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Psystar Crushed In Court

We've been following the case of Mac cloner Psystar for some time now. Apple was just handed a summary judgement over Psystar, and as usual Groklaw has the scoop. Here is the order (PDF), though PJ supplies it in text form at the link above. "Psystar just got what's coming to them in the California case. ... It's a total massacre. Psystar's first-sale defense went down in flames. Apple's motion for summary judgment on copyright infringement and DMCA violation is granted. Apple prevailed also on its motion to seal. Psystar's motion for summary judgment on trademark infringement and trade dress is denied. So is its illusory motion for copyright misuse. ... So that means damages ahead for Psystar on the copyright issues just decided on summary judgment, at a minimum. The court asked for briefs on that subject. In short, Psystar is toast." Reader UnknowingFool adds, "There are still issues to be decided but they are only Apple's allegations: breach of contract, induced breach of contract, trademark infringement, trademark dilution; trade dress infringement, state unfair competition, and common law unfair competition. Even if Psystar wins all of them, it is unlikely to help them very much."

99 of 640 comments (clear)

  1. This comment surprises me by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know. They'll say, but, but, but ... what if they hadn't used the master and just used each copy, then would it work? Sons, why do you think Psystar used the master copy? Because it's a business, and in a business, efficiency is money. That's why businesses set themselves up, to make money. The whole world is not with you on a holy war to destroy EULAs and the GPL. Even this rinkydink business wanted to make money. Theoreticals belong on message boards, not in business and definitely not in courtrooms, and even on message boards, everyone told you for years that this wouldn't work out if someone tried it. It's been tried. It didn't work out. ... coming from Pamela, who revealed that Microsoft played no small role funding the SCO debacle though bogus license purchase.

    If you follow patent troll cases for example, you would know that shell business are often set up by litigants for the sole purpose of facilitating a lawsuit. Once you've acquired your defunct IP, you set up a web site to demonstrate intent to sell a product. Sure it's not strictly necessary to test the patent but it can help when it come times to assess damages, and it garners judge and jury sympathies (especially if you can get it tried in the Texas east district).

    So, who was behind Psystar? Dell perhaps? There's no chance in hell a startup box builder would go to these lengths to test a legal theory. Their vested interest in the supposed business was a pittance compared to the cost to fight this, so where'd they get the money?

    Obviously, Psystar was staged for the exclusive purpose of being sued .

    1. Re:This comment surprises me by causality · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know. They'll say, but, but, but ... what if they hadn't used the master and just used each copy, then would it work? Sons, why do you think Psystar used the master copy? Because it's a business, and in a business, efficiency is money. That's why businesses set themselves up, to make money. The whole world is not with you on a holy war to destroy EULAs and the GPL. Even this rinkydink business wanted to make money. Theoreticals belong on message boards, not in business and definitely not in courtrooms, and even on message boards, everyone told you for years that this wouldn't work out if someone tried it. It's been tried. It didn't work out. ... coming from Pamela, who revealed that Microsoft played no small role funding the SCO debacle though bogus license purchase.

      If you follow patent troll cases for example, you would know that shell business are often set up by litigants for the sole purpose of facilitating a lawsuit. Once you've acquired your defunct IP, you set up a web site to demonstrate intent to sell a product. Sure it's not strictly necessary to test the patent but it can help when it come times to assess damages, and it garners judge and jury sympathies (especially if you can get it tried in the Texas east district).

      So, who was behind Psystar? Dell perhaps? There's no chance in hell a startup box builder would go to these lengths to test a legal theory. Their vested interest in the supposed business was a pittance compared to the cost to fight this, so where'd they get the money?

      Obviously, Psystar was staged for the exclusive purpose of being sued .

      It makes you wonder. Incidentally, it's amazing how often "you're a conspiracy nut" comes from people who have no grasp of long-term strategy and really don't know the first thing about it. The person or group who works towards a goal in incremental steps (each of which has an excuse or plausible deniability) over longer periods of time is much more likely to get what they want than the person or group who goes for a short-term, win-or-lose, once-and-for-all type of showdown. That's particularly true when what they want to get is illegal, immoral, or goes against things like tradition, social convention, or public opinion. Recognizing this reality is the first step towards truly understanding business and politics.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:This comment surprises me by Toonol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dragging Apple down to their level in the public's eyes wouldn't be a bad strategy.

      It's not, but I think it's unnecessary. MS just needs to stand back and let Apple do it to themselves. Anybody knowledgeable about tech knows that Apple is just as evil as MS, and that knowledge is beginning to filter out into the general public. I really anticipate a collapse of the 'cool' shell that apple has built around itself in the next few years, and they'll have to actually begin competing on merit. They might do well, because they sell a decent operating system, good computers, and a not too bad mix of portable devices. They're very competitive everywhere except the price/performance ratio.

    3. Re:This comment surprises me by JackDW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple's not at the Microsoft level. Remember that hundreds of PC manufacturers are legally selling computers with Windows with and without Microsoft's blessing. There is an open and competitive market for PCs and PC components, keeping prices low and pushing innovation forward. Even though Windows is non-free and closed-source software, it has still created a vast hardware ecosystem with low barriers to entry.

      Nobody can say this about Apple, who are still working to the 1960s proprietary hardware business model, and still behaving as if the PC revolution never happened.

      --
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    4. Re:This comment surprises me by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      keep holding your breath. That shell might and only might die when steve jobs leave the company. however apple is setting themselves up for a company without steve jobs.

      The cool shell though is the fact they innovate the combined hardware/software, not just one piece of the pie, but making whole new pies. It has been shown time and time again MSFT only makes products good enough to beat the competition through brute force. Since just about everyone else gets their software from MSFT they start at a disadvantage. The ipod caught every other player off guard because it was simple to use. the iphone caught every other phone off guard because it was simple to use.

      You can literally hand any one an iphone and they can figure out how to make calls with it and surf the web without being told how. Maybe one day other companies will figure out that the interface matters more than the hardware specs. that people with big fingers can't push tiny little keyboard buttons to enter phone numbers with. That as you age you lose the dexterity of a 15 year old. I have watched business people use the blackberries, and all they do is struggle with it. I hand them my iphone and they find they can do the things they just were easily, not trying to use a scroll ball half the size of the tip of their pinky.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    5. Re:This comment surprises me by jcr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, who was behind Psystar?

      If Apple prevails on the remaining issues, we might find out. If Psystar is forced into bankruptcy, their records would be among the property transferred to the receivers.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    6. Re:This comment surprises me by DJRumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet Apple is reaping profit hand over foot, during a economic depression. Why fix what isn't broken. They obviously have something that Microsoft does not. "Cool" and "Hip" will only go so far. If there is nothing of substance to back it up, then after a few months, the hotness has worn off, and people drop them in droves. This obviously is not happening. Apple continues to increase it's market share, even in these bad economic times.

      I can guarantee you that if MS finds any manufacturer that isn't properly licensing Windows, they would be wiped from the map. The difference here being that MS licenses it's OS for resale. Apple does not. The only barrier to entry is to buy an Apple Mac, which are about the same price as any other comparable piece of hardware from a PC manufacturer (not a whole seller mind you, but a manufacturer).

      If I recall, it's the Microsoft market share and profit that is shrinking. Apple is doing just fine on it's "1960's proprietary hardware business model', whatever that means. It's just a closed system, nuts to bolts. Nothing wrong with that. Thousands upon thousands of manufacturer's produce a closed product.

    7. Re:This comment surprises me by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, legally the court said in the ruling there are cases where using a master copy in the name of efficiency is acceptable. For enterprises, the use of an image to install an OS to a large numbers of computers for the sake of efficiency is fine. For example, a large company may install a volume Windows license from MS onto a bunch of computers or they may use a disc image to do an install and then replace the generic license key with a specific one after the install is over.

      Psystar's use however was not because typically enterprises have agreements with the original copyright owner to do this when they buy enterprises licenses. Apple did not sell Psystar such a license and did not grant them the authority to do so.

      Psystar bought from Apple a single OS X copy, installed it onto a Mac Mini, loaded it onto an X86 computer ("master copy"), made modifications to it, then used the master copy to install to other computers. Psystar said since they included a retail copy of an OS X DVD, this was all legal. The court however found that Psystar did not always include a copy and that even if it did, the computer copy was not always the same version of OS X as the DVD. (I think this meant the DVD was Leopard whereas the computer had Snow Leopard installed, etc).

      Even if it was the same version, fair use does not allow for anyone to make multiple, unauthorized copies as Psystar had done. Likewise if a person made a copy (even several copies) of your software, music, etc, that might be fair use. If a person made 500 copies of each, that might not be covered.

      Lastly since Psystar modified OS X to run on X86 computers, it is guilty of creating a derivative work without Apple's permission.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    8. Re:This comment surprises me by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Look, Daddy! I reformatted your windows partition as ext3!

    9. Re:This comment surprises me by krunk7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apple seems to be doing quite well, in fact better than any other competitor in their market sector. Apple is an OEM computer and consumer electronics company.

      For example, Apple's market cap is greater than the next two competitors combined (hp + dell). Apple vs. HP vs. Dell Market Cap

      It really needs to be drilled home that Apple is a hardware OEM, not a pure software company. They should be compared to other hardware oem's that provide similar services and have have similar user support and manufacturing infrastructures. They are not even anti-competitive with Microsoft besides on the marketing hype front. They've put decent engineering effort into support Microsoft operating systems out of the box. . . unlike the "oops there goes your mbr" method of MS installs if you dared to install your alternative OS's first.

    10. Re:This comment surprises me by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only problem besides not using the same version should be failing to include discs.

      Making multiple copies of something is not illegal; only they way that Psystar had done it was. I can make multiple copies of my CDs for backup purposes. I can also transfer my music from a CD to my MP3 player for the sake of portability. These are fair uses. The law would not consider me making hundreds of copies and putting them on my friends machines likely to be legal.

      That's a bunch of crap, and if that's what the decision says then First Sale law is over, at least until it gets escalated, and it will. First Sale is critical to whole long lists of industries. Using copyright law to restrict transfer of an object [blogspot.com] is an abuse.

      The term you missed or glossed over is "modification and redistribution." In that case, the court found that promo CDs can be resold (redistributed) without the permission of the original copyright owner. The actual physical object (CD) was never modified by defendants.

      In this case, Psystar admitted to modifying OS X by replacing Apple's kernel extensions with their own and replacing the OS X boot loader.

      Basic copyright law would consider it a derivative work. As a derivative work, the defendant would have to get permission from the original copyright owner.

      At the same time, not allowing them to use imaging software is ridiculous by any reasonable standard.

      Again, the use of imaging is not illegal and the court (nor I) said it was. Psystar's use of imaging was found to violate Apple's copyright by the manner in which they did it. I suggest you read the full order so that you can see all the cases the court cited when it came to it's decision.

      First Sale law permits you to modify things you've purchased.

      I could find nowhere in the First Sale doctrine does it allows for modification as you say it does.

      If your logic is correct, then anyone in the software business can take someone else's software, change it, and redistribute. I could start selling Redneck Windows with my own take on how I see Windows. MS could create MS Linux and never worry about the GPL. Speaking of MS, OEMs have to get permission from MS before modifying and reselling Windows when they do things like replace system software (like Dell replacing Windows sound interface with their own) or change the startup screen.

      If I am not permitted to modify Apple software, then arguably I can't even use it.

      Again the point is "modification and redistribution." Apple cannot prevent you from modifying their software. They can however prevent you from re-distributing it (i.e. as a business). Apple has not sued hobbyists; and they, to my knowledge, has not sued anyone who might have sold a hackintosh on ebay or craigslist. Psystar is not a hobbyist. They are a business whose sole purpose is to "modfiy and redistribute" Apple's software. Apple did not give them permission to do so.

      And if I'm not permitted to use images to deploy OSX, then I'm certainly not even going to consider using it in the enterprise. If Psystar isn't allowed to use a custom image, then I must assume I'm not allowed to either.

      Again, the court did not rule that imaging is illegal, only the way Psystar did it and I cited two examples of perfectly acceptable ways of using an image. If you have an enterprise license (which Psystar did not) and if you use specific licenses after the install (which Psystar did not).

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    11. Re:This comment surprises me by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      About the only way for an Apple clone maker to stay in business is to make actual clones (which run an unmodified OS X) and distribute a boxed copy of OS X uninstalled with the machine. I think that's the only bullet-proof business model.

      At first, I was going to suggest creating a VM shim which would mimic an Apple machine, but I feel that this method would land the manufacturer in DVD Jon territory -- distributing an application used primarily for circumvention.

    12. Re:This comment surprises me by FlyingGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple x86 machines use Intel processors and Intel chip sets but they are custom MB's manufactured BY apple and therefor can have many things in them that are in fact proprietary, they might in fact have a modified custom microcode on the chips that they pay Intel to install. Just as the early Macintosh had about half or so of the OS burned into ROMS on the MB that that their OS would not even boot without.

      Just as an the program for an ECU for a Ford wont work in the ECU for a Chevy OSX is not designed for just ANY x86 hardware. And like ODBII allows you to talk to the software in the ECU for a FORD just the same as an ECU for a Chevy, TCP/IP allows you to talk to OSX just like it lets you talk to WIndows.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    13. Re:This comment surprises me by TheoMurpse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wikipedia says Psystar is a corporation in Florida. Florida says Psystar is this. The sole listed director in Psystar's corporate filings before Florida pursuant to state law is one Rodolfo Pedraza.

      According to The Guardian, Psystar was originally located in a row of suburban houses until sometime in April 2008 according to Psystar's own website at the time (screenshot in the linked article). To confirm this, see my Sunbiz link above, which reveals in Psystar's Articles of Incorporation that its principal place of business is this house or one by it.

      It looks like Psystar was just some guy wanting to make some money selling Hackintoshes.

      And note that if any of the AoI were forged, it's likely a felony (I don't know Florida law).

  2. So what if you own one of these machines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Are they going to shoot up in value in the history of computers market?

    1. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by digitalunity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hereby declare Psystar to be a reverse trojan horse. Apple created Psystar so they could sue themselves and once and for all crush any thoughts companies might have of trying to produce generic Apple-compatible platforms for OSX.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    2. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by secolactico · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How much is a Franklin ACE Apple II clone computer worth today?

      --
      No sig
    3. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by alecto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not that much I imagine, but Franklin sold a whole lot more Aces than Psystar sold commodity machines running Mac OS X.

    4. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by frankmu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hereby declare Psystar to be a reverse trojan horse. Apple created Psystar so they could sue themselves and once and for all crush any thoughts companies might have of trying to produce generic Apple-compatible platforms for OSX.

      this should be modded "insightful"

      --
      Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    5. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It would be insightful if it wasn't redundant. The very first post said this first...

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    6. Re:So what if you own one of these machines? by Golddess · · Score: 2, Informative

      The very first post seemed to suggest that some company setup the Psystar company to get precedent that Mac clones are legally allowed. GGP's post says that it was Apple in order to show that Mac clones are legally disallowed.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  3. Re:Too Bad by munctional · · Score: 3, Insightful

    it's unlikely they'll ever release the death grip and let the world play with OS X.

    The real question is: do they even need to in order to maintain their ridiculous profit margins?

    --
    Functional programming... for real men!
  4. Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by Rix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft is very happy with the status quo. Apple voluntarily limits itself to the tiny niche that is their own hardware. As is, they're absolutely no threat to Microsoft.

    1. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by beej · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple could be a very serious threat to Microsoft if they changed their attitude towards businesses.

      "Higher volume, lower price"? Doesn't sound like Apple to me. "Corner the $1K-plus market!" Now that's more Apple's game.

    2. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by ClosedSource · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why does MS have to be considered "cloning" Apple when Apple is never the first to implement anything? Doesn't Zune owe more to Rio than it does to Apple.? Doesn't Microsoft Store owe more to umm nearly everyone than it does to Apple? Wasn't Windows Mobile around long before the earliest iPhone rumors?

      Apple has implemented existing ideas in an elegant way, but they're still "me too" products, not original ideas.

    3. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by recoiledsnake · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh really? Why then is Microsoft trying to clone everything apple is doing?

      Zune, Microsoft Store, the new "iPhone killer" windows mobile, etc, etc

      Apple could be a very serious threat to Microsoft if they changed their attitude towards businesses.

      Microsoft's bread and butter is Windows and Office. The iPhone, iPod, App store that you mention do nothing to dent that. MS is just trying to build a bigger business by trying to get into those markets, not to counter a threat to their cash cows.

      --
      This space for rent.
    4. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by adona1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. Apple is very, very good at evolution. Rarely revolution.

      --
      Between the falling angel and the rising ape
    5. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is retarded.

      Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, web store or smart phone. The just made popular ones that have locked their users into expensive second rate hardware with expensive looking finishes.

      Apple is just a great marketing company.

    6. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by thejynxed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sure you do. Ever hear of a tiny company in Washington State named Microsoft?

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    7. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by secolactico · · Score: 2, Informative

      But if OS X were available for purchase for your home PC, or as an alternative to Windows when you buy a Dell... you can bet you'd see Windows's share drop quite a bit.

      Are you sure of that? I like OS X but I don't find it that much superior to Windows (specially the new Windows 7 which I like quite a bit).

      And I wonder if most of Apple's touted "just work" features have to do with the fact that it's a closed OS running on tightly controlled hardware (thus running it on third party hardware might defeat this feature).

      You already have an alternative when you buy your new PC: Linux (don't laugh now...) and it doesn't seem to be making that much of a dent on Windows' share of the market.

      --
      No sig
    8. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by indiechild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. Apple is very good at refining the little details that ultimately make the end user experience much better. Almost every competitor seems to miss this. Incredible attention to fine details is not something you can just copy and then hope to make a lot of money from. It's a motivation that has to come from within.

    9. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by garote · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To innovate is not to generate something entirely unique from a vacuum.
      Innovation is defined as "making changes in something established by introducing new methods, ideas, or products."

      Microsoft is accused of "cloning" because the methods, ideas, and products that they introduce do not generally constitute an improvement.

    10. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep, just like everyone else did.

      Seriously though, a $600 computer without monitor, keyboard, and mouse is really not much of a bargain. I put together my system with a Core Duo E8400 (3 GHz), 4GB Ram, DVD DL burner, 750GB hard drive, and a Nvidia 9800 GT for less than $600 - and that includes keyboard and mouse. Which is still more CPU, Memory, storage space and a better graphics card than Apple's $800 "bargain" Mini. Configuring a Mini to as close as I could get to my machine - Core Duo @ 2.66 Ghz, 4GB ram, and a 500 GB hard drive would cost me $1049 - and I still need to get a keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    11. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microsoft is very happy with the status quo

      But their shareholders are not. MSFT stock is shit over the past 5 years. Compare that with Apple. MSFT shareholders are very unhappy people.

    12. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now cram your system into 85 cubic inches, under 3 lbs., and make it use less than 100 watts.

      Why would anyone looking for a cheap computer care about any of those things?

    13. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by westyvw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They invented a specific mp3 player and managed to get together the software that sealed the deal to allow a music web store. Many had tried, and failed. Apple was the first to get labels to pay attention, and sit down and seriously negotiate.

    14. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by risinganger · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...(specially the new Windows 7 which I like quite a bit)...

      pervert :-P

      More seriously, I moved from XP to OS X 10.4, and I've recently tried Windows 7. The control panel is now a complete monster! There are a couple of nice touches but there's plenty of suck too.

    15. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by arminw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...Seriously though, a $600 computer without monitor, keyboard, and mouse is really not much of a bargain....

      Yes, but you still have only a computer with Windows and not OS X. The whole point of this Pystar thing was to permanently and legally tear OS X out of Apple's exclusive grasp, so that people like Dell and HP could legally install it on their hardware.

      I also wonder out of whose deep pockets the huge amounts of money came to pay all those lawyers.

      --
      All theory is gray
    16. Re:Psystar winning would be terrible for Microsoft by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you were to compare Excel to Lotus 123, you might consider that being able to actually draw the cells of the spreadsheet is an improvement.

      I don't suggest that MS is the king of innovation or invention, but yes, they have done both on occasion.

  5. They've almost died on PC sales several times by Rix · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Their real profit these days is the iPod/iPhone/iTunes segment. Which they would make approximately zero on if they were only available to Mac users.

    1. Re:They've almost died on PC sales several times by javacowboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Mac division is very profitable, and it is growing. I'd estimate the installed base (not market share) of Macs in North America at about 20%. Take a look at any Apple quarterly earnings report to see it for yourself.

      --
      This space left intentionally blank.
    2. Re:They've almost died on PC sales several times by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      While Apple's revenue does not entirely depend on their computer sales anymore, I wouldn't say that computer division isn't profitable. According to Apple's financial statements, they are experiencing sales growth as well as profit growth in computer sales. Overall desktop sales are down but laptop sales are up.

      As for real profit on units, Apple makes on the average more per computer than they do on each iPod and iPhone. They sell more iPods and iPhone than computers though.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  6. You're thinking too simplistically by Rix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Psystar isn't a front for anyone. That doesn't mean they haven't been used by real players.

    The truly powerful don't need to do anything so unsubtle as conspiracy nuts like to believe. They can take existing bit players, and give them the right nudge for the same effect.

    1. Re:You're thinking too simplistically by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Psystar isn't a front for anyone. That doesn't mean they haven't been used by real players.

      The truly powerful don't need to do anything so unsubtle as conspiracy nuts like to believe. They can take existing bit players, and give them the right nudge for the same effect.

      That scenario would make Paystar a "useful idiot" as some call it, which provides added deniability for the people who pull the strings. That still falls under long-term strategy and plausible deniability. My observation was deliberately worded in a simple way because understanding of this topic is sorely missing in the general public. When the audience you intend to reach is unfamiliar with a topic, you don't usually start with the most advanced material.

      Things like strategy, plausible deniability, propaganda techniques, and argumentation fallacies are either not taught in the public schools or are given only the most superficial treatment. Therefore, most people either don't know about them or have no real mastery of the concepts. When they see a politician talking about an issue, they don't immediately see patterns of influence and don't ask questions like "qui bono?" That the public schools don't cover these topics is no excuse for the widespread ignorance. People generally spend far more time educating themselves about things that have much less of an impact on their lives.

      This means that the general population is easy prey for what is effectively a ruling class that does have this knowledge and is in the profession of using it. This population understands the actual realities of politics about as well as the average Roman citizen understood the intent of "bread and circus".

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:You're thinking too simplistically by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Funny

      "cui bono?"

      His name is Chaz now. Chaz.

    3. Re:You're thinking too simplistically by Old97 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If it were taught in public schools then it would make such tactics a bit less effective. So, since most of the skilled practitioners of these dark arts are in power and since the "public schools" are administered by their minions, I'm not surprised that the schools are not spilling their secrets. If I knew some tricks that I could use to rip you off and/or control you and these tricks depended in part on you not knowing what they were, why would I teach them to you or even admit their existence?

      And no, I'm not a conspiracy nut nor do I see conspiracies behind many things. What I do see is that the ruling class has a view of how the world works and what the rules are that is very different from what the rest of us are taught to believe. They use their insights to their advantage and we boobs wonder why our virtues and hard work aren't enough. It's how the ruling classes have remained in power throughout the history of mankind.

      --
      Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
  7. Re:Too Bad by mabinogi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're right.
    The single vendor lock-in is just killing them. They were doing so well when they allowed others to build Mac clones, they should just go back to doing that. Jobs was obviously an idiot for cancelling the scheme - if he hadn't the company may have been a household name by now, instead on teetering on the brink of disaster.

    --
    Advanced users are users too!
  8. Re:Too Bad by pizzach · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Meh. Apple is pretty happy where they are. If their hardware suits you and fits your needs, buy it as necessary. Otherwise, avoid it. Many many people have a hard time doing that. If Apple finds themselves needing to change because of this down the road, they will. It's that simple.

    If you're building a hackintosh, good for you. Tinkering with things like that can be fun. But please don't start acting like Apple is supposed to support you. Don't install it on production machines. The hacking part of the hackintosh is supposed to be half the fun anyway. But that is it.

    --
    Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
  9. Re:Too Bad by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Um... Darwin

    Oh yeah, don't forget CUPS, WEBKIT, and a few other useful tools.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  10. Re:Too Bad by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OS X is a decent operating system, but few people can be satisfied by a single hardware vendor. Might as well write off Apple as a player now, as it's unlikely they'll ever release the death grip and let the world play with OS X.

    This statement seems silly on the face of it, and would benefit from some, you know, supporting evidence.

    Mac's marketshare has been steadily increasing for quite some time now. Not to mention that I know lots o' Windows folks who swear by HP/Dell/Sony (pick one) for their personal computers, and Unix/Linux admins who will only buy Sun or SGI or whatever.

    Even outside of the computer realm, people become enamored of particular brands all the time - be it automobiles, televisions, appliances... whatever. And once they lock themselves into that mindset, it is not easy for them to change their opinions.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  11. Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by javacowboy · · Score: 5, Informative

    All this goes to show is that, contrary to the statements of some Slashdotters, Psystar did not re-install OS X as-is. They replaced key segments, including the bootloader and kernel extensions, in order to get it to install on commodity hardware. That makes Psystar the distributors of a derivative work, thereby violating copyright laws. This is not about the EULA:

    "Psystar infringed Apple's exclusive right to create derivative works of Mac OS X," the ruling reads. "Specifically, it made three modifications: (1) replacing the Mac OS X bootloader with a different bootloader to enable an unauthorized copy of Mac OS X to run on Psystar's computers; (2) disabling and removing Apple kernel extension files; and (3) adding non-Apple kernel extensions."

    I fail to understand how Psystar is even within light years of being right on this issue.

    --
    This space left intentionally blank.
  12. Re:I agree, but it's not that simple by Prometheas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The claim that OS X is "absolutely irrelevant to any reasonable person" [emphasis mine] isn't a terribly reasonable statement.

  13. Re:I agree, but it's not that simple by pseudonomous · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By that logic, Windows is irrelavent (to any reasonable person) because you are tied to a single software vendor.

  14. Re:It's worked pretty well for the rest of us by Prometheas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even assuming I agreed with you regarding whether or not Apple gave licensing a "real" chance (which I haven't yet decided, but leaning towards not), I don't see any compelling reason for them to roll the dice (again) on such an experiment, considering both their present commercial performance AND reported customer satisfaction.

    But, for the sake of entertaining a thought: what specific choices on Apple's part regarding the handling of licensing Mac OS would have constituted giving it a "real" chance?

  15. Re:I agree, but it's not that simple by teg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So long as OS X is tied to a single vendor, it's absolutely irrelevant to any reasonable person

    Windows is also tied to a single vendor - Microsoft. If they screw up - like they did with e.g. Windows ME and Vista - it doesn't matter how many OEMs can deliver the hardware to run it on. Linux is multivendor - and not tied to a specific hardware company - but compared to Windows and Mac it has strengths and weaknesses. It's not the only relevant one.

  16. I need a picture drawn for me. by NoYob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been through the links and it just looks like a company wanted to sell a cheap Mac clone. I don't get what one or a firm would get in setting up a clone company just to get sued by Apple.

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
  17. Re:The only thing lamer than this verdict by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    please explain when psystar did create an altered derivative work?

    Also you have the right to do whatever you want to software installed on your computer, the only thing that could possibly be illegal is distribution.

    --
    IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  18. Re:Provocation? by causality · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If Psystar was a stalking horse then the only reason that makes sense is that someone wants Apple to lock their OS to their hardware. Apple doesn't seem too concerned by hobbyists building Frankenmacs. Their ever vigilant lawyers haven't been jackbooting down doors and dragging offenders to court. There have been instances in the past where an OS-maker has turned a blind eye to, if not actually facilitating, its OS being pirated simply to deny a competitor marketshare. Maybe somebody was worried that Apple was moving in this direction. However, if Apple is provoked into action by a startup selling Frankenmacs might they not decide to implement a TPM system to lock the OS to Macs-only? No more hobby Frankenmacs and Apple is seen as not only closed software but closed hardware too. The Technorati would be incensed and Apple would wear the black eye forever.

    I would speculate that Apple is not really threatened by Frankenmacs in general. The kind of hobbyist who is technically inclined and is willing to put something like this together is probably outside of their target audience. I have known people who bought Macs not because they were fans of Apple, but because they were dissatisfied with PCs loaded with Windows. They were not technically inclined and most of their PC problems could be put into two broad categories: configuration issues and malware. They found Macs to be a breath of fresh air not because they think Apple is "hip" and "cool" but because they found its GUI to be easy and intuitive and its underlying Unix system to be rock-solid stable and not prone to malware. They felt like they found something that "just worked" and felt like that is what they were paying a higher price for. I think of these folks as Apple's target audience.

    For those reasons, TPM would be a rather extreme measure. They are, at least for now, taking the "other option" of going after commercial Frankenmac producers legally instead of technologically. The precendent this sets is quite likely to discourage other companies from doing the same. The only ones left who are building Frankenmacs are doing so personally and not commercially and for the reasons I mentioned above, are probably not Apple's main market.

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  19. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by db32 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here...let me explain... First...get all teary...then start whining...then demand that everyone should give you what you want the way you want it because you want it to be that way. Then start stomping...screaming...crying...maybe rolling around on the floor. Basically...all you really need to do is throw a temper tantrum that would make a 2yr old proud and you will understand the entitlement mentality behind all of this. "I should get what I want, for the price I want, with the rules I want, because I want it that way." This is all driven by people who think that if they don't like the terms of an agreement that they can unilaterally alter them to meet their needs. These are the same people that dream up stupid shit ideas like "We reserve the right to alter this agreement at any time without notice" and then scream bloody murder when other like minded idiots lock them into a contract that says the same thing.

    I don't like what the RIAA is doing. I haven't bought any RIAA music in almost 10 years now. I also haven't downloaded any music. I don't try to rationalize some weird shit reason that says it is ok for me to simply take what I want because they won't offer it to me on the terms I want. The same goes for software. I VERY rarely buy software, and I pretty much restrict most of my software to F/OSS stuff. There are a few software package that I have bought, but rather than downloading, I wait for a deal where I can pay the price I want, or I find another product. It is that simple. This insane entitlement mentality is getting disgusting, and is ultimately what drives much of behavior the whiners usually throw tantrums about. Tell me that the RIAA behavior is anything other than greedy entitlement bullshit...just the same as the idiots downloading music.

    These battles are escalating battles between large groups of spoiled brats that think that they deserve whatever they demand on the terms they demand and they will go to great lengths to force their demands.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  20. Oblig Quote by AnotherAnonymousUser · · Score: 2, Funny

    This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi, it will soon see the end of Psystar.

  21. Re:The only thing lamer than this verdict by recoiledsnake · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Exactly. WTF is up with this quote from TFA:

    And to those who argue that all that matters is that open source is a better way to develop code, let this case be a warning message. Apple makes fabulous code. Of course, the BSD community did a lot of it for them, but Apple makes it all just work for end users, and they do that beautifully. So no one can argue that for end users it is not fabulous code. It is.

    Huh? How is this case a warning message to the people who argue that FOSS is a better way to develop code? I think PJ has lost it and from reading the rest of the articles on the site, seems to have become a rabid anti-MS Apple fangirl.

    And she comes across as pretty weak in the law department as well. Look at how she skirts an important question

    I know. They'll say, but, but, but ... what if they hadn't used the master and just used each copy, then would it work? Sons, why do you think Psystar used the master copy? Because it's a business, and in a business, efficiency is money. That's why businesses set themselves up, to make money. The whole world is not with you on a holy war to destroy EULAs and the GPL. Even this rinkydink business wanted to make money. Theoreticals belong on message boards, not in business and definitely not in courtrooms, and even on message boards, everyone told you for years that this wouldn't work out if someone tried it. It's been tried. It didn't work out.

    Erm what? Can't she shed some light on a very relevant and interesting theoretical instead of evading it just because it can be against her conclusion that Psystar got crushed? I don't see any insight in her article, just meaningless gloating that Apple won.

    --
    This space for rent.
  22. Because that's their business model by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why then is Microsoft trying to clone everything apple is doing?

    Because that is their business model.

    Excel to Lotus, Explorer to Netscape, C# to Java, Xbox to Playstation...the list goes on and on. It's what MS does.

    It's nothing personal against Apple. That's just what they do.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Because that's their business model by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lotus to VisiCalc, Netscape to Mosaic, Java to C++, Playstation to SNES, Apple Mac to Xerox Alto...the list goes on and on. It's what the entire industry does.

    2. Re:Because that's their business model by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Xerox Alto to oN-Line System
      Visicalc to LANPAR (Warning PDF link)

      It gets too hard to go much further than this because a lot of this early stuff isn't documented anywhere. But the term spreadsheet predates computers, so even the earliest spreadsheet evolved from ideas in the real world.

  23. Re:Too Bad by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OS X is a decent operating system, but few people can be satisfied by a single hardware vendor. Might as well write off Apple as a player now, as it's unlikely they'll ever release the death grip and let the world play with OS X.

    Who are these few people that you speak of? If you mean slashdotters, that might be true. The average person buying a computer doesn't care. They mostly care if the computer they are buying will work for them. They should care more about these things but they don't.

    Yes, we've heard the death knell of Apple before. That may have been closer to being true ten years ago when Apple was in deep trouble. Today they are sitting on $34 billion in cash. That doesn't account for total assets, that's just cash.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  24. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I imagine if you tried to sell the modified GM vehicle, GM would come after you with their lawyers.

    Carroll Shelby, Mopar, and Magnuson Moss think you're full of crap.

    Remember the Slashdot rules: even if any other physical or software manufacturer would be publicly flayed for committing an act, it's Right and Good and Justified if Apple does it.

    I'm typing this on a Mac, probably the last Apple product I'll ever buy because of the crap they pull.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  25. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by Mr2001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I imagine if you tried to sell the modified GM vehicle, GM would come after you with their lawyers.

    If they did, GM would lose. There's no question that you have the right to buy a car, modify it, and resell it, just like you can with any other piece of physical property.

    That's why this ruling against Psystar is so baffling: with a car, the legal issues are straightforward. With software, although you are allowed to make modifications like the ones Psystar made, and even to have a third party make them for you, if you're going to run a business like Psystar's, you have to be very careful about exactly how your process works -- even though the end result is exactly the same.

    It shouldn't matter whether you copy a pre-patched copy of OS X onto the new machine, or whether you copy an identical copy first and then patch it. It shouldn't matter whether you sell the original copy of OS X to the customer and then patch it for him, or whether you sell him a copy that's already been patched and also give him the original. But apparently it does matter, and that's stupid.

    --
    Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  26. Keeping score on Groklaw bias by ClosedSource · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's see:

    Anti-SCO - check
    Anti-MS - check
    New entry Pro-Apple - check

  27. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by furball · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's even worse in the courts. Apple fanboys everywhere sitting on all those judicial benches.

    I shake my angry fist at you Apple fanboys judges!

  28. Much less so by Rix · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you buy a copy of Windows, you can transfer it to a machine from any other vendor.

    Further, you don't need to tie yourself to Windows at all anymore. If you develop for .NET, you can transfer to any system that supports that at any time.

  29. Re:You'd have to be crazy to hold Apple stock by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    entire company rests on the health of one man

    What's your next guess?

    Apple got along quite well during SJ's leave of absence. One thing he's not given enough credit for is recruiting. Apple's got world-class senior executives, and at least a dozen people who could run the show if Steve got hit by the proverbial bus. They wouldn't have Steve's panache, but they're just as dedicated to the quality of the products.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  30. Re:Which is why their computer's confuse me by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Then, license OS-X to whoever wants it (for an increased cost of course). Make it just another OS that people can buy if they want.

    Why in the world would Apple want to do that? They would (like Microsoft) have to support every POS computer ever cobbled together. For a couple of bucks. Apple can barely do upgrades on the two dozen or so models they actively support - every time Apple brings out a point release or even a security fix, it manages to hose various systems.

    If they had to support everything, it would look like.... Linux. Command line patches everywhere. Pleasant hours troubleshooting Bog-knows-what. Nope. They're smart doing exactly what they've set up.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  31. Re:Which is why their computer's confuse me by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So why was the iPod the one that took off? Because it was cool.

    Undoubtably the iPod was and still is the coolest MP3 player. But you miss the point of WHY it became the coolest. Because it was the best. Because it had a great design, Because it had a great UI, because with iTunes it was the easiest to use. Normal people (i.e. not geeks) didn't want to piss about dragging MP3 files around to external disk drives, manually managing directory structures. They just want to rip their CDs in the easiest way possible and have the music appear on their iPods automatically. Let the computer take care of the administration grunt work.

    It seems like Apple's insistence on doing computers they way they do is not based on a good business practice but just stubborn insistence.

    Clearly you are entirely unaware of Apple's financial results, which even in the recession continue to outgrow pretty much everyone else. They don't need any business advice from you. They know far better than you do what is good for business.

  32. First sale doesn't allow you resell derivatives by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's a bunch of crap, and if that's what the decision says then First Sale law is over, at least until it gets escalated, and it will. First Sale is critical to whole long lists of industries. Using copyright law to restrict transfer of an object [blogspot.com] is an abuse... First Sale law permits you to modify things you've purchased.

    If Psystar modified the OS X software and then sold the modified software (along with the computer), then they've both created a derivative work and distributed it. This should be clear cut in the courts. There is a circuit split over whether attaching a postcard to a tile and then reselling it constitutes the preparation and distribution of a derivative work, but the split is over the question of whether simply gluing the card to the tile is enough to qualify as a derivative work. In this case, modifying the software is almost unquestionably enough to constitute the preparation of a derivative work.

    First sale will allow you to resell a copyrighted work that you have purchased; if, however, it's been modified enough to constitute a derivative work, you'll run afoul of copyright law. If, in the Seventh Circuit's tile case, the defendant had made a new piece of artwork, e.g. a collage or something with a bunch of postcard, that would likely pass the threshold for a derivative work.

    If all Psystar had done was resell copies of unmodified copies of OS X along with their Hackintoshes, the issue of derivative works wouldn't come into play at all. It would be more a matter of whether Apple's EULA matters, etc. By modifying the copies, however, they opened up a big can of worms.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  33. Use != Sale by enkidu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The simple truth is that Psystar DID have to use an image method to perform the installs, and so this should be considered a minimum necessary step towards exercising First Sale rights to do as you like with something you've purchased; but I do agree that they should have been required to use an image based on the same version of OSX that would appear in the box. First Sale law permits you to modify things you've purchased. If I am not permitted to modify Apple software, then arguably I can't even use it. And if I'm not permitted to use images to deploy OSX, then I'm certainly not even going to consider using it in the enterprise. If Psystar isn't allowed to use a custom image, then I must assume I'm not allowed to either.

    Good points and I totally agree with your points on the validity of the First Sale law and it's necessity. However, you're missing a crucial point. Pystar not only modified OSX, (as is allowed for personal use), but it sold this modified derivative product, which is not protected by the First Sale law. You can use a modified product, but you can't sell. That's why Pystar lost, and lost big. I personally think that these and other copyright restrictions are too strict, but it is pretty clear in this case (summary judgement and all that) that Pystar broke it.

    --

    There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
    -Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
    1. Re:Use != Sale by gyrogeerloose · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess that means reselling all those college textbooks back to the bookstore at the end of a term is not protected by First Sale Doctrine either, if you make even the smallest mark on any page.

      No, but selling copies of those textbooks is. That's the issue here.

      --
      This ain't rocket surgery.
    2. Re:Use != Sale by enkidu · · Score: 2, Informative

      You missed the next section 117(b) which prohibits the transfer of such modifications without the permission of the copyright owner as noted in this post.

      --

      There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
      -Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
    3. Re:Use != Sale by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But, by that very logic, modifying a textbook by adding or removing words or even simply underlining/highlighting words for emphasis would count as well. Ie, no copies have to be made for a derivative work to be created. So Psystar would be just as guilty even if they thought of a clever way to restamp each OS X disc to include their modifications.

      Underlining/highlighting a book does not change the contents of the book. However if you did change the words, then that is modifying. So if you decided that you didn't like how Cujo by Steven King ended, you could rewrite your own ending and sell it as the "improved" Cujo. I think Steven King would sue the pants off you.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Use != Sale by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No you're missing the whole point. The owner may make adaptations. However to resell the adaptations, the end user must acquire permissions from the original copyright holder, not the owner.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  34. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by burris · · Score: 4, Informative

    The court rejected 117. Partially because Psystar's lawyers suck. (emphasis mine)

    The question is whether Psystar can rely on section 117 to escape liability. It cannot. As Apple pointed out, Psystar waived any Section 117 essential step defense when it failed to plead it. Psystar counters that it has not waived Section 117 because that provision is a
    limitation on a copyright owner’s exclusive rights rather than an affirmative defense. An earlier Ninth Circuit decision stated “Section 117 defines a narrow category of copying that is lawful per se” and “Section 107, by contrast, establishes a defense to an otherwise valid claim of copyright infringement.” Sega Enters. v. Accolade, Inc., 977 F.2d 1510, 1521 (9th Cir. 1992). Since then, the Ninth Circuit has expressly referred to Section 117 as a defense. See Wall Data Inc. v. L.A. County Sheriff’s Dep’t, 447 F.3d 769, 776 (9th Cir. 2006) (referring to Section 117 as an affirmative defense); Asset Mktg. Sys. v. Gagnon, 542 F.3d 748, 754 (9th Cir. 2008) (referring to Section 117 as a defense). As such, this order treats Section 117 as an affirmative defense.

    Alternatively, if Section 117 is considered an affirmative defense, then Psystar argues it has pled it in its answer and raised the substance of its Section 117 argument in its interrogatory responses. Neither the answer nor interrogatory responses, however, refer to Section 117. And Psystar has not demonstrated any good cause for its failure to assert the defense after a year of litigation. Also, there has been no showing that its failure to do so will not prejudice Apple. As such, Psystar has waived the defense.

    At all events, the assertion of Section 117 is so frivolous in the true context of how Psystar has used Mac OS X that a belated attempt to amend the pleadings would not be excused.

  35. That's not true at all. by tjstork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It has been shown time and time again MSFT only makes products good enough to beat the competition through brute force

    I wish advocates of alternative anything would just be honest. Microsoft has made products that are better than their competition and sometimes they are breathtakingly so. Bill Gates may have been a ruthless businessman, but when he was at the helm, Microsoft made some good stuff.

    MS BASIC was way better than other BASICs made by other computer companies. String arrays? Geez, on Atari Basic you had to fake them.

    DOS was better than CP/M. It was quicker to learn, and, had a pretty spiffy version of BASICA with it, for its day.

    FoxPro (bought by MS), was way better than the dBase (bought by Borland). And, Access was a better desktop database than anything else out there.

    Windows of the DOS extender series was better than any other DOS task extender series. For that matter, Windows 95 is hands down superior to Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9 and Windows NT blew OS/2 completely out of the water. OS/2, single message queue on the desktop, puhlease.

    Excel was better than Quattro, and I'm sorry, Word was better than Word Perfect for Windows, by far. My favorite Word Process was Samna AmiPro, which, probably would have ruled them all had Lotus not bought them and screwed it up.

    Yeah, everyone can cry fowl over Netscape being destroyed by Microsoft, but Microsoft IE 4 had a fully programmable DOM and an AJAX XMLHttpRequest.. what did Netscape have... you could script a form, had document.write for everything else...a half-assed buggy email, and a billion bugs.

    Visual Studio was way better than Borland's C++ IDE was by around 2.0 of Visual Studio.

    It's pretty simple. Microsoft is good, at times, especially when Gates was running the show. And there were many times Microsoft, despite all of these "advantages", competed, and flopped... does anyone remember PhotoDraw? That little gem was actually pretty innovative, but, Adobe crushed it like an insect. Now we have Silverlight going up against Flash, and lo, Silverlight is still not reliable in Firefox and didn't have drop shadows. WTF. They lose, and deservedly so.

    And, Microsoft lets the XP franchise languish, releases Vista way too early, and so loses market share to Linux. Microsoft prices things off, and so, WinNT Server loses to Linux. Microsoft, after a brilliant run from IE4-6 (yeah, one time, 6 was the best... almost 10 years ago?), but now, can't catch a clue with IE8 and so FireFox and now Google Chrome and Safari are now gradually crushing them.

    And now Visual Studio seems ever more confused, while Eclipse and other IDE's start to look better, and I switched.

    Conspiracies, monopolies, all of that, can be an advantage, but really, only for so long. In this society, it is product that matters,

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:That's not true at all. by FlyingGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ok I have mod points, and since there is no mod "You are full of it" I will have to reply, although I am sure that i will be hit for it...

      FoxPro (bought by MS), was way better than the dBase (bought by Borland). And, Access was a better desktop database than anything else out there.

      FoxPro was a dBase clone and the only thing it did better was a compiler, and a pretty slow one at that. Early versions of Access were a piece of crap. If DataEase had not bet the farm on OS/2 then they would have smoked Access so badly that MS would have been forced to buy the company, wait for it.... Oh yes they did try and buy the company once, but Arun Gupta ( rip ) did not sell because their product was better then dBase, FoxPro and Pradox combined.

      Excel was better than Quattro, and I'm sorry, Word was better than Word Perfect for Windows, by far. My favorite Word Process was Samna AmiPro, which, probably would have ruled them all had Lotus not bought them and screwed it up.

      Oh please. Quattro Pro was eating everyones lunch! It was faster the either Lotus or Excel, had a native GUI mode before their was a GUI to be had ( Lotus had a very bad add-in to get it into graphics mode and Excel had none ), had far more standard financial and statistical functions and had spreadsheet tabs first as well not to mention the easiest to create 3D graphs out there. Borland spent just about all the money they had at the time defending themselves against Lotus in the "look and feel" lawsuit wars ( if Jim Manzi walked up to me today I would put the little bitch on the ground ) that they ultimately won, but were left drastically weakened from not to mention that their development efforts for Quattro were frozen for about two years. As to your assertion for Word -v- Word Perfect that was the very beginning of the "Teddy Bear" wars, small wonder that Word came out on top.

      Microsoft got to where it is today mostly by illegal business practices and FUD, if it had truly been a level playing field it would be a very very different software landscape out there. If Microsoft could not get a company that was building better and in many many cases FAR better software to allow themselves to be purchased then they would simply check in to a near by Hotel suite and start offering money that could not be ignored to the target companies best and brightest and destroying the company that way. This is not urban legend this is established fact and oh by the way if you doubt it, just ask Borland since The Traitor Anders now works their as well.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
  36. Re:Darwin is not OS X by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Informative

    Grand Central Dispatch is interesting, written fro scratch by Apple, and open sourced. You lose.

  37. Re:Which is why their computer's confuse me by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, you may try and convince yourself that it was some amazing new technology that sold the iPod but it wasn't, it was style.

    I don't need to "convince myself". I know better than you do because I bought one, and I know why I bought one. You didn't make that choice, and you're imagining reasons for whay other people (that you despise) did so. Which is rather ignorant of you.

    The Mac fanboy base like yourself isn't what has given them massive profits, there just aren't that many zealots out there.

    The irony here is that you are the one who is arguing like an emotional sorority girl.

  38. Pystar should just switch to Amiga OS by Narcocide · · Score: 2, Funny

    (or Linux)

  39. This is why I don't send money to Cupertino by leereyno · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (I'm not familiar with the details of the Psystar case and so I don't know if this company did anything wrong or not. Neither do I really care. This post is not a defense of Psystar.)

    I cut my teeth on an Apple II+ way back when 64k was a lot of memory.

    So why don't I like Apple today?

    Because they seek to monopolize the markets created by their products.

    Many years ago I bought a Quadra 700 on the cheap because its hard drive was dead. I had a good SCSI drive that I planned to use with it. Then I found out that unless my drive came from Apple, the MacOS partitioning and filesystem tools would pretend it didn't exist. Looking for help, I received many lies from Mac fanboys about how SCSI was just an electrical standard and that the Mac SCSI devices used a different command set. That was a flat out lie that is easily falsified. That they would insult me with such an obvious canard was astonishing. If someone likes a particular product then that is fine. But when they LIE in order to promote it or to obscure its flaws, then that is just plain disgusting.

    Apple specifically created their filesystem tools to kill the 3rd party market for hard drives and other peripherals such as CDROM drives.

    This wasn't a singular example either, but part and parcel of that company's nature. I won't purchase products from a company that tries to prevent me from purchasing complimentary products from anyone else.

    Apple is continuing with this tradition today by tying their operating system to Apple branded PCs. There are people at work who use Macs and it would be nice to be able to support the platform. But doing so requires that I go out and purchase a new computer, at a significant price hike, just so I can run their operating system. If the hardware was different, such as it was back in the PowerPC or 68k days, then that would be understandable. But the hardware is not different. These are standard PCs with special hardware included that their OS searches for before it will allow itself to be installed. Same story as the hard drives with tags in the firmware.

    So I just don't buy anything from Apple. I don't buy their computers. I don't buy their MP3 players. I don't buy their phones. I avoid them. I tell anyone who asks me to do the same, and I explain why.

    If they ever change their tune and stop playing keep away, then maybe I'll reconsider. Till then they can blow me.

    --
    Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
    1. Re:This is why I don't send money to Cupertino by pizzach · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apple specifically created their filesystem tools to kill the 3rd party market for hard drives and other peripherals such as CDROM drives.

      If you buy the correct brand, the part would work. For example, Pioneer DVR 115/106/107 were the correct brand in the G3 era for DVD drives. Notice how they are not "Apple" brand. Outside of stuff apple never expect most people to change, I have never had any tricky hardware problems. The worst issue I ever went through was when my B&W G3 needed firmware flashing to allow G4 processors because they were explicitly blocked. Apple seems to be particularly strict about the CPUs. Other stuff...seemed to work fine as long as you had the correct drivers.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
  40. No, it doesn't. by langelgjm · · Score: 4, Informative
    Read carefully the full section, and you'll see that while it allows for the creation for "adaptations", it explicitly disallows resale of those adaptations if you don't have permission from the copyright holder:

    (b) Lease, Sale, or Other Transfer of Additional Copy or Adaptation.— Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:No, it doesn't. by butlerm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner."

      Good point. In that case, Psystar needs to do something like the following: Sell a machine and a legitimate copy of Mac OS X to the end user. Have the end user authorize the installation of *that* copy on the machine, with any appropriate adaptations to make it work.

      117(a) allows the owner to "authorize" the making of such adaptations necessary to the software on a machine, and 117(b) does not prohibit it.

  41. Re:Section 117(a) does allow you resell derivative by IntlHarvester · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The court's logic seems to be that first sale doctrine does not cover copying to an "imaging server", therefore everything Psystar did afterwards was also illegal.

    Which might imply Mac cloning could be legal if it was done 'by hand'. However, the court also found that bypassing Apple's lock-out mechanism violated the DMCA, which seems rather dubious to me.

    (Also I have to complain. 90% of the discussion here is computards arguing Apple sucks/Apple rules/I like my iPod, and ignoring the issues at hand. Slashdot is really full of knuckledraggers nowdays.)

    --
    Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
  42. Re:Darwin is not OS X by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Webkit is based off of KHTML, but if you have ever actually used both of them it will become immediately obvious it is not just a set of bugfixes. We are talking about a boatload of additional functionality.

    For the record, I am not an Apple fanboi. I'm a card-carrying linux using, mac hater.

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
  43. Re:Too Bad by Kjella · · Score: 2, Informative

    This statement seems silly on the face of it, and would benefit from some, you know, supporting evidence.

    My experience every time:
    I pick an Apple model I could use, and compare to a similar PC - no big difference.
    I pick the PC I want, try to find something Apple has matching that - Apple loses bigtime.

    The only explanation I have for Apple's success is that people don't feel the difference... computers like all have a gigahertz multicore processors, gigs of memory, terabytes of disk hundreds of GPU shaders, all sorts of ports and wireless and whatever. That only form factor and software really matters, the limited and expensive selection of everything else does not. I'm guessing that's true for many people, honestly I've been a power user almost all my life but lately even the most bloated abominations of software malpractice run decently. More speed is starting to be "nice to have", nothing more.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  44. Re:Except um.... by JackDW · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I disagree. I think the PC revolution started when Compaq made the first clones of the IBM PC. Before then, there were home computers, but all of them had proprietary designs and clones were effectively illegal. After Compaq, the door was open to a huge number of manufacturers, all making "100% IBM Compatible" computers that would run the same software. This - the competition and evolution that it created - propelled the PC to worldwide success. The revolution could not have happened without an open platform. The PC crushed proprietary competitors like the Amiga and Archimedes even though those machines were technically superior at the time because the economics of the open market were overwhelming.

    Apple is the only survivor from this time, but it, too, was very nearly destroyed by the juggernaut.

    --
    You're an immobile computer, remember?
  45. I'm confused by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In any other case the slashdot crowd would be raging and the megacorp who crushed the small upstart's website would be hacked, but wouldn't be visible because of the simultanious DDoS attack. Only because the megacorp is Apple and the rules with them are somehow different.

    Seriously. Find me another case where Slashdot cheers a EULA being upheld. Find me another case where a DMCA attack is applauded. Listen up ya numbbuts, EULAs are always evil. The DMCA is always evil. Even when Steve Jobs is crushing a small competitor. What Pystar was doing may be illegal (I'd argue that point though) but I double dog dare any fanboy to stand up here and defend the MORAL position Apple took.

    Either what Apple sells in those boxes are full copies of OS X or they are upgrades. Apple insists they are full copies when it suits their arguments AND equally insists they are mere upgrades when they need to crush Pystar. Make up yer fracking minds.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  46. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by eggnoglatte · · Score: 5, Informative

    Jesus Fucking H Christ. You are like the 10th moron in this thread who quotes part (a) of that section, but is completely utterly incapable of reading on to part (b). If you actually read part (b), it expressly prohibits resale of the modified versions.

    Are you all aiming for the Selective Reading of the Year Award or what?

  47. Re:Not first-sale doctrine: Psystar altered OS X by Torodung · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think the problem comes in when you image dump it to a bunch of commodity hard disks and sell hundreds of machines from the one copy you bought on the single cheapo Apple computer you bought.

    First-sale allows you to sell that one copy, or possibly put it in one new machine, not open up a distribution center.

    Psystar's boneheaded defense was that first-sale lets you, vis-a-vis, buy a $16 factory-recorded CD and a spool of a hundred 50-cent CD-Rs, and sell the "new product" at half price, turning a $7.50 profit on each disc. They were wrong. Copyright law doesn't look kindly upon that.

    And that is why Psystar got pounded. If they bought a hundred cheap iMacs, modded the software, and put it in exactly a hundred high-end workstations, first-sale might have a ghost of a chance of applying.

    But then, you'd have to be an individual reselling, and not be a reseller business, incorporated to turn a profit on a derivative work, which you don't have the rights to and is also a violation of copyright. This is what you think is "stupid." That I should be able to, say, delete one of the mediocre filler tracks off of that $16 dollar CD and sell it for $8. It doesn't matter if I convert them to MP3's first, etc., I'm selling them, as a business, which makes me a distributor.

    It's copyright. You can't copy it for resale. You can't make a derivative work for resale if you don't have the consent of the rights holder. You can't redistribute it for substantial gain. Copyright law has been that way since long before the DMCA. The operative words are "resale" and "substantial gain." This is why it's a summary judgment, because Psystar didn't have a case. They were like the New York Yankees showing up to play water polo here.

    What Apple did is in accordance with the law, and it's their duty to their shareholders to defend their rights. I won't go so far as to claim that they were "right," or "good," but if folks don't like this, then they need work to change the law, because that's what the law says.

    In my experience, the law is almost always "stupid," or at the very least it's blunt. It doesn't exist as a "common sense way to live" and while the courts are a system, the law is not. The law is there to arbitrate conflicts when all other options have broken down, with little to no room for compromise so there is a clear "winner." If you want compromise, or sense, you settle outside of court as soon as possible. We should not look to the courts for guidance, we should look to the courts for a clear redress of our grievances when all else fails.

    --
    Toro

  48. Re:Provocation? by tgibbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would speculate that Apple is not really threatened by Frankenmacs in general. The kind of hobbyist who is technically inclined and is willing to put something like this together is probably outside of their target audience. I have known people who bought Macs not because they were fans of Apple, but because they were dissatisfied with PCs loaded with Windows.

    No, I don't think Apple much cares, or at least they realize that suing users is a losing proposition. Apple's protection strategy is little more than the equivalent of a chain on the door. It doesn't so much keep people out as place them in the position of having to break something to get in, thereby serving notice that people who run Mac OS X on foreign hardware are in violation of their user agreements. Of course, the chain is cut almost immediately, as Apple surely knows it will be. They just put it back with each new release, reminding everybody, "this upgrade is for our computers only, and if you want to violate our rights, you'll have to take the trouble to patch it.
    '

  49. Re:Oh, Apple Fanboys.... by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was born in 1964. How about you?

    I'm well aware of how Apple's near-death experience happened, and I'm telling you from direct personal experience that Apple's management got a major overhaul when SJ returned.

    As for Microsoft's $150M, that was their downpayment on keeping their top execs out of jail for stealing Quicktime code for Windows Media. They were caught red-handed, and Steve made them a deal. They could walk, and Apple wouldn't press charges for criminal copyright infringement, in return for a promise to keep shipping MS Office on the Mac for five years.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  50. Re:Provocation? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously, these specific users you talk about don't find Mac's GUI immediately "easy and intuitive" nor the underlying "Unix system" "rock-solid stable" nor do they even know. These are things Mac fanboys like to say, however.

    Maybe I'm not part of Apple's target market - since I use a MacBook I inherited from my wife when she upgraded - but I like Apple for many of the same reasons I like Linux (or BSD for that matter). The convenience of being able to bust out a zsh shell counts for a lot when performing operations that are actually quicker and simpler when performed from the command-line than with a GUI. I was actually somewhat (pleasantly) surprised to find that OS X in fact comes with zsh "out of the box". I had figured this would be considered an unnecessary detail on a Mac, but obviously not.

    Apart from that, life with Apple is a trade-off between having everything "just work" and having an inflexible GUI of Apple's choice rather than my own.