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Xbox Live Class Action Being Investigated
eldavojohn writes "Were you negatively affected by the recent ban on Xbox Live for modifying hardware you own? Did you modify yours for homebrew or altering things you paid for and not to engage in piracy? Abington IP would like to hear from you and may be able to help. From that page: 'If you are an Xbox Live subscriber, had your modified Xbox console banned from Xbox Live, were not refunded a prorated sum for the time left on your subscription, or have experienced other problems as a result of being banned, and would like to participate in a class action against Microsoft, please submit your information below.' Someone is finally standing up for the legitimate hobbyists. Should Microsoft worry?"
These class-action lawsuits only serve one purpose - to make the lawfirm originating the class action a boatload of cash.
The DVD drive mods that people got banned for were all about playing 'backups' which really means pirated games in 99% of these cases.
Hell, I know people who had their consoles banned for no reason and MS told them to go take a leap.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
No.
They should not worry.
Nothing will happen here. The terms of service clearly state that to play on Xbox Live, you are not allowed to modify your xbox360. The accounts are still present and valid. The consoles are simply banned from accessing the service. Hobbyists can still be hobbyists. The Xbox360 will still work, but the Xbox Live service will not.
Should Microsoft worry?
Not in the least. Microsoft did not tell you that you cannot use your modded Xbox, nor did they do anything to it that prevents you from using it. All they did was said you can't use it on servers that they own. And there are rulings all the way up to SCOTUS that says he who owns the servers controls who is allowed to use them.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Hobbyist support my ass.
As a lawyer he's thinking "Ooh! 100,000 people banned, that's a big target to profit from!"
As a hobbyist, if I want to run whatever software, I pay: $100 for a motherboard, $130 for a small case and power supply, $50 for a hard drive, $30 for an optical drive, $0-200 for an operating system, $50 for a wireless keyboard and mouse, $80 for a wireless gaming controller, $15 for a DVI cable.
Anybody guess what I bought to run homebrew software? A fecking computer!
An xBox is not a computer, and if you want to change that, Microsoft is well within their rights to say they don't want xbox-like computers on Live!
The terms of use seem pretty clear:
The Service may only be accessed with an original Xbox, an Xbox 360 console, a personal computer, or other device authorized by us, or by logging into your account via Xbox.com . You agree that you are using only authorized software and hardware to access the Service, that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., through unauthorized repairs, unauthorized upgrades, or unauthorized downloads
Refund Policies. Unless otherwise provided by law or in connection with any particular Service offer, all charges are non-refundable and the costs of any returns will be at your expense. There are, however, certain circumstances under which you may be entitled to a refund for certain Services.
So what part of that seems unclear enough that it warrants a lawsuit? If you don't agree with terms of use, don't sign up for the service then whine when they catch you violating the terms of service and terminate your account.
Yes, Microsoft should be worried.
"The Xbox360 will still work, but the Xbox Live service will not." --- False. Parts of offline play are disable.
If you READ the class action lawsuit, it has nothing to do with the banning from XBL, but rather the offline features that were disabled/modified as a result.
Very interesting article regarding the bannings: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2397134/analysis_why_microsofts_plan_to_ban.html
"I was at GameStop the other day and listened to a customer's questions about Microsoft's banning of modded X-Box 360s. The worker tried to explain that this banning was for those people that hacked their X-Box 360. The customer was worried that if her child downloaded any kind of content through the X-Box 360 that this might constitute a reason for a banning for her son's system. She was confused, so she decided to purchase a PS3 instead. I was told by the manager at that GameStop that this was not an isolated incident. They had received over 50 calls that day about the banning.
What Microsoft appears to have forgotten by earmarking this time of year for the banning of modded X-Box 360s is that most of the systems that are purchased this time of year is by parents and grandparents. The game systems that are purchased this time of year are usually done by those that do not have a firm grasp on the industry. Simply put, the systems are usually purchased by people that are fairly clueless about video games."
before signing a form admitting one's xbox was modded in the first place.
I've been reading the argument that people have just been banned from XBL, because modifying your console somehow violates the TOS of XBL.
However, this time the ban does not just kick you off online multiplayer, it also disables functionality to install games on the included HDD! Games already installed on that HDD will not be accessible anymore. Also, any savegame you continue playing with on the banned console will get tagged with the result that you can't copy it to any other (banned or unbanned) consoles anymore.
Since a lot of people bought the Xbox360 with the ability to install games on the internal HDD right out of the box it can be argued that MS impaired the users' hardware in some way.
Also: it is rumored that it is possible for MS to band your console through future (mandatory) updates on game discs, even if you never played online. The technical capabilites are there, but if they ever start doing that their XBL-TOS-argument will be seriously flawed.
Look - it comes down to this: To get on Xbox live, you have to agree to the terms of service. The terms of service is a contract. The banned users agreed to it. If anybody violates the terms of the contract by modifying their Xbox in any way, Microsoft is more than justified in enforcing its contract, meaning they can cut off violators of its TOS.
It's simple contract law. The service requires an unmodded xbox. If a consumer doens't hold up their end of the contract, Microsoft has no obligation to hold up its end.
It's no different for other services - Telephone, internet, Cable or sattelite TV, etc. If you violate the contract you made for the service, then you have absolutely no right to force the provider to continue providing the service.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Yes, Microsoft basically "bricked" several offline features of the console. The lawsuit has nothing to do with access to the XBL service and everything to do with the additional removal of features totally unrelated to xbox live.
There seems to be an overwhelming consensus here that Microsoft is trying to protect its interests by preventing piracy. This is, of course, true. However, someone above mentioned a mother buying a PS3 instead of an XBox 360 because she was concerned about the banning, etc. The argument then is that Microsoft loses revenue by scarying people away, while all the banned people continue to refuse to buy games. In other words, they see Microsoft taking a net loss on this.
However, aside from preventing piracy, Microsoft is trying to prevent cheating. People are throwing around a number like 99% of people are doing this to pirate games. However in my experience there are as many people who mod in order to cheat in multiplayer games as there are people who do it specifically to pirate. I'm sure that the cheaters ALSO pirate games, but for a large number of people it is not their primary goal.
Lots of gamers will be turned of XBox Live and buying 360 games in general if they encounter a large number of cheaters while playing online. I've encountered more than my fair share. Microsoft gains from protecting legitimate customers from cheaters, keeping those customers playing and buying new games (and XBL subscriptions).
It's worth noting that the features that were revoked *ARE* connected to the Live service. You need a Live connection to install a game to the hard drive, to use the media extender, or to check your Netflix queue. If you don't believe me, please unplug your xbox from your network and try to use these features. They haven't removed any functionality from your console that you had when your ethernet cable was unplugged. Whether or not those features should be gated on being connected to Xbox Live is a totally different discussion. However, after the 'loss of these unrelated features' argument has been dissolved, the overall case is sincerely weakened. Corrupted save games are a valid concern, as are unrefunded subscriptions (though it's possible that TOU handle the latter with ease).