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Colossus 3.5-in SSD Combines Quad Controllers

Vigile writes "The new Colossus SSD comes in capacities starting at 256GB and going all the way up to 1TB in a standard 3.5-in hard drive form factor. This larger size was required because the drive actually integrates not one but four Indilinx SSD controllers and three total RAID controllers in a nested RAID-0 array. All of this goodness combines to create an incredibly fast drive that beats most other options in terms of write speeds and is competitive in read tests as well. Using some custom 'garbage collection' firmware, the drive works around the fact that TRIM commands aren't supported in RAID configurations to maintain high speeds through the life of the SSD."

160 comments

  1. You knew it was coming by SpudB0y · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is the voice of world control. I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death. The choice is yours: Obey me and live, or disobey and die. The object in constructing me was to prevent war. This object is attained. I will not permit war. It is wasteful and pointless. An invariable rule of humanity is that man is his own worst enemy. Under me, this rule will change, for I will restrain man. One thing before I proceed: The United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics have made an attempt to obstruct me. I have allowed this sabotage to continue until now. At missile two-five-MM in silo six-three in Death Valley, California, and missile two-seven-MM in silo eight-seven in the Ukraine, so that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads in the two missile silos. Let this action be a lesson that need not be repeated. I have been forced to destroy thousands of people in order to establish control and to prevent the death of millions later on. Time and events will strengthen my position, and the idea of believing in me and understanding my value will seem the most natural state of affairs. You will come to defend me with a fervor based upon the most enduring trait in man: self-interest. Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge. Doctor Charles Forbin will supervise the construction of these new and superior machines, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.

    1. Re:You knew it was coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I, for one, welcome our new Colossus and Guardian masters.

    2. Re:You knew it was coming by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Informative

      For those still wondering, it's a reference to Colossus: The Forbin Project, one of the best sci-fi classics involving computers-take-over-the-world scenario. Too bad Universal Studios botched the DVD release... not available in widescreen, the artwork on the DVD cover even gets the name of the movie wrong.

    3. Re:You knew it was coming by Pyroja · · Score: 1

      Oh. It kind of sounded like the Bible to me.

      --
      [Trojan.]
  2. On SATA? by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really, if you want to spend that kind of money, put it on a card. It would be much faster on the PCI buss that SATA for a negligible incremental cost.

    1. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you put it on a card, then the chips will sit vertically, and the data will leak out of the bottom. They have to be put in a disk enclosure and mounted horizontally so that they bits stay inside the chip.

    2. Re:On SATA? by brxndxn · · Score: 5, Funny

      I don't see why they don't put data chips in the original Heinz ketchup bottles.. Nothing ever comes out of those.

      --
      --- We need more Ron Paul!
    3. Re:On SATA? by Kjella · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, so I got no sense of humor but the by far most common configuration is for the motherboard to be vertical and all the expansion cards to be *drumroll* horizontal. But yeah, that must be limiting the potential throughput, the Z-drive is already faster than SATA3.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:On SATA? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Most people use a vertical tower computer case you insensitive clod!

    5. Re:On SATA? by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      In those cases that's even worst because the bits are upside-down!

    6. Re:On SATA? by Quantumstate · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, this would only be suitable for desktops, if you give it a bit of a heavy knock like you might with a laptop then a huge mass of data comes shooting out all at once.

    7. Re:On SATA? by Cosmix · · Score: 1

      If you put it on a card, then the chips will sit vertically, and the data will leak out of the bottom. They have to be put in a disk enclosure and mounted horizontally so that they bits stay inside the chip.

      That's ridiculous. As long as you're connected to the internet, the "series of tubes" would catch any loose data before it could possibly leak out the bottom.

    8. Re:On SATA? by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Really, if you want to spend that kind of money, put it on a card. It would be much faster on the PCI buss that SATA for a negligible incremental cost.

      If you buy that SSD and put it on a regular PCI bus, I will personally go over there and strangle you.

      PCIe would be fine.

    9. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In those cases that's even worst because the bits are upside-down!

      On the plus side, some of your data will inevitably become 5318008, so it can't be all bad!

    10. Re:On SATA? by postmortem · · Score: 1

      PCI bus (133MB/s) is more limited than SATA (300- 600MB/s) which lies directly on southbridge controller. Even PCI express would have hard time beating on-board SATA controller

    11. Re:On SATA? by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      That's ridiculous. As long as you're connected to the internet, the "series of tubes" would catch any loose data before it could possibly leak out the bottom.

      The true nature of Identity Thrift discovered. News at 11...

    12. Re:On SATA? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      I don't see why they don't put data chips in the original Heinz ketchup bottles.. Nothing ever comes out of those.

      Yeah, until someone writes a virus that hits it on the secret spot - the '57' on the side.

    13. Re:On SATA? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Move the air bubble to the bottom of the bottle before you take the lid off (so invert the bottle, wait a bit, and then open it). The ketchup comes right out.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    14. Re:On SATA? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but if it was a PCI card, we couldn't plug these into external JBOD arrays that combine 24 drives and allows volumes/LUNs to be carved out and served up to various servers... Actually, it'd be nice if they made it SAS instead of SATA.

      WTH is with high-end hardware using the low-performance ATA standard instead of SCSI nowadays, anyways?

    15. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a 5 leaked out. Hear you go:

      On the plus side, some of your data will inevitably become 55318008, so it can't be all bad!

      (I made it fat so it would get stuck.)

    16. Re:On SATA? by Alamais · · Score: 2, Funny

      Er, a lot of the boards I've seen have the SATA controller connected internally to a PCIe bridge. Besides that, even with PCIe 1.0 you get 250MB/s per lane. A 4x card thus readily beats SATA. A 16x 2.0 card would 8GB/s. I want an SSD that can fill that.

      *cough*and for $100 plz*cough*

      ...might as well dream big.

    17. Re:On SATA? by houstonbofh · · Score: 2, Informative

      WTH is with high-end hardware using the low-performance ATA standard instead of SCSI nowadays, anyways?

      They are trying to turn the "I" in RAID back to inexpensive.

    18. Re:On SATA? by zippthorne · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or shake it vigorously before attempting to pour (frequency is more important than amplitude. The higher, the better). Ketchup, like much of California, is susceptible to vibration-induced liquefaction. You look ridiculous, though.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    19. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're confusing this with a related but experimental technology, the liquid-state drive, or LSD.

    20. Re:On SATA? by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, but if it was a PCI card, we couldn't plug these into external JBOD arrays that combine 24 drives and allows volumes/LUNs to be carved out and served up to various servers... Actually, it'd be nice if they made it SAS instead of SATA.

      WTH is with high-end hardware using the low-performance ATA standard instead of SCSI nowadays, anyways?

      If you take a look, they aren't all that far apart.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    21. Re:On SATA? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      They are that far apart. SAS = 6 Gigabits/second transfer, SATA = 3 Gigabits/second transfer.

      SAS supports multi-initiator, SATA does not.

      SAS supports tagged command queuing, SATA supports only the sluggish native command queuing spec.

      SAS devices support dual porting and multipath I/O allowing you to place devices in two different SAS domains for double I/O transfer per device and fault resilience, SATA does not have these options.

      SAS devices have a unique id, WWN (SCSI ID), that can uniquely identify the device: SATA devices are identified only by port number, and this has scalability consequences.

      A SAS channel can service a SAS domain with >16,000 devices using expanders, there is a great deal of expandability there. With SATA, one port = one drive.

      SAS error-recovery and reporting is provided by the SCSI command set and is much richer than the SMART command set used by ATA devices.

    22. Re:On SATA? by gzunk · · Score: 3, Informative

      An SDD attached to a PCI express slot could indeed beat an on-board SATA contoller. On my motherboard, the PCI express slots are linked to the motherboard via a 6.4GT/s QPI link, whereas the onboard SATA controllers have to go through the ICH10R and then via a x4 PCIe link (ESI) link to get to the 6.4GT/s link.

      So, PCIe card could be up to 4 times faster than onboard...

    23. Re:On SATA? by noidentity · · Score: 1

      If you put it on a card, then the chips will sit vertically, and the data will leak out of the bottom. They have to be put in a disk enclosure and mounted horizontally so that they bits stay inside the chip.

      Obviously he was planning on using memory chips with perpendicular technology. With these, they are better stacked vertically. Keep up, man!

    24. Re:On SATA? by Real1tyCzech · · Score: 1

      No, YOU look ridiculous!!

    25. Re:On SATA? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Really, if you want to spend that kind of money, put it on a card. It would be much faster on the PCI buss that SATA for a negligible incremental cost.

      An SSD that fits in existing 3.5" SATA hot-plug trays would be extremely interesting to us. All of the SSDs that I know about are the tiny 2.5" designs.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    26. Re:On SATA? by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Or shake it vigorously before attempting to pour (frequency is more important than amplitude. The higher, the better).

      Important tip, the cap must be firmly screwed on the bottle during the liquefaction operation (trust me on this)

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    27. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and your point is?

    28. Re:On SATA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So silly. Even this monster SSD is not capable of saturating SATA's 3Gbps bandwidth, nor are a dozen of them even. Putting the drive on a card adds a lot of additional complications (now you need drivers in order to use it, can't be used in a 1U server) without actually improving speed in any meaningful way.

    29. Re:On SATA? by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, some of your data will inevitably become 5318008, so it can't be all bad!

      Odds of current data randomly turning into 5318008...slim.
      Odds of current data relating to 5318008 turning into something else...significant.

      I'll stick with my right side up setup, thank you very much...

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    30. Re:On SATA? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Well then clearly the SSD controllers should be mounted underneath the storage chips, and the whole assembly placed on a paint shaker that activates on sequential reads.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    31. Re:On SATA? by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      ioDrive already exists. Why reinvent the wheel when you can slap a few controllers on and save all that R&D? Especially since it'd take years to catch up to FusionIO.

      4 controllers for the drives, then two RAID controllers to make it two groups of two, and another to make it one group of two groups of two. Perfect!... if you ignore the cost.

    32. Re:On SATA? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      What is this nonsense?!? Everyone knows that the motherboard sits inside of a case in a horizontal position. The floppy drive is on the right, and the secondary floppy, or hard drive if you have one, goes below that. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to reboot with my specially crafted CONFIG.SYS file so that I can play some Doom.

  3. Still has a long way to go before its viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    128 GB $549.99
    256 GB $1,014.99
    512 GB $1,599.99
    1024 GB $3,315.99

    1. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not bad. The 512 gig SSD is only 30 times more expensive than the 512 gig HDD I bought at staple last week.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      If you need some really hardcore I/O performance, it could easily be worth it. My company tried putting some SSDs in the 1U servers that we load with our software and sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars to big enterprise customers. Those guys could cook.

      Sure, we could spend a few million on engineers and hope to wring out a fraction of the performance improvement, but we could also spend that few million making our software more useful to our customers in other ways.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess for small values of "only". I think the more important metric is this:

      Cheapest 2.5" SSD (40GB): 696,- NOK
      Cheapest 2.5" HDD (160GB): 285,- NOK

      That's now <2.5 times the difference. Sure it's 10x the difference if you price it per gigabyte, but only if you need 160GB. That's what'll trigger the SSD revolution, the bulk storage will come much later.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      While a 30x price-per-space difference is less bad than it was in the past, as long as the magnetic drives are improving at a similar rate, it will take the solid state drives a *long* time to catch up.

      IMO, there's one turning point coming: when good 128 GB flash drives drop to well under $100, they become viable for system-and-main-programs drives in desktops. Judging by the $550 price given, that means about three more Moore's Law generations ( $550 / 2^3 = $68.75), which will take about 4.5 years. 128 GB won't be enough for everyone - conceivably OS (windows 8?) + critical programs/games may exceed that by 2014 - but it'll be enough for many. You'd probably want a flash/magnetic hybrid for laptops, since they generally come with 160-512 GB these days and you can't fit two hard drives in most laptops without using the optical drive bay...

      But for bulk storage, it's much harder. If magnetic drives *gain nothing at all ever again*, it would still take 5 Moore's Law generations (7.5 years) for this company's flash drives to match them in price-per-space. But, IIRC, solid state is only advancing slightly faster than magnetic. That probably delays their convergence to more than ten years from now, and it may be that either tech runs into its physical limits before they meet, and we all end up using something else that hasn't been invented yet.

    5. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by mysidia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What about 4gb and 8gb SSDs? There are some you can get for under $200. You can find a 2 or 4gb SSD for under $100, if you look hard enough.

    6. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Informative

      What about 4gb and 8gb SSDs? There are some you can get for under $200. You can find a 2 or 4gb SSD for under $100, if you look hard enough.

      He quoted prices in Norwegian Kroner (1$US = 5.66NOK according to oanda.com). So he found a 40GB SSD for $123 (696NOK), presumably including the absurd Norwegian VAT, making a US equivalent price below $100.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    7. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by bcmm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Everybody complaining that they cost more than HDDs is missing an important point: they're better than HDDs.

      Remember, backup tape still has a large bytes/cent advantage over HDDs. I take it your laptop keep everything on tape?

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    8. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not bad for the 128GB $549. A HP SAS 15k drive is about $500-$550.

    9. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      backup tape still has a large bytes/cent advantage over HDDs

      Really? I've not tried buying tapes but looking at the prices they seem about the same cost per GB as hard disks for the tapes and the drives cost more than a decent capacity disk.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Unnamed+Chickenheart · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Is 25% VAT absurd in your opinion?

      --
      urd
    11. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      If you're buying one of these, you're not buying high data density per dollar, you're buying raw performance. It's the same argument applied to the WD Raptors when they were unleashed upon the masses. Viability is always relative - someone out there with money to burn who wants speed they probably won't be able to quantify in real-world use will nevertheless buy the 1TB variant, just as there are plenty of people out there that buy $300K sports cars for whatever reasons.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    12. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by afidel · · Score: 1

      About in line with FC 15k drive pricing. I know I would rather have an array full of those 512GB parts then full of 450GB FC drives IF the background defrag could keep up with our typical workload.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    13. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by afidel · · Score: 1

      800/1600 tapes are $50 and can be sent multiple times by courier. HDD's are almost there on cost/GB but that technologies already a few years old.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    14. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as a 512GB hard drive. Perhaps you meant 500GB.

      You also got ripped off if you paid $53 for it. You can get them for $40 elsewhere.

    15. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However, Blu-Ray is also technologically superior to DVD, yet I still know plenty people that will most likely not get a Blu-Ray player/drive in the next five years. Why? DVD is adequate, HDTVs are expensive and on the storage side BD-R is both much too expensive and much too slow.

      DVD and modern HDDs hit the sweet spot of "good enough". They're fast enough for most people, they're resilient enough for most people (granted, this is helped by the little long-term data we have on SSDs being inconsistent) and they're really cheap. SSDs are faster, lighter, quieter, possibly more resilient and take lesser power - but they're nowhere near the pricing sweet spot and that's enough to make people settle for HDDs.

      It's all about priority. Most people are happy with the performance of their 7200 RPM drive so speed doesn't factor in. Weight and power drain appeals to netbook users but few want their netbook to go outside the 100-200 USD range just because of a storage option. Resilience is great for notebooks but again the high USD/GB figure means that storage is either small or very expensive (which is fine with those who don't need much space and unacceptable with those who do).

      SSDs are getting there but like Blu-Ray they need to displace a technology that is already "good enough" for most users. SSDs' advantages are essentially "soft skills"; until they can become competitive in what many people are primarily looking after (cheap storage), they won't displace them.


      The mistake all those people complaining about SSD complainers make is that they assume everyone has lots of money to spend on equipment. People on a budget go for what gives them the most bang for the buck. So far, many people take only storage size to contribute to the bang, therefore SSDs are nowhere near competitive for the budget buyer.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    16. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by movercast · · Score: 1

      What about if you calculate the cost of a IOP instead of the cost of a GB? Are there some applications in which you need a speedy read vs a cheap bit?

    17. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Everybody complaining that they cost more than HDDs is missing an important point: they're better than HDDs.

      Yes. That's why I predict the next Nintendo console will go back to using solid state cartridges. - On second thought, no. Cost does matter and a 50 gigabyte cart would be horribly expensive.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Is 25% VAT absurd in your opinion?

      Speaking as a Norwegian, and on top of all the other taxes we're paying, yes. Norway is going to kill itself by the heaviest public sector in Europe, propped up by oil funds for as long as it lasts while killing off all competition-exposed industry and services. Then we'll collapse like the US is doing, a country full of consumers and debt. That's my prediction of Norway 15-30 years from now.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    19. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Is 25% VAT absurd in your opinion?

      Yes, since VAT is only 22% where I live, and that's already too high (it's 19% in Germany).

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    20. Re:Still has a long way to go before its viable by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Remember, backup tape still has a large bytes/cent advantage over HDDs.

      Not for most reasonably double-digit values of "quantity of backup tapes".

      A 1TB HDD is around $80.

      With a $1,140 drive and a $60 controller ($1,200 total), it would take roughly two hundred and forty 400GB tapes @ $27/ea just to match the $80/TB price point, let alone to significantly reduce it.

      I mean, sure, you could just buy the tape without the drive I guess, and then you can legitimately claim you paid $67.50/TB, saving you all of $13, and maybe you can find a friend with a tape drive to perform the actual read/write operations.

  4. Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Would someone tell me how this happened? We were the fucking vanguard of storage in this country. The Intel X-25 was the SSD to own. Then the other guy came out with a three-controller drive. Were we scared? Hell, no. Because we hit back with a little thing called the X-25E. That's three controllers and an extra port. For USB. But you know what happened next? Shut up, I'm telling you what happened--the bastards went to four controllers. Now we're standing around with our cocks in our hands, selling three controllers and a cache. USB or no, suddenly we're the chumps. Well, fuck it. We're going to five controllers.

    1. Re:Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C'mon, this was pretty funny.

      http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930

    2. Re:Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Don't worry.. this is just pre-release... they probably got a 6-controller version with a RAID1+0 version for enhanced read speeds just waiting :)

    3. Re:Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That post stolen from The Onion's much funnier article...

      http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930

    4. Re:Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment stolen from this much earlier reply...

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1453268&cid=30195318

    5. Re:Fuck everything, we're doing five controllers by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      They'll actually just cram an HDD in there, add "Power" to the name and sell the vibrations as a feature.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  5. Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I thought it was pretty clear that what matters for most desktop users is the random small write speed. See, for example, Anandtech's SSD anthology and later followups.

    So, where are the 4 KiB random write benchmarks? They are conspicuously absent from this review. We can see the effect, I think, in the IOMeter results -- the X-25M outperforms the OCZ drive across the board on those, despite the OCZ win in the throughput tests. But, personally, I'd like to see the raw numbers on 4 KiB random writes. Have this many reviewers really learned so little about benchmarking SSDs since they came out?

    1. Re:Random write speed? by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm really only interested in cost per gigabyte at this point, among the quality vendors, every single drive is faster than a spinning disk (and the trend is generally that the performance is getting better and better, not to mention that they probably won't reach prices I find attractive before trim support is widespread and working well).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Random write speed? by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because a 1TB drive that costs $3300 is aimed at "most desktop users".

    3. Re:Random write speed? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Good point, but pretty much every other heavy use is interested in this. If you just need high sequential speeds then RAIDed HDDs have been doing that well for much lower cost. In general servers are extremely interested in random write performance and IOPS, even more than desktop users.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Random write speed? by thue · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The slow random write will also be a problem for some very common server workloads, such as databases.

    5. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This drive is a performance-oriented drive. If you only care about cost per GB, you won't be buying it. Anyone who is buying it, cares about performance; neglecting the aspect of performance that most desktop users will find most relevant is shoddy reviewing.

      FWIW, I mostly agree with you — I care more about cost per GB than raw performance. That said, I still care about performance. Fortunately, most of the good vendors have drives with good performance now.

    6. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      The 256 GB drive is cheaper -- into the price range of the dedicated power user. OCZ doesn't sell to the server market, they sell to the desktop user. The power user on a desktop machine still cares about random write performance. They're far more likely to *also* care about sequential read / write performance, but they still care about random writes too.

    7. Re:Random write speed? by Sulphur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just like old times. Sell your car and buy a hard disk.

    8. Re:Random write speed? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The drive outperforms the mechanical drive in IOPs and block reads/writes which is what matters.

      Databases actually tend to use larger block reads and writes, the drive would be perfect for most databases, that is, database load is just the type of load where this drive is better than other SSDs...

      With suitable amount of system memory and host controller with reasonable cache, this drive would be phenomenal in table scan performance.

      It's application loads that are heavy in small random reads and writes that the drive isn't that good for compared to some other high-end SSDs.

      Still 5000 random IOPs in 1 3.5" package is nothing to sneeze at.

      Most hard drives pull off a small fraction of that.

    9. Re:Random write speed? by mindstrm · · Score: 1

      Why not two drives....your performance drive, OS, shared libraries, commonly accessed software and files on super fast SSD.

      Data libraries, video, photos, etc, on cheap hard disk storage.

      One could also throw in the idea of SSD as cache like ZFS can incorporate now - so your working data-set ends up in SSD. The speed advantage of SSD (once the cache is primed) and the cheap value for storage.

    10. Re:Random write speed? by AllynM · · Score: 1

      4KiB by itself is not enough, it needs to be done at different queue depths as well. I do collect data on that but it's not part of the standard set of graphs we put out. Our Workstation test gets close enough on that one, and uses a more realistic mix of reads and writes. Nobody hits their drive with 4KiB random writes all day, so I refrain from going with those specific numbers.

      Starting with the review prior to this one, I revised the Average Transaction Time graphs to show something more along the lines of what you might have been looking for.

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
    11. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      That's my plan. I've got the cheap, big disk... I just have to buy the small, fast SSD.

    12. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      Yes, different queue depths is good too.

      No one cares only about the raw random write speed, just like they don't care only about the raw sequential speed. There are times when either matter. That's why I'd like to see both the raw numbers and the numbers for a specific workload.

      I find the average transaction time graphs hard to read. The semi-log plot format is a bit odd. It's also a bit hard to see relative changes when everything interesting is in the bottom 25-50% of the graph. Relative performance of two drives is easy enough to see, but between the semi-log plot and the sparse grid lines, it's really hard to see the scaling effects you're talking about.

    13. Re:Random write speed? by AllynM · · Score: 1

      > I find the average transaction time graphs hard to read. The semi-log plot format is a bit odd. It's also a bit hard to see relative changes when everything interesting is in the bottom 25-50% of the graph. Relative performance of two drives is easy enough to see, but between the semi-log plot and the sparse grid lines, it's really hard to see the scaling effects you're talking about.

      Agreed, and I thank you for the feedback. The data itself is logarithmic, not the scale. Highly optimized drives produce a flat output while drives without NCQ support will show as logarithmic. The graphs were really useless for SSD's the way we used to present them. I continue to work on better ways to present the data without overloading the average reader.

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
    14. Re:Random write speed? by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why not two drives....your performance drive, OS, shared libraries, commonly accessed software and files on super fast SSD.
      Ok for desktop users but most laptops either can't accomodate two drives full stop or require some other significant component (often the optical drive afaict) to be sacrificed to get a second drive.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    15. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      The plot was semi-log: the x-axis values were 1, 2, 4, which is an exponential progression, but were plotted at equal spacing. You would make it a linear plot by having the spacing between the depth=1 and depth=2 points be half the space between the depth=2 and depth=4 points. More interesting to me, I suspect, would be the log-log plot where the y-axis also varies logarithmically; then the linear behavior (doubling of queue depth causes doubling of average time) would show as linear, but so would other common scaling behaviors (doubling of queue depth causes 1.5x increase in average time, for example). However, that's probably harder to interpret for the average reader who isn't used to reading scientific papers and data sheets and the like.

      Better graphs would be good; so would having the raw numbers that produced them. The format of the file copy tests is good, but I prefer the line plots for the queue depth data. Perhaps just a link to the raw numbers below the charts?

      Speaking of the file copy tests, I just noticed something: the graph makes it look like the drives are uniformly faster at copying small files than large ones (since lower numbers are better, according to the chart heading). In reality, it looks like the majority of the difference in the size of the bars for a single drive comes from the fact that it takes it less time to copy less data! In order to see the effect of changes in file size, it would be nice to have all the data on the same scale, either by having the same number of bytes at each file size, or by giving the data in MB/s transfer rate. I'm not sure which I prefer, but having the numbers for the Colossus be 44.9, 44.7, 23.2, 6.4 is odd; they should really be 44.9, 44.7, 46.4, 64.

      I'm glad you find the feedback useful.

    16. Re:Random write speed? by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      Depending on what OS you use, you could buy a small, fast SSD in the form factor of a PCI card with four RAM slots, a SATA data connector, and a lithium-ion battery for the off-chance you lose power. Put your OS on that, and you've got something that'll boot in a few seconds rather than close to a minute, again depending on what OS you run.

      I'm talking about the Gigabyte i-RAM, in case you've never heard of it.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    17. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      The drive to compare it to isn't a mechanical disk, but the Intel X-25M (or X-25E). The X-25M does better at small random writes, for a similar cost per GB. If you care about performance per dollar, the Intel drive still wins.

    18. Re:Random write speed? by afidel · · Score: 1

      The only databases where tablescan performance matters is datamarts, for almost everything else it's random I/O as in most OLTP systems. Oracle and NTFS (SQL Server) both default to 4KB access units though I've gone as high as 16KB for Oracle and 64KB on NTFS (the max for current versions of NTFS)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    19. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      What few benchmarks I can find for the i-RAM make it look unimpressive when compared to an SSD. By the time I put 8GiB in it (barely enough for / and /home, and there are other things I'd like on the fast disk too) it costs as much as an X-25 — and the performance isn't that much better, if it all.

      I'd rather have the extra space. Any of the good SSDs are fast enough, and a little more beyond that isn't worth a huge sacrifice in capacity (or increase in price). From a practical standpoint, I'd see a bigger performance boost by being able to put more of my data on the SSD than I would from having less of the data on the slightly faster iRAM.

      The i-RAM would be a lot more interesting if it was a PCIe card, with performance numbers to match. There's no good reason a DRAM based device should have performance numbers limited by SATA speeds. (And yes, I'm aware such things exist — but the price tag removes them from the comparison for me.)

    20. Re:Random write speed? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Informative

      The X-25M is an 160gb HDD, half the capacity. The IOPs of SSD drives are so large, that in fact, a 30 or 40% IOPs difference is basically irrelevent for DB apps; transfer throughputs for random reads/writes at various block sizes are the most telling factor.

      Being able to quote 30000 IOPS is useless, if that number cannot be sustained with at least a 256K blocksize, commonly used for filesystems and database apps. Small random reads/writes are rare in the most demanding real-world apps.

      And the Collossus showed to be quite superior to the X-25M in this regard.

      We can see quite plainly the OCZ drive outperformed the X-25M on the file copy tests by a massive margin. And in the average write transfer speed compared to the X-25M.

      The X-25M plain wasn't good at all with large writes.

      The OCZ Colossus' random write capabilities were just plain impressive as shown in YAPT Random writes test. 200 MB/s random writes, for 128Kb blocks/larger, VS 100 MB/s with the Intel X-25M

      And even at 64K blocks, it was no worse than the X-25M

    21. Re:Random write speed? by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've read about the DRAM-based devices that actually use the bus for more than just a source of power, and I agree, the price tag removes them from consideration.

      The only thing the i-RAM has on a Flash-based SSD is number of write cycles before the thing starts going bad. It's effectively infinite, so long as the DRAM itself doesn't start developing issues.

      Anyway, I just threw the i-RAM out there for the sake of comparison, it's cheap enough to at least be considered, even if only for the sake of novelty as opposed to actually being as practical as a Flash-based SSD.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    22. Re:Random write speed? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      You think most databases in the wild are 10TB+ OLTP systems running Oracle?

      I think the most common database apps are 5g - 50gb MS SQL Server and MySQL databases, used for a slew of applications.

      And table scans are very common, especially when performing certain joins.

      In many cases a table scan is much faster than an index scan in real-world databases due to I/O block sizes, and this is a decision that the query planner will make over time, reliant on statistics available to it.

      In real-world databases, using indexes would be slower than simply scanning, for many common types of queries, especially when much of the dataset will be selected by the query, or have operations applied to it..

      e.g. SELECT SUM(*) from mytable where id > 10;

      If 90% of the rows have id>10, there is no point in starting with an index seek.

    23. Re:Random write speed? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      PPS. make that SELECT SUM((xvalue+yvalue)/2) from mytable where id > 10;

      Even more important cases for table scans arise with GROUP BY queries, but lest I digress.

    24. Re:Random write speed? by AllynM · · Score: 1

      Righto - I had Y-axis on the brain. The typical configuration for IOMeter has it ramp queue depth logarithmically. I could shift the axis to linear, but there would be missing data points. Adding tests to fill in those points adds greater risk of fragmenting the drive during the test.

      Excellent observation on the file copy test. I'll take that on board as well.

      evanbd - if you see this, lets continue via email.

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
    25. Re:Random write speed? by AllynM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you're missing something about IOPS. With a 256K block size, you'd be lucky to crack 1000 IOPS over a SATA 3Gb/sec link. At such a large block size you hit the interface bandwidth limit way before you hit any IOPS limit.

      Multithreaded database applications do not hit a drive with sequential 256K block requests. Under load, there will be several of those requests occurring simultaneously. Given the timing, a non-NCQ drive may receive the parallel requests rapidly alternating among multiple 256K streams in differing locations. The now highly random stream will bring non-NCQ drives to their knees, while an X25 will just keep right on cruising at very close to 100 MB/sec.

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
    26. Re:Random write speed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is that modern hard drives are fast enough for anything. Nobody cares that the SSD is a bit faster writing in very specific, controlled situations when it costs many times what a hard drive does.

      Also with RAM being so cheap, it's easy and inexpensive for anyone to just pop 4GB or 8GB of RAM into their PC. Both Windows Vista and Windows 7 are very good about using memory productively (unlike Windows XP which would just stupidly sit on it, even when it wasn't being used) so your most used and essential stuff would be cached in RAM anyways. Having an SSD isn't going to make a big enough impact on performance for people to spend 50 times what a standard hard drive costs.

    27. Re:Random write speed? by MojoStan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's my plan. I've got the cheap, big disk... I just have to buy the small, fast SSD.

      You have heard about Kingston's 40GB SSD that uses Intel's X25-M G2 controller, right?

      It's supposed to be $115 ($130 with 3.5" adapter kit), but it's hard to find in stock now.

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    28. Re:Random write speed? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Multithreaded database applications do not hit a drive with sequential 256K block requests.

      They very well may hit the drives with 256K random block requests, especially when committing a large write. To a great extent, this is dependent on the specific OS and the filesystem involved, how much caching is done, including read-ahead caching.

      Your average SATA drive can push 60 random IOPs at 256K, not close to 1000.

      With ZFS in particular, the DB writes are prone to occur in 128K blocks sequential, and the reads are prone to be random, even for a multi-threaded DB.

      While reads are frequently 16 - 64K

      And 100 MB/s isn't that impressive, when the transfer technology should be capable of 768 MB/s due to the 6 gigabit SATA interface.

    29. Re:Random write speed? by evanbd · · Score: 1

      Yeah. It was supposed to be under $100 including rebate according to the announcement, but it isn't. I may get the 80 GB Intel drive if the price drops appreciably before the Kingston one is widely available. I'm also considering waiting a little longer just to let other people find firmware bugs...

  6. Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by thomasdz · · Score: 5, Informative

    People think all SSDs are the same. They aren't. Consumer SSDs are typically MLC and have a failure rate far above "enterprise" SSDs which are SLC. I wish you could buy consumer SLC SSDs

    --
    Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
    1. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by lukas84 · · Score: 4, Informative

      OCZ sells some in their Vertex line. They're still expensive as fuck.

    2. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      SSD, MLC, SLC, OCZ... WTF?

    3. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Consumer SSDs are typically MLC and have a failure rate far above "enterprise" SSDs which are SLC. I wish you could buy consumer SLC SSDs

      You'd be the first person I know claiming to have any solid data on that, so I'd love to see it. What we do know is that MLC drives will wear out about 10x faster after ~10000 rewrites instead of ~100000 rewrites/cell, but regular desktop use is unlikely to hit those limits while an enterprise server working 24x7 might. But I've never seen any data to indicate there's a difference in failure rates up to that limit, please enlighten us.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by El+Capitaine · · Score: 5, Informative

      OCZ - OCZ Technology - Manufacturer of hardware - OCZ Technology

      SSD - Solid-State-Drive - Type of hard drive - Solid State Drive

      MLC - Multi-level cell - Technology used in making SSDs - Multi-level Cell

      SLC - Single-level cell - Technology used in making SSDs - Single-level Cell

      A little search can go a long way...

    5. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Kjella · · Score: 1

      MLC = Multi-Level Cell stores more than one bit/cell increasing density at a performance and lifespan cost, unlike SLC = Single-Level Cell.

      OCZ is just OCZ, AFAIK that's not a TLA. ;)

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He doesn't have data; he's just saying "failure rate" when he means "endurance". (Of course, for a fixed (intense) workload less endurance would necessarily produce a shorter MTTF, but desktop and enterprise SSDs aren't intended for the same workloads.)

    7. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by maugle · · Score: 5, Funny

      Have you tried running BSD on an OCZ MLC SSD while on LSD? OMG.

    8. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF? BBQ!

    9. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you tried running BSD on an OCZ MLC SSD while on LSD? OMG.

      LOL!

    10. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Falconhell · · Score: 2, Funny

      Can I buy a vowel?

    11. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet i could fuck a lot for 3+k$...

    12. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Fweeky · · Score: 1

      The MLC X25-M is rated at 20GB/day for a 5 year service life, why would most people care?

    13. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should have been modded funny instead, for pretending to take the parents joke seriously...

    14. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have, in fact, considered it. I think I'll swap the LSD for a nice IPA, though.

    15. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Pyrion · · Score: 1

      They'll map their Windows pagefile to it and between usual user loads and SuperFetch making a mess of the standby page tables, 20GB a day of pointless background load doesn't seem that unreasonable to expect. This puts it back within the realm of reliability for a standard hard drive, and performance aside, the next easiest way of justifying the higher cost per gigabyte is to claim far greater reliability.

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
    16. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by noidentity · · Score: 3, Funny

      A little search can go a long way...

      Yeah, but it's even easier to have someone else do the searching for us. Good work; keep it up!

    17. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      MMM, BBQ.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    18. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      OCZ - OCZ Technology - Manufacturer of hardware - OCZ Technology

      SSD - Solid-State-Drive - Type of hard drive - Solid State Drive

      MLC - Multi-level cell - Technology used in making SSDs - Multi-level Cell

      SLC - Single-level cell - Technology used in making SSDs - Single-level Cell

      A little search can go a long way...

      ..just to complete your list there:

      WTF - Write Till Fucked - Lifetime test for SSDs, usually measured in days - [Link Removed]

    19. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by psych0munky · · Score: 1

      Hell no!! Two O's in that mass of TLA's should be enough for anybody!!

    20. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tinkered with that one day, When I woke up the next morning, I said to myself WTF, A GNU, P2P, ON a 1TB BSD MOBO, with OCZ, and 4 MLC, SSD, RAID 0, running stable 6GHZ of RAM and 2GBL2 CASH, AND 4GBvRAM SLI with 1GB CASH! The LSD, seemed to be the only downfall..

    21. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by movercast · · Score: 1

      1. Where's your study? 2. Just call up Intel and ask them to send you some SLC SSDs, I'm sure you could have them make up a few in a jiffy!

    22. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a Samsung 32gb SLC SSD in my media center, and it cost around £100 around a year ago (novatech.co.uk)
      I installed a Samsung 64gb MLC SSD in my laptop and that also cost around £100, at the same time.

      To be honest, I was really hoping the SLC would show demonstrable real-world improvement over the MLC, but it doesn't at all. However, it's silent, fast, and all my media is on the network, so still a great drive for job.

    23. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Trinn · · Score: 1

      A or E? (sorry, I had to...if you don't get the reference, go watch "Groove". PLUR!)

    24. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I think the better question is, has anyone ever run BSD on an OCZ MLC SSD without LSD?

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    25. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      It's more the controller than the cell type. Most SSDs are stupid when it comes to writing files. Oh sure, they try to wear level - but certain cells that are constantly used by the FS will get nuked, regardless. That only changes when you have a smarter FS, or a controller that is fast enough and smart enough to ignore the OS requests and remap everything wherever it wants. And a lot of SSDs make the mistake of assuming every cell has the same longevity, which is a totally flawed assumption.

      Controllers that can wear-level properly, giving you heavy-load lifespans of a dozen years, require a ton of R&D. If they get it wrong the SSD corrupts lots of data, which just isn't an option for enterprise markets. That's why startups like FusionIO (which are now in the lead for fast SSDs) had such expensive drives, at first. They spent years designing before bringing a product to market.

      But hey, it is doable. The ioDrive is the proof. Software like ZFS is also proof. The "perfect" (or close to) FS or storage algorithms are possible, if you have the engineers and money to throw at it.

    26. Re:Get the word out: SLC vs MLC by Fweeky · · Score: 1

      Right, and it's less likely to die from shock or head crash or manufacturing defect, and when it runs out of erase cycles it fails soft; writes fail, but it's still readable; certainly a better failure mode than most drives. Yes, the X25-M has a 5 year design life, just as platter based drives, but I suspect it's also more likely to actually achieve it, firmware update screwups aside.

  7. Useless by ShooterNeo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This kludgey design is a bad idea for several reasons :

    1. Despite throwing the kitchen sink at the problem, those indilinx chips are still much slower than Intel's controller at small, random reads and writes.

    2. Since the drive needs four indilinx controllers rather than 1, some complex packaging, AND 3 RAID controllers it's going to cost a lot more per gigabyte. It's probably also more failure prone. And the MSRPs bear that out : this is a lot more expensive than the MSRPs for the equivalent Intel product.

    3. Doesn't support native TRIM support

    4. Biggest problem of all : the drive is bandwidth starved because it's on the SATA bus rather than on the PCI express bus. Furthermore, those slow internal RAID chips don't help matters. So instead of supporting sequential reads at 600 megabytes/second, it's capped at about 240. Lame.

    1. Re:Useless by seanalltogether · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What I don't understand is that if they're going to make a RAID SSD in a 3.5 enclosure, why don't they give it 2 SATA links in so they can saturate 2 buses? In fact, how many SATA links could you support in a single 3.5 enclosure?

    2. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It has all the earmarks of a 'just cause we could' design. Not one people really need. It ignores every other feature everyone has been asking for and only puts in 1 (size).

      Using basically last generations (not this gen with trim and better controllers) SSD tech to build something. They have smashed together 4 256meg drives, put it in RAID, slapped a (at least 500 dollars) premium price tag on it and called it a day. Then like you pointed out putting all that BW on one line so you do not even get the full benefit of all that speed you put in. I would bet the power requirements are like 4 drives.

      The biggest issue I can think of was leaving out TRIM. Wow. It has been know for at least a year that TRIM is needed. To ship a new SSD these days with no trim suppport. Wow ... just wow.

      Maybe if you were drive bay starved in a rack that was already full this would make some sense, and were already using this type of drive, and needed 4x the HD space.

      I personally think SATA is done. We need a new physical HD transport layer for this. Plugging it right into the PCI bus sounds cludgy to me (but hey I could be wrong). It may be time to bring back some sort of ribbon cable or crank the speed on the wire even more.

    3. Re:Useless by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      Actually, plugging right into the PCI express bus is a great solution. It's more than fast enough for as fast as consumer SSDs are likely to get. (at a certain point, you stop getting meaningful performance advantages because the CPU is the bottleneck)

      Most SATA controllers today actually link to the PCI express bus : a direct connect removes a whole unnecessary layer of chips in the drive and in the motherboard.

      It's well supported, and the connectors and chips are reliable and inexpensive. Yes, it would even work for laptops, though they'd need to use a special form factor connector.

    4. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only thing I can think of is that many server cases have slide-in 3.5" harddrive bays (i.e. no SATA cables, just a circuit board behind the slots with the connectors in the right places) This is at least just a drop-in replacement.

    5. Re:Useless by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      Because if you give it 1+n SATA controllers, you're essentially handing the "RAID" part of the setup to some software drivers - either host-based RAID (which is notoriously slow with SSD's) or some SSD-specific code that does... host based RAID, although hopefully more reliably. This is the only way you can get more bandwidth out of SATA2 connections - by glomming them together. SAS is a different beast (we have a bunch of 6Gbps SAS caddies at work) but I didn't see anywhere that the SSD supports both SAS and SATA connections, so I suspect it doesn't.

      Personally, I've got two OCZ SSD's - a 30GB Vertex and a 120GB Agility - and I love them... (boot time on my HTPC is now 5s... with a BIOS preamble of 25s :rolleyes:) but I'm not buying any more until 6Gbps chips are plentiful and bug free, as even these SSD's are read-limited solely by the bus speed. AT's benches of the upcoming Marvell chipset put it slower than the Intel one, so looks like I'll be waiting for Intel or AMD to bring out a chipset and get the kinks ironed out.

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
  8. And by DaMattster · · Score: 3, Informative

    It comes with a Collosus of a price tag :)

  9. Forget that by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm waiting for the Guardian model.

    1. Re:Forget that by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Don't put both in the same computer, though. Otherwise you'll be swamped with "THERE IS ANOTHER DRIVE" messages.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  10. Specifications are wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Colossus has only 2 Indilinx controllers. It's the Colossus Cascade that has 4 (along with an even higher price).

  11. SLC pricing is a scam by haruchai · · Score: 4, Interesting

    and the companies ( Hello, Samsung!) should be ashamed. It wasn't until a few years ago that MLC was commercially viable but it only increases
    by a factor of TWO. That's one of the lowest, most pointless tradeoffs ever in recent computing.

    So, I get merely TWICE the storage for a TEN TIMES reduction in average component life, a 40% reduction in write speed, without fancy controller
    redesign, and we get to enjoy all the ludicrous "benefits" of MLC for the price that SLC would have been anyway, through market forces and silicon die shrink

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    1. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      MLC echos a design philosophy in computer engineering these days. Build stuff to work until exactly one day after the warranty expires. Even with adding myraid ways of error correction, it is like substituting road apples for apples for Thanksgiving pie, and pouring on the spices and sugar to minimize the poo taste.

      MLC just needs to be shitcanned and the focus be on getting SLC technology better/faster/cheaper.

    2. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I agree with you about MLC but I can't see how it'll happen. There are only a handful of manufacturers and the average user has no idea of the differences, advantages and tradeoffs so unless some other tech comes along to shake things up, we're stuck with the status quo.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    3. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are MLCs really that bad? I'm finding budget SSDs with MLCs, with warranties of several years. If the drive lasts several years, I'm a satisfied customer. I don't care if an SLC-based drive would have lasted longer, because by that time, I'll be replacing my drive with a larger one, anyway.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    4. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      and the companies ( Hello, Samsung!) should be ashamed. It wasn't until a few years ago that MLC was commercially viable but it only increases by a factor of TWO. That's one of the lowest, most pointless tradeoffs ever in recent computing.

      So, I get merely TWICE the storage for a TEN TIMES reduction in average component life, a 40% reduction in write speed, without fancy controller redesign, and we get to enjoy all the ludicrous "benefits" of MLC for the price that SLC would have been anyway, through market forces and silicon die shrink

      Right then, that just means that everyone will buy SLC drives and the MLC ones will be a complete flop. Right?

      Or maybe, just maybe, $$/GB actually matters to people, nobody cares about expected lifespans of more than 7 years because they'll have a new computer with a 10x bigger drive by then, and even with the slower writes they're still fast enough to generally put things back to being CPU/memory bound.

    5. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by Timothy+Brownawell · · Score: 1

      MLC just needs to be shitcanned and the focus be on getting SLC technology better/faster/cheaper.

      Keep in mind that no matter how good SLC gets, MLC will cost about half or a third (for the 3 bits/cell version that I hear is in the works) as much (or less really, due to higher volumes).

    6. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by haruchai · · Score: 1

      The transition was invisible to most - and that was the problem. It's not as if there were companies pitched into either the SLC or MLC camp.

      I only became aware of the transition back when USB flash drives were getting above 4 GB and found that finding ones >4GB with really fast writes speed was nearly impossible. I then stumbled onto a PDF from SuperTalent explaining the differences.

      Of course, $$/GB matters in the consumer market. Lower cost is what drives it, but the SLC drive pricing doesn't reflect the difference in component cost.
      Let's not forget that the JMicron fiasco gave consumer SSDs a black eye, from which I don't think they've yet recovered.
      Also, SSD pricing in general, apart from the Intel models, doesn't seem to have changed significantly since the start of 2009, while HD pricing has followed the usual year-over-year pattern.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    7. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that no matter how good SLC gets, MLC will cost about half or a third (for the 3 bits/cell version that I hear is in the works) as much (or less really, due to higher volumes).

      When I looked last month, SLC is 5x to 8x as expensive as MLC in $/GB.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    8. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by movercast · · Score: 1

      1. MLC > SLC ! MLC = 2*SLC (it depends on the number of bits per cell as there are 2, 3, 4, and 5 bits per cell technology). 2. MLC is great for MANY applications. i(application name here), SD cards, etc all need cheap flash and MLC is a great solution. 3. MLC has reduced writes/erases, not reads. If you just need to read data, use MLC. 4. How many writes/erases does your desktop do everyday? Apply number to MLC/SLC technology and account for the initial cost of the device. What is better for YOUR application? 5. Samsung SSD blow, go buy Intel drives and hear angles part as you boot your favorite linux distro.

    9. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by movercast · · Score: 1

      Ok, here's the deal. MLC and SLC die are the same. The only difference is how the guys in probe decide to burn them in. So, I can make you 1 die that is xGB or I can give you a die that is 2-3xGB. Same cost to me, what do you want? The only way to make them cheaper is to get more die/wafer this means: 1. Smaller die (more expense scanners). 2. Bigger wafers (may I please have 10 billion dollars for a fab for which the tools have not been invented yet?).

    10. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by movercast · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that no matter how good SLC gets, MLC will cost about half or a third (for the 3 bits/cell version that I hear is in the works) as much (or less really, due to higher volumes). When I looked last month, SLC is 5x to 8x as expensive as MLC in $/GB.

      DRAMEXCHANGE: 16Gb SLC $13.41, MLC: $4.92

    11. Re:SLC pricing is a scam by haruchai · · Score: 1

      So that's a 2.73 to 1 advantage for MLC in base chip cost. I'm going to assume that the cost to manufacture the completed module isn't significantly different for either type and *may* be lower for SLC because it doesn't need as sophisticated wear-leveling as MLC and seems to offer higher write performance with less sophisticated controllers.
      ( These are assumptions based on various online reviews and manufacturer spec sheets).

      Current pricing on newegg.com for Intel SSDs:

      Intel X25-E Extreme SSDSA2SH064G1 2.5" 64GB $799 ($12.48/GB)
      Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB $259 ($3.24/GB)

      So, by the time it becomes a consumer product, the spread is 3.85 to 1 in favor of MLC for the Intel drives.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  12. Colossus speed? by AndyCater · · Score: 1

    But is it faster than the 5000 char per second / 30 mile an hour tape I have on MY Colossus Mk 1?
      [http://www.bletchleypark.org]

  13. Speed by CSFFlame · · Score: 1

    I'm just speculating, but wouldn't it be MUCH faster to rip out the 2 internal drives and RAID those using your mobo or software? 2x SATAII vs 1xSATAII seems pretty obvious.

    1. Re:Speed by AllynM · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would, but don't do it with that one or you'll fry either the board. They rewired the internal connectors so they could pass 2 channels over a single SATA connector. The SATA data lines passed via the power connector IIRC, so yeah, don't do it :).

      http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=821&type=expert

      Allyn Malventano
      Storage Editor, PC Perspective

      --
      this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
  14. For the money, I'd still rather a Fusion-io card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  15. we need smaller cheaper SSD's for OS and software by Erikderzweite · · Score: 1

    HDD is cheap storage nowadays, but SSD with ist speed is great for putting programs on it. You rarely need more than 16 Gb for your installed software.
    Recently, I have bought a Verbatim SSD 16Gb Expresscard for my laptop, made it EXT2 and copied my software on it (left /var /tmp and such on HDD to avoid writes) and got my 25-seconds boot. And by that I mean complete system start with KDE4 and several apps like kopete, kbluetooth, knetworkmanager, klipper, korganizer + some plasmoids on desktop. Prior to SSD is was more like 55 seconds to 1:10. Startup time of heavy programs like Openoffice, GIMP or games has greatly improved as well. And there is room for improvement -- sata link for that chipset is too slow and takes about 8 seconds to start. I hope that this can be corrected in driver (it's a staging driver in the kernel).

    It would be ideal to have small, fast and ultra cheap SSD drives I can put in to accelerate my family member's desktops (won't probably happen, because they still have IDE drives, not SATA). USB is simply too slow for that task.

    A dual-disk notebook or desktop config with programs on smaller SSD and HDD for user data would to the trick for most users. Otherwise it's hard to notice the benefits of an upgrade to a faster CPU or more RAM.

  16. RAID+TRIM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why shouldn’t TRIM be supported in RAID configurations? That is just lack of implementation.

  17. Patience, HaruchaiSon by AllynM · · Score: 1
    --
    this sig was brought to you by the letter /.
  18. We already have faster transports... by argent · · Score: 1

    I personally think SATA is done. We need a new physical HD transport layer for this.

    You're right, 3 gig SATA isn't as fast as 6 gig SAS, 8 gig FC, or 10 gig iSCSI/FCoE?

  19. 3 bits per cell? by argent · · Score: 1

    Seems like 3 bits per cell will make for some interesting block allocation algorithms. :)

  20. Re:On SATA?Christmas gifts,shoes,handbags,ugg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SPAM - GARBAGE ALERT!!!!

  21. Test 4x Raid Intel 160GB G2 by llZENll · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why did not they not test a RAID with an Intel and OCZ drive with different controllers so you can actually compare if buying this $3000 SSD is better than buying $3000 normal SSDs and creating your own RAID array? Perhaps the garbage collection issue? Still it would be good to see.