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Verizon Doubles Early Termination Fee and More
An anonymous reader writes "If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350. What's more, is that Verizon also actively charges customers for accidental data transmissions of as little as 0.02kb. 'They configure the phones to have multiple easily hit keystrokes to launch 'Get it now' or 'Mobile Web'—usually a single key like an arrow key. [...] The instant you call the function, they charge you the data fee. We cancel these unintended requests as fast as we can hit the End key, but it doesn't matter; they've told me that ANY data--even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB. The damage is done.'"
I hate Verizon even more now, I didn't think it was possible.
Do they just throw that away? What a waste.
And yet people make fun of me for using a TracFone, for about only $9 per month.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
If you buy a smartphone through Verizon, be prepared for an increase in the early termination fee. Verizon is doubling the phone-subsidy to $350.
You sign a contract with Verizon. Verizon is providing the services. You are contracting with them and saying you will use their services for X years. It's a contract. Breaking a contract is something where both parties agree what the response should be. In this case, Verizon is saying that you are charged $350 if you break your contract and stop paying them what you said you would pay them.
Honestly, I don't see what the deal is. Chances are you are paying what... average of $100 a month for a Verizon plan? So $350 is 3.5 months? Paying 3.5 months for breaking a 24 month contract doesn't seem so unreasonable.
The fact that they ARE using that money to subsidize their "free phone" stuff is irrelevant. If they are able to apply money they get from termination fees to offer cheaper phones and get more customers that way, I see no problem with that.
But... oh well. It's much more interesting to complain about early termination fees as if they are hidden or sneaky or something. As if contracts should be able to be broken by either party without any consequences...
They'll make more now than the class-action will cost later.
Actually, I think their timing couldn't be better! I've got my droid on the lower cancel penalty... For once the early adopters get benefits!
This would make me not get Verizon, if I didn't already have it without the hike tho...
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
I understand, on principle why they charge early termination fees. $350 for a smartphone seems extreme, but taking the new Droid for example, the phone costs $550 without a plan and the customer gets it for $200 which is right in line. What doesn't make sense is the fact that if I cancel my contract 1 year and 11 months in, I'm expected to pay the whole termination fee, despite the fact that Verizon has already made back $335 of it. That's just abussive. Termination fees should be proportional to the amount of the contract you are terminating and capped at the amount of subsidization on the phone.
As much as I can bash Verizon for their gestapo-like moves in other areas, at least they've given us the tools to completely disable features like these through account management online. I know this doesn't offer much of a solution for the casual user of these features, but at least it helps with certain users who intend to NEVER use the features.
As far as purposely designing these features on phones that make it VERY easy to accidentally activate and thus get charged for it no matter how quickly you try and shut it off, somehow the words "worthless greedy bloodsucking bastards" doesn't quite cover it.
Don't want to use the data service? There's a scam for that. Want to upgrade your phone? There's a scam for that. No matter what you want to do, we'll get your money. Because there's a scam for that.
Problem is, you hit the web button by mistake, kill it before the browser is even open on your phone, but still get charged $2. 0.02 KB (according to the article) goes across the wire, but you're charged for 1024.
And, they place the "Bill me $2" button on an arrow key. Or, on or near some other commonly-hit button.
I hate cellphone companies for reasons just like this, so I got a terrorist cellphone (OK, a Tracfone) for just that reason. But, they too have an all-too-large "Bill me .3 minutes" next to your arrow and "OK" keys.
DATABASE WOW WOW
See, if it were real data usage, that would be fine and I agree with you. One major problem: they explicitly refuse to disable data. I have no intention of ever using data on Verizon yet I have to have a plan that says they charge obscene amounts for accidental button presses on a phone I only want to use for calls and texting. (I have nothing against smart phones / data plans... I just have an n810 and am at university so there is free Wi-Fi everywhere.)
people were using the buy one Blackberry get one free promotion, canceling service, and selling that second Blackberry at a profit. What, are you feeling bad because you didn't think of it sooner? So am I :-)
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T? If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake". It's not like international roaming is any more lenient.
Except that it's far easier to do this even when you know the consequences. I have a Motorola Krave on Verizon for example (which BTW just might qualify as shittiest phone in existence) - the touch screen is INCREDIBLY fickle. When typing a text message even when I'm sitting there doing my best to hit 1 letter sometimes it'll register the one next to it - making me backspace 3-4 times to fix it (and it then occasionally not registering the backspace but instead a key next to THAT key - further frustrating me). So, the web browser (which I have no desire to use - AT ALL) is right next to the Tools and Media Center icons under the main menu. Despite your best efforts sometimes it'll hit that key when you're going for one next to it. Such things shouldn't incur extra charges.
Luckily I was able to go online and specifically disable all web data access from my phone, but it's sad to have to jump through hoops like that. Ideally just opening the web browser shouldn't use any data.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake".
Agreed...but the issue is not about paying for the 0.2kb HTTP request you just made, but rather paying for an entire MB worth of data. It's not like billing per kilobyte or even per BYTE is technically infeasible, so why can't you pay for a fractional MB if that's what you use? In fact, there is absolutely no justifiable technical reason for this -- it's pure asshat accounting. This is like plugging in a desk lamp into your wall outlet for 5 minutes and ComEd charging you for an entire kWh.
You know it's asshat-ish when even AT&T has a better policy.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
I can see the new marketing slogan:
From -
"Can you hear me now?"
and -
"We have a map for that."
Now we'll have -
"Where's my money bitches?"
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number. You decide to switch carriers and your phone number goes with it. Personally keeping my number is worth quite a bit more than $350. To each his own though.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Happy Verizon customer here. Just picked up a Motorola Droid... very happy with it!
Motorola Droid Forum
Forum Foundry, Inc.
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T? If you use data, it seems reasonable to me to charge a fee even if you just made "a mistake". It's not like international roaming is any more lenient.
I don't have a problem actually paying for data use. If I fire up a web browser and surf around a bit, go ahead and bill me.
The problem I have is that on my phone the web browser is bound to the up direction on the circular directional wheel... With the OK button in the middle. I have frequently hit the up direction accidentally when I meant to press OK. And that launches the web browser. It doesn't ask for confirmation... Just pops up the web browser and immediately starts loading a page.
Obviously I hit another button to cancel the web browser and go back to what I'm doing... But Verizon rounds pretty much any data transfer up to the nearest MB. So I'm billed for at least 1 MB even though I only actually transferred a couple K of data.
This was enough of a nuisance, not just for me but also my wife and son, that I had to block data entirely on our account. It would be nice to have it available if I needed it, but that just isn't possible. It's entirely too easy to wind up with a pile of little charges.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
The point is that they don't disable the data, but rather let you use it and set a fairly huge and costly (without a plan) minimum, so when you accidentally hit the wrong button they make pretty good money (esp. when added across all their subscribers). According to a friend on Verizon, this is fairly standard fare.
As far as the termination penalty is concerned, I couldn't agree more. When a contract offers a concession upfront, early termination almost invariably involves a penalty on the order of that concession.
As for early termination fees increasing, that's what gets you nice phones for cheap. I don't really see a problem with these fees since they are making phones more affordable given that you would have a phone plan anyway.
The pisser is that I want to BUY the phone by itself...and then be able to go to whatever provider I wanted. "Cheap phones" be damned! They should be clear about how much the phone is subsidized...and for how long...and make that as an "adder" to the normal monthly charge. You can either BUY a Droid for $550 outright and have a $40/mo bill...or get it for "Free" and pay an addl $28/month for 24 months (threw in some interest to boot). If you cancel after 12 months, then you owe 12*28, or $336.
But that makes too much sense...carriers would never go for that.
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
I bought a Droid on Friday morning when it came out online. I received it at lunch on Monday, and activated. Upon activation, they made me agree to the 2 year contract re-up, and a $175 early termination fee...
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
The problem is that they round up to a minimum of a $1.99, regardless of usage. That's a steep minimum. A comparison would be rounding up 1 second of calltime to 17 minutes (1 sec to 1024 sec).
Also, even if you disable data services on your phone, they charge you $1.99 because it took bandwidth to send you the "You do not have this service" message.
That's gotta be a troll but what the hell. The problem is not that they are charging you for something you used even by mistake, the issue is they are charging you for much more then you are actually using and apparently they don't allow you to use what you've been charged for. So lets say you accidentally push a button that opens up a browser or what ever and you load a page that is about 50KB you get charged for a megabyte so I should be able to go back and load the page again with out getting charged again since another 50KB would only be 100KB out of my 1000KB right? That $1.99 should actually provide you with a megabyte of usage right? So I should be able to make about 1000 1KB mistakes and only be charged $1.99 because I've only used 1MB of data on their network. The idea is if I charge you for 1MB why shouldn't it be reasonable to be able to use it all? If you intentionally check out a web page and someone calls while it loads will you have to start again? So would it be reasonable to you if I charged you for a dozen doughnuts but only let you keep the ones you could stuff in your mouth at once?
A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
If you don't like the termination fee then you should simply use a competing service. Your choice to use Verizon is voluntary. Eventually the market will dictate what Verizon can charge.
"People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage."
And the award for the best stating of the obvious goes to MBGMorden. Take a bow.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
If you disable data services, and accidentally click on a data service button, you will be charged $1.99 for the bandwith it took to send you the 'You do not have this service' message.
Tracfone has a brand, Straight Talk (I have no affiliation and that's not a referral link), with phones available at WalMart with unlimited voice and text plus 30 MB data for $45/30 days. Prepaid being only for low-usage folks is a bygone idea.
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number.
Google Voice to the rescue.
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$175 to immediately break your contract =
$375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$350 to immediately break your contract =
$550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
OK, this might be mean of me to say, but here in Oz I called my monopoly 3.5G telco (Telstra) and asked them to disable my phone's data service. I left SMS and MMS active, because they're not accident prone. It took 5 minutes which included hold time and a friendly chat with the operator.
The base model Chinese-made Telstra-branded rubbish phone has a custom firmware and the browser button cannot be re-programmed, but many of the other phones they offer like my Nokia E51 can be. The easy-to-accidently-press BigPond button now launches the camera app.
I got sent a termination fee bill from Verizon when I left for AT&T/iPhone even though I was past the two-year mark for my contract.
Plus side, Verizon was very good about tossing it out immediately.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
if you have a smartphone on verizon you are REQUIRED to have a smartphone data plan which is "unlimited" (5GB/month), so no 1MB billings.
i know. I have an Omnia on Verizon /employer discounts ftw
If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
T-mobile just did.
Shaka, when the walls fell.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
I'm on T-mobile prepaid and i __love__ it. Yeah, i don't talk much. Verizon doesn't have any kind of cost effective service for customers like me. They lost my business a few years back and it's been wonderful.
I can use any GSM phone i want to, I didn't have to tell t-mobile anything about who i am or how i plan on paying, and i think i pay less in a year than i was paying for 2 months when i had a verizon "share plan" for my wife and I.
Finally -- with google voice [and other number re-direction schemes], the concept of even knowing your mobile number is officially uninteresting. I have been telling people the random southern california phone number i got issued when i bought my SIM card from ebay for a couple years now. Nobody cares what my number is, least of all me. If i want to truly own my number i will abstract my identity from my device, carrier, and location entirely -- like google voice (or skype in, or any other service) lets me do.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Why, oh why, are the only other two options actually WORSE? Cell phones in The U.S. are a freakin money mining joke.
"They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!"
Two bucks? That's not that bad... Telus (in Canada) charges an outrageous $8/MB.
Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
T-Mobile does exactly that. You can either buy a subsidized phone and get a contract and a higher monthly fee. Or you can buy retail price and pay a lower monthly fee. If you want, you can pay the retail price in installments as well.
If you disable data services, and accidentally click on a data service button, you will be charged $1.99 for the bandwith it took to send you the 'You do not have this service' message.
Actually no. Like I said if you tell them that you want to block access to all data services then they will in fact disable it. You will no longer have any TCP/IP capability to even return the message 'You do not have this service'. I went from 'unlimited data' to having the service blocked, even when I tried to access websites and initiate email syncronization. I no longer was billed for data services.
I am not saying this because I loved VzW, after my phone died I switched to AT&T and got an iPhone. There was even the pleasant surprise that the ETF was pro-rated so it only cost me $80 to cancel the contract early. So VzW isn't as bad as the article is making them out to be.
Remember, if they change data rates (and you know they'll try to hike it as soon as the phone becomes popular), you can always break terminate your plan for no fee. I suspect verizon will do that quite fast.
Have you tried to find a pay phone lately? A couple of decades ago, there used to be phone booths practically every other block. There are virtually none in the city where I live any more. I think the mall has a few pay phones, but I honestly don't know of any others. So if you ever have an emergency, or simply want to call home to tell your wife, husband, parents, etc., that you'll be a bit late as you're stopping to get groceries, you pretty much need a cell phone these days.
Personally, I would much prefer not to have a cell phone. But that's pretty much impossible nowadays.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
I was able to port the number from a Tracfone to an AT&T phone about a year and a half ago.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Simple. Tell Verizon to disable all data service on your phone if you don't want it at all. That way you don't get billed, you just get an error if you hit the wrong button. I did that on my Treo 650 and never once received an errant data charge.
Or get a 5GB data plan.
Also, AT&T is also basically the same.
BTW, you have to *seriously* fight with your provider if you want a data-capable phone without either fully disabling the data plan OR a "practically unlimited" plan for just the reasons the article submitter is complaining about.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Murdock owns the Daily News, not the Times; the Times has been subscription for at least 7+ years; subscribing is free.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Also, unlike most other services, with TracFone you don't own your number. You decide to switch carriers and your phone number goes with it. Personally keeping my number is worth quite a bit more than $350. To each his own though.
According to TracFone's FAQ. They will allow you to transfer your number out of TracFone, but your personal information on the TracFone account must match the information on the new carrier's account. Source
At least with Sprint, if they change your terms of service, you have a set period of time to cancel your contract with them without an early termination fee. As already stated, you and the company have a contract. The company has changed their contract with you while the contract was still in effect. So, you have the ability to cancel w/o any type of fee if you do not agree with the unilateral changes that they made to your TOS. If you agree with the new TOS (or simply don't know that they changed), then they interpret your continuing to use their service as an acknowledgment of the changes they made to the contract and agreement to abide by the new requirements. Many a Sprint customer has gotten out of a contract for free because of minor changes to the TOS. Not sure if anything similar happens w/ Verizon or AT&T.
The problem isn't so much the charge itself. It's just how easy it is to make that mistake.
It isn't like it's deeper menu item. On my phone, just fat fingering "up" will cause you to try to use Mobile Web. This is a really easy thing to do, given that the "ok" button is in the middle of the D-pad on my phone.
The granularity is also an issue. Charging for a full MB when you use less than 1k? That's orders of magnitude worse than futzing a call and being charged a minute.
If I buy a smartphone from Verizon and sign a 2-year contract, I'm prepared to keep the phone and service for two years. That's the game and they're setting the rules - if I want to phone and service jump, sure I could prefer not to pay but I can't really find a fault in them wanting me to. Who is this hurting? If you move to a location where you don't get service, they already let you cancel without penalty. How many people actually end up paying the ETF?
Also, I don't know about the data bit either. My old k1m/krzr went to the "mobile web" or get it now if I hit the down arrow. That brought up a launch screen where I could check account settings (for free), purchase a day's worth of mobile browsing, or sign up for mobile web and have it as a recurring payment. I've never been charged for any sort of access for pulling anything down.
Nope. That did not happen to me once in the entire time I had a Treo 650 (notorious for accidentally racking up major data service charges) and had data service completely disabled/blocked on my account.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Data capable (virtually all phones) and smart phones are very different on company policies. They don't volunteer the information but if you ask they will disable the data plan on ATT
At least on AT&T when you are on suspension the contract clock pauses. You simply move your contract end date out by the length of your suspension.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
AT&T has no issue with disabling the data plan. Some phones you can do it as an option in the phone if you can find it. I would try talking to a different tech (or if it is their main support a manager) because I know people who have had verizon disable data as well
People who make a lot of calls aren't going to come in at $9 per month - pre-paids are only good for people with very low usage.
Common misconception. I have unlimited calls and text messages for $39.95/mo with Page Plus Cellular. (On the Verizon network to boot.)
I switched when I got my first $1.99 data fee.
You sign a contract with Verizon. Verizon is providing the services. You are contracting with them and saying you will use their services for X years. It's a contract. [...]
Honestly, I don't see what the deal is.
So what if it's a contract? Does that magically make it unquestionably super-awesome or some sort of natural law like gravity which is pointless to complain about?
The point is that it's an asinine contract and that people are upset with its terms. It would be one thing if Verizon was giving its customers something in exchange for the new terms, but no such benefit is being offered for the higher cost. There are no upsides. People have a right to be upset.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Why would you question the motives of the author? They seem pretty clear to me.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
I think it's T-Mobile's European heritage soaking through since pretty much all carriers in the UK (unsure about other countries) do that. If you're just getting a plan, you save a bit vs. getting a plan and subsidizing the phone.
The article is talking about smartphone termination fees, and then data charges per meg.
It should be noted that most new smartphones come with a mandatory unlimited data plan, so you wouldn't pay per meg of data.
However, the explanation for the mandatory data plan was that the phones needed extra subsidy. What is the explanation for the massive new cancellation fee then? I thought I already subsidized the cost with my normal monthly plan, and data plan.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Pretty sure that's their European heritage shining through. In the UK (unsure about any other EU countries) pretty well all the major carriers do this AFAIK...
What could be worse? They seem deliberately design the interface to trap users into triggering this extra usages. I have a Samsung SGH-T509 from T-mobile. Once you take a picture with this phone, it will display "Send to : My Album" with the right (yah, most people are right-handed too) button conveniently displaying "Yes". Every person that ever used my phone, including myself, would almost automatically click Yes; saving to the album sounds like the right thing to do after taking a picture. It turns out My Album is an online service, saving to there initiates a data transmission which is costly if you don't have a data plan. If you want to save locally, you need to click the left button (now labeled "Options",) scroll down to select and click"Send to", scroll down to and click "My photos". I figured this trick out after the first time I hit the Yes button, but still making mistakes from time to time. My wife never seems to remember this trick until it is too late.
You bet the marketing people figured out most people wouldn't want a data plan and need to trick you into sending data. trick or treat.
The wife & I just bought a house and I've been inundated by tons of crap from Verizon about everything from Cell plans to television access... Hurray! Propaganda! Why am I going to get television service from a horrible phone company? Side note: Much less, why would I want phone service from a Cable Co? --Stak
Holy happy hippy crap!
The last time I was on Verizon I went to get a new phone after having one for 3 years. They told me I wasn't eligible for a new phone, because my wife got one the year before. We had a shared family plan.
I found it in writing where it stipulated where we were both eligible for new phones every two years. They insisted that if I didn't get mine at the same time she got hers, then I missed my window. I was livid. I kept going back to the Verizon store (and waiting 30 minutes to talk to a person each time) and trying to talk to different people.
Eventually I said, I'll just pay my $150 cancellation fee, which is cheaper than paying full retail on a phone, since they wouldn't give me a new phone after two years.
They then said, I'd have to pay $350. They consider family plans two seperate lines. I'd pay $175 each. Funny how it is two lines for cancellation purposes, but one plan as far as getting new phones. The weird part is that I was convinced my cancellation fee was $150 when I signed the contract.
They explained that all prices and fees can be changed at any time during the contract, and that raised my cancellation fee over the life of the contract. I was pretty livid. I ended up waiting a few months and then jumping to AT&T. Now I have a phone that doesn't get signal in half the town, but I never want to go back to Verizon's service again.
Everytime a Verizon rep talks to me and tries to get me to switch, they insist they'd never pull a stunt where they wouldn't give me a phone, and yet in talking to two store managers, and calling the 1-800 number, that is exactly what they did to me.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
You can't just lock your screen or ask that your phone not be usable for a data plan?
I though AT&T was bad..(well they are). Looks like Verizon is thanking customers as well with very unfriendly customer service. I am a Sprint customer and I can say they finally seem to be getting it. I recently received unlimited cell to cell (any carrier) from them without having to do anything. Looks like T-Mobile also gets it. I see they have added some nice options to their plans. Unfortunately, they (Sprint and Tmobile) are the small guys now.
You must be new here.
Verizon landline with no hidden costs... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Every month I find something new on my bill, and every month I would have to call them and waste my time for them to tell me it's a new fee they have to pay for the government, when in reality, it's a new fee they made up to increase profits.
Their solution was a novel one. They changed the bill so now you just get a statement that tell you you owe $120, and they don't say for what. The bill isn't broken down, you cannot see what calls have been made, and you don't know what fees are being levied.
If you don't like it, they will be happy to disconnect you.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I'm extremely glad I finally ditched Verizon for Sprint 3 months ago. Sprint has better coverage and better service for cheaper. Even though my workplace provides a Verizon discount, Sprint was still cheaper. Not to mention with my Verizon phones I was lucky to even get a signal in the building I'm in. With my Sprint phone I get 3-4 bars consistently (all my coworkers with Verizon have noted this too). The 3 Sprint users here are the only ones that can get a signal without going outside. Anyway, I digress...I'm paying $15/month less with Sprint, unlimited data, unlimited text/pix, 1500 minutes/month, free nights/weekends, nights/weekends starting at 7pm instead of 9pm, than I was with Verizon, with unlimited text, but no pix, no data, and my company discount. Verizon has terrible phones, terrible service, and they are a ripoff in general. I switched on the advice of my roommate, who has had service with Sprint for 6 years and has never had any issues. Neither of us understand why they have a bad reputation.
My EnV had a way to change that functionality. It was Brew (if I recall) so just about all the other Vz branded smart phones should be the same.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
I use a nice straight-and-simple pre-paid phone. No enrollment, no contract. The "web" button, however, is right next to the left arrow key just as you describe. I get charged for 30 seconds of pre-paid time whenever I accidentally hit it (that amounts to about 7 cents)
"His name was James Damore."
One major problem: they explicitly refuse to disable data.
This seems really unlikely to me, I've not heard of a carrier that will not let you disable the data plan. Although Verizon has a reputation, so perhaps they do... but I would like to see a link to that policy defined.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Pre-paid cell fills the pay phone void for me, and I average less than $10/mo (it's $25 every 3 months minimum, and I have been slowly accumulating on the account balance).
The poster was referring to the hordes of whack jobs paying $70-100 a MONTH for their shiny bit of junk, with a $175-350 penalty if you wise up enough to try and cancel it.
Happened to me a couple of times. They try to hard to discourage you from using your data plan (twice the price for buying songs with the phone, rather than with the PC; piping IM into SMS so you need a text messaging plan to IM, etc etc etc). So I cancelled mine, and told them they make it too difficult to actually use it. The 0.2kb charges showed up afterwards, so I called them to bitch, and they removed the charges. I also told them to put a data block on my account so my phone can never use the pay-as-you go data service. Problem solved. If everybody did it, it would cost them a lot of money handling the service requests, and they'd stop doing this.
The only reason this is a problem (for those of us who care) is because people pay their bills automatically and don't even know they are being charged for nothing.
Edith Keeler Must Die
The term "incommunicado" came into being for *some* reason. Hmmmm.... I wonder what it could have been. "Impossible" my ass. My family hasn't had a cell phone for 3 years, and it's great. If we're not home, we're, you know, not reachable. It's great! We even have kids, and when the wife and I go out for lunch or a dinner and we leave the kids home, we can't even be reached by them. ZOMG! I know, I know... having the neighbor's and restaurant's phone number on a refrigerator post-it note is *so* archaic.
Method of processing duck feet
Yup, my iPhone loses signal at my driveway and I don't care. Am through dealing with Verizon and their disabling of phone tech except through their services. Screw them!
I drank what? -- Socrates
If you don't like it, they will be happy to disconnect you.
Let them disconnect you, then. From what other people in this thread are saying, there are other providers who will treat you far better than Verizon will.
Stop sending the company the message that its' behaviour is acceptable, by continuing to give it money. Start exercising personal responsibility and conscious choice.
Paying $230 to break a 2-year contract after one year is far cheaper than keeping the phone for another year at $120+ per month...just sayin'.
The problem isn't so much the charge itself. It's just how easy it is to make that mistake.
Then you don't have a problem with Verizon. You have a problem with poor phone UI.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They and ATT got away with price fixing SMS charges, what makes you think they can't do whatever the hell they please?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
Which is great unless your phone *isn't* a DROID and costs substantially less than $560.
If you actually want to look at the map, yeah we get a buck for that...
Why bother
TracFone's voice service ends up costing me about 14 cents per minute when they dont offer me a bonus code, which is rare.
When you start talking about $350 charges I am thinking well fuck, thats at least 2500 minutes
And you know what happens if I break my phone? I pay $30 for a new one, and I don't even have to argue with anybody.
"His name was James Damore."
So this change is a change to the contract. If they change your contract, you can get out of it for free.
This is the first I've heard of this practice and I know I accidentally called up a data app using the wheel by accident recently so I checked my bills but there are no data charges on it. Maybe it's because I'm one of those crazy "telephones make phone calls" people and still use a Razr.
Being the kind who would rather be safe than sorry and remembering my old moto phone allowed me to customize what each of those wheel buttons did, I went to go and change it. Trouble is, that phone was bought before Verizon started forcing their standard user interface onto all phone models.
Under the forced Verizon UI the only wheel button that is allowed to be modified is the down button which doesn't map to any of their services by default so not only do you get charged if you accidentally hit the button but you can't even remap or disable the button to ensure you never accidentally press it!
Worse still, according to TFA even if you specifically call Verizon and tell them to disable all data services the very act of pressing the button only to get a message saying you can't access that results in the fee being applied because data was technically transmitted.
I was fully prepared to contact the the FCC, the FTC, the BBB and my government reps about this if I had actually seen these charges but since I haven't I can't verify that this problem actually exists.
If you have been bitten by this then by all means contact the folks above because that's about as abusively scammed as you can get by a major company.
Ha! Ha! Ha! I really screwed Verizon over!!
Hey, wait...
Point is, no matter how much Verizon sells a phone for, that phone can only do one of two things: be used to make Verizon money, or go in the trash. Is it justifiable for a CARRIER-LOCKED PHONE to be contractually *fully* subsidized by the purchaser? If this was AT&T, T-Mobile, etc. I could see the point - I take my phone and run, screwing the company out of money. But with Verizon's phones, regardless of how long I am with them - the phone will keep making them money!
I seriously doubt it,Verizon is still drooling and falling all over itself to get the iPhone. If you actually want to see the map, yeah we get a buck for that.
Why bother
People have a right to be upset.
Of course. As much of a right to be upset as if Starbucks raised their coffee prices "randomly." I just don't think it's really that big of a deal and it's certainly not somehow "unethical" ... IMO ... to raise prices.
Being in the UK my Google Voice account is pretty much useless, but doesn't GV render the changing number issue moot?
It's all fun and games until a 200' robot dinosaur shows up and trashes Neo-Tokyo... Again
They're not against it because it makes sense. They're against it because it's not "leveraging" their collusion against the consumer as profitably as possible.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
I was thinking it would be difficult to justify switching from Verizon when my current contract runs out in 2 months, but now, fuck 'em. I'm gone. I only switched to Verizon from T-mobile because the latter didn't have the Treo I wanted any more. Now they both have advanced Android models. So fuck 'em.
First rule of Verizon: the people in the stores know nothing and are not backed up by the home office.
This means the people in the stores will tell you things that are completely wrong. This can result in your being charged extra for things because the people in the stores have no ability to enforce their promises. The 800 number is the only "customer service" that exists for Verizon. Even at a "store manager" level, they have no power, no training and no ability to get anything done. This pretty much means they are there to dial the phone and put the customer on the phone with the 800 number customer service people.
The stores seem to exist to provide an image of local, in person support when none really exists. I have dealt with some good stores and some bad stores, but over all it doesn't make any difference - because the manager can promise you something or interpret some vague statement for you and then you get a bill that says exactly the opposite. Calling the 800 number gets responses like "they shouldn't have told you that" and worse.
End result is very simple. Verizon stores are perhaps a place to pick up a phone. They cannot do anything more than that for you. Expect nothing and you will not be disappointed.
It's a good thing too. It's not like this jacked up rate will apply to me since I purchased my phone quite a few months ago and I have a contract with Verizon... It's not like they can just suddenly change that on me (yeah right.. every company does that shit all the time)
I'm just sick of the fact ALL carriers advertise a plan for $45, data for $30, $15 for texting and then tack on (in my case) an extra $26 and some change as Verizon Fees... which if you read the fine print is used for "improving the network, off-setting tax imposed by government, and paying the fees to local phone system operators". I'm sorry, but shouldn't that be what the god damn plan pays for?!
Basically, Verizon is charging me for the plan, the data, the texting, and also having ME pay their taxes due to the GOVERNMENT. Fuck off Verizon
As a side note, there was a lawsuit against AT&T about pro-rating the early term fee based on how long you've had the phone. Is Verizon going to implement this? You shouldn't be charged $350 at the 18th month to cancel the phone since the $350 is to cover what they subsidized on it. If you terminate at month 2, yes, but month 18? You only have another 4 months before you can do the new for two, and not get charged... so the fee should be reduced to ($350 / 24) * ((# months you had phone) - (may two months))
When you're shopping for a new thing, what you do is: You weigh up the pros and cons of each thing available, compare those against the list of your needs, then pick the most appropriate one.
If affordable early termination is one of your specific needs, then don't buy the phone you're looking at from the provider you're looking at where early termination is a big scam. You have to weigh up the pros and cons and pick what's best for you. There are lots of phone providers, and sure - they all suck. But you pick what best meets your needs.
- And this is why I still don't have a smartphone. Because the cons [such as monthly cost c.f. my current plan] don't add up to be sufficient to meet my needs [such as affordable]. The cons of Apple's iPhone douchebaggery far outweigh the pros of having a phone I could kinda-sorta develop for.
Another simple way to avoid the problem of accidentally hitting the web browser is to remap the web browser button to something else. Even my cheap phone can do that.
Gary (-;
... because that's the thing about a good economic deal, at a certain point, if it's good enough, it can overcome your feelings and prejudices.
So, yeah, I've been thinking that maybe some of Verizon's offerings were good enough that relative to the extra amount of evil I'd have to put up with from them, it might be worthwhile.
Thankfully, though, every time I think about this, Verizon decides to up the level of evil or decrease the potential of the economic bargain.
Thanks Verizon: you and I both know it'd never work. It's good to remind each other.
Tweet, tweet.
OK, this might be mean of me to say, but here in Oz I called my monopoly 3.5G telco (Telstra) and asked them to disable my phone's data service. I left SMS and MMS active, because they're not accident prone. It took 5 minutes which included hold time and a friendly chat with the operator.
I tried doing this with Verizon. I was able to get data service disabled, but in order to do so I also had to block MMS messages, which are included with the text message plan. There was no other option. Not having to deal with random $2 charges is worth the lack of MMS for me (since I don't send them very often), but I still found it ridiculous that they couldn't be blocked separately.
I used to work in one of Verizon Wireless's call centers, and I have to say, you must have talked with a bunch of idiots. As of 5 years ago, anyway, I could tell you exactly where to look in your file in their database to tell where to verify all this information. Sounds to me like they've taken a lot of power for the CSR's to fix things, too.
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$175 to immediately break your contract =
$375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee:
$200 for the phone +
$350 to immediately break your contract =
$550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
Yeah, but what if you buy a cheapo phone and then move to a place where the service sucks and you want to switch?
Now those people are screwed, and I imagine that plenty of people want to terminate for fair reasons like that.
Personally I think the termination fee should be related to the phone you get.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
I was on Verizon for several years. After a phone went bad (dropped in a stream), I went back to get a new one and they required me to change my cell plan to a new plan where nights and weekends moved an hour later. Well, that was somewhat annoying having it move to 8:00 because most of the people I call are two time zones over. Unfortunately, that phone was an utter piece of excrement and after a few months, it started dropping calls very frequently. I called Verizon to complain, and they said there was a tower down that might be affecting things. A few months later, I moved to a different area where there was no such problem and still dropped calls. After a few months of this, I decided to get another new phone that actually worked.
Now they wanted me to move my nights and weekends to 9:00 P.M. I basically said "No way in hell. Can I get a phone without changing contracts if I pay full price?" They said no, and their only suggestion was to buy a phone on eBay. I looked at my options, priced out what I would get from other carriers, and switched to AT&T the next day. I even kept my old phone number. Even though AT&T's nights and weekends started at 9:00 just like Verizon's, I got so many more minutes than with my Verizon plan that it more than covered the difference. And when Cingular took them over and I changed to a plan with roll-over minutes, the difference became even more dramatic. Now, I'm on an iPhone plan. Every so often, I think about the friends and family who are still stuck on that nickel-and-dime-you-to-death Verizon network, and I feel sorry for them. AT&T sucks, too, of course, but not like Verizon does. It's good to see this news and know that they still haven't changed.
As for me, I can't wait for LTE rollouts to become widespread. At that point, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon will all be using compatible networks and people will be able to switch without changing phones. Then, these companies will have to start actually competing with each other instead of paying lip service to competing. You'll also see massive screaming to put an end to early termination fees if you provide your own equipment. Life will be better. Here's hoping, anyway. The only question is how long it will take before Sprint joins in and makes us a single-standard country as we should be....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is EXACTLY why I left Verizon. They may have the better network, but the crap they pull is ridiculous. Charging you for every little thing you do, crappy customer support, crappy store representatives.
I'm not a fan of AT&T, but compared to Verizon, they are angels.
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
*IF* you act on it in a certain period, usually 30-60 days. You can't just ride it for another year, and then say "Oh, that was unacceptable to me" and get out that way. If you don't immediately act, that's viewed as performance of the contract, implying its acceptability to you.
MOD PARENT UP!
I am so glad to have T-Moblie service (and Android for over a year). Not because they have great coverage (it is really good in Atlanta but bad other places), because Verizon does. I am so glad because they give the best customer service, in both the stores and on the phone.
I had huge problems with Verizon refurbished phones not working properly (went through 5 phones in 8 weeks). Three of the five didn't work properly out of the store. The other two had either the speaker or LCD mess up within a week. Every time I went to get a replacement I had to call the 800 number, hand the phone to the desk person so they would give me the replacement. PITA. I ended up forwarding my number to a Pre-Paid T-Mobile phone for 5 months before my contract ended (it was cheaper to pay the $10 a month for the family line, than the $175 break fee). I moved my number the day my contract ended. The other 3 family lines got moved within 5 days.
Sorry for the rant. VerizonWireless, and Comcast will never get a dime from me, they both offer nice products (well just Verizon), but their service is not worth the hassle. I also know a Verizon Wireless employee (accounting) that forgoes the discounted rates also 100% due to the fact their customer service sucks.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
Now that we all have video on our phones (and your iPhone) record those statements, save the video and play them back when they give you sh!t.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I too understand their reasoning: it's called profit.
They pay substantially less than the ticket price ($560) for the phone. So, when you do a purchase and cancel shuffle, and they pocket $550, they will be making the essentially the same profit as an outright purchase would have given them. They essentially lose their $10 bet that you will stick with the plan fees long enough for them to exceed this profit level (happens pretty quickly I expect). The original $375 probably also made them a small profit, but not as handsome, but was essentially a $185 bet you'd stick around.
Clearly the dynamic has changed a little, with people buying phones like fashion accessories and discarding them for the latest fad, rather than buying a phone for (egads!) making/taking phone calls and sticking to a fixed term contract. Seems that this is the logical result of that. Of course, I have never owned a mobile phone, so I could be talking crap.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
Me neither. I've actually owned two mobile ("cell") phones in my entire life (I first got a phone when I turned 18 and I'm now 30). One was a Philips C12 (also called Savvy) back when I was still in Uni many moons ago. It never cost more than about £10/month. It phoned. It texted. It picked up a signal *everywhere*, even when all the expensive crap didn't. It did what I needed at the time. I only ditched it because it didn't have a standardised SIM and the carrier discontinued its service and you couldn't use any other with it.
The other is my current phone, a Nokia 6320 (I think - too many model numbers, and I don't care). My wife bought it for me to replace the above, and she couldn't find anything more basic. It cost a £10/month contract for a year and then I could keep it (and instantly switched it to PAYG). Bluetooth (I use about once a year to backup photos from my Dad's phone). Camera (never really used). FM Radio (never used). GPRS (I use VERY, VERY rarely to check a webpage on the move... with Opera Mini and PAYG it costs me about £0.10p a time). MP3 playback and ringtones (Erm... tested it once I think - then set everything to just ring like a phone). It plays Java apps, it reads SD cards, etc.etc.etc. I don't really care.
But it picked up a signal and I took a phone call on the top of Mount Teide in the Canary Islands (I didn't know it was still switched on and the caller was my parents back in England) when nobody else's waiting on the mountain top could even *find* a carrier. I've never found someone who can pick up a signal which that phone couldn't in my own country, and it often out-performs even the iPhone's etc. at that. It has a keypad that's intuitive and easy to use and it suffers lots of stabbing and abuse and still works.
I'm the IT guy - everyone comes to me asking what to buy and in my back pocket (and which has been sat on, smashed into the ground, run over, etc. more than a few times) is an ancient Nokia that does everything I need and out-performs everyone else's flash new contract phones on all the basics (connectivity, sending a text, making a phone call, getting it to do something in only three or four clicks of a button). When they start showing off and then try and blame the network because they can't send a simple text, I whip it out and show them the four-bar signal and send a text and get a reply in seconds. If I send them a text at that point, even on the same carrier, they might get it when we come back into a populated area about an hour later or something.
It needs a new battery because I only get about an hour of talk time out of it now but that's hardly surprising. I'll buy a new battery, it'll cost about what I pay in texts each month, rather than a new phone or contract.
And you know what? I don't even notice. Friends phone, I text a lot, I dial up vendors when I can't use the switchboard at work, I do everything on the damn thing and don't even notice the cost or technology involved. I feel safe if I have it in my pocket because I know I can phone breakdown, or at least get a text to a friend. That's how tech should be - seamless, fit for purpose, not life-changing. I don't want to have to relearn my damn phone's features and menus ever year, I just want something that rings, phones and texts. Everything else is a gimmick. And if you think paying "Only £50 a month" for 24 months is a good deal if they throw in a phone... you run off and do that. Does it not occur to you that they *guarantee* themselves that they will recoup the cost of the phone from you, and more profit, in that time period? Just because the "non-contract" version is even more expensive doesn't mean you're getting a good deal by signing a ludicrous contract.
Keep your gimmicky tat. I'll have a phone that rings, thanks, and costs me next to nothing and ties me into nothing at all.
How do they subsidize with those things if you cancel?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
If you don't like the terms of the contract, shop somewhere else? Certainly you have the right to be upset, but why would you give hundreds of dollars a year to a company you're upset with?
+1 Disagree
T-Mobile and the rest are really no different. I was a T-Mobile customer for 4 years (2 year contract). Eventually, I found a new SE that I liked and wanted to upgrade. The discount I got from them was almost 1/2 the discount I would have gotten from switching to _any_ other carrier. I pointed this out, and they didn't care. So I left.
The new guy, AT&T ended up getting 4 new lines via a family plan. After that contract ended, I talked to AT&T about upgrading 2 of the phones... same issue as T-Mobile. So I talked to T-Mobile & Sprint, and even though I was coming to them with 4 phones, _each_ line would have an activation fee, and a minimum of 1 year contract. Only 2 years would give phone discounts (no bill discount).
This whole industry is so messed up. I can't even fathom the amount of money lost just from their stupidity. No to mention, we needed laws to make phones unlockable after the contract, and phone number migration.
Now a full year later, still with AT&T, but no more contracts for me. Looking at Walmart to see if they will atleast shake up the market. But I will most certainly spend the $500-600 to get a unlocked open phone and not get into a contract ever again.
That's how LNP (Local Number Portability) works. When you get a phone, the law has determined that you own the number, essentially. So you can carry your home phone number over to a cell number with tracfone, and then later take it over to AT&T, should you so desire. Most carrier's will have you set up your new account with them first, let them know where your number is coming from, and they will take care of the transfer. So you do have two accounts with the same number, albeit very briefly.
Which is a VERIZON UI.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
T-mobile's pay-as-you-go is 10 cents a minute without any need for code (assuming you put in $100 for 1000 minutes). We've been using it for 9 months and love it.
I come here for the love
This is like plugging in a desk lamp into your wall outlet for 5 minutes and ComEd charging you for an entire kWh.
That sounds like a deal to me (unless your desk lamp is rated under 12 watts).
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
The lawsuit will end up failing because they don't have set terms as to what the termination fee is to pay for. We all know that it's to 'pay for the phone' that they subsidized, but also remember that they get the phones for VERY cheap. We're talking $50 for a low end flip phone with a camera on it, and then they tell us that they actually cost them $250. Smart phones are a little different, and the market is opening up, slowly but surely. Still, I know my two year old Treo 755p doesn't cost as much as a decent laptop to produce. It's more like $100. Still, though, the cell companies will tell you that they paid $500+ for it, and will expect you to pay that much.
Anyway.
AT&T has a lot of experience with contract tomfoolery. They'll turn around and say that the early termination fee is to cover many things. The subsidizing of the phone, the 'resources' on the network that you were projected to use but aren't going to be using any more, the administration of your account, the process of disconnecting and freeing up your phone number, etc. Each one of these things SHOULD already be covered in your cell phone bill, but cell phone companies like to think that their monthly fees should be 100% profit, with their operating costs tacked on to each account, to make more money. Kind of like kids that think if they go out and waste their money on an expensive meal, that they're entitled to more allowance money, because of 'expenses'
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I used T-Moblie pre-paid for about 8 months (10cents/min, plus unlimited internet which was not supposed to happen). I ported my number from Verizon Plan, and then ported it to a T-Mobile plan. No problems.
My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
This is like plugging in a desk lamp into your wall outlet for 5 minutes and ComEd charging you for an entire kWh.
That sounds like a deal to me (unless your desk lamp is rated under 12 watts).
Forget that post. I'm an idiot (fucking unit conversions).
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
Verizon's charging for 'accidental' data usage isn't at all 'new', though they may have toughened their stance and are even more determined than before to screw you for brushing the key. The link even points out that back then the customer was billed for data usage for a phone locked in a drawer at the time. Needless to say, it was a backup service that, while being a 'free service', actually costs data, so if you don't have a data plan, signing up for the 'free' contact backup service dinged you for data you didn't sign up for... A new definition of 'free', eh? You can imagine how easy it is to get your phone's data features blocked - not happening.
And the cruel truth is that a $1.99 data charge like these amounts to pure profit. Verizon (and other carriers) would L-O-V-E to be able to increase their profit by $1.99/month PER SUBSCRIBER! This would be a massive win, by any measure!
Thieves.
But cranking up the ETR for smartphones is just plain offensive. T-Mobile is now offering plans that let you buy the phone in installments - of course, if you cancel the contract or terminate service, they expect to be paid. But, sheesh, if you buy a phone from Verizon, ditch your service, and pay the $350, does that cover the balance on the phone? I wonder.
The reality is, we may need to get ready to start buying phones like Europeans do - straight up, no discount. Unlike Europe, however, if you change carriers, you generally NEED a new phone. Verizon & Sprint, etc. use CDMA, so you need an unlocked phone to move from one to the other. AT&T and T-Mobile etc. use GSM, but wait - if you unlock your phone, it won't get 3G data on the 'other' carrier, they use different bands. So GSM phones are no solution until everyone stops with the different bands, which means jiggering the spectrum allocations and licenses, sharing networks, fixing roaming, and doing all sorts of things that they pretty much forced carriers to do in the EU, but are entirely within the competitive arena here.
We're not getting past this problem of locked phones and subsidies any time soon. It is technically not yet feasible, and I see no solution short of consolidating carriers into just two - CDMA & GSM.
And that would be ugly.
Getting some carrier to run the 700MHz spectrum nationwide doesn't solve this. It just adds a third phone type to all the crazyness.
So just get used to even more abusive behavior by the usual abusive carriers. Our only hope is to stop being so addicted to our phones. You go first, ok?
ps- Google is NOT the answer.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
And I pay $100/year for t-mobile to go. This is good for 1000 minutes (I usually use about 700/yr). I have two of these accounts (one is an unlocked iphone the other is a cheap $20 nokia that I take to places where the iphone could get lost/damaged--e.g. river rafting). I really do not see why anybody puts up to these crazy $100+/month charges.
Just change your phone settings. I'm looking at the My Shortcuts screen on my Verizon phone right now. I get to choose what the arrows do.
/. because you're a techie?
And you read
I did a bad thing and got an Iphone and left T-Moble and the smartphone I got free a year prior, since T-Mobile didn't get service in my new home. I called them to cancel, expecting to get a 200$ termination fee, but when I told them why I was canceling, they waived the fee due to my address not being in their coverage area. all they asked was I send them a copy of a bill that shows my name at that address.
Thanks to this treatment, I'll be moving back to T-mobile when/if they ever get 3g coverage in my area. It seems to me that burning your customers on the way out is a sure way to ensure they NEVER come back.
-and occasionaly a giant moose.
searswireless.com (I never thought I'd type a domain with those two words in it) has the DROID for $150 (instead of Verizon's $200), and withOUT the $100 mail in rebate. Just FYI.
Interesting little Verizon Wireless,(VW) fact that I got to experience was an ETF withdrawal for $50 out of my checking account. I don't use VW, but I do subscribe to their FIOS product; so I called the contact number associated with the transaction. Ya it was Verizon, ya it was their Wireless Department. "$50? Out of your account? We don't have a record of that transaction, ah Sir."; the joy in this woman's voice was completely unmistakable. As I got more tert, and pissed, I started to think what had to done on my end of the phone. So I called my Credit Union. "Disputted" the Transaction, now the $50 is back in my account, and Verizon can deal with a Shop Lifting problem. Then I went one step further, I notified my Credit Union NOT TO ACCEPT any more ETF requests directly from Verizon. Seeing how my problem was so funny to Verizon's Wireless staff, I figure it will be even funnier if the only way Verizon can get paid is going through their bank, first. Last month Verizon cashed my check, just like everybody else.
"Contrary to the GP's post, the penalty is, in principle, because of the phone subsidy."
I think that's incorrect.
If you get a $200 phone for $100 because of 2 year agreement, not considering interest, you think, "right, subsidy of about $4.16 per month". But yet, when you hit the 25th month, the monthly service doesn't go down by $4.16. Worse, if you bring your own phone to the carrier, they don't lower the price.
In my opinion, you're getting a subsidy for the difference between the "normal" price and the price with the two year plan because you've committed to a 24 month revenue stream. [That doesn't hold true in the second case though; if you bring your own phone and agree to a 2 year plan, you don't get a break in price]
A fair termination fee would be the difference between the phone price you paid and the phone price without plan subtracting the amount of time that you paid them for the plan. Perhaps that should even be waived if you turn in the phone.
But let's stop playing this game. Carriers charge people a lot of money for everything *because we pay it*. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I have a Nokia Tracfone, but it has similar functionality. It only took me a few minutes of poking through layers of menus to change the arrow key shortcut to "camera."
However, there is also a big internet button with a globe on it directly to the left of the very tiny "left" button you use to navigate menus. I haven't found a way to turn that button off yet.
I'd call to disable web service, but honestly I'm too lazy. There's probably a way to disable the dedicated button as well, but I'm also too lazy. I hate phones, I rarely use it, and every slip up (there's been one so far) costs me roughly 4 cents, which is a far cry from $2.
Still, it's a bastard thing to do on any phone.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Please, for the love of God and all that is decent in this world, steer clear of Verizon Wireless!!!
I am a Verizon Wireless customer. They make "horrible customer service" sound like something to aspire to.
They haven't been able to get my bill "right" for months. Every single month there are random charges tacked on, that they cannot explain when I call. Until recently, they've cancelled these charges with good apology. But now?
I have two phones suspended because they are lost. Originally, I was told I could suspend them indefinitely. Then I was told that I could only suspend them month-by-month. Then I was was told I could suspend them three months at a time. Now, they're telling me that I can only suspend 6 months per year. None of which was mentioned when I asked up front, and none of which is ever consistently said after the fact.
So I decided to buy out the contract. Get this: Not only are they're charging me for two months' service for two phones I don't even have, they're charging me for an entire two months of service for both of those two phones AFTER the contract has been cancelled by being bought out!
If you are ever, EVER tempted to go Verizon, RUN LIKE HELL OUT OF THERE. They make a pack of lying vultures being eaten by a horde of hungry lawyers seem friendly!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
The point is that they don't disable the data,
Actually, they can but you have to be obstinate to get it done. They will try to sneak it back on for a couple months, you can tell when the $5 data connection tax/fee returns to the bill. After 3 or 4 months of calling and having it removed they finally stopped. It's been a few years now, but I've also been off-contract for the last 18 months awaiting the let-down that is the Moto hemDroid.
Just bought another e815 and loaded the non-V firmware for less than $45. No data plan, no early termination fee and, best of all, no contract extension!
Thanx Verizon, for reminding me once again, I can always pay more!
Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
Good advice. What's sad however, is that the consumer is left on their own to figure out how that psycho-fuck-family is operated in the first place! At least they could provide a user manual on how THEY operate. Not some vague pamphlet with a few 1-800 numbers.
Life is not for the lazy.
This one is proportional... $10 per month IIRC... So if you canceled 23 months in, you'd only owe $105.
If carriers are going to make termination fees proportional, why not just itemize the subsidy as a "handset finance payment" on the bill?
The store you went to was populated by morons or thieves. Verizon's upgrade plan does NOT work like they told you. I've had a family share plan since they were available and I've upgraded individual handsets with no problem under the "New every Two" plan. My wife and I are eligible for upgrades three months apart and, my father is almost a year "out of sync" and so is my son.
You should have called Verizon itself rather than relying on the idiots in their stores.
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Is this really relevant to your ETF math, or are you just accepting their MSRP figure as a good starting point?
When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
At least that's how it worked when we switched from T-Mobile to AT&T to get an iPhone. The customer service people royally screwed up our phone number transfers, misled us as to how long it would take to get an iPhone when they were out of stock, misfiled the phone in their shop (so they didn't notify us when it arrived - we had to bug them to search by order number), put the wrong names on phone numbers, gave phones in our family plan the wrong extra features, claimed things were unscrewed when they weren't, repeatedly, etc...
The one thing they got right was telling us up front that "your two year period starts over when you make ANY change to your plan" - increase of minutes, add another family member, whatever. AT&T phone customer service is actually good, though. We had to call several times, but every time we called customer service, things got fixed.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
I agree highly that VZW sucks. I agree that most of their equipment sucks.
However in my experience AT&T nee Cingular sucks even worse. The old AT&T Wireless from around 2002/2003, those guys I miss.
VZW is still marginally better than AT&T. At least VZW only nickel and dimes one of me. AT&T invented a whole another me to do so, billed me full price on two versions of me for like 6 months and then tried to collect. I told em that I'm only gonna pay once. Fortunately, the 3 major CRAs saw things my way, but it still was a major pain in the rear.
So I'd rather burn in hell than switch back to AT&T. I might consider MetroPCS or T-Mobile.
The hobbling of the phone OS is optional:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/verizon-wireless-says-bring-your-own-device/
(Article from 2 years ago)
I don't understand why companies do such obviously greedy things which do nothing but create annoyed customers. I reminds me of those stupid rewind fees Blockbuster would charge. I recall they used to get like 10% of there revenue from that crap. The article is correct it is annoyingly easy to inadvertently select that Get It Now choice. Cooking up a new money stream based on user error, or worse yet encouraging user error is just wrong in my book. You always hear companies whining "Gah you can prevent (regulate) us from doing this, it would stifle innovation". I'm getting so tired of shafting people being an excuse for funding innovation.
drug dealers are probably pretty high use...I would imagine they like the anonymous prepaid phone
Bottles.
Up here, the termination fee ranged from $650CAD to $900(Telus) CAD after they factor the "data termination fee".
As for me, I can't wait for LTE rollouts to become widespread. At that point, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon will all be using compatible networks and people will be able to switch without changing phones.
No. For now only VZW and Sprint have announced they're going to LTE; most everyone else is going to UMTS before evne thinking about LTE. VZW is leading the pack on LTE as they're already working on a trial with my company. VZW should have LTE public by middle of 2010, far ahead of anyone else. And it will be awesome. :o)
Verizon has problems with their internet billing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCJ3Oz5JVKs/
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
First rule of Verizon: the people in the stores know nothing and are not backed up by the home office.
Second rule of Verizon: neither do the people on the phone. In fact, the only thing that people who work at Verizon are particularly good at is coming up with reasons why you need to pay, even when the contract is cancelled.
Expect nothing and you will not be disappointed.
That's about right for anything having to do with Verizon Wireless.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Actually I've found VZ customer service incredibly pleasant -- the hold times until you speak to a rep are rather long; but once you get a rep, it's clear they aren't measured by how fast they get you off the phone. The reps seam pleasant and remarkably well trained. (On the other hand, almost all of the VZ phones use the exact same interface so the training is easier.) I've found it relatively easy to make plan and service changes with verizon. I don't think I'd ever get a SBC (now called AT&T) phone.
Rest assured that the providers will fight tooth and nail to stop people from being able to swap phones between providers -- it's in their best interests to make phones as proprietary as possible for a host of economic reasons
Intellectual dishonesty, or merely stupidity?
Using the DROID as an example:
The DROID with no contract is $560.
Math with the current termination fee: $200 for the phone + $175 to immediately break your contract = $375 (You save $185 over the no-contract price)
Math with the new termination fee: $200 for the phone + $350 to immediately break your contract = $550 (You save $10 over the no-contract price)
Either way you save more than simply buying the phone without a contract. The new fee is high, but I can understand their reasoning.
Why do you blindly accept Verizon's word that the true cost of the DROID is $560? I don't know how much the DROID cost to manufacture, but the components of an iPhone 3GS cost $179. Assume the same for the DROID and toss in a generous amount for Motorola's assembly and R&D and I will guesstimate that Motorola can easily sell these things at $300 each and still make a reasonable profit.
Verizon wants to make it effectively impossible for people to leave so they slap on a ridiculous extra $260 to what they paid for each DROID and they announce that a no-contract phone costs $560. All of a sudden the price-gouging termination fees they charge for their plans are 'justified'.
Oh yeah, and if you pay the ridiculous termination fee you must trash your DROID as it is carrier locked. You don't even own the phone you paid for.
This is just another reminder of why we desperately need Net Neutrality to apply to wireless carriers -- Motorola would then be selling unlocked DROIDs directly to users regardless of cell phone provider. The retail price of the DROID would be determined by the open market in competition with every other model of cell phone.
Don't have a cell phone.
Problem solved.
Here's an interesting pattern I've noted. . .
1. England has been in the Empire Game longer than America.
2. It's original primary communications system, the Royal Postal Service, kicked ass. It was brought to the height of its power and reach during the construction of the Proud British Empire. When building proud empires, proud people tend to build awesome systems which work well and which are affordable for most people. (It wouldn't be much of a proud empire if some of the people were miserable.)
3. When the British Empire began to rot and crumble and lose self-esteem, the new systems it built reflected this. The land line phone system in England SUCKS. --You pay by the minute. (Or is it, by the second?) I don't know if it's still that way, but it was for a long while.
4. Now on the other side of the ocean. . , when the American Empire was under construction, the Land Line Phone System was the pride of the empire! Awesome, reliable, and generally affordable.
5. But then, as always seems to happen, when the Empire began to rot and crumble and lose self-esteem and thus require fascist attitudes to keep the corrupt in their cushy positions, the new systems being built reflected this new attitude. And thus it is that the American Cell Phone system Completely Sucks. -It penalizes the user, robbing them by the second.
I don't know if this pattern means anything, but it stands out for me.
And my solution is. . .
Don't have a cell phone.
-FL
The only reason I do not own an iPhone is that AT&T pulled too much crap like overcharging customers and forcing them into restrictive agreements. It's unfortunate that Verizon is playing ball like this, I am unlikely now to actually buy a DROID unless they make their phones available on the Sprint network.
My $0.02.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
The prob is the people in the stores are powerless. Doesn't matter what they say. You'd need to record the phone calls with the reps on the 800 number ("for quality assurance purposes") but there's no way in hell we'll see smartphones being able to, you know, *record phone calls* any time soon.
creation science book
His point was that verizon lost money from him as a customer - Verizon needs to institute better training/QA for their stores. Or just make up the loss from people leaving by increasing fees for simply holding the phone in your hands.
creation science book
By law anytime one of the carriers changes a policy that effects you in anyway, you have 30 days to contact them and refuse the new policy and cancel any contract you have with them at no charge. They are posted quite regularly at slickdeals.net and I assume other places. Just wait for something to come along (or do it now) and they are legally obligated to let you leave with no penalty.
I paid 15 bucks for my phone. A dollar to activate it and put on $10 of minutes, then another $10 for more credit that expires in 120 days.
Total cost, 26 bucks and I have service for 4 months. Then it will be another 10 bucks for another 4 months. Best Phone Ever.
Is LTE the "4G" wankery that the Sprint Commercials around here are flogging?
Why do people keep signing up for them?
And why the hell hasn't AT&T made it its mission to match or beat Verizon for coverage in every state in the union? I am sure that if it could do that, it would get a LOT of business from people who hate Verizon. Or people who want phones AT&T has but Verizon wont have (iPhone for example).
Except they ALL do it so after a year you won't have a phone company you haven't exercised your right to cancel at!
Is LTE the "4G" wankery that the Sprint Commercials around here are flogging?
No, Sprint is using WiMax instead for their 4g: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiMax and they're going to regret it.
I bet Hitler liked pre-paid cell phones, too.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Well, at least it was only $175 per line. The cancellation fee up here is $400, plus an extra $100 if you have a data plan.
On the other hand, if you watch them carefully, if they change your contract (and try to enforce the new one) you should be able to claim they've failed to uphold their end of the contract and dissolve it free and clear.
Bell made that little boo boo when they decided to charge for incoming texts.
I've heard of others getting out of contracts that way. However, I never seem to notice them informing me. No doubt they bury it in small print hidden with the bill. I throw the bills out and just pay it automatically online.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the phone shouldn't cost anywhere near $560. It probably costs Motorola less than $200 to produce the phone, and they probably sell it to VZW for less than $300. If anyone buys the phone for $560, VZW is making a killing on them.
Yeah, you have to keep an eye on them.
On the other hand, I wonder if it's considered fair play to enclose your protest to the new conditions in an envelope with your bill payment. Perhaps written on the back of the bill itself. I bet you could defend that in court, and their accounts receivable department probably doesn't talk to their contracts department very effectively.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that... slipped my mind. Sprint has gone with WiMax for their 4G, which will make them first-to-market, and first-to-bankruptcy. ;o)
I, too, have been using T-Mobile TOGO for many years. It's simple and cheap.
Another alternative is PagePlus which uses the Verizon network. Some of their recent plans are awesome - $40 for unlimited phone/text, $30 for 1200 mins + 1200 texts.
They even have the decency to bundle all the tax bullshit in the price. (Same goes for T-Mobile, 10c a minute, period.)
No, you're confusing Droid with Android. Droid is a specific Android-based phone made by Motorola and currently only available through Verizon. Droid is also, by most measures, significantly better than any other Android-based phone.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=15838&news=Motorola+Droid+Google+Android+OS+2.0+T-Mobile
That's what I found. It's important to note that the Verizon 3G and the T-Mobile 3G networks are incompatible, so you can't just get a Verizon Droid, unlock it, and use it with T-Mobile. (Even if you could, it would be expensive, and who knows how hard it will be to unlock the phone.)
If Verizon isn't paying for a significant exclusive contract on the phone, then this makes sense. Otherwise we might be seeing a year or two delay, in which time some other phone will come out with all the same features.
It doesn't matter. According to David Pogue, even if you block data, the moment you hit that button, you get sent a message that says something to the effect that "data is blocked on this device", but since that message is data, you're still charged $1.99 to receive it! They actually charge you $1.99 for that error message too.
David Pogue commentary also discusses the $1.99 fee for hitting the incorrect button on the phone, where you accidentally request a web service, no matter how fast you cancel the request you get nicked $1.99.
They then said, I'd have to pay $350. They consider family plans two seperate lines. I'd pay $175 each. Funny how it is two lines for cancellation purposes, but one plan as far as getting new phones. The weird part is that I was convinced my cancellation fee was $150 when I signed the contract.
They explained that all prices and fees can be changed at any time during the contract, and that raised my cancellation fee over the life of the contract. I was pretty livid. I ended up waiting a few months and then jumping to AT&T. Now I have a phone that doesn't get signal in half the town, but I never want to go back to Verizon's service again.
Wow, did anyone else get that. With the new ETF at $350, if you have a family plan you are out a minim of $700 or $1050 (if three phones are on the Verizon family plan). These new fees are a killer if a family breadwinner looses a job and they have to cut back. The way Verizon structures it they will think a long time before the drop Verizon cellular. They may drop cable, internet and more before they bite the bullet and drop Verizon.
Think it through. Verizon churn is up with the cream of their customers switching to AT&T and the iPhone. You raise the EFT to incredible levels to discourage people from leaving. It stops future churn. You sneak the ETF in on existing customers by having them make some minor change to their contract, they do not realize they are locked in at the new ETF. It stops future churn. You run misleading ads designed to instill fear in your customers that the iPhone network is very poor and they will not have any phone service. It stops future churn. You get an exclusive on some piece of hardware and promote it as the best thing since sliced bread and only on the Verizon network. It stops current churn, especially by adding the $350 ETF once the customer signs. It is all a clever scheme to deal with an evolving Verizon problem, many of their best customers are willing to change networks just to get an iPhone. They must be stopped by any means.
Have Verizon disable all web access from your phone. I believe you can even do it yourself through the My Verizon website.
Also, if you do end up getting charged for having accidentally hit a button, call up their billing department and explain that you hit the wrong button, and did not actually use said service - they'll usually take the charge right off.
Certainly you have the right to be upset, but why would you give hundreds of dollars a year to a company you're upset with?
For example, I'm an AT&T customer despite the fact that AT&T bent over backwards for the NSA's illegal wiretapping program. I'd love to boycott them, but none of the other providers were reluctant to play along, and I need a cellphone plan with unlimited data transfers. Who am I going to change to if I want to boycott? Nobody. I'm stuck either (a) forgoing a useful service, (b) paying more than I can afford for data from one of the small prepaid carriers, or (c) bending over and taking it.
Guess which one I'm doing.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Virgin Mobile here in Canada is (i'm guessing) the same idea; they use other carriers' towers, you buy the phone at Wal-Mart.
And seriously (not to be a shill) but their pre-paid service is vastly cheaper than any of the competition where I live (Saskatchewan). I thought the prices were pretty comparable, then I realized the other providers add service and 911 fees on top of the prices they advertise, and charge that much again for call display or voicemail. I pay $20 a month plus $0.10 a minute with unlimited texting, call display and voicemail; it doesn't get much better considering how little I talk. Not sure about their data plans though. I just can't see why people get 3-year phone plans... crazy.
I don't know why you all are so confused. The contract is pretty unambiguous to me:
> megabytes sent or received
> using Mobile Web (including
> advertising) will be aggregated each month, rounded up to the next
> megabyte, and billed at
> $1.99/MB.
> Rates are rounded to the nearest whole megabyte. One megabyte is equal
> to 1024 kilobytes.
This would imply a charge of $0 in your case. It would also charge you $2 when rounding up to the whole megabyte.
Using my verizon math skills, I can see that adding these two charges together gives us $2 + 0 = $20.
It would appear that you managed to save a whole 18 cents.
Yes, those two lines are physically next to each other on the contract. Look it up on their website if you don't believe me.
I actually thought they changed the contract on me since I remembered reading "nearest" and then saw "up to the next"
Ok, I give - I was trying to see the better side of things and give Verizon the benefit of the doubt, but after RTFA (which I did not do in this case beforehand) I have to agree with you that it's really Verizon at fault here, and furthermore with steps they noted at the end of the article to start trying to actively prevent data blocking - well that's just wrong.
So, I submit I was fully wrong in this regard and should not have tried to defend Verizon on this...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Great for you, pain in the but for some manager or waitress in the restaurant. Yes of course you can live without a cell.. It's not mandatory.. It is however handy (hey they call them handys in Germany), if not just to not inconvenience some poor waitress, then to call someone in an emergency on the road... No you don't need a smartphone, but at least cheap prepaid phone, so you don't have to be the cheap bastard nagging me to use my phone and minutes because you got a flat tire.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
Uh, no, I'm not sure where you got that, but you're pretty much completely and utterly wrong.
First, Sprint is using WiMax, not LTE for their 4G solution. They are experimenting with LTE, but as recently as a few months ago, their CEO was bashing it publicly.
Furthermore, both AT&T and T-Mobile have made it very clear that they plan to roll out LTE.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Won't work in the long run, though. CNET just started rolling out a new site (only in certain geographic areas for now) in which they provide comparisons of various providers' service in various areas. Expect this and other sites like it to decimate a lot of the carriers' scare tactics in the not-too-distant future. In my area, guess who has the best coverage? Sprint. Yeah, shocked the heck out of me, too. Either way, my iPhone gets solid enough reception that I only drop cars at a couple of intersections (and I reliably drop calls at each of those intersections, so their towers clearly just aren't aimed right). All in all, it's good enough until LTE rolls out and starts tearing down barriers.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Aaargh. Saw the typo just after I hit submit. I drop calls at a couple of intersections. I was thinking about driving and... you get the idea. Woe be onto anyone who drops cars at an intersection. The other drivers won't be happy with you.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Yeah, most Nokia phones are like that; seems like they understand the main purpose of mobile phones. Even their 20, without contract of course, 1280 (well, ok, 1280 isn't in the wild yet, but if 1100, 1200, 1202, 1208 performance is any indicator...). Helps them to be the largest phone manufacturer in the world, I imagine.
One that hath name thou can not otter
You think that's bad. My wife has a slider phone and for the first month she had it, she didn't have the key lock enabled. This means the 'up' directional is going to be pressed - often - while in a pocket or purse. And it will happen randomly. And it will be costly.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
It's these sort of buiness practices that demonstrate best why we need net neutrality. The cell phone model is just what some ISP's would like to apply to your home internet connection.
-Eric
“Texting is the closest thing to pure profit ever invented” – Sir Chris Gent, founder of Vodafone.
They explained that all prices and fees can be changed at any time during the contract
How can it be a contract then ?!? Why don't we loosen some rabid lawyers onto them just for that reason ? Oh, actually I'm pretty sure the the PDF you are supposed to download which contains your bill also has a tiny bottom line with monthly 'changes' and just receiving it is considered accepting the new contract.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Wow, this is pretty bad.
I do like the slowly lowering of the termination fee month over month, not sure if that warrants doubling the initial amount though.
The charging for "even one kilobyte--is billed as 1MB" sounds really shady to me and would make me question my carrier, no matter who it was at the time.
I do feel that the article is somewhat disjointed though, as it goes from discussing termination fees for smart phones (which often have data plans) to data charges on all the other phones to the point of mentioning how most of the non-smart phones have dedicated keys for some form of web access.
Two interesting points, poorly constructed transition from one to the next..
I'm not saying whether $560 is fair or not, but that's the price, so the new ETF still enables you to give yourself an instant $10 discount.
I have no idea how much the phone costs VZW, but I'm with you... I would never pay that much.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
They won't do it, because too many deadbeats will take advantage of it, but the first carrier that sells the phone, unlocked, without a long term contract is where I'm going. Wireless providers should use the old "landline" model. We (consumers) provide the phone, the carrier provides the connection.
Ah yes, you are completely right. I had forgotten about that. Nothing like a too-little, too-late, knee-jerk reaction, though. They're all way behind on the future data curve.
Sprint will be (is?) first to market with their craptastic WiMax, and LTE will be rolled out by VZW publicly in 2010. All the others will follow and be playing catch-up.
ATT really annoys me. They don't like to spend any money at all, and are only now announcing plans to spend money reactively because they've been able to rip off and con so many iPhone users for so long now, and some of the iPhone users are starting to become disenchanted with the coverage and (lack of) data speeds. VZW, on the other hand, always has spent money proactively on infrastructure, and as such has generally been ahead of the game.
I own both an N800 and an N810. I want an N900. I so very much would love to use the N900 as my phone. Unfortunately, like with real estate where it's "location location location" and software it's "developers developers developers" for cell phones it's "network network network" and Verizon kicks every other US provider's ass when it comes to the network.
So I think this weekend I'll probably get a Droid. It's not as open as the N900, true. But I have the Android SDK installed and can write Java apps. It is pretty open. The Android platform is way more open than every other platform sans Maemo.
About two years ago I sat in a cell phone 'store' going over the whole printed contract. Curiously, they couldn't provide it to me over the counter and had to have it faxed over from the mother ship. Anyway, I started red lining parts of the contract. They actually started to laugh at me. Yes, I know there was no way they had any sort of agency to accept my changes, but I was trying to make a point over a service issue at renewal time.
On a serious note, next time you hit walls like that, simply engage your state's Attorney General office. No, they aren't going to sue for you, but they do track these sorts of things and contract law is still contract law. Just because someone says they can do it, doesn't mean they really can. A real life business style letter sent the company with a CC to the AG can work wonders. Ignore the storefront drones and aim at corporate.
THIS is why Apple had to go with AT&T and not Verizon. Verizon may have the better network on paper, but I'm sure they would have buckled under the bandwidth issues presented by the iPhone explosion, just like AT&T. At least AT&T had the sense to listen to Apple about how the phone should be bundled, and now they are reaping the rewards.
They all suck, but I have a special dark place in my heart for Verizon's shitty behavior.
For that particular phone it is completely relevant. If you go into a store and ask them for a DROID with no contract that is the price.
They do have cheaper phones where the math would be more in their favor and they also have more expensive phones where the math would swing more to your favor.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
But what if you didn't know about the change? Isn't playing armchair lawyer fun?
Exactly. Companies are in business to make money.
Thank you for understanding that when I said you save X amount that I wasn't claiming Verizon was losing X amount. It just comes out of their markup.
Nobody that I know of has been forced into a cell phone contract. Rather, those of us that have contracts have been persuaded into it which works because, as you point out, there is such strong demand for the latest and greatest.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
I think you're allowed out of your contract if you move out of the service area, but I'm not sure of that.
They aren't relating the ETF directly to the phone you buy, but they are relating it to the class of phone you buy; the $350 fee only applies to "advanced devices."
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
T-Mobile is generally pretty good. People do complain about the coverage, but in my area it's better than Verizon's.
We were on Verizon for the length of our contract plus 11 months. Then we switched to Sprint. Verizon wanted us to pay the early cancellation fee, despite there being nothing "early" about it. Their claim was that by continuing to use the phone we had renewed the contract. Yeah, right. It's only taken three years, but their collections people have finally stopped calling us.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I just looked at completed listings on ebay and I see plenty of DROIDs that have sold for anywhere from $400 to $620 (don't ask me why anyone would pay more than the retail price), so it's not as if you are stuck with the phone and its cost if you decide to bolt to another company.
If you don't like the vendor lock-in that comes with a CDMA phone then nobody is stopping you from using AT&T or T-Mobile. Verizon is not a monopoly.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
Now that's a reasonable argument. Although they also have phones that cost more than $560, so it goes both ways.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
While I don't have an 'internet based' phone like the aforementioned (I'll add the Pre & HTC to the list) - I do have a Palm Treo ... I can do whatever I want on the internet at no extra charge - including 'tethering'. Now - I can upgrade my $30/mo plan to $60/mo and use an 'internet based' phone as well.
My point here is that Verizon has extensive 3G coverage ONLY because it has a deal to USE Sprint's 3G network! I have "Verizon's Coverage" without Verizon's prices - on Sprint.
Got a link?
I have poor Verizon signal in my house, and Sprint was just as bad when I was demo-ing the Palm Pre... well I took the Pre back (and am regretting it), so when I got Google Voice, I just knew I'd move to Skype for home service, and get a halfway decent sim-based phone solution. So as much as I'd love to get the Pre, I'm waiting on a Tmobile/AT&T Android phone I like.
Dear Congress/FCC:
Buying a cellphone shouldn't be an arduous task like buying a car.
Thank you very much.
Regards,
-Chris Kaminski
I don't know about that... I had that feature on my Palm Treo 650p... And IIRC it was provided as part of the Verizon default install package. I never moved it over to my 700p when I upgraded. :-/
I think you're allowed out of your contract if you move out of the service area, but I'm not sure of that.
They aren't relating the ETF directly to the phone you buy, but they are relating it to the class of phone you buy; the $350 fee only applies to "advanced devices."
Ah, i missed that. Well that's not as bad.
I do with the ETF dropped more quickly though. If you've got a dataphone, you're likely spending $80+ a month at verizon, but they only chip $10 off your ETF each month. I feel like they're making more than $10 a month off of me, so as long as they're getting their subsidy back plus a little extra, i should be able to terminate in 1 year without still having to pay $230. But then, I guess they have 2 years contracts to try to keep you for 2 years, so I dunno.
-Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
I sent the following fax to Verizon yesterday. A Verizon exec yesterday afternoon called me back who said that "it was a business decision to require a data plan for all smartphones."
They're willing to let this 10+ year customer go. When my wife and I change carriers to something with a less pricey plan, I will send them pictures of us ex-Verizon customers enjoying our new smartphones.
Please send faxes to Verizon explaining that requiring a data plan is wrong. Maybe they'll listen if more people complain.
Thank you for your assistance.
BEGIN FAX:
Lowell McAdam
President & CEO
Verizon Wireless, Inc.
VIA FAX: 1-949-286-7570
Subject: why can I not get a Windows Mobile, Android, or Blackberry phone without a data plan?
Dear President and CEO McAdam or To Whom It May Concern,
My name is [name redacted]. I have been a Verizon Wireless customer since Verizon bought AirTouch San Diego back in the late 1990's.
My wife and I both need cell phones for phone calls, SMS, and MMS. My enV and my wife's VX8300 handle these functions well.
In addition to carrying our phones, we've both been also carrying around Palm Pilots. Why? Because our BREW-based don't offer -- and there are apparently no apps that offer:
- calendar applications that can display daily and weekly information well on the screen, as well as make it easy to set up appointments (the ones listed don't seem to cut it)
- a task manager
- the ability to back up the calendar and task manager data
Now I'm a software developer; I have both a Bachelors of Science and a Masters of Science in Information and Computer Science from UC Irvine. So I don't think I'd have a problem writing BREW apps to handle those functions. But there's a $400 entry fee to get BREW apps approved even though I only want to write programs for our personal phones. I sent an email through your customer service page to you asking if there is some way to get around this ridiculous expense; so far, I have not heard back.
We recently went to our local store ([city redacted], CA). We looked at the BREW-based phones; none of them offer the improved calendar that I'm seeking, a task manager, or the ability to back up the calendar and task manager data.
We poked at the Windows Mobile, Android, and Blackberry phones. My wife likes the calendar on the Windows Mobile 6.1 phones and I'm going to try to find a Windows Mobile 6.5 phone for her to play with. But all three of these types of phones require a $30 monthly data plan -- which would be $60 a month total -- on top of the $70 a month for our current phone plan. We have cable Internet at home; both of us agree that we can do without Internet or email on our phones.
I emailed your customer service team (the reply came back with the code [code redacted]). Basically, they told me nothing I didn't know.
So I am now faxing you, appealing to you to figure out a way for us to not have to purchase a monthly data plan. We are truly considering moving to a different service as our 2 year contract is up at the end of this month.
Please let me know if there is anything you can do to help. You can reach me on my Verizon Wireless cell phone at [number redacted].
Thank you,
[name redacted]
I think it should prorate faster too. There's no sense in having to pay $120 to break your contract at the 23 month mark.
I have a woman and money. Life is good.
Finally found one linked from the web. http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/at-t-formerly-cingular/4599-6454_7-32137726.html?carrier=&mode=voice
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Not to pile onto the "Wal*Mart sucks" bandwagon, but read this and either you'll never shop at Wal*Mart again, or you already shop there and this article will only make you shop there more:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/11/07/16449
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Is this some kind of hit piece to try and convince people not to use Verizon instead of AT&T?
I've never had Verizon, but we got fed up with AT&T's generally crappy customer service, and how they lied to us for six weeks about getting internet installed at our new house, and how they kept adding random mysterious charges to our cellphone bill. We switched to T-Mobile and haven't looked back. T-Mobile hasn't fucked us over yet, but they ARE a giant corporation, so that'll probably happen eventually.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I know I'm posting in a dead thread, but thanks for finding that.