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Microsoft To Switch Focus To Windows 8 In July 2010
An anonymous reader noted a bit from Ars saying Microsoft will be switching internal focus from Windows 7 to Windows 8 in fiscal year 2010. Microsoft's fiscal year starts in July, which is only eight months away. According to Microsoft's roadmaps, the release of Windows 8 is scheduled for 2012."
The Ocho!
2012 OMG.... Always kinda knew it would be Microsoft to end the world...
Where can I pre-order?
Do they do collectors edition?
Hey, I heard that Ubuntu going to be switching focus to 10.x next year as well! STOP TEH PRESSES!!!1!
Do we actually have anything to talk about regarding Windows 8, or is this just another thread where we trot out all the usual "ZOMG evil Micro$oft abandonware bloated faked figures blah blah blah"? Because that's getting kind of old.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
... of a larger bank account.
They seem to just want to crank out a new OS as soon as they can leaving users to suffer with the results. Take some time, and build in some value and strength to the OS before moving onto the next one.
"Voices In My Head" The Unauthorized Biography
Yeah - you were thinking it.
...at least they got that clue from FOSS. Now if they could understand the added value of peer review. Many eyeballs wouldn't be too many for spotting bugs in Windows, now would they?
FY 2010 started in July 2009
Most large corporations have 3-year PC replacement cycle, and get pissed when the new thing is the same as the old thing except for the hardware.
I feel like I have been spoiled by the solid 6 years of time XP was on the market. I literally remember using XP in 8th grade and running it well up to my sophomore year of college. That is a HUGE amount of time. Microsoft can make huge gains by keeping the price of upgrades cheap. Cheap meaning 30-50$. They will have a happy pirate free user if they did that.
Film at 11
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
I would love to see Windows adopt an Apple-like schedule of smaller, cheaper updates released on an approximately eighteen month schedule. Of course, corporate customers demand long-term stability. But perhaps every other release could be eligible for long-term support, with an interim consumer version. Back in the 1990s, Windows 9x received a feature upgrade on an approximately yearly basis. (95, 95b, 95c, 98, 98SE) There were not huge five year gaps in which everything stagnated.
There does not seem to be much question about Microsoft's continued intention to rev Windows on a three year cycle. During his PDC talk, Mark Russinovich mentioned both the intention and also the thought that Microsoft has become more organized at achieving it. But the thought that people who write job postings acutally have particularly good insight into Microsoft's intentions, is suspect. The keynotes and talks from the PDC are probably a much better source for anyone who wants to understand Microsoft's plans. They are all freely available online in high quality videos for anyone who wants to watch any of them. No doubt Microsoft hopes there will be some significance to the next version of Windows.
But that release is very unlikely to be anywhere near the most significant Microsoft activity over the next few years. Based on watching a few of the PDC videos, here are a few of my impressions about what some of the more important ones are. There appears to have been a fairly substantial internal realignment that moved the Oslo group (Don Box, Chris Anderson, Doug Purdy, and Chris Sells) into the Sql Server organization. That activity appears focused on the Entity Data Model, achieving industry consensus on core data models for important data domains, and REST based communication protocols and activity processes. Part of the alignment extends to the security work including Windows Identity Foundation and the effort to center future work on security around an Oslo based model of identity. Yet another part of it is Microsoft's focus on its REST and Atom based protocol Open Data Services.
All of this along with Azure will feed into Microsoft's effort to move forward towards a computing environment where computing services are accessed by address in the cloud with no concern about what software operating system they are running on or where the physical machine they are using is located.
Blue Screen of Doomsday.
Is it going to be like the Star Trek movies, where whether it sucks or not depends on whether it's odd or even?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If they're going to release the release, when are they going to release the os?
Actually it's right in line with their stated development goals, a major release every 4 years and a point release 2 years inbetween. Win7 and Windows Server 2008 R2 are the point releases so (late) 2012 for the next major release would be right on time. You'd think with $Billions in revenue per year that they could keep with their timeline.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
If they're concentrating on fixing/improving Windows 7...will they stop?
If they're not going to stop fixing/improving Windows 7, what's the difference?
Is Read this Article and take some important notes.
NOTES!
bells and whistles do not sell in the real world were work needs to be done.
People want a system/car/airplane/appliance that works, always. Not part of the time.
If you want to dick around get a Mac Book Wheel
I have brrn using XP since 2003. Before that I was using 98SE
I didn't see the need to upgrade to Vista, and I heard it sucked anyway.
I guess I should skip & then (since that would mean buying new hardware as well) and wait for Win 8
Of course if everybody does this then both MS and the PC manufacturers have a cashflow problem.
was windows 8 my idea too?
Win8's new critical stop sound:
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATES!!!!
Sorry.
Would that be the OctoOS?
Wow, the 2010 Fiscal Year is ONLY 8 months away when 2010 is only 4 weeks away? Yeah, better start planning for this massive and abrupt shift... (yeah, I know the difference between a fiscal and a calendar year).
Seriously, though. Good for them. I think XP was out way too long and while I never really had a problem with it that wouldn't be inherent in any type of Windows (I'm just old enough to have missed out on needing to learn much about DOS, and PowerShell pisses me off by not being tcsh), and I think people got complacent with it. The long run of XP probably had as much to do with Vista fears as early bugs did. I purchased a copy of Vista Ultimate a few months ago, and I had no problems with it at all, other than shitty command line, but I was never really an XP user at home anyway.
The story yesterday with regards to Win 7 stealing more XP market share than Vista market share, I think backs this up. The XP users who were still hanging on were doing so because of perceived issues with Vista, which may or may not have been valid, so Win 7 is more for them than for anyone currently using Vista by choice. Kicking up the Win 8 cycle should keep interest higher, and hopefully they'll be able to deliver on time (yeah, yeah...), because 2 years plus 8 months is still sort of slow compared to Apple's releases, and like a glacier compared to some of the major Linux distributions or BSDs which are on might tighter release schedules.
Will this be anything like the Be Focus Shift at all?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Rule 34 .... That is all
EXTRA! EXTRA! Ballmer had kippers for breakfast today.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
Isn't this late 2009? How is late 2012 four years later?
Are you doing math on a Pentium?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Which version will Windows 8 be?
Windows 7 is Windows version 6.1
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600] Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Tim S.
Will the eight be tipped on its side to make an infinity symbol?
Excellent... this will mark the third major release of Windows that I will never use. Keep 'em coming, Ballmer!
+1000000000 Super uber king kamehameha funny
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Isn't this late 2009? How is late 2012 four years later?
Are you doing math on a Pentium?
Isn't this late 2009? Are you still telling jokes about the original Pentium?
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Uh, Win7/2008 R2 is a point release, it's the same basic kernel as Vista/2008 so the next major release should be in 24-35 months from their release.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Exactly what version of what OS do you use?
Microsoft's fiscal year starts in July, which is only eight months away.
They just keep coming, faster and faster. Next next year is a mere twenty months away and we haven't even *started* next year.
Dripping with weedy urgency, like a guy six weeks into his first relationship, waking up his girlfriend at four in the morning to have sex for the againth time because "there's only another two weeks before your placebos". If she's still too love-addled not to permanently dismember the weedy bastard right then and there, she'll be going "yeah, like I know already, been there before".
Actually, it's more like a guy doing this ten years into his third marriage, who won't get snipped because he still thinks he's a stud.
Does this mean that Windows 8 is going to trigger a catastrophe that will end the world? Does Microsoft have insight into the 2012 catastrophe and are making plans for the first post-apocalyptic operating system?
(C'mon, this is not the first time Slashdot has aired conspiracy theories about Microsoft.)
64 bit. Better memory management. More feature complete GUI. Massively improved networking. Far better looking (yes, Linux devs, this matters). Hugely improved automatic update mechanism. Far better driver support out of the box, with auto-download of OEM vendor drivers.
That's just off the top of my head.
Look at the kernel changes between Server 2008 and Server 2008 R2 and tell me it is the same kernel. It is easily twice the change of 2003 to 2003 R2.
Microsoft is HORRIBLY inconsistent with their naming. Windows 7 reports it runs kernel 6.1, but the entire purpose of naming it Windows _7_ is that is the 7th major iteration of the NT kernel.
Then again, Windows 2000 through Windows Home Server all are NT 5.x kernels. You're not going to suggest that XP was merely a point release and not a major release were you?
If we just went by that naming convention, then it the NT 5.x kernel line lasted 7 years.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
"In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X."
This is /.
I'm just warming up for my Trash-80 jokes.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
That. Was. Awesome!
Bravo - you shouldn't have posted that AC.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
*skips most of the comments*
Windows 8 will be released on 21 December 2012.
(Score:-1,Redundant)
Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
Actual multiuser support with decent file protection (NTFS vs. FAT).
This is an impressively stupid comment. I mean, really impressively stupid, which is saying something on ./
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
"When people get fed up with crippled "home" versions and paying more for "ultimate" versions, Linux will surely take off."
I don't know whether to reply with a sincere criticism or a joke. So... I'll do both.
So, we'll start with the fact that the "ultimate" version is not required by, and not lusted after by, well, the vast majority of users. With Windows 7 you don't need Ultimate for much of anything. Hell, I was a Vista Ultimate x64 user and when I picked up Windows 7 I got "Professional" instead. They moved all the good stuff down a step. But here's the kicker - if you actually want the things that the Pro version requires, you aren't going to switch to linux to save a small amount of money. Especially if what you want is to do things like extend Media Centre to a compatible streaming device in the living room.
Now for the cheap shot at linux in the form of a semi-incorrect joke (only "semi" because this is a very common perception):
Being forced to pay extra to get leather seats and a great stereo isn't gonna make me run out and switch to a rickshaw.
I'm not going to lie, i love Windows.Ive bought them all so far, But Unless theres some serious new features/technology in Windows 8 it will be the first i have skipped. Its come to the point the internet is smoken fast,my computer does what i want it to do,all my programs work just fine.
Jack of all trades,master of none
We all going to be gone anyway
New Economic Perspectives
Microsoft's FY10 started last July. FY11 starts seven months from yesterday.
...they're getting back on their normal release schedule. Good for them.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
The 1980's called, they want this joke back.
The next time the 80's calls I'm just going to let it go to fucking voicemail.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Damn! I better get moving! I haven't even bought Vista yet, and then I gotta go buy Windows 7 in time to be ready for Windows 8!
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
In Soviet Russia, the Trash-80 warms your jokes up!
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
The only thing impressively stupid is your confusing a question with a comment.
Here's a comment if you want a comment.
Fifteen years, probably well over a billion dollars spent and we still have the same paradigm as Windows 95 (OS X is included in this also).
Look at cell phones...20 years ago all they could do is dial a number...contrast that with the iPhone or Android functionality...completely different paradigm.
Look at television, same thing. From 5-10 local channels to hundreds, video on demand, DVR, web surfing, HD, etc.
What advancements in computer OSs approach the breadth and width of change in these two products?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I started with a home computer in the 80s. Quite fun but cassettes were slow, so I got a PC with MS DOS 3.3
I upgraded to DOS 5 because of its memory management. I then installed Windows 3.1 upon DOS 5 because of the truetype fonts and word processing. It made me more productive.
(I also started using Linux because it allowed me to have a Unix at home without suffering that asshole sysadmin at the university, but this posting is not about Linux)
I upgraded DOS5+Win3 to Win95OSR because it was more stable and easier to use than 3.1, it had font smoothing, native TCP/IP and it was generally an OS vs DOS and a windowed shell. It made me more productive.
I skipped Win98 and WinMe because they offered nothing new.
I started using Win2000 because it was a real OS, much more stable and secure than Win95. It made me more productive.
I started using XP when nLite matured because I could remove the useless crap and XP is optimized for speed and supports network bridges and, most importantly, cleartype. It made me more productive
I've tried Vista and 7 but they have not made me more productive. I wonder if Microsoft can change that with 8.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You apparently have money to spend. The people I know who don't pay for their OS (Microsoft or not) consider $100 to be more like 10 nights out, and that doesn't balance. Fortune 500 companies typically lease hardware with provided operating systems, so the cost of the OS is almost irrelevant compared to the lease payment and support options.
I buy a computer, it has to have an operating system, then I load the applications I want to. The OS is supposed to be transparent, giving you access to the applications you use. If Apple and MS want to spend money making things flashy, that's their decision and it inflates the cost of the product. People rebel against high prices by not purchasing it - in the case of a digital product you can avoid paying instead of doing without. It's up to OS developers if they want to continue being flashy, or cut costs to reduce product costs.
I would expect the OS itself to be valued at whatever price an OEM pays for it - typically estimated at $30 according to the recent Windows EULA refund requests, but down to $6 with recent reports. The difference at that point is support - OEMs get a good deal because they support the customer directly, and escalate Microsoft issues to Microsoft. Buying direct from Microsoft means Microsoft supports as much as they can, then redirects you to the hardware support if needed. With all the available PC configurations, this can be quite complicated. Even OEM support with all of their configurations and user add-ons is hectic, I can't imagine having to support any random collection of cobbled together hardware from large and small OEMs, and homebuilt systems. But that's what they have to do, to a certain point.
What I would like to see is the actual value ($30 as previously discussed) plus support options. Bug reports are free, basic installation and how-to adds $20, bundle whatever else to reach the $100+ model. Ultimate version or whatever else should be a support pack like they used to do, a separate purchase instead of a separate SKU. That would make testing easier anyway, since yu don't have to compile and test the whole OS. Point is, I don't want to pay MS for support, only for the software. I support the OS myself other than fixing bugs, which I sometimes even do anyway. If you want additional features, pay for it. If you want support, pay for it.
Microsoft's biggest problem in this area is bundling. All features, all support, everything is included in the direct-to-consumer price. Unbundle and let people have the parts they want.
It is the middle of FY10 right now.
2000 through XP ARE the same kernel, you can load almost all 2000 drivers in XP.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
*off original topic*
The price of Office 2007 for most people actually isn't that high, but I know quite a few of non-tech people that have spent twice the amount to get a version of Office that they find easy to use and works. Office 2003.
Many of my tech friends and I just use OpenOffice. Though at work I am forced to use Office 2007. I will admit, the more I use Word 2007 and Excel 2007, the more painful it becomes and it was pretty painful to start with.
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
You count bringing an OS to a small handheld device as an improvement for the telephone market, but you don't consider it an advancement for the OS market as well?
If you cherrypick advances to point out and ignore the others, cars haven't advanced in 50 years, they are still using the internal combustion paradigm.
Not that this matters at all. Unless you are using windows 95 you are a total hypocrite.
...the EU sued them! And you cheered them on. Make up your minds people.
I will still be using XP when Windows 8 is released.
Soon we will have MSX which will be very similar to Windows XP except without the pee, and similar to OSX except its an M instead of an O.
There isn't an actual value.
There is a _price_ at which the two parties in question: buyer and seller, are willing to conduct an exchange at a given point in time.
You know how stores have sales? "15% off -- only today!" Is the product 15% less valuable today, and then tomorrow it reverts to being more "valuable"? If so, what is that value changed based on?
For all actors in the market and for all non-coercive transactions [i.e. where force or fraud are not involved], "value" is determined independantly by each party in the transaction, and what is true for both parties right now may not be true tomorrow. The product doesn't change, but the preferences and broader situation of the marketplace participants does.
Today, windows is "worth", say, $100 to me. Tomorrow, if I've lost my job, it won't be worth _anything_ to me. It's not like windows is suddenly a worse product because I've lost my job. But my framework for evaluating the "value" of things to me changes dramatically.
This isn't a new problem: it's [at first glance] wierd that Windows costs one amount in the US and a different amount in other places. Other places have a different standard of living than we do, so in such places the US based cost of a Windows license would be unthinkable.
In the US, most people have enough money that they figure the value they get from windows is worth about what they have to pay for it. Even though they pay a lot more than many other people do in other places. I think think most Americans would trade their position in the world so that they could have cheaper windows pricing, but those that would are free to do so. And in any situation, one is always free to decide windows doesn't represent a good value to them at the price Microsoft is willing to sell it for, and so no transaction has to happen.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
WoW won't run on Windows 95, you insensitive clod!
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Bringing the OS to a new device means that new device can now do something the old could never do before. That's revolutionary. Integrating a computer into the car so that a car can park itself, avoid collisions, call for help when you get into an accident, that's stuff a car could not do 20-30 years ago.
What can I do in any OS now that I couldn't do in some fashion in 1995? Sure, everything they could do in 1995, they can stupendously better now, but it's still the same thing.
And unless you are a totally fanboy of Windows you would recognize a simple question and respond with a discussion instead of calling names.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Ten years ago, I would have completely agreed with this post. Today, if anything, the Microsoft shills have taken over slashdot.
It goes like this. DOS 1 was.. well, it was version 1.0, but it was pretty good for it's time (1981.) Compare it to contemporary versions of CP/M and it was a reasonable OS. Then DOS 2 was an abomination which was promptly replaced with DOS 3. Everyone ran MS-DOS 3.3 for a LONG time--years--and DOS 4.0 was a joke. Then DOS 5 came out and was well loved, while MS-DOS 6 was yet another joke.
It gets a little harder to figure out with Windows though. Windows 95 was DOS 7, as was Windows 98. Windows ME was DOS 8.
I would argue that you can't really place NT kernels prior to XP into this scheme. So, we would then say that XP was the equivalent of DOS 9, Vista was DOS 10, and Windows 7 is DOS 11.
What about the early versions of Window? Well, since they were just "operating environments", not real manly operating systems like MS-DOS, I don't think we can really consider them. (For those grunting at me calling MS-DOS a real operating system: congratulations! You've been taken in by one of my classic pranks! Bazinga!)
The logical conclusion, of course, is that Windows 8 is going to SERIOUSLY suck. As least if you believe in the sunspot cycle and the mayan calendar, anyway.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
I for one hope that windows 8 takes awhile to get releases.around 2015 would make me happy. I mostly skipped Vista for my personal use because of the early issues, but as a tier 2-3 IS Technician for the duration of Vista I experienced enough of it. I final bought a new laptop in July (came with vista of course and has been upgraded to Windows 7 Ultimate) and I used vista until I got my 7 ultimate. vista finally matured with SP2 in to descent OS and was replaced in less than a year. I love My Windows 7 it has been super stable and fast. I was happy to make the switch form XP on all on my Machines. after investing all of this money if Windows 8 comes out in less than 5 years I wont upgrade. I want to be able to get some life out of my OS. I drive my cars till they reach 175,000 miles before I trade them in (about 7 Years) and With 8 computer in my house upgrading all of their OS's is Costly.
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who read binary and those who don't. which are you!
IMHO the "polish" gap is narrowing rapidly. I use Fedora with KDE4 for my primary personal desktop, and feel the latest release (12) was every bit as usable and "polished" as the Windows 7 beta I tested a few months back, perhaps more so in some ways. And if you factor in ease of installation and out-of-the-box utility, Fedora has beaten current versions of Windows hands-down for the last several releases. Please note: I haven't paid for a retail version of Windows in many, many moons, so I have no idea if the final version of 7 has more "polish" than the beta.
This isn't the sig you're looking for... Move along.
Maybe, just maybe, Microsoft manages to implement the feature that is in all other systems for at least 40 years: That you can delete/read/write an open file.
But I think Windows users need to wait until Windows 11 for that
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
The car analogy is that car frames have gotten lighter and stronger, but their basic idea and use is the same now as it was at the start.
The Operating system has gotten better over the years. Period. It works. It serves its function in allowing a user to utilize hardware. It has gotten better at this. No discussion.
I dont exactly know what you want here. . . a massive shift in the way computers operate every 10 years?
How is my like or dislike of windows relevant? All other oses do the same things, some marginally better or worse.
The point you just aren't getting is that The post that started this stated that software hasn't progressed since win95. It was ridiculous when he said it, and it is sad when you try to defend it.
For a lot of people Office is FREE. With the licensing program we have in place at work, each employee is allowed a copy of Office for their home computer. Not only that, Microsoft doesn't force us to monitor license compliance on copies sent home with users.
You miss the point. Every time a new version of Windows is due, Microsoft starts talking down the old version. Windows 7 is currently the best thing since sliced bread. How long will it be until it isn't good enough for us any more and we should be anxious to buy Windows 8?
Stick Men
Yeah! Everyone knows the current version is "Are you doing math in Excel?"
Ah. So if you give the product away, frequent releases make sense; but if you profit off the product, that allows us to believe that frequent releases are just a ploy to make money (even though nobody actually buys the upgrades that frequently), so you should be criticized if you release frequently (even though you probably also have the same reasons to release frequently as anyone else).
If your OS comes with close to all the applications you'll ever have on your computer then yes, very frequent updates do make sense. You end up with the same Gentoo system using a 5 year old CD as you do with the latest install CD, the only difference is that the distribution will update a whole lot more using the 5 old CD since more packages have been updated since then. The same goes for Ubuntu, install using a few years old CD and you will be downloading updates for hours and hours after installing, install with the latest CD and bang you're up to date. You end up with the same system regardless. Overall installation time becomes significantly shorter thanks to frequently updated installation mediums.
Windows if very different, installing Windows XP and running the update manager will NOT give you a system identical to Windows 7. Linux distros have package managers who actually upgrade your system, Windows update merely bugfixes it.
9/11: Never forget it was a false-flag operation
Windows NT = Genesis (or was this when Hell was created?)
Windows 2000 = Windows NT SP5
Windows XP = Windows 2000 SP5
Windows Vista = Windows XP SP4
Windows 7 = Vista SP3
Windows 8 = Windows 7 SP3
-or just-
" Microsoft X SP20.. "
Wouldn't it just be easier to just keep track of them by absolute Service Pack Number - rather then having to remember names?
Otherwise they may have problems with the Mayan calendar, as it is resetting. Hopefully they get the TZDATA correct. Unlike Ubuntu which seems to update TZDATA continually every week. Seriously does someone know WTF they doing for TZDATA, or is someone, somewhere always changing what timezone the people want to be in?
Been dualbooting for years, still running XP. I skipped Vista and sure don't regret it, but I've thought about giving 7 a shot.
Only problem is, I can't find anything about what the system requirements are. I mean, I can find the "official" Microsof requirements, but not the "real world".
So what do you /. geeks think?
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3800+
RAM: 2G
HDD0: 80GB
HDD1: ~450GB
Dual boot ubuntu 9.04 (until I find a new distro).
Mod me down if you want, but at least answer me AC, huh? :)
strange, cause Linux and BSD both run fine ... are you sure Win8 is supposed to be an improvement?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Exactly, the issue is only with floating point math.
The joke doesn't add up.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1435180&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=30021114 [slashdot.org]
Per my subject-line: Read that, & get back to us (since you are allegedly a dev mgr. @ MS)... this isn't to "antagonize you", but, rather to help you folks @ MS spot possible problems in Windows VISTA/Windows Server 2008/Windows 7 especially, due to their WFP/NDIS6 firewall design, problems in the local DNS cache client, & in HOSTS files.
Thanks for your time.
APK
P.S.=> I am not sure WHY you've avoided my points, because they are to help "make a better Windows" is all, but I assume because of your being busy. However, your business is making Windows allegedly, so why not take a peek @ something that may point to issues!
(Definite possibles per:
1.) ROOTKIT.COM's findings on unhooking the WFP/NDIS6 firewall easier than the older Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 setup apparently, WITH CODE THE SAID DOES SO NO LESS in the url pointing to it
2.) Problems in the local DNS Client cache (fails/lags for folks that use "LARGISH" HOSTS files (plenty of us, many 1000's, per Spybot S&D users + folks @ mvps.org (to only name a small few) & even folks like Mr. Oliver Day espouse the use of HOSTS files, finding they make him go faster, AND SAFER, online by far as evidence to it, as well as users who have used a security guide of mine, of which HOSTS are a major part, not seeing any malware intrusions AND GOING FASTER ONLINE TOO)
3.) MS seemingly intentionally removing the ability to use the smaller & faster 0 based blocking IP address in a HOSTS file (when it was MS who put it into Windows, from 2000 in a SERVICE PACK, not its original OEM CD release distro mind you, & leaving it there clear into VISTA, until 12/09/2008 MS patch tuesday, when it (a good thing) was removed for SOME reason (makes no sense, unless somehow the dual IPv4 + IPv6 setup in VISTA onwards facilitates the need for this, & I do NOT think it does @ this point)
AND, more...)
Again, thanks for your time, & I hope this aids MS in "making a better Windows than Windows is", per those points... apk
And then, finally... their real target! Ladies and gentlemen! Introducing Windows X!
That is all.
If your OS comes with close to all the applications you'll ever have on your computer then yes, very frequent updates do make sense.
Ha. You *want* Microsoft to bundle applications now? Boy, how soon these people change sides...
Windows if very different, installing Windows XP and running the update manager will NOT give you a system identical to Windows 7. Linux distros have package managers who actually upgrade your system, Windows update merely bugfixes it.
And? Is there a point under all that drivel? The goal of Windows is not the same as Linux. The typical users of Windows are different from typical users of Linux. Just as Linux is not Windows, it works the other way round too. Windows is a commercial product made for the explicit reason to make money, just like every other proprietary software.
Linux was made because ... hmm.. some dude got bored and wrote a toy OS. Since then because of all the volunteer dev work and influx of massive corporate cash, its changed to being a first class OS for servers, and other non-desktop uses. Although I guess users of Linux would jump to claim that its a good OS for desktops too, but the proof of that is market share. There is no point claiming to be a better product, if you've never had 500 million average users trying to run your OS user interface. Yeah there is proof of reliability through server usage, but not UI.
I know I'm going to be modded down for this, but I agree with the parent.
Can you give me karma points anyway? Then you are the WINNAR ;-)
I don't think I'm gonna make any good outcome here, but at least please try to write normally. Your posts are informative but I just cant bother reading them with text like that. Don't use capitalization or @/&/% so much but write actual words. It makes your point come across better and is nicer for the reader.
3.1 95(+3) (same os) XP Vista 7 Microsoft Windows 8 will be actually named Microsoft Windows "SALES GENERATING CATCHPHRASE"
Writing critics, lol... "oh well"! I could ask you if you are any kind of "authority" on the subject, such as possessing a PHD to your name in English, but what's the point?
See, imo @ least (based on experience & I have been writing for nearly 40++ yrs. now, probably longer than you've been alive & I am in possession of multiple collegiate degrees etc. et al as well)... so, on writing critique??
Hey - It's just like resumes: I.E./E.G.-> 1 fellow will love your work, & another may not!
(AND, sometimes, for "less than honorable reasons"/due to a 'hidden agenda', such as malware makers or botmasters might take or say on a securing Windows posting, OR, what Foredecker alludes to, in the *NIX zealots around here)
AND, yes - Foredecker's DEAD ON RIGHT about that much!
See, I speak from experience, & /.? It is the "HOME OF THE *NIX ZEALOT ONLINE" as far as I have EVER seen (& I've been 'knocking around the wire' since the mid 1980's in academia & fullbore/fulltime since 1994)...
Plus? Hey - I've hung around here since early 2005/late 2004 & will "2nd his motion" totally, as regards what I call the "Pro-*NIX crew" around here!
(The "Pro-*NIX cerw" & the "Penguin 'POD PEOPLE', who doubtless FEAR MS hugely imo & MAINLY because of the inroads its made in first toppling NOVELL @ the departmental server level, & now MS is targetting the province of *NIX & IBM midrange/mainframe OS' like zOS (formerly OS400 etc. et al)).
Microsoft & Windows have put the "fear of GOD" into that bunch & perhaps rightfully so imo!
You see - I have been hearing about "This will be the year of LINUX" etc. et al since oh, 1995 or so, & it has YET to come true. Sure, Linux has done well & @ the server level mainly (I do NOT think it will EVER take the desktop for home users or departmental workstation role away from Windows... if anything? MacOS X is the BIGGEST contender there, & is Linux' enemy imo on that front in fact... which, of course, works out well for MS, ala "divide the *NIX ranks & let them conquer EACH OTHER")... but, Linux has done pretty OK @ the midrange server level (but, a 'freebie purchase price' for the most part even in 'industrial environs' because most server admins can take care of their OWN box well enough imo w/out a support contract etc.), but Windows still kicks butt there too, not just @ the home user or departmental level (ala SQLServer &/or Exchange Server + Windows Server 2003 or 2008).
Imo? The *NIX crew are afraid for their livelyhoods imo... & rightfully so. They saw what MS did to NOVELL, & *NIX variants? Next on "MS' 'hit list'" imo... & they won't win.
Now, I am DEFINTELY a "Windows fanboy", but I like Linux (especially on KDE), & MacOS X quite a lot as well... but, I know who's winning what & where + why (argue with the #'s folks & 'good luck', you'll need it).
Still - I am TRYING to point out some definitely concretely backed facts to Foredecker, since he works for MS, but... he has not responded for around 10 or more posts now, & neither did S. Sinofsky (a BIG cheese @ MS in Windows dev in fact) on his own blogs, so... maybe you're right - nothing will come of it, but I will still try. No harm in that imo, especially because my intentions ARE good & to see MS perfect Windows in fact (then? It's onto IE & Office etc., afterwards - "make the foundation solid" first)...
APK
P.S.=> Now, some of you "Pro-*NIX" Penguin people may not like that, but... it's how I see it after 25++ total yrs. time around these machines (almost 17 profesionally in nearly EVERY role there is on the way to what I feel is the "ultimate evolution" of the computer user: Programmer/Analyst or Software Engineer (because until you're there? Well... you are "playing music via tableture" rather than reading it - can't put it ANY BETTER THAN THAT, & musically inclined folks will get that totally) & I've seen 'em come & go, sin
Isn't this late 2009? Are you still telling jokes about the original Pentium?
Of course we are! I mean, it's only been two weeFLOATING POINT EXCEPTION
Well, I skimmed the replies and found an important point missing, concerning how Windows 8 will be marketed: If Windows 8 is going to be released in 2012, that means that sometime in late 2011, Microsoft will start telling us that Windows 7 is, in fact, dog shit.
But Windows 8 will solve all those problems, and be faster and more secure!
Windows 8 Professional ZX Edition Leaked [checked by me] [h33t][migel] easily found on: http://www.kickasstorrents.com/applications/
So the fact that you're still staring at icons on a desktop tells you that not much has changed? There have been vast changes in the internals across all major operating systems in the 14 years since Windows 95 came out. Your question and followup comments strongly imply that little has changed. Your comment about OSX being in that same bucket is doubling down on your ignorance.
Better to say that the desktop metaphor has survived 20 years of constant use and evolution because it works really well.
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
The same goes for Ubuntu, install using a few years old CD and you will be downloading updates for hours and hours after installing, install with the latest CD and bang you're up to date. You end up with the same system regardless.
No, you're completely wrong about Ubuntu. As a rule, once a version is released major versions of software stay fixed and only bug fixes are applied by updates.
For example, my Ubuntu 9.04 install has had Firefox updated from 3.0.x to 3.0.y via the standard mechanism. It will never go to Firefox 3.5.x using the standard repositories and applying all updates. Simlarly Ubuntu 9.10 comes with Firefox 3.5.x and will never be upgraded to 3.6.x. via the standard updates/repositories.
I won't claim there are never going to be exceptions to this policy (e.g. major security related bug which doesn't get backported by package maintainers and is impractical for Ubuntu maintainers to backport). But generally the rule is if you want the latest versions of packages in Ubuntu you either upgrade to a new release (recommended) or add non-standard repositories (may break things).
I know what you said *does* apply to some distros. Just not Ubuntu.
> The idea that the operating system on your computer -- the thing that actually lets it do useful things -- isn't worth dinner for 2 at a national-chain resturant (your $30 figure) is completely hillarious. You honestly would rather forego the last 30 years of personal computer history and instead have 1 dinner for two?
If the other person is an actual real (breathing is a bonus) female, I would surmise that yes, most slashdotters would choose that option. On the other hand...those 30 years of computer history is the very reason they would agree to it, so...so they... but not if...only...*head assplodes*
Sigh. It's too bad too, because you sound smart. You are writing to communicate ideas to others, not to hear yourself type, right? Then take the other guy's advice: make it brief, summarize and write in normal English.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I am as smart as the next person I suppose!
I personally just don't treat this place like "English Class" or a formal business letter or legal correspondence is all - there is no "English Grammar" section on this forums, by the by, in case you havebn't noticed, so "english writing critique"?
IT is OFF TOPIC.
Within this field/art & science, there's a LOT of detail!
You miss one of those? You blow it.
(The "devils" ARE in the details in this stuff is why)
So, you can write like some "10,000 foot view above it all mgt. type", but that style does NOT 'cut it' in a technical field of endeavor & in case you guys haven't noticed? This isn't English Class, nor is it a business correspondence or our last will & testaments being written here: It's a forums, AND it's a forums on things technical in computing (not a paper for an English Class grade, nor is it a "keep it brief/give me the meat only" business correspondence or email).
APK
P.S.=> Besides this entire site lacking an "English Grammar Critique" forums section, and the fact this is NOT "English Class" (nor are we writing term papers here for it) or a formal business OR legal correspondence, I also have YET to see one of my 'detractors/naysayers' produce proof of a PHD in English to their name as well (lending them SOME kind of credibility for criticising others' writing style)... & not that THAT would matter: Writing style & "what's good"? LARGELY SUBJECTIVE - just like resumes! E.G.-> 1 guy likes your resume, & another doesn't (and that's the way it goes, & you can't please everyone because of "beauty in the eye of the beholder")... apk