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Calling Video Professor a Scam
palmerj3 writes in to give some wider attention to a piece on Techcrunch today in which Michael Arrington reacts to Video Professor's desperate attempts to shut him up after he called Video Professor a scam in a piece syndicated by the Washington Post. As described by Arrington, the ways the company's site operates (differently depending on where a visitor comes from) are strongly reminiscent of the practices a Senate committee recently condemned. (Here is a detailed example of another, similar scam, from a not-naive victim. Video Professor's tactics sound even more deceptive.) Video Professor seems to react with belligerence, not to mention legal threats, towards any hint of criticism. Please share any direct experiences you have with this outfit.
if you ask me, a tacky name like "video professor" is more than enough evidence of a scam.
weinersmith
Ordered a disk from them in 2005 as part of another promotion I think (one of those complete X deals). I never got the disk as it was improperly addressed, they dropped off my apartment number, so it was returned to sender, but I got a lovely $70 charge on my CC a month later. I called to complain and they offered to resend out the disk at first, but I finally got them to refund the charge. Ended up working out OK, but again, that was a few years ago.
Seriously, I know I could just google it but damnit slashdot, this sounds like a typical example of an editor knowing about a subject that a submission happens to be about yet most likely the average slashdot users doesn't have a clue as to what/who the fuck "Video professor" is.
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Not that the actual Video Professor teaching tool is a scam.
About two-thirds of the way down in the article:
Another scam: Video Professor. Users are offered in game currency if they sign up to receive a free learning CD from Video Professor. The user is told they pay nothing except a $10 shipping charge. But the fine print, on a different page from checkout, tells them they are really getting a whole set of CDs and will be billed $189.95 unless they return them. Most users never return them because they don't know about the extra charge. Woot. Again, sites like Offerpal and SuperRewards flow these offers through to game developers. See here for more on the Video Professor scam.
So, Video Professor is a scam, but it's a minor point in the article.
It's not a minor point in the article, it's the entire article. This is the article, the other link in the summary was just an aside...
The article really takes video professor apart. It's a total scam and there's no more doubt about it.
No its not a bad summary. The original article also mentions Video Professor as a scam below the FB/game currency scams.
You may not agree with it but TFA does call Video Professor a scam.
Not that the actual Video Professor teaching tool is a scam.
Their practices are a scam. I have no idea how useful the product is but as the problem seems to be with getting refunds
then I'd say its not worth the $190-290 you get billed for it if you cant navigate their deliberately confusing returns process.
Is that gaming market is doing a great job of trying to implode on itself. Seriously, if the way it works is the games that participate in offerbot scams are the successful ones... Well then I don't see it having a long term future. After all, there are TONS of PC games that are not that way, be they web based Flash games or retail games or whatever. There are more games than you can play in a lifetime out there that aren't like this. If this is what the gaming scene on Facebook is, my guess is that it'll implode and disappear in a couple years.
When I complained, they gave me a free credit report from their partners at freecreditreport.com. I don't know what this guy is complaining about.
Yes, the idiot is known to do bad business. Sadly if we start shutting down corrupt businesses we will shut down the American economy. We might have to shut down most state governments as well.
Yes it is, but there are other Video CDs sent to the person who tries the product including charges made to the credit card.
His business is like a "Book of the Month" or "CD of the Month" type club where the first one is free (for a limited time and if you don't send it back you get charged for it, hence the "try" part of "try my product") and if you don't like it you can call and cancel it and send the CD back to avoid being charged for it.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
well according to this
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/28/video-professor-washington-post-scamville/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)
(link is in the summary)
Essentially it appears your getting a couple of free CD's and paying a few dollars for shipping. In reality you get sent a bunch of stuff and billed $289.95 (they have your credit card details from the 4 dollar shipping charge) In theory there is a get out clause return one of the lessons within 10 days then you don't get billed but apparently thats not so easy to do.
Is it a scam? Well if you didn't intend to purchase $289.95 worth of cd's I'd say yes, because there is some text on the front page which says they will bill you $289.95 and its also hidden away in a bunch of small print they say no.
The order summary only mentions $4.56 shipping charges for 3 cd's
They target the gullible, computer novices who don't realize they are giving away access to their credit card.
Probably the only defense against this kind of abuse are one time credit cards but even then your credit score could take a bashing.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
In Canada this is called 'negative option billing'
It has been illegal here for 10+years.
No more CD of the month clubs
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
I tried out the Photoshop package. It actually has a lot of info and tutorials in there. However, from watching and reading ads, it seemed that it would be a reasonable price. I wasn't notified of the nearly $200 charge for it. I called theem and told them it was a rip-off and false advertising. They gave me my money back AND let me keep the course. That really surprised me.
His appeal is that he makes a complicated machine, a computer, seem easy to use and he'll make it easy for you. I actually have talked a couple of people who have done business with these folks (I'd elaborate but Slashdot has a problem with anonymous proxies - yeah, like posting as an AC cuts it). They are high school graduates at best, very intimidated by computers, and many times, they have to use a computer at work and they're scared of losing their jobs over it or they're older people who want to keep in touch with kids and grandkids over the internet. Keep in mind that not everyone out there is as comfortable with computers as we are.
As aside note, I woner if this was there when the lournalists looked at the site..
After your 10-day free trial, if you decide to keep the complete set, we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95.
- this is on the fron page of his site.
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
2 words - Grow Op?
type business. Now Video Professor sells a series of Tutorial Movies on CDs that show how to use a Windows software product or Windows itself or some Web Site like eBay. Like the "X of the Month Club"s the first one is free for X days and if not sent back and order is canceled new Video CDs are sent and the person's credit card is charged.
Calling it a "scam" is very strong words, and they have sued people who say that. It is a business and the terms on the TV commercials are in small print, and the EULA the user clicks on explains it is a membership in a club to purchase Video CDs for various software products.
The Average Slashdot member doesn't need Video Professor because we usually just use search engines like Google to figure out how software or web sites work. These Video Professor CDs are marketed towards the luddites and people with little to no computer skills and open up a video in Microsoft Media Player. The type of people who don't bother to read the EULA or know that it is a membership or trial offer. So you could say that Video Professor preys on the unskilled and the weak, but legally they have a legal contract with them via the EULA they click agree on via their web site or via the Phone Orders. If it is a legal agreement and legitimate business it is not necessarily a scam, it might be unethical or immoral or appear to be wrong in some way but it is still legal. It is as legal as those "Book of the Month" or "CD of the Month" businesses.
You'll actually find the Internet full of such offers and such companies. But Video Professor airs TV commercials targeted at people who don't seem to understand how a computer works much less how a trial membership works.
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Honest, I used video professor to learn to sell on Ebay and not I am making $10,000 a month and living the life I have always dreamed of. Thanks video professor!
If it isn't broke, tinker with it till it is!
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
The F/OSS community doing a Windows training video? Ahahah ....OK, wavy lines...wavy line....wavy line,,,,,
Start of video....
Enter guy with black hair, black goatee, horns, pitchfork, and dressed in red.
"Hi, I'm Satan and I'm here to teach you about my Operating System : Windows. Using this OS will automatically give your everlasting soul to me. Now to begin....."
Every other frame will be a quick frame that says:
F/OSS is the GOOD in the World. Linux is your salvation!
Please excuse the typos. For some reason my spell check on Firefox isn't working on this Fedora 12 box. ????
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
No, YOU grow op!
It is bigoted to point out that someone believes in imaginary creatures?
Would it be bigoted if I claimed people who believed in unicorns were foolish?
Since when does anyone have the right not to be offended?
This reminds me of all those High School car washes you see. They have sings that say "Free Car Wash", but then they usually have another sign sitting there saying "All Proceeds go to Couger High Cheerleaders!" and it like, uh what proceeds, it's free!
But I go anyway and "PAY" for my "Free" car wash. If only because I'll never got that close to actual boobs in my real life.
Hold on a second.... "Mom! Poop bucket!!"
Ok, I have to go. But, yeah total scam.
My ex tried this a while back without asking me.
She started trying to cancel it within two weeks.
It took over 3 months before they would actually cancel it, and that was like pulling teeth with tweezers.
She must have sent 20 emails and spent 40 hours on the phone trying to get them to cancel.
That is either Massive incompetence, or total scam.
I really don't care which, but I'd advise you to not use Video Professor.
Besides, their stuff is really basic. You'd be better off taking an introductory course at your local college, or just checking out stuff at your local library.
(Either of those options will be cheaper as well.)
Video Professor sounds like a perfectly viable product without resorting to tactics like these. Loads of people are scared of computers. Why make a bad name for yourself with scammy practices when you actually have something to sell?
Watch that Anti-Religious Bigotry. Religious people have civil rights too, you know.
Yeah, mocking/criticizing a group of people is an attack on their civil rights. Jesus, it's not like the post was advocating denying Christians the right to marry or something.
A belief in fairy tales does not constitute a protected class. An African-American never chose to have black skin nor can they change that condition. A Christian can apply a modicum of critical thinking to remedy their condition.
In any other discussion, a willful disregard for scientific evidence will be appropriately mocked here on Slashdot. So why should believing that the earth is 6000 years old be any different? And why should believing anything from a book compiled for a purpose ~1700 years ago be any more reasonable that believing the myths of other primitive societies?
I've got nothing against people that believe there is a higher power, but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible. And even then, no one would give a rats ass about that belief too if Christians didn't have a nasty habit of trying to use those spurious beliefs to shape public policy and the annoying habit of trying to spread their critical thinking deficiency virus. I can't speak for the rest of the people who make clear their disdain for Christians, but for my part, they need only stop those two habits for me to stop caring about them entirely. They can go off into their own little corner and enjoy their wacky cult. But as long as people preach their bizarre beliefs and use them to justify insane public policy, it's the duty of every rational person to denounce them.
So you are paying about 300 dollars to be taught not how to be scammed on the internet? Sounds about right to me. I doubt any of their customers fall for something like that again.
There's an alternative: Professor Wikipedia is not a scam.
I certainly see his commercials in Canada (albeit over American TV channels). I don't know anything about this law, but it's not working very well (or works only for exclusively Canadian TV stations and honestly there aren't a lot of those).
According to many accounts posted on the web, it's difficult/impossible to cancel, and it takes months to receive your $80+ refund for a returned DVD.
uh, parent is unintentionally NOT OFFTOPIC this time
For a small fee, I can help you avoid scam information overload. Think of the peace of mind, increase in your productivity and lung capacity, just by following the advice I can provide you.
insults are specifically exempt from libel suits. ass marauder
It's a TERRIBLE fucking scam.
It does detail in explicit detail everything they're doing. You have unlimited time to review the conditions. So scam? No not really. Deceptive marketing? Absolutely.
"Deals" like these have been the status quo for decades. Should they be illegal? Yes, but given current contract law, try and figure out a way to band them, win a nobel prize.
Consumers who ignore the find print deserve what they get, and get what they deserve.
And I am not a scam. The scam is the real estate branch of the business dept. Those fuckers should be in jail.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Wow! First we had the Chewbacca Defense. Now we have the Chewbacca Apologetic!
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
First of all, your ignorance is downright supernatural in itself. Very VERY few Christians believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. But since you seem to think that Christians are so ignorant, maybe you should tell the modern scientists that base their knowledge on the science that came from these guys:
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
All believed in God, many were devout Christians. Of course, that is a very partial list. Do you really think that you are smart enough to you say that these guys are unable to "can apply a modicum of critical thinking to remedy their condition." Sorry, but until modern astronomy, physics, philosophy, or even the scientific basis for temperature are based on your work, you are unqualified to criticize these guys.
(if you are to mod this off topic, it's only fair to mod the parent OT first)
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Apparently, this guy's lawyers can't take a joke (then again, no laywer can), Last year, Video Professor's legal department sent an email to Wikia, a wiki hosting company, concerning this article about John Scherer on Uncyclopedia, a satirical parody of WIkipedia. They requested removal of the article. However, the article in question and the pictures on it were used for the purposes of parody and humor and thus are likely protected under fair use. Instead of deleting the article, the community decided to take the opportunity to make fun of the lawsuit as well. The email sent to Wiki (and the associated drama) can be found here.
Clearly I am the next Johnny Cochran. :)
I used to work for lawyers, until one of them bit me. Whomever is bitten by a lawyer eventually becomes one. All I need left to do is study in law school and then graduate and pass the bar exam. :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Slashdot posted this story in 2007 about Video Professor sueing to get critical reviews off the internet.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/24/1619240
Yeah, that worked out well for them, didn't it?
This is just another reason why I use temporary credit card numbers for online purchases. They're only good for a set period of time and you set the maximum chargeable amount.
The end result is that they never actually have your credit card number.
Of course a better solution is to read the fine print, both online and on your packing slip, so you know the deal. I too had one of those 'free offers' that was really a 'free trial'. Luckily I read my packing slip which had all the details on how to cancel it. Followed the instructions, no problem. But they were also pretty up-front about it.
Any company that buries a subscription or a situation where you have to pay for things you never thought you ordered is a scam. Period. End of story. They're counting on the fact that most people won't understand or read the agreement. Trying to squash negative commentary is just more proof that they know what they're doing is wrong.
I ordered a 'free' Video Professor Access learning set about 10 years ago. The set came with 3 discs in a single package. 2 of the discs were free, but in order to keep the 3rd, the last lessons, I would have had to pay the $29.95 for the set. In other words, if you want the free part, it's only the introductory and intermediate lessons. Additionally, each disc installed several programs I would have to characterize as spyware. Not just the first, but each disc. Before they would run any lessons. So, I sent the 'free' software back. And then I got to struggle with their hands in my pocket through 3 more 'free' (unordered) sets, each of which showed up on my credit card statement before the (unordered) sets arrived. Each subsequent time I called to protest I was told to keep the discs. Of course, they were worth more as infections than as product. I finally canceled the credit card to stem the pilfering. 'Scam' is kind.
Even the typical X of the month offer is much more clear about the terms and what it will cost. They typically tell you what you'll be charged up front and tell you what you'll need to do to avoid further charges. Those further charges are a little high, but not outrageously out of line with typical retail pricing. It's not the sort of offer I care to accept, but they at least tell you what you're getting in to.
With the Video Professor, I didn't know what the deal was at all until I read the various scam warnings. I had written it off as likely having some sort of catch, but I had no idea what.
I have seen a number of reports (some in this discussion) indicating that actually getting the CD returned and getting your refund is quite difficult as well.
In any other discussion, a willful disregard for scientific evidence will be appropriately mocked here on Slashdot. So why should believing that the earth is 6000 years old be any different?
Thats a nice straw man you have there, did you make it yourself? I was under the impression that "age of the earth" had a NUMBER of different positions among christians, and that "young earth" was only one of them. But if it makes it easy for you to ridicule christians, by all means continue; it really helps your case to accuse others of being irrational in the same breath you commit logical fallacies.
And why should believing anything from a book compiled for a purpose ~1700 years ago be any more reasonable that believing the myths of other primitive societies?
And why should we believe modern neuroscience, i mean others have been wrong in that realm before right? So clearly their being wrong invalidates anything modern neuroscience can say.... Is that how your argument goes?
but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible
Ive heard that so many times, and yet the best ive seen pulled out is some claptrap about pi being 3, or willful ignorance about what metaphorical language is. (And these are the same people who will have no issue understanding "he was so hungry he could eat a cow", who then turn around and find that in the Bible, and remark on how stupid its writers must be for thinking one person could eat that much meat!)
Maybe im just a jerk but i find it really amusing when people launch into irrational attacks on others, all the while claiming that its their target that is irrational. I know its probably just as foolish for me to engage in this kind of discussion on the internet, but really I expected better from slashdot since fallacies are commonly ridiculed here.
This is the point where those gift visa cards come in handy, have just enough to cover the shipping or whatever on it and be done with it, no worries of those rediculous charges ever getting put onto your card that you can't get rid of for months on end.
At any rate you should still be wary of anything you (can) buy off of tv like this.
Why is common sense called that if it's not common?
Some things that always get forgotten and therefore create myths:
Caveat Emptor is a legal principle for real property, not for every contract that is made. In all other cases (and actually even property law has changed in some ways), in both common and statutory law caveat emptor has for a long time not been the overriding principle.
Misrepresentation and deception is always a reason that can potentially void a contract and even create a situation in which further damages might be enforceable.
If every single person being scammed would go to court in might create such a wave of "spam trials" that those scammers could not hire enough lawyers to defend themselves. That would actually be hilarious. Unfortunately far too many corporations bully consumers with unenforceable terms and conditions and intimidations. It is not illegal to create the appearance that terms and conditions are binding even if the party issuing them know about the impossibility of enforceability.
IAAL.. but I don't actively practice. As always the disclaimer: Nothing in this message constitute legal advice. If someone needs legal advice for their personal situation, they should consult a registered and licensed attorney in the relevant jurisdiction.
This should be fairly easy to figure down... Are they Google-able? They have a company?
The NDA part shouldn't be bothersome... it's par for the course; I make vendors sign 'em for certain server infrastructure additions or analysis (cf. anything that may possibly handle trade secrets, etc - even Microsoft signs one before doing their true-up audits). Besides, no NDA can prevent you from reporting illegal activity, so don't sweat it.
Otherwise, just get everything in writing (and notarized!) before agreeing to it, and make sure you get at least some of the payment up-front, at certain project milestones, etc. If it still makes you nervous, spend some cash on a lawyer to eyeball the whole thing before signing it.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
And you are a fucking moron...the Civil Rights act protects your from being discriminated against in finding shelter, a job, etc. It does NOT protect you or your religious beliefs from criticism by others. THAT right is protected in the US Constitution, under the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights in the "Free Speech" clause.
The UN's declaration of rights includes the rights of Free Speech and belief....this means you should be able to believe whatever you want without fear of oppression by your government, and I have the right to mock you for your beliefs...again without fear of oppression by my government.
You sound like the typical "poor Christians getting oppressed" whiner when the truth is you can't stand the idea that others also get to express their beliefs and opinions which include disdain for your beliefs. Go whine to the ACLJ and see how successful you are in a law suit. I'll talk to the ACLU to assist in defending my 1st Amendment rights against your claims.
"Hello, Video Professor? Hi yes, I'd like you to please send me the CD on how to setup and operate computer oriented scams please."
"What? You don't have that title? Could you please double-check? I'd swear I heard you has something like that... Yes, I'll hold thanks."
I knew about the 10 day deadline to stop the extra charges and made it in time. I also called the customer service line to inform them that I had sent in the refusal notice. But they charged me anyway. So I called them to ask what was up and they said it would be taken care of in five days. So in seven days I called them again to ask where was my refund. Once again, they said it was a mix up or a clerical error and it would be processed in five days. This process repeated over and over. Each time they apologized and said it was a clerical error and would be taken care of within five days. But it never was. It was just one lie after another. It went on for months before I finally wrote to the Denver Better Business Bureau. Only then did they actually refund the money that they had no right to take from me in the first place. John Scherer (the video professor) is as dishonest as they come. They might not be breaking the law but if you have an ounce of sense in your head, you will never do business with this crook. (I called him much worse when I was fighting to get my money back.)
Does this law only apply to negative option for which you opted in? I recall Rogers in Ontario (Canada) giving people premium channels to watch for free for a month (without asking to opt in) and then billing them unless they called in to cancel. I had some friends try to cancel for days, never being able to get through on the phone (phone line actually busy) - end result they sent "please cancel all my cable" with the bill. This was definitely less than 10 years ago.
I've got nothing against people that believe there is a higher power, but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible?
More than half of all Christians are part of the Roman Catholic Church, which does not believe in creationism or any of the other 'provably false claims' you refer to. Books such as Genesis are seen as largely symbolic, and in my experience when the RCC does attempt to influence public policy, they do so using secular arguments, even if their motivation for doing so is founded in religious beliefs (e.g. the abortion controversy).
Disclaimer: I am a member of the RCC
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
I am one of those "olds" you speak of, and I seem to be able to spot these things a mile away. But then the older I get the more cynical I get. And if I want to learn about xyz, I go to the Borders web site and see what the local store has on xyz, or I just buy the Xyz Bible from Amazon. If I want a quick video on something, I go to YouTube. You really have to go out of your way to get scammed by these characters; though, obviously, they are still unethical. I suspect the dupes involved are the same folks who put money in the collection box every week to get "saved." As old PT used to say, there's a sucker born every minute.
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
This very act is what prompted the "negative option billing" law in the first place. The dates (yours or the "10 year" estimate) are either wrong, or your friends were caught by something less generic - i.e. they had signed up for it somewhere without realizing it. But, again, Rogers also could have just pushed their luck...
you don't even have to reincorporate somewhere else to pull that scam off. The BBB makes money from businesses paying them for "accreditation" and they don't make money from consumers. Their bias is obvious.
Here in SoCal there is a construction fraud gang that seems to mostly be run by a Moroccan/Israeli family named Ben Shulsh. I tried to report their most recent front company (Erco Construction) to the BBB and they would even bother to even look at it. They publicly list the same front people, and they are at the same business address as their last front company (Highrise construction) and 2 miles from the front companies before that (BC Specialty Construction, Bashan and Allied). The BBB only changed the the rating on BC from A+ to F *after* they had robbed everybody, folded up shop and when into hiding for a few weeks. This despite complaints going back months.
I wouldn't put any stock in the BBB or its rating of anything. They are just there to collect the accreditation fees.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
Already answered the words of Jesus have done a lot to fight bigotry, and Jesus works through his followers to educate people.
Not every Christian is going to be a Fundamentalist Christian you know.
Some Civil Rights Activists are Christians, and thus Jesus works through them.
Barrack Obama is a Christian and is trying to reform civil rights and fight bigotry as Jesus did.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.