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TSA Changes Its Rules, ACLU Lawsuit Dropped

ndogg writes "Earlier this year, there was much ado about a Ron Paul staffer, Steve Bierfeldt, being detained by the TSA for carrying large sums of money. The ACLU sued on his behalf, and the TSA changed its rules, now stating that its officers can only screen for unsafe materials. With that, the ACLU dropped its suit. '[Ben Wizner, a staff lawyer for the ACLU, said] screeners get a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches, strictly to keep weapons and explosives off planes, not to help police enforce other laws.'"

33 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe it's just me by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I'd have rather have a legal precedent set VS a rule that can be changed back.

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    1. Re:Maybe it's just me by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you think the rules were changed in the first place? The system works as follows: Now those rules are changed to avoid a precedent. Then we wait 'til the waves settle and use the time to think up a more bulletproof version, including terrorists, pedophiles and ... well, whatever other boogeyman shows up in the meantime. Then anyone protesting or even arguing against it is vilified.

      You didn't get the memo?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Maybe it's just me by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd have rather have a legal precedent set VS a rule that can be changed back.

      I hear you, but let's not forget that the supreme court has a very spotty record when it comes to enforcing the bill of rights. I'm not sure I'd like to roll the dice on them upholding the fourth or fifth amendment.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  2. the more things change... by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Informative

    She said the directives would not be released unless a Freedom Of Information Act request was submitted by The Washington Times.

    The law is not available for inspection, citizen. Now drop your pants.

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    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  3. Also: by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Informative

    TSA spokeswoman Lauren Gaches said the new "internal directives" are meant to ensure their screeners are consistent. She acknowledged the policy on large sums of cash had changed, but wouldn't provide a copy of either document. She said the directives would not be released unless a Freedom Of Information Act request was submitted by The Washington Times.

    Fuck that.

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    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Also: by pete-classic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This seems to be another exemption from President Obama's promise of transparency in government. In fact, I'm not sure I'm able to distinguish his policies from his predecessor's.

      -Peter

    2. Re:Also: by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you think his ability to make changes is so great that he could have changed everything by now, you are a damn fool. If you vote as if politicians will quickly achieve all of their stated goals regardless of the opposition they may face, you are poison.

      (I voted for Obama, but mostly because he wasn't McCain-Palin, not because I thought he was going to be so different than his predecessors)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Also: by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like it's time to submit a FOIA request.

    4. Re:Also: by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you think his ability to make changes is so great that he could have changed everything by now, you are a damn fool.

      I don't think he can change everything, but the TSA is part of the Executive Branch.
      Obama is the Executive. As Executive, he can issue "Executive Orders" telling them what to do.
      Oh wait! He did!

      January 21, 2009
      ...
      All agencies should adopt a presumption in favor of disclosure, in order to renew their commitment to the principles embodied in FOIA, and to usher in a new era of open Government. The presumption of disclosure should be applied to all decisions involving FOIA.

      The presumption of disclosure also means that agencies should take affirmative steps to make information public. They should not wait for specific requests from the public. All agencies should use modern technology to inform citizens about what is known and done by their Government. Disclosure should be timely.

      This isn't a problem with Obama, it's a problem with the TSA and their culture of secrecy.

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    5. Re:Also: by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      This isn't a problem with Obama, it's a problem with the TSA and their culture of secrecy.

      Sure sounds like it. The spokesperson essentially admitted that they would disclose it in response to a FOIA request and Obama's order essentially says that if it would be released under FOIA, then just release it now and skip the song-and-dance. The TSA complains that it is unfairly maligned, but insisting on the song-and-dance like that is exactly the kind of BS that makes people lose any faith or confidence in the agency that they might have had.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Also: by LordNimon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you know that there are more than two sides? You could have voted for any of the dozens of other individuals/parties running for President. I voted for the Libertarian candidate, Bob Barr.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    7. Re:Also: by jamstar7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I kind of wish McCain of 2000 was running in the last election instead of McCain of 2008.

      He didn't get the nod in '00 because he wasn't tight with the neocons. Dubya was, so he got the nod.

      Personally, as a Republican, I'd LOVE to get my party away from the neocons.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    8. Re:Also: by mhall119 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Good luck with that

      --
      http://www.mhall119.com
    9. Re:Also: by CecilPL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You need to take a longer term view. Your vote serves to do more than simply help that candidate win that election. It also serves to increase (however slightly) the profile of that candidate, and by extension the party. Every vote that goes to a third party is one that helps further the belief that a third party candidate is viable.

  4. Re:In other news... by girlintraining · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...people with large sums of money have more freedoms than people who don't.

    He had a large sum of money on him, and as a result was detained for hours and strip-searched, as well as being accused of being a terrorist and denied access to a lawyer or charged with any crime. Meanwhile, the guy who only had $15 and a cracker in his pocket was able to get on the plane. Tell me again how the guy with the money had more freedoms in this case?

    --
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  5. $4500 a "large sum of money" for travel? by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm surprised the TSA considered $4500 to be a "large sum of money". That's about two weeks of business travel. If that.

    With current credit card fees, it may be more cost-effective to carry cash. Even if you get robbed 1% of the time, you're still ahead.

    1. Re:$4500 a "large sum of money" for travel? by BigForbis · · Score: 5, Informative

      The law is not that you cannot carry more the $10,000 in or out of the country, but simply that you must declare it to customs when you transport more than $10,000 in and out of the country.

      --
      Remember, 50% of people are below average...
  6. Re:In other news... by captjc · · Score: 5, Funny

    I dont have to "tell you again" about your straw-man. Its your straw-man, perhaps you should have given it the ability to speak.

    This is my straw-man. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My straw-man is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My straw-man, without me, is useless. Without my straw-man, I am useless. I must use my straw-man true. My straw-man and myself know that what counts in this flamewar is not the illogic we fire, the noise of our post, nor the sense we make. We know that it is the diversion of the argument that count. My straw-man is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weakness, its strength, and its straw. I will keep my straw-man clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. Before The Flying Spaghetti Monster I swear this creed. My straw-man and myself are the defenders of the internet. We are the masters of our argument. We are the saviors of my ego. So be it, until victory is mine and there is no enemy, but conformity.

    --
    Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  7. Cash is the anonymous proxy for economic networks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And there is nothing the government hates more than anonymity. Can't tax it, track it and control it unless it is electronic, and traceable. That is why they hate cash so much. The only possible reason for economic anonymity is nefarious. You must be using it to avoid taxation or buy or sell something the government doesn't think you should have or fund terrorists. Cash must be stamped out.

  8. Ok to carry drugs now? by Oyjord · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "...screeners get a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches, strictly to keep weapons and explosives off planes, not to help police enforce other laws."

    Hmm. Does this means it's ok now to carry my blow in my pocket when I fly home to visit the folks during Xmas? I'm tired of carrying it...up there.

    1. Re:Ok to carry drugs now? by Bob9113 · · Score: 4, Funny

      "...screeners get a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches, strictly to keep weapons and explosives off planes, not to help police enforce other laws."

      Hmm. Does this means it's ok now to carry my blow in my pocket when I fly home to visit the folks during Xmas? I'm tired of carrying it...up there.

      Probably not. The quote came from the ACLU, and only refers to the limits of governmental authority established in The United States Constitution. The United States government does not operate within the bounds of that charter.

  9. Interpretation, not exception by mangu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can actually get 'narrow exceptions' to the fundamental rights?

    No, it's not an exception to the Fourth Amendment. It's only an interpretation that looking for guns and explosives when people board a plane does not constitute an "unreasonable search and seizure", but looking for anything else is "unreasonable".

     

  10. Re:B 'fing' S by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Informative

    You know who I blame for this? YOU(me). When was the last time any of us rioted in the streets to stop this kind of BS? been a while huh? wonder why the Gov. can pass anything they like on a whim? The only people they answer to is themselves.

    April 15th, July 4th, and September 12th. But it wasn't really a riot, and the numbers vary based on who is telling the story...

  11. Ron Paul supporters can take a deep breath by BitHive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The system basically worked here, the offended party was able to use the system to address his grievance. Let's not forget that for all our bluster about liberty and freedom there are some places where a real politically-motivated detainment could have meant death or worse.

    1. Re:Ron Paul supporters can take a deep breath by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the system didn't fully work. The TSA changed its "internal policies".. That is much different than a legal precedent, and of course, they can be changed right back, in a month. A person violating "internal policies" might get "disciplined" which is a long way from what's going to happen to someone for willfuly violating your rights. (And really, some of those minimum wage power tripping ego's really do need to get knocked back a few notches.) Also, if I'm not mistaken, pretty much all of the airports use Contractors to actually hire the agents. I'm not sure exactly how much training the employees get, since that would cut into the companies profits...

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    2. Re:Ron Paul supporters can take a deep breath by bcrowell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The system basically worked here, the offended party was able to use the system to address his grievance. Let's not forget that for all our bluster about liberty and freedom there are some places where a real politically-motivated detainment could have meant death or worse.

      Yes, but to me the real point to keep in mind is that since 9/11, we've been on the slippery slope toward becoming one of those bad places you're describing. And let's also remember that the whole reason Guantanamo exists is so that some parties will not be able to use the system to address their grievances.

      I have a recurring alert in my calendar to donate $100 every July 1 to the ACLU, PO box 96265, Washington, DC 20090-6265. I hope everyone here who's posting about what a great victory this was will do something similar. (Note that contributions to the ACLU are not tax-deductible because they use more than a certain % of their money for lobbying.)

      What I really love about the ACLU is that even though they're basically a bunch of liberal Democrats, they take cases strictly on what they perceive as the case's legal importance for civil liberties. Most people associated with the ACLU probably think Ron Paul is the antichrist, but they took this case because it was a good, important case.

  12. Re:In other news... by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, if the guy with a cracker had a bottle of soda instead, the roles would have been reversed but he wouldn't be released with a change of rules to take home.

    More often than not, that bottle of soda gets chucked into a 30 gallon garbage bin sitting next to the security screeners.
    Which tells you how dangerous they really think it is.

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  13. three cheers for Steve Bierfeldt by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Three cheers for Steve Bierfeldt! Most people are sheep, and wouldn't even think of standing up to authority like this. Of those who aren't sheep, very few would do it despite the inconvenience of missing your flight and the implicit threat of going to jail in a country that no longer thinks it's necessary to give people trials. Listen to the audio he recorded on his iPhone. The TSA guys are cussing at him, and then you hear a loud noise that sounds like someone pounding on a desk. You can hear the stress in Bierfeldt's voice, but he's not backing down just because it's a psychologically intimidating situation. I consider Steve Bierfeldt to be a hero.

    1. Re:three cheers for Steve Bierfeldt by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's interesting how the TSA person sounded in this. Steve keeps asking him 'am I required by law to answer that question' and the TSA operative never once says yes or no. It sounds like he actually doesn't know, which is quite worrying. You'd have thought that some basic education in the relevant parts of the law would be part of basic training for TSA guys - even an afternoon session would have covered that.

      The most interesting thing, however, was that he was told that he would be taken to the police station (which meant the DEA or FBI office), against his will, without being arrested and, most importantly, without being read his rights. I would be very surprised if this is legal. Even the police aren't allowed to do that: they can ask you to go with them (and you are free to refuse), or they can arrest you. If they arrest you, then they are required to read you your rights and to maintain a proper custody chain (i.e. the arresting officer is 100% responsible for you until he has received some paperwork where someone else takes responsibility).

      Well done to Steve Bierfeldt for not backing down and not losing his temper.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:three cheers for Steve Bierfeldt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The most interesting thing, however, was that he was told that he would be taken to the police station (which meant the DEA or FBI office), against his will, without being arrested and, most importantly, without being read his rights. I would be very surprised if this is legal. Even the police aren't allowed to do that: they can ask you to go with them (and you are free to refuse), or they can arrest you. If they arrest you, then they are required to read you your rights and to maintain a proper custody chain (i.e. the arresting officer is 100% responsible for you until he has received some paperwork where someone else takes responsibility).

      TheRaven64 is very wrong. I am a law enforcement officer. First of all, your Miranda rights are only read to you if you are *in custody* (not free to leave) and are being questioned for a criminal offense. Being arrested does not automatically invoke Miranda. I have arrested LOTS of people who are never advised of their Miranda rights, because they aren't being questioned. Arrest someone for a warrant for not paying fines? There's no questions to ask, they are going to jail. Arrest someone for another agency's warrant? You don't know what questions to ask, and they are going to jail. The list could go on and on.

      Secondly, I have arrested hundreds of people and can tell you that the "property custody chain" makes no sense. We don't sign people over and receive receipts from other officers or jails when you are booked in.

      Sorry, TheRaven64, but you don't know what you are talking about.

  14. Re:Is it now legal to carry large sums of money? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Within the US, yes of course it is. Why wouldn't it be?

    Look up how governments use civil forfeiture, and be enlightened.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  15. did not vote at all? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only office you consider voting for, then backed down, was for the federal office of president?

    You did not vote for your federal level house rep or senators, or any state/county/city level offices?

    Some white guy in a wig, now long dead, once said: "We do not have a government of the majority. We have a government of the majority who choose to participate."

  16. Re:Gray areas by gavron · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Please don't make this "about the children" or "stop the Nazis." It's about the TSA abusing their positions.

    They are not police, have no police powers, and are bullies and dragoons.

    E
    P.S. I'm calling modified Godwin's Law on this.