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The Languages of "The Office"

Venkat Rao has followed up his analysis of office dynamics as reflected in The Office, which we discussed last month, with one titled Posturetalk, Powertalk, Babytalk and Gametalk. The Office is running a little thin of meaty examples to make his points in delineating the ways of PowerTalk — the language of the Sociopaths — so Rao reaches out to Goodfellas, Wall Street, The Boiler Room, and Making Jack Falcone. The entire analysis illuminates and is illuminated by a diagram of the disparate languages that Sociopaths, the Clueless, and Losers speak to each other and among themselves.

18 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. Let me get this straight by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Didn't read TFA - just skimmed it a bit, but let me get this straight, some guy has analysized a bunch of fake conversations (that were created by the various shows' writers) in order to produce an explanation of real world office dynamics?

    Do I have that right?

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    1. Re:Let me get this straight by dave562 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, you have it right. I made it about half way through the article before my eyes glazed over. I wonder what category the author puts himself in.

    2. Re:Let me get this straight by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Funny

      Idunno. What kind of a sociopath divides the entire world into the "clueless", the "losers", and the "sociopaths"?

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    3. Re:Let me get this straight by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but... is the The Office, or the US version?

      The original was unbelievably true to dysfunctional form. I Everyone I know says "yeah, I used to work for a guy like that". that's mainly what made it so popular. The US version... well, I believe they altered it to make it fit the US culture, mini series format, product placement and got a pit of writers in to add some jokes and make it run for half a dozen series. I'm sure the joke wore thin after the 1st.

    4. Re:Let me get this straight by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know, right? It's almost as if he were pretending that the conversations in The Office were like, extreme examples of the things that people do, in fact, run into every day in office situations and then using them as exemplars, and that he also thought maybe more people have seen The Office than would be privy to the goings on at McManus, Kinsey & Schmidt Box & Container Manufacturers. What kind of insanity as this?

      It would have been MUCH better if he used really tame or low-key examples from some office in the middle of Podunk, Iowa that nobody has ever heard of, because that would just work so much better for an article intended for a nation/world-wide audience. EVERYONE knows how Jeanne in Accounts Payable is like this while Frank in Customer Service is like THAT. Cause that stuff is REAL, yo.

      Gotta keep it real.

      Does it also bug you that people study literature or historical accounts which may very well be somewhat fictionalized/idealized portrayals of real events, and attempt to use them to understand human interaction?

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    5. Re:Let me get this straight by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the US version fits US Business even better- and if that scares you, well, it should.

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    6. Re:Let me get this straight by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Idunno. What kind of a sociopath divides the entire world into the "clueless", the "losers", and the "sociopaths"?

      Clearly the kind who is a clueless loser...

    7. Re:Let me get this straight by icebraining · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mod parent up. The UK version is a real observation of life, much like The Royle Family, and its accuracy is what makes those shows great.

      Someone once said to me: "Steve Carell tries to be funny. Ricky Gervais acts like a guy trying to be funny".

  2. not sure I totally agree with what he says by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's certainly layers of nuance and meaning that can get heaped onto human communication. As an aspie geek, it's very easy for me to get what was literally said and completely blow past the subtext. "What's wrong?" "Nothing." "Ok! I'll be on my way." Nooo, that's the nothing that means there's something and I'm supposed to fish.

    However, the author really starts heaping on the layers of meaning in his examples. It reminds me of the conference scenes from Dune where whole conversations are intuited from the lifting of an eyebrow. "I knew it, he knew it, he knew I knew he knew it, but he didn't realize I knew he knew I knew he knew it. The twitching of my pinkie finger drew his attention away from my own eyebrow thus concealing my knowledge." Puts me in mind of great bits of comedy where sophisticated and devious characters are speaking obliquely around a topic of great significance, doing so in such a way that they soon realize they're not entirely sure if they're both having the same conversation.

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    1. Re:not sure I totally agree with what he says by LehiNephi · · Score: 3, Informative

      And just like he did, you entirely missed the underlying meaning. The other party in that not-so-hypothetical conversation isn't a real man, precisely because that other party is female.

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  3. i hope everyone realizes by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    that these stereotypes of behavior are aspects of everyone's personality, including yours

    i would have hoped that people would have realized thinking about the world in this cliquish way went out of fashion in high school. simply because you realized in high school (or should have realized) that people aren't cartoonish cardboard cut-outs of one dimensional behavior

    show me someone who is supposedly dead center for being, say, the "sociopath", and i'll show you their empathetic qualities. now also show me someone who is supposedly far removed from being the "sociopath" and i'll show you the sociopathic side to their personality

    it makes for good television, but real people are a lot more complex than this derivative reductionist thinking that sells people short. its entertaining, but in real life, its brutalizing to your social interaction

    thinking about people this way only hurts you, in the end, by hobbling you with a poor model of human thinking and interaction. such that you reduce the richness of your own social experience up front before you even have a chance, because your mentality has overly simplified the people around you. you sell them short, and in turn, you only wind up selling yourself short

    in other words, you've become the source of the problem: i would call a person who uses these stereotypes as a way of thinking about people around them the only truly one-dimensional stereotype that has a ring of truth: "the feckless tool"

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    1. Re:i hope everyone realizes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I too once thought as you do. Then I met WAY more people than I ever wanted to. These sterotypes *DO* exist. They even strive to live up to the expectation of the sterotype. They are actually proud of the 'highs' and 'lows' of each one. They embrace it.

      Are they totaly 1 dimensional? No. But they do not stray far from it. I can think of at least 5 people I have met (out of hundreds) that exhibit 1 dimensional behavior.

      They do exist. Some have learned to hide it as they know what they do is somehow 'wrong'. Most people are a bit more well rounded though.

      Also what you see on tv/movies is usually the exaggerated version. Why? Because it gives the show a focus.

  4. Tell the Guild by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article is about the sociological maladjustment of screenwriters.

    It has nothing to do with real dynamics, or actual language used by anybody.

    --
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    1. Re:Tell the Guild by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not so sure. For one, I'm probably reading this slightly differently because the most I've watched The Office is during previews of reruns on an off channel interjected into Simpson's shows, so the character names mean nothing to me.

      My career so far fits his stereotypical loser: due to my autism, I'm unable to make the low-work, high value deals of the sociopaths. Due to my idiot-savancy, I'm too smart to do any more than the minimum necessary. So I'm certainly usually in "wait out the clock mode" except for the few times a week somebody brings me an interesting problem and I jump into clueless mode enough for them to keep me around. (usually- doesn't always work and I've been both first and last laid off in downturns).

      Despite my brilliant ideas, I do speak in something very like his Gamespeak, in that I view economics as a problem in Game theory. Due to that, I seem to run into mental blocks talking to sociopaths; the biggest two are their belief that *hard work=success* vs my belief in luck, combined with their belief in infinite resources available vs my belief in a finite world bordered such to create a zero sum game.

      Due to that, we're talking different languages so much that the black line on this guy's diagram represents an utter lack of communication.

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  5. Writers never worked in a real office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Office and other Workplace fiction are written by people who have never worked in a real world workplace, or if they have it was merely as a stopping point for them.

    Thus they don't know a thing about it...but...they're creating an entertaining fiction. To acurately reproduce workplace interaction would be very boring TV. So they're doing what they need to do...but there's no reason to try and interpret that dialogue as if it were real.

  6. Re:American version Office, or the real one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just because there's a lot of crap, doesn't make it good.

  7. Re:American version Office, or the real one? by PitaBred · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have two words for you: "Dr. Who"

  8. Re:This is crap. by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not meant to be a dig at the military- if anything, I have great respect for those willing to go above and beyond the "bare necessity" that I do.

    In fact, I'd say that the country *owes* a full retirement to anybody who has ever been in combat- that "little bit of money off the GI Bill" is an example of the sociopaths politicians disrespecting the value of your service. The reason this stereotype calls you clueless is because you don't realize just how little they gave you in return for you risking your life.

    But they're definitely an example of the "clueless"- because that's what the clueless do; risk their lives in return for a "little bit of money off the GI Bill".

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.