 or so unless I know for sure I really like the stuff.

    125. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by definate · · Score: 1

      If you're going to make this argument, please use words precisely. What you mean when you say ""buy" is actually "donate"" you're wrong. There is a transaction of one good for another. This is buying or selling.

      Especially when you consider that most of these generate their income through up selling or similar. For a reference, please refer to the various business model's used by everyone who has offered their music for free. There is always something more.

      "This isn't necessarily a bad model - as you point out, it has worked before. But it resulted in a stifling and uninnovative musical environment" please cite your source for this. Also please consider that the world has not been as prosperous as it is today, and as such could not support a "musical environment" as much as we can today.

      "If a child ever says, "when I grow up I'm going to be a musician", we need to tell them - no you're not. Being a musician is a hobby that you do in your spare time.", you don't hang around with many musicians do you? Well my parents are in bands, their friends are, their friends friends, and so on. All in all, I know far too many musicians, from writers, to performers, to producers and managers. They perform original works to covers. Even 20-30 years ago, "Being a musician is a hobby that you do in your spare time". This hasn't changed. Although some of the musicians I know have seen varying success, every single one performs in a 'pay to play' way. They spend more money, than they make, yet they keep on performing for 10s of years. Every one of them has a real job and their fun job. Just like programmers who program for no money, but for the fun of creation.

      Why do they keep performing? Because of the intangibles, they benefit from making and performing. They love it. Regardless of the money.

      "For instance, if that child says "oh well. in that case I want to make video games!" - same thing. No you're not. You will get a job where you are paid per hour of your labor like the rest of the world." seriously it's like you don't know anyone in the industries you're talking about. I attempted to get into this industry, starting from a young age, making simple games, to eventually using other peoples engines, and I've several friends who had varying success, though. This is the current state of the industry. However, we keep making games. Why? Because we love to!

      "Ditto for movies, books .... who knows what else in future." this is a joke.

      I think you are only exposed to the 1 in a million who make it. You don't seem to realize that, people are not only driven by economic incentives. There is more to people than that, and we're not purely rational. These works will be produced, especially if we have the comfort we do these days, which allows us to spend this time.

      I do concur that we should be consistent and wipe out any copyright (and yes I know the repercussions, I'm an economist these days). These are positive consumption externalities, and they are great, because we can reach the quantity produced at the intersection of Marginal Private Cost and Marginal Social Benefit through price discrimination, without imposing any extra costs on the producer. It's a marvelous thing that we should embrace, as it only makes our economies more efficient and more prosperous.

      And that is why I think you don't know the topic you're talking about.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    126. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by definate · · Score: 1

      Since you know "basic economics" it's a worry that you've assumed that these economic actors are entirely rational and that their subjective demand schedule consists of only "revenue" and has no intangible component. This means that people who invest in these sorts of investments can do so, at a accounting loss (but economic profit or at least normal profit), and still be happy.

      I'm pretty sure they teach that in intro micro.

      But the rest of your modeling is sound, and you're right, we don't have to worry that without copyright acting will die. It won't, because of those intangibles and because it is valuable.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    127. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      I want to know where this idea has come from that making music should make you a millionaire [. . .] somewhere in the 20th century came the concept that every single mediocre pop act should earn 6 figure sums

      I want to know where this idea that people like you can reframe the debate in frankly ridiculous terms without getting called on it has come from.

      Nobody has said that every single mediocre pop act should earn six figure sums. At least not until you came around and claimed it was said as if that somehow makes it fact. What people who do not support piracy are saying is very simple: You do not have a right--in fact, it is morally wrong--to take something which is being sold without providing compensation for it. That you're not entitled to somebody else's creation just for being born into a family with an Internet connection. If those people paying for mediocre pop act albums make them six-figure sums, so be it. Maybe they're not as mediocre as you claim.

      Can artists give away their music? Absolutely. Should they make their money from concerts and merchandise instead of albums sales? There's a fair degree of sense to it. Is it up to you to decide for them? No.

      And somehow, despite this lack of monetary incentive, magnificent music still got made. Musicians made music because it was what they loved to do, and the music scene was a lot better for it.

      So you (and presumably others) pirate music to help the progress of the field of music? I wonder if you really believe that or if it's just what you say to rationalize a behavior you've decided long-ago you were going to do.

      There are a lot of things wrong with the music industry, some of which are solved, some of which are being worked on and some of which are frankly getting ignored. Copyright terms are too long and penalties disproportionately stiff. A cartel of labels fixes the price of CDs. Outside of a few hits, most of an artists' music is filler trash. Prices are too high for a product for which costs continue to trend down. The labels and artists are too slow to react to changing technologies, choosing to label them evil and obstruct them instead of embracing them as opportunities. And many, many more.

      It still doesn't make piracy somehow right. It doesn't mean that you can choose to reject their price and still take their product, much less that you can walk away feeling morally superior after having done it.

      It's not about whether or not music can still happen. It's about whether or not you have the right to unilaterally dictate terms to the creator that they have to meet; that failure to do so somehow entitles you to their work for free.

      Pirate or don't pirate, I don't particularly care. Just stop couching it in this faux-morality nonsense.

    128. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      This isn't necessarily a bad model - as you point out, it has worked before. But it resulted in a stifling and uninnovative musical environment (good for religious folks though).

      Back when most people would never have heard anything by Mozart since they were nowhere near a concert hall and you needed an orchestra to play it live and the orchestra would have to do it without microphones and amplifiers?

      Let's try that again with the record once, seek donations from a few billion potential online customers everywhere model. I think a few things have changed since the times you talked about.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    129. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      If you care so much about constitutionality, then you should be comforted in knowing that the body we have determined has the final authority to decide such matters has declared that life + 70 is fully constitutional and thus fully legal. (In fact if you care so much about constitutionality you should recognize that the ability to declare things unconstitutional is itself unconstitutional and that the judiciary is a mouthpiece fully devoid of any power, but that is neither here nor there.)

      More likely, you're just making shit up that sounds good to justify your position.

      I happen to think the copyright terms in effect today are an abomination. I think they should absolutely be changed. But I'm not going to play Master of the Universe and assume that it means my opinions about it should somehow matter more than the United States Supreme Court, in which we have entrusted the power to make those determinations. I am hopeful that, given the close nature of the decision upholding the latest extension to copyright terms, the decision will be overturned in the near future--but I will not claim it is illegal in the present when it has already been ruled to be legal. To do so would be nothing but hyperbole.

      If you really want to punish this "greater crime," if you really believe that piracy is some noble act of rebellion against a bad law, then judging by the piracy rates you should have tremendous support. Go oust the politicians who voted for it. Install ones sympathic to your positions. Such is the nature of our Republic.

      The OP is correct; pirates do it because they want free stuff. The rest is tangential at best, regardless of how valid or invalid it may ultimately be.

    130. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      you forgot the last part let me finish that equation for you

        - inflated prices, which leads to piracy and that = time for a revolution :D

    131. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      no - it just needs to have tits and santily clad young girls in it...

      that crap is a universal excuse to push soft core porn without crossing the lines of the law..

      It is NOT the music that sells.

    132. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      I'd probably be quite happy to tell him that... the record company not so much.

      I wonder how much per cd he actually gets? 5% max?

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=pd_lpo_ix_dp_am_us_uk_en_vnv.020faith.020power.020and.020glory_gl_music?keywords=vnv%20faith%20power%20and%20glory&tag=lpo_ixdpamusukenvnv.020faith.020power.020and.020glorygl_music-21&index=blended

      I can buy the newest album digital download for £6.99

      Lets say I paid that for all 7 albums = £48.93
      Or I could just land £100 + ticket price for the t-shirts, gig etc

      I know which I'd rather have, and I bet the venue money goes through fewer hands.

    133. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in essence, your father is listening to music MORE than you do. You are simply skimming over music, maybe hearing a song once every few months. Your father is hearing maybe the same song several times a day - that means he will get to know the music better than you. When you listen to something over and over, you can become a master of that music. When you only listen to something once every few months, you are a master listener of no music.

      In essence, if music is background music, then it doesn't matter much who or what you are listening to - it's empty listening that simply passes over you. But if music has content that can be digested with repeated listening, by a lot of people, then there is value in that music. That'll be the drunk guy in the bar trying to fight you, because you have no idea of his level of understanding of some particular piece of music which probably he's found meaning with, and can't begin to get you to understand what he sees, because you are a clueless, passive listener.

    134. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by brit74 · · Score: 1

      But what is the point of all this progress when no one but the rich can afford all of it. Because that is the result of copyright and patents. Higher prices and less efficient production. We may get a greater selection, but we can't afford to actually use it. We may get a greater selection, but we can't afford to actually use it.

      Most copyrighted material is not something that only the rich can afford. I can buy albums off of iTunes for $10. I don't think that qualifies me as rich. Not to mention the other things game companies have been doing - like Valve's recent "buy Team Fortess 2 for $2.49" sale or World of Goo's "pay what you want" sale. All of this is done under copyright. It's hard for me to think you're being objective when you claim that copyrighted material is outside the price-range of most people.

      The only copyrighted material that is out of the price range of most people in developed countries is software designed for businesses -- and that allows businesses to earn more money, so it's only reasonable that a company that earns $100,000 worth of value from it pays a few hundred or a few thousands of dollars for it.

    135. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope.

    136. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Fael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You make some compelling arguments, and I agree with a lot of what you say - to a point. However, my feeling is that you are wrong on one crucial point: I don't think that the overwhelming majority of people who pirate music do so because they don't believe that artists are entitled to any sort of compensatory rights for what they do (forgive me if I'm misstating your point: I'm inferring that from "Whatever rights the artist may claim, the majority don't recognise them.") I think that filesharing has simply become the path of least resistance: it's convenient, and free, and the assumption is made that other people will buy the record and support the artist. I think it's much like citizens who don't bother to vote: while there is undoubtedly a small core of people who believe that voting is meaningless and that the democratic system is inherently flawed, most nonvoters essentially believe in the system, but are content to rely on the participation of others. You find this statement unreasonable: "The artist deserves to be rewarded for their work, therefore every single one of you who listens to me has to pay." To be honest, I don't find anything particularly high-minded in the converse: "The artist deserves to be rewarded for their work, therefore someone else should pay."

      I agree with you that the current interface between artists and audience is far from ideal. One thing I find interesting about your position, however, is the notion that there should not necessarily be any kind of correlation between the number of people who enjoy an artist's music and the degree to which that artist should be financially compensated. I'm just curious: do you feel the same way about sports stars (for example)? My perception (which may be skewed, I admit) is that whereas most members of society - in or out of the arts and entertainment community - who affect the lives of large numbers of people would be expected to make a correspondingly large amount of money, there seems to be growing sentiment that musicians should be held to a different type of standard altogether.

    137. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First: It's a common mistake to think that piracy steals from the artist. The artists make next to nothing from album sales. They make their earnings on touring and merchandising.

      "You do not have a right--in fact, it is morally wrong--to take something which is being sold without providing compensation for it."

      Ugh. Where to begin... Morality is relative to the society. Our current one seems to see no problem with downloading things on the internet, unless you're in the ultra tiny minority (a rock star, movie star, or record/movie executive) or simple minded enough to believe the rhetoric spewed by those tiny minority who also somehow have the majority say in the matter.

      Face it:
      Nothing's being sold. It's being given away on the internet. "Pirate" buys or is given a CD and decides to give it away for free on the internet. It's his, after all.
      From there, the manufacturing and production of the copies was a process that was automated and required no effort from the artist or record company. Therefor, they don't deserve to be paid for it. The "pirate" who took the time and money (paying for the computer, paying for the internet connection) to rip and upload the original copy of a torrent is providing a service to everyone and doing it at no cost to the artist, or the record company.
      If the artists and record company want to argue all day long about the costs to manufacture and distribute the music and say they need to recoup their costs, in order to justify their exorbitant charges, then they should be thanking the individuals for ripping (manufacturing copies) and seeding (distributing the cds) for the record company free of charge.
      You can't have it both ways.
      The advocates for the artists also like to talk about how their creation and time is so valuable. If these artists truly believe their 1 hit song is worth 100 million dollars, make 1 copy and sell it for 100 million dollars. It's that simple. To do anything else is just bullshitting everyone, and people will get sick of the smell of shit after long enough.

      If I walked into a CD store and I took a physical copy of the cd, I'd be taking something that's for sale and taking money out of the pocket of someone who paid to have it. We are agreed there. I'm robbing the shopkeeper.

      If I walk past the same CD store, and a guy on the corner has a table full of free copies of the CD (indistinguishable from the ones being sold inside the store) to anyone and everyone who walks by, am I supposed to stop and question who gave him the authority to hand those out?
      Am I supposed to refuse a copy thinking that he stole all those copies from inside the store?
      Am I supposed to assume he bought one copy, then reproduced it a bunch of times, or should I assume he's being payed to put it out there for consumers to consume and generate hype?

      Any one scenario is equally as likely as another. In the end, if everyone else walking by is getting a copy from this guy... you, me and everyone we know will probably shrug it off and take a copy of the CD off the table as we walk by, simply because it's there and it's free.

      If you don't believe me, ask the ladies in the supermarket who sit there for 8 hours handing out cocktail franks or trail mix samples all day long. Or go hang out in a mall food court for 20 minutes and count how many people are eating the free samples there.

      In both cases, these masses never wanted these free things, and in some cases didn't like them either... yet they took and consumed them anyway.

    138. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worst case is Gaga might live to be 120

      You got that right!

    139. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by grcumb · · Score: 1

      I agree with you that the current interface between artists and audience is far from ideal. One thing I find interesting about your position, however, is the notion that there should not necessarily be any kind of correlation between the number of people who enjoy an artist's music and the degree to which that artist should be financially compensated. I'm just curious: do you feel the same way about sports stars (for example)?

      Artists live very much at the mercy of the elements. Throughout history, there is little correlation between wealth, popularity and achievement. In fact, many of the richest artists were actually better at being popular than being good artists. Many of the best artists were better at being artists than being popular.

      It stands to reason, therefore, that creative and remunerative processes are not strongly linked. Therefore, there's little reason to get one's shorts in a knot if they don't follow similar lines on a graph.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    140. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, for that matter, neither does the so-called Apple Lossless format, as delivered by their devices.

      If a lossless audio format isn't good enough for you there really isn't much left you can do...

    141. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Fael · · Score: 1

      That is true, but nowhere have I equated popularity with talent, nor have I stated (or implied) that I believe the "greatest" artists should also be the most well-paid. My question was: if you believe that musicians should not be paid relative to the number of people who enjoy their music (i.e. the popularity - not "quality" of said music), do you likewise believe that other members of society should not be paid relative to the popularity of their services or products?

    142. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then perhaps copyright should be done away with completely and congress should find a way to encourage arts and contributions to culture without making the natural and intended use of current technology illegal.

    143. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      You never had a point, just an excuse.

      Ah, the arrogance of the ignorant.

      Nevertheless, that was exactly what you were saying

      No, it was not even close to what I was saying - in fact you didn't even say that in the post I responded to.
      But then all you've got is an axe to grind so you can't see farther than your own projected prejudices.
      Enjoy your strawman, its all you've got.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    144. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      As a musician, I agree, sort of, only because anything under 256k isn't worth paying for and the industry acts like they're "perfect" copies.

      The only problem is that there are now so many independent voices trying to be heard that it's really difficult to find the good ones. Then again, if anything out there was actually thrilling people, it should become popular anyway. The tweens are even revolting, railing against Miley Cyrus as the current "worst influence."

      The majors have a few thousand acts, but their failure rate is up to 98.5 percent now; independent acts are releasing 10 times as much product into the marketplace, but most indie CDs are lucky to sell more than 10 copies. The gatekeepers are now almost totally incapable of recognizing what anyone wants, which they used to be able to do quite well before the emphasis went to money before music.

      People think they're hurting the RIAA by sharing their music, but it's the only thing that is keeping them alive.

    145. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Clairvoyant · · Score: 1

      This is all nice and well if you assume that CDs are the only source of income. Now, the record companies like people to think that the artists only income is from CDs and that we should keep buying CDs otherwise the industry will die.

      Let's, for a moment, assume that music IS actually a healthy industry (one where there are (runnnig/development) costs and money is to be made legally) then piracy can be seen as a healthy competition, all though illegal in most countries. Record companies have a monopoly on their artists. If you want Michael Jackson, you'd have to pay Sony. You have no choice other than NOT to buy Michael Jackson's music. And as popular artists (the ones the parent claims are "hit the most") get more general interest, they sell more of it and are broadcast on the radio ,pre frequently which again boosts sales. Sales to which no competitor can compete, as all Michael Jackson's CDs are from Sony. I'm not going into the theories that record companies force radio stations to play more music from other (more unknown) artists from the record company's repertoire. I do think, judging from their Mafia approach to their competitor (piracy), this is a sound assumption.

      One other thing is adjusting your company and strategies to the market. When the NY harbour did not adjust to the new sized containers (because otherwise a big group of people would be out of work, because less employees were needed), they were overtaken by a nearby harbour... why? Because they DID adjust. That's what happens in a moving market. Now the music (and film) industries do not do this. Why not? Because competitors can not start selling their artists without having to go through the record company that also sells the CDs. New artists can do this, but this takes time (and is much less affective). I for one would LOVE to pay for good music. I listen to FLACs because I live in 2009 (soon to be 2010) and not in the eighties anymore. So, where can I buy, high res (again; we're not living in the eighties; enough with the 16/44.1 already!) recordings? Sure there's Linn Records and the like, of which I've bought quite a few albums. But where can I buy my high-res Michael Jackson albums? Oh.... I CAN'T! Because the record companies have frozen the progression of their market for decades! And now everyone's pissed off, technology has advanced to a point the record companies have lost it (quoting Sony: "All the Internet has brought us was bad stuff, like Piracy". Friggin fossils!). So let them go belly-up! Let them, for once, feel what happens if you don't progress. I'd love to lend a hand :)

    146. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by ztransform · · Score: 1

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free.

      I find this an extremely offensive argument for branding individuals as criminals for downloading music.

      First, I have a day job. With this day job I bought Cakewalk Sonar (GBP 299) and a Roland Fantom G8 (GBP 2600). Now with my weekends and weeknights I can record and produce music.

      Meanwhile the recording industry is pushing music on people for free through the radio, much like a drug dealer would push the first "hit" for free. Then when people demand to hear that song again (like a druggie wants another hit) the industry demands payment. That's social manipulation.

      If artists want money for something they love let them do what the great majority in society is expected to do - get a day job. If you truly love your art you will find time and resources to produce it.

    147. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by KrimZon · · Score: 1

      The income from a service should ideally be proportional to how good it is. The income from a good should ideally be proportional to how good it is. The income from a work of art should ideally be proportional to how good it is. This would encourage people who want more money to provide better service, make better goods and create better art.

      The way I see it though, a more popular artist would likely attract the attention of more people prepared to pay, so there would be some kind of relation to popularity. But people being prepared to pay when they don't have to might make for a more substantial measure of quality than just popularity alone.

      I can also see art being made for the people who pay rather than marketed to children who would likely just take a free copy.

    148. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

      Who can remember the article about the guy who shipped donuts to companies, and left a tin to put the cash in, basically trusting people to do the right thing if they grabbed a donut?

      - I think it was about 90% of all people who were honest, 10% of people who weren't, and that's with a real product which you're really stealing.

      regarding music, if there wasn't this much negativity from the **AA, and people were left to their own in downloading what they like with no repercussions, a lot more people would buy what they like in support of good music.

      Personally I've long time ago stopped buying music as I feel it's wrong to reward this kind of behaviour from the **AA, and I've stopped browsing music as musicians today all have that same stigma to them, doing it for greed, and I have no interest in listening to what I associate with greed.

      Music is basically the manipulation of emotion. How can you possibly feel good listening to what you like, when every artist the last 50 years has the **AA stigma to it? Everytime I hear a song, no matter which one, I also feel the negative connection: "people are getting sued for listening to this because of greed"

    149. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free.

      If I had to wager I'd suggest the more popular the band, the more they're hurt, relatively, by piracy, with the completely unknowns actually benefiting because then they get exposure

      You are right and I agree 'Piracy' does hurt all artist to some degree as anytime you loose control of something it's going to. At the same time you need to keep in mind that most of the profit from CD sales never reached the artists to begin with and then they only got pennies of the $10 to $30 that is charged for a CD.

      Copyright was never meant to support an industry, instead it was an agreement between society and the 'artist' to allow them to make a living while insuring what they create enhances society after a 'brief' period of time. As such we no longer have copyright as it was designed. We have indefinite control of the arts given not to artist but to corporations which never die and never release these works to the public domain (society).

      The modern artist is going to have to work for a living just as most have always had to do. It was only a fraction of one percent that ever became so famous that they could kick back and do nothing all day because they wrote a few songs 30 years ago.

      If you're an artist the internet is a wonderful way to get your name and music out. Not just to a town, city, or even the country in which you live but to a world of over 6 billion people. These people will always desire to see you preform live shows and that is where an artist should be making the bulk of their money. But even having said that people still wanna by t-shirts and all the other stuff put out by bands they like so in reality not much has really changed for the negative. Control HAS been lost over the distribution of music but gaining world wide access should more than make up for it. And no not all of the 6 billion have the means to pay to see a live show but then those people never had the money to buy a CD in the first place so why does it mater?

      Now we can debate whether 'file sharing' is wrong, we can pass new laws, and even drag people to jail for it but none of that is going to change anything at this point. The Jin is out of the bottle and it's not going back. Not even if we turned the internet off completely as people are still going to share music, they always have and they always will..

    150. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by stridebird · · Score: 1

      But I digress: what I meant to say was that the readily-downloaded media are something of a trap. I think we are going to be left with a whole generation that has no idea what their music is actually supposed to sound like.

      this.

      in the whole process, the quality of reproduced music generally available to the public is falling fast. compressed tinny sounds produced by inadequate headphones and speakers. I think the quality peaked in the early 90's with widespread CDs and solid speakers. Since then all around me people just seem to accept having crap sound around them, almost like a security blanket they need sound, any sound. Audiophilia and general hi-fi appreciation is lost these days. It's the same with video on the web, yeah sure i can watch anything but it's crap - a compressed, jerky, artifact-ridden little box on my laptop screen. That's not TV. Or cinema.

    151. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by jecblackpepper · · Score: 1

      The 'deal' with copyright is that the government will spend our taxes protecting the monopoly that copyright gives an artist in return for the copyrighted material eventually entering the public domain to enrich the lives of its citizens.

      So yes new music is available for you to purchase right now at a price you're happy with, but what about in 10 years, or 20 years or 100 years? As an example, there are some great novels from the 70s and 80s that I would love to read, but the original publisher isn't printing them any more. If their copyright had expired then other publishers might be willing to sell them to me, or god forbid some kind person might scan and make the text available through project Gutenberg.

      A significant portion of our culture is being lost because it can't be copied legally and by the time its copyright has expired there are literally no copies left. That doesn't seem to fit the 'deal'.

    152. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by tepples · · Score: 1

      nor you can replace Romeo & Juliet with some local play written locally.

      I disagree. West Side Story is a local American play to replace the British Romeo and Juliet. But to answer your question more directly: If the owners of copyright in these artworks want to advance the condition of humans in Brazil, they'll have the works replicated in Brazil by a Brazilian firm in order to avoid import tariffs.

    153. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      First, stop using the misnomer "piracy". Copyright infringement is NOT armed robbery (or kidnapping) at sea. Tell the couple kidnapped from their yacht that downloading a song is the same as what is happening to them. Don't make light of what is happening off the coast of Somalia. Don't make sharing a song sound like something grave. Don't buy into the RIAA's attempt to make something seem worse than it is.

      "Making music--good music--takes time and resources."

      It's egocentric of you to assert there is such a thing as objectively good music. There's music you like, and music you don't. Those words you hear in your head aren't always facts. Sometimes they're just your own feelings and thoughts.

      As for taking resources... no one asked them to do that. If someone quits their day job to record an album, i don't owe them a penny. If someone offers you a cash advance to produce an album, great, then THEY own you money. Not me. i haven't commissioned a recording or performance of it. No one is paying me for my time on slashdot, fark or playing PlanetSide. i invested a great deal of time and money into PlanetSide, and yet... not a dime! No one is paying for recordings of me singing in the shower. Where's my royalty? Oh right... no one asked me to do any of those things. Maybe the problem isn't the filesharing, but the way the industry works....

      The Nerd Core Hip Hop scene is thriving without charging for music. i have hours and hours of legally free jams. The lack of payment doesn't seem to be stopping them. Jonathan Coulton makes a living selling tickets, merch and voluntary purchases of CDs. One site allows purchase of tracks and albums where the buyer sets the price. The site tells you how much goes to the artist, and what their slice is.

      Major label artists earn very little from the sale of CDs, so not buying them causes little harm to artists. The claim that Kid Rock is starving because we pull his stuff from BT is crap. It's "hurting" the stock holders and the executives a little. By harm i mean they could buy their daughter a only Lexus instead of a Mercedes for her birthday. i don't care about these execs or the stock holders at all. Maybe the problem isn't the filesharing, but how people think they should all get rich from it.

      The problem isn't filesharing, the problem is an archaic industry that still has enough money to buy off politicians to make laws in their favor. Artists that have adapted are doing fine.

      "Most stuff is crap."

      Arrogant much?

      "But those that have proved themselves... "hey, I know I like this guy's music but I'm a cheapskate so I'm going to download that anyway.""

      Econ 101, Day 1 - Supply and Demand

      1) The value/price of something is a function of the supply of it, and the demand for it. Value = Demand/Supply
      2) If it can be digitized, it can be duplicated with perfect fidelity infinitely
      3) Any finite demand divided by a virtually infinite supply creates a value of as close to zero as makes no odds

      Music... the data that is the music... it WORTHLESS. It does not matter one bit how much it cost to record the song, how much the artists loves themselves, how much time they spent on it... the market has spoken. It's worthless. The cost is some minuscule portion of my hard drive space, electricity bill and FiOS subscription. This battle was done and over when the MP3 format was invented. The corpse just is just too stubborn to admit that it's dead. People don't want the gravy train to stop. It has nothing to do with art or ethics, it's about greed and fear.

      "Now, I have bought CD albums I'd downloaded that I wouldn't have if I'd not. Yes, that happens. But most people just want free mp3s on their portable music player, they aren't concerned about supporting the artist or even having a pressed CD as a collector's item or for preservation."

      Sell me something that has VALUE, and i'll buy it. Data has no value. Sell me a t-shirt, a performance, a limited edition dealiebob. Somethi

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    154. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Playing the strawman card again and flinging insults now are you?

      Perhaps you should become a lawyer when you grow up. You have a way of twisting your words to suit any contingency.

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising

      I disagree, I think people will still like the same type of music

      I have the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on music marketing to back up my opinion.
      What basis do you have for your beliefs?

      The billions of dollars that they make back.

      You seem unclear on the concept - those billions are proof that the advertising works

      Or it's proof that people genuinely like the music.

      Do you really think my point is that advertising makes people buy stuff they dislike?

      The only reason a million times as many people prefer Spears and the like is because of advertising

    155. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Sure it's ridiculous, but again, let's face it, downloading mp3s for free on the internet is going to hurt artists.

      Only if the downloader would've paid for songs if they weren't able to download them for free. So while its true that artists get hurt by this in general, not every download actually hurts.

    156. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by manicb · · Score: 1

      You're quite right that there is a plentiful supply of good music. It may well be possible without full-time artists. If your dream is "enough good music for everyone" then we could be on track. I'm coming from a mindset where I believe that great music has a right to exist, and I am saddened by the idea of potential great music that is never created or never heard. Interesting parallel to the abortion debate, but let's not go there... I'm sure there is a lifetime's supply of great gigs in the US if you happen to live near some popular venues or good transport links.

      BTW, if you make good music and its not available through the large chains... I'll buy it

      You've got me confused now. Do you believe that you should buy recorded music or not? I understand both positions (and have problems with both, too!)

    157. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Can't buy it if you don't know it exists, and that cuts two ways with the domination of advertising big acts crowding out awareness of other acts too.

      Since you couldn't take that meaning away from what I wrote I suggest you stop focusing on sentence fragments and pay attention to the entire post. Your illiteracy is not my problem.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    158. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Predictable, another weak excuse. It is a summary and one that quite thoroughly encompasses the meat of the discussion.

      You were caught and called, simple as that. If you didn't mean the words that you wrote then you shouldn't have typed them. Your inability to properly articulate your opinion is not my problem.

    159. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Right... Because if an argument appears to be absurd then that's the interpretation you should run with, no critical thinking required.
      And you thought I was insulting you.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    160. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8337887.stm

      File-sharers are big spenders too

      People who download music illegally also spend an average of £77 a year buying it legitimately, a survey has found.

      Those who claimed not to use peer-to-peer filesharing sites such as The Pirate Bay spent a yearly average of just £44.

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    161. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That certainly appears to be what you resorted to doing. Good job.

    162. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear, I don't pirate. Never really have, never really intend to. Short of looking up music videos on YouTube (does that count?) I think downloading music without paying isn't playing fair.

      But that doesn't mean I can't see exactly why people do. People do so because, more so than at any time in history, there is a colossal disparity between the cost of music and the cost of the medium it's being sold on. Transferring music electronically has an extremely small cost. Producing music also costs far less than ever- most specialist music equipment is being superseded by cheaper and more common computing tech. But the price remains shockingly high.

      Ask any defender of these high prices about the reasoning, and you'll receive the same answer- if music weren't expensive, artists couldn't be paid as much, and so mussic won't get made.

      As I was arguing above, why do we accept this argument? Mainstream artists have never ever been as well paid as they are right now, with even non-notable acts receiving eye-watering salaries while they're in vogue, and the bigger acts become filthy rich into eternity. There's no historical precedent for this; its a completely new notion. There is no evidence that if the super-rich took a pay cut, to make legitimate music sales more realistic and competitive, that quality music would suddenly cease to be made.

      While the cost of purchasing music is so ridiculously out of sync with the actual cost of the medium, people won't buy it. That's why piracy happens. If the "staff" involved in the production of this "product" aren't willing to cut costs in order to stay competitive, how can we expect this too turn out any differently than it did for every other company in the same predicament?

      And while we're on the subject, piracy (and by association low-cost music both illegal or otherwise) has been shown time and time again to be beneficial for smaller artists. A climate of low-cost music should be beneficial for musicians as a whole- just not for the small number already at the top of the pile.

    163. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Making music--good music--takes time and resources.

      It may take time, but good music doesn't require resources or a multi-million dollar budget.

      Beethoven didn't need a multi-million dollar record company to make the 9th nor did he need copyrights.

      The whole need for a recording industry is a rather recent phenomenon and despite what people say, it is not needed in order create good music.

      I'm not pro-piracy either, but I'm arguing a better system needs to come about because art doesn't need anymore lawyers.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    164. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Downloading without giving the artist a dime is not really a "great thing" at all, in my opinion.

      The real problem is that the record labels don't give the artists a dime either and then blame it on piracy while pocketing real earnings.

      Personally, I think with should at least admit the RIAA is socialism where if the government stepped out of the equation that people would stop creating art simply for money because it would no longer be a guaranteed source of income (its currently not anyways but I digress).

      But at the same time, if copyrights went away tomorrow people would still play music, paint paintings, and write books because they have been doing that for thousands of years without copyrights.

      That said... Copyrights keep FOSS alive so its a double edged sword.

      Perhaps if the limits were reduced a bit.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    165. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      That certainly appears to be what you resorted to doing. Good job.

      Really? Are you claiming you weren't trying to disprove that advertising makes people buy stuff they don't like?
      What were you trying to disprove then?

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    166. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Many artists sell CDs through their own labels on their websites. There's no need to even bring the RIAA into the equation. Piracy hurts these guys too.

    167. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Amateurs can and do make games for the Xbox 360, so that argument doesn't really hold. The trouble is they're often extremely basic. The most popular games being played as measured by Microsoft are consistently the big budget franchise hits.

    168. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, my brother is a professional music producer who works on (amongst other things) Hollywood movies. So you're belief that I don't "hang around" with musicians isn't correct.

    169. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      If a lossless audio format isn't good enough for you there really isn't much left you can do...

      I would be the first to agree that there is a lot of snake-oil kicking around in the "audiophile" equipment industry, but I was actually being quite careful not to buy into it.

      The point I tried to make in the second half of that sentence you quoted was that I'm perfectly aware that there should be no difference between the signal from a sound-card delivering a signal derived from Apple's Lossless or FLAC codecs and that derived from a typical CDDA wav file. I have to re-emphasise the word "sound-card", which in the case of the iPod is designed primarily for compactness.

      I was simply making the point that if you plug an iPod into any half-decent stereo system, you will find the difference in reproduction perceptibly inferior to that from a CD player. Some have mentioned on /. that even the Zune sounds better in this regard, but I've never had the opportunity to verify this.

    170. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Nossie · · Score: 1

      I don't believe great music is created when you are rolling in dough, I'm not saying artists (of any kind) should be paupers but the majority of fantastic works were done before the artist became huge .. I also think the more artists work the less time they have to spend sniffing coke and gold plating their swimming pools :P People have an URGE to create music or write or draw (my gf btw is an artist of the animating kind)

      If the huge money is not there people will still do what they want to do and it gives the smaller less known people a chance to crawl to the top. There are a thousand or so good bands round about you that only want you to listen to them.. The record industry wants you to believe that if they didn't exist music would not exist... but that is simply not true.

      Go back to the era before these cartels, all the long dead famous pauper artists of any kind... did we need the industry for them to create works? no... did we have the infrastructure to support culture and pay Shakespeare sufficiently then? no but we have much more expendable income than we ever did before. Encourage sharing, encourage mixing, encourage our culture to be free from these restrictive blights or we will never be able to experience the steam boat willies of our next generation they will be locked up under copyright and patent only to be provided to the few.

      "Do you believe that you should buy recorded music or not?"

      The small bands, the ones that press their own discs and sell them at the gigs. Without a [big] record label you know where the money is going to go and you want to support your artist. If that's the only way you can find the music (because its too obscure to find online maybe?) and you know where the profit is going then I'd be up for laying cash down for the cd.

    171. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by manicb · · Score: 1

      I largely agree. This expectation that top musicians will be multi-millionaires is unnecessary and absurd. It's really sad to see people on "reality" shows who believe that if they can just show their talent they will be made for life. Even worse if they are actually talented.

      There is one sticking point however, which keeps us with the modern industry for now: production. We've developed an ear for expensive, skilled production. This has had unfortunate side effects such as the loudness war, the current generation's obsession with heavy compression, "I HAS AN AUTOTUNE" and more. But it has also made some ideas far more powerful. Would "Dark Side of the Moon" be as beautiful and immersive if it was recorded on a 4-track in a garage? I won't deny Michael Jackson's genius, but I think having Quincy Jones on side was a big help. Ditto the Beatles and George Martin. When you listen to a recorded work you are getting a lot of enjoyment from the hard work of producers, session players, mixing and mastering engineers. It's possible to do it without them, in fact it's easier and cheaper than ever, but many artists can't handle the technical side. One role the industry has played is to put together really talented teams that will complement each other. Do they deserve a huge cut for this? Maybe not. Are producers and mastering engineers overpaid? Some of them are (IMO, YMMV, IANAL, etc.) Does that mean the band deserves your money and they don't?

      The interesting bit is that there does seem to be increased awareness of the artist getting screwed. This is partly raised whenever another high-profile 20th-century musician dies in poverty, and partly by successful bands like Radiohead and NIN conspicuously ridding themselves of "the system" at the soonest opportunity. I would love it if a label gave us a breakdown of where the money went from an album sale. Maybe a few more people would buy Lily Allen's records if they knew she would actually see some of their money? Could get embarrassing for some, of course: "All the royalties from this copy of Bittersweet Symphony will be paid to the Rolling Stones!"

    172. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by giuda · · Score: 1

      Wow.. that explains why CSS (brazilian indie band) is signed to an USA label (Subpop)

    173. Re:It's yhy anti-piracy is a BAD thing... by Mex · · Score: 1

      I hate to break it to you, but go check out the pirate bay's most downloaded songs. Top 10 is generally full of garbage, just as the traditional top 10 pop billboards were. I'm sure you'll find Lady Gaga on or near the top, I remember it was a few weeks ago.

      So I think none of what you said will happen.

  3. Not quite.. by wanax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the age of infinite access to music that is considered popularly or culturally relevant. In times before recording, music was played constantly, but to see the critical acclaimed required one to buy a fairly expensive ticket. In the age since recording, the popular and acclaimed required purchase of a fairly expensive to make medium. Recently, the price of access to popular or acclaimed music has been some technical savvy. While DRM and legislative action may eventually curtail access to popular or acclaimed music, it will do no such thing to indy, modern or any un-acclaimed pieces or groups, because in such an environment enforcement will be expensive.

  4. Careful now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That kid is likely destined to become an "arrogant bloke who tends to work in record shops".

    1. Re:Careful now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That kid is likely destined to become an "arrogant bloke who tends to work in record shops".

      Which is tragic, because there won't be any record shops when he grows up.

  5. I'd Rather... by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd rather put my money in a tip jar of garage bands in Japan, South Africa, Germany or elsewhere rather than spend another dime funding the RIAA's accusations that pretty much everyone who uses the Internet is a criminal. And funnily enough, every time I say this on Slashdot there always seem to be several replies telling me to check out some dudes and I end up doing just that.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:I'd Rather... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not going to advice any particular bands, there are great internet services you can use to find and discover new artists and new types of music.

      Sadly, due to copyright laws, none of these I can actually use in my country. Yay copyright! Copyright; protecting us from culture for over 50 years after death now!

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    2. Re:I'd Rather... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 4, Funny

      Okay, maybe you can't use them, but that doesn't preclude you from actually telling us what they are.

    3. Re:I'd Rather... by brit74 · · Score: 1

      Not going to advice any particular bands, there are great internet services you can use to find and discover new artists and new types of music.

      Sadly, due to copyright laws, none of these I can actually use in my country.

      You mean you don't have YouTube, MySpace, Amazon, LastFM, internet radio, etc in your country due to copyright?

  6. It's surprising really... by pyr02k1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you get down to it, it is quite surprising the kinds of music my generation will listen to when given the chance. As was stated in another comment, in the past it was limited to what they wanted you to hear. You would be limited to the selection on the radio and nothing more. Now, with piracy galore and plenty of music services, such as Pandora, you get a taste of other varieties and artists you would never have heard before. I can go from listening to Heavy Metal to Techno to Country and then into Classical. My taste is open, simply because of piracy and the free services available. As time progresses, it'll be interesting to see how this shapes. Mainly because of how much the various MAFIAAs are trying to kill piracy in its whole, without an alternative, and yet refuse to decrease the price of a media that costs 1/50th to produce and distribute as they charge for it in a retail store. They continue to push and shove for people who pirate music to pay hugely outrageous fines, and yet they dont make it available at a reasonable price. Imagine having to go to a store and pay $15 for a loaf of bread, simply because they can charge that much and get away for it. It's a matter of time until fat people galore go running out of the store with 8 loaves stuffed in their pants. It stuns many of the people I talk to when they ask how I can go from one genre to another without being phased, and enjoy it all just the same, and I answer that without being forced to listen to only popular media and having the ability to open my horizons more then most, I can find more music and movies to enjoy then most people would ever dream... well, except everyone here. Not that any of us would ever pirate anything in our lives... of course not. Yayyyy Piracy! I mean ... ehh, heck with it

    1. Re:It's surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and yet they dont make it available at a reasonable price

      If you have an infinite supply of something, each example of which can itself be perfectly and infinitely reproduced and distributed globally at virtually no cost, then the only "reasonable price" is going to be indistinguishable from free.

    2. Re:It's surprising really... by shiftless · · Score: 1

      As time progresses, it'll be interesting to see how this shapes.

      One thing it (free access to music) is doing is broadly expanding minds and tastes, as you have illustrated. It's making the music better. Think of how shitty and limited music was back in, say, 1910 compared to today. There is a ton of good music available today that wasn't even thought of or imagined back then. As advances have been made in recording and distribution technology over the past few decades, people have been more and more exposed to different kinds of music and different ideas, and music as a whole has greatly benefited. Sure, there is plenty of shit music out there, but there's a fuckload of good stuff too, moreso than any other time in history. That's why we have computers and rating systems, to help us quickly sort out the shit from the good stuff. Is today's free and unlimited access to music going to have huge, sweeping, and generally positive results in the music industry? Fuck yeah it is, and anyone who can't see what's going on in the big picture is blind or stupid.

      Digital distribution has made copying bits as easy as clicking a mouse button, and everybody is doing it. When a huge percentage of society is engaging in a certain activity, that activity is de facto not immoral or wrong, and someone is a fucking idiot if they think they can legislate or prosecute it out of existence. That's about as smart or effective as trying to legislate snake bites out of existence by making it illegal for snakes to bite people. Yeah good luck with that, dumb asses.

      Unlimited copyright infringement is here to stay--there is no doubt about it--until the day that copyright is finally abolished for good. I can understand why a lot of people are trying to fight this. The Internet (and digital communication as a whole) is causing massive changes in the way we do a lot of things, and copyright is one of the big areas affected. It's going to put entire industries out of business and change others markedly and this is already happening as we speak. But prosecuting people and trying to make them feel like bad people for copying bits around are temporary measures that will only slow down the flood to a more manageable rate, not stop it or prevent it. These are the actions of idiots, people with no vision. The smart people will see what's going on in the big picture, realize that change is inevitable, and roll with it. Those are the ones who will found the future industries that nobody has even thought of yet that will spring up and generate billions of dollars.

      Think of Google. Who in their right mind would have imagined even ten years ago, let alone 20 years ago, that you could make that much money from a friggin search engine? Twenty years ago who the hell had ever heard of a search engine? Back then the Google founders would have been labelled as dumb asses for their silly ideas and disregarded. But they had the vision, and the naysayers didn't, and guess who became incredibly rich? Today there are people out there who understand how things will be ten or twenty years from now. Those people will be tomorrow's billionaires, and all the dumb asses screaming about how the sky is falling because things are changing will still be nobodies then just as they are now.

      A hundred years from now, the idea of it being illegal to make copies of stuff will seem as silly and antiquated (and downright wrong) to people as the idea of owning slaves seems to us now. That's where things are going, and you can take that to the bank.

    3. Re:It's surprising really... by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      I have a 17-yr old cousin and it's interesting to see what's on her playlist. It ranges from Black-Eyed Peas to Sinatra. The Red Hot Chili Peppers are her favorite band. Her 11-yr old sister is a giant Beatles fan. They get their music via itunes and a few CD rips and their range is incredibly eclectic.

      When I was between those ages my selection was a lot more limited due to finances and exposure to music. I didn't have the money to buy stuff I wasn't absolutely sure I was going to like and so my horizons never really got opened until the net and napster. I was able to find out about bands to look for with the net and then napster allowed me to sample new genres without ever leaving home.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  7. John Harris writes... by mcwop · · Score: 1
    the album replaced by endless individual songs and music rendered pretty much worthless by the fact that it's universally free.

    Disagree. I have downloaded, and paid for, several full albums that are great - for example Polvo's new album "In Prism". What I think is about to change is live performances. Bands will tape high quality audio and video of live performances for easy purchase. This is not as widespread as it could be, and for indie bands is often relegated to audience tapings.

    --

    "I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX

  8. "in precious little time" ... "an expert" by foobsr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Which indicates that either the domain is rather small or the semantics of 'expert' has changed dramatically.

    With regard to "all kinds of artists" (which probably should read 'various kinds of musicians' — but probably it takes longer to become an 'expert' writer) I suspect the former, the latter otherwise.

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  9. Infinite music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From Funkadelic to The Smiths?
    From Nick Drake and John Martyn to Pavement and Dinosaur Jr.??

    Your point may be good, but christ, these examples of infinity and endless appetite for music cover a really, really small range of what music is.

    No wonder you were always so embarrased in the shop.

    On second thought, I'm not sure point is so good.
    On the evidence, the interwebz really just provide an opportunity to imagine one's broadened oneself by becoming even more deeply enmeshed in one little thing.

    1. Re:Infinite music by smitty777 · · Score: 1

      I agree. There have been a lot of studies that show that the more choices we have, the more difficult it is to make the choice - and the choice is virtually limitless now. Having so many choices, our options are to either become enmeshed in one little thing, or know very little about everything.

      --
      "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish"
      Albert Einstein
  10. Choice by symes · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Choice under these conditions has been studied. The stndard example is something like, someone goes into a store to buy a new tv - is confronted by 50 models, can't choose and walks out again. Whereas going into a tv store where there's only 5 models available, quickly makes a choice and walks out with a tv. The point is, more choice does not neccessarily mean easier choices. I have this problem myself - I want to listen to some new music, refresh what's on my iPod, but confronted by this vast ocean of music, almost limitless possibilities, I get exasperated and end up either not bothering or downloading another album from someone I know. Now, however, I have a new name to explore - Pavement - I don't have any of thier music. Anyhow - the point of this story was to say that infinite music is not neccessarily a good thing. I personally find I listen to the radio more and more... leaving the music choices to someone else.

    1. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is precisely why services such as pandora, last.fm, Imeem and the rest exist. Put in a few names from bands you know, and pandora will pop up half a dozen or more suggestions, more often than not, they are pretty good.
       
      it doesn't broaden your horizons all that much, but Imeem will, because it's idea of suggesting music is to load the page with the best ad income, even if it's an entirely different genre. However, while this practice is less than savory, it does tend to expose you to things you would otherwise not be aware of. I also find that streaming radio station that have good DJs tend to be an endless source of new music.

    2. Re:Choice by symes · · Score: 1

      But even with Pandora you have to give it something and it finds similar... I'm kind of holding onto the idea that, out there, somewhere, there's a punk for cello quintet doing covers of hip hop classics that will just bowl me over... I kind of need a Pandora in reverse. Something that will look at what I like and, taking into account the dross I suffer on local and national radio, take me to places where I've never been before.

    3. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, however, I have a new name to explore - Pavement - I don't have any of thier music.

      This prompted a trip down memory lane for me. How did I discover Pavement? This is, in some ways, a pathetic story-- in other ways it echoes the article. No, i didnt hear them live. No, my buddy didn't bring them in the car on a cross country road trip. No, their beautiful music was not the soundtrack of my first kiss.

      Actually, I read a review of their first album online about five years ago. Downloaded it, put it on my mp3 player, went for what I thought would be a short walk to the grocery store. Actually, I never made it to the grocery store. I walked to central park. Past the park to the river. When the album finished I sat for a while. Then I listened to it again on my walk home.

      Seriously this band changed my life.

      And get this. They are reuniting to play for the first time in years. Where? Central Park. Guess who bought a ticket during the absolutely ridiculous 1 year advance presale? Yep. See you there?

    4. Re:Choice by Phurge · · Score: 1

      check out last.fm

      --
      I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
    5. Re:Choice by khallow · · Score: 1

      I don't buy the current research because it doesn't study the effects of learning. Currently, we have a population who have not learned how to deal with a large number of choices. That doesn't mean that fifty years from now, the general population will remain so undecided. Large numbers of choices require different strategies. For example, the use of random selection to cull the list. With but a coin, I can trim a list of any size down to a few on the order of log_2(N). IPod has "shuffle" which automates the selection process of picking music to play by randomly selecting songs from a large list. Or chose from the top few on a huge list.

    6. Re:Choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to listen to some new music... but confronted by this vast ocean of music... I get exasperated and end up either not bothering or downloading another album from someone I know.

      I think I know what you mean. A wizard once told me, "That's what Ritalin's for.".

        In his strange white robes. There was a dullness to his eyes, he glanced to the window but didn't focus his eyes on the ocean outside. A fly was circling overhead and the wizard suddenly noticed me, "Are you my grandson?". "No.", I said with a sigh. He blinked a few times, then nodded to my backpack, he asked "Did you bring my record?". "Record? You mean CD?". With raised eyebrows, he torted back, "I don't speak your young, coded, halfling hip-hop nonsense. Why would I need a condom anyway? At my age I'm lucky if can remember what I'm doing, where I'm doing, when I'm doing it, what I'm doing." Losing his train of thought, "That's what Ritalin's for!". The disturbance began drawing attention. A robed healer looked up from treating a female hobbit.
        Seizing this opportunity to change the subject, I asked, "What is the Labyrinth?". Realizing he followed my pointed hand to gaze at a picture on the wall, I shook my head and gestured more broadly. He seemed to understand now. His mirrored shades giving an emptiness to his face. "The Labyrinth is all around you; the air you breath, the food you eat. It is the poison baked into the cookie-uhhh, the prison you were born into. You are a slave. A slave to the Matrix.". -"Labyrinth!", I corrected. "Oh, yeah. What did I say?" "You... Nevermind." "Well, where were we. Okay, yes! Cowboy Neal has some good songs for all you kids, the-" "NOOO!", I shouted. "Get back to the correct plot!", I begged. Again realizing where he was, the wizard calmly said, "Ah, it doesn't matter, nobody will ever read to this point.". The wizard leaned forward and burned the remaining words onto the screen, "Take the blue pill. You'll thank me later.".

    7. Re:Choice by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      I use Spotify, and especially the radio feature to find new music.Spotify's radio can be narrowed on genre and time, so I can set it on techno & house from the current decade to find new elecronic stuff.

      As interesting stuff comes along I just add it to one of my playlists or make a note of the artist. When crap comes along I press 'next'. ;)

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  11. It's an evolution, not a revolution by gordguide · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Certainly I can't argue with anything in the parent post: the youth of today are, often amazingly, and always re-assuredly, listening to music and learning about music that is "not of their direct experience" (which is, admittedly, a clumsy construct ... I'm not sure I really know how to describe what I mean by that; I'm hoping most people just get it).

    I remember going to the "record store" when I was a young pup. Here I was, amongst a seemingly limitless array of music, and I was, I thought, emperor of all that was before me. All I needed was $9.98 and I was there. It was much better than a library, and much more interesting than a class.

    Today, you need much less than ten bucks. You can sample what it took my money, or a friend's money, or an older brother's money, or a hip station to throw out there, today it costs what could be essentially described as "nothing but time". And time invested is not without cost, by any means.

    I sense a hint of failure, or resignation: something along the lines of "I invested all that and kids get it today by investing much less."

    But, that's what I enjoyed too, and so did the author of the parent. It's how he came about to know enough to write the book in the first place, a book his older brothers or his parents probably could not have written.

    And the kids still need you; they still help to find what they enjoy in a similar way. What's different is they listen to what their parents like, whereas I thought my parents were musically bankrupt. They value the music, and from that they put a higher value on the investment in time to explore the music, whereas we still had to figure in a larger investment in earnings balanced by that time.

    It is, in so many words, and example of what limited distribution cost us all; what the RIAA cost us by it's business model of days gone by, and what the music industry needs to learn to exploit, if it's to survive, rather than rail against.

    It's a good thing.

    1. Re:It's an evolution, not a revolution by cs96and · · Score: 1

      Well whatever. Because that is me. I evolve, but I don't revolve. Or vice-versa. I suppose what you're trying to say is, you don't want another Chris Evans on your hands.

    2. Re:It's an evolution, not a revolution by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      Teen speaking here: My parents' music is trash, I read several music blogs on a regular basis, and with the help of Amazon MP3's wonderful service and the occasional brief listen on YouTube or Lala I'm set to go. I certainly pay for all of my music; I don't usually mull and sample and think about it. If it's good, I buy it.

  12. I am also an AC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    And I love Madonna!

    1. Re:I am also an AC... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      If I could Turn Back Time

      (I wouldn't have started any of this silliness)

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  13. It really is a golden age by steveha · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm finding new music I like at a far faster rate than I was ten years ago. The biggest difference is that now, I have Rhapsody. (Just like the guy who wrote TFA mentioned that he has Spotify.)

    I can find an artist I like, and there are links on the page. Hey, you like Genesis? Check out Steve Hackett, Brand X, and Mike + the Mechanics, and Alan Parsons Project and Yes; check out "Art & Progressive Rock"; check out playlists that other users made that relate to Genesis; in short there are literally dozens of links. Some of the links are tenuous and unlikely, yet I have used them to branch over to music I really like: Genesis to Peter Gabriel to Synergy (Larry Fast) to Zero 7 and Infected Mushroom.

    Even if you don't sign up for a music service, you can do something similar with a large online store such as Amazon. You can only hear short samples, not the full song, but you can still navigate a web of connections.

    It used to be that to even hear about obscure music, you had to subscribe to music newsletters or hang out in non-mainstream record shops or at least have a friend who did those things. Now you can click around from song to song, and if it takes you nine songs you don't like to find one you do like, you are still only out a couple of minutes. And if you are like me, and you listen to albums many times if you like them, it's totally worth spending a little time branching out. Add in a little bit of time looking bands up on Wikipedia and other sources, and you too can be as much of a music expert as someone who writes for a magazine.

    The RIAA and the big labels fear this new world. They want to keep charging for music as if it were a scarce commodity. I read an interview with a guy from a studio, and he defended the high price of CDs: the price is fair because it's really hard to be a studio; you have to try to find new acts, and when you guess wrong, a whole bunch of CDs go into a landfill. Well, guess what: on the Internet, you can just provide the music, and if nobody likes it, it will just sit there; and if people do like it, you make pure profit. No CDs need be produced and then landfilled. The costs go way, way down with digital distribution. They want their costs to drop, while still charging the same inflated prices they try to justify on CDs; that won't work.

    The future of music is: everything available on the Internet, at lower prices than if you buy CDs. Most artists will not bother to sign their fortunes over to big record studios; they will retain control of their music, and deal more directly with the customers. There will still be middle-men, but fewer of them, and they will make less money (which doesn't sound good if you are a middle-man but sounds pretty darn good to me). And absolutely nothing will go out of print. If an album sells two copies a year, it has paid back the costs of letting it sit on a server and it is already slightly in the black.

    I remember, when I was in high school, how truly huge and popular certain bands were. Whether you liked them or hated them, you recognized Styx or Van Halen when you heard them. In the future, new bands may find it impossible to reach the same level of success and recognition, because everyone will fragment themselves into small sub-markets. It will be hard for any one act to capture everyone's full attention and hold it for more than a very short time.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:It really is a golden age by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      I read an interview with a guy from a studio, and he defended the high price of CDs: the price is fair because it's really hard to be a studio; you have to try to find new acts, and when you guess wrong, a whole bunch of CDs go into a landfill. Well, guess what: on the Internet, you can just provide the music, and if nobody likes it, it will just sit there; and if people do like it, you make pure profit. No CDs need be produced and then landfilled.

      No offense intended but you completely misunderstood the guys point. Pressing CDs is cheap. "Throwing them in the landfill" was a metaphor for "losing the money invested" not for actually throwing away pieces of metal and plastic. The cost of producing a CD is mostly in the production, studio time, paying the people to sit around and compose all day, then the marketing costs needed to tell the world about this new act they might like. If the guess is wrong, that money is lost.

      The future of music is: everything available on the Internet, at lower prices than if you buy CDs. Most artists will not bother to sign their fortunes over to big record studios; they will retain control of their music, and deal more directly with the customers.

      Well we'd like to think that wouldn't we. But it doesn't actually seem to be going that way. What's the first thing all these bands that got big on MySpace did? Ah right, sign with a label. I listen to a lot of net radio, especially BassDrive. I heard a great track there the other day. Once I finally tracked it down, it turned out that it's unsigned. That means you can't buy it anywhere. I asked the producer why he doesn't sell it direct through CDbaby or on his own website, answer:

      if you can give me 250 euro. yeah sure xD

      no bro .. i only sell my tracks to recordlabels sorry

      Huh. So much for the internet revolutionising music. Here is an obscure DnB producer that I found through internet radio, whos website is on MySpace and .... guess what. He only uses the "legacy business model". So though I'd love to see this frustrating and archaic system disappear, I do realize that it fulfills a purpose - musicians don't want to fuck about with distribution. They want to make music and have some semblance of financial stability, with other people absorbing the losses from failures and making it back on the hits.

    2. Re:It really is a golden age by SendBot · · Score: 1

      Huh. So much for the internet revolutionising music. Here is an obscure DnB producer that I found through internet radio, whos website is on MySpace and .... guess what. He only uses the "legacy business model". So though I'd love to see this frustrating and archaic system disappear, I do realize that it fulfills a purpose - musicians don't want to fuck about with distribution. They want to make music and have some semblance of financial stability, with other people absorbing the losses from failures and making it back on the hits.

      You make an excellent point, but then isn't that precisely what cdbaby is good for? I just sent in a resume to be a systems admin for them... not betting heavily on it but I'd still love to work there.

    3. Re:It really is a golden age by steveha · · Score: 1

      No offense intended but you completely misunderstood the guys point. Pressing CDs is cheap. "Throwing them in the landfill" was a metaphor for "losing the money invested" not for actually throwing away pieces of metal and plastic.

      No, I don't believe I misunderstood anything. He was claiming that to sell lots of CDs, you need to make and distribute lots of CDs, and run an advertising campaign; and if you do that and the CD flops, it's expensive.

      Yes, there are some costs that apply even with digital distribution: as you say, production costs. Even those need not be sky-high. There are lots of eager bands who will self-produce their first album with GarageBand or something. (And before you say anything about the self-produced albums being of inferior quality: not necessarily. With modern, affordable, digital equipment, the band can make a clean recording and do an acceptable job of mastering. Maybe even a better job than the professionals right now!)

      The past of music is a whole bunch of failures and a few huge successes. I predict that the future is a whole bunch of modest successes and a few bigger successes. And you really can just take some music, put it on a server, and see if anyone buys it. Word-of-mouth publicity has never been easier to get than in the age of blogs.

      My point is not that the true, proper cost to produce music is zero. My point is that in the 21st Century, it's cheaper than it ever has been to produce music, especially for digital-only distribution. The proper price of a music album isn't $0 but it isn't $18 either. The market will decide, with competition, but I'm predicting the price will fall.

      Huh. So much for the internet revolutionising music. Here is an obscure DnB producer that I found through internet radio, whos website is on MySpace and .... guess what. He only uses the "legacy business model".

      Sorry, but I don't really care what one "obscure DnB producer" does or doesn't do. I'm making broad sweeping predictions about future trends; of course we aren't quite there yet and of course there will be exceptions.

      And I'll give you a counter-example: Magnatune. They are a small record label that does not make artists sign their whole futures away (they split the take 50/50 with the artists); they just put music on the Internet and see who buys it (and they let you listen to the whole album in medium-quality MP3 before you decide whether to buy it or not).

      The future of music on the Internet is more like Magnatune and less like this.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    4. Re:It really is a golden age by ovu · · Score: 1

      "Pure profit" may be reaching a little. Having personally financed several independent albums, my experience is that physical media manufacturing constitutes ~10% of the cost of creating an album of music at a professional level on a bare bones budget. "Recovering a fraction of production expenses" may be a more appropriate designation for any revenues generated!

    5. Re:It really is a golden age by steveha · · Score: 1

      Hmm, perhaps I could have phrased that better. My point was that the cost of offering an album for sale is approaching zero; once you have an album to sell, you can host it on a server, and any sales are "pure profit". (Or more likely, some distributor runs the server, so he can spread the costs of the server across many many albums.)

      So, if we assume that the artists have somehow produced an album, that album should never go out of print; it can sit on a server, and if it sells a couple of copies a year, that's good enough to keep it on the server.

      I'm not trying to assume that it costs zero to produce an album. However, I'm imagining a lot of bands trying to break into the business self-producing their first album, with GarageBand or what have you, and once they have done that, finding a very low barrier of entry into the market. On the other hand, they are not guaranteed to become as rich and famous as Styx and Van Halen.

      It wouldn't surprise me if most bands could make a few hundred bucks a year off their albums, with a lucky/talented few making it big and making more. This seems better than the current system, where the labels siphon off almost all the profit, such that most bands make nothing at all, and a lucky/talented very few make it big and can fight back enough to keep some profit.

      However, if you have worked in the industry, you are way ahead of me. If you think I'm mistaken about any of this, I'd be very interested to hear the details.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  14. Beat Your Own DRM by flaptrap · · Score: 1

    Music is one way we find our cultural identity, and the information age created a way to reproduce performances and not just the sheet music, but compare this to the history of Bach and Telemann. While the music 'industry' rode a wave of new technology to fame and fortune, as times change there will be another way for another culture to show its own identity. I just hope this is in a way that reinforces individual freedoms of expression rather than conformity to a distant power, and the recent music explosion is doing just that. Pay for Play you say?

  15. (Trivia) knowledge? by dragisha · · Score: 1

    He's probably into subject since he was 3 or 4, kind of Mozart phenomenon :).

    Seriously, I just hink you were blitzed by trivia-type expertise. To become expert in anything, time's required.

    --
    http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
  16. Singles vs Albums by joeflies · · Score: 1

    With so much music to listen to, will such a person bother listening to a whole album from that artist, or will that person just listen to a playlist of singles? I'm inclined to believe that with infinite music available, you'd skim the top of the best hits of each artist, and omit discovering other songs on the album that would be worth investigating. Infinite music doesn't mean you have infinite time available to listen to it all. Wheras when you had limited amounts of music, you probably spent more time with each one of your limited number of cd's, and probably grasped aspects of it that you never picked up on the first or second listen. Even with itunes, will artists bother to make "albums" anymore? Maybe just a single every now and then is the way it's headed. It's too early for me to say whether that will be a good or a bad thing though.

    1. Re:Singles vs Albums by daveime · · Score: 1

      Again, this is probably a result of the "mass-produced" crap that gets churned out these days.

      Back in the early 80's, I'd head up to the record shop with my savings, buy an album that I knew already had 2 or 3 good songs on it, and be fairly certain that the other 7 or 8 would also be good. I was rarely disappointed and usually felt like I'd got my money's worth.

      Nowadays, albums consist of the 1 hit wonder that made the artist famous, 2 or 3 "remixes" that cost nothing extra in studio recording time, (or worse still the same 1 hit wonder "featuring Beyonce" singing the backing vocals - she does this a lot), and 7 covers of other peoples songs ?

      Albums today have no originality past the 1st song, that you probably already own on single anyway.

      Why in God's name would anyone *want* to buy an album these days ?

    2. Re:Singles vs Albums by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since at least the 80s, the origin of being able to only make one hit, most performers could at best muster two good songs for a single album. The average seemed to be a single good song on an album full of filler garbage and that one good song was usually written by another person and just performed by the performer. For all the flak Milli Vanilli got for lip syncing this is almost exclusively what happens with most produced music these days. Now some bands do have some songs they wrote completely themselves and some bands do it all themselves still. But the usually result still is usually only one song worth listening too out of 12-14 filler tracks of audio torture. With such a dismal record, they should just abort the whole album model and go back to trying to be original and with quality.

      While there also might not be infinite time to listen to music, there is a great deal of it available and with devices like the iPod and iPhone it is easier than ever to have your selection with you and easily change out how you want to stock up your gigs of available space. Commute time, exercise time, cooking, showering and with the real music of old you can even have it playing while you read.

      In my opinion, profiteering off of music directly will become a thing of the past like a computer with no math co-processor. Performances will be a chance of course to make money but the days of the truly disproportionate money piles for the one hit wonders and one hit albums is heading the way of the giant dinosaurs. I do not see this as a bad thing either and not just because it will humble the ones who live high and mighty in pure arrogance nor even because for many of them the money just went right back to Medallin, Columbia and overpriced distilleries. I do not see it as a bad thing because it will once again pull quality and talent back into the equation instead of just media hyped and all tits and ass. Musicians will once again become musicians in it for the music and the art instead of the romanticized stereotype. A purification if you will of the corruption that has ruled the music industry and is personified by RIAA and nearly identical in the film industry with MPAA. (Not to get off topic but the lack of talent in Hollywood screams as they have to remake/ruin things like "V" or recycle old Latin America shows like "Ugly Betty" and their best movies are ripped right from video games and comic books and old cartoons and those are mediocre at best.)

      It is in the hopes of bringing down this profiteering that I personally never pay anymore to see any movie I want and listen to any music I want. This is why I always teach the new generations where and how to find things the same way that I do so they can never feed these monsters of no talent and greed either. The overall lack of quality that so many have lowered their standards to is sickening and this will never change so long as money is there to drive it. Anything involving art and expression in an artistic manner really should never have gotten in bed with corporatism just like turning everything into China*Mart is a bad idea.

    3. Re:Singles vs Albums by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      i don't think so, personally i think with the removal of the more blatant commercialism from music you'd probly get more people listening to bands than singles, but it's a dice roll.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    4. Re:Singles vs Albums by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If artists put time and effort into making an album something worthwhile to listen to as a whole, then it is thoroughly enjoyable as an entire album, like The Wall, or Tommy. Otherwise, it is worth no more than a sum of it's parts.

    5. Re:Singles vs Albums by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've hit upon a great question. Can you imagine a time when musicians will have to perform and record music - as their paying listeners want them to perform it? In other words, most of the artistry is thrown out - the musician must make music that the paying listeners micromanage as it is being recorded. This might be the only way to make it big again in music, by pleasing as many paying customers as possible.

  17. The endless present, the endless enigma by UBfusion · · Score: 1

    Half of my lifetime is dedicated to listening to music, as well as a significant percentage of my income is spent on LPs, CDs and audio-centered equipment. I can say with certainty that I do not envy today's teenagers that can have it all "for free". In my humble opinion, TFA expresses emotional and pseudo-economical musings, without addressing the key philosophical (and political) issues:

    1. What is today (and what was in the past) the relation between quality and quantity? How is society, especially the young ones, to discriminate between trash and masterpieces of music (or books, movies, art, knowledge, "information", at that matter)?

    2. Can there be value without scarcity? Can there be wisdom without suffering? If the author had that abundance of free choice when he was growing up, would he be the same person he is today?

    3. Isn't the highlighted quote "there's no longer any past - just an endless present" the most frightening of all, signaling the end of history, the end of capitalism and the end of the world as we know it?

    The key question today is whether and how an individual can survive the over abundance of "free" without alienating himself. Humanity has changed irreversibly thanks to the Internet and IT, making knowledge accessible to all (mostly for free), but is this really a good thing (TM)? Does free access to libraries make society better? Does (free) radio educate listener's ears? Do free books at school make better students? Or free grades?

    I am not a luddite, nor a posthuman condition evangelist, but I firmly believe that Education must reform itself drastically to equip pupils with tools for learning to navigate through and past noise, against thermal death due to overinformation, fostering individual diversity and creativity against consumerism (especially the consumerism of free stuff). Otherwise "there will be no future, just an endless present".

    1. Re:The endless present, the endless enigma by daveime · · Score: 1

      Does free access to libraries make society better? Does (free) radio educate listener's ears? Do free books at school make better students?

      It perhaps gives the whole of society the same opportunity, instead of limiting it to the select few with money or privilege ?

      Oh, I think I just realized why the RIAA don't like it !

    2. Re:The endless present, the endless enigma by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      The key question today is whether and how an individual can survive the over abundance of "free" without alienating himself. Humanity has changed irreversibly thanks to the Internet and IT, making knowledge accessible to all (mostly for free), but is this really a good thing (TM)?

      The net has enormous breadth, but it's never had depth. You can get a *synopsis or summary* of pretty much anything, especially thanks to Wikipedia, but if you want truly in-depth information on most subjects, you're still going to have to get up out of your chair and look for a print book, in many cases.

      Short, generic stuff with a copyright that nobody cares about, can be found online, yes. UNIX man pages and most cooking recipes are a good example of what I mean there. Longer, more in-depth books however, no. Book piracy is also still largely theoretical for the most part, as well. You can get some reference books on p2p, yes, but they're obsolete as soon as they are scanned, in terms of IT books at least, so there's not much point to them.

      Wikipedia is also, as always, exceptionally untrustworthy. It is virtually impossible to find a biographical article that isn't biased in one direction or the other, (especially of living individuals) and as I've noted before, the site continues to display a strong atheistic/pseudo-rationalistic bias, as well.

    3. Re:The endless present, the endless enigma by damburger · · Score: 1

      I have to question the received wisdom about the net being entirely full of dross. It has the tendency to grow in breadth before it grows in depth, but that does not mean that the depth is entirely lacking. You slam Wikipedia, but it is generally considered reasonably accurate for non-contentious technical subjects, and compared to a set of search results from, say, 10 years ago, often goes into quite a bit of depth.

      Its still just encyclopedia articles, but those are supposed to be brief. If you bother to look beyond Wikipedia there is a large and growing body of in-depth information on many subjects. For instance:

      focus.ti.com/lit/ug/slau049f/slau049f.pdf

      This is a >400 page user manual for the MSP430 micro-controller, provided as a free and legal download from the manufacturer. Having worked on a device using the MSP430 for over a year now I can attest to the fact it is pretty in depth information.

      Oh, and a Google search for 'free journals' turned up this list of scientific journals that make the full texts of their archived articles, not just the abstracts, available online:

      http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl

      I've clicked on a few of those and confirmed they do indeed supply free, peer-reviewed, scientific papers online. Exactly how much depth do you require?

      I know it is popular to slam the Internet as being a shallow resource, but it is only so if you are lazy and just go directly to Wikipedia. Just because something is free does not mean it has no value.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    4. Re:The endless present, the endless enigma by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      You slam Wikipedia, but it is generally considered reasonably accurate for non-contentious technical subjects, and compared to a set of search results from, say, 10 years ago, often goes into quite a bit of depth.

      Sure. As long as a) the topic you're looking for is non-contentious, and b) you're a fashionable neo-atheist, Wikipedia is fine.

      I've clicked on a few of those and confirmed they do indeed supply free, peer-reviewed, scientific papers online. Exactly how much depth do you require?

      You've been to some different sites. Most of the ones I've seen along those lines were pay. Mind you, scientific papers aren't the sort of stuff that I spend a lot of my time seeking out, either...but occasionally I come across a research study that someone has cited, which is of interest.

    5. Re:The endless present, the endless enigma by icebraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. What is today (and what was in the past) the relation between quality and quantity? How is society, especially the young ones, to discriminate between trash and masterpieces of music (or books, movies, art, knowledge, "information", at that matter)?

      Price and quantity was *never* related to quality. Having access to more culture means they'll listen to more quality works, as well as trash. Discrimination will come from studying the subject and having a huge cultural background, as it always did.

      2. Can there be value without scarcity?

      Yes. The correlation between value and scarcity is only one theory of value, the one expressed by the neoclassical economics. There are more theories for value setting, including "use-value", which expresses a value based on "a certain relation between the consumer and the object consumed". Supply and Demand is just a theory, not a fact.

      If the author had that abundance of free choice when he was growing up, would he be the same person he is today?

      Of course he wouldn't. But if that's good or bad is a different matter.

      Isn't the highlighted quote "there's no longer any past - just an endless present" the most frightening of all, signaling the end of history, the end of capitalism and the end of the world as we know it?

      So it was when Gutenberg invented the printing press. Are we worse because of that? I don't think so.

      It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. It's evolution, baby!

  18. Why listen to music anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I realized recently that most music I listen to is to keep me focused during coding, or avoid boredom while driving or sitting around at home. The point is that it's utterly irrelevant whether the music that I listen to is popular or not. There are certain milieux in which it's important not just to listen to music, but also to listen to the same music your friends are listening to, as a point of common reference. I just wonder how often that matters these days. In my case it matters not at all, so even though my musical tastes are a bit fussy, I can just about completely satisfy my listening appetites with free downloads from archive.org, magnatune, and so forth. Those sites don't have the popular big-label stuff, but they have other stuff of similar style and quality, so it works out fine.

  19. What I hate about music (today) by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

    Is that it attempts to capitalize on something that is based on an emotional response, perhaps even an emotion need, some may argue. There is something about music gets us moving, or thinking, or crying or something. It's just uncanny how it works out sometimes. But music just gets whored out to the masses these days and no one even thinks twice about it. No one questions lyrics that don't even begin to make sense. No one questions why melodies haven't evolved much in the past 100 or so years of mainstream music. It's just something that inexplicably fills some emotional void that they probably were not even aware existed because music has always been here for us to listen to.

    --
    The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
  20. So much music! by toby1 · · Score: 1

    i love my music and have far more available to me now than at any time growing up and it takes a toll just keeping it all in my head! I once would seek out and purchase an album and then listen to it over and over for weeks before I was able to get something new. now i get new tunes daily and it is a different experience - which i think is great. electronic acoustic and amplified all available practically on demand :) how much information can any of us take in and absorb before the internet eats our brains

    --
    Thou Shalt Ignite That Which Burns.
    1. Re:So much music! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how much information can any of us take in and absorb before the internet eats our brains

      No, that could never happen. It has no mouth, just bytes. It would never eat. our. ...aghe!@#$% *slurp*

      Your brain will be joined with the collective. We are the Bored. Rest is futile, you will be ASCII'd.

  21. John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Bazman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now he should try asking that kid about The Beatles. He may well find that the infinite music is not a continuum.

    1. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      Now he should try asking that kid about The Beatles. He may well find that the infinite music is not a continuum.

      Simple test to see if pirated music is truly infinite online.

      As two examples, try finding either of these two albums:-
      Serenity, by CultureBeat.
      You Gotta Believe, by Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch.

    2. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      in flac, ogg, and three bitrates of mp3 just in case you are picky. ;-)

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    4. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by petrus4 · · Score: 1

      Apparently this is a semi-underground site...which puts it out of the hands of most people, including myself.

      Thanks, though. :) I'm actually surprised, given its' apparent nature, that someone would even mention it on Slashdot.

    5. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Bazman · · Score: 1

      The real test is finding Music For Supermarkets by Jean Michel Jarre.

      [he made one vinyl copy then destroyed the multitrack tapes and the masters]

    6. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Qu4Z · · Score: 1

      Is that because it's actually called Music Of Supermarkets, or is that a separate album?

      http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4041934/Jean_Michel_Jarre_Full_Discography

    7. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by mgvrolijk · · Score: 1

      I just found it on Usenet (Easynews).

    8. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Bazman · · Score: 1

      I suppose technically it's "Musique pour Supermarche" (with an accent on the last 'e'). Wikipedia says it was played on Radio Luxembourg once and that bootlegs exist, so I guess the pirate bay torrent is one of those.

    9. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > He may well find that the infinite music is not a continuum.

      Or he may just find that crap (i.e., 99.9% of popular music and 100% of the Beatles) is ephemeral.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    10. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by mathx314 · · Score: 1

      I'm kind of sick of this argument. I'm 20 and absolutely love The Beatles. They're my third most-played on last.fm and I spent the $250 recently to buy the full set of Beatles: Rock Band equipment. Not only that, almost all of my friends love them just as much as I do. That said, I do know people who don't like them. There's probably some sample bias in here, but in general I've found that the majority of people my age at least know who The Beatles are and know a few songs, even if they don't particularly like them.

      I'm going to assume (actually, I'm certain based on how low your UID is) that you're a good deal older than me, and probably not really in contact with people my age. But believe me when I say that people my age do know and love The Beatles and many other older bands that you might think have disappeared. Hell, the music that my first girlfriend and I listened to the most was 1920s big band jazz. How often do you listen to music that old?

    11. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A little Google-Fu: search for "artist name" intitle:index.of mp3 -html -htm -php -asp -txt -pls

    12. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Bazman · · Score: 1

      My implication was that The Beatles aren't on Spotify or iTunes and so they are suffering from lower exposure to the people who are getting their music from these sources. I can only think that whoever holds the rights these days still looks down on digital distribution for some reason. Idiots.

      Did you see the reply from the troll saying 100% of The Beatles was 'ephemeral'? I bet he's not listened to 100% of The Beatles, probably just the odd track on Classic 60's radio shows. It wasn't until I had access to pretty much every Beatles album and listened to them in sequence, made some kind of sense of them, and then studied them thanks to Alan W Pollack's thorough treatments:

      http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-alphabet.shtml

        that I realised what absolute musical geniuses they were. Even Ringo. Maybe! Before then I thought they were a bunch of early vocal harmony love songs that made 60's teens wet themselves and another bunch of later songs written by drugged-up hippies with more Rolls-Royces than sense (Revolution #9). That was my dismissal of The Beatles until I had a chance to go through all their albums for nothing (hooray for friends' CD collections).

        I'll see your 1920s big band jazz and raise you some JS Bach :)

    13. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by mathx314 · · Score: 1

      Bach is shit. I'm more of a Beethoven guy myself. Classical is better than baroque. :D

      And while you do have a point that The Beatles are receiving less exposure these days due to the fact that they're not on Spotify/iTunes/whatever I just have to make the point that I don't really think they need much more exposure. They're The Beatles.

    14. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by supertusse · · Score: 1

      The Who you said?

    15. Re:John, Paul, George, Ringo who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be a lunchtime. A legacy that will last a lunchtime.

  22. Infinite Music! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Infinite music? Great! Who's paying?

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    1. Re:Infinite Music! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mother, with her dignity.

    2. Re:Infinite Music! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      So, asking reasonable questions is baiting flames? Oops, I think I did it again!

      It's a reasonable question because someone needs to provide the infinite music. So what's the deal? Are we planning to ask artists nicely, clap them in irons, wait until they get the money and time spare between jobs to put together an album, or just trust and hope that they'll throw their current careers away and begin touring full time? They seem to be the ideas du jour.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  23. No need to pirate music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm 54 yrs old. I have dozens of albums/cds, collected over the years of my life. I spend a LOT of time listening to public radio as well as music borrowed from the public library.

    I've not pirated a piece of music. I have downloaded music from the internet - but each piece is something free that groups I have found have made available for free. Sometimes, the group makes it available on their web sites. Sometimes, they make it available to someone doing reviews, or their labels make it available.

    Do I hear every piece of music being made in the world? Nope. I don't _have_ to. Would I like too? Sure - but I'd like to taste dishes from every dining establishment in town, but I wouldn't walk in and steal their food because of something I wanted. I'll either buy a meal there, or I'll wait for someone to invite me out to dinner.

    There is no need - or justification - for stealing music that an artist does not wish to make available for free.

    I would, however, love to see sites being used by artists to make their music available for free be better known. "In the old days", I could rely on visiting myspace to pick up free downloads from groups. These days, that doesn't seem to be as common, but facebook iLike's app does provide some free downloads. Other sites, like download.com, as well as other genre specific sites, also regularly do so. And of course there are occasionaly singles available on itunes for free.

    It would be great if there was one site which was sort of a 'clearing house' for any legit free music download on the internet. That would be a great invention! And of course, the legit internet radio sites are another wonderful source to at least hear the music (even if I can't put it on a personal machine for later enjoyment).

  24. The business model has just changed. Hurray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like with Coal in the UK, every business model has its day. Before the records existed artists earned their fare by e.g. performing or from a rich patron.

    Nowadays, kids and adults spend more money then ever on music. Only not for records. Mostly for performances, but also for subscriptions, etc. Just a technology that led to a boom, and disappeared. Artists earn not only from performances, but also by e.g. working with radio or tv stations.

    .

  25. and so is the opportunity.... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    and so is the opportunity... to screw another generation of consumers..( and perhaps the last )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  26. Its not "piracy".. by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Its just common sense.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  27. Estimation of life in some cases by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    For works published prior to 1978, and for works made for hire, "life" under United States copyright law is estimated as 25 years. But for works published prior to 1964, a maintenance fee was due in the 28th year, and this was not paid for a lot of works. "Unrenewed copyright" is the main source of relatively recent works in the United States public domain.

  28. Article is wrong about Real Record Labels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's what it will do. It'll force new individual musicians, or bands to become the record company, they'll have crappy websites, and always on the road playing venues, always rushed, and underhanded. (you try moving giant ass drumsets and amps and crap on and off a stage) Real record companies won't be going away, they have the resources to make the most kick ass art there is! It's what's on your radio, it's what's on your TV. Real people who go to shows will buy their cd, dvds, and other swag, who freaking wouldn't?! It's some of the most kick ass art there is. While it is a golden age of finding free music, it is not illegal. Lot's of bands give their music away and sell it as well. And regardless of if you think Real Record companies are going to disappear, there will always be a need for large volume publishers. And if you have kick ass product, people still will buy it, even if they are doin illegal shit on the web. Real people who go to real shows, buy real items they can hold in their hand, some even want them signed. Some don't! hehe some just go to have a place hang out and get buzzed a slam a mustard dog. That article in the BBC has some truths but don't go saying record companies are dead, that's just as stupid as saying email is dead, it's having trouble, but it ain't dead. Also note I didn't say record companies are not effected by the crap going on in our monetary system. I've seen record companies disappear. I've seen their three phase steam powered stamper equipment for sale on ebay! Not everything is all about big record companies either. Some small bands or individuals would never need so much overhead, muscle and resources as a big label can provide them, their feng shui would be off and they can't begin to handle such forces like success, planning, acting and such. There's a reason some make it big. They kick ass. They work hard. Don't forget that. I ain't even judging the Article writer at the BBC, but just don't forget that. The Article writer at the BBC said stuff mostly about bands I don't even care about for one thing. Does he even consider Labels like Century Media, Magnatune? Kind of opposite ends of the spectrum, but come on, this is trash. I will admit some of his article has merit, but not the "Hoot-ing hoot hoot dying die die big label" crap again.

    Go put on some pants and protest soda or something fuck..

  29. bobintetley is mistaken. by tepples · · Score: 1

    Copyright covers the expression of an idea, not the idea itself.

    Melodies are expressions.

    That's why recordings of songs get copyright protection, but not the songs themselves.

    In the language of U.S. copyright statute, your statement is written "That's why sound recordings are subject to copyright, but not musical works." The letter of the law contradicts you.

    1. Re:bobintetley is mistaken. by bobintetley · · Score: 1

      Did you even read what you linked to?

      (a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

      It then even goes on to say:

      (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.

      How does that contradict what I said?

    2. Re:bobintetley is mistaken. by tepples · · Score: 1

      Once committed to sheet music, the sequence of notes that makes up a song is an "original work[] of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression". Case law over the past two centuries has established that a sufficiently long sequence of notes is not an "idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery".

  30. Doing the math by tepples · · Score: 1

    Lets just for simplicity assume that you can only have 100 distinct places to place a node, assume there are only 4 distinct nodes

    Bad assumptions. Assuming eight notes of the scale and a general distinction between short and long notes, there are 16 distinct nodes. But more importantly, copyright infringement lawsuits have been won and lost over far fewer than 100 notes, closer to eight notes. See this analysis.

    1. Re:Doing the math by Dysphoric1 · · Score: 1

      Assuming eight notes

      Technically only 7 notes, as the 8th note is the first note an octave higher.

      The other thing the person you replied to neglected to take into account in addition to what you have already mentioned is that over several thousand years, music theory has worked out pretty well what sounds good and what doesn't. As such, the computer wouldn't have to crunch all combinations. It would simply focus on melodies based on only a couple of scales played over the few basic chord progressions that make up most popular music.

  31. Did He?... by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

    Did he just "think of the children" the pro-piracy side of the copyright debate??? Ok, now that's impressive. :)

  32. Piracy is not the solution... by geekmux · · Score: 1

    ...to your "problem" of availability. iTunes has done a pretty damn good job of making ALL kinds of music available to the world. So has the Internet in general, you can likely order any music you want off large portals like Amazon. You're not "smuggling" music across the border here, quit trying to justify the use of piracy like you have to. Lame excuse, regardless of how it affects the artist or not.

  33. 'Piracy' opens up the market. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love music. I continually rearrange playlists and certain combinations of songs remind me of evens in my life. I even have a dream where I win the lottery, quit my job, and become a communications major at a local university just to get a three hour slot every week playing music on the college radio station. And I'd be throwing some varied stuff in there too. Love On A Real Train by Tangarine Dream, Man I Hate Your Band by Little Man Tate, Throw Your Arms Around Me by Hunters & Collecters, Out Of The Dark by Hybrid, Big Rock Candy Mountain by Harry McClintock, Bouge De Là by MC Solaar, O Valencia! by The Decemberists... German, British, Australian, American, French, the whole nine yards regardless of genre or decade.

    And if it weren't for Lavamus.com or PirateBay or YouTube I wouldn't have access to most of this when I wanted it. My interest in music means I buy more hard copies than I think I usually would (because I wouldn't know about the bands, let alone buy their albums). I go to more events. The musicians get the money from me BECAUSE of piracy, not in spite of it.

  34. Infinite Music by AlpineR · · Score: 1

    Oh, by "infinite music" I thought they meant algorithmically generated music. Like this piece of music from the Metamath Music Page.

    A golden age for that? Were there breakthroughs in artificial neural networks I hadn't heard of? Or have musical expectations fallen just that low?

    I do wonder what would happen if you took the output from a random number generator to make a valid MP3 file and then played back that MP3 through an Autotuner.

  35. Maybe YOUR job should be a "part-time hobby"... by geekmux · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "...Music will become what it should be for most - a part time hobby."

    I see. That how you feel? I wonder if others felt the same about IT SysAdmins? I mean, hell, most of the time a good SysAdmin will spend very little time actually working on their environment once it's stable. Should that job be treated as "part-time"? Ready to take a huge pay cut?

    For some, music is their life. It's their lifes-blood. It's what they do. I don't see how you can "refuse" to buy an album from an artist, yet drop hundreds to "advertise" them. Irony, anyone? Your rebellious attitude is doing nothing but hurting the artist and the industry. When artists find that the business model is no longer a valid one due to piracy, the world will have very few artists.

    1. Re:Maybe YOUR job should be a "part-time hobby"... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Should that job be treated as "part-time"? Ready to take a huge pay cut?

      Sounds good to me. Everything becomes cheaper, we need less money to get by, we work part time and have more time for leisure.

      You must be a boss. That would explain your worldview.

    2. Re:Maybe YOUR job should be a "part-time hobby"... by Esteanil · · Score: 1

      I see. That how you feel? I wonder if others felt the same about IT SysAdmins? I mean, hell, most of the time a good SysAdmin will spend very little time actually working on their environment once it's stable. Should that job be treated as "part-time"? Ready to take a huge pay cut?

      Ah, yes. That's what's happening, haven't you noticed? It's "the Cloud". One of the major cost reductions in the cloud is the amount of SysAdmin hours you pay after it's set up and developed. The savings on hardware are small compared to the savings on people...

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
  36. Don't worry about the rock stars by ickeicke · · Score: 1

    Life + 70 means the creator's life + 70 years

    So... to give our (great?) grand-children a free world, we should be killing off all the creators now right? :)

    "Well you see son, there used to be this thing called a 'rock star', and they made music. But we had to kill them all to set the music free. It was the only way."

    I don't think we should bother too much with the rock stars, they usually kill themselves quite quickly in one way or another. Let's focus our attention on the Backstreet Boys, Miley Cyrus, etc. Then again, we should ask ourselves; is this really the kind of music we want in de public domain?

    --
    Firehed - Unfortunately, thanks to medical breakthroughs, common sense is not as common as it once was.
  37. When I was at school by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I knew loads of people who had rooms *full* of cassette tapes. You could record music off the (freely broadcast) radio and all the car boot sales sold pirate tapes.

    The idea that:

    a) Every downloaded copy is a lost sale

    and

    b) P2P has somehow changed the piracy game.

    Is ridiculous.

    Some people just copy/hoarde, period. They're not going to buy legally no matter what.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:When I was at school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew loads of people who had rooms *full* of cassette tapes. You could record music off the (freely broadcast) radio and all the car boot sales sold pirate tapes.

      The idea that:

      a) Every downloaded copy is a lost sale

      No argument here.

      and

      b) P2P has somehow changed the piracy game.

      Is ridiculous.

      P2P _has_ changed the game. Sure, I'm of an age and inclination that I tapes things off the radio, taped things off of albums y friends had, and traded mix tapes. The recording industry didn't like very much either. But there are a number of significant differences - the quality wasn't as good, the medium was limited, and the range was strictly local. Yes communities sprang up (Dead concert tapes spring to mind) that stretched the reach of some of this, and some people invested in nice equipment, but by and large it was not a widespread problem. With P2P, I can make a digitally identical copy and share it with billions of people with no effort on my part. Of course, it is perhaps misleading to say P2P here, P2P is just one of the possible digital vectors that makes the sharing easier. My main point is that if you really don't think that digital copies are any different from tapes dubbed off the radio, you a) are probably downloading from the wrong place, and b) should really stop and think about this a little more before getting further involved in this discussion. I'm not advocating or condemning piracy here, I just think that if you are going to have a productive discussion about the issues, you need to actually understand them.

  38. Only in a free and fair market by amck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This only holds true in a free and fair market: where, given a free choice, people spend their money on Britney Spears, etc.

    The reality is a music market where in practice a cartel of music companies limit choice to maximise the money made on certain artists. They prefer, instead of running 10,000 artists, to sell 10-100, advertising 10.

    Companies like Sony-BMG, etc. ceased contracts with _profitable_bands_, as they maximize their profits when marketing costs are smaller, concentrated on a small number of "superstars". The chosen artist benefitted, but mostly the record companies benefitted; the consumer lost choice, and the bands they would have purchased from lost big-time.

    For this reason, I consider the record companies anti-music, and am happy to see them go. Its only the advent of easy copying that makes them divert from this policy.

    Similar arguments hold for professional sports, unfortunately.

    --
    Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist
    1. Re:Only in a free and fair market by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      Seriously, you're going to make this argument in 2009?

      Being able to sell music in a reasonable manner hasn't been a problem for 10 years. eMusic, CD Baby, etc gladly cater to the independents, and there are ways to roll your own solution. If you make music and want to sell it, there's nothing stopping you from doing it right now. That is in my book a free and fair market.

      Just because you don't like who the industry decides to back with advertising dollars, doesn't mean that it's not a free market. People are in fact voluntarily spending their money on big-label acts like Britney Spears.

  39. Anything goes by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

    Yep, 10 years ago, 16-year olds would listen and enjoy whatever was on the radio. Now you've got 16-year olds listening to every album by Booker T. & The MG's or The Animals, and enjoying it much more than the Top 40 crap.

    This will probably have an effect we can't see very clearly yet on music making : anything goes. Think about it, until now you couldn't get a record deal if you wanted to make some kind of music that no one plays on the radio anymore. Now, it's like the whole world jumped in the giant ball pit of all the records ever made, and listening to whatever they like indiscriminately of how popular or how old it is. I think that means that a musician in any genre has now the potential to find his following, even if no one touched the genre in question for the last 40 years.

    But it doesn't stop at just a new increased demand in the more obscure genres of music. If today a 16-year old's favourite musician is Miles Davis and the likes, if ten years from now he must become a musician, what are the odds he'll want to join a rock band, and what are the odds he'll want to blow into a trumpet? That's right, he's more likely to grow into the second coming of Miles Davis, and if he's anywhere near that good, a lot of people will listen.

    This is what the mysterious future of music holds. You heard it here first!

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  40. Over at the BBC by jedigeek · · Score: 3, Funny

    I like the way this article starts with "Over at the BBC", as if Slashdot is a publication of equal professionalism and reach.

  41. Exposure? What exposure? by westlake · · Score: 1

    with the completely unknowns actually benefiting because then they get exposure--if you haven't yet proved yourself, who is gonna buy your CD?

    How do you get exposure when your music is buried under a snowdrift - smothered by the hundreds - perhaps thousands of files - from other no-name bands competing for attention?

    Making music--good music--takes time and resources.

    That it does.

    Which raises the interesting question of whether piracy hurts some musical genres - and some musicians - more than others.

    The obvious example would be the "big band" sound of a classical or jazz ensemble. Is there a place in this brave new world for a young Duke Ellington or a Louis Armstrong?

  42. I write for love. I publish for money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making music--good music--takes time and resources. Time that you can't really make money on, and instruments and (nowadays) computer equipment that is not free. Unless you sell the music you're essentially losing money, in most situations. And no matter what some slashdotters CLAIM, yes, many people will not buy albums at all just because they can get them off soulseek or bittorrent or, god forbid, limewire.

    A musician is someone who makes music even though they wouldn't be paid for it. I also once heard someone remark that a musician stops making music when they're dead.

    Music is made in pubs and jazz clubs. Music is made in churches via choirs. In university auditoriums by a cappella clubs. People make music because they like making music. Albums are convenient, but music was around before the CD and the LP. If you want to support musicians, and not the middle man that is the RIAA and record companies, go to a concert hall.

    As Nabikov remarked: I write for love. I publish for money.

    If you love music you will go to the musician and support them and not the publisher.

  43. Not infinite. by Metasquares · · Score: 1

    Like every other product of culture, music is not something that materializes out of thin air - not without someone making that air vibrate. It's a finite commodity, produced on the efforts and skills of others, and will in fact dry up as soon as the people who create it can no longer continue to do so.

  44. "Infinite Music" is coming. Musicians will hate it by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    We already have a form of "infinite music" - DJing. But so far, DJs can't do very much to the music. They can play with timing and mixing, and maybe do some scratching, but that's about it.

    Now look at Vocaloid 2. Load up a singer model, a lyrics file, and a MIDI file, and out comes reasonably good music. (It's in Japanese; this was the #1 program for sale on Amazon Japan for a while.)

    Currently, building a singer model for Vocaloid requires about a week of work by the singer. Working backwards from existing music to a vocal tract model and a style model isn't yet available. But as machine learning techniques progress, that problem should be solved.

    When a DJ has the option to play any song with any musicians, then we'll have infinite music. The day may come when musicianship will be an archaic art like calligraphy and oratory.

    (Even better, the RIAA can't stop it. These are "covers", even though they're machine-generated. You have to pay the small statutory royalty to the composer, and you owe the musician and the recording company nothing.)

  45. Economies of scale by AlpineR · · Score: 1

    I want to know where this idea has come from that making music should make you a millionaire.

    The ability to easily reproduce and distribute to a global audience.

    There are only a few "the best" in any field. If you have access to the global best, why would you want anything your local best? Thus the money chases a limited number of stars, and as the audience expands globally, the stars get richer and richer.

    Also, fame attracts fame. Especially when communication and publicity is global, a few acts will start rising and the feedback of fame will shoot them to the stars. This can concentrate attention and money on some acts, even when quality alone isn't enough to justify the focus.

    This concentration on stars actually reduces the economic viability for all the smaller artists. It becomes like professional sports. A million kids want to be a star football player. Only a handful of them will ever make money at it, but because the dollar amounts are so huge it drives them all to work at it for free.

    How would you solve this in the music industry? If you cut the money across the board, then you cut off the pipeline of struggling artists that produce the stars. If the local artists can't even make a little money moonlighting as musicians, then they'll have a hard time surviving long enough to get good and famous. And if there's not a chance of a big payoff, then they won't even try. Saying that an artist is unjustified in making $10 from an album just because it can be mass produced for less, means that any artist who's not already being mass produced never will.

    Making music takes an incredible amount of time and effort. There has to be some economic incentive to make it happen or else the potential musicians will be too busy struggling with the other necessities of life. If you want to have thriving small-time musicians around the world, then ban the Internet, television, radio, and records.

  46. Disappointing Post by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    I thought from the title "The Golden Age of Infinite Music" was going to be about technology to find and play or even generate music a person would like forever... or something like that. Instead it is basically about consumerism and leads into a tired debate on "property" rights.

    So I would like to see something less depressing-- software that removes the need for artists to generate the largely uncreative music that is promoted by the record industry. The death of that industry by AI artistic software. The issues involved when somebody lays claim to the products of their software's random-like output or if it generates something too similar to part of some existing song; having no consciousness to be able to infringe. This could lead into bit streams of data and how silly it is to own one .... or how we decide what is similar etc. leading into the same old tired debates...

  47. The future of music by Twinbee · · Score: 1

    Indie music won't completely take off, until anyone can quickly and efficiently submit MP3s to giant (and reasonable) outlets such as Amazon MP3, and have them for sale that minute. Something like submitting videos to Youtube, but for selling music instead.

    It wouldn't be necessary, but a rating system in place such as the type from reddit.com would help to filter out the crud music, though of course, one could still find the crud if one wanted to.

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  48. Re:"Infinite Music" is coming. Musicians will hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The day may come when musicianship will be an archaic art like calligraphy and oratory. "

    I don't think that will happen.

    It is a little like CGI verses actors in movies. You can spend thousands of hours tweaking a computer animation, or you could just get an actor to read the lines in a couple of minutes.
    The same with computer simulations of musicians. In the end it takes a very long time to put any realistic expression into a part by programming, and the result is always a little ersatz.

    When recording, I often wish I could just get a string section in to play a part rather than have to deal with the endless twiddling and midi programming people do to get something that still sounds like robots. It's actually often cheaper to use real players, for two reasons: first they can make it sound good by musical interpretation of the part! and second it forces people to write the damn parts *before* they get to the studio!

    I have nothing against sequencing and synths and samplers (i love them) but many people who have *only* programmed don't realise that there are sometimes very good reasons for using real players, and it's not necessaryly more expensive.

  49. Re:"Infinite Music" is coming. Musicians will hate by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 1

    Calligraphy is a subset skill of good graphic designers.
    So the art hasn't died.

    Oratory is a subset skill of any influential diplomat or politician.

    So there.

    Music may become a subset skill of something else greater or higher. But it won't die off.

    To be a good musician - you will still have to learn the theory and then practise.

    Just like:

    To be a good graphic designer - it helps to understand some of the concepts employed in calligraphy / kerning / brush textures .. etc

    And I bet many politicians lusting for power : study hours on end - verbal debating skills. Are coached, buy books on the subject and so on (eg Oratory)

  50. Well... by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

    One thing that is both true and interesting here is that many people download because they cannot purchase. Not due to lack of funds, but availability. Unless they go to import stores *and* wait several months for said stores to get the latest foreign album, people who enjoy foreign music have no option aside from illegal downloading. Or buying foreign itunes gift cards. Personally I wish places like itunes opened up earlier. The main reason I stopped buying CDs is so many of them would have, at most, 2 songs I enjoyed listening too. And singles always cost *more* than compilation albums, usually became they came bundled with DVDs of the concert or something else I never wanted.

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
  51. another example of COPYRIGHT being a bad thing. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

    The original 1790 Copyright Act was saner. 14 years with possibility of renewal, for 28 years max. That's reasonable length of time for a monopoly, and it gives the artist plenty of opportunity to recoup his labor costs via sale of the book/song.

    So... Rickrolling should remain illegal in the US until my kids start college, gotcha. And what happens when different countries or localles do not apply the same copyright dates? Do you have to register for renewal in every major country? I could see someone writing a song, renewing at 14 years, but it goes public domain elsewhere.. someone else remixes it. Is the remix illegal to sell or own in the US?

    The facts are simple, and the berne convention flouts the facts. Thanks to the internet, all media is globally distributable at condiment cost. More importantly than "how do you globally guarantee a monopoly" is "how do you prevent a globally-protected monopoly from running amok"? Telling big media it only gets to monopolize a slice of global mindshare for 28 or 14 or 2 years is like telling a mugger he can only have your wallet, not your car keys.

    Let me ask you this: What value is the public domain? Why enrich it at all? If you're only going to dump 30 year old material into it, it must not be worth very much to you. Once you support copyright for a short period, it is bureaucratic folly not to support it perpetually. Who cares if today's boy band music leaves copyright in 2037 or 2129?

    Abolish copyright. Artists can publish their work and use it's popularity to gain exposure instead of hypodermicly injecting it into the global cultural pantheon and then laying financial claim to everything it touches and charging to licence fleeting control to consumers over and how and when it is replayed. Artists can make money by marketing directly to fans and constructing dominant assurance contracts to have their work financed for original release. Once released, it is free for anyone in possession to share on their own terms. Word spreads about the agreeable material, hooking more fans into ponying up to finance the next album, or go to the next show in their area, buy physical merchandise, etc etc.

    Claiming you need copyright to finance costs you incur today is a form of speculative temporal bargaining just as bad debt financing: speculating that enough money will come in to cover todays costs you charge to a credit card or a gambling addiction: speculating that you'll hit the jackpot to cover the quarters you're putting in the machine now. It's equally as habit-forming and dangerous too. Artists must learn to live within their means and finance todays costs today. You should arrange to be paid for completing the work, not for fleecing the global public for chances to share in hearing your canned, now zero-cost to redistribute product.

    In the meantime I refuse to co-sign for your bad business model and I'll bittorrent whatever god damned content I see fit, because I and arbitrary third parties on the internet have every right to share whatever generic digital data we choose.

    --
    People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  52. Do you have public libraries in Brazil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RE: "And I'm sorry, but I won't stop listening to music or reading books just because I don't have money to buy them."

    In the US everyone can read, listen to music, watch movies, etc. for free - at a public or school library if nowhere else. I imagine this is the case in many first world countries, but I acknowledge it may not be the same in Brazil.

    On the other hand, there are over 20,000 books available for free on the Internet (Project Gutenberg, etc.) Many are classics. Sure - most are in English, but many have been or are being translated. Your English seems good - perhaps you can translate some into your native language?

    Maybe you can't have everything, and exactly what you want - but few of us can you know. Most of us get by with some of our first choices, and then some secondary ones.

    In any case the amount of free culture available is astounding. And you can create your own too.

    If you want to pirate, then pirate. But don't make up excuses.

  53. Re:"Infinite Music" is coming. Musicians will hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck are you talking about? Musicianship is writing and playing music. Even in your dystopian future where "DJ"s pipe MIDI to crappy sample models and call it music, they're still composing. Which means they're musicians.

    Unless they aren't composing, just playing old songs with different models. If that's what you have in mind, then yeah, musicianship is dead, and the future is going to be incredibly dull. Whatever the case, I hope like hell you're wrong.

  54. Publicity is EXPENSIVE by Alarindris · · Score: 1

    These days it is very cheap to record or synthesize music in your home. All you need is a desktop computer, nice monitors and some nice mics.

    By FAR the hardest and most expensive part of being successful is the publicity end. The little guys need all the help they can get in that department, and giving away music for free is probably the easiest/cheapest way to do that

    IAAM and I gladly put my music up for free and seed my own torrents. It's the cheapest way to a sale with zero effort.

  55. Rule of the shorter term, but not in USA by tepples · · Score: 1

    So... Rickrolling should remain illegal in the US until my kids start college, gotcha. And what happens when different countries or localles do not apply the same copyright dates?

    Some countries, such as the United States, recognize the domestic copyright term for foreign works. Some other countries observe the "rule of the shorter term", in which copyright in a foreign work expires the earlier of when it expires in the home country and when it would have expired had it been a domestic work.

    Artists can make money by marketing directly to fans

    In practice, until mobile broadband becomes much cheaper, FM radio stations will continue to have all the market power over this sort of promotion.

    and constructing dominant assurance contracts

    These alternative business models might work for music, but what should artists do who are in fields other than music that have gatekeepers? For example, say I develop video games in genres not ideal for PC (that is, not RTS or an M-rated FPS), and the console makers don't want to deal with me because I'm small potatoes.

    go to the next show in their area

    Unless the genre of music appeals to kids or teens, and most of the venues that allow indie bands are bars, which in some states don't allow even accompanied minors in the door.

    1. Re:Rule of the shorter term, but not in USA by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      In practice, until mobile broadband becomes much cheaper, FM radio stations will continue to have all the market power over this sort of promotion.

      Hmm, is this because pre-recorded media has to be delivered to me in realtime? If my car radio or Ipod downloads days or even weeks worth of podcasts of great music for me when docked or near my home wifi, it's just not as enjoyable? I can't download what looks interesting and play it on shuffle when I want? Ipods (and most other digital music products) got pretty crazy popular before any sort of FM tuners were made available for them.

      For example, say I develop video games in genres not ideal for PC (that is, not RTS or an M-rated FPS), and the console makers don't want to deal with me because I'm small potatoes.

      I don't see how that is any different with or without copyright. Either the console maker controls the bits so heavily piracy isn't possible to begin with and lack of copyright is a non-issue to their business model, or if copying is possible then you can use assurance contracts to market to the would-be pirates. In either case, any requirement to go through a gatekeeper means they may not like you. Having copyright doesn't make that any easier on small developers, neither does lacking it.

      Unless the genre of music appeals to kids or teens, and most of the venues that allow indie bands are bars, which in some states don't allow even accompanied minors in the door.

      Don't weep about chicken and the egg to me, there isn't money in indie music because of the public blowing it's budget on copyrighted albums. There aren't venues available because there is no money to fund them. Release the revenue that big media presently has control over and there will be tons of fans in whatever genre with cash who want to spend it hearing live music. There will be tons of cash available to justify the real estate and management needed to keep the venues open. Hell, big media would probably even finance it if they've recently lost copyright and expect to keep any of their infrastructure intact. :P

      Let me put it this way: Big media makes billions annually. They do this selling canned content that should have no resale value. Stop the price fixing and you get billions in the hands of fans who can begin spending that money on something it takes real value to provide (live music at venues, merchandise, financing new music) instead of mylar disks that get stamped at less than a penny a pop.

      You also get more people getting out more often to do more socializing, financing more opportunities to do so. You get new artists doing more mixing of existing media to create more media less expensively without running afoul of counterproductive laws. More content, less expensive, lower bars to entry, lower upkeep to produce and distribute. Anyone can participate in whatever capacity they would like.

      Or we can just sit back and allow the powerful to consolidate greater power by laying property claims over the sum of all human knowledge while we continue passively clinging to the corporate teat. That approach has it's merits too, I guess. :/

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  56. Any assurance contract providers? by tepples · · Score: 1

    is this because pre-recorded media has to be delivered to me in realtime?

    I know several people who live in an area not served by cable or DSL. Almost nobody will stay connected to dial-up for one hour just to download a 30-minute music podcast.

    If my car radio or Ipod downloads days or even weeks worth of podcasts of great music for me when docked or near my home wifi, it's just not as enjoyable?

    Is the ability to download music standard equipment on recent cars, or is it an expensive aftermarket option? I've seen a lot of car radios with a CD player and a radio and no line in, or a CD player, a radio, and a tape player that ejects all line-in adapters.

    if copying is possible then you can use assurance contracts to market to the would-be pirates.

    Do you know of any firm that specializes in administering such assurance contracts?

    1. Re:Any assurance contract providers? by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      I know several people who live in an area not served by cable or DSL. Almost nobody will stay connected to dial-up for one hour just to download a 30-minute music podcast.

      Hello tepples, my name is Jesse. I am the systems administrator for a wireless high speed internet service provider in Oregon who at present count guarantees broadband service to just under 1,100 households and businesses that either cannot or choose not to subscribe to the local DSL (Qwest) or Cable (BendBroadband) duopoly.

      While there are people without internet service for any of a laundry list of reasons (expense in their area, computer illiteracy/luddite, etc) that number is decimated on a regular basis. I would wager that at present the number of people in the US lacking internet is smaller than the number of people who never listen to broadcast radio; not least of which because the only channels you get are Clearchoice, religious, and foreign language.

      Again, my argument is not that "FM is (entirely) dead (yet)", nor that an insufficient number of people listen to FM, only that we drown in perfectly market worthy alternatives many of which are only complicated to take advantage of thanks to the chilling effects of copyright.

      Is the ability to download music standard equipment on recent cars, or is it an expensive aftermarket option? I've seen a lot of car radios with a CD player and a radio and no line in, or a CD player, a radio, and a tape player that ejects all line-in adapters.

      If you were an auto-maker, would you chance flirting with business models that run afoul copyright and the current power of big media? I say "eliminate copyright and embrace open innovation" and you come back with "whanh, the corporate overlords and automakers keep PURPOSELY SPITTING OUT my line-in adapters because they want me to cling to the teat of whatever they feed me via FM".

      Presently, being a pirate (including listening to music in your car when you've probably only been "licensed" to listen to it on your desktop computer) takes a modicum of effort. Maybe an aftermarket stereo (who cares about music and doesn't get one of those, again?) or maybe a $20 FM tuner when you can't get a line-in to work. I can't believe this country used to thrive fixing their own stage coach wheels, and now you feel uncomfortable controlling what sound comes out of your oem tape deck.

      In any event, never fear. Where there is market demand and safety from legal repercussion, there will be droves of businesses seeking to make a dime helping you listen to podcasts in your car. Again, help us clear the path or go back to the teat.

      Do you know of any firm that specializes in administering such assurance contracts?

      Shout out to the Contingency Market! Keep in mind they are not Your Lawyer, but then again nobody is but Your Lawyer. Contingency Market is a web service that allows individuals to easily maintain, automate, and keep track of contracts and commitments including assurance contracts. The legalese of the contract itself is outside the scope of this service, but this is an important step in the right direction.

      It is more challenging to build a critical mass of demand in order to underwrite a financing infrastructure independent of copyright while the antiquated law still looms, stacking the deck in favor of whoever can afford the least scrupulous legal teams. But that is one of my goals: to illustrate life beyond copyright so that those who may benefit from exploring it will let go their death hold over a tradition that presently does them (not to mention everyone else) inestimable harm.

      I value my ability to communicate whatever I please with whomever I please. I value my communication and transaction channels being private and tamper-resistant. One of the few excuses that government and big busin

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    2. Re:Any assurance contract providers? by tepples · · Score: 1

      wireless high speed internet service provider

      I had forgotten about WiMAX, or at least was unaware of actual deployments in the States. But then one still has to 1. want to escape Clear Channel, and 2. buy an MP3 player.

      If you were an auto-maker, would you chance flirting with business models that run afoul copyright and the current power of big media?

      I wouldn't, but it appears the actual automakers do. They segment the market between people who are willing to pay extra for an upgraded radio (who get line in) and people who are not (who are stuck with FM). The situation improves with unlicensed micropower FM transmitters, which have been legal to operate for longer in the United States (under 47 CFR Part 15.B) than in Great Britain.

      Shout out to the Contingency Market

      Thank you. I will look at this.