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Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
An anonymous reader writes "If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, is that Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure the phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'—usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. We cancel these unintended requests as fast as we can hit the End key, but it doesn't matter; they've told me that ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.'"
I hate Verizon even more now, I didn't think it was possible.
And yet people make fun of me for using a TracFone, for about only $9 per month.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350.
You sign a contract with Verizon. Verizon is providing the services. You are contracting with them and saying you will use their services for X years. It's a contract. Breaking a contract is something where both parties agree what the response should be. In this case, Verizon is saying that you are charged $350 if you break your contract and stop paying them what you said you would pay them.
Honestly, I don't see what the deal is. Chances are you are paying what... average of $100 a month for a Verizon plan? So $350 is 3.5 months? Paying 3.5 months for breaking a 24 month contract doesn't seem so unreasonable.
The fact that they ARE using that money to subsidize their "free phone" stuff is irrelevant. If they are able to apply money they get from termination fees to offer cheaper phones and get more customers that way, I see no problem with that.
But... oh well. It's much more interesting to complain about early termination fees as if they are hidden or sneaky or something. As if contracts should be able to be broken by either party without any consequences...
They'll make more now than the class-action will cost later.
Actually, I think their timing couldn't be better! I've got my droid on the lower cancel penalty... For once the early adopters get benefits!
This would make me not get Verizon, if I didn't already have it without the hike tho...
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
I understand, on principle why they charge early termination fees. $350 for a smartphone seems extreme, but taking the new Droid for example, the phone costs $550 without a plan and the customer gets it for $200 which is right in line. What doesn't make sense is the fact that if I cancel my contract 1 year and 11 months in, I'm expected to pay the whole termination fee, despite the fact that Verizon has already made back $335 of it. That's just abussive. Termination fees should be proportional to the amount of the contract you are terminating and capped at the amount of subsidization on the phone.
Don't want to use the data service? There's a scam for that. Want to upgrade your phone? There's a scam for that. No matter what you want to do, we'll get your money. Because there's a scam for that.
Problem is, you hit the web button by mistake, kill it before the browser is even open on your phone, but still get charged $2. 0.02 KB (according to the article) goes across the wire, but you're charged for 1024.
And, they place the "Bill me $2" button on an arrow key. Or, on or near some other commonly-hit button.
I hate cellphone companies for reasons just like this, so I got a terrorist cellphone (OK, a Tracfone) for just that reason. But, they too have an all-too-large "Bill me .3 minutes" next to your arrow and "OK" keys.
DATABASE WOW WOW
people were using the buy one Blackberry get one free promotion, canceling service, and selling that second Blackberry at a profit. What, are you feeling bad because you didn't think of it sooner? So am I :-)
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T? If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake". It's not like international roaming is any more lenient.
Except that it's far easier to do this even when you know the consequences. I have a Motorola Krave on Verizon for example (which BTW just might qualify as shittiest phone in existence) - the touch screen is INCREDIBLY fickle. When typing a text message even when I'm sitting there doing my best to hit 1 letter sometimes it'll register the one next to it - making me backspace 3-4 times to fix it (and it then occasionally not registering the backspace but instead a key next to THAT key - further frustrating me). So, the web browser (which I have no desire to use - AT ALL) is right next to the Tools and Media Center icons under the main menu. Despite your best efforts sometimes it'll hit that key when you're going for one next to it. Such things shouldn't incur extra charges.
Luckily I was able to go online and specifically disable all web data access from my phone, but it's sad to have to jump through hoops like that. Ideally just opening the web browser shouldn't use any data.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake".
Agreed...but the issue is not about paying for the 0.2kb HTTP request you just made, but rather paying for an entire MB worth of data. It's not like billing per kilobyte or even per BYTE is technically infeasible, so why can't you pay for a fractional MB if that's what you use? In fact, there is absolutely no justifiable technical reason for this -- it's pure asshat accounting. This is like plugging in a desk lamp into your wall outlet for 5 minutes and ComEd charging you for an entire kWh.
You know it's asshat-ish when even AT&T has a better policy.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T? If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake". It's not like international roaming is any more lenient.
I don't have a problem actually paying for data use. If I fire up a web browser and surf around a bit, go ahead and bill me.
The problem I have is that on my phone the web browser is bound to the up direction on the circular directional wheel... With the OK button in the middle. I have frequently hit the up direction accidentally when I meant to press OK. And that launches the web browser. It doesn't ask for confirmation... Just pops up the web browser and immediately starts loading a page.
Obviously I hit another button to cancel the web browser and go back to what I'm doing... But Verizon rounds pretty much any data transfer up to the nearest MB. So I'm billed for at least 1 MB even though I only actually transferred a couple K of data.
This was enough of a nuisance, not just for me but also my wife and son, that I had to block data entirely on our account. It would be nice to have it available if I needed it, but that just isn't possible. It's entirely too easy to wind up with a pile of little charges.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
As for early termination fees increasing, that's what gets you nice phones for cheap. I don't really see a problem with these fees since they are making phones more affordable given that you would have a phone plan anyway.
The pisser is that I want to BUY the phone by itself...and then be able to go to whatever provider I wanted. "Cheap phones" be damned! They should be clear about how much the phone is subsidized...and for how long...and make that as an "adder" to the normal monthly charge. You can either BUY a Droid for $550 outright and have a $40/mo bill...or get it for "Free" and pay an addl $28/month for 24 months (threw in some interest to boot). If you cancel after 12 months, then you owe 12*28, or $336.
But that makes too much sense...carriers would never go for that.
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
If you don't like the termination fee then you should simply use a competing service. Your choice to use Verizon is voluntary. Eventually the market will dictate what Verizon can charge.
"People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage."
And the award for the best stating of the obvious goes to MBGMorden. Take a bow.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Tracfone has a brand, Straight Talk (I have no affiliation and that's not a referral link), with phones available at WalMart with unlimited voice and text plus 30 MB data for $45/30 days. Prepaid being only for low-usage folks is a bygone idea.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number.
Google Voice to the rescue.
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$175 to immediately break your contract =
$375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$350 to immediately break your contract =
$550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
OK, this might be mean of me to say, but here in Oz I called my monopoly 3.5G telco (Telstra) and asked them to disable my phone's data service. I left SMS and MMS active, because they're not accident prone. It took 5 minutes which included hold time and a friendly chat with the operator.
The base model Chinese-made Telstra-branded rubbish phone has a custom firmware and the browser button cannot be re-programmed, but many of the other phones they offer like my Nokia E51 can be. The easy-to-accidently-press BigPond button now launches the camera app.
As much as I can bash Verizon for their gestapo-like moves in other areas, at least they've given us the tools to completely disable features like these through account management online.
Cool. I never really understood what "Stockholm Syndrome" meant until now.
I'm on T-mobile prepaid and i __love__ it. Yeah, i don't talk much. Verizon doesn't have any kind of cost effective service for customers like me. They lost my business a few years back and it's been wonderful.
I can use any GSM phone i want to, I didn't have to tell t-mobile anything about who i am or how i plan on paying, and i think i pay less in a year than i was paying for 2 months when i had a verizon "share plan" for my wife and I.
Finally -- with google voice [and other number re-direction schemes], the concept of even knowing your mobile number is officially uninteresting. I have been telling people the random southern california phone number i got issued when i bought my SIM card from ebay for a couple years now. Nobody cares what my number is, least of all me. If i want to truly own my number i will abstract my identity from my device, carrier, and location entirely -- like google voice (or skype in, or any other service) lets me do.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
T-Mobile does exactly that. You can either buy a subsidized phone and get a contract and a higher monthly fee. Or you can buy retail price and pay a lower monthly fee. If you want, you can pay the retail price in installments as well.
I was able to port the number from a Tracfone to an AT&T phone about a year and a half ago.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number. You decide to switch carriers and your phone number goes with it. Personally keeping my number is worth quite a bit more than $350. To each his own though.
According to TracFone's FAQ. They will allow you to transfer your number out of TracFone, but your personal information on the TracFone account must match the information on the new carrier's account. Source
At least with Sprint, if they change your terms of service, you have a set period of time to cancel your contract with them without an early termination fee. As already stated, you and the company have a contract. The company has changed their contract with you while the contract was still in effect. So, you have the ability to cancel w/o any type of fee if you do not agree with the unilateral changes that they made to your TOS. If you agree with the new TOS (or simply don't know that they changed), then they interpret your continuing to use their service as an acknowledgment of the changes they made to the contract and agreement to abide by the new requirements. Many a Sprint customer has gotten out of a contract for free because of minor changes to the TOS. Not sure if anything similar happens w/ Verizon or AT&T.
If I buy a smartphone from Verizon and sign a 2-year contract, I'm prepared to keep the phone and service for two years. That's the game and they're setting the rules - if I want to phone and service jump, sure I could prefer not to pay but I can't really find a fault in them wanting me to. Who is this hurting? If you move to a location where you don't get service, they already let you cancel without penalty. How many people actually end up paying the ETF?
Also, I don't know about the data bit either. My old k1m/krzr went to the "mobile web" or get it now if I hit the down arrow. That brought up a launch screen where I could check account settings (for free), purchase a day's worth of mobile browsing, or sign up for mobile web and have it as a recurring payment. I've never been charged for any sort of access for pulling anything down.
What could be worse? They seem deliberately design the interface to trap users into triggering this extra usages. I have a Samsung SGH-T509 from T-mobile. Once you take a picture with this phone, it will display "Send to : My Album" with the right (yah, most people are right-handed too) button conveniently displaying "Yes". Every person that ever used my phone, including myself, would almost automatically click Yes; saving to the album sounds like the right thing to do after taking a picture. It turns out My Album is an online service, saving to there initiates a data transmission which is costly if you don't have a data plan. If you want to save locally, you need to click the left button (now labeled "Options",) scroll down to select and click"Send to", scroll down to and click "My photos". I figured this trick out after the first time I hit the Yes button, but still making mistakes from time to time. My wife never seems to remember this trick until it is too late.
You bet the marketing people figured out most people wouldn't want a data plan and need to trick you into sending data. trick or treat.
The last time I was on Verizon I went to get a new phone after having one for 3 years. They told me I wasn't eligible for a new phone, because my wife got one the year before. We had a shared family plan.
I found it in writing where it stipulated where we were both eligible for new phones every two years. They insisted that if I didn't get mine at the same time she got hers, then I missed my window. I was livid. I kept going back to the Verizon store (and waiting 30 minutes to talk to a person each time) and trying to talk to different people.
Eventually I said, I'll just pay my $150 cancellation fee, which is cheaper than paying full retail on a phone, since they wouldn't give me a new phone after two years.
They then said, I'd have to pay $350. They consider family plans two seperate lines. I'd pay $175 each. Funny how it is two lines for cancellation purposes, but one plan as far as getting new phones. The weird part is that I was convinced my cancellation fee was $150 when I signed the contract.
They explained that all prices and fees can be changed at any time during the contract, and that raised my cancellation fee over the life of the contract. I was pretty livid. I ended up waiting a few months and then jumping to AT&T. Now I have a phone that doesn't get signal in half the town, but I never want to go back to Verizon's service again.
Everytime a Verizon rep talks to me and tries to get me to switch, they insist they'd never pull a stunt where they wouldn't give me a phone, and yet in talking to two store managers, and calling the 1-800 number, that is exactly what they did to me.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I though AT&T was bad..(well they are). Looks like Verizon is thanking customers as well with very unfriendly customer service. I am a Sprint customer and I can say they finally seem to be getting it. I recently received unlimited cell to cell (any carrier) from them without having to do anything. Looks like T-Mobile also gets it. I see they have added some nice options to their plans. Unfortunately, they (Sprint and Tmobile) are the small guys now.
I'm extremely glad I finally ditched Verizon for Sprint 3 months ago. Sprint has better coverage and better service for cheaper. Even though my workplace provides a Verizon discount, Sprint was still cheaper. Not to mention with my Verizon phones I was lucky to even get a signal in the building I'm in. With my Sprint phone I get 3-4 bars consistently (all my coworkers with Verizon have noted this too). The 3 Sprint users here are the only ones that can get a signal without going outside. Anyway, I digress...I'm paying $15/month less with Sprint, unlimited data, unlimited text/pix, 1500 minutes/month, free nights/weekends, nights/weekends starting at 7pm instead of 9pm, than I was with Verizon, with unlimited text, but no pix, no data, and my company discount. Verizon has terrible phones, terrible service, and they are a ripoff in general. I switched on the advice of my roommate, who has had service with Sprint for 6 years and has never had any issues. Neither of us understand why they have a bad reputation.
Paying $230 to break a 2-year contract after one year is far cheaper than keeping the phone for another year at $120+ per month...just sayin'.
TracFone's voice service ends up costing me about 14 cents per minute when they dont offer me a bonus code, which is rare.
When you start talking about $350 charges I am thinking well fuck, thats at least 2500 minutes
And you know what happens if I break my phone? I pay $30 for a new one, and I don't even have to argue with anybody.
"His name was James Damore."
So this change is a change to the contract. If they change your contract, you can get out of it for free.
Ha! Ha! Ha! I really screwed Verizon over!!
Hey, wait...
Point is, no matter how much Verizon sells a phone for, that phone can only do one of two things: be used to make Verizon money, or go in the trash. Is it justifiable for a CARRIER-LOCKED PHONE to be contractually *fully* subsidized by the purchaser? If this was AT&T, T-Mobile, etc. I could see the point - I take my phone and run, screwing the company out of money. But with Verizon's phones, regardless of how long I am with them - the phone will keep making them money!
First rule of Verizon: the people in the stores know nothing and are not backed up by the home office.
This means the people in the stores will tell you things that are completely wrong. This can result in your being charged extra for things because the people in the stores have no ability to enforce their promises. The 800 number is the only "customer service" that exists for Verizon. Even at a "store manager" level, they have no power, no training and no ability to get anything done. This pretty much means they are there to dial the phone and put the customer on the phone with the 800 number customer service people.
The stores seem to exist to provide an image of local, in person support when none really exists. I have dealt with some good stores and some bad stores, but over all it doesn't make any difference - because the manager can promise you something or interpret some vague statement for you and then you get a bill that says exactly the opposite. Calling the 800 number gets responses like "they shouldn't have told you that" and worse.
End result is very simple. Verizon stores are perhaps a place to pick up a phone. They cannot do anything more than that for you. Expect nothing and you will not be disappointed.
Given that they're the ones that make it such that the "up" key defaults to "Mobile Web" on their BREW based phones, my problem is still with Verizon. Given that the data charge granularity is ludicrous (orders of magnitude worse than their call granularity), my problem is still with Verizon.
OK, this might be mean of me to say, but here in Oz I called my monopoly 3.5G telco (Telstra) and asked them to disable my phone's data service. I left SMS and MMS active, because they're not accident prone. It took 5 minutes which included hold time and a friendly chat with the operator.
I tried doing this with Verizon. I was able to get data service disabled, but in order to do so I also had to block MMS messages, which are included with the text message plan. There was no other option. Not having to deal with random $2 charges is worth the lack of MMS for me (since I don't send them very often), but I still found it ridiculous that they couldn't be blocked separately.
I was on Verizon for several years. After a phone went bad (dropped in a stream), I went back to get a new one and they required me to change my cell plan to a new plan where nights and weekends moved an hour later. Well, that was somewhat annoying having it move to 8:00 because most of the people I call are two time zones over. Unfortunately, that phone was an utter piece of excrement and after a few months, it started dropping calls very frequently. I called Verizon to complain, and they said there was a tower down that might be affecting things. A few months later, I moved to a different area where there was no such problem and still dropped calls. After a few months of this, I decided to get another new phone that actually worked.
Now they wanted me to move my nights and weekends to 9:00 P.M. I basically said "No way in hell. Can I get a phone without changing contracts if I pay full price?" They said no, and their only suggestion was to buy a phone on eBay. I looked at my options, priced out what I would get from other carriers, and switched to AT&T the next day. I even kept my old phone number. Even though AT&T's nights and weekends started at 9:00 just like Verizon's, I got so many more minutes than with my Verizon plan that it more than covered the difference. And when Cingular took them over and I changed to a plan with roll-over minutes, the difference became even more dramatic. Now, I'm on an iPhone plan. Every so often, I think about the friends and family who are still stuck on that nickel-and-dime-you-to-death Verizon network, and I feel sorry for them. AT&T sucks, too, of course, but not like Verizon does. It's good to see this news and know that they still haven't changed.
As for me, I can't wait for LTE rollouts to become widespread. At that point, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon will all be using compatible networks and people will be able to switch without changing phones. Then, these companies will have to start actually competing with each other instead of paying lip service to competing. You'll also see massive screaming to put an end to early termination fees if you provide your own equipment. Life will be better. Here's hoping, anyway. The only question is how long it will take before Sprint joins in and makes us a single-standard country as we should be....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
*IF* you act on it in a certain period, usually 30-60 days. You can't just ride it for another year, and then say "Oh, that was unacceptable to me" and get out that way. If you don't immediately act, that's viewed as performance of the contract, implying its acceptability to you.
MOD PARENT UP!
I am so glad to have T-Moblie service (and Android for over a year). Not because they have great coverage (it is really good in Atlanta but bad other places), because Verizon does. I am so glad because they give the best customer service, in both the stores and on the phone.
I had huge problems with Verizon refurbished phones not working properly (went through 5 phones in 8 weeks). Three of the five didn't work properly out of the store. The other two had either the speaker or LCD mess up within a week. Every time I went to get a replacement I had to call the 800 number, hand the phone to the desk person so they would give me the replacement. PITA. I ended up forwarding my number to a Pre-Paid T-Mobile phone for 5 months before my contract ended (it was cheaper to pay the $10 a month for the family line, than the $175 break fee). I moved my number the day my contract ended. The other 3 family lines got moved within 5 days.
Sorry for the rant. VerizonWireless, and Comcast will never get a dime from me, they both offer nice products (well just Verizon), but their service is not worth the hassle. I also know a Verizon Wireless employee (accounting) that forgoes the discounted rates also 100% due to the fact their customer service sucks.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
Which is a VERIZON UI.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
"Contrary to the GP's post, the penalty is, in principle, because of the phone subsidy."
I think that's incorrect.
If you get a $200 phone for $100 because of 2 year agreement, not considering interest, you think, "right, subsidy of about $4.16 per month". But yet, when you hit the 25th month, the monthly service doesn't go down by $4.16. Worse, if you bring your own phone to the carrier, they don't lower the price.
In my opinion, you're getting a subsidy for the difference between the "normal" price and the price with the two year plan because you've committed to a 24 month revenue stream. [That doesn't hold true in the second case though; if you bring your own phone and agree to a 2 year plan, you don't get a break in price]
A fair termination fee would be the difference between the phone price you paid and the phone price without plan subtracting the amount of time that you paid them for the plan. Perhaps that should even be waived if you turn in the phone.
But let's stop playing this game. Carriers charge people a lot of money for everything *because we pay it*. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Please, for the love of God and all that is decent in this world, steer clear of Verizon Wireless!!!
I am a Verizon Wireless customer. They make "horrible customer service" sound like something to aspire to.
They haven't been able to get my bill "right" for months. Every single month there are random charges tacked on, that they cannot explain when I call. Until recently, they've cancelled these charges with good apology. But now?
I have two phones suspended because they are lost. Originally, I was told I could suspend them indefinitely. Then I was told that I could only suspend them month-by-month. Then I was was told I could suspend them three months at a time. Now, they're telling me that I can only suspend 6 months per year. None of which was mentioned when I asked up front, and none of which is ever consistently said after the fact.
So I decided to buy out the contract. Get this: Not only are they're charging me for two months' service for two phones I don't even have, they're charging me for an entire two months of service for both of those two phones AFTER the contract has been cancelled by being bought out!
If you are ever, EVER tempted to go Verizon, RUN LIKE HELL OUT OF THERE. They make a pack of lying vultures being eaten by a horde of hungry lawyers seem friendly!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
As for me, I can't wait for LTE rollouts to become widespread. At that point, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon will all be using compatible networks and people will be able to switch without changing phones.
No. For now only VZW and Sprint have announced they're going to LTE; most everyone else is going to UMTS before evne thinking about LTE. VZW is leading the pack on LTE as they're already working on a trial with my company. VZW should have LTE public by middle of 2010, far ahead of anyone else. And it will be awesome. :o)
Actually I've found VZ customer service incredibly pleasant -- the hold times until you speak to a rep are rather long; but once you get a rep, it's clear they aren't measured by how fast they get you off the phone. The reps seam pleasant and remarkably well trained. (On the other hand, almost all of the VZ phones use the exact same interface so the training is easier.) I've found it relatively easy to make plan and service changes with verizon. I don't think I'd ever get a SBC (now called AT&T) phone.
No, you're confusing Droid with Android. Droid is a specific Android-based phone made by Motorola and currently only available through Verizon. Droid is also, by most measures, significantly better than any other Android-based phone.
I don't know why you all are so confused. The contract is pretty unambiguous to me:
> megabytes sent or received
> using Mobile Web (including
> advertising) will be aggregated each month, rounded up to the next
> megabyte, and billed at
> $1.99/MB.
> Rates are rounded to the nearest whole megabyte. One megabyte is equal
> to 1024 kilobytes.
This would imply a charge of $0 in your case. It would also charge you $2 when rounding up to the whole megabyte.
Using my verizon math skills, I can see that adding these two charges together gives us $2 + 0 = $20.
It would appear that you managed to save a whole 18 cents.
“Texting is the closest thing to pure profit ever invented” – Sir Chris Gent, founder of Vodafone.