Norwegian Court Rules ISP Doesn't Have To Block The Pirate Bay

C4st13v4n14 writes "In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday, a Norwegian District Court handed down the decision that Telenor, Norway's largest ISP, will not have to block access to The Pirate Bay. Telenor was sued earlier this year by the IFPI after being threatened and not backing down. 'The court ruled that Telenor is not contributing to any infringements of copyright law when its subscribers use The Pirate Bay, and therefore there is no legal basis for forcing the ISP to block access to the site. ... In making its decision, the court also had to examine the repercussions if it ruled that Telenor and other ISPs had to block access to certain websites.'"

Comments

I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[MrLeap]

Why is norway always ahead of the curve in nearly everything?

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Nuno Sa]

It's cold there... Anyway it's nice to see that some countries have not fallen for the global brainwashing taking place today around the world.

Congrats to them!
(It's here, the dark ages began: we have to congratulate common sense)

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[haruchai]

Cold weather, hot women, health care, and common sense. If their food is any good, maybe I'll move also

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[dgatwood]

Four out of five isn't bad, I suppose. *sigh*

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[saladpuncher]

Norway is excellent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/norway-best-place-to-live_n_309698.html and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGTzbj3fRSw and yes, hot women

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[mark_hill97]

I beg to differ

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

In a sudden outbreak of uncommon sense yesterday..

I shall be a bit pedantic that this isn't the first time the Norwegian courts actually use reason and rational assessment before issuing a verdict.

A man was taken to court for uploading a pirated version of the Norwegian movie "Falne Engler" and was let go with a warning. This and the fact that Kripos (special investigation unit) refused to "waste resources" investigating illegal file sharing (though also because of the current Norwegian law makes it difficult to prosecute anyone for file sharing); has members of the Norwegian movie/music/whatever lobby fuming.
Rudimentary translated quote from Ketil Haukaas, assistant chief of Kripos
We have dedicated investigators in some areas, like war crimes and internet related abuse of children. File sharing doesn't not warrant that kind of priority

Vi har dedikerte etterforskere på noen områder, som krigsforbrytelser og internettrelaterte overgrep mot barn. Problemområdet fildeling tilsier ikke en slik prioritet at det er en fornuftig vei å gå

Up to the point that article was written (in 2008) 182 reports of illegal file sharing had been delivered by IFPI; four were investigated and the only case "solved" was the one I mentioned earlier where the perpetrator was let go with a warning.

So this "out break of common sense" wasn't exactly sudden.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

From the Huffingtonpost article "Norway's consistently high rating for desirable living standards, is, in large part, the result of the discovery of offshore oil and gas deposits in the late 1960s."

What isn't mentioned is that when oil and gas were discovered the Norwegian government decided to nationalize those resources (meaning state owned and operated) as the profit from such industry should benefit all the citizens of Norway. They then proceeded to borrow tons of money from various other nations with security in future revenue and spent that money (and the mentioned future revenue; now past and present revenue) to invest heavily in infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads and etc). Also they offered public scholarships and decent student loans to everyone with the grades to get into a University; as a highly educated population was, and is, seen as beneficial to Norwegian society.

Norway, as the other nations of Scandinavia (to a varying degree); are Social democracies (as in Socialist Democracies); which is held, at least by the center->left side of politics (and to be fair some on the right in Norway are to the left of those on the left in nations like the US) as the reason for our high standard of living up to this point.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[u38cg]

Check out the price of beer first though. They didn't get everything *quite* right...

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[sopssa]

Exactly, and it's the same in all scandinavian countries (for all alcohol). Majority comes from the insane taxation of alcohol, which is supposed to increase general health.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[C4st13v4n14]

Hi, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things about Norway here. I've done this before, you can see a rather lengthy post about Norway here. I hope you find it useful in your immigration plans or at least interesting. I wrote uncommon sense when I posted the article because Norway has the habit of banning everything and making life really boring. Some things do make sense, and I really think my home country, the good old USA, could learn a lot from them. If you've been following the Norwegian news at all, you'll find that Norwegian judges and politicians try to do what they think is best for the people. They're not by any means pro-pirate, but they refuse to give into pressure from big business to make decisions that will compromise the freedom of the people. This is one thing I like about my new home.

I moved to Norway a little more than two years ago. I'm a doctor here, working as a GP/family doctor, I'm originally from the United States. I meet hundreds of Norwegians every week, a new one about every 20 minutes for 9-10 hours a day, so I feel if there's one thing I can comment on, it's the people. In submitting the article, I called it uncommon sense. This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs. The fines are so stiff that it scares people into even trying something new or foreign. Take driving, for instance, they are so afraid of going over the speed limit that they drive under it. Norwegian speed limits are notoriously low for the conditions. A straight divided highway in the middle of nowhere will have a speed limit of 80 kph (about 49 mph) and people will drive 70. It drives me insane, especially because I've just switched jobs and have to commute 130 km a day. Turns a 30 min drive into almost an hour. In areas where it's safe and legal to pass, people freak out and call the police because it's something people don't really have the balls to do. I've gotten pulled over a few times for "impolite driving". I know, it sounds ridiculous.

Norway is quite isolated both geographically and socially. This has created a national suspicious and xenophobic attitude towards foreigners and new things. They were also in "unions" with Denmark and Sweden for hundreds of years, which is why they are very nationalistic and haven't joined the European Union. Up until around the 1970s, which is when they found oil, they were little more than farmers without any higher education or purpose. There weren't even roads connecting all the different parts of Norway until the mid 20th century, which is why more than 100 dialects of the Norwegian language survive until today and make learning the Norwegian language difficult. They didn't know a thing about oil so they enlisted an American company to help them find the reserves under the sea and develop the industry. Now they're the richest country in the world. They've avoided the mistakes of other countries and invested the money. Now they're the richest country in the world in terms of money in the bank. They invested a lot of money in socialism, which is why Norwegians don't really worry about anything and have a pretty relaxed attitude towards everything because they're always taken care of.

Health care is also something I can comment on due to my profession, and I believe I've done so here.

Norwegian women are typically not hot. They also suffer from what I call Norway's form of "Westernism". Many of them don't really watch their weight or what they eat. The hot ones know they're hot. Contemporary Norwegian women have also a peculiar trait I'd never seen before moving here, they are much stronger than the Norwegian men and have most of the power in a relationship. This isn't true of the older generation. I lived in Eastern Europe for several years between the US and Norway and those women are the hottest in t

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Dachannien]

Actually, I thought the dominant /. dogma was that artists actually should be fairly compensated for what they do, but also that million-dollar judgments in favor of record companies against Joe Schmoe Filesharer doesn't have anything to do with that.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Us Norwegians really come out in full on slashdot whenever we're mentioned, don't we.

Anyway, we have to realize that much of our "success" has been pure luck, in the form of the above mentioned oil. I for one am not so sure how well our social democracy will fare once the oil runs out. It's a fantastic place to live while it lasts, but when it ends there's no substantial source of income to replace it with.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Mascot]

It should be added, that since then we have barely spent any money on roads (cars are evil, we should all be waiting for trains that never run instead).

Which means we're juddering along on roads with 1960s standards much of the time.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds like you live somewhere out in the sticks and have not been able to fit in. You almost sound a little bitter.

I have lived in Oslo for the past ten years and what you are describing is unfamiliar to me. It's like I should move to Arkansas and write a generalization of the US based on my experiences there.

Specifically;
- The women are often very hot and generally take good care of themselves. But they can be quite stuck up and demanding.
- It is not true that they were just uneducated farmers before the oil. They had one of the worlds largest fleets long before that.
- It is true that the prices are high, but not compared to their income. Their PPP is one of the highest in the world.
- Most people dont want the EU because the country is so wealthy there is very little the EU can offer. I dont think Xenophoby comes into it
- "They invested a lot of money in socialism" .. What does that even mean? Are you talking about the welfare state?
- "This is because Norway generally bans everything and brainwashes its people to become suspicious little watch dogs." - I cant think what you mean with this. Norwat is pretty liberal compared to the country you come from. (Except for alcohol and speed limits)

Mod parent down

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Sheen]

I do not know where in norway you live, but what you describe...doesnt sound like the same country i live in, here in western norway ( bergen ) people push the speedlimit, average speed on a 80 kph highway is about 85, police wont bother you until you're over 90-95. The same city in question, has historicly been a major trading city, even before americas was discovered ( Hanseatic League 1200 AD->), and is still one of the most visited ports in the world, in trade and in tourism. There has also been allot of cultural trade ever since the vikings headed over to England to have some fun. The food. You can basicly get the exact same food here, that you can get in every other european country, and the food is -cheaper- in norway, then in any other country in europe, if you compare it with the wages we get here. ( you make about 23us$ an hour working at Mcdonalds.) So offcourse food has to be expencive, people who work at slaughterhouses and shops needs to get payed too. If you dont like that you can make 60 000 us$ a year working at McDonalds, while you as a MD make about 100 000us$ a year , too bad, move back to US where there are more social differences, and therefore, crime. Cant even understand why you would live here, if it bothers you that much.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hasdikarlsam]

As studies show (and yes, I've read the studies; they make sense), it does.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Have Brain Will Rent]

Bacon makes everything good.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[bogjobber]

That's not really as constant as you make it seem. In many countries that have cheap booze and very tolerant attitudes toward alcohol people get drunk like crazy (Spain, UK being examples) while others do not. I'm sure if alcohol prices dropped in Scandinavian countries there would be more drinking, but cultural factors are probably more important.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

Its the perfect country, the problem is that its infested by smug norwegians.. /love from sweden

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Khenke]

I'm from Sweden and have on and off for 20 years been thinking of moving to Norway
A move for me would be easy, as we are close neighbors and a lot like each others. I understand them speaking and they me (almost like US and UK english).

Why have I been thinking about a move?
Several reasons.
Easier to get a job than i Sweden (I been in IT for my whole life) is one reason.
They actually go in the right direction in the development of their country. Sweden implements more and more stupid laws, so soon we have zero freedom here.
The people a very nice and pleasant, like the northern Sweden.
It's really expensive in Norway, but the salary are higher. It's a chock for us in Sweden to have foreigners come here and buy cheep, as we tend to go to Denmark or Germany for our shopping (not only alcohol).

For me Norway is what Sweden SHOULD be. We are going down in the top list of most educated, best welfare, healthcare and so on while they go the other way. They have always been our "small" brother and they have been looking up to us, but that have changed and we are now looking up to them.
Our politicians are almost as corrupt as in the US, when they in Norway somehow has been able to resist getting sick with power.

If only illegal file sharing was my only concern, there a cheep 100% secure solutions for $10/month that fixes that for me. But I'm soon living in something worse than a police state, a corporation state where Hollywood companies have more rights that I do.
I like my Fon hotspot, but soon I risk going to jail for what others do on it. Soon the state will know where I am 100% of the time (tracking my credit card, mobile phone, SMS, email and so on), and soon there after all the Hollywood companies will have the same information. One of our courts has already broken our constitution with no reprimand what so ever (forcing ISP to dissconnect the Pirate Bay site is not legal in Sweden due to Mere Conduit).

We in the western world are going for a second Dark Ages very fast, but most people are blind to what are happening or just don't care. I guess that in 20 years china will have to take on our political refugees...
One of the few country's resisting is Norway, that is the reason I'm very much thinking about moving there now. And that almost every Norwegian girl I have met has been lovely and sweet don't make it worse.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[C4st13v4n14]

It's interesting to me that every single person I've ever met in Norway who lives in Oslo regards the rest of Norway as "the sticks". I have lived in three different parts of Norway, Oslo being one of them. I'm from a large city and Oslo was more like a village than city. I didn't even know how to describe it before a Norwegian called it that. Oslo is okay, there are things happening there and interesting people, there are good restaurants, shops, bars, clubs, cinemas. People outside of Oslo tell me "Oslo is not Norway" whilst people from Oslo tell me "Norway is Oslo". It's all your point of view. I'm reporting on my experiences alone. I have quite a few friends here, but they're all foreigners. I am not intellectually stimulated by Norwegians at the least. The conversations doctors have at lunch revolve around one or two topics. At this time of year, it's cross country skiing. I work with four other doctors in a practice and all we can talk about at lunch is that or swineflu. It was the same when I was working at a major hospital.

The women, in perfect honesty, beat out most American women almost every single time. But I've travelled extensively and I have lived in many places, not just here and in Eastern Europe. The women here pale in comparison to most other European women. Take another country I've lived in, a small one called Iceland. The people there are spectacular. I love them to death. The women? Absolutely fabulous. They refer to Norwegian women as "burger butts". They are a very open and warm people who speak English very well. I felt very accepted there. The bad? Well, they're broke for one. Also, it's impossible to get a job there.

One pet peeve of mine here in Norway is that about 90% of Norwegians don't even try to pronounce my typical English name correctly. When I introduce myself, many of them look down and say "ja vel" (translation: um, okay). It often seems like a put down a lot of the time because many people I have daily dealings with repeatedly mispronounce it. Please. It's a very easy name to pronounce. I've been told that the reason for this is that Norwegians don't like to make mistakes, so they won't try to pronounce my name right for fear of that. When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name. About 30% are embarrassed and try to say it. 10% are just happy I'm there and enthusiastic about getting seen. 10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you. That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other. I feel like I have good contact with and form a bond with a very small percentage of my patients. There's a good book that describes the people here exactly. I read it in German, the title was Pferden stehlen (Stealing Horses). It might be that in English. Anyway, at one point in the story it's summer and a guy moves into a house out in the country. He looks out his window and sees his neighbour's house and says to himself "hmmm, I think I'll drop by and say hello after Christmas." Haha. To me, that's unbelievable. It takes people here a very long time to warm up to you and people are very happy to stay in the same job in the same place for 30 years. It's almost admired. Someone like me who likes to see the world, experience different cultures, and meet different people are seen with suspicion. I think that having an understand or at least experience with many different cultures is an asset. People here don't see it like that. Since people here travel very little aside from countries like Turkey, Greece, and Spain, they really have nothing to talk about with me.

The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or loo

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[IrquiM]

I'm sorry, but you're not describing the Norway I live in. I work with a lot of foreign people from all over the world, and their opinion is quite the opposite of what you're saying.

The only part you got correct is the fear of EU, which is mostly just people that doesn't know what they're arguing against.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Khenke]

Lucky us non english speaking people you american's would never insult us if we spell of pronounce anything wrong. And we really look up to how you treat Mexican/Indian/Chinese/Black/European/Arab/Poor/African people.
And we are really thankful for everything you push on us since we don't understand better.

I wish we was so open and understanding as you are. I'm really trying as you can see, but forgive me if I'm not good enough.
 

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Narpak]

Anyway, we have to realize that much of our "success" has been pure luck, in the form of the above mentioned oil. I for one am not so sure how well our social democracy will fare once the oil runs out. It's a fantastic place to live while it lasts, but when it ends there's no substantial source of income to replace it with.

The presence of oil and gas and the benefit to the Norwegian economy could be said to be luck; how that profit was managed was not however. Though I do agree that the oil have made our nation somewhat more complacent than we should.

However at this point oil export is about half the total exports of the country which is fairly substantial; but we are by no means without other "sources of income". Though I shall agree that some of our other industries have been neglected as our focus was on oil and gas. There are room for expansion and I do not fear our nations economical future as we have access to other resources and a large potential for growth in several sectors. And our most important asset is a very high average educational level (though it should be driven ever higher).

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Lavene]

When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name.

This might be the reason: We hate foreign doctors. So when you introduce yourself they're going "Oh fuck... another one of those!" And the reason we hate foreign doctors is that they don't understand when they really need to.

It is not racism, it has nothing to do with skin color or anything. If you had been a carpenter or a tram driver no one would care. But as a doctor we need to talk to you. Not only that; you need to understand us if we one day is really sick, in horrible pain and speak with a dialect that's almost incomprehensible even for the locals. So when we shake hands with a foreign doctor, either his name is Singh or Jhonny, we go "Fuck!" in our mind hoping there will be a Norwegian doctor available to save us at the hospital after you have failed to understand what we try to say.

It doesn't matter how well you think you know Norwegians, or even how well you speak Norwegian. Because we have all met with the foreign doctor from hell. The doctor that pretend to understand everything, maybe he even think he does. But when you are at the pharmacy to pick up the prescription you get painkillers instead of birthcontrol pills. And you are that doctor... until you prove otherwise.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Tubal-Cain]

That does NOT mean they are entitled to write a single book or song in their 20s, and then sit on their ass for the rest of their lives.

Entitled? No. But if their work is good enough that they earn enough money to do so in only a few years of copyright protection (J. K. Rowling), so be it.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[Tubal-Cain]

Who cares about beer? I want to know the prices of caffeinated beverages.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[hkmwbz]

I am not intellectually stimulated by Norwegians at the least. The conversations doctors have at lunch revolve around one or two topics.

Maybe you are just hanging around with the wrong crowd. It seems odd to describe 4-5 million Norwegian based on a bunch of rich dudes around a table.

Take another country I've lived in, a small one called Iceland. The people there are spectacular. I love them to death. The women? Absolutely fabulous. They refer to Norwegian women as "burger butts".

Burger butts? Sounds like you are making stuff up as you go along.

They are a very open and warm people who speak English very well.

That's odd, because Norwegians are well known for their English skills. I don't have the same experience with people from Iceland.

One pet peeve of mine here in Norway is that about 90% of Norwegians don't even try to pronounce my typical English name correctly. ... I've been told that the reason for this is that Norwegians don't like to make mistakes, so they won't try to pronounce my name right for fear of that. When I take a patient into my office for a consultation, about 50% react in the stereotypical xenophobic way when I shake their hands and introduce myself as their doctor and tell them my name.

Ok, so because they are afraid to make a mistake when pronouncing your name, they are xenophobic?

10% get it right and become interested in me as a person and ask me where I'm from. I'm of course not here to be asked where I'm from, but it's nice once in a while when someone takes an interest in you.

As an American, you should know that Americans are among the most superficial people on the planet. Americans don't ask because they really care. Seriously. You of all people should know that. Norwegians seem to be less happy about superficial small-talk.

That's a major issue in this culture. I haven't figured out if it's egotism or what, but no one seems interested in each other.

Or maybe they just aren't as superficial as Americans generally are?

The other thing that gets me about this first 50% of people who see me with suspicion or look down on me is that no matter what I do, they will always think that they're better than me and I will never be accepted.

How do you know that they look down on you? And how are these people who look down on you anyway?

they don't get much exposure to the outside world

Apart from their media being completely dominated by foreign productions, you mean? Especially American movies and music.

All of the foreigners I've met here have the same things to say about it, especially my American countrymen.

Funny, I have the opposite experience. One has to wonder why you feel the need to invent these things.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway

[jesset77]

And there are even more extreme positions than that - such as that as soon as a copyrighted work is sold once, then anybody else can make money from it, the copyright holder losing any exclusive right to it.

No, this point is about as extreme as you can get without first violating privacy rights. Artist can make money on first sale. How else would the work make it into the public to begin with? You cannot P2P what's physically not available to you.

Once it is in the public however, then whomsoever chooses may share the data with the rest of the world at virtually zero cost and it takes the enforcement of global treaties and suspension of civil liberties to stop them.

In any event, this is the hill I defend. Artists should make money *creating* things, not selling copies of them or saying who anywhere in the world can or cannot make money re-selling or re-mixing the work they have already released into the public. The entire corpus of human knowledge is presently copyrighted, and no new creative work can be constructed save from elements that already exist; virtually all of which are already copyrighted or trademarked. It's simply time for this to stop.

Besides, how do artists make money from copy rights anyway? By selling their rights to litigious big media, of course, and becoming debt-bonded "celebrities".

But I'll head back to your original point. Perhaps royalties aren't immoral, and hourly wages really are an insult. I'll bet McDonalds workers would love that, instead of buying the burger you pay royalties to everyone who helped make the burger: grill person, person who assembled the sandwhich, wrapped it, and person who presented it to you on a tray. Let's not forget the farmers who raised the cows and the wheat, the slaughterhouse that turned the cow into ground beef and the mill that processed the wheat and lord knows what else into a bun. Read off the big mac song to see who else you have to pay. And they all earn a percentage cut on everything you do with the underwhelming boost of energy you get after eating the burger.

Suddenly, there is so much more incentive for these lowly employees to make better food; they profit directly from it! I'll bet the would all invest more TLC (and methamphetamines ;D) into your daily meal.

OO

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the link to send a donation to the judge?

Re:OO

[chibiace]

404 link not found.
no wonder we won ;)
id like to know how man judges are bribed to "fight" "piracy".

Re:OO

[gzipped_tar]

Finally, we've caught the infidel who has been bribing judges in all free countries in order harm the honest, starving capitalists! It's Anonymous Coward! Someone get him NOW! Think of the music industry!!1!

Pirate Bay?

[boudie2]

Yesterday Pirate Bay was shut down never to return.
Today they're back up.
If there's one thing to admire about Pirates, it's
there sticktoitiveness. Yarrr!

Re:Pirate Bay?

[girlintraining]

My therapist used the word "sticktoitiveness" as well, mostly referencing my lack of it. There was a point to this post, but it has eluded the author. Oh look, a kitty!

Re:Pirate Bay?

[Dan541]

The good guys always win, well not always but as a collective we pirates are holding our ground pretty darn well. Especially when you consider that we can't afford to buy any of our laws.

Re:Pirate Bay?

[TheRaven64]

The good guys always win

This is true, although largely because the winners who win retroactively define themselves as the good guys.

Good for them

[Myrcutio]

Sounds like great news for everyone. A precedent that helps stand against widespread banning of websites can only be a good thing for net neutrality. Means liability for illegal actions can't be retroactively inherited.

Hot women *and* weather soon enough....

[macraig]

Have you forgotten about global warming? Soon enough Norway might be the new Costa Rica: hot weather AND women. The food will probably be hot and spicy, too. But will the women still be fair-skinned and blonde? Hope you like the Latin/Caribbean/Mediterranean look.

Background info on Telenor

[Sheen]

I would like to add some information about Telenor. Telenor is state owned, 54% of the shares belong to the people/Norwegian state. They have close to 200 million customers worldwide. So this is a big operator in the Telecom world. They have about 43 000 employees. Today, I am proud to be Norwegian.

Re:I'm thinking about moving to Norway MOD UP!

[amorsen]

Not least about the author...

Re:Tracker down?

[icebraining]

The tracker hasn't worked for a few months, they switched to openbittorrent.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBitTorrent).

They said they wanted to separate the tracker from the website, so the tracker can't be liable (as it doesn't record the file names). Oh, and officially, no one knows who's the tracker owners :)

I don't understand ?

[daveime]

What happened to the "safe harbour" provisions for ISPs ?

It's okay to publish Scientology bullshit and bomb plans on the net, but woe betide any ISP who "assists in sharing" an mp3 ?