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Calling Video Professor a Scam
palmerj3 writes in to give some wider attention to a piece on Techcrunch today in which Michael Arrington reacts to Video Professor's desperate attempts to shut him up after he called Video Professor a scam in a piece syndicated by the Washington Post. As described by Arrington, the ways the company's site operates (differently depending on where a visitor comes from) are strongly reminiscent of the practices a Senate committee recently condemned. (Here is a detailed example of another, similar scam, from a not-naive victim. Video Professor's tactics sound even more deceptive.) Video Professor seems to react with belligerence, not to mention legal threats, towards any hint of criticism. Please share any direct experiences you have with this outfit.
who ends every commercial with a pleading "Try my product?"
if you ask me, a tacky name like "video professor" is more than enough evidence of a scam.
weinersmith
not only is there a *Pay up to $9.95 USD for shipping & processing and they act like the old CD music clubs.
Ordered a disk from them in 2005 as part of another promotion I think (one of those complete X deals). I never got the disk as it was improperly addressed, they dropped off my apartment number, so it was returned to sender, but I got a lovely $70 charge on my CC a month later. I called to complain and they offered to resend out the disk at first, but I finally got them to refund the charge. Ended up working out OK, but again, that was a few years ago.
Seriously, I know I could just google it but damnit slashdot, this sounds like a typical example of an editor knowing about a subject that a submission happens to be about yet most likely the average slashdot users doesn't have a clue as to what/who the fuck "Video professor" is.
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Not that the actual Video Professor teaching tool is a scam.
About two-thirds of the way down in the article:
Another scam: Video Professor. Users are offered in game currency if they sign up to receive a free learning CD from Video Professor. The user is told they pay nothing except a $10 shipping charge. But the fine print, on a different page from checkout, tells them they are really getting a whole set of CDs and will be billed $189.95 unless they return them. Most users never return them because they don't know about the extra charge. Woot. Again, sites like Offerpal and SuperRewards flow these offers through to game developers. See here for more on the Video Professor scam.
So, Video Professor is a scam, but it's a minor point in the article.
It's not a minor point in the article, it's the entire article. This is the article, the other link in the summary was just an aside...
The article really takes video professor apart. It's a total scam and there's no more doubt about it.
No its not a bad summary. The original article also mentions Video Professor as a scam below the FB/game currency scams.
You may not agree with it but TFA does call Video Professor a scam.
Not that the actual Video Professor teaching tool is a scam.
Their practices are a scam. I have no idea how useful the product is but as the problem seems to be with getting refunds
then I'd say its not worth the $190-290 you get billed for it if you cant navigate their deliberately confusing returns process.
Is that gaming market is doing a great job of trying to implode on itself. Seriously, if the way it works is the games that participate in offerbot scams are the successful ones... Well then I don't see it having a long term future. After all, there are TONS of PC games that are not that way, be they web based Flash games or retail games or whatever. There are more games than you can play in a lifetime out there that aren't like this. If this is what the gaming scene on Facebook is, my guess is that it'll implode and disappear in a couple years.
When I complained, they gave me a free credit report from their partners at freecreditreport.com. I don't know what this guy is complaining about.
Or you can read the first article linked, which goes into great detail about video professor.
Perhaps you should RTEntireFA?
Yes, the idiot is known to do bad business. Sadly if we start shutting down corrupt businesses we will shut down the American economy. We might have to shut down most state governments as well.
well according to this
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/28/video-professor-washington-post-scamville/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)
(link is in the summary)
Essentially it appears your getting a couple of free CD's and paying a few dollars for shipping. In reality you get sent a bunch of stuff and billed $289.95 (they have your credit card details from the 4 dollar shipping charge) In theory there is a get out clause return one of the lessons within 10 days then you don't get billed but apparently thats not so easy to do.
Is it a scam? Well if you didn't intend to purchase $289.95 worth of cd's I'd say yes, because there is some text on the front page which says they will bill you $289.95 and its also hidden away in a bunch of small print they say no.
The order summary only mentions $4.56 shipping charges for 3 cd's
They target the gullible, computer novices who don't realize they are giving away access to their credit card.
Probably the only defense against this kind of abuse are one time credit cards but even then your credit score could take a bashing.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
They do; they have the right to make bigoted comments about atheists, right back at them.
I tried out the Photoshop package. It actually has a lot of info and tutorials in there. However, from watching and reading ads, it seemed that it would be a reasonable price. I wasn't notified of the nearly $200 charge for it. I called theem and told them it was a rip-off and false advertising. They gave me my money back AND let me keep the course. That really surprised me.
I'm actually in the middle of trying to figure out if an offer I recently received is genuine. I've not been asked to send out money, just use my brain and solve a problem involving lighting. Couple of guys from the UK and AUS found some postings of mine on a horticultural website, sent me an e-mail about a week ago, and now I've got all sorts of documents and photographs of the stuff they're wanting to do but need an acting lighting engineer for.
I've had e-mail, I've had phone conversations. I'm asking for a face-to-face now. I'd find it hard to believe that scammers would spend so much money, especially when there are far easier fish to catch. Flying from both AUS and UK would be rather expensive, I'd imagine, and well outside of a typical scammer's pocket potential. I also find it hard to believe that any scammer would send me so much valuable information, either. Unfinished facilities, experimental setups, etc.
Of course, this could be a pretty ballsy high-level scam. But then the guys say they've got an NDA for me to sign for the face-to-face with them and a contract manager.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
His appeal is that he makes a complicated machine, a computer, seem easy to use and he'll make it easy for you. I actually have talked a couple of people who have done business with these folks (I'd elaborate but Slashdot has a problem with anonymous proxies - yeah, like posting as an AC cuts it). They are high school graduates at best, very intimidated by computers, and many times, they have to use a computer at work and they're scared of losing their jobs over it or they're older people who want to keep in touch with kids and grandkids over the internet. Keep in mind that not everyone out there is as comfortable with computers as we are.
As aside note, I woner if this was there when the lournalists looked at the site..
After your 10-day free trial, if you decide to keep the complete set, we'll conveniently bill your credit card just $289.95.
- this is on the fron page of his site.
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
type business. Now Video Professor sells a series of Tutorial Movies on CDs that show how to use a Windows software product or Windows itself or some Web Site like eBay. Like the "X of the Month Club"s the first one is free for X days and if not sent back and order is canceled new Video CDs are sent and the person's credit card is charged.
Calling it a "scam" is very strong words, and they have sued people who say that. It is a business and the terms on the TV commercials are in small print, and the EULA the user clicks on explains it is a membership in a club to purchase Video CDs for various software products.
The Average Slashdot member doesn't need Video Professor because we usually just use search engines like Google to figure out how software or web sites work. These Video Professor CDs are marketed towards the luddites and people with little to no computer skills and open up a video in Microsoft Media Player. The type of people who don't bother to read the EULA or know that it is a membership or trial offer. So you could say that Video Professor preys on the unskilled and the weak, but legally they have a legal contract with them via the EULA they click agree on via their web site or via the Phone Orders. If it is a legal agreement and legitimate business it is not necessarily a scam, it might be unethical or immoral or appear to be wrong in some way but it is still legal. It is as legal as those "Book of the Month" or "CD of the Month" businesses.
You'll actually find the Internet full of such offers and such companies. But Video Professor airs TV commercials targeted at people who don't seem to understand how a computer works much less how a trial membership works.
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
It may or may not be legal, but even if it is, it's still a scam. We all know a scam when we see it, and sometimes they happen to be legal.
Honest, I used video professor to learn to sell on Ebay and not I am making $10,000 a month and living the life I have always dreamed of. Thanks video professor!
If it isn't broke, tinker with it till it is!
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming to engage and or challenge the Video Professor company, and provide free alternatives that people on Slashdot and other technical web sites can refer to our friends and relatives who might get taken in via Video Professor, and instead we can redirect them to the FOSS web site of software tutorial videos or download them and burn our own FOSS Software Professor CD-R disks and give them to them for free.
The F/OSS community doing a Windows training video? Ahahah ....OK, wavy lines...wavy line....wavy line,,,,,
Start of video....
Enter guy with black hair, black goatee, horns, pitchfork, and dressed in red.
"Hi, I'm Satan and I'm here to teach you about my Operating System : Windows. Using this OS will automatically give your everlasting soul to me. Now to begin....."
Every other frame will be a quick frame that says:
F/OSS is the GOOD in the World. Linux is your salvation!
Please excuse the typos. For some reason my spell check on Firefox isn't working on this Fedora 12 box. ????
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
TechCrunch is so cutting edge. . . Wait, didn't we already go through this whole "Video Professor guy is a scam and here's the scammy behavior and the feds are investigating" thing months ago? Maybe even a couple years ago? Hell, I seem to recall seeing something on that G4TV show about it a year or two ago.
I mean, really, "Video Professor is a scam!" ranks up there in terms of widely-spread knowledge among generally everybody as "blue hippo is a scam". Or even more like "those letters that come in the mail and ask you to send a dollar to the sender and then send your own letter to six new people is a scam".
What's next -- I shouldn't give my banking information and social security number and passwords to people who randomly call me up and ask for them, claiming to be in a position of authority within the institution? *GASP*
It is bigoted to point out that someone believes in imaginary creatures?
Would it be bigoted if I claimed people who believed in unicorns were foolish?
Since when does anyone have the right not to be offended?
Excuse me? All he implied was (jokingly) that Christians don't make much sense. And you are not making sense here with your defensive comments either, blowing a funny comment out of proportion.
Free electronic music for you!
"even Atheists". How very nice of you. This is a tech site. We make fun of "lo(o)sers" who use Windows. To call a minor dig at a religion a violation of civil rights is perhaps over reacting. Religion should not be given a free pass just because it is religion. If you truly believe that christianity makes more sense than the badly written summary then I am deeply sorry.
This reminds me of all those High School car washes you see. They have sings that say "Free Car Wash", but then they usually have another sign sitting there saying "All Proceeds go to Couger High Cheerleaders!" and it like, uh what proceeds, it's free!
But I go anyway and "PAY" for my "Free" car wash. If only because I'll never got that close to actual boobs in my real life.
Hold on a second.... "Mom! Poop bucket!!"
Ok, I have to go. But, yeah total scam.
My ex tried this a while back without asking me.
She started trying to cancel it within two weeks.
It took over 3 months before they would actually cancel it, and that was like pulling teeth with tweezers.
She must have sent 20 emails and spent 40 hours on the phone trying to get them to cancel.
That is either Massive incompetence, or total scam.
I really don't care which, but I'd advise you to not use Video Professor.
Besides, their stuff is really basic. You'd be better off taking an introductory course at your local college, or just checking out stuff at your local library.
(Either of those options will be cheaper as well.)
Video Professor sounds like a perfectly viable product without resorting to tactics like these. Loads of people are scared of computers. Why make a bad name for yourself with scammy practices when you actually have something to sell?
NoYob quoted text from www.videoprofessor.com and wrote "this is on the front page of his site". Apparently one of the tricks of the trade is to vary the nature and composition of the landing page, depending on how you got there (referrer) and/or by geolocation of your IP address. If this is the case, we can't reliably tell somebody what they'll see on the front page of the site, can we?
Watch that Anti-Religious Bigotry. Religious people have civil rights too, you know.
Yeah, mocking/criticizing a group of people is an attack on their civil rights. Jesus, it's not like the post was advocating denying Christians the right to marry or something.
A belief in fairy tales does not constitute a protected class. An African-American never chose to have black skin nor can they change that condition. A Christian can apply a modicum of critical thinking to remedy their condition.
In any other discussion, a willful disregard for scientific evidence will be appropriately mocked here on Slashdot. So why should believing that the earth is 6000 years old be any different? And why should believing anything from a book compiled for a purpose ~1700 years ago be any more reasonable that believing the myths of other primitive societies?
I've got nothing against people that believe there is a higher power, but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible. And even then, no one would give a rats ass about that belief too if Christians didn't have a nasty habit of trying to use those spurious beliefs to shape public policy and the annoying habit of trying to spread their critical thinking deficiency virus. I can't speak for the rest of the people who make clear their disdain for Christians, but for my part, they need only stop those two habits for me to stop caring about them entirely. They can go off into their own little corner and enjoy their wacky cult. But as long as people preach their bizarre beliefs and use them to justify insane public policy, it's the duty of every rational person to denounce them.
So you are paying about 300 dollars to be taught not how to be scammed on the internet? Sounds about right to me. I doubt any of their customers fall for something like that again.
There's an alternative: Professor Wikipedia is not a scam.
An African-American never chose to have black skin nor can they change that condition.
A subtle point here, as I have made this faux pas as well, the above statement can be read to say that they should want to change their skin pigmentation given the option.
According to many accounts posted on the web, it's difficult/impossible to cancel, and it takes months to receive your $80+ refund for a returned DVD.
amen
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
uh, parent is unintentionally NOT OFFTOPIC this time
For a small fee, I can help you avoid scam information overload. Think of the peace of mind, increase in your productivity and lung capacity, just by following the advice I can provide you.
| They target the gullible, computer novices who don't realize they are giving away access to their credit card.
I agree. I always got the impression the Video Professor's head would explode if he ever wrote a line of javascript.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
insults are specifically exempt from libel suits. ass marauder
He works for Claria
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
From one of the related articles:
""I personally do not believe that you can be anonymous and bash people and get away with it under the First Amendment," he said. "I will stay with this case, and I will get the names that I am requesting. I will pursue this until the Supreme Court tells me I can't get them."" -John Scherer, President & CEO of Video Professor.
-Sounds like another Bill Gates in the making.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
It's a TERRIBLE fucking scam.
It does detail in explicit detail everything they're doing. You have unlimited time to review the conditions. So scam? No not really. Deceptive marketing? Absolutely.
"Deals" like these have been the status quo for decades. Should they be illegal? Yes, but given current contract law, try and figure out a way to band them, win a nobel prize.
Consumers who ignore the find print deserve what they get, and get what they deserve.
Actually I am standing up for equal rights, and asserting myself to confront bigotry in any way, shape, or form. The same way that Jesus does. That takes courage, not cowardliness. Cowardliness is making bigoted statements on an anonymous form and not taking responsibility for them, or refusing to stand up to a bully who is doing emotional and mental abuse on a group of people via personal attacks.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
And I am not a scam. The scam is the real estate branch of the business dept. Those fuckers should be in jail.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
s/band/ban/
I believe Video Professor has a cd on avoiding scams... like this one... it plays just like a vcr... but on your computer.
In any event, I'm fairly certain I would have been burned by the scammers ages ago if I didn't sign up for the free Video Professor Avoiding Scams disc. Now if I could just stop getting billed for this crud.
I wonder if they make a cd to solve your VP billing issues...
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Wow! First we had the Chewbacca Defense. Now we have the Chewbacca Apologetic!
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
First of all, your ignorance is downright supernatural in itself. Very VERY few Christians believe that the Earth is 6000 years old. But since you seem to think that Christians are so ignorant, maybe you should tell the modern scientists that base their knowledge on the science that came from these guys:
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
All believed in God, many were devout Christians. Of course, that is a very partial list. Do you really think that you are smart enough to you say that these guys are unable to "can apply a modicum of critical thinking to remedy their condition." Sorry, but until modern astronomy, physics, philosophy, or even the scientific basis for temperature are based on your work, you are unqualified to criticize these guys.
(if you are to mod this off topic, it's only fair to mod the parent OT first)
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Apparently, this guy's lawyers can't take a joke (then again, no laywer can), Last year, Video Professor's legal department sent an email to Wikia, a wiki hosting company, concerning this article about John Scherer on Uncyclopedia, a satirical parody of WIkipedia. They requested removal of the article. However, the article in question and the pictures on it were used for the purposes of parody and humor and thus are likely protected under fair use. Instead of deleting the article, the community decided to take the opportunity to make fun of the lawsuit as well. The email sent to Wiki (and the associated drama) can be found here.
For a small fee, I can help you avoid being billed for crud.
Clearly I am the next Johnny Cochran. :)
I used to work for lawyers, until one of them bit me. Whomever is bitten by a lawyer eventually becomes one. All I need left to do is study in law school and then graduate and pass the bar exam. :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I didn't say people shouldn't be able to express their opinions regarding religions. I only said when such opinions are bigoted they violate civil rights and human rights and become personal attacks, thus logical fallacies.
While I don't agree with your statements I defend your right to say them. But I do hold you accountable for them legally as I would anyone else. You don't yet seem to grasp the concept of responsibly, tolerance, restraint, forgiveness, etc and appeal from some sense of ignorance within your own mind.
Which Jesus are you talking about? I was talking about Jesus the civil rights activist, a friend of mine. :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Slashdot posted this story in 2007 about Video Professor sueing to get critical reviews off the internet.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/24/1619240
Yeah, that worked out well for them, didn't it?
Just jivin' you a bit. You're post makes a great deal of sense, but it's Saturday, so I figured "what the hell"
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And yet, people still do exactly that.
Further, the newest scam is companies who, for a fee, will protect you from getting hit with such a scam.
The CEO gives out his social security number in the commercial. I noticed that the wording of their "million dollar" guarantee has recently changed. It used to be "If your identity is stolen, we will pay you a million dollars" and now it's "If you lose any money from getting your identity stolen as a result of something we did we will pay you up to a million dollars". Oh, and "million dollar guarantee not available in Florida, Michigan, New York, Illinois, Ohio, California or any of the continental United States, or anywhere else".
A good rule of thumb is, if you saw it in an advertisement, it's a scam. If you hear it, face to face, from someone you know and who shares the same bloodline as you, there's probably a 50% chance it's a scam. If your Mom tells you the neighbor lady tried it and now she's driving a brand new car and quit her job and the checks are just rolling in, shoot your mother immediately.
Yes, that's a good rule of thumb.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Funny I got attacked by the person who posted the parent post and a few others here using Anonymous Coward that I am not making any sense at all, and not being clear.
It is good to meet yet another person who uses critical thinking, common sense, and logic and understands the issues at hand here. Thank you for that.
By the way I was joking all the long, this entire thread, in order to win "The Comedian" tag on Slashdot, but it got out of hand. I went to Slashdot, countered humor with humor, and a legal defense and well reasoned debate broke out? :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
This is just another reason why I use temporary credit card numbers for online purchases. They're only good for a set period of time and you set the maximum chargeable amount.
The end result is that they never actually have your credit card number.
Of course a better solution is to read the fine print, both online and on your packing slip, so you know the deal. I too had one of those 'free offers' that was really a 'free trial'. Luckily I read my packing slip which had all the details on how to cancel it. Followed the instructions, no problem. But they were also pretty up-front about it.
Any company that buries a subscription or a situation where you have to pay for things you never thought you ordered is a scam. Period. End of story. They're counting on the fact that most people won't understand or read the agreement. Trying to squash negative commentary is just more proof that they know what they're doing is wrong.
"It isn't a bigoted comment. It isn't directed at a specific person."
It is a bigoted comment. It is directed at a specific group.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Yeah you'd like to think so, but you are wrong.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I ordered a 'free' Video Professor Access learning set about 10 years ago. The set came with 3 discs in a single package. 2 of the discs were free, but in order to keep the 3rd, the last lessons, I would have had to pay the $29.95 for the set. In other words, if you want the free part, it's only the introductory and intermediate lessons. Additionally, each disc installed several programs I would have to characterize as spyware. Not just the first, but each disc. Before they would run any lessons. So, I sent the 'free' software back. And then I got to struggle with their hands in my pocket through 3 more 'free' (unordered) sets, each of which showed up on my credit card statement before the (unordered) sets arrived. Each subsequent time I called to protest I was told to keep the discs. Of course, they were worth more as infections than as product. I finally canceled the credit card to stem the pilfering. 'Scam' is kind.
I'm not sure that's a valid criticism, because the same observation (skin color can't be changed) could be made about ANY skin color. If it's universally true for all races, it's not racist against a particular race.
Yeah you'd like to think so, but you are wrong.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
It is a bigoted comment because it uses the stereotype that Christians aren't clear.
Your second point was invalid, false analogy, a logical fallacy.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Making bigoted comments about Christians or Atheists is a violation of the civil rights of the USA, and the human rights of the UN, and International Rights as well.
It's NOT a violation of civil rights in the USA, and I frankly couldn't give a damn about the UN or international rights... they tend to have far weaker protections for free speech than the US has.
Sue somebody for making a bigoted comment about Christians or Atheists, and see how far you get. Unless somebody is actively campaigning for violence against a specific christian, you'll be laughed out of court.
The Christian Jesus:
Love for People Vs Self-righteousness worked through Wesley D. King to write that article, and thus confront bigotry, etc.
Wrong again, ILJOT, you might want to change your handle to something more appropriate.
I'd continue on, but my Lawyer Gonzo says we have enough material for a civil suit against you and will file a subpoena for Slashdot to release your account information and IP address.
Have a nice day.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I hereby challenge the free and open source community to make a serials of software tutorials for various Windows operating systems, Windows software, web sites, etc and provide those videos free via downloads or web site streaming
I'm not so sure that'd be practical. How easy is it for "the free and open source community" to afford to advertise the availability of the free tutorial distributions on national television?
Besides, their stuff is really basic. You'd be better off taking an introductory course at your local college, or just checking out stuff at your local library.
But someone in each county still needs to spend the $300 on the Video Professor box set in order to donate it to the library in the first place.
Snake oil salesman still sell snake oil.
In any other discussion, a willful disregard for scientific evidence will be appropriately mocked here on Slashdot. So why should believing that the earth is 6000 years old be any different?
Thats a nice straw man you have there, did you make it yourself? I was under the impression that "age of the earth" had a NUMBER of different positions among christians, and that "young earth" was only one of them. But if it makes it easy for you to ridicule christians, by all means continue; it really helps your case to accuse others of being irrational in the same breath you commit logical fallacies.
And why should believing anything from a book compiled for a purpose ~1700 years ago be any more reasonable that believing the myths of other primitive societies?
And why should we believe modern neuroscience, i mean others have been wrong in that realm before right? So clearly their being wrong invalidates anything modern neuroscience can say.... Is that how your argument goes?
but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible
Ive heard that so many times, and yet the best ive seen pulled out is some claptrap about pi being 3, or willful ignorance about what metaphorical language is. (And these are the same people who will have no issue understanding "he was so hungry he could eat a cow", who then turn around and find that in the Bible, and remark on how stupid its writers must be for thinking one person could eat that much meat!)
Maybe im just a jerk but i find it really amusing when people launch into irrational attacks on others, all the while claiming that its their target that is irrational. I know its probably just as foolish for me to engage in this kind of discussion on the internet, but really I expected better from slashdot since fallacies are commonly ridiculed here.
Some things that always get forgotten and therefore create myths:
Caveat Emptor is a legal principle for real property, not for every contract that is made. In all other cases (and actually even property law has changed in some ways), in both common and statutory law caveat emptor has for a long time not been the overriding principle.
Misrepresentation and deception is always a reason that can potentially void a contract and even create a situation in which further damages might be enforceable.
If every single person being scammed would go to court in might create such a wave of "spam trials" that those scammers could not hire enough lawyers to defend themselves. That would actually be hilarious. Unfortunately far too many corporations bully consumers with unenforceable terms and conditions and intimidations. It is not illegal to create the appearance that terms and conditions are binding even if the party issuing them know about the impossibility of enforceability.
IAAL.. but I don't actively practice. As always the disclaimer: Nothing in this message constitute legal advice. If someone needs legal advice for their personal situation, they should consult a registered and licensed attorney in the relevant jurisdiction.
A good rule of thumb is, if you saw it in an advertisement, it's a scam.
That's a terrible rule of thumb. Here's a better one: "ALWAYS get it in writing." And I mean save the #@$ing text locally. Write it to a CD-R or print it out if you can. (Why? 'cause the changestamp won't get updated.)
And if the other party tries to dick around with what you have in writing, be willing to go to court.
I doubt seriously if there are any users of the product here on /. That's like offering driver's ed. to NASCAR drivers.
Nitewing '98
Everything works...in theory.
Did you read your own link? It was NOT a Libel lawsuit, and was very specifically against a teacher (as a representative of the government, not as an individual) and was for a specific comment that was ruled as violating the 1st Amendment (specifically the Establishment clause) rights of the student. And the judge also ruled that a similar comment did NOT violate the 1st Amendment as it was connected to the subject the teacher taught (History).
So in summary....I believe you are a fucking moron. (no libel risk...opinion is always protected for an individual), and the person you responded to is NOT proven wrong by your link as your link has nothing to do with insults per se but with the actions of a government official (a school teacher in this case) being hostile to religion with no secular reason for the comment.
And you are a fucking moron...the Civil Rights act protects your from being discriminated against in finding shelter, a job, etc. It does NOT protect you or your religious beliefs from criticism by others. THAT right is protected in the US Constitution, under the 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights in the "Free Speech" clause.
The UN's declaration of rights includes the rights of Free Speech and belief....this means you should be able to believe whatever you want without fear of oppression by your government, and I have the right to mock you for your beliefs...again without fear of oppression by my government.
You sound like the typical "poor Christians getting oppressed" whiner when the truth is you can't stand the idea that others also get to express their beliefs and opinions which include disdain for your beliefs. Go whine to the ACLJ and see how successful you are in a law suit. I'll talk to the ACLU to assist in defending my 1st Amendment rights against your claims.
Again, you make claims that are completely false.....making bigoted comments is protected by BOTH items you bring up. SPEECH is a freedom we each have. Any ACTION taken that DEPRIVES you of a right is a violation. My speech ridiculing ANYONE or ANY religious or non-religious belief is PROTECTED and RIGHT under both the US Constitution and the UN Human Rights charters, etc.
It appears you read something and think you know what it means and then spout off about it. Sorry, dude....I've worked in this area of the law for the past 15 years. The worst case scenario would require the speech to be made in a workplace and then the management has a duty to address anything that impacts the work environment. Outside of work, however.....it is fair game.
A belief in fairy tales does not constitute a protected class.
Unless, of course, you're in California, and your fairy tale is calling your homosexual relationship a marriage.
I can understand how immutable characteristics constitute a protected class, but why religion? Why sexuality? I can legally be fired for having the "wrong" political views, but not for the "wrong" religious views?
While I'm not one to argue for religious discrimination, the simple fact of the matter is that I can change my religious disposition. A homosexual can choose not to commit sodomy just as easily as a heterosexual can choose to refrain from adultery. Yet, legally, both religion and sexual orientation are afforded some kind of unquestionable, sacrosanct status? (Though the latter more than the former as of late...)
And honestly, you're still bringing up the 6000 year-old-earth canard?! Even though the overwhelming majority of believers don't believe it? Even though it was never formally accepted as doctrine by the Church? I do believe I could find a flat-Earther with a greater understanding of modern physics than you have of all religions combined.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
How is using the threat of lawsuits not just as evil as CoS threatening anyone who writes about Xenu? Free speech + a $500 an hour lawyer does not equal free speech. Never heard of a concept called "chilling effect"? Allow me to read the first line of the first definition "Chilling efect, also known as libel chill is a situation where speech or conduct is suppressed by fear of penalization at the interests of an individual or group.
Now tell me how is this not EXACTLY what you are advocating hmmm? While I frankly could not care less what a person's beliefs are (and for the record I am atheist) I would NEVER use the court as a weapon of suppression, even as a joke. The courts have been used to many times for EXACTLY this purpose and you know what? It really isn't a laughing matter. If you want to believe in a sky bully, or even make fun of those that don't, please go right ahead. But even advocating taking someone's right to speak against such a belief with threat of bankrupting court action is truly disgusting behavior.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Unfortunately, the TechCrunch article and this entire discussion only deals with the online aspects of ordering from Video Professor. Many computer novices will be ordering from a toll-free number, as advertised on TV. How much is disclosed to those customers?
I knew about the 10 day deadline to stop the extra charges and made it in time. I also called the customer service line to inform them that I had sent in the refusal notice. But they charged me anyway. So I called them to ask what was up and they said it would be taken care of in five days. So in seven days I called them again to ask where was my refund. Once again, they said it was a mix up or a clerical error and it would be processed in five days. This process repeated over and over. Each time they apologized and said it was a clerical error and would be taken care of within five days. But it never was. It was just one lie after another. It went on for months before I finally wrote to the Denver Better Business Bureau. Only then did they actually refund the money that they had no right to take from me in the first place. John Scherer (the video professor) is as dishonest as they come. They might not be breaking the law but if you have an ounce of sense in your head, you will never do business with this crook. (I called him much worse when I was fighting to get my money back.)
...can share his cell with the Blue Hippo
I've got nothing against people that believe there is a higher power, but you won't find a lot of Christians that believe just that without believing in all the provably false claims in the Bible?
More than half of all Christians are part of the Roman Catholic Church, which does not believe in creationism or any of the other 'provably false claims' you refer to. Books such as Genesis are seen as largely symbolic, and in my experience when the RCC does attempt to influence public policy, they do so using secular arguments, even if their motivation for doing so is founded in religious beliefs (e.g. the abortion controversy).
Disclaimer: I am a member of the RCC
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
See, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzyte
Computer aided learning has many excellent products. This guy, once upon a time 20 years ago, would sell video tapes of the functions and use of current OSs and applications designed to take the computer illiterate to the barely computer literate.
He has made millions - legitimately, and now he seeks to take advantage of the Bushies having put all Consumer Protection on hold, including the CPSC that just admitted they were not following cribs that strangle children, so he can put a long-term drain on your debit/credit/ACH account.
In a just world, he would be front-line fodder on some peak in one of Bush's wars of opportunity. He's taking money away from the people that is needed to bail out the banks.
Sorry, no can do on ignoring that. Posters on Slashdot who ignore their typos deserve what they get, and get what they deserve.
I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
I tried the Access series to see what their CBT was like and to see if I could recommend the product to others. I thought the actual product was okay. If they cut the price by a factor of 10 and stopped the deceptive crap I think they might have something.
PBS recently did a Frontline documentary on the same types of charges and fees used to trick credit and debit card users: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/creditcards/
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Nice try, brainless, but while the CRA might grant protection on the base of religion, those protections do NOT include "the right to be protected from having mean words said about one."
Well, "her" book was ghostwritten by Lynn Vincent, that's kinda like the book world's equivalent of lip-syncing.
Suppose it's a good thing for her, so she doesn't lose too much street cred with that subset of her fans who think it's awfully elite to be readin' and writin'.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Typical subscription product pitch:
Try our product. If you don't like it, CANCEL ANYTIME.
Video Professor pitch:
Try our product. You'll like it so much that YOU WILL ORDER MORE.
I've seen the VP ads for years. I had no idea it was a subscription service.
Or, let me Google that for you. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=professor+video
Google this :-P
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
you don't even have to reincorporate somewhere else to pull that scam off. The BBB makes money from businesses paying them for "accreditation" and they don't make money from consumers. Their bias is obvious.
Here in SoCal there is a construction fraud gang that seems to mostly be run by a Moroccan/Israeli family named Ben Shulsh. I tried to report their most recent front company (Erco Construction) to the BBB and they would even bother to even look at it. They publicly list the same front people, and they are at the same business address as their last front company (Highrise construction) and 2 miles from the front companies before that (BC Specialty Construction, Bashan and Allied). The BBB only changed the the rating on BC from A+ to F *after* they had robbed everybody, folded up shop and when into hiding for a few weeks. This despite complaints going back months.
I wouldn't put any stock in the BBB or its rating of anything. They are just there to collect the accreditation fees.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
I agree. And they are hell to work with. It took me about 3 months of constantly nagging them to get them to work with me at all. I am very anti video prof!!!!
Already answered the words of Jesus have done a lot to fight bigotry, and Jesus works through his followers to educate people.
Not every Christian is going to be a Fundamentalist Christian you know.
Some Civil Rights Activists are Christians, and thus Jesus works through them.
Barrack Obama is a Christian and is trying to reform civil rights and fight bigotry as Jesus did.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Probably the only defense against this kind of abuse are one time credit cards but even then your credit score could take a bashing.
Video Professor and others are wise to the one-time use credit cards (e.g. the prepaid "Vanilla Visa" or Amexes you can get at drugstores) and simply reject them outright nowadays. I suspect that the credit cards which let you generate one-time use codes would work, but I've also heard various reports on SlickDeals about multiple charges successfully posting to such numbers which are supposed to be one-time use only.
A few years ago, there was a bubble of freeipod-type ponzi schemes which were backed by "trial" offers from Video Professor and others. Pretty much the only way you could be sure you wouldn't be stuck with enormous charges was by using a fake name, fake address, and prepaid gift card for all transactions. Don't ask me how I know this.
http://cltracker.net -- powerful craigslist multi-city search
Racial bigotry and religion stem from the same thing: blatant and unapologetic ignorance. As such racism and religion are equally offensive and to be mocked mercilessly.
Racial bigotry and persecution of XYZ religion stem from the same thing: blatant and unapologetic intolerance. You may be a perfectly logical asshole, but you are still an asshole.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
After knowing how the Columbia record club has operated for the last 50 years, I don't know why this "scam" isn't obvious. I knew the first time I saw one of his commercials that you were going to keep receiving these discs. WHY? Simple common sense. ANY place that offers a variety of products that they advertise in one commercial is going to try to get you to buy them on a monthly basis. Like I said, it's just common sense... something that more and more people seem to be lacking these days.
Good luck with your libel suit, I have no assets in my name.....
Just go right ahead and waste your money, I need the laughs.
"file a subpoena for Slashdot to release your account information and IP address."
You are a pea brained spotty arsed pig ignorant tosser if you are christian.
So go ahead and sue me, it will be fun fun fun!
And why should we believe modern neuroscience, i mean others have been wrong in that realm before right? So clearly their being wrong invalidates anything modern neuroscience can say.... Is that how your argument goes?
Why is this comment not being moderated as the troll that it is?
Property is theft.
I had a similar incident with "The Ladder". I signed up for their free one month trial. As soon as the month was coming to an end, I noticed that their "cancel service" button was "not working". I quickly canceled my credit card, only to be charged anyway. I had to fight to get this charge removed. My credit card did not just cide with me. They instructed me to "work this out with the merchant". Finally, after much haggeling and telephone calls, I got them to stop charging me.
In the end, this free service cost me lost of time and aggrevation. As they say, there is not such thing as a free lunch!
I requested the "free" Windows* CDs for my grandmother shortly after she got her first computer. Because neither of us knew about the charge in the event the third CD wasn't returned, I was charged not only for that CD, but for the next two shipments of CDs delivered to her even after she called to cancel.
An expensive mistake. I never got that money back.
* I originally set her up with Fedora/GNOME, but she was completely lost. After I set her up with Windows, she was able to get around relatively easily.
Have you driven a fnord... lately?
You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.
You obviously didn't read the article it was in Europe not the USA so First Amendment is not covered by it unless the EU adopted the US Constitution.
Secondly the teacher made an opinion about a student's religion and work, and was held accountable for it. Libel or not, there are other laws that one can be held under like taking away someone's freedom of religion or violating their freedom of religious expression, or a hate crime.
This comment backs me up and shows your logical fallacies and inability to follow logic and reason. You really aren't making sense and have to resort to personal attacks and other logical fallacies to make your point.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
It is called "The Holy Spirit" you insensitive clod.
But proof is that Wesley King did use the words of Jesus Christ to make his case against bigotry. That counts for something, unless you want to prove that Jesus didn't say those words.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
You do realize I was joking about this whole thread?
Some of the comments even got moderated as "funny".
It was all to prove how silly the Video Professor case was. I took the ILovejesusontoast's unfunny comment and made a whole funny thread based around it. Then ended with a threat of a civil suit. This is an "Andy Kaufman" type happening, and I even had a few of my friends chime in for the pro and cons of this thread.
So you all have been had by an Internet Song and Dance man with Dada comedy. :)
Oh yeah nice to see the anti-relious side couldn't stick to logic and reason or even critical thinking and had to resort to insults, personal attacks, and other logical fallacies. Thanks for that people, it really made me laugh. :)
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Whoooosh!
Really? In the case you quoted, the city was in a no win position. Promote only Whites and the minorities file suit. Cancel the promotion and the Whites file suit. The latter appeared to be the safer of the two options for the city. No promotions would be overturned by a court or no additional promotions would need to be given if ordered by the court. IN this case, the court decided NOT the city council.
And without seeing what the promotion criteria used by the fire department was, it is hard to say that sloth was the reason non-Whites did nto make the promotion list. I have seen plenty of test given out that were rigged to assist one group over another. If the requirements included extra points for being fluent in more than one language, many USians would fail, but 1st generation USaians(whose parents are immigrants) would likely rise to the top. But is that requirement really needed to fight fires? And so on...
Civil rights protect everyone...as born out by the very case you cite! The courts determined those who made the promotion list should be promoted and to not do so would be a violation of their civil rights. If the court had ruled the other way, then you might have a point.